Re: [Texascavers] gas mileage

[Nico Escamilla]

I'd be honored  to help watch/moderate texascavers

Nico
On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 11:01 PM, Charles Goldsmith 
wrote:

> No, but I may give him a job and a very ban stick for all of the OT :p
>
> Charles
>
> On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 7:14 PM, Don Cooper  wrote:
> > Rumor has it that Nico Escamilla has become the Texas Caver remailer
> > moderator?
> > -WaV
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Nico Escamilla 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> may I suggest that we take this discussion to the OT list?
> >> Nico
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 11:48 AM, Sam Young 
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> (Not that there's any such thing as a car that gets 40 in real life.)
> >>> --Mixon
> >>>
> >>> OK, this is not cave related but if someone thinks that me and my Honda
> >>> do not live in real life, I must object.  I just put a new timing belt
> in my
> >>> 1992 Honda Civic VX at 150K miles because I plan to drive it for a long
> >>> time.  I only check the mileage every year or so but the last time I
> did it
> >>> was about 46 mpg on one tank and about 54mpg on the next.  When the car
> was
> >>> brand new I drove it at 55 mph all day and got 63 mpg.
> >>>
> >>> No, it is not for sale.   Sam
> >>
> >
> >
>

RE: [Texascavers] gas mileage

[RD Milhollin]

Could do worse, if this rumor is based on Nico's suggestion to move the
gas/mileage discussion to the OT list.

 

  _  

From: Don Cooper [mailto:wavyca...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 7:15 PM
To: Nico Escamilla
Cc: Sam Young; texas cavers
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] gas mileage

 

Rumor has it that Nico Escamilla has become the Texas Caver remailer
moderator?
-WaV

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Nico Escamilla 
wrote:

may I suggest that we take this discussion to the OT list?
Nico

 

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 11:48 AM, Sam Young  wrote:

(Not that there's any such thing as a car that gets 40 in real life.)
--Mixon

 

OK, this is not cave related but if someone thinks that me and my Honda do
not live in real life, I must object.  I just put a new timing belt in my
1992 Honda Civic VX at 150K miles because I plan to drive it for a long
time.  I only check the mileage every year or so but the last time I did it
was about 46 mpg on one tank and about 54mpg on the next.  When the car was
brand new I drove it at 55 mph all day and got 63 mpg.

 

No, it is not for sale.   Sam

 

 

Re: [Texascavers] gas mileage

[Charles Goldsmith]

No, but I may give him a job and a very ban stick for all of the OT :p

Charles

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 7:14 PM, Don Cooper  wrote:
> Rumor has it that Nico Escamilla has become the Texas Caver remailer
> moderator?
> -WaV
>
> On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Nico Escamilla 
> wrote:
>>
>> may I suggest that we take this discussion to the OT list?
>> Nico
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 11:48 AM, Sam Young 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> (Not that there's any such thing as a car that gets 40 in real life.)
>>> --Mixon
>>>
>>> OK, this is not cave related but if someone thinks that me and my Honda
>>> do not live in real life, I must object.  I just put a new timing belt in my
>>> 1992 Honda Civic VX at 150K miles because I plan to drive it for a long
>>> time.  I only check the mileage every year or so but the last time I did it
>>> was about 46 mpg on one tank and about 54mpg on the next.  When the car was
>>> brand new I drove it at 55 mph all day and got 63 mpg.
>>>
>>> No, it is not for sale.   Sam
>>
>
>

[ot_caving] Fishy pedicure

[Louise Power]

For those of you who have ever swum in the Naciemiento del Rio Mante, check 
this out:
 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25783483?GT1=43001
 
:)

Re: [ot_caving] Gas mileage.

[Don Cooper]

I think this is CRAP, but apparently not everyone thinks so -
http://www.gas4freebonus.com/?id=G5888003
-WaV

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 7:49 PM, Don Cooper  wrote:

> Has anyone else "suspended their disbelief" long enough to look into some
> of this "Water For Fuel" business?
>
>

Re: [ot_caving] Gas mileage.

[Don Cooper]

Has anyone else "suspended their disbelief" long enough to look into some of
this "Water For Fuel" business?
The last one I looked at talked about 'using your battery to seperate the
water into "HHO" which is THREE times more powerful than gasoline'
I mean - I've been told I shoot ideas down before trying them - (physics
classes aside) but does anyone actually believe you can get a net gain from
recombining H2 and O after applying the energy to split them apart?  Is this
recombination in concert with gasoline supposed to make it feasible?
I've even seen news reports about 'some great new inventor'  using water for
fuel.  I think these reporters are amazingly not smart and gullible.
I'd like to see some response to what others think about this hooey...
-WaV

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 6:05 PM, Terry Holsinger  wrote:

> VW Diesels have been on the US roads since about 1981 and getting around
> 40-45mpg the whole time. They have not been "popular" with the masses mostly
> because they are diesels (i.e. they smell, are noisy, vibrate, hard to find
> fuel, cost more, and are slow). In the recent years VW (and Daimler) have
> come out with electronic injection for these cars and they have seen good
> improvements on the acceleration end of non-turbo versions of these cars
> (and trucks) as well as improvements in emissions. The noise and vibration
> has been fixed (as it has in many newer cars and trucks) by general
> improvements in automotive built quality.
>
> As for caver folks driving these diesels, here in Austin, Walt Olneck
> drives an old 80's VW Rabbit, one of the San Antonio caver's has a new
> Passat station wagon.
>
> Also one of my relatives living in California has a diesel motor home
> (slide out wall and such) by Daimler and is getting just over 30 mpg in it,
> of course it does not have the over sized diesel like is found in US built
> trucks.
>
> Terry H.
>
>
> Fritz Holt wrote:
>
>> I am switching this string to OT as Bill Steele reminded that it is a
>> stretch to consider this topic caving related.
>>
>> The "linear" savings is a little deep for me but there may be a non-hybrid
>> car or two that averages 40 mpg city and highway.
>> I seem to have read recently that VW produced a small sedan, I believe a
>> Jetta, with a small diesel engine that averaged at least 40mpg. How about
>> it, David, am I remembering correctly? I don't consider a Smart for two a
>> real automobile.
>> Fritz
>>
>>
>
> -
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>
>

Re: [Texascavers] gas mileage

[Don Cooper]

Rumor has it that Nico Escamilla has become the Texas Caver remailer
moderator?
-WaV

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Nico Escamilla 
wrote:

> may I suggest that we take this discussion to the OT list?
> Nico
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 11:48 AM, Sam Young 
> wrote:
>
>>  *(Not that there's any such thing as a car that gets 40 in real life.)
>> --Mixon*
>>
>> OK, this is not cave related but if someone thinks that me and my Honda do
>> not live in real life, I must object.  I just put a new timing belt in my
>> 1992 Honda Civic VX at 150K miles because I plan to drive it for a long
>> time.  I only check the mileage every year or so but the last time I did it
>> was about 46 mpg on one tank and about 54mpg on the next.  When the car was
>> brand new I drove it at 55 mph all day and got 63 mpg.
>>
>> No, it is not for sale.   Sam
>>
>
>

Re: [ot_caving] Gas mileage.

[Terry Holsinger]

VW Diesels have been on the US roads since about 1981 and getting around 
40-45mpg the whole time. They have not been "popular" with the masses 
mostly because they are diesels (i.e. they smell, are noisy, vibrate, 
hard to find fuel, cost more, and are slow). In the recent years VW (and 
Daimler) have come out with electronic injection for these cars and they 
have seen good improvements on the acceleration end of non-turbo 
versions of these cars (and trucks) as well as improvements in 
emissions. The noise and vibration has been fixed (as it has in many 
newer cars and trucks) by general improvements in automotive built quality.


As for caver folks driving these diesels, here in Austin, Walt Olneck 
drives an old 80's VW Rabbit, one of the San Antonio caver's has a new 
Passat station wagon.


Also one of my relatives living in California has a diesel motor home 
(slide out wall and such) by Daimler and is getting just over 30 mpg in 
it, of course it does not have the over sized diesel like is found in US 
built trucks.


Terry H.

Fritz Holt wrote:

I am switching this string to OT as Bill Steele reminded that it is a stretch 
to consider this topic caving related.

The "linear" savings is a little deep for me but there may be a non-hybrid car 
or two that averages 40 mpg city and highway.
I seem to have read recently that VW produced a small sedan, I believe a Jetta, 
with a small diesel engine that averaged at least 40mpg. How about it, David, 
am I remembering correctly? I don't consider a Smart for two a real automobile.
Fritz




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Re: [ot_caving] popular web-links.

[Terry Holsinger]

David wrote:
This is news to me, I would be more inclined to say most 
humans have de-evolved their mental capacity over the last millenia.


Q: Are We Not Men?
A: We Are Devo!

http://www.clubdevo.com/mp/images/home/devolutionary_oath.gif

:)

Terry H.

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Re: [Texascavers] gas prices be gone

[dirtdoc]

I remember driving from Albuquerque to the 1967 Gruntsville convention and 
barganing in Texas and Alabama for a discount if I put more than 50 gallons in 
Tortuga I at one time.  I think I got 4 cents off.  At least once, when we 
passed 85 gallons the guy was looking underneath to see where it was running 
out ---.

You are right, it wasn't miles per gallon, but gallons per hour.  And how many 
days you could go before you had to come out and buy more go juce.

The tales of yore.

But have you purchased gas or diesel in Europe recently??  We are being hit up 
with BIG fuel surcharges for the bus in Slovenia and Croatia in Spetember.

DirtDoc
-- Original message -- 
From: Gill Ediger  


> In 1971 I was in the Army 

[ot_caving] The middle east and capital punishment

[David]

If you are sensitive to my racist views on the people of the middle east,
please do not read this e-mail.




The Iranians are alledgedly planning another stoning ceremony soon.

They gently place the convict in a whole and fill it with dirt up to their
waste or neck.Then a group of special people get to fling little
cute rocks at the convict's head.   The convict only gets to say Ouch!
about
once, so it is relatively humane.   This rids the convict's body of the
evil
demons, so his tribe can give him a proper burial.   Then the eat lots
of curry flavored food and drink camel milk.

These people also want to play with nuclear energy.

That would be the equivalent of giving a bunch of chimpanzees some stinger
missiles and setting them loose in a day-care facility.

The world needs to stand together and show the people of the middle
east how they will be required to behave in this new age of globalization.

Without the world standing behind us 100 percent, our efforts there will
fail.

That is about the only reason I can think of to lend any support to the war
effort in Iraq.   Otherwise, I think our motives over there are going to
end up being pointless and future generations are going to ridicule our
generation
just like we ridicule the supporters of the Kaiser for his invasion of
France
in 1914.

I can only hope that the media is exaggerating the whole stoning story, or
that
the convicts truly deserve such punishment.

David Locklear
opinonated grumpy old gringo

[Texascavers] OT-Re: [Texascavers] RE: gas prices

[Brian Riordan]

I seem to be ideally situated to respond to this thread and article- here
goes some stream of conscious:

1. I am currently an installation engineer for a company contracted for the
engineering, procurement, construction and installation of an offshore and
subsea petroleum system for a project at roughly 8000 ft. water depth in the
Gulf of Mexico.
When you consider installation by vessels (multiple vessels at a time) that
cost $500,000 a DAY, in over a mile and half of water (in which 10" steel
pipe acts like a wet noodle) using gaskets that cost $10,000 a piece (yep,
7" gaskets), highly engineered components from 7 countries for a 30 yr
design life, dealing with the high deepsea pressures, high internal oil/gas
pressure, corrosive environment, damaging high-sulpher content, Gulf loop
currents- and then drilling 30,000ft deeper into the porous rock because we
THINK there is oil there- well, it's risky business.  That doesn't include
the floating production unit on the surface, which is a mini-city that
semi-processes the content offshore and is moored often by 12 chains that
have links over a meter long, the steel being used thicker than 8" in
diameter.  The spread of these mooring lines has a diameter greater than
that of the inner-loop (hwy 620) in Houston.  (Steel costs being the largest
driving factor for costs- not transportation)  A flow meter for ONE well on
this project was over a million dollars from a vendor!

2. The project before this I was the electrical and instrumentation engineer
for a hydrogen plant in the Canadian Oil Sands (Ft. McMurray, Alberta).  A
300 BILLION dollar project by Canadian Natural Resources Limited called an
"upgrader".  It basically takes black tarry sand and "upgrades" it to crude
oil.  The net energy yield from tar sands is significantly less than from
crude (because it takes so much energy to get it to a usable form) not to
mention the ridiculous cost of the upgrading facility and how much you have
to pay labor (YOU try working at negative 60 Celsius and see how efficient
YOU are)  Lets put it another way: While I was in Ft. McMurray, housing
prices have continuously gone up- at the time a house built in 1982,
unfinished interior, no furnishings at 900 square ft. was going for
$900,000.  Infrastructure there was so limited, if there was a storm, there
was a 3 day waiting list for tow truck assistance.

3.  I grew up (18 years+) in Alaska.  There are places in ANWR that have
rocks so rich in oil you can light them on fire.  Ironically, there is also
a National Petroleum Reserve [of Alaska] (NPRA) that unfortunately doesn't
have any promising wells (can we trade with ANWR?)
http://www.agiweb.org/gap/legis107/NPRA_F1lg.gif

4.  article states: "The fact is, the Trans-Alaska pipeline that is supposed
to bring us that new ANWR oil probably couldn't handle it right now because
lack of maintenance has left it in bad shape. (Business Journalism 101: You
can reinvest revenue in infrastructure or pull the money out as profit.) "
I wouldn't want to attend his business class- Business 201 might be: You can
fail to maintain or upgrade your infrastructure and pay out the nose in lost
efficiencies due to new technology developments, lose credibility and the
contract to the operators paying you to transfer their cargo, go to jail
because you're a licensed PE in the state and failed to mitigate
environmental risks or lose product that you've worked so hard to bring to
market.

My dad is the engineering manager of Alyeska Pipeline- the company that
operates/maintains/upgrades TAPS (Trans Alaska Pipeline System)- you can bet
they work hard to keep it in good shape, and spend the money on
fixing/improving to prove it!  In addition, my brother, while in college,
worked for a company travels the pipeline monitoring corrosion.  The areas
the closest to earning the title as "bad shape" are the areas most prone to
corrosion.  These areas are places where the pipeline was burried to
accomodate migrating carribou.  In yet another ironic twist, the carribou
enjoy the shade of the pipeline because, believe it or not, the interior of
Alaska gets up into the 90's F in the summer, and there really isn't any
other shady spot on the tundra.

The more I learn what it takes to get gas from the ground to my '99 Camry in
which I personally change the oil every 3000 miles, the more I am amazed
that it costs only $4.00 a gallon.  Orange juice, at a similar price/gallon
grows on trees for the love!

There are a lot of skewed facts in that article.

-B




On 7/21/08, Joe Ranzau  wrote:
>
> Read the article below, a bit left leaning but interesting none the less
> :-)
>
> http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/news/2008/07/portfolio_0721
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Louise Power 
> wrote:
>
>> I think that was about the same time Tenneco gas was going for 19
>> cents/gal in Houston, I was driving a 67 Chevy Suburban that got 18-20 mpg
>> on the road and I thought that if I could only make $10,000/yr 

[Texascavers] NSS Convention by Greyhound

[David]

Have you considered going to the NSS Convention by Greyhound bus?



>From Austin, it makes about 20 scheduled stops, some lasting over an hour.

They claim it is only a 25 hour bus ride.   I doubt that.

You have to change buses in Houston and Tallahassee.

The round-trip fare is $ 400 plus taxes and fees.

This includes free conversation and physical contact with the person
sitting next to your for 24 hours or more.They may smell funny, or spit
while they talk to you,
but if your lucky; they will let you share their potato chips or popcorn.


In my opinion,

one way America can improve its energy strategy is to
develop the world's best interstate bus system. This is one area
where Gringos have a lot to learn from Mexico. I will be discussing this
and more, at

o...@texascavers.com

David Locklear

Re: [ot_caving] Gas mileage.

[David]

Both Volkswagen and Mitsubishi had a small diesel truck back around
1984. Mitsu's was available with real 4x4.They were hard to
find.   Does anybody know somebody who owned one?

I believe they had a reputation for being slow, un-reliable and noisy.
You certainly don't see them around anymore.   I thought the diesel was
supposed to last 500,000 miles if you took care of it?

I am glad I don't own a diesel.I saw a pump 2 weeks ago that was $ 5
a gallon.

Jim McLane owns 2 diesel 4x4 SUV's.  A rare International Harvester
Scout 2.   The other is a giant Seismic Truck, that I think he drove to
the
1964 Texas NSS Convention.   That truck should be parked at a caver site
somewhere and used as a flower garden decoration.   I think that
is what Jim has been using it for the last 10 years or so.

David

[Texascavers] gas prices be gone

[Gill Ediger]

At 11:10 AM 7/21/2008, Louise Power wrote:
I think that was about the same time Tenneco gas was going for 19 
cents/gal in Houston,


This is, I hope, the last post I'll have to make regarding gas 
prices, but the story is worth the telling.


In 1971 I was in the Army and stationed at Ft Walters near Mineral 
Wells taking helicopter basic training. I had a new '71 GMC 3/4T 
pickup that got about 12 miles per gallon. It had a rather smallish 
21 gallon behind the seat fuel tank. I had Jon Vinson out in San 
Angelo weld me up an auxiliary fuel tank of 75 gallon capacity which 
we installed in Austin one weekend. I went to a large but off-brand 
filling station on Burnet Road and, between the 2 tanks, managed to 
take on 91 or 92 odd gallons of leaded regular gasoline. I handed the 
cashier dude a 20 dollar bill and got back a handfull of small 
change. If I'd try that today (I still have the tank) the cost would 
be closer to 400 bucks and likely no change.


But, it's only money,
--Ediger



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[ot_caving] the recent gas discussion

[David]

I think the most noticeable difference between the motoring culture of the
60's
and now, is the ratio of big SUV's to the population.

Remember in 1966 when Jeep introduced the Super Wagoneer?  It had a V8
and
4 doors, 4x4, a roof rack and weighed 2 tons.

http://inlinethumb56.webshots.com/43767/2184521140012516020S600x600Q85.jpg
 

Only a hand-full of rich outdoor enthusiast could afford one and it was a
limited production.

Today, there are over 20 SUV's that weigh more than the Super Wagoneer, and
there
are millions of them on the road.   The Excursion, The Expedition, The
Armada, The
Suburban, The Land Rover, The Land Cruiser, The Sequioa, The MXT,  The
Hummer H1,
etc.

Crack dealers prefer them and add gas guzzling
tires to them.  The Black Panthers prefer them.  Military security
agencies prefer them.
Soccer moms prefer them.

Then there are the regular SUV's that have large V6's, big tires,
un-necessary AWD.

Also, look at how prominent the national bus and train system was back in
the 60's. When
was the last time you looked forward to a 8 hour bus trip to visit a
relative?  I have
ridden 3 sight-seeing trains, but never for transportation.

Would you consider going to the NSS Convention from Austin to Lake City, by
Greyhound
bus?

David

[ot_caving] Gas mileage.

[Fritz Holt]

I am switching this string to OT as Bill Steele reminded that it is a stretch 
to consider this topic caving related.

The "linear" savings is a little deep for me but there may be a non-hybrid car 
or two that averages 40 mpg city and highway.
I seem to have read recently that VW produced a small sedan, I believe a Jetta, 
with a small diesel engine that averaged at least 40mpg. How about it, David, 
am I remembering correctly? I don't consider a Smart for two a real automobile.
Fritz

[ot_caving] popular web-links.

[David]

This is news to me, but here is a single link containing most of the popular
web-sites.

http://allmyfaves.com/

I am not sure what the potential to this link is, as I visit very few of
those web sites.



My idea is that after your computer boots, instead of the Windows desktop,
you get a desktop
resembling this page.You would have control over which icons where
listed. Each link
would open with voice command.   For example, as long as the desktop
background where
open, if you said "Fed-Ex" then their page would open or a custom-link you
set up for them
would open.

On a not so related note,

One thing I thing that is strange about all of these logos, is that they
have been engraved in
our brain tissue somehow. Just think about the loss of brain
capacity due to the storage
of all of this un-necessary data.  For example, how many bites of data
does it take your
brain to store the logo for PAC-MAN?

I believe that the 1st humans that walked the earth had zero data to store
in their brains. Their
brains were free in a sense we will never understand.This led them
to acheive amazing things that were never recorded.
They possibly built structures out of wood that would rival the Empire State
Building.  After 50,000
years, these structures would have long since rotted away, with no
record.  Or maybe they painted
things on the ground that have eroded away.  Or maybe they played music
with great precision
and artistry.   Or maybe they used a language that our brains could not
comprehend.  Or maybe
they danced in an exotic ritual that would rival ballet.

I do not support the theory that we are much smarter than the early humans
or that our brain has
developed capacity over the years.   I would be more inclined to say
most humans have de-evolved
their mental capacity over the last millenia.

On the other hand, it is possible that if their brains were free, they could
only think of conquering the
world. And it doing so, created warfare.

David Locklear

Re: [Texascavers] RE: gas prices

[Joe Ranzau]

Read the article below, a bit left leaning but interesting none the less :-)

http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/news/2008/07/portfolio_0721



On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Louise Power 
wrote:

>  I think that was about the same time Tenneco gas was going for 19
> cents/gal in Houston, I was driving a 67 Chevy Suburban that got 18-20 mpg
> on the road and I thought that if I could only make $10,000/yr I'd be on
> easy street.
>
> --
> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 07:48:50 -0700
> From: rons...@yahoo.com
> To: mmin...@nmhu.edu; texascavers@texascavers.com
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] RE: gas prices
>
>
>  Humm, surfeit, a new word to add to my vocabulary. Seems appropriate to
> me.
>
> We could also go back to the summer of 1968 when there were gas price wars
> for 10 cents a gallon in Fort Worth and a lot of cars got about 10 miles per
> gallon. I think I was making about $3.10 an hour in a professional position.
> Rent was generally a little over $100 a month including utilities. A new
> Mercury Cougar could be purchased for around $3200. Enchilada dinners at El
> Fenix were $1.00.
>
> Ron
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message  A
> From: "Minton, Mark" 
> To: "texascavers@texascavers.com" 
> Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 8:15:06 PM
> Subject: [Texascavers] RE: gas prices
>
>Don Cooper said:
>
> >>No - but I would give my left nut to go back to the days that gas was
> 1.05 a gallon, when I was making only $19.00 an hour with excellent health
> benefits and rent, including paid utilities were only $500 a month.
>   To which Louise Power said:
>
> >You can't even give those things away in Oregon. You see them sitting
> roadside along with Hummers with big "For Sale" signs in the windshield.
> They've been sitting there so long that most of the signs are faded and have
> spidey webs on them.
>
>   Are you talking about left nuts here?  Is there a surfeit of left
> nuts in Oregon?  Inquiring minds want to know!  ;-)
>
> Mark Minton
>

[ot_caving] health food question

[David]

Do any of you out there drink the green juices that have
a blend of green plant particles in them?

I am certain I don't eat enough green food.  I don't like
canned spinach, but love spinach leaves in my salad.   I don't
eat ocka or brussel sprouts.  But I do like grilled cucumber
( expecially the fire-roasted kind at TCR )

I do eat lima beans and green beans and salad, but not as often
as I should

Most of these juices mention a milligram content of Spirulina algae.

Is eating algae really healthy?

I had my 1st bottle this weekend.  It was not unpleasant.
But it was tolerable.

Here is just one web-site's claim to taking a Spirulina supplement:

 All natural appetite suppressant, decreases appetite so you eat less
 Helps you maintain healthy blood sugar levels
 Helps you maintain healthy cholesterol and lipid levels.
  ( because when you eat less, your cholesterol and blood lipids are
less likely to rise as high as when you eat a lot of food.)
 An antioxidant
 Provides healthy fiber
 Improves energy
 Balances mood
 Improves mental concentration and focus
 Improves will power and choice of food selection


David

Re: [Texascavers] gas mileage

[Lyndon Tiu]

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 11:29:22 -0500 bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote:
> 13 MPG in a Jeep? Hard to believe it's that bad. Must have been going  
> 80. 

I purposely drove at 55 miles per hour on a 70 miles per hour road between 
Barnhart and Ozona.

I purposedly went at that speed (55 mph) thinking that is the speed with the 
best fuel economy.

The Jeep was not full of cargo as I offloaded most of it under a tree beside 
the cave. So I wasn't carrying a lot of weight.

I was the only passenger. I only weight 155lbs.

--
Lyndon Tiu

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Re: [Texascavers] UV Lights

[mike]

Not photographing the UV, photographing the critter glow without any  
extraneous visible frequencies added in by a cheap UV source.  Macro  
shots with only

that glow would be really really cool.

Mike


Quoting Terry Holsinger :


So what were you trying to photograph? Were you after the glowing
objects? Or just looking for how things reflected the UV band? Also UV
is blocked by the glass in most lenses, newer multi element lenses more
so then old simple lenses. And the shorter wavelengths more the the
longer near visible wavelengths. There are a number of websites devoted
to UV photography, just like there are a bunch devoted to Infrared.

Terry H.

m...@mpphoto.ws wrote:
I did a little bit of research on this a few weeks ago - I was   
trying to isolate the spectral band that illuminates the   
phosphorescent chemical and couple it with a photo filter that   
blocks all other visible light - finding a filter with that narrow   
and specific of a light cut (everything except 450-550nm glow) is   
really hard (read: impossible). You can still get some great shots,  
 just have to do them at night. But those LED's won't be very good   
at stimulating glow - 400-405 is approaching visible light (you may  
 even be able to see a little light from them). Methinks you need   
something with a little bit shorter wavelength.


This article is pretty cool -   
http://www.science.marshall.edu/fet/euscorpius/p2003_08.pdf


Talks about using 360nm to stimulate glow

LMK if you find otherwise - this stuff is really interesting.

Mike Pugliese
www.mpphoto.ws
570.898.3011

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[ot_caving] LED light failure

[David]

I have purchased probably a hundred LED products in the last 8 years.

I had my first light failure this weekend.

I bought a LED light for our dining table chandelier at Walmart on Saturday.

I screwed it into the socket and turned it on.  It looked pretty
good.I
turned it off.Several hours later I went to turn it on again and
nada.
I wiggled it. I jiggled it. I finally ended up disassembling it.
All
the wiring to the circuit board and to the separate LED board looked
connected.

This was the least expensive of the LED bulbs that I have put in my house.

This is the exact bulb:

http://www.plumbersurplus.com/images/prod/6/Lights-of-America-2025LED-65K-24-rw-98193-163396.jpg

Had this been a person's first experience with LED's, they would probably
never
buy one again.

I have about 1/2 the light sockets in my house using some kind of LED.
Based on my
experience, it is going to be at least several years before this becomes
mainstream.
However, I am convinced that the future of home lighting is not with CFL's
but with
LED's.

My wife's number one complaint is that if you accidentally look directly
into the LED, which
is very easy to do; you are temporarily blinded for a second.   I
imagine after doing this
every day for 10 years, you could develop retinal cancer.

David

Re: [Texascavers] gas mileage

[Diana Tomchick]

Trick question--you save more gas switching from the SUV with 15 MPG  
to one that gets 20 MPG.


Proof: Drive all four vehicles for 10,000 miles and calculate the  
number of gallons of gas used.


15 MPG: uses 666.67 ga.

20 MPG: uses 500 ga.

25 MPG: uses 400 ga.

40 MPG: uses 250 ga.

Voila, you reap a savings of 166.67 gallons when switching from the 15  
to 20 MPG vehicle.


The savings in fuel is not linear, though people commonly believe it  
to be true. Thus as a country we would reap more fuel savings if we  
rid our highways of the really fuel-inefficient vehicles first.


This was covered in a recent "Policy Forum" in Science magazine. The  
name of the article is "The MPG Illusion." Anyone who wishes to  
receive a copy of this article as a PDF file, please contact me and  
I'll send it to you (it's not publicly available on the web site).


Diana


On Jul 21, 2008, at 11:29 AM, Mixon Bill wrote:

13 MPG in a Jeep? Hard to believe it's that bad. Must have been  
going 80. You can't really do this calculation on the basis on one  
fill-up, because there can be significant variation in just how full  
you actually get the tank. Average over several tanks.


Interesting question: Which saves more gas, switching from a SUV  
with 15 MPG to one that gets 20, or switching from a car that gets  
25 to one that gets 40?

(Not that there's any such thing as a car that gets 40 in real life.)
--Mixon
--
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
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* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Diana R. Tomchick
Associate Professor
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
Department of Biochemistry
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214B   
Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.   
Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
214-645-6383 (phone)
214-645-6353 (fax)


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Re: [Texascavers] gas mileage

[Nico Escamilla]

may I suggest that we take this discussion to the OT list?
Nico

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 11:48 AM, Sam Young  wrote:

>  *(Not that there's any such thing as a car that gets 40 in real life.)
> --Mixon*
>
> OK, this is not cave related but if someone thinks that me and my Honda do
> not live in real life, I must object.  I just put a new timing belt in my
> 1992 Honda Civic VX at 150K miles because I plan to drive it for a long
> time.  I only check the mileage every year or so but the last time I did it
> was about 46 mpg on one tank and about 54mpg on the next.  When the car was
> brand new I drove it at 55 mph all day and got 63 mpg.
>
> No, it is not for sale.   Sam
>

[Texascavers] gas mileage

[Sam Young]

(Not that there's any such thing as a car that gets 40 in real life.)
--Mixon

OK, this is not cave related but if someone thinks that me and my Honda do not 
live in real life, I must object.  I just put a new timing belt in my 1992 
Honda Civic VX at 150K miles because I plan to drive it for a long time.  I 
only check the mileage every year or so but the last time I did it was about 46 
mpg on one tank and about 54mpg on the next.  When the car was brand new I 
drove it at 55 mph all day and got 63 mpg.

No, it is not for sale.   Sam

RE: [Texascavers] gas mileage

[Stefan Creaser]

Actually a Prius does pretty well, oficially close to 50mpg but in
reality still over 40, afaik.

Cheers,
Stefan

-Original Message-
From: Mixon Bill [mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com] 

(Not that there's any such thing as a car that gets 40 in real life.)
--Mixon

-- 
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, 
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Re: [Texascavers] gas mileage

[Nico Escamilla]

13 MPG sounds way too bad for a jeep, thats what my friend's F250 gets and
that truck has a big V10 in it
Nico

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 11:29 AM, Mixon Bill 
wrote:

> 13 MPG in a Jeep? Hard to believe it's that bad. Must have been going 80.
> You can't really do this calculation on the basis on one fill-up, because
> there can be significant variation in just how full you actually get the
> tank. Average over several tanks.
>
> Interesting question: Which saves more gas, switching from a SUV with 15
> MPG to one that gets 20, or switching from a car that gets 25 to one that
> gets 40?
> (Not that there's any such thing as a car that gets 40 in real life.)
> --Mixon
> --
> You may "reply" to the address this message
> came from, but for long-term use, save:
> Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
> AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
>
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>
>

[Texascavers] gas mileage

[Mixon Bill]

13 MPG in a Jeep? Hard to believe it's that bad. Must have been going  
80. You can't really do this calculation on the basis on one fill-up,  
because there can be significant variation in just how full you  
actually get the tank. Average over several tanks.


Interesting question: Which saves more gas, switching from a SUV with  
15 MPG to one that gets 20, or switching from a car that gets 25 to  
one that gets 40?

(Not that there's any such thing as a car that gets 40 in real life.)
--Mixon
--
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org



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RE: [Texascavers] RE: gas prices

[Louise Power]

I think that was about the same time Tenneco gas was going for 19 cents/gal in 
Houston, I was driving a 67 Chevy Suburban that got 18-20 mpg on the road and I 
thought that if I could only make $10,000/yr I'd be on easy street.

List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 07:48:50 -0700From: ronsear@yahoo.comTo: 
mmin...@nmhu.edu; texascavers@texascavers.comSubject: Re: [Texascavers] RE: gas 
prices




Humm, surfeit, a new word to add to my vocabulary. Seems appropriate to me.We 
could also go back to the summer of 1968 when there were gas price wars for 10 
cents a gallon in Fort Worth and a lot of cars got about 10 miles per gallon. I 
think I was making about $3.10 an hour in a professional position. Rent was 
generally a little over $100 a month including utilities. A new Mercury Cougar 
could be purchased for around $3200. Enchilada dinners at El Fenix were 
$1.00.Ron

- Original Message  AFrom: "Minton, Mark" To: 
"texascavers@texascavers.com" Sent: Saturday, July 
19, 2008 8:15:06 PMSubject: [Texascavers] RE: gas prices



  Don Cooper said:
 
>>No - but I would give my left nut to go back to the days that gas was 1.05 a 
>>gallon, when I was making only $19.00 an hour with excellent health benefits 
>>and rent, including paid utilities were only $500 a month.
  To which Louise Power said:
 
>You can't even give those things away in Oregon. You see them sitting roadside 
>along with Hummers with big "For Sale" signs in the windshield. They've been 
>sitting there so long that most of the signs are faded and have spidey webs on 
>them.
 
  Are you talking about left nuts here?  Is there a surfeit of left nuts in 
Oregon?  Inquiring minds want to know!  ;-)
 
Mark Minton

RE: [Texascavers] RE: gas prices

[Louise Power]

Neither, he was also talking about gas guzzling cars in that communique.

From: mminton@nmhu.eduTo: texascavers@texascavers.comCC: Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 
21:15:06 -0400Subject: [Texascavers] RE: gas prices




  Don Cooper said:
 
>>No - but I would give my left nut to go back to the days that gas was 1.05 a 
>>gallon, when I was making only $19.00 an hour with excellent health benefits 
>>and rent, including paid utilities were only $500 a month.
  To which Louise Power said:
 
>You can't even give those things away in Oregon. You see them sitting roadside 
>along with Hummers with big "For Sale" signs in the windshield. They've been 
>sitting there so long that most of the signs are faded and have spidey webs on 
>them.
 
  Are you talking about left nuts here?  Is there a surfeit of left nuts in 
Oregon?  Inquiring minds want to know!  ;-)
 
Mark Minton

[ot_caving] Italians in the news

[David]

Have you heard the story yet of the Italian sunbathers relaxing
near the bodies of 2 drowned girls?

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/07/21/italy.drowning/index.html

I imagine the sunbathers are getting a bad rap by the media.

They didn't have the legal right to move the bodies.   Had they
approached
the bodies; and tried to cover them up, they could have been criticized for
not doing it in a humane manner.

So they were correct in keeping a safe distance of 10 or 20 meters.

Why should the vacationers cancel their plans because some other
people didn't
supervise their children's swimming activities?

Maybe they could have gone a few more meters down the beach?   But would
that have changed the reality of the scene any?


It does seem like to me that someone present should have had the authority
to
place the bodies closer together in a more formal position, and possibly
covered
up the exposed feet with sand.Someone could have ran and got some
flowers to put on top
of them until the coroner arrived. But that still would have given
the paparatzi
plenty of time to get his tabloid photos.

David

RE: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices

[speleosteele]

OT if you ask me.


 Fritz Holt  wrote: 
> This BB Brain doesn't watch BBC.
> Fritz
> 
> 
> From: Ted Samsel [mailto:tbsam...@infionline.net]
> Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 1:13 PM
> To: Fritz Holt; Don Cooper; Philip L Moss
> Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices
> 
> 
> Fritz:
> 
> >>With China, India and **Russia** demanding more oil and gasoline, the 
> >>supply can't keep up
> 
> 
> The Russkies are making mega rubles with the oild & gas, BTW.. and selling it 
> to the Euros... doncha watch BBC?
> 
> T.
> 
> 
> 
> http://home.infionline.net/~tbsamsel/


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RE: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices

[Fritz Holt]

This BB Brain doesn't watch BBC.
Fritz


From: Ted Samsel [mailto:tbsam...@infionline.net]
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 1:13 PM
To: Fritz Holt; Don Cooper; Philip L Moss
Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices


Fritz:

>>With China, India and **Russia** demanding more oil and gasoline, the supply 
>>can't keep up


The Russkies are making mega rubles with the oild & gas, BTW.. and selling it 
to the Euros... doncha watch BBC?

T.



http://home.infionline.net/~tbsamsel/

[Texascavers] more new LED flashlights

[David]

Walmart has about 8 new LED flashlights.

Coleman Max has 6 new Cree lights including an inexpensive
Cree LED headlamp.   This lamp should be ideal for most of
your short caving trips.

http://www.coleman.com/coleman/images/products/4343-704_200.jpg

One flashlight stood out as unique.  For its small size,
it is the brightest flashlight you will find.  It will easily fit in
your pack.
However, it  uses lithium batteries that are smaller than the more
common CR123A's.   I did not see this or the other's on Coleman's
web-site,
but there were some I haven't seen yet.

Another interesting light, was a Brinkman Tuffmax. It was a 90 degree
light with a belt-clip.  This tiny light could be worn on your chest
harness while
ascending rope.

David Locklear

[ot_caving] Re: [Texascavers] spies in the Middle East

[David]

Gill recently proposed the re-merging of Texas and Coahuila.  And Nico
counter-responded
the general Mexican sentiment that they should get back the land that the
crooked gringos
stole from Mexico ( just like Saddam tried to do in Kuwait and Hitler in
Poland ).

Although it is important to look at the past when making political
decisions, I believe it is more
important that our leaders think out-side the box and try to come up with
solutions that solve
problems.

For example, one reason Coahuila, New Mexico, Arizona, etc have poor
economies is that
they are land-locked regions dependent on the good will of their
neighbors.  I believe the
political boundaries should be re-drawn so that these areas have their own
ports that they
control.   Brownsville should be given to the people of Coahuila.
Corpus Christie should
be given to the people of New Mexico. Port Author and the entire Sabine
River should be
given to Oklahoma and the other side in Louisiana should be given to Kansas.

David Locklear