[NMCAVER] Fort Stanton Cave Tours

[Lee H. Skinner]

What does anyone here know about the people behind this website?

http://www.fortstantoncavetours.com/

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[NMCAVER] Carlsbad Caverns formation for sale on Ebay

[Lois Manno]

Hello all,

For the second time, this individual has listed a 250-pound chunk of 
speleothem material on Ebay for sale. He claims it's from a 
"privately-owned section of Carlsbad Caverns." I doubt it's actually 
from the caverns, more likely it's a piece from Cottonwood or someplace 
similar. I have notified the NPS, but they are so slow to react, I 
hoped that some pressure might be put on this person by the caving 
community to get this item removed from Ebay. Perhaps informing him 
that the FCRPA makes it a crime to sell what he claims to be selling 
would do the trick.


Thank you for your help.

Lois Manno



eBay sent this message to Lois Manno (speleoartist).
Your registered name is included to show this message originated from 
eBay. Learn more.
Good news. You've got another chance to win item Massive Carlsbad 
Caverns Calcite Stalactite 125lbs

Hi Lois,

Your watched item has been relisted. Don't let it slip away this time.

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Current price:
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[Texascavers] book review: Bill Cuddington

[Mixon Bill]

Vertical Bill: The Story of Bill Cuddington and the Development of  
Vertical Caving in America. David W. Hughes. National Speleological  
Society, Huntsville, Alabama; 2008. ISBN 978-1-879961-29-6. 5 by 8.5  
inches, 392 pages, hardbound. $32 (discount for NSS members, see http://nssbookstore.org 
).


While single-rope-technique for vertical caving did not originate with  
Bill Cuddington, it was definitely Bill who first pursued it, in the  
face of considerable doubts by the caving establishment, and made it  
popular. While others were exploring pits in Virginia and West  
Virginia using rope ladders or windlasses and other hauling systems,  
Bill started using body rappels and prusik knots. He was responsible  
for testing and promoting various innovations and in fact invented the  
steel rappel spool, but he himself sometimes stuck by the old  
standbys. In 1967, a couple of years after I'd bought my Jumars, he  
used three prusik knots to climb out of Golondrinas during the first  
trip that descended that pit.


This book covers the history of Cuddington's caving career and the  
development of United States SRT up through the middle-to-late  
sixties, when the rappel rack and Mitchell climbing systems were  
invented. Since then, the rope-walker climbing system has become more  
popular for yoyoing deep pits, and the European "frog" system has  
become popular for deep, multi-drop systems. But the principles remain  
the same.


Black-and-white photos illustrate the text throughout. Many of them  
are of considerable historical interest. Included are several from the  
first descent of Golondrinas. The photos, and indeed the amount of  
interesting detail in the text itself, testify to the amount of  
research that went into the book.


The book has forty-four short chapters full of tiny paragraphs, so it  
isn't too surprising that the text is a bit choppy and sometimes  
disorienting. But it is still a good read. There are extensive notes  
on sources and a reference list that starts, mysteriously, with a  
French dictionary. While there are a small number of missing commas  
and dangling participles, the editing and production are much superior  
to most NSS books. About my only real gripe, besides the lack of an  
index to help you find again one of the many caves or cavers  
mentioned, is that the inside margins are too narrow.--Bill Mixon

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Re: [ot_caving] interesting uninsured drivers

[David]

What I meant to emphasize was, it would be great if we lived in a world where
life was fair and just. Socialism can NOT work in the real world,
because there is such a large number of people that are dishonest or lazy,
or evil.

The reality of the world is that it all comes down to survival of the fittest.

And in the modern computer age we live in, the fittest will be those that are
not only computer literate, but eagerly willing to multitask in a
hectic stressful
environment.

Many of the uneducated poor people are not going to be able to find
jobs in the rapidly
changing world we live in, especially if they are not willing to
compromise their
cultural beliefs - like stopping work 5 times a day to bow your head
in a certain
direction, or take siesta breaks in the afternoon, or 3 week vacations in the
summertime.


On a related note,

Just today, Adobe released a version of .pdf files that accept video.  I
am not sure what that means yet, but it sure does sound like it could
have huge potential.Those that capitalize on this will make money.
And those that never learn it ,will be unable to find jobs in that market.

David

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RE: [ot_caving] interesting uninsured drivers

[Fritz Holt]

David,
Plan ahead to avoid this problem. When you have paid the price once for having 
been towed, we try very hard not to let it happen again. I have been there also.

Silly me, I always thought that there were alternative means of transportation 
for those who could not afford to own and operate a motor vehicle. It's called 
public transportation and paid for by all taxpayers.

While not perfect, I think that in most instances we have a fair and just 
system. Your brick stacking episode may be an exception.

Your over simplification of how the world should work seems to smack of 
Socialism to me and if one of the current Democratic candidates is elected 
president, a move in this direction is most probable.

Fritz

-Original Message-
From: David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 2:28 PM
To: o...@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [ot_caving] interesting uninsured drivers

What if your car gets towed, after you have paid your insurance?

It will be very difficult, and a hardship for many to try to get their
vehicle back.

I know that there are a lot of losers out there that drive without insurance.

But I also know that there are thousands of hard-working tax-paying citizens
that are struggling day by day to find money to keep their heads above water.

I believe there has got to be a system that is more fair and just.
 If we can
sell laser guided missiles to Kuwait, then can't we find the solution to this
problem.

In my opinion our government bodies - federal, local, state, etc. are
beating the poor man down to where these people can't get back up on
their own.

I think the effect of Big Brother is especially more noticeable in the
Houston area than it would be in Midland or Amarillo.   A poor
person living in the suburbs of Houston, has
only one way to get to work and that is by car, and the cost of going
to work is a large
amount of money compared to their pay.   I can't see driving as a
privilege here,
but as an only means of survival just like water or air.

A person should be able to have a simple insurance policy that covers
their health,
their life, their family, their house, their car all in one package
that is universally
affordable.   It should be the same for every human on the planet - even
Bill Gates or Warren Buffet.


David Locklear

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RE: [ot_caving] interesting uninsured drivers

[Fritz Holt]

My reply to some of David's lines.

The injustices caused by uninsured drivers who are at fault in an auto accident 
are many. This new plan for a check of auto liability is a good idea and should 
be almost instantaneous upon receipt of paid premiums for new and renewal 
policies. Not having your "receipt" or evidence of liability insurance, while 
the consequences are not as severe, is akin to "forgetting" that you had a 
weapon in your briefcase at the airport terminal.

Anyone can "qualify" for basic liability which effective April 1, 2008 (not an 
April Fool) was increased by the Texas legislature to 25,000/50,000/25,000 
bodily injury per person, per accident and property damage per accident. If 
your policy has not renewed or been endorsed since then, insurance carriers are 
automatically providing the higher minimum limits for their policyholders at no 
additional charge. Many drivers carry higher than the minimum required limits. 
Depending on credit, loss histories and usage, premiums do vary but ones 
financial status does not directly affect the premium paid. All insurance 
companies are now required by law to offer a monthly pay plan for automobile 
insurance which eases the burden of paying a large premium all at once.

Hopefully, this plan will "end up" protecting all of us from irresponsible 
drivers who are operating a vehicle illegally. They should be made to exit the 
vehicle and officers then have it impounded. Operating a vehicle without a 
valid driver's license should require similar tactics.

The branch of government that is robbing the people and trying to make them all 
a lot poorer lies in the northeast section of our country.

I for one would hate to think what Houston and all other cities would be like 
without the police. Many are afraid of the police and for good reason. Many are 
even citizens. Responsible, law abiding citizens should have no fear of the 
police. Unfortunately, many of our citizens do nor fit this description.

There is more opportunity in the USA and especially Texas than anywhere on the 
planet but there will always be those who choose not to take advantage of it 
and blame it on bad luck.

I feel so high and mighty that I hate stepping down off of this soap box.

Geezer



From: mark.al...@l-3com.com [mailto:mark.al...@l-3com.com]
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 1:37 PM
To: David; o...@texascavers.com
Subject: RE: [ot_caving] interesting uninsured drivers

David,  I'll comment below:


From: David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com]
Sent: Mon 6/2/2008 1:19 PM
To: o...@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [ot_caving] interesting uninsured drivers

I would be concerned that this plan is not implemented fairly.

What happens if you just renewed your insurance and can't
convince the officer that it has been paid?

Pay your bills before it expires. If you are pulled over and towed, show the 
judge where you had insurance on that date. It happened to me. I paid, but 
forgot to put my new card in the car. I got a ticket, but it was dismissed 
after I showed proof.

 What if you left
the receipt at home in your briefcase?



See above. You must have proof on you.



What if the insurance
office can not be reached by phone and the officer doe not
believe that you paid.

See above.

Is the officer more likely to believe
a white man driving a new car or a black man with a busted
tail light driving a rusty 1979 Plymouth sedan?

Don't even go there. This is not a racial issue. It's a responsibility issue.

Or what about the thousands of poor people that can't qualify for
even basic liability.

Insurance for liability is around $35 a month. Driving is not a right. It's a 
privilege. If you can't afford insurance, don't drive.

   The insurance companies stick it to the
poor people who walk in off the street with no insurance and no
credit, especially if these people can't afford the policies
down payment.

See above.

Rich people have no problem paying for car registration, car
inspection, car insurance, car maintenance, $ 3.50 gasoline.
But for poor people, this is a major portion of their paycheck, and
for many it is more than their income.Yet they have to have
a car to get to work, or to take their family to the doctor, etc.



Oh, boo hoo!

See above.

I am concerned that this plan will end up being just another
way to rob the poor people.

See above.

We don't need to live in a police state where citizens are
scared of the police.This policy will unintentionally cause
poor people to dislike the police even more.

If you're obeying the law (that means having insurance), no problem.

I'm a big advocate of personal responsibility, David. You will get no sympathy 
from me.

We are becoming an aristocratic culture just like in the early
days before the Russian Revolution.

We're talking car insurance, David. Not Bolsheviks.

If one doesn't like this, walk, take a bus, or ride a bike!

I'm tired of payin

RE: [ot_caving] interesting uninsured drivers

[mark . alman]

I agree there should be a better way to get insurance, David, and there's a 
simple answer:
 
Insurance by the gallon or mile.
 
Whenever you fill up, insurance is figured into the price of gas. The more you 
drive, the more insurance you'll buy and need.
 
The only obstacle: Insurance companies, trial lawyers, and their lobbyists in 
Austin.
 
This issue has come up several times in Austin. Any guess as to why it's shot 
down time after time?
 
It works in several other states.
 
 
 
Mark
 
 
 



From: David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com]
Sent: Mon 6/2/2008 2:28 PM
To: o...@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [ot_caving] interesting uninsured drivers



What if your car gets towed, after you have paid your insurance?

It will be very difficult, and a hardship for many to try to get their
vehicle back.

I know that there are a lot of losers out there that drive without insurance.

But I also know that there are thousands of hard-working tax-paying citizens
that are struggling day by day to find money to keep their heads above water.

I believe there has got to be a system that is more fair and just.
 If we can
sell laser guided missiles to Kuwait, then can't we find the solution to this
problem.

In my opinion our government bodies - federal, local, state, etc. are
beating the poor man down to where these people can't get back up on
their own.

I think the effect of Big Brother is especially more noticeable in the
Houston area than it would be in Midland or Amarillo.   A poor
person living in the suburbs of Houston, has
only one way to get to work and that is by car, and the cost of going
to work is a large
amount of money compared to their pay.   I can't see driving as a
privilege here,
but as an only means of survival just like water or air.

A person should be able to have a simple insurance policy that covers
their health,
their life, their family, their house, their car all in one package
that is universally
affordable.   It should be the same for every human on the planet - even
Bill Gates or Warren Buffet.


David Locklear

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Re: [ot_caving] interesting uninsured drivers

[David]

What if your car gets towed, after you have paid your insurance?

It will be very difficult, and a hardship for many to try to get their
vehicle back.

I know that there are a lot of losers out there that drive without insurance.

But I also know that there are thousands of hard-working tax-paying citizens
that are struggling day by day to find money to keep their heads above water.

I believe there has got to be a system that is more fair and just.
 If we can
sell laser guided missiles to Kuwait, then can't we find the solution to this
problem.

In my opinion our government bodies - federal, local, state, etc. are
beating the poor man down to where these people can't get back up on
their own.

I think the effect of Big Brother is especially more noticeable in the
Houston area than it would be in Midland or Amarillo.   A poor
person living in the suburbs of Houston, has
only one way to get to work and that is by car, and the cost of going
to work is a large
amount of money compared to their pay.   I can't see driving as a
privilege here,
but as an only means of survival just like water or air.

A person should be able to have a simple insurance policy that covers
their health,
their life, their family, their house, their car all in one package
that is universally
affordable.   It should be the same for every human on the planet - even
Bill Gates or Warren Buffet.


David Locklear

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RE: [ot_caving] interesting uninsured drivers

[mark . alman]

David,  I'll comment below:



From: David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com]
Sent: Mon 6/2/2008 1:19 PM
To: o...@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [ot_caving] interesting uninsured drivers



I would be concerned that this plan is not implemented fairly.

What happens if you just renewed your insurance and can't
convince the officer that it has been paid? 

Pay your bills before it expires. If you are pulled over and towed, show the 
judge where you had insurance on that date. It happened to me. I paid, but 
forgot to put my new card in the car. I got a ticket, but it was dismissed 
after I showed proof.

 What if you left
the receipt at home in your briefcase?

 

See above. You must have proof on you.

 

What if the insurance
office can not be reached by phone and the officer doe not
believe that you paid.  

See above.

Is the officer more likely to believe
a white man driving a new car or a black man with a busted
tail light driving a rusty 1979 Plymouth sedan?

Don't even go there. This is not a racial issue. It's a responsibility issue.

Or what about the thousands of poor people that can't qualify for
even basic liability.  

Insurance for liability is around $35 a month. Driving is not a right. It's a 
privilege. If you can't afford insurance, don't drive.

   The insurance companies stick it to the
poor people who walk in off the street with no insurance and no
credit, especially if these people can't afford the policies
down payment.

See above.

Rich people have no problem paying for car registration, car
inspection, car insurance, car maintenance, $ 3.50 gasoline.
But for poor people, this is a major portion of their paycheck, and
for many it is more than their income.Yet they have to have
a car to get to work, or to take their family to the doctor, etc.

 

Oh, boo hoo!

See above.

I am concerned that this plan will end up being just another
way to rob the poor people.

See above.

We don't need to live in a police state where citizens are
scared of the police.This policy will unintentionally cause
poor people to dislike the police even more.

If you're obeying the law (that means having insurance), no problem.

I'm a big advocate of personal responsibility, David. You will get no sympathy 
from me.

We are becoming an aristocratic culture just like in the early
days before the Russian Revolution.

We're talking car insurance, David. Not Bolsheviks. 

If one doesn't like this, walk, take a bus, or ride a bike!

I'm tired of paying thru the nose for services due to scofflaws.

 

Mark

Re: [ot_caving] interesting uninsured drivers

[David]

I would be concerned that this plan is not implemented fairly.

What happens if you just renewed your insurance and can't
convince the officer that it has been paid?  What if you left
the receipt at home in your briefcase?What if the insurance
office can not be reached by phone and the officer doe not
believe that you paid.  Is the officer more likely to believe
a white man driving a new car or a black man with a busted
tail light driving a rusty 1979 Plymouth sedan?

Or what about the thousands of poor people that can't qualify for
even basic liability. The insurance companies stick it to the
poor people who walk in off the street with no insurance and no
credit, especially if these people can't afford the policies
down payment.

Rich people have no problem paying for car registration, car
inspection, car insurance, car maintenance, $ 3.50 gasoline.
But for poor people, this is a major portion of their paycheck, and
for many it is more than their income.Yet they have to have
a car to get to work, or to take their family to the doctor, etc.

I am concerned that this plan will end up being just another
way to rob the poor people.

We don't need to live in a police state where citizens are
scared of the police.This policy will unintentionally cause
poor people to dislike the police even more.

We are becoming an aristocratic culture just like in the early
days before the Russian Revolution.

I believe that although the current system is flawed, that this new
system will backfire.   Much like the 55 mph speed limit back
in the 70's.

David Locklear

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RE: [Texascavers] the list

[mark . alman]

D'oh!

You're right, Bill.

You're OK.

I have sent out a clarification explaining what I meant.

It's funny how one can read something 3 or 4 times and still not catch
the obvious.

Hopefully, I've explained the list more clearly and sorry about the
confusion.


Mark





-Original Message-
From: Mixon Bill [mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com] 
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 12:57 PM
To: Cavers Texas
Subject: [Texascavers] the list

Wait a minute. How is one supposed to tell from that list whether he  
is a paid-up TSA member, if it also contains names of all the people  
who have "ever attended a caving function in the Lone Star state"? And  
why am I not on the list, when I should be in both categories? Want to  
try that again?-- Bill Mixon
--
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
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[ot_caving] computer news - medical related

[David]

Here is a story about how a fancy desktop computer
can be used in a real world application to replace a more advanced
special purpose computer.

 http://www.tomshardware.com/news/PC-supercomputer,5513.html

It is related to CT scans of the body.It is apparently more
common now for a
doctor to diagnosis a patient after having a CT scan than it was a few
years ago.

Hopefully in 10 years, these scans will be much less expensive, and
it will be more cost efficient to do scans sooner, than later when a problem
is suspected.



I was inserted into a CT scanner 2 weeks ago. I had 2 scans in the
abdominal area - 1 without the iodine injection, and 1 with.And 2
similar scans in the pelvis area.
I would have like to have had the lungs and the head scanned, since I was
already in the machine with all the barium fluid and iodine
injections, but that
would have been at least another 2 thousand probably.

David Locklear

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RE: [Texascavers] The TSA Appreciates Your Thoughts. Now, we need action from YOU! Clarification.

[mark . alman]

It appears I may have caused some confusion. Please let me clarify.
 

 
**If your name is on this list, you are NOT current and need to pay 
your dues.   ***

 
 
If you're unable to find your name, you're either paid up and "in good 
standing", or the TSA has no record of you having ever existed.
 
 
Hopefully, it's not the latter.


If you're in doubt, drop me a line and I'll check it out for you.
 
 
Later,
 
Mark
 
 
 


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Darilek Glenn
Davila  Lee
Davila  Robert
Davis   Kimberly
Daw Patty
Dawson  Glenda (Gandalf)
Deal    Dwight
Dean    Lee Ann
DeCarli Linnet
Delk    Karen
DeLuna  David
DeLuna  Joann
Derado  Samuel
Devine  Brynn
DiTullio    Cindy
DiTullio    Stephen
Dolan   Nick
Dong    Laura
Dooley  George and Kay
Dougan  David
Doversberger    Terry
Downs   Stephanie
Dreiss  Jimmy
Dreiss  Terri
Droms   Yvonne
DuBose  Sara
Dunning Joanna
Dunning Randall
Earl    Wade
Earlandson  Ralph
Ediger  Gill
Elliott Jimmy
Ellison Dale
Elwell  Steve
Engelberger David
Eptine  Katelyn
Ervin   Nicole
Estes   James
Evans   Brian
Evans   Dan
Evans   Janie
Evans   Karen
Evans   T. R.
Fant    Enora
Fant    Jerry
Feely   Jim
Fell    Justin
Fell    Mica
Fenner  Chad
Fielding    Lynn
Fieseler    Ron
Figg    Todd
Flannigan   Mike
Fleming Stephen
Flint   Eric
Flood   Drew
Flood   Stacie
Florer  Tom
Fogarty John
Ford    Mary Jane
Formanek    Hans
Forshaw Hayley
Foxhall Don
Foxhall Naome
Fraga   Ron
FrazIer Claire
Freeby  Bruce
Freeman James
Freeman Rae
Frey    Carlann
Frey    Joe
Fromen  Carl
Fulkerson   Richard
Furman  Joe
Furman  Michael
Gale    John
Gaubert Adam
Gary    Marcus
Gary    Robin
Garza   Ernest
Gatewood    Jim
Gatlin  Tayler
Gayley  Andrew
Geery   Patrick
Geist   Gregg
Gelsone Ed
Gers    David E.
Gibbard Kristin
Giles   Clark
Giles   Susie
Gilpin  Dennis
Goerdt  Billy
Goerlitz    Dennis
Goggin  Keith
Goggin  Lisa
Goldsmith   Glen
Goldsmith   Tammy
Gomez   Beatriz
Gonzalez    Brett
Gonzalez-Luna   Rodolfo (Fofo)
Goodbar Katherine
Goodman Alan
Graham  Sherry

[Texascavers] the list

[Mixon Bill]

Wait a minute. How is one supposed to tell from that list whether he  
is a paid-up TSA member, if it also contains names of all the people  
who have "ever attended a caving function in the Lone Star state"? And  
why am I not on the list, when I should be in both categories? Want to  
try that again?-- Bill Mixon

--
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
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RE: [ot_caving] interesting uninsured drivers

[mark . alman]

It's about time!
 
I hope they tow them, as well!
 
My sons have had accidents with three different uninsured drivers.
 
It wasn't my sons' faults, either.
 
I'm tired of folks like this.
 
Ticket 'em and tow 'em!
 
 
Mark
 
 
 
 



From: qui...@clearwire.net [mailto:qui...@clearwire.net]
Sent: Mon 6/2/2008 12:45 PM
To: o...@texascavers.com
Subject: [ot_caving] interesting uninsured drivers 


AUSTIN, TX - Texas Police officers will have a new tool to get uninsured 
drivers off the road.

Officers in Austin will start using the new insurance 
  database next week.

It will automatically notify officers whether a driver has valid car insurance, 
just by entering the license plate number into the system.

The insurance database works with information from other databases and is 
funded by a portion of a $1 fee when you pay your car registration.

The Texas Department of Insurance says about one in five drivers is uninsured.

[ot_caving] interesting uninsured drivers

[quinta]

AUSTIN, TX - Texas Police officers will have a new tool to get uninsured 
drivers off the road.

Officers in Austin will start using the new insurance database next week.

It will automatically notify officers whether a driver has valid car insurance, 
just by entering the license plate number into the system.

The insurance database works with information from other databases and is 
funded by a portion of a $1 fee when you pay your car registration.

The Texas Department of Insurance says about one in five drivers is uninsured.

RE: [ot_caving] DVD review - cave related

[Louise Power]

As you may or may not know, there's another "Journey..." movie coming July 11. 
According to IMDb, was filmed in Iceland and Quebec. > Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 
09:35:41 -0500> From: dlocklea...@gmail.com> To: o...@texascavers.com> Subject: 
[ot_caving] DVD review - cave related> > "Journey to the Center of the Earth"> 
> http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51G9PWES3QL._SS500_.jpg> > this is a 
review of a DVD from 2004 of a movie> filmed in 1999 and made for cable TV.> > 
There are several real cave scenes in this movie. One of them appears> to be 3 
people rappelling simultaneously ( as silhouettes ) into a large deep> tag-like 
pit.> > Most of the cave scenes appear to be artificial studio made caves.> > I 
liked this movie. In some ways it resembles the "Land of the Lost"> TV series 
for kids back in the 70's. But that is why the critics hated it.> > I thought 
the actors all played their parts very well. The graphics were> good, but 
considered the low end of modern CGI.> > I only paid $ 7 for the DVD at Fry's.> 
> The studio failed greatly by naming this movie "Journey to the Center of> the 
Earth." Other than their quest to go deep underground, there> almost no 
similarity to the story of Jules Verne's version.> The movie should have been 
called "The Caverns of Tongariro."> > 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Tongariro> > It is obvious that this movie 
has an Australian/ New Zealand flavor to> the story, but I liked that.> > It is 
easy to see why everybody hated this movie as the plot was weak, however,> if 
you can overlook that, and sit back and take it for what it is, then I think> 
it is enjoyable, but young teenagers will hate the cheezy graphics and adults> 
familiar with the old story will wonder why it is so different from the 
original> story.> > Here are just some of the flaws:> > The 4 cave explorers in 
1876 explored the caverns way past 6 miles of> depth, with just 4 wind-up 
rechargeable electric hand-held lanterns. They> were extremely unprepared for 
such a journey. The girl wore a dress> the whole time in the cave and they 
nevered seemed to get dirty. The> first pit was about 3,000 feet deep. They 
each had their own manilla> rope for the rappel, yet when they left for the 
hike, they only carried 2 or> 3 short coils of rope. They never showed the 
rappeling device or> harness, but it appeared they were using a double rope to 
rappel, thus> they each had over 6,000 feet of rope. At the bottom and through> 
the remainder of the trip, they still carried their coils of rope.> > They 
ascended from the deep underground to the surface through a> water portal in 
just a few seconds without getting the bends or any> other side effect, and the 
girl couldn't even swim.> > They also dropped all their gear and packs into the 
deep pits without> any breakage.> > They could not have gone more than 10 miles 
of depth, probably more> like 6 and 1/2 half. Yet, they believed they were at 
the center of the> earth. The cave passages that they walked on were mostly> 
horizontal and dry.> > But if you can ignore all of that and more, you might 
like it.> > Most of the actors have their own Wikipedia page,> 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryan_Brown> > 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treat_Williams> > 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petra_Jared> > These actors could potentially be 
in future movies. For example,> Bryan Brown is in the upcoming "Australia" with 
Nicole Kidman.> So if they were to every become famous,> it would be 
interesting to go back and watch this DVD if you haven't already.> > David> > > 
Ref:> > http://www.wsu.edu/~delahoyd/j.c.o.e.1999.html> > 
-> Give 
this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
ot-unsubscr...@texascavers.com> For additional commands, e-mail: 
ot-h...@texascavers.com> 

[Texascavers] The TSA Appreciates Your Thoughts. Now, we need action from YOU!

[mark . alman]

All,

I echo John's thoughts here and believe we've had a useful,
constructive, and positive discussion in regard to how to disperse the
~$8400 in the TSA Land Fund.

Everyone's thoughts and suggestions have been welcomed.

BUT, in order to put your desires and words into ACTION, you need to do
the following:


* First you must attend the TSA meeting that will be held at TCR,
usually on  Sunday morning, where we will vote on this issue.

* Secondly, and my main objective here, you MUST be a registered TSA
member  in good standing (read "dues paid up") in order to vote and to
receive the next (and future) TEXAS CAVERS, the current one is
being printed   as I write this!


If you could take the time to peruse the rather lengthy list below, you
can see if you're paid up or not, or were ever a member.

If you ever attended a caving function in the Lone Star state, you're
also on this list.

If you're currently not a member in good standing, please don't despair
and wail and gnash your teeth.

There's no reason to be a member of the unwashed masses. There's still
hope!


Join the TSA for a measly $20 (cheap!) at: 

http://www.cavetexas.org/TSA/join.html


While you're at it, join the NSS, the TCMA, the TCC, the TSS, and any
other worthy group you see listed in the "Links" section.

Also, if you know some of the folks listed below and they do not have
email, please contact them and beg them to join or rejoin.

Finally, if y'all could take this list to your respective Grotto
meetings and encourage folks to join or re-up, that would be great!


Thanks and have a great summer and enjoy the next TC, coming to a mail
box near you!


Sincerely,

Mark Alman
TC Editor and TSA Secretary





-Original Message-
From: John Brooks [mailto:jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net] 
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 5:27 PM
To: J. LaRue Thomas
Cc: CaveTex
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] RE: The TSA Needs Your Thoughts: TSA Land
Fund Dispensation

I appreciate the enthusiatic support and healthy dialogue that this
issue  has generated. 
But.No need to vote just yet..This item will be discussed at the
TSA Fall members meeting. The issue  will thrn likely be put to a full
vote of the TSA membership on the ballot with  the 2009 TSA officers
election.
Please attend...and voice your opinion at our Fall meeting! And...then
VOTE!

John Brooks
TSA Chairman 2008


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Cor

[ot_caving] DVD review - cave related

[David]

"Journey to the Center of the Earth"

   http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51G9PWES3QL._SS500_.jpg

this is a review of a DVD from 2004 of a movie
filmed in 1999 and made for cable TV.

There are several real cave scenes in this movie. One of them appears
to be 3 people rappelling simultaneously ( as silhouettes ) into a large deep
tag-like pit.

Most of the cave scenes appear to be artificial studio made caves.

I liked this movie.In some ways it resembles the "Land of the Lost"
TV series for kids back in the 70's.   But that is why the critics hated it.

I thought the actors all played their parts very well.The graphics were
good, but considered the low end of modern CGI.

I only paid $ 7 for the DVD at Fry's.

The studio failed greatly by naming this movie "Journey to the Center of
the Earth." Other than their quest to go deep underground, there
almost no similarity to the story of Jules Verne's version.
The movie should have been called "The Caverns of Tongariro."

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Tongariro

It is obvious that this movie has an Australian/ New Zealand flavor to
the story, but I liked that.

It is easy to see why everybody hated this movie as the plot was weak, however,
if you can overlook that, and sit back and take it for what it is, then I think
it is enjoyable, but young teenagers will hate the cheezy graphics and adults
familiar with the old story will wonder why it is so different from the original
story.

Here are just some of the flaws:

The 4 cave explorers in 1876 explored the caverns way past 6 miles of
depth, with just 4 wind-up rechargeable electric hand-held lanterns.They
were extremely unprepared for such a journey.  The girl wore a dress
the whole time in the cave and they nevered seemed to get dirty. The
first pit was about 3,000 feet deep. They each had their own manilla
rope for the rappel, yet when they left for the hike, they only carried 2 or
3 short coils of rope.   They never showed the rappeling device or
harness, but it appeared they were using a double rope to rappel, thus
they each had over 6,000 feet of rope. At the bottom and through
the remainder of the trip, they still carried their coils of rope.

They ascended from the deep underground to the surface through a
water portal in just a few seconds without getting the bends or any
other side effect, and the girl couldn't even swim.

They also dropped all their gear and packs into the deep pits without
any breakage.

They could not have gone more than 10 miles of depth, probably more
like 6 and 1/2 half.   Yet, they believed they were at the center of the
earth.  The cave passages that they walked on were mostly
horizontal and dry.

But if you can ignore all of that and more, you might like it.

Most of the actors have their own Wikipedia page,
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryan_Brown

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treat_Williams

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petra_Jared

These actors could potentially be in future movies. For example,
Bryan Brown is in the upcoming "Australia" with Nicole Kidman.
So if they were to every become famous,
it would be interesting to go back and watch this DVD if you haven't already.

David


Ref:

http://www.wsu.edu/~delahoyd/j.c.o.e.1999.html

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