Re: [lopsa-tech] Email naming convention
On Oct 24, 2009, at 12:21 AM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote: > Do you use zimbra as your main email server, for all your day to day > mail, > and collaboration with colleagues? > > Do you work for another company, and also use exchange for all your > day to > day mail and collaboration with colleagues? So that way, you could > say you > have a true solid grounds for comparison... I have both, actually, so yes. My Zimbra server is all my day to day personal e-mail, including but not limited to calendar collaboration with family members. In addition, $DAY_JOB has me on an Exchange server. :-) > Do you never find that either of them behaves strange or buggy? I find that they are about equal in terms of their "occasions to quirk". > So I've grown very skeptical of "it's just like exchange." Zimbra will never be accused of being exchange-like in its GUI or anything like that, but it appears for all intents and purposes to support EAS just fine, and - like I said - I just told Apple Mail that "zimbra.megacity.org" was an Exchange server and it happily said "OK, great! I got it"... same with my Palm Pre (which is happily syncing mail, contacts, and calendar). > I have seen bugs in exchange 2003 and outlook 2003. But ever since > exchange > 2007 and outlook 2007 ... it's simply awesome. We're also using 2k7 at work, and I'll admit it's better than previous iterations. > Admittedly, I haven't tried zimbra. Maybe it is truly better than > Kerio? Of that, it would sound, I have little doubt. D ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] Email naming convention
> I find I like the way iCal, Mail, > and > Addressbook are three separate programs that seem to talk to each other > well. What are you using for the backend to iCal? I find iCal is reliable as long as you're just using it on the local laptop with no server. Every time I use iCal with google apps in the backend, it's a disaster. Details if you want 'em. ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] Email naming convention
On 2009-10-23 22:40, Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH wrote: > On Oct 23, 2009, at 23:29 , Joseph S D Yao wrote: >> Or get a separate calendar. I mean, who first thought to put a calendar >> into a MAIL program, of all things? > > > Anyone who schedules meetings via email. Following the Unix approach of do one thing and do it well, I prefer that these be separate tools that integrate well. Just because an invite might show up as a message in my inbox doesn't mean that the mail program should be responsible for maintaining the calendar. Maybe I've drunk too much Apple kool-aid, but I find I like the way iCal, Mail, and Addressbook are three separate programs that seem to talk to each other well. This has the added benefit of I could replace the front end of one of these programs (say calendar) and still use the same backend to hold the calendar. -- "The speed of communications is wondrous to behold. It is also true that speed can multiply the distribution of information that we know to be untrue." Edward R Murrow (1964) Mark McCullough mmc...@earthink.net ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] Email naming convention
> The Eudora mail client allows this. I believe Thunderbird does, too. > Possibly the Zimbra Web client. Hmmm. Zimbra allows different > personae, but I'm not sure about the catchall accounts on the back-end. > > Mutt, of course, allows you complete control over the header lines up > to > the moment you send the message. See who this is from? Dude, every mail client can send "from" any address, as long as the smtp server allows it. Don't spoof my address again, that's really annoying, and any child age 8 or over knows how to do it. Not impressive, but very annoying. ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] Email naming convention
> Zimbra FTW. > > Especially in 6.0, it's exactly the same as Exchange (in fact, in > Apple Mail, I told it that my Zimbra server was an Exchange server, > and now it happily keeps my iCal and Zimbra calendar in sync > automagically). Do you use zimbra as your main email server, for all your day to day mail, and collaboration with colleagues? Do you work for another company, and also use exchange for all your day to day mail and collaboration with colleagues? So that way, you could say you have a true solid grounds for comparison... Do you never find that either of them behaves strange or buggy? I tried Kerio for a few months, which I naively assumed to be equal but different from zimbra. I found where people said it was "just like exchange," there were some important differences. Kerio uses an outlook connector plugin. This is meant to emulate all the exchange functionality, but as in any emulator, nobody's perfect, and there will be some subtle differences. When I search my mail in Kerio, outlook locks up until the search is complete and all the results are displayed. When I search my mail in exchange, the spyglass spins around and I can do other things while it's working, and if I see the results I want, I can stop the search before it's complete. Also, items in my calendar ... If I enter notes into the body of a calendar event ... with Kerio, a reminder comes up, and I double click it, and it asks "open this occurrence, or the series?" If I open the series, everything's fine. If I open the occurrence, the notes are blank. Long story short, there were a lot of little bugs like that. Good enough to use. Good enough to say it's the same, only if you don't use both and have a good measure for comparison. So then ... Kerio says it supports activesync, and blackberry via notifylink and astrasync, which is supposed to be just as good as BES. But I never have any problems with BES, and yet, activesync constantly disconnects when on wifi, and with either notifylink or astrasync, I had problems with my reminders not occurring. And then when you login to the web interface ... Kerio could search only based on to/from/subject fields, and maybe some other fields. But it couldn't search message body. So I've grown very skeptical of "it's just like exchange." I have seen bugs in exchange 2003 and outlook 2003. But ever since exchange 2007 and outlook 2007 ... it's simply awesome. I never encounter any weird bugs at all, and it's much faster than any other mail system I use, particularly gmail and Kerio. Admittedly, I haven't tried zimbra. Maybe it is truly better than Kerio? ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] RHEL Linux, dkms and nvidia drivers
> We have a bunch of linux workstations with NVIDIA cards and drivers from > the NVIDIA tarballs. A kernel upgrade will not have the NVIDIA drivers, > usually resulting in the system failing out to a console login -- which > has proven very distressing to our users. > > In theory, dkms can help us out with this, but the guys here who've been > trying to make it work have gone grey and bald respectively, but > otherwise no progress. > > Does anyone have a working DKMS config for this, or perhaps a better > solution? the dkms-nvidia rpms from rpmforge seem to work fine for me. they are a a little old, but not too bad. ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] Email naming convention
On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 11:31:33PM -0400, Edward Ned Harvey wrote: > > Actually, Gmail supports this out of the box: > > http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2008/03/2-hidden-ways-to-get-more-from- > > your.html > > Too bad gmail doesn't support *sending* with such an address. Although you > may add various aliases for yourself, the outbound message always says your > main email address. Recipients who aren't on gmail will see "on behalf of" The Eudora mail client allows this. I believe Thunderbird does, too. Possibly the Zimbra Web client. Hmmm. Zimbra allows different personae, but I'm not sure about the catchall accounts on the back-end. Mutt, of course, allows you complete control over the header lines up to the moment you send the message. See who this is from? -- /*\ ** ** Joe Yao j...@tux.org - Joseph S. D. Yao ** \*/ ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] Email naming convention
On Oct 23, 2009, at 11:20 PM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote: >> Gmail and especially Exchange are not exactly platforms for those who >> are serious about managing their email so your options are limited in >> these cases. > > LOL. Unfortunately, exchange is the only thing anywhere that has a > reliable > calendar. Zimbra FTW. Especially in 6.0, it's exactly the same as Exchange (in fact, in Apple Mail, I told it that my Zimbra server was an Exchange server, and now it happily keeps my iCal and Zimbra calendar in sync automagically). Cheers, D ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] Email naming convention
On Oct 23, 2009, at 23:29 , Joseph S D Yao wrote: Or get a separate calendar. I mean, who first thought to put a calendar into a MAIL program, of all things? Anyone who schedules meetings via email. -- brandon s. allbery [solaris,freebsd,perl,pugs,haskell] allb...@kf8nh.com system administrator [openafs,heimdal,too many hats] allb...@ece.cmu.edu electrical and computer engineering, carnegie mellon universityKF8NH PGP.sig Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] Email naming convention
> Actually, Gmail supports this out of the box: > http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2008/03/2-hidden-ways-to-get-more-from- > your.html Too bad gmail doesn't support *sending* with such an address. Although you may add various aliases for yourself, the outbound message always says your main email address. Recipients who aren't on gmail will see "on behalf of" ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] Email naming convention
On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 11:20:18PM -0400, Edward Ned Harvey wrote: > > Gmail and especially Exchange are not exactly platforms for those who > > are serious about managing their email so your options are limited in > > these cases. > > LOL. Unfortunately, exchange is the only thing anywhere that has a reliable > calendar. Not so. Try Zimbra. Or get a separate calendar. I mean, who first thought to put a calendar into a MAIL program, of all things? Excuse me, mutt and postfix, where am I supposed to be today? ;-? -- /*\ ** ** Joe Yao j...@tux.org - Joseph S. D. Yao ** \*/ ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] Email naming convention
> Gmail and especially Exchange are not exactly platforms for those who > are serious about managing their email so your options are limited in > these cases. LOL. Unfortunately, exchange is the only thing anywhere that has a reliable calendar. ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] Email naming convention
> Actually, Gmail supports this out of the box: > http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2008/03/2-hidden-ways-to-get-more-from- > your.html Good to know. :-) Thanks. ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] Email naming convention
On 2009-10-23 at 20:12 -0600, Jan L. Peterson wrote: > On Fri, 2009-10-23 at 22:00 -0400, Edward Ned Harvey wrote: > > > you could do most of this today with plus addressing like > > > david+catch...@lang.hm > > > > How? I don't know of any option in exchange or gmail to enable such a > > feature. > > Actually, Gmail supports this out of the box: > http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2008/03/2-hidden-ways-to-get-more-from-your.html Disclaimer: speaking in a personal capacity Also, Gmail canonicalises away any dots, so jan.l.peter...@gmail.com == janlpeter...@gmail.com == jan.l.pete.r@gmail.com. So you can use plus sub-addressing where supported and if not supported you can insert some extra dots in the address. Not so convenient, but you're working around buggy code elsewhere and I know some people who like having the option away. Also, Google Apps for your Domain supports catch-all addresses. Go to manage the domain, Email settings, main config page under "Email routing" -- you can choose what to do with "Unknown account messages" and the default is "Discard" but you can choose to route them to a catch-all address. I just checked this on the family domain account. It might be a premium feature, I don't recall. For large domains, enabling a catch-all is almost certainly a mistake. The volumes are prohibitive, even after spam-filtering. For small domains, *shrug*. On my personal email which goes to my colo-box, I used to have a catchall address. When I transitioned mail to my colo-box from a friend's machine who'd helped me out for a while, I enabled catchall on the older domain. That lasted not-very-many minutes and proved to be unwise. For a newer domain like spodhuis.org, I could get away with it for a little while. However, there are harvesters which don't understand the different between an email address and a message-id, or which break at the hyphen in "lopsa-tech". And then I got the joe-jobs from random left-hand-sides, resulting in bounces. So after a while, I gave in and demoted the catchall to "kinda works in a pinch" status -- I configured my MTA so that the catchall address only exists if the SMTP Envelope Sender is not empty. Since I never send from a catchall, this works, but it does break some sign-up. I could get away with this because I had configured my system so that if a Shared Folder in Cyrus was created, then that left-hand-side springs into existence. Ie, by creating "Shared Folders/spodhuis/bert", the address b...@spodhuis.org becomes valid and is delivered to the shared folder with no further configuration. With that, my wife could just create a new folder for a new LHS and things would work. But these days, she mostly just uses Gmail anyway. She finds it much easier to use than Thunderbird. Regards, -Phil ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] Email naming convention
JLP == Jan L Peterson JLP> Sadly, many many web sites (where you might want to use such an JLP> address so you can tell if (or to whom) they've sold your e-mail JLP> address) use stupid e-mail address validation code that thinks that's JLP> an invalid e-mail address. I hate this a lot. :^( But if you run your own domain, you can use a different delimiter, such as a dash character, and do irilyth-siten...@infersys.com, if you're so inclined. (I haven't, but a friend has; I might at some point, but am lazy. -Josh (iril...@infersys.com) ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] Email naming convention
On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 10:00:02PM -0400, Edward Ned Harvey spake thusly: > How? I don't know of any option in exchange or gmail to enable such a > feature. Gmail and especially Exchange are not exactly platforms for those who are serious about managing their email so your options are limited in these cases. I have used this feature quite extensively for over 10 years since I first discovered qmail. I now use it with postfix. I pipe all of my email through a program which filters out email addresses known to be getting spam. These days that is a LOT of addresses. That unique email address also gives my bayes filter something nice to cue off of. -- Tracy Reed http://tracyreed.org pgpkgBX1xgdmE.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] Email naming convention
On Fri, 2009-10-23 at 22:00 -0400, Edward Ned Harvey wrote: > > you could do most of this today with plus addressing like > > david+catch...@lang.hm > > How? I don't know of any option in exchange or gmail to enable such a > feature. Actually, Gmail supports this out of the box: http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2008/03/2-hidden-ways-to-get-more-from-your.html I think you're out of luck with Exchange, though. -jan- -- Jan L. Peterson http://www.peterson-tech.com/~jlp/ ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] Email naming convention
On Fri, 2009-10-23 at 18:55 -0700, da...@lang.hm wrote: > you could do most of this today with plus addressing like > david+catch...@lang.hm > > you can do all the normal filtering on the + part (on a per-user basis), > can be used to auto-sort your inbound mail into different folders and > leave unqualified stuff in your main folder Sadly, many many web sites (where you might want to use such an address so you can tell if (or to whom) they've sold your e-mail address) use stupid e-mail address validation code that thinks that's an invalid e-mail address. I have a special "yoursiteisbro...@peterson.ath.cx" e-mail address for such cases, but it's still a pain. -jan- -- Jan L. Peterson http://www.peterson-tech.com/~jlp/ ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] Email naming convention
> you could do most of this today with plus addressing like > david+catch...@lang.hm How? I don't know of any option in exchange or gmail to enable such a feature. ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] Email naming convention
you could do most of this today with plus addressing like david+catch...@lang.hm you can do all the normal filtering on the + part (on a per-user basis), can be used to auto-sort your inbound mail into different folders and leave unqualified stuff in your main folder David Lang On Fri, 23 Oct 2009, Edward Ned Harvey wrote: Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 21:41:46 -0400 From: Edward Ned Harvey To: tech Subject: [lopsa-tech] Email naming convention You know what I really wish existed? catch...@eharvey.company.com catch...@jsmith.company.com catch...@anotherusername.company.com and so on. (No, this does not address the multiple-users-with-same-name problem.) This is something completely separate. I do magnificently well with catch...@nedharvey.com . I never give out the same email address twice. (Note, lo...@nedharvey.com, and radiosh...@nedharvey.com, etc) and when I start receiving spam on some address . I know who let my address "leak" to spammers, and I simply throw away that address (or filter it). Yes, I recognize, if something like the above were popular, then spammers would send mail to randomj...@your.domain.com, but I think the next step would be really obvious . Whenever I send mail to some email address, my server autogenerates my From is randomj...@your.domain.com, and my server keeps track of "3jck...@your.domain.com corresponds with andy.sm...@somedomain.com" and so on . if my server receives something addressed to someotherrandomj...@your.domain.com, or if my server receives something addressed to 3jck...@your.domain.com which didn't come from andy.sm...@somedomain.com . the server can flag it or handle it in various possible ways. Meh, I'm not describing it well, but I don't care. I just want to blow steam for a minute or two here, on something that I think is a good idea, which will never stand a chance of existing due to the fact that there's no money in it, and nobody gives a crap about developing such things. And then go get a beer. ;-) Problem is, all the existing implementations of things like . Exchange, Google Apps, collaboration email suite du jour . None of them understand how to handle something like this. When I login as eharvey, I need my global addressbook auto-populated with the list of other users in the organization. But all the existing mail collaboration suites assume the domain name draws the organization boundary. ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/ ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
[lopsa-tech] Email naming convention
You know what I really wish existed? catch...@eharvey.company.com catch...@jsmith.company.com catch...@anotherusername.company.com and so on. (No, this does not address the multiple-users-with-same-name problem.) This is something completely separate. I do magnificently well with catch...@nedharvey.com . I never give out the same email address twice. (Note, lo...@nedharvey.com, and radiosh...@nedharvey.com, etc) and when I start receiving spam on some address . I know who let my address "leak" to spammers, and I simply throw away that address (or filter it). Yes, I recognize, if something like the above were popular, then spammers would send mail to randomj...@your.domain.com, but I think the next step would be really obvious . Whenever I send mail to some email address, my server autogenerates my From is randomj...@your.domain.com, and my server keeps track of "3jck...@your.domain.com corresponds with andy.sm...@somedomain.com" and so on . if my server receives something addressed to someotherrandomj...@your.domain.com, or if my server receives something addressed to 3jck...@your.domain.com which didn't come from andy.sm...@somedomain.com . the server can flag it or handle it in various possible ways. Meh, I'm not describing it well, but I don't care. I just want to blow steam for a minute or two here, on something that I think is a good idea, which will never stand a chance of existing due to the fact that there's no money in it, and nobody gives a crap about developing such things. And then go get a beer. ;-) Problem is, all the existing implementations of things like . Exchange, Google Apps, collaboration email suite du jour . None of them understand how to handle something like this. When I login as eharvey, I need my global addressbook auto-populated with the list of other users in the organization. But all the existing mail collaboration suites assume the domain name draws the organization boundary. ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
