Re: Question About Reply Templates
Hi Thomas, Yep, I guess in the end it all comes down to personal taste. What works for one, doesn't for another. What matters is that The Bat! is an email program with enough flexibility in it so that people can set it up the way they like it - they aren't forced into using the programmer's preferences. As for inline quoting, this list is the only place I will consider it - only then because I will be flamed into a crisp should I not do it. For mine (again just personal taste), top posting is the way to go (flame proof suit on for that sentence!). As for my messages not threading, I wouldn't be surprised. I have turned off the option for the tbudl list to send me emails. I tried out the option which only sends 1 digest per day, but even that was too much to read for me, as the list doesn't have a 'send only emails that refer to a topic you've created' option, I just have them all turned off. When I want to check replies, I use the webpage history archive. So, when I want to reply to a reply, I just create a whole new email in The Bat! with the same subject line... hope that it will attach itself to the right topic. It seems to work when viewing the webpage history archive, but as I don't get the emails, I can't see if it works the other way. Regards, Chris Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Question About Reply Templates
Hello Chris, On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 21:56:41 +1100 GMT (02/03/2004, 17:56 +0700 GMT), Chris wrote: Yep, I guess in the end it all comes down to personal taste. What works for one, doesn't for another. What matters is that The Bat! is an email program with enough flexibility in it so that people can set it up the way they like it - they aren't forced into using the programmer's preferences. Sure. TB allows for both inline quoting and top posting or whatever you like. I have seen bottom-posting... What you wish to do is possible with TB. My point is that I personally wouldn't prefer it, but you can do it if you want. As for inline quoting, this list is the only place I will consider it - only then because I will be flamed into a crisp should I not do it. I haven't seen a flame war on this list for ages. For mine (again just personal taste), top posting is the way to go (flame proof suit on for that sentence!). No suit necessary. Top posting has its place, I use it in the office. Not on mailing lists, though. As for my messages not threading, I wouldn't be surprised. I have turned off the option for the tbudl list to send me emails. [...] I see. -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings to be seriously considered as a means of communication. The device is inherently of no value to us. -- Western Union internal memo, 1876. Message reply created with The Bat! 2.04.7 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using a Pentium P4 1.7 GHz, 256MB RAM Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Question About Reply Templates
Hi Thomas, This does all I want it too, except for the adding of multiple '' characters on replies. I'm not sure if the '' characters in the template above have anything to do with this or not Yes, it does. You are telling TB to add the character. I've removed the '' from the template, will try it out to see how it goes. - if The Bat! automatically adds these onto replies anyway, but I also have them listed in the template, does this mean that it will add '' onto ''? Yes. Makes sense :-) I see that Outlook at work does not add multiple '' - it only ever adds the one. I think it is a major shortcoming of Outlook, and I find myself adding the missing characters in replies. No, excuse me, I think this shortcoming occurs with the AOL mail software, not Outlook. I personally hate multiple '' with a passion - I think it looks so untidy makes reading the email harder (due to multiple '' indenting the older text to the right - I much prefer all text to be straight down the left hand margin of the page so you don't have to go searching to see where each sentence starts). With one '' character, you know it will start on the very left hand side...if there are multiple '', I know from experience that sometimes sentences can start off the right hand side of the page because there are so many '' before them - this is just ridiculous in my opinion. I suspect this may be a setting within the program itself - it's a pity The Bat! has no similar option. Why would you want to ignore (falsify?) quoting levels? See above. I wasn't even aware that there was a 'quoting level' - that's how much I ignore anything over one ''. For mine, there is either quoted text, or current text - I don't care how many times the quoted has been replied to. I have noticed (by looking at the Preferences in The Bat!), that the colour of the text that has multiple '' before it is called 'Quotation (Even)' the text with only one '' before it is called 'Quotation (Odd)'. Can anyone explain the difference between this 'odd' 'even'? Odd numbers are 1,3,5,.. and even numbers are 2,4,6,.. The colours alternate rather than displaying the same colour for all quoting levels. I was very happy when this was introduced, but if you don't like it, you get change both odd and even to the same colour. This is something I don't have a particular preference for - I may just change it to the same colour to see how it goes. Just for simplicity - 2 colours in an email: the replied text, the current text. I just want to add the main reason why I want this Outlook like template - most of the emails I send are to tech support. When doing this, it is vital to have all the history of the email included in replies. Yes, but this is what top-posting is for, and IMHO has nothing to do with ignoring quoting levels. I find the Outlook like template very easy to understand, with all the information laid out in a nice, neat, logical way. The default The Bat! template for me makes a dog's breakfast of this task. For personal emails, where the history of the email, addressee's etc aren't so important, the difference is much less, but still slightly in Outlook's favour for mine. Also, what I particularly hated about the default The Bat! reply templates was that nowhere in the text of the message itself does it list the email address a reply was sent to. You mention the default templates, and I think the default is right. Usually a communication in tech support is back and forth between the same two addresses. However, I believe you are aware that you can include an %OFrom macro into your reply template at a convenient location. Ah, I wasn't aware of this. I've never been very good on any form of macro, so it's not a surprise I didn't know about it. Even the template language in The Bat! I struggle with (which is why I had to ask on this forum - I couldn't understand the help file topics on it). Still, the problem I found was that even when an email was only between 2 email addresses, than later on, if you went back read through the text of the email, nowhere was the exact [EMAIL PROTECTED] email address listed...so if you didn't make a note of what that address was, you can't resend an email to it. Particularly annoying for outfits that only allow you to contact their support via a web form...once you get the email address for one of these places, you treat it like gold! ;-) Chris Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Question About Reply Templates
Hello Chris, On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 00:44:45 +1100 GMT (01/03/2004, 20:44 +0700 GMT), Chris wrote: I think it is a major shortcoming of Outlook, and I find myself adding the missing characters in replies. No, excuse me, I think this shortcoming occurs with the AOL mail software, not Outlook. I personally hate multiple '' with a passion - I think it looks so untidy makes reading the email harder (due to multiple '' indenting the older text to the right - I much prefer all text to be straight down the left hand margin of the page so you don't have to go searching to see where each sentence starts). I disagree, and I left part of the message you replied to make my point. But then, it may be a matter of taste. Why would you want to ignore (falsify?) quoting levels? See above. I wasn't even aware that there was a 'quoting level' - that's how much I ignore anything over one ''. For mine, there is either quoted text, or current text - I don't care how many times the quoted has been replied to. I do. I like to be able to tell apart my original sentence and your reply. If all is on one quoting level, confusion sets in quickly. Odd numbers are 1,3,5,.. and even numbers are 2,4,6,.. The colours alternate rather than displaying the same colour for all quoting levels. I was very happy when this was introduced, but if you don't like it, you get change both odd and even to the same colour. This is something I don't have a particular preference for - I may just change it to the same colour to see how it goes. Just for simplicity - 2 colours in an email: the replied text, the current text. If that works for you, no problem. But I do wonder, if the quoted passages are all in the same colour and with only one '', how do you know who said what? Maybe I am too easy to confuse. Yes, but this is what top-posting is for, and IMHO has nothing to do with ignoring quoting levels. I find the Outlook like template very easy to understand, with all the information laid out in a nice, neat, logical way. The default The Bat! template for me makes a dog's breakfast of this task. Not here, to the contrary. Our needs and tastes differ. For personal emails, where the history of the email, addressee's etc aren't so important, the difference is much less, but still slightly in Outlook's favour for mine. If you use inline quoting (like here), how do you insert the email addresses? What you say makes sense for top posting only. But there it does make sense. Still, the problem I found was that even when an email was only between 2 email addresses, than later on, if you went back read through the text of the email, nowhere was the exact [EMAIL PROTECTED] email address listed...so if you didn't make a note of what that address was, you can't resend an email to it. You are talking about an exchange between 2 email addresses. So the other address is either in the From or the To header. BTW your messages don't thread... -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. Man: Your place or mine? Woman: Both. You go to yours, and I'll go to mine. Message reply created with The Bat! 2.04.7 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using a Pentium P4 1.7 GHz, 256MB RAM Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Question About Reply Templates
Thanks for the replies everyone. By collating the various responses ( adding two minor changes of my own), I came up with this template: %Cursor %FromFName %cookie -Original Message- From:%OFROMNAME %OFROMADDR Sent:%ODATE %OTIMELONG To: %OTOLIST Cc: %OCCLIST Subject: %OSUBJECT %QUOTES=%TEXT This does all I want it too, except for the adding of multiple '' characters on replies. I'm not sure if the '' characters in the template above have anything to do with this or not - if The Bat! automatically adds these onto replies anyway, but I also have them listed in the template, does this mean that it will add '' onto ''? I see that Outlook at work does not add multiple '' - it only ever adds the one. I suspect this may be a setting within the program itself - it's a pity The Bat! has no similar option. I have noticed (by looking at the Preferences in The Bat!), that the colour of the text that has multiple '' before it is called 'Quotation (Even)' the text with only one '' before it is called 'Quotation (Odd)'. Can anyone explain the difference between this 'odd' 'even'? I just want to add the main reason why I want this Outlook like template - most of the emails I send are to tech support. When doing this, it is vital to have all the history of the email included in replies. Also, what I particularly hated about the default The Bat! reply templates was that nowhere in the text of the message itself does it list the email address a reply was sent to. If you reply to messages to all sundry email addresses like I do, then this is a big problem - in the future, you never know to what email you sent the original messages. Chris Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Question About Reply Templates
Hello Chris, On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 19:21:19 +1100 GMT (29/02/2004, 15:21 +0700 GMT), Chris wrote: This does all I want it too, except for the adding of multiple '' characters on replies. I'm not sure if the '' characters in the template above have anything to do with this or not Yes, it does. You are telling TB to add the character. - if The Bat! automatically adds these onto replies anyway, but I also have them listed in the template, does this mean that it will add '' onto ''? Yes. I see that Outlook at work does not add multiple '' - it only ever adds the one. I think it is a major shortcoming of Outlook, and I find myself adding the missing characters in replies. No, excuse me, I think this shortcoming occurs with the AOL mail software, not Outlook. I suspect this may be a setting within the program itself - it's a pity The Bat! has no similar option. Why would you want to ignore (falsify?) quoting levels? I have noticed (by looking at the Preferences in The Bat!), that the colour of the text that has multiple '' before it is called 'Quotation (Even)' the text with only one '' before it is called 'Quotation (Odd)'. Can anyone explain the difference between this 'odd' 'even'? Odd numbers are 1,3,5,.. and even numbers are 2,4,6,.. The colours alternate rather than displaying the same colour for all quoting levels. I was very happy when this was introduced, but if you don't like it, you get change both odd and even to the same colour. I just want to add the main reason why I want this Outlook like template - most of the emails I send are to tech support. When doing this, it is vital to have all the history of the email included in replies. Yes, but this is what top-posting is for, and IMHO has nothing to do with ignoring quoting levels. Also, what I particularly hated about the default The Bat! reply templates was that nowhere in the text of the message itself does it list the email address a reply was sent to. You mention the default templates, and I think the default is right. Usually a communication in tech support is back and forth between the same two addresses. However, I believe you are aware that you can include an %OFrom macro into your reply template at a convenient location. -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. Woran erkennen Sie, das Sie als Bedienung nichts taugen? Sie halten Caipirinha fur einen fleischfressenden Fisch. Message reply created with The Bat! 2.04.7 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using a Pentium P4 1.7 GHz, 256MB RAM Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Question About Reply Templates
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello Marck, On Saturday, February 28, 2004, 4:33:13 AM, you wrote: M Dear Chris, M @28-Feb-2004, 14:21 +1100 (28-Feb 03:21 UK time) Chris [C] in M mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to tbudl: C have all text quoted like with %TEXT, but on the other have it C all a different colour like in %QUOTES? M Yes. Use %QUOTES=%TEXT Will this not enter the in front of it? I think Chris does not want that. Could you not use Quotes and adjust the quoting style with a macro QUOTESTYLE (I do not know which expression will be the right one) - -- Cheers, Edgar Communicating with TB! v2.04.4, Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 1 Cannot open file D:\Quotes\files\coockie.txt To request my public key select this url: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (MingW32) - WinPT 0.7.96rc1 Comment: A signature is like a handshake. iD8DBQFAQHGnmhRF8KnkII4RAluSAJ9iaBKl8v3kyfjpI80FgARE7nO6RgCfdQiX DSDKNxacrXhSjNc91TMsA1g= =7Rpd -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Question About Reply Templates
Dear Edgar, @28-Feb-2004, 11:47 +0100 (28-Feb 10:47 UK time) Edgar van Dijk [EVD] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to Marck: C have all text quoted like with %TEXT, but on the other have it C all a different colour like in %QUOTES? M Yes. Use %QUOTES=%TEXT EVD Will this not enter the in front of it? Yes. EVD I think Chris does not want that. Not so. What Chris didn't want was the signatures cut off as happens with %QUOTES on its own. He was using %TEXT to work around that. EVD Could you not use Quotes and adjust the quoting style with a EVD macro QUOTESTYLE (I do not know which expression will be the EVD right one) That won't help. It just determines what goes in front of the '' character. There are complex macros that can be used to replace the prefix with something else entirely but that gets very messy when cascading replies. -- Cheers -- .\\arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator TB! v2.04.7 on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 1 ' pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Question About Reply Templates
Thanks for the replies guys. I'm using Mark's one at the moment for testing - to see if it does what I want. I was wondering if it could be refined: 1. To make the previously replied to text only have one '' character before it - after a few replies backwards forwards, the text down at the bottom of the email has 3 or 4 of the '' characters before it - I assume because one '' is added everythime you or the recipient hits the reply button. 2. I did change the %QUOTES to %TEXT - I prefer the %TEXT because if you just use the %QUOTES, text after a sig delimiter (for anyone who uses one replies to one of your emails) gets cut off. When I reply to an email, I want the whole history displayed - every single little bit of text, every punctuation mark, nothing left out. The problem I found when I changed to %TEXT was that some of the text that you are replying to remains coloured black - whereas if you use the %QUOTES, all the replied to text is in a different colour to the one that you use. Is there any way to strike a balance between the two - on the one hand, have all text quoted like with %TEXT, but on the other have it all a different colour like in %QUOTES? Essentially what I am trying to do here is to make The Bat! behave like Microsoft Outlook - the email program that every place I have ever worked has used. Using it 8 hours a day for some years makes you expect things to be a certain way (even though the email program you use at home - The Bat! in my case obviously - is far superior). This replying business is one of them. I got the text that I wanted in my replies from an Outlook email thread, now with the last 2 points above, I'm trying to make it exactly the same. Any help would be appreciated! Thanks, Chris Avoid parking tickets by leaving your windshield wipers turned to fast wipe whenever you leave your car parked illegally. Current version is 2.04.07 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Question About Reply Templates
Dear Chris, @28-Feb-2004, 14:21 +1100 (28-Feb 03:21 UK time) Chris [C] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to tbudl: C have all text quoted like with %TEXT, but on the other have it C all a different colour like in %QUOTES? Yes. Use %QUOTES=%TEXT C Essentially what I am trying to do here is to make The Bat! C behave like Microsoft Outlook - That's such a darned shame :-(. You might use this opportunity to grow out of it. Instigate a dual set of replies, one of which is an M$ homage and the other a more advanced and forward looking homage to etiquette, sense and aesthetics. You can specify the templates within address book groups and segregate your addresses by reply style within those groups. Just don't use the M$ reply template here. Oh yes, and add a cut mark for your advanced reply templates. Like I said in my original reply, text beneath a cut mark gets cut because it's supposed to. Nothing after a signature should be carried forward. The only bits of an original message that should normally appear in a reply are the bits you're actually commenting on. Imagine a conversation where every new response included every single thing everyone has said so far in that conversation. It stops working very soon. I'm not saying don't use top-post formatting for your replies at all. I'm saying start thinking about using them less often and introducing conversational reply styles to your repertoire of communications skills. Once you get into it, you'll appreciate the clarity and simplicity it embodies. -- Cheers -- .\\arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator TB! v2.04.7 on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 1 ' pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.04.07 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Question About Reply Templates
Chris, [C] wrote: C 1. To make the previously replied to text only have one '' C character before it - after a few replies backwards forwards, the C text down at the bottom of the email has 3 or 4 of the '' C characters before it - I assume because one '' is added everythime C you or the recipient hits the reply button. Yes. This is standard behaviour that can't be changed once you're quoting when replying using %Quotes. C The problem I found when I changed to %TEXT was that some of the C text that you are replying to remains coloured black - whereas if C you use the %QUOTES, all the replied to text is in a different C colour to the one that you use. Is there any way to strike a C balance between the two - on the one hand, have all text quoted C like with %TEXT, but on the other have it all a different colour C like in %QUOTES? This colour coding is intrinsic to TB!. It's not sent with the messages. I'm not sure if the reason you wish to see the difference in how colouring is done, is for what you or what your recipient is to see. -- -= allie_M =- | List Moderator PGPKeys: http://key.ac-martin.com Using SB! Lite v2.04.5 on WinXP Pro (SP1) pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Question About Reply Templates
Hello Chris, Thursday, February 26, 2004, 7:36:09 PM, Chris wrote: C I was wanting to change it so that on a message that I reply to, it C will have the following: Close but not exact. You can tweak it. Begins Here Hello %OFromFName, %ODateEn, %OTimeLongEn, %OFROMNAME wrote: %Quotes %Cursor -- Sincerely, Your Name ===8==Begin Original Message=== From: %OFROMNAME %OFROMADDR To: %OTOLIST CC: %OCCLIST Date: %ODateEn %OTimeLongEn Subject: %OSUBJ %OTEXT ===8==End Original Message= Ends Here -- Best Regards, Greg Strong Using The Bat! v2.04.7 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 2.04.07 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Question About Reply Templates
Dear Chris, @27-Feb-2004, 12:36 +1100 (27-Feb 01:36 UK time) Chris [C] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to tbudl: C Can someone please tell me if this is possible to do, if so, C what syntax I use? My revulsion led me to only give you a half-finished version. Here's the real deal: ~~~ %Cursor %FromFName %cookie -Original Message- From:%OFROMNAME %OFROMADDR Sent:%ODATE To: %OTOLIST Subject: %OSUBJECT %QUOTES ~~~ This template doesn't provide a cut mark, which should be used to sever a signature following a message. Of course, this also means cutting any references to the original material being discussed in a reply chain, so a top post template shouldn't include a cut mark. Of course, cut marks should always be used. A dichotomy, no? Ergo, top posting is inherently incorrect. QED. (scnr). I certainly do use top posting in my private technical mail, but never for conversation nor for list traffic. -- Cheers -- .\\arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator TB! v2.04.7 on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 1 ' pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.04.07 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
