Re: default account column settings and threading mode
Hello Ming-Li, On Thursday, December 21, 2000 at 06:41:07 GMT -0800 you wrote on "default account column settings and threading mode": Just found out that checking the "use account default column settings" option in a folder's properties would not only do that, but also subject the folder to the "default threading mode", if there's such a thing. Is it proper to speak of a default threading mode? I think not. It appears to me that there is no way to fix threading mode "enough" to justify speaking of a "default threading mode". True, if you choose a given threading mode in a folder with the "use default column settings" checked, the threading mode of the other folders with this option checked changes too. But so what? You only need to press Alt + 0-5 to change the threading mode to whatever you like. Is this flexibility not preferable to a true "default threading mode", where you would have to open a dialogue whenever you wanted to view in a different threading mode? (Why not go for a "default sorting mode" as well, then?!) As I understand your problem it is not caused by the folders sharing threading mode, but by TB not being able to fix folders by other parameters than account settings. Some other mail- and news client has an "apply to sub-folders"-option, and it would be nice with something like this in TB. But, preferably, something stronger: like an option to set *any* folder as model for column settings - and a corresponding option to *choose* any of the model-folders' settings for a given folder. I belive this could solve your problems (it certainly would solve mine!). I'm sorry that I couldn't make my point more brief and clear, but I hope it's clear enough to contribute to the discussion of what it actually is that we should be putting on the wish list in this respect. Best regards, Jannik Lindquist The Bat! Ver. 1.48e Windows 98 4 10 A -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: default account column settings and threading mode
On Saturday, December 23, 2000, 6:24:07 AM, Jannik wrote: Just found out that checking the "use account default column settings" option in a folder's properties would not only do that, but also subject the folder to the "default threading mode", if there's such a thing. Is it proper to speak of a default threading mode? I think not. It appears to me that there is no way to fix threading mode "enough" to justify speaking of a "default threading mode". What do you mean by "fixing" threading mode? Enough? True, if you choose a given threading mode in a folder with the "use default column settings" checked, the threading mode of the other folders with this option checked changes too. It's exactly this behavior that makes me calling it "default threading mode", for its obvious analogy to the "default column settings". But so what? You only need to press Alt + 0-5 to change the threading mode to whatever you like. I know that, and that's what I've been doing. What I want is not having to change threading mode when changing folder. From my POV at least, it would be a more logical implementation. Is this flexibility not preferable to a true "default threading mode", where you would have to open a dialogue whenever you wanted to view in a different threading mode? Sorry, I don't know what you're talking about. Dialog? What dialog? I didn't advocate any dialog, did I? (Why not go for a "default sorting mode" as well, then?!) You seems to think I'm suggesting a default threading mode (otherwise I can't make sense of this sentence). I didn't! I said I want threading mode to be separated from the default column settings. I didn't say I want a default threading mode, let alone default sorting mode. As I understand your problem it is not caused by the folders sharing threading mode, but by TB not being able to fix folders by other parameters than account settings. Some other mail- and news client has an "apply to sub-folders"-option, and it would be nice with something like this in TB. But, preferably, something stronger: like an option to set *any* folder as model for column settings - and a corresponding option to *choose* any of the model-folders' settings for a given folder. I belive this could solve your problems (it certainly would solve mine!). The ability to set options on multiple folders and even across accounts have been mentioned by many (me included), and I believe RIT knows it. What I was suggesting, however, is not really related to it. I like the way default column settings work in TB. It isn't very intuitive (so many new users ask about how to set up the default column settings), but once you get it, it's very easy to use. Yes, it would be nice if I can set up a column arrangement and apply it to several folders, but that won't make the "default column settings" less useful. Threading mode is another thing. How I want to thread a mailing list has nothing to do with how I want my "default column settings" to be. Or let me put it this way: I'm thankful for the existence of default column settings, for it allows me to adjust column arrangement and the adjustment is made to all like folders. OTOH, when I change threading mode, I don't want other folders' threading mode to be changed. It shouldn't be hard to change the behavior, either. TB already remembers the treading mode and column settings on a folder by folder basis (unless those using the default column settings). So the folder structure database should look something like: Folder idthreading column settings A1 ... B2 ... C3 ... [Default]1 ... where A, B, and C are folders that don't use the default column settings. Now, I feel it's better if it's like this: Folder idthreading column settings A1 ... B2 ... C3 ... D1 [default] E2 [default] [Default]N/A ... So D and E can have their respective threading mode, but use the same column settings. -- Best regards, Ming-Li The Bat! 1.48f | Win2k SP1 -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: default account column settings and threading mode
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, 23 Dec 2000 08:38:35 -0800, Ming-Li contributed this to our collective wisdom: [] ML Or let me put it this way: I'm thankful for the existence of default ML column settings, for it allows me to adjust column arrangement and ML the adjustment is made to all like folders. OTOH, when I change ML threading mode, I don't want other folders' threading mode to be ML changed. ML It shouldn't be hard to change the behavior, either. It doesn't seem so straightforward to me, unless the business of assigning each view their own column settings is avoided. If I thread messages, I set my columns differently from if I don't thread. I also set the columns differently when threading by references as opposed to threading by subject. I appreciate being able to toggle these views in one view folder and see that the columns are appropriately adjusted for each view as I want it. I actually love this facility. Now, if I change from no threading to threading by references in one of my default folders and expect that the other folders columns will not change as well, how can the default folder implementation remain the way it is and yet the functionality of being able to configure column settings for each sorting method, on a per folder basis remain intact without things remaining the way they are now? ML TB already remembers the treading mode and column settings on a ML folder by folder basis (unless those using the default column ML settings). It also remembers the columns settings for each major sorting method on a per folder basis. ML It shouldn't be hard to change the behavior, either. So the folder ML structure database should look something like: [] ML Now, I feel it's better if it's like this: ML Folder idthreading column settings ML A1 ... ML B2 ... ML C3 ... ML D1 [default] ML E2 [default] ML [Default]N/A ... ML So D and E can have their respective threading mode, but use the ML same column settings. I don't think you're realising that each sorting mode is assigned its own column settings and that this is very useful. This is what is complicating matters. I don't want my columns to be the same for thread view as opposed to non-threaded view. I even prefer a different column setting for threading by references as opposed to threading by subject. If I decide to change to sorting view for a folder, the columns would need to be changed as well and if this a default folder then whammo!, the conflict arises. For me, my default folders are TRUE defaults. If I wish to change the sorting view, I wish it to be done for all the folders. If I wish the columns to be changed, I wish it for all the folders. IOW's, all the default folders should look exactly alike at all times. If there's an exception to that rule, I can always go back and change the odd one out manually after the grand change has been made. - -- @~@@~@ | A. Curtis Martin [List Moderator TBUDL/TBBETA] | | PGPKey: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendAlliePGPKey | @_@ (Opinions given are mine and not those of RITLABS) @_@ 'Tact: making a point without making an enemy.' __ TB! v1.48f | Windows NT 5.00.2195 (Service Pack 1) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8 Comment: Digitally signed for sender verification. iQA/AwUBOkT4n1fJ62ArBxfiEQJPQACgjaKQGg7wzCdHbD/l26E4s1PLAOYAnROo JQFtV8c8r2V1yRYz2iukQhuH =xAmj -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: default account column settings and threading mode
On Saturday, December 23, 2000, 11:10:23 AM, A. wrote: ML It shouldn't be hard to change the behavior, either. It doesn't seem so straightforward to me, unless the business of assigning each view their own column settings is avoided. I do know each threading view can have its own column settings, but it just add more fields to my hypothetical folder structure table. I don't think it increases the complexity, though. If I thread messages, I set my columns differently from if I don't thread. I also set the columns differently when threading by references as opposed to threading by subject. I appreciate being able to toggle these views in one view folder and see that the columns are appropriately adjusted for each view as I want it. I actually love this facility. Me too, no argument with that. Now, if I change from no threading to threading by references in one of my default folders and expect that the other folders columns will not change as well, how can the default folder implementation remain the way it is and yet the functionality of being able to configure column settings for each sorting method, on a per folder basis remain intact without things remaining the way they are now? I don't see why not. Let me expand my table a little. Here's what we have: Foldercurrentcol setting 0col setting 1col setting 2 . idthreading A 0 xyz yzxtqwer B 2 tyui rty iop C 3 vbm xcv ghjk [Def] 1 edc tgb ujm Again, A, B, and C are non-default folders. TB remembers their column settings for each threading view (col setting 0 to 4, corresponding to alt-0 to alt-4). When you switch threading view for folder A (from 0 to 2), you don't have to readjust its col setting, for TB would take it from the col setting 2. Same for the default folder. What I suggest is: Foldercurrentcol setting 0col setting 1col setting 2 . idthreading A 0 xyz yzxtqwer B 2 tyui rty iop C 3 vbm xcv ghjk [Def] N/Aedc tgb ujm D 0 [def][def] [def] E 1 [def][def] [def] F 2 [def][def] [def] You see? We don't have to change the table structure in place. We only need to define a new value for the fields (signalling that [def] is to be used) and slight changes to the program logic. So default folders (folder D to F) can have their own threading view respectively, but their column settings would be taken from the appropriate field of the [Def] folder record. Hope that clears my intention. -- Best regards, Ming-Li The Bat! 1.48f | Win2k SP1 -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: default account column settings and threading mode
On Saturday, December 23, 2000, 11:10:23 AM, A. wrote: Sorry, I forgot to address the following argument in my previous reply. For me, my default folders are TRUE defaults. If I wish to change the sorting view, I wish it to be done for all the folders. You mean "sorting view", or threading view? Either one is hard to understand to me. May I ask how many of your folders are default folders? To me, I want all my folders (except Outbox and Sent folder) to be default folders. IOW, I want all my folders to look the same when threading by, say, references. Same as you, I want different column settings for "threading by references" and "threading by subject". The most logical way to do this, is to have 5 default column settings, one for each threading view. Then all my folders could be default folders, and when I change view, it just use the default column setting for that view. What I don't want, is when I change threading view for my TB-related folders (which I prefer threading by references), my school mailing list folders are also changed. Why? Because it makes no sense to thread my school mail by references (many of them have no reference fields in the headers). Currently the only way to avoid this is to make one (or both) of them a non-default folder, and change its settings individually. But that makes adjusting column settings a pain. Say I have 10 folders (actually many more). 2 of them are normally threaded by references, 3 of them are threaded by subject, and the other 5 not threaded at all. The best I can do is set the 5 non-threaded to default folders, and adjust column settings for the other 5 individually. I regularly use those 3 threading views for all of them (though for each folder, one is preferred and used most often), so I have to set up 18 different column settings (and the more folders I have, the more settings to set up). If we do it my way, I need to do that only 3 times, regardless how many folders I have! Assuming I want to adjust the size of my TB window tomorrow, and want to adjust the width of subject column. How many adjustments do I have to make? Currently, 18. In my way, 3. -- Best regards, Ming-Li The Bat! 1.48f | Win2k SP1 -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: default account column settings and threading mode
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, 23 Dec 2000 16:27:07 -0800, Ming-Li graced us with these comments: ML Sorry, I forgot to address the following argument in my previous ML reply. I'll answer this one because you said in a single clear sentence what you expounded on in your previous note. :=) For me, my default folders are TRUE defaults. If I wish to change the sorting view, I wish it to be done for all the folders. ML You mean "sorting view", or threading view? I mean all the different threading views and the unthreaded view. ML Either one is hard to understand to me. May I ask how many of your ML folders are default folders? Out of 28 folders, 15 are using the default settings. ML To me, I want all my folders (except Outbox and Sent folder) to be ML default folders. IOW, I want all my folders to look the same ML threading by, say, references. Same as you, I want different column ML settings for "threading by references" and "threading by subject". Not really like me. I may wish to thread two folders by references and yet wish to have different column settings for both folders. It depends on what types of messages I'm threading. For instance, message size may be important to me in one folder while it's not in the other. ML The most logical way to do this, is to have 5 default column ML settings, one for each threading view. Yes! This is what I understood from your explanation in your previous message and I agree that this would be the only way of sorting this out while maintaining present functionality and I must say, it sounds good. :=) I have no problem with that. However, I'm beginning to wonder if this isn't already the case. Hmmm, if I change one of my default folders view to different threading modes, adjusting the column settings, I can now switch from one view to the other and see that my adjustments have been saved for each view. If I go to another of the default folders and do the same, I see the same column settings as I created in the previous default folder appear. So it would seem that this has already been implemented. Now its just to implement an option that prevents the other default folders from changing threading view when one of the others has been changed. ML Then all my folders could be default folders, and when I change ML view, it just use the default column setting for that view. Right. ML What I don't want, is when I change threading view for my TB-related ML folders (which I prefer threading by references), my school mailing ML list folders are also changed. Why? Because it makes no sense to ML thread my school mail by references (many of them have no reference ML fields in the headers). Currently the only way to avoid this is to ML make one (or both) of them a non-default folder, and change its ML settings individually. But that makes adjusting column settings a ML pain. Not really. You do it once. I can't tell the last time I've adjusted column settings and half of my folders don't use default column settings. ML Say I have 10 folders (actually many more). 2 of them are normally ML threaded by references, 3 of them are threaded by subject, and the ML other 5 not threaded at all. The best I can do is set the 5 ML non-threaded to default folders, and adjust column settings for the ML other 5 individually. I regularly use those 3 threading views for ML all of them (though for each folder, one is preferred and used most ML often), so I have to set up 18 different column settings (and the ML more folders I have, the more settings to set up). If we do it my ML way, I need to do that only 3 times, regardless how many folders I ML have! I see the problem you're having and I agree with your solution though I'd prefer if it were made optional. I personally prefer if the view changes as well as the column settings for all my default folders when I make a change. - -- @~@@~@ | A. Curtis Martin [List Moderator TBUDL/TBBETA] | | PGPKey: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendAlliePGPKey | @_@ (Opinions given are mine and not those of RITLABS) @_@ 'Daddy, why doesn't this magnet pick up this floppy disk?' __ TB! v1.48f | Windows NT 5.00.2195 (Service Pack 1) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8 Comment: Digitally signed for sender verification. iQA/AwUBOkVI8FfJ62ArBxfiEQIRqwCfZoqNCzGo3FtdCinl/UO6t/zgekoAmQG6 fJozk/lpB18L5ZF2autybpVX =mbJs -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: default account column settings and threading mode
On Thursday, December 21, 2000, 10:41:58 AM, A. wrote: Yes, it has always been like this. :-( Well, you may have already noted that each view has its own column settings, in that if you switch from one thread view to another, the columns will change. Yes, this much I know. Therefore, if you change from unthreaded mode to threaded mode in one of the folders using the default column settings, you'd have effectively changed its column settings and the other default folders will follow suit. Thank you for trying to make sense of it. Still, since TB is smart enough to remember different column settings for different threading mode, I don't see why it shouldn't remember which mode one folder is using. The way I see it, there are one default column setting for each threading mode, and a folder using default settings should be able to choose its own mode. Well, another wish list item. For now, I guess I have to give up the default settings for about 2/3 of my folders. :( -- Best regards, Ming-Li The Bat! 1.48f | Win2k SP1 -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
default account column settings and threading mode
Hi all, Just found out that checking the "use account default column settings" option in a folder's properties would not only do that, but also subject the folder to the "default threading mode", if there's such a thing. IOW, if you change the column settings on a folder with the option enabled, all other folders (in the same account) with the same option enabled would be changed, too. So much is expected. What I didn't know is, changing the threading mode of one such folder also change the threading mode of others. Has it always been like this (how come I didn't notice it)? IMHO, it's not a good idea. First of all, the account default column settings should be just that, not including threading mode. Second, as a practical matter, it doesn't make sense, either. Most of my folders use the same column settings, but they need different threading. For some folders (TB related ones, e.g.), threading by reference is the best (for me). For some other mailing lists, only threading by subject works (too many messages from yahoo or hotmail users that don't provide references). For private mail, or some other special mailing lists, no threading is preferred. Could someone tell me if it's always been like this, or it's been changed? What's your take on this? Any advantages to its current implementation? -- Best regards, Ming-Li The Bat! 1.48f | Win2k SP1 -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: default account column settings and threading mode
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 When I saw Ming-Li's message about "default account column settings and threading mode ", I felt like making these comments: ML [snipped] IOW, if you change the column settings on a folder with ML the option enabled, all other folders (in the same account) with the ML same option enabled would be changed, too. So much is expected. What ML I didn't know is, changing the threading mode of one such folder ML also change the threading mode of others. ML Has it always been like this (how come I didn't notice it)? Yes, it has always been like this. ML IMHO, it's not a good idea. First of all, the account default column ML settings should be just that, not including threading mode. Second, ML as a practical matter, it doesn't make sense, either. [snipped] ML Could someone tell me if it's always been like this, or it's been ML changed? What's your take on this? Any advantages to its current ML implementation? Well, you may have already noted that each view has its own column settings, in that if you switch from one thread view to another, the columns will change. Therefore, if you change from unthreaded mode to threaded mode in one of the folders using the default column settings, you'd have effectively changed its column settings and the other default folders will follow suit. Whether or not the other folders should follow threaded mode, I agree that they shouldn't but I do see why the 'problem' exists. I personally don't mind since I use the same view and column settings for my default folders. It works for me but I see your problem and acknowledge it. - -- @~@@~@ | A. Curtis Martin [List Moderator TBUDL/TBBETA] | | PGPKey: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendAlliePGPKey | @_@ (Opinions given are mine and not those of RITLABS) @_@ 'As long as I can remember, I've had amnesia.' __ TB! v1.48f | Windows NT 5.00.2195 (Service Pack 1) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8 Comment: Digitally signed for sender verification. iQA/AwUBOkJO9lfJ62ArBxfiEQLYowCeKhiOhz0Qn4ArtSjNg0lWaW8C6pwAoO8G MzOxKrWXHhhlNaaSJVewq4TV =JEFV -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
