[Texascavers] Fwd: 15th ICS - arts and music salons
Forwarded by Mixon: Begin forwarded message: From: ICS 2009 eList List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: December 13, 2008 7:12:58 PM CST To: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu Subject: 15th ICS - arts and music salons Dear Friends, As you wait to have your abstracts reviewed for the 15th International Congress of Speleology (ICS), I encourage you to start preparing to enter the International Cave Arts and Music Salons. The salons are 10 different competitions in the following categories: Ballad and Songs Cartography Newsletter Cover Art MultiMedia Photographic (projected images) Photographic (prints) SpeleoArt SpeleMedia (video) Symbolic Emblems (patches, stickers, pins, etc.) T-Shirts The deadlines to enter are as early as 1 April 2009 and vary with each salon. Most of the salons charge small entry fees. By the end of January 2009, hopefully sooner, on-line registration will be available for the salons. Most salons also welcome materials for display only. For rules and details on each salon, visit http://www.ics2009.us . In the middle of the menu on the left you will find “Salons” with links to information on each salon. There is fantastic talent and creativity in the international speleological community. I look forward to seeing yours in Kerrville on 19-26 July 2009. George Veni George Veni, Ph.D. Chairman, 15th International Congress of Speleology Adjunct Secretary, International Union of Speleology Executive Director, U.S. National Cave and Karst Research Institute -- You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Tennesse program to protect caves and fauna:
Cave Program Benefits People and Cave Creatures Paul Kingsbury • Reader Submitted • December 10, 2008 Property owners in Montgomery County have an unusual new opportunity to improve their properties and help protect caves and their creatures — at little or no cost to the landowner. The Cave Landowner Incentive Program (or Cave LIP for short) provides the money, the staff and the means to make improvements to land and property, ensuring that caves are protected, often with significant benefits for the landowner. The program is funded by the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency and directed by The Nature Conservancy of Tennessee. “Tennessee has 9,200 documented caves, the most of any state in the nation,” said Cory Holliday of The Nature Conservancy in Tennessee, who directs the program. “The vast majority of those caves are on private property, and many are home to rare animal species. This program was designed to make it easy for people to protect the lands and waters around local caves, and to benefit from those improvements at little or no cost to themselves.” Holliday noted that Cave LIP can help landowners with fencing to keep livestock out of sinkholes and streams, replacement of worn-out septic tanks, cleaning accumulated trash out of sinkholes and plantings of trees and other vegetation. “It's not even necessary to have a cave on your property to participate in this program,” he added. “Often a spring or a sinkhole on the property qualifies for the program.” The Cave LIP program covers the following counties: Anderson, Bedford, Cumberland, Fentress, Franklin, Grundy, Knox, Marion, Montgomery, Overton, Pickett, Putnam, Roane, Rutherford, Stewart, Van Buren, Warren and White. The program will be in place for the 2009 calendar year. To learn more about Cave LIP, contact Cory Holliday, Cave and Karst Program Manager at The Nature Conservancy in Tennessee: 615-383-9909; _cholliday@tnc.org_ (mailto:cholli...@tnc.org) . ### The Nature Conservancy is a leading international, nonprofit organization that preserves plants, animals and communities representing the diversity of life on Earth by protecting the lands and waters they need to survive. To date, the Conservancy and its more than one million members have been responsible for the protection of more than 15 million acres in the United States and more than 102 million acres in Latin America, the Caribbean, Asia and the Pacific. In Tennessee, we have helped protect more than 270,000 acres. Visit us on the Web at nature.org/Tennessee. _http://www.theleafchronicle.com/article/20081210/NEIGHBORHOODS01/812100375_ (http://www.theleafchronicle.com/article/20081210/NEIGHBORHOODS01/812100375) **Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom0010)
CONFIRM subscribe to texascavers@texascavers.com
Hi! This is the ezmlm program. I'm managing the texascavers@texascavers.com mailing list. I'm working for my owner, who can be reached at texascavers-ow...@texascavers.com. I respectfully request your permission to add jswhite1...@gmail.com to the subscribers of the texascavers mailing list. This request either came from you, or it has already been verified by the potential subscriber. To confirm, please send an empty reply to this address: texascavers-tc.1229212064.lgpojagocigglmaioajm-jswhite1224=gmail@texascavers.com Usually, this happens when you just hit the "reply" button. If this does not work, simply copy the address and paste it into the "To:" field of a new message. If you don't approve, simply ignore this message. Thank you for your help! --- Administrative commands for the texascavers list --- I can handle administrative requests automatically. Please do not send them to the list address! Instead, send your message to the correct command address: For help and a description of available commands, send a message to: To subscribe to the list, send a message to: To remove your address from the list, just send a message to the address in the ``List-Unsubscribe'' header of any list message. If you haven't changed addresses since subscribing, you can also send a message to: For addition or removal of addresses, I'll send a confirmation message to that address. When you receive it, simply reply to it to complete the transaction. If you need to get in touch with the human owner of this list, please send a message to: Please include a FORWARDED list message with ALL HEADERS intact to make it easier to help you. --- Enclosed is a copy of the request I received. Return-Path: Received: (qmail 45225 invoked by uid 89); 13 Dec 2008 23:47:44 - Received: from unknown (HELO mail-bw0-f12.google.com) (209.85.218.12) by 192.168.254.10 with SMTP; 13 Dec 2008 23:47:44 - Received: by bwz5 with SMTP id 5so5107851bwz.6 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2008 15:47:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=a5BCkh5pzggEOF+s9lKwcrswAV3aKIPx4lx4PJcDGKQ=; b=Xrb3d3vHctXHiK6yZ+DFTSAkWsCKFYg/SPeB723XU9FkFv012y0i1Y4pFjAQZxOkiX bUWYnyuTSyvBSh00jgQsenV8h1OkLfdZxLteN0YHGQFlW3qGIBi1KplAcZj8BCMpH9kt lWrWNkOwuv9SHjmgzHPeUz4dJ8rit1NUu8DOw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references; b=G7/Tz6KAXlaYJ1axpQ+l1Xa8UvsgT/0Kjc9GfNU/6OonTSmcH85hQDhlZsBz90btTS Z2e8R/ogvPQ4KECLLyvmoZJ1/nKiuKykVGRXRO4Yb5QvN/x5CmJJZkkmy/qKsDscvsqc 4unDkBAcVYQANytadpapBIWOhVmNvxi1rIobQ= Received: by 10.103.240.5 with SMTP id s5mr2416314mur.106.1229212064953; Sat, 13 Dec 2008 15:47:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.102.215.11 with HTTP; Sat, 13 Dec 2008 15:47:44 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 17:47:44 -0600 From: "JS White" To: texascavers-sc.1229211975.gbmehiemjgdkmbnifbjp-jswhite1224=gmail@texascavers.com Subject: Re: confirm subscribe to texascavers@texascavers.com In-Reply-To: <1229211975.45217.ez...@texascavers.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_Part_26643_5004779.1229212064884" References: <1229211975.45217.ez...@texascavers.com> --=_Part_26643_5004779.1229212064884 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 5:46 PM, wrote: > Hi! This is the ezmlm program. I'm managing the > texascavers@texascavers.com mailing list. > > I'm working for my owner, who can be reached > at texascavers-ow...@texascavers.com. > > To confirm that you would like > > jswhite1...@gmail.com > > added to the texascavers mailing list, please send > an empty reply to this address: > > texascavers-sc.1229211975.gbmehiemjgdkmbnifbjp-jswhite1224=gmail.com@ > texascavers.com > > Usually, this happens when you just hit the "reply" button. > If this does not work, simply copy the address and paste it into > the "To:" field of a new message. > > This confirmation serves two purposes. First, it verifies that I am able > to get mail through to you. Second, it protects you in case someone > forges a subscription request in your name. > > Some mail programs are broken and cannot handle long addresses. If you > cannot reply to this request, instead send a message to > and put the > entire address listed above into the "Subject:" line. > > > --- Administrative commands for the texascavers list --- > > I can handle administrative requests automatically. Please > do not send them to the list address! Instead, send > your message to the correct command address:
RE: [Texascavers] On the value of outreach
What Bill says below is a big reason for the International Congress of Speleology (ICS). Have you considered leading or helping to lead a caving trip for the ICS, which runs from 19-26 July 2009 in Kerrville? Travis Scott and Joe Mitchell are organizing caving trips for the ICS and need trip leaders and co-leaders. In addition to just the fun of such trips, ICS trip leaders are often invited to go caving internationally to some fantastic caves and areas they never considered or thought accessible. Though you'd have to pay your overseas, caver hosts often provide lodging, in-country transportation, and some meals to reduce the overall expense. I can't promise this would happen if you lead a trip, but I've seen it happen many times at past Congresses. While the ICS is several months away, preparations for trips need to be made now. To help or for more information, contact Travis and Joe at: Travis Scott: tra...@oztotl.com Joe Mitchell: joemitch...@satx.rr.com Thanks, George From: Bill Bentley [mailto:ca...@caver.net] Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 5:49 PM To: Cavers Texas Subject: Re: [Texascavers] On the value of outreach I also think it is important that every caver go on a cave trip at least once with a group of cavers that he doesn't know or just met. It can give you a better perspective of how other groups go caving. From the tone of the trip, expertise, to the techniques used, and to how people interact. I have done this before and besides being interesting, it can be fun.
[Texascavers] Bexar Grotto Xmas Party tonight (Sat, Dec 13)
Folks, This is just a reminder that the Bexar Grotto Holiday Party is tonight at 6 pm at the Schindel's at 11310 Whisper Dawn, San Antonio, TX 78230 210-479-2151. Call for directions. Geary and Sue
[Texascavers] Newbie social issues
--- On Sat, 12/13/08, Thomas Sitch wrote: >It’s the social component (welcoming,> conversation, Posse talk, etc.) where I >think we can be more mindful, and that involves everyone in a collective >effort. > Thomas, I agree. Navigating the Posse social scene can be a bit awkward for a newbie. But having everyone just be mindful that we ought to be doing more is not likely to have much of an effect on the problem. If we have an issue with welcoming newbies as a grotto, perhaps it should be addressed by the grotto. As you know, Matt, Wes, Jean and Aimee and a lot of other people over the years have put a lot of time and effort in organizing, leading and maintaining ongoing newbie training trips, with hopes that newbies will show up for training and their participation would help them get started socially. If we, as a grotto, feel that we need to do more to address newbie social issues, maybe we do need a Newbie Greeter. Was this idea ever brought up at a grotto meeting? A greeter could take responsibility for directing the newbie over to the Posse, helping them find a seat with the group, and help to introduce the newbie to the other cavers at the table. If the newbie doesn't want to go to the Posse, the greeter can just discuss the events on the caving calendar, and see if they need to be referred to a trip leader. Great topic to discuss at a grotto meeting. Terri - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] news from Antarctica (slightly off-topic)
bot news received via 8 kb/s Internet connection from Bill Stone... :) Begin forwarded message: David - Vickie and Rachel have a new website up on ENDURANCE. Pass it around to all our Austin friends. http://www.stoneaerospace.com/news-/news-antarctica08-Nov26.php Bill West Lake Bonney Taylor Valley Antarctica - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[ot_caving] RE: [Texascavers] OT - price of gas
Louise from Medford said: >I don't ever expect to see $.99 in this state again. That's because Oregonians have to pay for full service, which I find really curious. (For those too young, that means a guy comes out and takes your credit card, inserts it into the pump, and fills your tank for you. You're not allowed to do it yourself. (I was in Astoria last week...) Alex -- Alex Sproul NSS 8086RL/FE NSS Webmaster - Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: ot-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: ot-h...@texascavers.com
Fwd: texascavers Digest 13 Dec 2008 02:30:38 -0000 Issue 668
-- Forwarded message -- From: List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: 2008/12/12 Subject: texascavers Digest 13 Dec 2008 02:30:38 - Issue 668 To: texascavers@texascavers.com texascavers Digest 13 Dec 2008 02:30:38 - Issue 668 Topics (messages 9675 through 9682): unorganized diatribe 9675 by: William H. Russell 9676 by: Diana Tomchick county cavers 9677 by: Mixon Bill 9678 by: Bill Bentley-Webmail On the value of outreach 9679 by: Thomas Sitch 9680 by: Bill Bentley-Webmail Barton Springs Edwards Aquifer District Declares Critical Stage Drought 9681 by: Jules Jenkins Thomas - UT Grotto Newbie Herder 9682 by: Terri Sprouse Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: -- -- Forwarded message -- From: "William H. Russell" To: List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:39:31 -0600 Subject: unorganized diatribe Ediger has long thought there are large numbers of unknown "cavers" that can be brought into organized caving, with a benefit both to both groups. This has not proved to be the case. For many years Ediger preached that we should reach out to the unorganized by including them in the TSA weather they knew it or not. To do this he watered down the membership requirements of the TSA to essentially anyone who had thought about going into a cave. The inability of the TSA to define their membership, collect dues, and perform other essential functions finally made the TSA abandon this idea. Curiosity is a basic human attribute, and across Texas many people who hear about a local cave will go out to explore. They aren't cavers, they are just curious. The vast majority have no interest in spending time learning more about caves, joining a grotto, or anything else that would make them a caver. A very few do find caves to be of special interest, and thanks to the internet can quickly and easily find out about organized caving. And, organized caving should be ready to welcome them. This is organized caving's obligation to the unorganized. To spend money, time and resources to attempt to reach everyone who has an even fleeting interest in caves will not benefit organized cavers or anyone else. Most people, even in rural areas, are slightly interested in many things. They go to the movies, but do not want to join a film club. They take pictures, but do not want to join a photography club. To be a caver one should have a special interest in caves. These are the people who will train the new generation of cavers and carry on the traditions of caving. These are the people who will keep caving from becoming an "introverted little clique." Ediger needs to realize that there is not "a much larger number of Texas cavers" that can be organized into productive members of the TSA. If we want to be worthy of the idea of organized caving, we need to welcome and encourage the new cavers that come forward. I think this will provide enough challenge to these who actually want to "get somewhere." Bill Russell -- William Hart Russell 4806 Red River Street Austin, TX 78751 H: 512-453-4774 (messages) CELL: 512-940-8336 -- Forwarded message -- From: Diana Tomchick To: William H. Russell List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:04:53 -0600 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] unorganized diatribe What Bill states here agrees with the experience of the DFW grotto officers over the last few years. As Secretary/Newsletter Editor, I send (free of charge) monthly electronic newsletters out to both members and anyone else who expresses interest. This includes people on CaveTex, visitors to grotto meetings and people who contact me via email who express interest in caving and the grotto. We do this in hopes of convincing some of these people to continue to be interested in caving, going caving with us, attending meetings or caving events, etc. The number of people that we get that actually continue to express any interest in any of these activities is extremely small. Not that there's anything wrong with that; if a person isn't interested enough to actually go on a wild caving trip somewhere, then they probably aren't going to want to go to the trouble and expense to obtain the gear to become an organized caver. I tend to think of my efforts as educational, in some aspect. As Bill said, people are curious, and by giving them a free newsletter or two, that seems to satisfy most people. No sense in being overly secretive and hiding what it means to be a caver. But expecting everyone who expresses some interest in the activity to actually want to do it (and do it in an organized way) is hopelessly optimistic, whether the activity is caving or mountain biking or scrapboo
Re: [Texascavers] On the value of outreach
Hi Bill, Bravo! I think that speaks to my motivation for posting on outreach. We have a truly incredible community here, and the infrastructure built by cavers in Texas is beyond remarkable. Our relations with landowners, cities, parks, state government, and the many conservancies has been built over decades, and we need new generations and new blood to pass those torches on to. ~~T --- On Fri, 12/12/08, Bill Bentley wrote: From: Bill Bentley Subject: Re: [Texascavers] On the value of outreach To: "Cavers Texas" List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 6:48 PM Thomas, On a recent cave trip we had some new younger members help us in a cave dig. (They joined the PBSS Grotto later), They not only made me feel young through their exuberance, but I thought one of them was going to fall on the ground and start hollering "we're not worthy"!. It made me feel weird to have young cavers admiring me because I have been caving for a long while. I am glad to see the new young people get interested in caving. I have been a member of the NSS since 1981. I can honestly say that the PBSS has always made all new comers feel welcome no matter what their experience level is, or their age. We have never had the luxury of so many members that anyone could ever be selective or splinter off into niche groups. I also think it is important that every caver go on a cave trip at least once with a group of cavers that he doesn't know or just met. It can give you a better perspective of how other groups go caving. From the tone of the trip, expertise, to the techniques used, and to how people interact. I have done this before and besides being interesting, it can be fun. I know what you mean about feeling out of place in a different group. I just persevered and eventually as they say..."They have no choice but to accept you, cause you won't go away" Bill - Original Message - From: Thomas Sitch To: Cavers Texas Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 5:54 PM Subject: [Texascavers] On the value of outreach Okay, a little background. I’ve been caving since I was 7 or 8, when my dad and brother and I explored lava tubes we found by the road or sea caves along the coast in California . Around age twelve I convinced my dad to join the NSS, and we became part of the SoCal Grotto that met at CalTech in Pasadena . I’ve been a casual (but registered) caver ever since, some 20 years now. Please understand that what follows is the most constructive of criticism. I love cavers, I enjoy hanging out with my fellow cavers, and many of the best adventures I’ve had or seen have been part of going to, returning from, or exploring a cave. I also love grotto meetings: I’ve seen slide shows of cavers treed by jaguars (looking down), stalactites shot through with silver and precious minerals, and ancient caves in the Philippines with aboriginal dugout coffins piled up. I (very courteously) disagree with Mixon’s point that there’s a clique for everybody. That’s not really how it looks from the outside. It was very hard to “break in” and feel welcome at the UT Grotto. There were some people who went out of the way to do so (such as Jean, or Aimee) and I will always feel incredible gratitude to them for that. Now I know lots of people and count many friends and it’s a good time, but I see a lot of new people show up and sit largely excluded. Despite the fact that UT is the largest public university in the country, I believe our current number of actual current students can be counted on two hands; maybe just one. We can do better than that. Cavers have a common frame of reference. We’ve had adventures together, and that makes a camaraderie not unlike being old war buddies. That makes it very comfortable to sit with your friends and talk about old or new trips, and uncomfortable to look to new faces. Also, some cavers have very strong views on politics and religion, and this makes for a “self selecting group,” since some people feel unwelcome. As much as I think sacrifices to Oztotl should be mandatory*, being respectful of a diverse set of viewpoints is a better way to go. The tough stick it out, sure. Once people go on trips and gain the trust of the Old Guard they, too, have a common frame of reference. But we lose a lot of good people long before that, and we lose the other good people that they would refer to the world of the dedicated adventuring caver. My point here is that for the good of the caving community we should do more to seek out and welcome new blood. If everyone makes an effort – a conscious effort- to engage new people, we’ll grow and be better for it as a community. Best Regards, ~~Thomas * Joking --- On Fri, 12/12/08, Mixon Bill wrote: From: Mixon Bill Subject: [Texascavers] county cavers To: "Cavers Texas" List-Post:
Re: [Texascavers] Thomas - UT Grotto Newbie Herder
Ha ha! Matt Zapitello and I had this exact discussion several months ago at lunch. My answer’s the same: Everyone needs to be the newbie greeter. Now, just to be clear, I think that we kick ass as a grotto, and we have a lot of beginner trips and a lot of great opportunities that are presented at every meeting (Colorado Bend with Crash, various cool Peter Sprouse expeditions etc.). It’s the social component (welcoming, conversation, Posse talk, etc.) where I think we can be more mindful, and that involves everyone in a collective effort. ~~T --- On Fri, 12/12/08, Terri Sprouse wrote: From: Terri Sprouse Subject: [Texascavers] Thomas - UT Grotto Newbie Herder To: "Cavers Texas" , dreadfl...@yahoo.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 8:30 PM Thomas, Sounds like you just volunteered to take over the role of Newbie Herder for the grotto. Should we vote on it at the next meeting? I agree, the reality is that the best way to get to know cavers is to go on a caving trip with them. I wonder how many people who come to the grotto meeting have not been on a caving trip. We need a point person for the UT Grotto to follow-up with our newbies to ensure that they GET ON A TRIP, even if its just locally to Whirlpool. That is really what opens the door, socially. After a series of training trips, most newbies either bond with other cavers, or they won't. It's up to them. Not that the rest of us won't have to make an effort too but, in addition, I think we could really use someone who is designated to follow-up - to absolutely make sure that the invitation (and possibly follow-up invitations) to go on trips is personally made to each of the newbies. Could that person be you, Thomas? --- On Fri, 12/12/08, Thomas Sitch wrote: > > It was very hard to “break in” and feel welcome at the > UT Grotto. There were some people who went out of the way > to do so (such as Jean, or Aimee) and I will always feel > incredible gratitude to them for that. Now I know lots of > people and count many friends and it’s a good time, but I > see a lot of new people show up and sit largely excluded. > > > The tough stick it out, sure. Once people go on trips and > gain the trust of the Old Guard they, too, have a common > frame of reference. But we lose a lot of good people long > before that, and we lose the other good people that they > would refer to the world of the dedicated adventuring caver. > > My point here is that for the good of the caving community > we should do more to seek out and welcome new blood. If > everyone makes an effort – a conscious effort- to engage > new people, we’ll grow and be better for it as a > community. > > Best Regards, > > ~~Thomas > - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
