[Texascavers] Re: Park Management Associations

[White Shepherd Lover]

David, et al, 
   
  Actually, there is an organization of NPS Retirees that frequently harass the 
politicians to change their evil ways.  I have recently joined. :-)
   
  Former NPS employes - even former seasonals can join the Coalition too.
  There are a lot of former NPS "big wigs" on board.
   
  http://www.npsretirees.org 
   
  AM
   
  
 


Annmarie Mikelski
Coastal WGSD Rescue Referral
  www.zazzle.com/coastalwgs* 
www.coastalwgsdrr.org
www.cafepress.com/coastalwgs
www.cafepress.com/wgsdstore
www.cafepress.com/caveformations
www.caveformations.com
www.cafepress.com/lymegreen 
Texas Lyme Disease Association
www.cafepress.com/txlda

   
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[Texascavers] Park Fees vs Fishing licenses & Laws

[White Shepherd Lover]

As someone who just retired from over 20 years with the National Park Service, 
and about 6 of those years were in Law Enforcement, I have some idea on this 
subject matter.
   
  NPS areas have 3 different types of jurisdiction:
   
  Exclusive jurisdiction - Very, very few parks have this type of jurisdiction. 
It means that the park is able to enforce its own laws exclusively, without 
state influence.  Yellowstone is a park with exclusive jurisdiction. 
   
  Concurrent jurisdiction - Most NPS units have concurrent jurisdiction with 
the states.  A ranger can enforce federal laws, and the state officials can 
enforce state laws within the park.  The park can use state laws as a way to 
enforce laws "according to state regulations", such as fish sizes and limits.
   
  Proprietary jurisdiction - Park rangers can stop and hold law breakers, and 
can write federal tickets, but unless the ranger is also deputized as a "state 
or local peace officer", they have to call on a state or local enforcement 
officer, or sheriff to make an arrest.
   
  Ok, so fishing & hunting regulations are usually according to state 
regulations, unless the park has "exclusive" jurisdiction, then it can use its 
own regulations.  Fishing & hunting licenses are managed by the state, however, 
if a body of water is encompassed entirely  within the federal park land, then 
the park can waive the state law for needing a fishing license.
   
  Lake Amistad is not entirely surrounded by NPS land, so a fishing license is 
required, AND if you fish in Mexico, you also need the Mexican fishing license. 
 Different country, different laws.
   
  In a case like Lake Powell, where park of the lake is in UT, and part in AZ, 
but it's the same park/lake, either a license from UT or a license from AZ is 
accepted on either part of the lake.
   
  When I worked at Cape Cod National Seashore (MA) ... it has been a long time 
since I've lived there, but I think the state did not require a salt water 
fishing license if you were a non-commercial fisherman, therefore, the park 
also did not require one.  
   
  Park fees:
   
  A park entrance fee does not include anything but the entrance to the park.  
   
  User fees are for specific useage such as camping, launching a motor boat, or 
any other user-specific fee the park might have.
   
  The NPS has no sliding-fee scale, but it does take care of the USA's aged and 
handicapped.  See more info on the new "America the Beautiful Interagency 
Pass", which now allows you free entrance on other federal land areas too. It 
is $80/year for entrance only.  http://www.nps.gov/fees_passes.htm
   
  The disabled can get a FREE LIFETIME "ACCESS PASS", which does also give you 
50% off user fees.
   
  The folks of 62 years or older can purchase the "SENIOR PASS", also a 
LIFETIME entrance pass with 50% off user fees as well.  The price is only $10 & 
all 3 types of passes will admit your carload through the entrance.  
   
  One thought to keep in mind:  Even if you pay $20 for a week at Big Bend and 
take your family & pay for camping, it's still cheaper than taking your family 
to an amusement park for ONE DAY.
   
  
   
  To find out the fees & the need for licenses at each individual park go to 
www.nps.gov 
  For Texas STATE Parks (which is entirely different from NPS parks), 
www.tpwd.state.tx.us 
   
  Enjoy your National Parks!
  AM


Annmarie Mikelski
Coastal WGSD Rescue Referral
  www.zazzle.com/coastalwgs* 
www.coastalwgsdrr.org
www.cafepress.com/coastalwgs
www.cafepress.com/wgsdstore
www.cafepress.com/caveformations
www.caveformations.com
www.cafepress.com/lymegreen 
Texas Lyme Disease Association
www.cafepress.com/txlda

   
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Re: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again

[Stephen Fleming]

Sheryl Rieck wrote:


National Parks are not governed by state laws..



That's not entirely true. It depends on the legal status of the park. 
Parks that have exclusive federal jurisdiction (and Big Bend is one, but 
not all are) are not subject to state law and the state has no ability 
to enforce laws. Parks that are either concurrent jurisdiction (much 
more prevalent) or proprietary jurisdiction ARE subject to state laws.

Re: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again

[Scott]

Here in the New Soviet States of America you must have papers Comrade!




- Original Message - 
From: "Linda Palit" 
To: "'John P. Brooks'" ; "'David Locklear'" 
; 

Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 4:58 PM
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again


Glad you know where to draw the line, John.

I don't know whether to talk about microchips which might be used to  track
us like I track my little doggie (thought I did not have the chip put into
her) -- maybe those could just hold money and be used for debits

Or to talk about the great lists our government has kept over the years to
track those people who don't or even MIGHT NoT agree with current
policy.

Maybe I'll not talk about either.

Wonder if they can track me through my doggie's chip -- maybe that is what's
coming next...

Or if they have really registered my GPS unit so they can track me...

But I digress.

-Original Message-
From: John P. Brooks [mailto:jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net]
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 3:43 PM
To: David Locklear; texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again

That sounds downright UNAMERICAN. A special pass for permission to get out
and enjoy nature? Maybe that would go over big in the Soviet Union; where
they have secret prisons, invade sovereign nations for sport, run wiretaps
without warrants and spy on their citizens...and where the government
runs, make that tramples, peoples civil rights.
But NOT in Americawe don't need no stinkin' special permission
passes...we are free to do as we choose...as long as we pay our taxes...and
don't criticize the secret prisons that we run to house foreign nationals
without giving them a fair trial..and as long as we don't try to wear
t-shirts with arabic slogans printed on the front..and oh yeah...its not
safe to peacefully protest / advocate immigration reform anymore.so our
government may have completely castrated our freedoms..BUT we have to
drawn the line in the sand of liberty somewhereand for me; it starts
with SPECIAL Permission Passes.they will have to pry my "fishing pole"
or "caving gear" from my cold dead fingers before I will ever get a special
permission pass.



On 5/9/07 2:52 PM, "David Locklear"  wrote:


If fisherman have to have a license to fish, why should the government not
collect revenue and require a license for other activities like
rock-climbing and parachuting, and swimming?And caving ?

This would create more local bureacratic jobs and bolster the economy.

Right?

I assume the revenue is needed to enforce the fishing laws, and the police
don't really enforce the current caving laws or swimming laws.

Maybe we need an "outdoor permission pass" that is good for a variety
of activities.   It would work like a cell-phone card and you would
have to load it up occasionally.  If you are caught caving with an
empty card or no card, you
would go to the jail where they put all the fisherman and hunters.We

could

carry it with all the other plastic cards that we carry.

David

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Re: [Texascavers] what the f... accident on rope

[Nico Escamilla]

I'd call it Darwin Award rather than accident
Nico

On 5/9/07, k...@houston.rr.com  wrote:


I don't know if I'd call that an "accident".  Looked to me like he pretty
much did it on purpose...

What a maroon.

- Original Message -
From: Antonio Aguirre Alvarez 
Date: Wednesday, May 9, 2007 5:29 pm
Subject: [Texascavers] what the f... accident on rope
To: texascavers@texascavers.com

>
> what the f... was this guy trying to do? :(
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0bI7GUJcEc
> _
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> Join now.
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Re: [Texascavers] ...accident on rope

[Pete Lindsley]

I smoked a burned line in my leather gloves one time going off the 
Gorman Falls cliff on a brand new rope. It was 3/8 ths inch Goldline. It 
pays to know your equipment  ;-)


 - Pete

Rick wrote:

Back in the day I used to sneak around at night and go off of bridges in the
city, what put a stop to it is one of my friends did a "jump style" (non
aussie, just jump out from the bridge) rap with the idea of grabbing the
rope then getting control, he almost didn't get it.



-Original Message-
From: Pete Lindsley [mailto:linds...@raytheon.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 6:13 PM

To: Antonio Aguirre Alvarez
Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] ...accident on rope

I noticed the other day that all the REI handouts on ropes, harnesses, 
vertical gear, etc. have a new disclaimer that they do not support this 
style of "Aussie" rappelling and state that it is dangerous. A few years 
ago we had one of the local swat team members ask if it was OK if he set 
up next to our boy scout training session on the cliff. It looked like 
he knew what he was doing so I said OK. 10 minutes later out of the 
corner of my eye I saw him "run down the 30 foot cliff" Aussie style. 
That was interesting, but then a while later he had one of our scout 
leaders (who had never been on a rope before) give it a try. I tried it 
myself, once. But I wouldn't let anyone else in our group of 12-15 do it.


In contrast, one of our guys accidentally kicked one of this guy's 
biners over the edge and it hit the ground 30 feet below, on what was 
probably dirt. He said not to worry about it and refused our offer to 
retrieve the biner. He was willing to do the Aussie rappel, but NOT to 
re-use a biner that may have had a nick on it. As far as I am concerned 
this style is only good for sneaking down the face of a building to take 
care of the bad guys as you look in the window from just above.


  - Pete


Antonio Aguirre Alvarez wrote:

what the f... was this guy trying to do? :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0bI7GUJcEc 




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Re: [Texascavers] what the f... accident on rope

[kego]

I don't know if I'd call that an "accident".  Looked to me like he pretty much 
did it on purpose...
What a maroon.

- Original Message - 
From: Antonio Aguirre Alvarez  
Date: Wednesday, May 9, 2007 5:29 pm 
Subject: [Texascavers] what the f... accident on rope 
To: texascavers@texascavers.com 

> 
> what the f... was this guy trying to do? :( 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0bI7GUJcEc 
> _ 
> Download Messenger. Start an i’m conversation. Support a cause. 
> Join now. 
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RE: [Texascavers] ...accident on rope

[Rick]

Back in the day I used to sneak around at night and go off of bridges in the
city, what put a stop to it is one of my friends did a "jump style" (non
aussie, just jump out from the bridge) rap with the idea of grabbing the
rope then getting control, he almost didn't get it.



-Original Message-
From: Pete Lindsley [mailto:linds...@raytheon.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 6:13 PM
To: Antonio Aguirre Alvarez
Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] ...accident on rope

I noticed the other day that all the REI handouts on ropes, harnesses, 
vertical gear, etc. have a new disclaimer that they do not support this 
style of "Aussie" rappelling and state that it is dangerous. A few years 
ago we had one of the local swat team members ask if it was OK if he set 
up next to our boy scout training session on the cliff. It looked like 
he knew what he was doing so I said OK. 10 minutes later out of the 
corner of my eye I saw him "run down the 30 foot cliff" Aussie style. 
That was interesting, but then a while later he had one of our scout 
leaders (who had never been on a rope before) give it a try. I tried it 
myself, once. But I wouldn't let anyone else in our group of 12-15 do it.

In contrast, one of our guys accidentally kicked one of this guy's 
biners over the edge and it hit the ground 30 feet below, on what was 
probably dirt. He said not to worry about it and refused our offer to 
retrieve the biner. He was willing to do the Aussie rappel, but NOT to 
re-use a biner that may have had a nick on it. As far as I am concerned 
this style is only good for sneaking down the face of a building to take 
care of the bad guys as you look in the window from just above.

  - Pete


Antonio Aguirre Alvarez wrote:
> 
> what the f... was this guy trying to do? :(
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0bI7GUJcEc 
> 
> 
> 
> Download Messenger. Start an i'm conversation. Support a cause. Join 
> Now! 

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Re: [Texascavers] ...accident on rope

[Pete Lindsley]

I noticed the other day that all the REI handouts on ropes, harnesses, 
vertical gear, etc. have a new disclaimer that they do not support this 
style of "Aussie" rappelling and state that it is dangerous. A few years 
ago we had one of the local swat team members ask if it was OK if he set 
up next to our boy scout training session on the cliff. It looked like 
he knew what he was doing so I said OK. 10 minutes later out of the 
corner of my eye I saw him "run down the 30 foot cliff" Aussie style. 
That was interesting, but then a while later he had one of our scout 
leaders (who had never been on a rope before) give it a try. I tried it 
myself, once. But I wouldn't let anyone else in our group of 12-15 do it.


In contrast, one of our guys accidentally kicked one of this guy's 
biners over the edge and it hit the ground 30 feet below, on what was 
probably dirt. He said not to worry about it and refused our offer to 
retrieve the biner. He was willing to do the Aussie rappel, but NOT to 
re-use a biner that may have had a nick on it. As far as I am concerned 
this style is only good for sneaking down the face of a building to take 
care of the bad guys as you look in the window from just above.


 - Pete


Antonio Aguirre Alvarez wrote:


what the f... was this guy trying to do? :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0bI7GUJcEc 




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RE: [Texascavers] what the f... accident on rope

[Rick]

Proving that Darwin works in not so mysterious ways, hopefully before he was
able to reproduce.

 

From: Antonio Aguirre Alvarez [mailto:nelfas...@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 5:28 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] what the f... accident on rope

 

 

what the f... was this guy trying to do? :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0bI7GUJcEc 

 

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  Now!

Re: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again

[Pete Lindsley]

That's not how your GPS unit works, Linda. Not unless it has a 
transmitter. GPS signals are receive only from the satellites and are 
really working down in the noise. That's why it takes a dozen receiver 
channels all working together to give us the 10 foot accuracy you can 
get some times. However most GPS units that cavers might use CAN record 
a way point (single location) or track log (bread-crumb trail). If you 
turn on those features you can at least see where you have been. And if 
you have a Garvin and plug it into WALLS  you can download that stuff 
and overlay it over your cave map.


 - Pete

Linda Palit wrote:

Glad you know where to draw the line, John.

...

Or if they have really registered my GPS unit so they can track me...

But I digress.




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[Texascavers] what the f... accident on rope

[Antonio Aguirre Alvarez]

what the f... was this guy trying to do? :(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0bI7GUJcEc 
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RE: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again

[Fritz Holt]

JB,
We would all probably be surprised at the large number of couch potatoes
of all ages who think that "we don't need no stinkin state or national
parks".
Fritz

-Original Message-
From: John P. Brooks [mailto:jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 3:43 PM
To: David Locklear; texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again

That sounds downright UNAMERICAN. A special pass for permission to get
out
and enjoy nature? Maybe that would go over big in the Soviet Union;
where
they have secret prisons, invade sovereign nations for sport, run
wiretaps
without warrants and spy on their citizens...and where the
government
runs, make that tramples, peoples civil rights.
But NOT in Americawe don't need no stinkin' special permission
passes...we are free to do as we choose...as long as we pay our
taxes...and
don't criticize the secret prisons that we run to house foreign
nationals
without giving them a fair trial..and as long as we don't try to
wear
t-shirts with arabic slogans printed on the front..and oh yeah...its
not
safe to peacefully protest / advocate immigration reform anymore.so
our
government may have completely castrated our freedoms..BUT we have
to
drawn the line in the sand of liberty somewhereand for me; it
starts
with SPECIAL Permission Passes.they will have to pry my "fishing
pole"
or "caving gear" from my cold dead fingers before I will ever get a
special
permission pass.



On 5/9/07 2:52 PM, "David Locklear"  wrote:

> If fisherman have to have a license to fish, why should the government
not
> collect revenue and require a license for other activities like
> rock-climbing and parachuting, and swimming?And caving ?
> 
> This would create more local bureacratic jobs and bolster the economy.
> 
> Right?
> 
> I assume the revenue is needed to enforce the fishing laws, and the
police
> don't really enforce the current caving laws or swimming laws.
> 
> Maybe we need an "outdoor permission pass" that is good for a variety
> of activities.   It would work like a cell-phone card and you would
> have to load it up occasionally.  If you are caught caving with an
> empty card or no card, you
> would go to the jail where they put all the fisherman and hunters.
We could
> carry it with all the other plastic cards that we carry.
> 
> David
> 
> -
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RE: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again

[Linda Palit]

Glad you know where to draw the line, John.

I don't know whether to talk about microchips which might be used to  track
us like I track my little doggie (thought I did not have the chip put into
her) -- maybe those could just hold money and be used for debits

Or to talk about the great lists our government has kept over the years to
track those people who don't or even MIGHT NoT agree with current
policy.

Maybe I'll not talk about either.

Wonder if they can track me through my doggie's chip -- maybe that is what's
coming next...

Or if they have really registered my GPS unit so they can track me...

But I digress.

-Original Message-
From: John P. Brooks [mailto:jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 3:43 PM
To: David Locklear; texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again

That sounds downright UNAMERICAN. A special pass for permission to get out
and enjoy nature? Maybe that would go over big in the Soviet Union; where
they have secret prisons, invade sovereign nations for sport, run wiretaps
without warrants and spy on their citizens...and where the government
runs, make that tramples, peoples civil rights.
But NOT in Americawe don't need no stinkin' special permission
passes...we are free to do as we choose...as long as we pay our taxes...and
don't criticize the secret prisons that we run to house foreign nationals
without giving them a fair trial..and as long as we don't try to wear
t-shirts with arabic slogans printed on the front..and oh yeah...its not
safe to peacefully protest / advocate immigration reform anymore.so our
government may have completely castrated our freedoms..BUT we have to
drawn the line in the sand of liberty somewhereand for me; it starts
with SPECIAL Permission Passes.they will have to pry my "fishing pole"
or "caving gear" from my cold dead fingers before I will ever get a special
permission pass.



On 5/9/07 2:52 PM, "David Locklear"  wrote:

> If fisherman have to have a license to fish, why should the government not
> collect revenue and require a license for other activities like
> rock-climbing and parachuting, and swimming?And caving ?
> 
> This would create more local bureacratic jobs and bolster the economy.
> 
> Right?
> 
> I assume the revenue is needed to enforce the fishing laws, and the police
> don't really enforce the current caving laws or swimming laws.
> 
> Maybe we need an "outdoor permission pass" that is good for a variety
> of activities.   It would work like a cell-phone card and you would
> have to load it up occasionally.  If you are caught caving with an
> empty card or no card, you
> would go to the jail where they put all the fisherman and hunters.We
could
> carry it with all the other plastic cards that we carry.
> 
> David
> 
> -
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Re: [Texascavers] [OT] Caving Permission Pass

[Charles Goldsmith]

Don, you forgot your NSS card :)

Charles

On 5/9/07, Don  wrote:


On May 9, 2007, at 3:43 PM, John P. Brooks wrote:

> and for me; it starts with SPECIAL Permission Passes.they will
> have to pry my "fishing pole" or "caving gear" from my cold dead
> fingers before I will ever get a special permission pass.

AMEN brother!   Tell us how you REALLY feel!



My SPECIAL Permission Passes:
Marriage License
Driver's License
Hunting License
Concealed Carry License
Boating License
Herbicide License
Passport
Voter Registration
TSA Membership
;^)

-
Don
moom...@fnbnet.net

Re: [Texascavers] [OT] Caving Permission Pass

[Don]

On May 9, 2007, at 3:43 PM, John P. Brooks wrote:

and for me; it starts with SPECIAL Permission Passes.they will  
have to pry my "fishing pole" or "caving gear" from my cold dead  
fingers before I will ever get a special permission pass.


AMEN brother!   Tell us how you REALLY feel!



My SPECIAL Permission Passes:
Marriage License
Driver's License
Hunting License
Concealed Carry License
Boating License
Herbicide License
Passport
Voter Registration
TSA Membership
;^)

-
Don
moom...@fnbnet.net



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Re: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again

[John P. Brooks]

That sounds downright UNAMERICAN. A special pass for permission to get out
and enjoy nature? Maybe that would go over big in the Soviet Union; where
they have secret prisons, invade sovereign nations for sport, run wiretaps
without warrants and spy on their citizens...and where the government
runs, make that tramples, peoples civil rights.
But NOT in Americawe don't need no stinkin' special permission
passes...we are free to do as we choose...as long as we pay our taxes...and
don't criticize the secret prisons that we run to house foreign nationals
without giving them a fair trial..and as long as we don't try to wear
t-shirts with arabic slogans printed on the front..and oh yeah...its not
safe to peacefully protest / advocate immigration reform anymore.so our
government may have completely castrated our freedoms..BUT we have to
drawn the line in the sand of liberty somewhereand for me; it starts
with SPECIAL Permission Passes.they will have to pry my "fishing pole"
or "caving gear" from my cold dead fingers before I will ever get a special
permission pass.



On 5/9/07 2:52 PM, "David Locklear"  wrote:

> If fisherman have to have a license to fish, why should the government not
> collect revenue and require a license for other activities like
> rock-climbing and parachuting, and swimming?And caving ?
> 
> This would create more local bureacratic jobs and bolster the economy.
> 
> Right?
> 
> I assume the revenue is needed to enforce the fishing laws, and the police
> don't really enforce the current caving laws or swimming laws.
> 
> Maybe we need an "outdoor permission pass" that is good for a variety
> of activities.   It would work like a cell-phone card and you would
> have to load it up occasionally.  If you are caught caving with an
> empty card or no card, you
> would go to the jail where they put all the fisherman and hunters.We could
> carry it with all the other plastic cards that we carry.
> 
> David
> 
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Re: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again

[Don]

On May 9, 2007, at 2:52 PM, David Locklear wrote:

If fisherman have to have a license to fish, why should the  
government not collect revenue and require a license for other  
activities like rock-climbing and parachuting, and swimming?And  
caving ?


They manage the fish and game through restocking programs. The  
government isn't restocking rocks for climbers and karst for cavers  
and air for skydivers or water for swimming. Game management isn't  
cheap. Wardens, facilities, training, rangers, bass, catfish, trout etc.



This would create more local bureacratic jobs and bolster the economy.
Right?
I assume the revenue is needed to enforce the fishing laws, and the  
police don't really enforce the current caving laws or swimming laws.


WTF!?   Caving laws?   Swimming laws?


Maybe we need an "outdoor permission pass"


Well, maybe YOU need an outdoor pass.

that is good for a variety of activities.   It would work like a  
cell-phone card and you would have to load it up occasionally.   
If you are caught caving with an empty card or no card, you would  
go to the jail where they put all the fisherman and hunters.We  
could carry it with all the other plastic cards that we carry.


David


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[Texascavers] Fwd: Advocacy E-News: Texas Parks

[germanyj]

 
May 8 
View on HAS website. 


Texas Parks 


Adequate funding for TPWD directly affects bird habitat, as demonstrated by the 
proposed sale of a portion of the Big Bend Ranch in the fall of 2005. We are in 
the last mile of a 52 mile ultramarathon to adequately fund our state parks. 
The ultramarathon started in 2003. Your help is needed to get to the finish 
line! Please contact the Lt. Governor and Senatee Conferees listed in the 
message from George Bristol below and voice your support for TPWD funding of 
$100 million annually. We have never been this close; your actions will make a 
difference. 

— Stennie Meadours, President, Houston Audubon Society 

Today is the day! Do not delay! 

Please call, fax or email the Lt. Governor's office and the Senate Conferees, 
asking that they adopt FULL FUNDING OF AT LEAST $100 MILLION PER YEAR FOR STATE 
PARKS, as recommended by the Montford Committee and recommended by Speaker Tom 
Craddick to the House conferees last week. The conferees are meeting now and 
there is only 3 weeks left in the session. It is time to act if we are to have 
parks that will be attractive and attracting Texans and tourists. 

The Senate Conferees are: 
Steve Ogden, Co-Chair 512-463-0105Fax 512-463-5713 
Sen. Judith Zaffirini  512-463-0121Fax 512-475-3738 
Sen. Robert Duncan 512-463-0128Fax 512-463-2424 
Sen. John Whitmire  512-463-0115Fax 512-475-3737 
Sen. Tommy Williams512-463-0104Fax 512-463-6373 
Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst can be reached at telephone 512-463-0001 or
Fax 512-936-6700. 

— George L. Bristol, President, Texas Coalition for Conservation
8812 Mesa DriveAustin, TX 78759
512-349-2449   Fax 512-349-2439 


  
www.houstonaudubon.org | Telephone 713-932-1639 | Contact Us | Privacy Policy 

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440 Wilchester Boulevard Houston, TX 77079
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Re: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again

[David Locklear]

If fisherman have to have a license to fish, why should the government not
collect revenue and require a license for other activities like
rock-climbing and parachuting, and swimming?And caving ?

This would create more local bureacratic jobs and bolster the economy.

Right?

I assume the revenue is needed to enforce the fishing laws, and the police
don't really enforce the current caving laws or swimming laws.

Maybe we need an "outdoor permission pass" that is good for a variety
of activities.   It would work like a cell-phone card and you would
have to load it up occasionally.  If you are caught caving with an
empty card or no card, you
would go to the jail where they put all the fisherman and hunters.We could
carry it with all the other plastic cards that we carry.

David

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Re: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again

[J. LaRue Bills]

Thanks all for clearing this up for me. There are just way too many ways to 
say "give your government your money." Jacqui



- Original Message - 
From: 

To: "Sheryl Rieck" 
Cc: 
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 7:55 AM
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again



See this URL for Yellowstone rules:

http://www.nps.gov/yell/planyourvisit/fishing.htm

In it it says:

A Yellowstone National Park Fishing Permit is required to fish in the 
park. Anglers 16 years of age and older are required to purchase either a 
$15 three-day permit, a $20 seven-day permit or $35 season permit.


My hunch is there's a lot of variation.

Bill

 Sheryl Rieck  wrote:
It used to be that if you lived in a town that had a local lake, you 
didn't
have to have a license to fish there.  I don't know if that is still 
true.

That was 25 years ago.

I need to check with the National Seashore and see what they say since it 
is

a national park.  Now, I am all curious.

Sheryl

-Original Message-
From: J. LaRue Bills [mailto:jlrbi...@sonoratx.net]
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 7:38 AM
To: mark.al...@l-3com.com; Sheryl Rieck; texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again

Are you saying that you can fish in National Parks without a license? 
What

other fee would there be, once you've paid to enter the Park? Jacqui


- Original Message - 
From: 

To: "Sheryl Rieck" ; 
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 6:42 AM
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again



Sheryl,

When we went to Mammoth NP in 2006, we could fish for free anywhere
within the NP boundary.

Be sure to double check this, but, I believe there are no charges to
fish in any of the national parks.



Later,

Mark



-Original Message-
From: Sheryl Rieck [mailto:shri...@cableone.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 12:39 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again

I would pay higher park user fees gladly if they made some allowance for
low income people.  I remember when I was a kid, fishing licenses were
cheap.
We were not affluent people and my mom and dad could take us fishing
without a lot of cost.  But, these days, a fishing license is expensive
for someone who does not make much money.  I gladly pay the cost for
one, but would prefer that low income families get theirs at a very low
or no cost.
Fishing is a great family activity and can help them by allowing them to
catch several days worth of dinner.  I have very fond memories of our
many fishing trips.

Sheryl

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RE: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again

[speleosteele]

See this URL for Yellowstone rules:

http://www.nps.gov/yell/planyourvisit/fishing.htm

In it it says:

A Yellowstone National Park Fishing Permit is required to fish in the park. 
Anglers 16 years of age and older are required to purchase either a $15 
three-day permit, a $20 seven-day permit or $35 season permit.

My hunch is there's a lot of variation.

Bill 

 Sheryl Rieck  wrote: 
> It used to be that if you lived in a town that had a local lake, you didn't
> have to have a license to fish there.  I don't know if that is still true.
> That was 25 years ago.  
> 
> I need to check with the National Seashore and see what they say since it is
> a national park.  Now, I am all curious.
> 
> Sheryl
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: J. LaRue Bills [mailto:jlrbi...@sonoratx.net] 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 7:38 AM
> To: mark.al...@l-3com.com; Sheryl Rieck; texascavers@texascavers.com
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again
> 
> Are you saying that you can fish in National Parks without a license? What 
> other fee would there be, once you've paid to enter the Park? Jacqui
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: 
> To: "Sheryl Rieck" ; 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 6:42 AM
> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again
> 
> 
> 
> Sheryl,
> 
> When we went to Mammoth NP in 2006, we could fish for free anywhere
> within the NP boundary.
> 
> Be sure to double check this, but, I believe there are no charges to
> fish in any of the national parks.
> 
> 
> 
> Later,
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Sheryl Rieck [mailto:shri...@cableone.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 12:39 PM
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again
> 
> I would pay higher park user fees gladly if they made some allowance for
> low income people.  I remember when I was a kid, fishing licenses were
> cheap.
> We were not affluent people and my mom and dad could take us fishing
> without a lot of cost.  But, these days, a fishing license is expensive
> for someone who does not make much money.  I gladly pay the cost for
> one, but would prefer that low income families get theirs at a very low
> or no cost.
> Fishing is a great family activity and can help them by allowing them to
> catch several days worth of dinner.  I have very fond memories of our
> many fishing trips.
> 
> Sheryl
> 
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -
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RE: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again

[Sheryl Rieck]

Jacqui,

 

A fishing license is not a park fee.  Fishing licenses are issued by the
Texas Parks and Wildlife Department in Texas and similar such agencies in
other states.  What is being said is that you may not need a fishing license
in a National Park.  But, according to Bill, this could depend on the park.
National Parks are not governed by state laws..

 

Sheryl

 

  _  

From: J. LaRue Bills [mailto:jlrbi...@sonoratx.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 8:19 AM
To: mark.al...@l-3com.com; Sheryl Rieck; texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again

 

Mark, Sheryl & everybody,

I'm trying to figure out if you all are calling a fishing license a fee?

 

Or...

Are you saying that I need a fishing license to fish in a National Park, but
they won't make me pay to get into the park if I show them a fishing license
and my fishing gear? That could be complicated, depending what state my
license is from and what park I'm in... Jacq.

 

 

 

 

 

 

- Original Message - 

From: mark.al...@l-3com.com 

To: J. LaRue   Bills ; Sheryl
  Rieck ; texascavers@texascavers.com 

Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 7:45 AM

Subject: RE: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again

 

There were no other fees, Jacqui, unless you wanted to visit the cave or do
some other tours.

 

We could drive right into the park, pull up to the Green River, and fish
away.

 

Pretty sweet deal.

 

The Mammoth Cave tours were good, but, be sure to visit the American Cave
Association offices

at Hidden River Cave in Horse Cave (right up the road from Cave City).

 

Have Peggy give you the wild cave tour there and experience a LOUD
underground river, as well as blind

crawfish and salamanders.

 

Cool trip and area of the country to visit!

 

 

Later,

 

Mark

 

 


  _  


From: J. LaRue Bills [mailto:jlrbi...@sonoratx.net]
Sent: Wed 5/9/2007 7:37 AM
To: Alman, Mark @ IRP; Sheryl Rieck; texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again

Are you saying that you can fish in National Parks without a license? What
other fee would there be, once you've paid to enter the Park? Jacqui


- Original Message -
From: 
To: "Sheryl Rieck" ; 
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 6:42 AM
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again



Sheryl,

When we went to Mammoth NP in 2006, we could fish for free anywhere
within the NP boundary.

Be sure to double check this, but, I believe there are no charges to
fish in any of the national parks.



Later,

Mark



-Original Message-
From: Sheryl Rieck [mailto:shri...@cableone.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 12:39 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again

I would pay higher park user fees gladly if they made some allowance for
low income people.  I remember when I was a kid, fishing licenses were
cheap.
We were not affluent people and my mom and dad could take us fishing
without a lot of cost.  But, these days, a fishing license is expensive
for someone who does not make much money.  I gladly pay the cost for
one, but would prefer that low income families get theirs at a very low
or no cost.
Fishing is a great family activity and can help them by allowing them to
catch several days worth of dinner.  I have very fond memories of our
many fishing trips.

Sheryl

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Re: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again

[J. LaRue Bills]

Re: [Texascavers] National Park fees - againMark, Sheryl & everybody,
I'm trying to figure out if you all are calling a fishing license a fee?

Or...
Are you saying that I need a fishing license to fish in a National Park, but 
they won't make me pay to get into the park if I show them a fishing license 
and my fishing gear? That could be complicated, depending what state my license 
is from and what park I'm in... Jacq.






  - Original Message - 
  From: mark.al...@l-3com.com 
  To: J. LaRue Bills ; Sheryl Rieck ; texascavers@texascavers.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 7:45 AM
  Subject: RE: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again


  There were no other fees, Jacqui, unless you wanted to visit the cave or do 
some other tours.

  We could drive right into the park, pull up to the Green River, and fish away.

  Pretty sweet deal.

  The Mammoth Cave tours were good, but, be sure to visit the American Cave 
Association offices
  at Hidden River Cave in Horse Cave (right up the road from Cave City).

  Have Peggy give you the wild cave tour there and experience a LOUD 
underground river, as well as blind
  crawfish and salamanders.

  Cool trip and area of the country to visit!


  Later,

  Mark



--
  From: J. LaRue Bills [mailto:jlrbi...@sonoratx.net]
  Sent: Wed 5/9/2007 7:37 AM
  To: Alman, Mark @ IRP; Sheryl Rieck; texascavers@texascavers.com
  Subject: Re: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again


  Are you saying that you can fish in National Parks without a license? What
  other fee would there be, once you've paid to enter the Park? Jacqui


  - Original Message -
  From: 
  To: "Sheryl Rieck" ; 
  Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 6:42 AM
  Subject: RE: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again



  Sheryl,

  When we went to Mammoth NP in 2006, we could fish for free anywhere
  within the NP boundary.

  Be sure to double check this, but, I believe there are no charges to
  fish in any of the national parks.



  Later,

  Mark



  -Original Message-
  From: Sheryl Rieck [mailto:shri...@cableone.net]
  Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 12:39 PM
  To: texascavers@texascavers.com
  Subject: RE: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again

  I would pay higher park user fees gladly if they made some allowance for
  low income people.  I remember when I was a kid, fishing licenses were
  cheap.
  We were not affluent people and my mom and dad could take us fishing
  without a lot of cost.  But, these days, a fishing license is expensive
  for someone who does not make much money.  I gladly pay the cost for
  one, but would prefer that low income families get theirs at a very low
  or no cost.
  Fishing is a great family activity and can help them by allowing them to
  catch several days worth of dinner.  I have very fond memories of our
  many fishing trips.

  Sheryl

  -
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Re: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again

[Bill Bentley]

Big Bend National Park

$20.00 entry fee good for 7 days($40.00 for a yearly pass Jan to Dec).

$10.00 Back country camping permit as of October 2006.

3.52 a gallon for gas in the park.

Get pretty expensive for just a weekend trip!

Bill

Quoting "J. LaRue Bills" :


Are you saying that you can fish in National Parks without a license?
What other fee would there be, once you've paid to enter the Park?
Jacqui


- Original Message - From: 
To: "Sheryl Rieck" ; 
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 6:42 AM
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again



Sheryl,

When we went to Mammoth NP in 2006, we could fish for free anywhere
within the NP boundary.

Be sure to double check this, but, I believe there are no charges to
fish in any of the national parks.



Later,

Mark



-Original Message-
From: Sheryl Rieck [mailto:shri...@cableone.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 12:39 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again

I would pay higher park user fees gladly if they made some allowance for
low income people.  I remember when I was a kid, fishing licenses were
cheap.
We were not affluent people and my mom and dad could take us fishing
without a lot of cost.  But, these days, a fishing license is expensive
for someone who does not make much money.  I gladly pay the cost for
one, but would prefer that low income families get theirs at a very low
or no cost.
Fishing is a great family activity and can help them by allowing them to
catch several days worth of dinner.  I have very fond memories of our
many fishing trips.

Sheryl

-
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RE: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again

[mark . alman]

There were no other fees, Jacqui, unless you wanted to visit the cave or do 
some other tours.
 
We could drive right into the park, pull up to the Green River, and fish away.
 
Pretty sweet deal.
 
The Mammoth Cave tours were good, but, be sure to visit the American Cave 
Association offices
at Hidden River Cave in Horse Cave (right up the road from Cave City).
 
Have Peggy give you the wild cave tour there and experience a LOUD underground 
river, as well as blind
crawfish and salamanders.
 
Cool trip and area of the country to visit!
 
 
Later,
 
Mark
 



From: J. LaRue Bills [mailto:jlrbi...@sonoratx.net]
Sent: Wed 5/9/2007 7:37 AM
To: Alman, Mark @ IRP; Sheryl Rieck; texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again



Are you saying that you can fish in National Parks without a license? What
other fee would there be, once you've paid to enter the Park? Jacqui


- Original Message -
From: 
To: "Sheryl Rieck" ; 
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 6:42 AM
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again



Sheryl,

When we went to Mammoth NP in 2006, we could fish for free anywhere
within the NP boundary.

Be sure to double check this, but, I believe there are no charges to
fish in any of the national parks.



Later,

Mark



-Original Message-
From: Sheryl Rieck [mailto:shri...@cableone.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 12:39 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again

I would pay higher park user fees gladly if they made some allowance for
low income people.  I remember when I was a kid, fishing licenses were
cheap.
We were not affluent people and my mom and dad could take us fishing
without a lot of cost.  But, these days, a fishing license is expensive
for someone who does not make much money.  I gladly pay the cost for
one, but would prefer that low income families get theirs at a very low
or no cost.
Fishing is a great family activity and can help them by allowing them to
catch several days worth of dinner.  I have very fond memories of our
many fishing trips.

Sheryl

-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com  
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
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RE: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again

[Sheryl Rieck]

It used to be that if you lived in a town that had a local lake, you didn't
have to have a license to fish there.  I don't know if that is still true.
That was 25 years ago.  

I need to check with the National Seashore and see what they say since it is
a national park.  Now, I am all curious.

Sheryl

-Original Message-
From: J. LaRue Bills [mailto:jlrbi...@sonoratx.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 7:38 AM
To: mark.al...@l-3com.com; Sheryl Rieck; texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again

Are you saying that you can fish in National Parks without a license? What 
other fee would there be, once you've paid to enter the Park? Jacqui


- Original Message - 
From: 
To: "Sheryl Rieck" ; 
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 6:42 AM
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again



Sheryl,

When we went to Mammoth NP in 2006, we could fish for free anywhere
within the NP boundary.

Be sure to double check this, but, I believe there are no charges to
fish in any of the national parks.



Later,

Mark



-Original Message-
From: Sheryl Rieck [mailto:shri...@cableone.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 12:39 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again

I would pay higher park user fees gladly if they made some allowance for
low income people.  I remember when I was a kid, fishing licenses were
cheap.
We were not affluent people and my mom and dad could take us fishing
without a lot of cost.  But, these days, a fishing license is expensive
for someone who does not make much money.  I gladly pay the cost for
one, but would prefer that low income families get theirs at a very low
or no cost.
Fishing is a great family activity and can help them by allowing them to
catch several days worth of dinner.  I have very fond memories of our
many fishing trips.

Sheryl

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Re: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again

[J. LaRue Bills]

Are you saying that you can fish in National Parks without a license? What 
other fee would there be, once you've paid to enter the Park? Jacqui



- Original Message - 
From: 

To: "Sheryl Rieck" ; 
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 6:42 AM
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again



Sheryl,

When we went to Mammoth NP in 2006, we could fish for free anywhere
within the NP boundary.

Be sure to double check this, but, I believe there are no charges to
fish in any of the national parks.



Later,

Mark



-Original Message-
From: Sheryl Rieck [mailto:shri...@cableone.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 12:39 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again

I would pay higher park user fees gladly if they made some allowance for
low income people.  I remember when I was a kid, fishing licenses were
cheap.
We were not affluent people and my mom and dad could take us fishing
without a lot of cost.  But, these days, a fishing license is expensive
for someone who does not make much money.  I gladly pay the cost for
one, but would prefer that low income families get theirs at a very low
or no cost.
Fishing is a great family activity and can help them by allowing them to
catch several days worth of dinner.  I have very fond memories of our
many fishing trips.

Sheryl

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RE: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again

[mark . alman]

 
Sheryl,

When we went to Mammoth NP in 2006, we could fish for free anywhere
within the NP boundary.

Be sure to double check this, but, I believe there are no charges to
fish in any of the national parks.



Later,

Mark



-Original Message-
From: Sheryl Rieck [mailto:shri...@cableone.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 12:39 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again

I would pay higher park user fees gladly if they made some allowance for
low income people.  I remember when I was a kid, fishing licenses were
cheap.
We were not affluent people and my mom and dad could take us fishing
without a lot of cost.  But, these days, a fishing license is expensive
for someone who does not make much money.  I gladly pay the cost for
one, but would prefer that low income families get theirs at a very low
or no cost.
Fishing is a great family activity and can help them by allowing them to
catch several days worth of dinner.  I have very fond memories of our
many fishing trips.

Sheryl

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RE: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again

[Ted Samsel]

What? No one poaches anymore? 

Ted

"That shore is some fresh venison.."

-Original Message-
>From: Sheryl Rieck 
>Sent: May 8, 2007 1:39 PM
>To: texascavers@texascavers.com
>Subject: RE: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again
>
>I would pay higher park user fees gladly if they made some allowance for low
>income people.  I remember when I was a kid, fishing licenses were cheap.
>We were not affluent people and my mom and dad could take us fishing without
>a lot of cost.  But, these days, a fishing license is expensive for someone
>who does not make much money.  I gladly pay the cost for one, but would
>prefer that low income families get theirs at a very low or no cost.
>Fishing is a great family activity and can help them by allowing them to
>catch several days worth of dinner.  I have very fond memories of our many
>fishing trips.
>
>Sheryl
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Fritz Holt [mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com] 
>Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 11:29 AM
>To: Ted Samsel; texascavers@texascavers.com
>Subject: RE: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again
>
>Ted,
>I agree with you that park user fees should be increased as it is still
>a bargain for what they offer but think that some concession should be
>made for those low income families who may be adversely affected. I just
>don't have a plan that would not discriminate and would increase
>available funds for maintenance and adequate pay for park employees who
>are understaffed and probably underpaid. Low income and minority tax
>paying citizens already seem to be the primary users of our state parks,
>especially the parks nearest large metropolitan areas. The main problem
>is obviously our elected legislature who do not allocate the fair amount
>(all) of the tax dollars that are generated from taxes on fishing and
>hunting that were originally put in place solely for this purpose. The
>voting public should have EASIER access to how some of these legislators
>vote on this funding and it should be more highly publicized by the
>interested parties. Then we could send them a message.
>Fritz 
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Ted Samsel [mailto:tbsam...@infionline.net] 
>Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 12:41 PM
>To: texascavers@texascavers.com
>Subject: Re: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again
>
>Again, NPS has been the red-headed stepchild of the DOI for decades.
>Funds have been cut as a matter of course no matter who is elected. It's
>the left hind tit of the pork barrel. 
>
>With that attitude, you might as well sink a few gas or oil wells in the
>parks (if there's oil there..)
>
>Ted
>
>-Original Message-
>>From: David Locklear 
>>Sent: May 6, 2007 10:27 PM
>>To: texascavers@texascavers.com
>>Subject: [Texascavers] National Park fees - again
>>
>>I know we talked about this a while back, but it is in the news
>>again.
>>
>>It is my opinion, that "user fees" are a good idea for government
>>programs.
>>
>>I am self-employed and I see how all the money comes in and goes
>>out of my business.It frustates me and probably others, that money
>>given to government programs is not always used efficiently.
>>
>>I believe the private sector could run some of the parks better than
>>the government can.( Look at how commercial caves are managed
>>versus how a government cave is managed. )
>>
>>It seems obvious that user fees should reflect inflation and the value
>>of the product.Look at stamps.Sometimes there is a rate
>>increase.Do you buy less stamps?
>>
>>I like the idea of life-memberships, annual car passes, and anything
>>to make the customer happy.
>>
>>I think most people know when they accept a government job, that they
>>are going to make less money than they are going to make working
>>for a oil corporation or bank, etc.But they should still be paid
>fairly,
>>especially for their over-time.
>>
>>So I can see why user fees need to increase.   ( Look at what it cost
>>to get into an up-scale nightclub in large cities on New Year's Eve.
>It
>>is sometimes $ 1,000, and you will have to pass their test to
>>get in. )Or to park at a NBA championship?
>>
>>In 2 or 3 Houston city parks, it cost money to park your car everyday,
>>except Sunday.   And the fines are steep.
>>
>>It is also my opinion, that the cost of living has never been higher,
>>( and as hard on the poor ),
>>but also certain parts of our quality of life have greatly improved.
>>
>>David
>>
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>
>
>http://home.infionline.net/~tbsamsel/
>
>-
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>
>
>

[Texascavers] OT - Mount Everest

[David Locklear]

This is sort of an annual reminder,

Mid-May is the time
to watch the news from Mount Everest and other nearby
peaks.

http://www.everestnews.com/

For the next 3 weeks, you will see exciting stories about people
making it to the top, and a few who will never make it back down.

Today there was one such story:

http://www.everestnews.com/stories2007/dhau05082007.htm

In my opinion, it beats watching the NBA, or Nascar.

David Locklear

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