Re: Submission Forms?

[MFPA]

Hi

On Saturday 4 June 2005 at 10:46:18 PM, in
, Stefan Tanurkov
wrote:

> Hello MFPA,

>> The theory is clear but how do you actually add/use a submission
>> forms template?

> The forms in version 3.5 were significantly changed.

Doesn't worry me as I still use v3.0.1.33.

> The new forms work only with certificates (yet - PGP will be
> supported in the next release) and they are in HTML format now.

> To create a new form:

> 1. Prepare HTML form in any HTML editor capable to create/edit forms.

Do you mean an external application or the HTML editor in TB!?

> 2. Use the Options|Submission Forms menu command

Here, this menu item is greyed out.

[...]

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MFPA

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Re: Submission Forms?

[MFPA]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

Hi

On Friday 3 June 2005 at 6:14:33 PM, in
, Vili wrote:

M>> I had not previously noticed that entry in the Options menu. How
M>> do you activate it? (It is greyed out at the moment.)

> I dont know... It was always active for me. I am using v3.0.1.33 now.
> But I dont think, that it should not work in v3.5.

I'm using 3.0.1.33 too.

> Hmm... Second thought. Maybe it is inactive out as you dont have a
> PGP key in your PGP depot. PGP is needed for Submission forms.

> So, make a PGP key and come back with the result!

I already have keys and use pgp on a regular basis.

I understand the template is a text file with a .tbc extension.
Where are these stored? Perhaps I need to put one in the right
place.

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MFPA

Life is far too important a thing ever to talk seriously about

Using The Bat! v3.0.1.33 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1

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Re: Submission Forms?

[MFPA]

Hi

On Friday 3 June 2005 at 12:43:23 PM, in
, Vili wrote:

>>> There is more than enough info about them in the help, with examples.
>>> I have made the Hungarian translation of that, so even I understood it
>>> :)
M>> The theory is clear but how do you actually add/use a submission
M>> forms template?

> By hand. So you write it in the editor, digitally signed it and that is
> all. After that: Options, Submission forms.

I had not previously noticed that entry in the Options menu. How
do you activate it? (It is greyed out at the moment.)

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MFPA

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Using The Bat! v3.0.1.33 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1



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Re: Submission Forms?

[MFPA]

Hi

On Sunday 5 June 2005 at 12:08:33 AM, in
, Vili wrote:

> There is more than enough info about them in the help, with examples.
> I have made the Hungarian translation of that, so even I understood it
> :)

The theory is clear but how do you actually add/use a submission
forms template?

-- 
Best regards,
 
MFPA

Teamwork is essential -- it allows you to blame someone else

Using The Bat! v3.0.1.33 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1



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Re: Submission Forms?

[MFPA]

Hi

On Friday 3 June 2005 at 12:15:29 PM, in
, Barry wrote:

> I've been using V3.5 for a while now and I've found the option for
> "Submission Forms"

They are not new. Mentioned in the help file for v3.0.1.33 and I'm
sure I read it in v2 when I first installed TB!

> What are these?

Help file (v3.0.1.33) begins:-

"Submission forms are a tool for creating queries
that are automatically processed. A query is actually a message
with strictly defined fields and string variables.

The queries come from a user equipped with The Bat! software with
form templates (files with a TBC-extension). Such a user is
referred to as the client. Before submitting a query, The Bat!
asks the user to fill out a form, which looks very much like forms
that you have probably filled out on the Web."

[...]

The bit that really confuses me is "Upon reception of a template
file and verification of the digital signature, the client adds it
to the list of template forms."

There is no hint as to where this list resides or how to add to
(or create?) it.


-- 
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MFPA

I think not, said Descartes, and promptly disappeared

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Re: Submission Forms?

[MAU]

Hello Barry,

> Seem interesting, but I can't find anything in the help file about them.

Yes, there is some info in Help. I don't know if enough, but there is
some, even about Form templates. Just search Help for 'forms'.

-- 
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Re: Submission forms

[Leif Gregory]

Hello Marek,

Tuesday, January 11, 2005, 7:25:41 AM, you wrote:
M> I am using it for registering The Bat! licences and in past, I had
M> some forms for secure communication with a friends. Actualy, I am
M> using SF for registrations only.

Would you be willing to share some code on that?


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Re: Submission forms

[Mary Bull]

Hello Marek!

On Tuesday, January 11, 2005, 8:25 AM, you wrote:

> I am using it for registering The Bat! licences and in past, I had
> some forms for secure communication with a friends. Actualy, I am
> using SF for registrations only.

I see. Thanks for your prompt answer. :)

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Re: Submission forms

[Marek Mikus]

Hello all,
Tuesday, January 11, 2005, Mary Bull wrote:

> Has anyone here ever used Submission Forms as supplied by The Bat!?

yes.

> They are described in Main Window/Help/Index/Submission Forms. I would
> be interested to know whether anyone has ever used this feature.

I am using it for registering The Bat! licences and in past, I had
some forms for secure communication with a friends. Actualy, I am
using SF for registrations only.

-- 

Bye

Marek Mikus
Czech support of The Bat!
http://www.thebat.cz

Using the best The Bat! 3.0.2.10
under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1
Notebook Acer, Pentium4-M 2.2 GHz, 512 MB RAM, ADSL line

 



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Re: submission forms

[Marck D Pearlstone]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi andrew,

On 02 June 2001 at  17:17:19 +0100 (which was 17:17 where I live)
andrew wrote to thebat and made these points:

a> I was interested in submission forms which the bat handles. The
a> blurb says that this feature is designed for forms that are of
a> standard format. (And between Bat client and Bat client) But does
a> this mean they could work with forms from a website?

No, it doesn't. The "Standard format" means that they appear as a
standard dialog box/form. They only work between a server TB and a
client TB. I haven't used them myself.

- --
Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user
 ~~~
\ BrainStorm - free thinking - www: http://www.brainstormsw.com /
 \ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0  |  www: http://www.silverstones.com /

SB! v1.53/iKey1000( 55238-48F0B) on Windows NT 5.0.2195 Service Pack 1
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (MingW32)
Comment: GPG Sealed for freshness

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UAZUxJpY7DmRh4rooMN6nvQ=
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Re: submission forms

[andrew]

Hi andrew,

before i look stupid ;-) I know they're designed to work with a bat
client rather than web pages. But I just though as they say they can
work with stadard form formats they might work with html forms.

Andrew  ;-)

Friday, June 01, 2001, 12:31:47 PM, you wrote:

a> Hi I'm new to the group ;-)

a> I was interested in submission forms which the bat handles. The blurb
a> says that this feature is designed for forms that are of stanard
a> format. Does this mean they could work with forms from a website? Has
a> anyone achieved this?

a> Andrew






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Re: Submission forms

[Leif Gregory]

Hello Jast, 

On Wed, 26 Jan 2000 at 06:12:09 [GMT +0100], you wrote:
J>  Thanks, but...

J> I imported the PGP-key and added the forms. Now this may sound
J> stupid, but I still have no idea how to use them. I see them in the
J> submission forms menu window, but all I can do with them is delete
J> them from there again... Am I doing something wrong?

Click on Message from the TB toolbar, and select a form under "Submit
a Form" slide box.



Leif Gregory 

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Re: Submission forms

[Jast]

Morning Max Masyutin,

>Examples are attached. Hope you find them useful. But, before
>installing them, import office.txt PGPkey.

 Thanks, but...

 I imported the PGP-key and added the forms. Now this may sound stupid, but
 I  still  have no idea how to use them. I see them in the submission forms
 menu window, but all I can do with them is delete them from there again...
 Am I doing something wrong?


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Re: Submission forms

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 26 Jan 00, at 6:14, Leif Gregory wrote
about "Re: Submission forms":

> Ahhh, this does indeed look like the problem. I can't seem to figure
> out how to use my existing keyring with the TB internal version, so
> until I can do that, I'll have to wait to test the submission forms.

You can't. Internal PGP works with RSA keys *only*, whereas your existing 
keyring is probably mainly DH/DSS...

-- 
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(St.Petersburg, Russia)
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--- 
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--- 
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fingerprints:
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A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
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Re: Submission forms

[Leif Gregory]

Hello Max, 

On Tue, 25 Jan 2000 at 23:07:09 [GMT +0200], you wrote:
MM> Oh, sorry for my previous message... Sure, I do have the idea! As
MM> said, submission forms work with internal PGP implementation only!
MM> Select "Tools/Pgp/Choose Version"..

Ahhh, this does indeed look like the problem. I can't seem to figure
out how to use my existing keyring with the TB internal version, so
until I can do that, I'll have to wait to test the submission forms.


Leif Gregory 

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Re: Submission forms

[Andrew K. Lovetski]

Hello, The Bat Users!

MM>> Submission forms require internal PGP implementation, but you
MM>> need not any additional dlls - everything is inside thebat.exe

MM>> Examples are attached. Hope you find them useful. But, before
MM>> installing them, import office.txt PGPkey.

LG> Hmmm, I must be doing something wrong. I imported your PGP keys and
LG> signed them, but whenever I try to add the forms, I get an invalid
LG> signature.

LG> Any ideas?

LG> I have the international PGP v5.5 installed and the Thebat pgp dll as
LG> well.

Max wrote above that you should use The Bat internal implementation of
PGP. So Go to Tools|PGP|Choose version, select internal
implementation, then setup it as required (I'm sorry, I never used
PGP, so I don't know exactly what you have to do), then play with
forms...

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Re: Submission forms

[Leif Gregory]

Hello Max, 

On Tue, 25 Jan 2000 at 13:44:28 [GMT +0200], you wrote:
MM> Submission forms require internal PGP implementation, but you need
MM> not any additional dlls - everything is inside thebat.exe

MM> Examples are attached. Hope you find them useful. But, before
MM> installing them, import office.txt PGPkey.

Hmmm, I must be doing something wrong. I imported your PGP keys and
signed them, but whenever I try to add the forms, I get an invalid
signature.

Any ideas?

I have the international PGP v5.5 installed and the Thebat pgp dll as
well.




Leif Gregory 

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Re: Submission forms

[Max Masyutin]

Hello Jast!

J>  So  now  my question: Does anybody here use the submission forms, or can give
J>  me  some  examples for the effective use of these? I'm a little lost on where
J>  to start with this...

   Submission forms require internal PGP implementation, but you need
   not any additional dlls - everything is inside thebat.exe

   Examples are attached. Hope you find them useful. But, before
   installing them, import office.txt PGPkey.



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 tbc.zip

Re: Submission forms

[Leif Gregory]

Hello Jast, 

On Mon, 24 Jan 2000 at 16:49:22 [GMT +0100], you wrote:
J> I'm not sure if I understood you: You need both the internal as
J> well as an additional external PGP installed? I did understand they
J> need singing from the help, but not quite sure why you would need
J> another PGP.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that
the batpgpxxx.dll only provides a means for getting PGP functionality
under TB. It isn't the full blown PGP, so you must have a version of
PGP actually installed in addition to having the .dll in the TB
folder.


J>  I saw, it just would have no practical function, I fear.

To some people maybe, for me it could be useful in that I am an
American living overseas in Japan, so having a current exchange rate
could be useful. Although, truth be told, I would really just switch
on the TV to get it. 


J> That poses the question: How would I find out if they support the
J> forms, that is, ensuring they know what I mean when I ask them
J> about it? 

I sort of answered this in another message, but let's use the exchange
rate request form in the TB help file for example.

Let's say bank A has the necessary filters/scripts/database/parser
necessary to extract the information needed from your form message to
actually give you a meaningful reply, but bank B does not have this
automation. In this case, bank A would be pretty much fully automated,
and if they have a persistent connection to the Internet, you would
get a response back in very short order. With bank B however, you
would have to wait for a human to intervene to get the information
back to you.

I just reread your question, and realized that I didn't really answer
your question. I would suggest that you contact whoever it is that you
wish to use form messages with and ask if they have any autoresponders
set up to provide the information you need based on keywords in your
e-mail. If so, then it is a simple matter of having a form that
formats the message in a way that their autoresponders can understand.

I don't know how widespread the "form" usage is, nor how supported it
is. I've never really run across any place that said they do it this
way. Then again, I never looked either.



Leif Gregory 

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Re: Submission forms

[Leif Gregory]

Hello Thomas, 

On Mon, 24 Jan 2000 at 11:51:22 [GMT +0800], you wrote:
TF> If this purpose for submission forms is incorrect, I haven't
TF> understood what they are for. In some cases (banking), a signature
TF> would be required, in other cases (bug report), not.

You pretty much got it. I agree that in certain situations, a signed
"form" is not needed, which would be a great boon to me as I could
create forms for the FAQ, shortcuts, wishlist etc.

TF> What do you mean by "the server must have support for these
TF> facilities"?

By support, I mean that if the server (the recipient of your form)
doesn't have filters/database/autoresponder etc. Then they won't do
anything for you (unless some human intervenes.) You are correct in
that the form we see is just a formatting tool for a cleartext
message. The recipient must have a means for extracting the
information from the message to perform some function and return a
result.



Leif Gregory 

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Re: Submission forms

[Jast]

Morning Leif Gregory,

 thanks for your comments.

> When they first showed up a while back, there were all sorts of people
> trying to get these working. The first problem that was encountered
> was that you had to have the internal (batpgpxx.dll) as well as PGP
> installed. This has to do with the fact that the submission forms
> require signing.

 I'm  not  sure  if I understood you: You need both the internal as well as an
 additional  external  PGP  installed? I did understand they need singing from
 the help, but not quite sure why you would need another PGP.

> I'm pretty sure that this is still the case, and in the help file
> there is an example submission form which you can cut and paste to a
> file.

 I saw, it just would have no practical function, I fear.

> I can come up with a few good uses for submission forms for things
> like:

> However, for these to work, the server (the place you are requesting
> the above from) must have the support for these facilities.

 That poses the question: How would I find out if they support the forms, that
 is, ensuring they know what I mean when I ask them about it? 

-- 
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Re: Submission forms

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hi Leif,

On Mon, 24 Jan 2000 07:25:06 +0900GMT (24/01/2000, 06:25 +0800GMT),
Leif Gregory wrote:

LG> We (the moderators) had even considered doing submission forms as a
LG> form of feedback to TBUDL/TBBETA for submissions to the wish list,
LG> FAQ, and shortcuts list. However, we didn't want to require everyone
LG> to have to install PGP just for that purpose.

LG> If we could get around that to where submission forms could be created
LG> that didn't require signing, then I'd implement them in a heartbeat.
LG> They appear to be fairly straightforward in their implementation.

Make it a checkbox: signature required y/n. ;-)

LG> However, for these to work, the server (the place you are requesting
LG> the above from) must have the support for these facilities.

What is the philosophy behind these submission forms? Example bug
report. The way I understand it, it is an e-form, which you fill in,
and it contains all the data required. The form is submitted to you
somehow, in case of the bug report supplied with the programme.

Once you send it to the recipient (which will be the creator of the
e-form), he can read everything and it is up to him whether certain
filled-in details should go into some databases, or whatever he wants
to do with it.

If this purpose for submission forms is incorrect, I haven't
understood what they are for. In some cases (banking), a signature
would be required, in other cases (bug report), not.

What do you mean by "the server must have support for these
facilities"?

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.  

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.39
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998  
on a Pentium II/350 MHz.



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Re: Submission forms

[Leif Gregory]

Hello Jast, 

On Sun, 23 Jan 2000 at 17:41:23 [GMT +0100], you wrote:
J> So now my question: Does anybody here use the submission forms, or
J> can give me some examples for the effective use of these? I'm a
J> little lost on where to start with this...

When they first showed up a while back, there were all sorts of people
trying to get these working. The first problem that was encountered
was that you had to have the internal (batpgpxx.dll) as well as PGP
installed. This has to do with the fact that the submission forms
require signing.

I'm pretty sure that this is still the case, and in the help file
there is an example submission form which you can cut and paste to a
file.

We (the moderators) had even considered doing submission forms as a
form of feedback to TBUDL/TBBETA for submissions to the wish list,
FAQ, and shortcuts list. However, we didn't want to require everyone
to have to install PGP just for that purpose.

If we could get around that to where submission forms could be created
that didn't require signing, then I'd implement them in a heartbeat.
They appear to be fairly straightforward in their implementation.

I can come up with a few good uses for submission forms for things
like:

- Retrieving current banking statements
- Trouble tickets for tech support
- Member price list requests (for e-commerce that maintains a public
  price list and a member one.)
- Intranet information requests.
- etc...

However, for these to work, the server (the place you are requesting
the above from) must have the support for these facilities.



Leif Gregory 

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