Re[2]: Versions Coming Fast & Furious

[Yuki Taga]

Wednesday, May 09, 2001, 4:11:45 AM, Nick wrote:

NA> Yuki, we are not talking about the FTP site... on that issue I agree with
NA> you... but TB! 1.52f is what is on the main Web page for people who want
NA> to either try or purchase the Program. Yesterday, throughout the day the
NA> version numbers on the Web page were changing just as fast as they were on
NA> the FTP site.

Didn't realize that.  IMHO, a minor version number with a letter suffix is
hardly a confidence builder for new users.  (at least not for new users who
have a clue about software, anyway)  Perhaps RIT ought to release fewer
versions publicly, and perhaps they ought to renumber any released version
to end with at least a .5 if not a .0.  Or, as a last resort, they could
simply tell everyone that they are beta testers.  

Best,

Yuki

mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re[2]: Versions Coming Fast & Furious

[Yuki Taga]

Tuesday, May 08, 2001, 10:20:33 PM, Thomas wrote:

T> Hello Yuki,

T> On Tue, 8 May 2001 21:27:23 +0900 GMT (08/05/2001, 20:27 +0800 GMT),
T> Yuki Taga wrote:

YT>> From 1.51 to 1.52 is a **minor** version change.

T> I think the Connection Center is a major change.

If so, then it should have an appropriate version number.  The 1.52
indicates a tweak, nothing else.  So perhaps the error is in the version
number selected by RIT.

YT>> For most users, there is simply no justification in downloading it
YT>> and installing it -- unless you want to be constantly on the
YT>> buggy, cutting edge of development.

T> This is generally true. But how about new users who download for the
T> first time from the official page and get a buggy "new features"
T> version?

RIT should be *especially* careful about this, as new users won't stay
users if their first impressions are buggy.  There should be a known-good
version that is easily accessible, and the rest should mostly be kept out
of the hands of the great unwashed.  

T> Shouldn't all 1.52 a...f...z versions be on the beta page only for
T> now?

YT>> Software construction is a trial and error process.

T> If that were true, software engineering would be in deep trouble. No,
T> it is not trial and error. An engineering-style approach to software
T> development prevents this.

As a programmer, I can tell you it is indeed a trial and error process.
Yes, there is an engineering style approach, but this is not bricks and
mortar; this is software.  No engineering style approach can eliminate
bugs. The thousands and thousands of version numbers for almost every
existent program are a testament to this.  Huge numbers of these revisions
are simply to eliminate bugs, rather than to add enhancements.

YT>> From 1.51 to 1.52 is not going to improve your sex life. Pretty sure about
YT>> that.

T> You are right. How did you know that?

Womens' intuition.

YT>>  And 1.52x to 1.52y is not likely help much either.

T> Really? In that case, what is the improvement? ;-)

Does the dishes now.  ^_^

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Best,

Yuki

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Re[2]: Versions Coming Fast & Furious

[IronHand]

Hello!

As an answer for Your letter, I would like to write:

>> There is nothing like finished program, so You want us think, that every
>> program is a trial verion? Cute! ;)))
> He is kinda right though, every program that's shipped out has
> minor or major bugs that lurk in the dark just waiting to bite,
> the only diff is that the shipped out program contains much
> lesser bugs then betas.

But tirl is something _really_ different, that's what i meant. I know,
that bugs are always ard everywhere...

>> BTW: I think, that the letter a-z is a bugfix. I just couldn't
>> understand, why RIT didn't do any patch program. So I've checked
>> differences between 1.52c and 1.52e. Exe length is equal, so it's highly
>> posible, that only some value passed to some object was changed. I was
>> wrong! The Bat! weights about 3.7 mb, and 1.5 mb changed, co patch would
>> be not very lighter.
>> And thats why I download every single version.
> Hmm... the problem of a little patch app was debated here, in
> fact I think I started it :)
> hmm lemme se 1/3 dl time, that would mean for me 5 mins instead
> of 15, I _can_ se an obvious advantage.

Well I'll try to make 1.52d->f patch and see what is the weight save,
ok? I know, that that's a _big_ difference, but can't You use some
mirror? I live in POland and using Unofficial Polish The Bat site.
(http://thebat.kappa.com.pl)

> Then again, at least at this point Open Source is very similar
> with the M$ world. Open S. programmers do not build patches,
> they just make them available for program sources and the users
> can rebuild the programs themselves...

Well, I don't understand what You mean. The Bat! is not OS. I'm a little
confused...

Best Regards
IronHand
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Re[2]: Versions Coming Fast & Furious

[Yuki Taga]

Tuesday, May 08, 2001, 9:10:04 PM, Silviu wrote:

SC> What in the world is going on ?! Have the RIT guys flipped ?!

Doubtful, but a lot of users have probably flipped.  

>From 1.51 to 1.52 is a **minor** version change.  For most users, there is
simply no justification in downloading it and installing it -- unless you
want to be constantly on the buggy, cutting edge of development.  I will
probably wait myself for at least version 1.6 -- and even that wouldn't
have a version number that would *make* me download it.  ^_^

Software construction is a trial and error process.  Many, many builds are
created.  The RIT people are apparently putting them all on the FTP site,
which is certainly okay, but most people have no business downloading them,
IMHO.  And when there is a letter designation at the end of a minor version
number, you need an *especially* good reason to install it.

You get a stable build, you stick with it until a version comes out that
has some improvement you just can't live without.  Even then, smart users
let the cutting edge people find the inevitable bugs before installing.
Installing every version you find on the FTP site is simply madness, AFAIC.
>From 1.51 to 1.52 is not going to improve your sex life. Pretty sure about
that.  And 1.52x to 1.52y is not likely help much either.

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Best,

Yuki

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Re[2]: Versions Coming Fast & Furious

[Marek Mikus]

Hello all,
Tuesday, May 08, 2001, David van Zuijlekom wrote:

DAC>>> At http://www.ritlabs.com/the_bat/download.html they are back to
DAC>>> offering 1.51 again.

NA>> We must be looking at two different pages, because when I access that URL
NA>> I see v1.52e being offered? Anyone else see v1.51 as Dwight does?

> They didn't update the downloadpage. It still mentions version 1.51
> but if you download it, you get the latest version of 1.52. I have
> version 1.52f now.

downoad page was changed, but You (or Your ISP) have it in proxy cache.

-- 

Bye

Marek Mikus

Using the best The Bat! 1.52f
under the worst Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 
Intel Celeron 266 MHz, 96 MB RAM

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Re[2]: Versions Coming Fast & Furious

[Jan Rifkinson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hello Nick,

On Monday, May 07, 2001 12:55:00 [ -0700 GMT], you wrote the
following in regards to 'Versions Coming Fast & Furious':

Nick> On May 7, 2001, at 11:51:26 AM, Dwight A Corrin wrote:

DAC>> At http://www.ritlabs.com/the_bat/download.html they are back to
DAC>> offering 1.51 again.

Nick> We must be looking at two different pages, because when I access that URL
Nick> I see v1.52e being offered? Anyone else see v1.51 as Dwight does?

  Maybe Dwight didn't refresh the page.

- --
Jan Rifkinson
Ridgefield, CT USA
TB! v1.52 Beta/12/WinMe/PGP Key ID: 0x3F14A060
ICQ 41116329

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