[Texascavers] More on Heated Bat Houses for WNS
Nancy Weaver said: How on earth have bats managed to survive so long without thoughtful human intervention? Or any other part of nature? Good thing we can now remedy nature's poor planning. It might not have been nature's poor planning. No one knows where WNS came from. We don't know if it the fungus associated with WNS is the cause of the problem or a symptom, merely taking advantage of bats distressed by some other factor. If something else is weakening bats in the first place, it could be something manmade, like a pesticide. If we caused the problem, it is not unreasonable for us to try to remedy it, although obviously heated bat houses do not address the root cause, whatever it is. For another article on the heated bat houses see http://blogs.discovery.com/news_animal/2009/03/hibernating-cave-bats-receive-heaters.html. Mark Minton - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] More on Heated Bat Houses for WNS
I sortof like the scenario of bats developing into a co-dependent relationship with humans - like a parallel of the wolf's transformation into dogs - how about Chiroptera Familiaris? Imagine the range of Chihuahua to Great Dane applied to flying mammals! Look - I taught my bat to catch a frisbee! -Batmanuel On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 9:07 AM, Minton, Mark mmin...@nmhu.edu wrote: Nancy Weaver said: How on earth have bats managed to survive so long without thoughtful human intervention? Or any other part of nature? Good thing we can now remedy nature's poor planning. It might not have been nature's poor planning. No one knows where WNS came from. We don't know if it the fungus associated with WNS is the cause of the problem or a symptom, merely taking advantage of bats distressed by some other factor. If something else is weakening bats in the first place, it could be something manmade, like a pesticide. If we caused the problem, it is not unreasonable for us to try to remedy it, although obviously heated bat houses do not address the root cause, whatever it is. For another article on the heated bat houses see http://blogs.discovery.com/news_animal/2009/03/hibernating-cave-bats-receive-heaters.html . Mark Minton - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Bat Box Curmudgeons
Hey, Did anyone who spouted off on this actually read the article first? It's about attempting to mitigate the effects of white-nose syndrome, which is decimating bat populations and has seen a lot of discussion on this list. I'm surprised to see cavers being derisively laissez- faire about it. Thanks, Crash, for the informative response. Ed - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [NMCAVER] Heated Bat Houses for WNS
Some people have expressed doubts that the heated bat house proposal is worthwhile. Here is Jim Kennedy's response from the Texascavers email list. Jim works for Bat Conservation International in Austin. I think it is more about feeling good, than actually doing good... Absolutely not Conservation money is in extremely short supply right now, in this uncertain economy. Bat conservation is an even lower funding priority than almost everything else I can think of. One of the biggest hurdles in figuring out what is killing off 90% of all the bats in the East (and soon, likely, the rest of the country), is the LACK of money for necessary research. In fact, some of the very questions being asked (such as "Are the bats going in to hibernation with adequate body weight, or are they starving even before entering hibernation?" and "Is this fungus actually a new species, or is it widespread and just never identified until now?") are pretty simple baseline types of information that we should have been collecting for years, if only we had unlimited budgets to do the research to answer those kinds of questions. But the reality is that we do not, and will not in the foreseeable future. Even in Texas I can't tell you how many bats of what species we have in our caves, because NO ONE IS DOING THAT RESEARCH. Even for the big, popular freetail caves that obviously contribute to our environmental well-being as well as our economic health, we only have a rough idea of numbers and no clue about whether those populations are stable, declining, or (unlikely) increasing. For other species, even the common cave myotis, entire cave populations could be disappearing and we wouldn't even know. So whatever efforts are being tried to stem the tide of WNS mortality, you can bet there is at least a pretty good chance that it has a good chance of success. We don't have the luxury of trying ideas that we know are foolish.- Mark Minton ___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net
[Texascavers] TCMA Auction at TSA Spring Convention
Greetings, cavers! This is Crash, your manic Auctioneer, here to drum up support for the TCMA fundraising auction to be held Saturday 25 April at Schreiner Park in Kerrville during the TSA Spring Convention. For you past Auction attendees, you will recall how entertaining the Auction can be, and how much really good stuff gets donated to sell. And it's for a great cause: raising money to help pay off the mortgage to TCMA's Carta Valley preserve, which holds the world-class Punkin and Deep Caves. And we all know that cavers buying caves benefits us all! In the past we have auctioned off brand new ropes, historic caving ephemera, new caving and camping gear, weekends at nice BBs, ultralight airplane flights, hardcore (and softcore) cave trips, home-brewed beer, original artwork, and so much more. Last year I believe we raised over $3700. This year we are pushing to finish paying off the mortgage for the Punkin and Deep property, so we want to make this auction even better! We need some volunteers to solicit, store, and transport donations to the Convention site. We need cavers like yourselves to donate items to sell, or talk to your local businesses for donations of items (or money) to help with this fundraiser. And, of course, we need all of you to come to the Convention, and bid on items during the Auction. Contact me, Joe Ranzau (Auction treasurer), or any other TCMA board member if you have questions or would like to volunteer (http://www.tcmacaves.org). We'll have fun, there will be some surprises, and we'll help secure two great caves for our use. I hope to see you there, and remember, bid high, and bid often! Jim Crash Kennedy Confidentiality Note: This email and any attachment to it are confidential and protected by law and intended for the use of the individual(s) or entity named on the email. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination or distribution of this communication is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender via return email and delete it completely from your email system. If you have printed a copy of the email, please destroy it immediately. Thank you
texascavers Digest 6 Mar 2009 16:58:01 -0000 Issue 720
texascavers Digest 6 Mar 2009 16:58:01 - Issue 720 Topics (messages 10289 through 10309): contacting Preston Knodell 10289 by: vauterb.aol.com well rescue in Mexico 10290 by: Antonio Aguirre Alvarez 10291 by: Don Cooper 10292 by: Lyndon Tiu PNW Forest Service gears up for WNS 10293 by: Louise Power carbon monoxide cave rescue 10294 by: Mixon Bill Volunteering for Convention 10295 by: Preston Forsythe 10296 by: Minton, Mark [Found on web] [Bat Box Heaters Could Save Animals' Lives] 10297 by: Don Arburn heaters for bats 10298 by: Mixon Bill 10300 by: Minton, Mark 10301 by: Nancy Weaver 10302 by: Bill Bentley-Webmail 10303 by: Philip L Moss 10305 by: Jim Kennedy 10308 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net Re: Male Student from Belgium interested in caving 10299 by: Robert B More on Heated Bat Houses for WNS 10304 by: Minton, Mark 10306 by: Don Cooper Re: Bat Box Curmudgeons 10307 by: Ed Goff TCMA Auction at TSA Spring Convention 10309 by: Jim Kennedy Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com To post to the list, e-mail: texascavers@texascavers.com -- ---BeginMessage--- Preston, Please call Brian Vauter or Travis Wuest at Natural Bridge Caverns 210-651-6101 ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- Last monday, ppl from the Mexican Red Cross and Espeleo Rescate Mexico from San Luis Potosi and Queretaro were called to rescue 6 ppl who died inside in a well. Two workers were tryng to dry a tunel with a gasoline powered pump. They died fast because the CO. The owner and his wife tried to rescue them but died too. The emergency groups were called then. So, 3 ppl enter the well. 2 firefighters and a 1 paramedic from Red Cross. Just 1 fireman scape from the inside. The other 2 rescuers died. The crew begins to work at tuesday 3am. The rescue was successfull the same day at 1600hrs. here is a note in english with some inaccuracy: http://www.emsresponder.com/article/article.jsp?id=9088siteSection=1 Soon, ofical report and pics in the ERM web site. _ Windows Live™: Life without walls. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_allup_1a_explore_032009---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- WHY does this story repeat itself? In striking similarity - has this not happened at least a couple of other times in recent years? -WaV On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 5:25 PM, Antonio Aguirre Alvarez nelfas...@hotmail.com wrote: Last monday, ppl from the Mexican Red Cross and Espeleo Rescate Mexico from San Luis Potosi and Queretaro were called to rescue 6 ppl who died inside in a well. Two workers were tryng to dry a tunel with a gasoline powered pump. They died fast because the CO. The owner and his wife tried to rescue them but died too. The emergency groups were called then. So, 3 ppl enter the well. 2 firefighters and a 1 paramedic from Red Cross. Just 1 fireman scape from the inside. The other 2 rescuers died. The crew begins to work at tuesday 3am. The rescue was successfull the same day at 1600hrs. here is a note in english with some inaccuracy: http://www.emsresponder.com/article/article.jsp?id=9088siteSection=1 Soon, ofical report and pics in the ERM web site. -- Windows Live™: Life without walls. Check it out.http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_allup_1a_explore_032009 ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- Failure to heed safe operating instructions means this will happen again and again. Happened a few times in Houston last September when people ran their generators inside the house or garage, with the garage door closed. A related subject are people who die painting the insides of tanks. On Wed, 4 Mar 2009 20:58:58 -0600 wavyca...@gmail.com wrote: WHY does this story repeat itself? In striking similarity - has this not happened at least a couple of other times in recent years? -- Lyndon Tiu ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- Just thought you might like to see this message from Pat Ormsbee, Bat Ecologist on the Willamette National Forest. Looks like they're gearing up to keep an eye on the bats here in the Pacific NW. If you want to keep in touch with her on this, her FS e-mail address is at the bottom of this message. Louise Power Finance Tech Medford District Office 541-618-2211 - Forwarded by Louise Power/MDFO/OR/BLM/DOI on 03/05/2009 08:27 AM - Subject A message from Pat Ormsbee re: WNS The following is a message from Pat Ormsbee - Bat Ecologist on the Willamette National Forest regarding some of the information she has obtained
[Texascavers] disappearing bats
For other species, even the common cave myotis, entire cave populations could be disappearing and we wouldn't even know. I agree, but that's not a very good statement about the environmental importance of bats --Mixon - He who renders warfare fatal to all engaged in it will be the greatest benefactor the world has yet known. - Sir Richard Burton -- You may reply to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] RE: heaters for bats
How on earth have bats managed to survive so long without thoughtful human intervention? Or any other part of nature? Good thing we can now remedy nature's poor planning. I wonder what the displacement factor in the production of the heater boxes is - ie how many bats or habitat does it cost environmentally to produce each of these things? Nancy
Re: [Texascavers] RE: heaters for bats
I think it is more about feeling good, than actually doing good... Bill Quoting Nancy Weaver nan...@io.com: How on earth have bats managed to survive so long without thoughtful human intervention? Or any other part of nature? Good thing we can now remedy nature's poor planning. I wonder what the displacement factor in the production of the heater boxes is - ie how many bats or habitat does it cost environmentally to produce each of these things? Nancy - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] RE: heaters for bats
On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 08:39:54 -0600 Nancy Weaver nan...@io.com writes: How on earth have bats managed to survive so long without thoughtful human intervention? Or any other part of nature? Good thing we can now remedy nature's poor planning. I wonder what the displacement factor in the production of the heater boxes is - ie how many bats or habitat does it cost environmentally to produce each of these things? Nancy I can only hope that I missed the point of this email. However, if the author is serious then the answer seems obvious to me. Nature did fine without us and natural systems have been altered severely by humans. In order to prevent some of the most extreme consequences of human action, such as anthropogenic causes of the extinction of species, then additional human intervention is required to counter other human intervention. As long as there is a significant human population, management is required. Whatever it may be called, land management, ecosystem management, or cave management, ultimately what is being managed is human behavior. A disclaimer: I have not read about the bat heaters and I am not commenting on that particular strategy. Philip L. Moss philipm...@juno.com Hit it out of the park with a new bat. Click now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTNfqHvZRK2P4ehx0w2gOed0bSn1nrVP0yJ1j7OBFiK0M245cwi8aU/
[Texascavers] RE: heaters for bats
Absolutely not Conservation money is in extremely short supply right now, in this uncertain economy. Bat conservation is an even lower funding priority than almost everything else I can think of. One of the biggest hurdles in figuring out what is killing off 90% of all the bats in the East (and soon, likely, the rest of the country), is the LACK of money for necessary research. In fact, some of the very questions being asked (such as Are the bats going in to hibernation with adequate body weight, or are they starving even before entering hibernation? and Is this fungus actually a new species, or is it widespread and just never identified until now?) are pretty simple baseline types of information that we should have been collecting for years, if only we had unlimited budgets to do the research to answer those kinds of questions. But the reality is that we do not, and will not in the foreseeable future. Even in Texas I can't tell you how many bats of what species we have in our caves, because NO ONE IS DOING THAT RESEARCH. Even for the big, popular freetail caves that obviously contribute to our environmental well-being as well as our economic health, we only have a rough idea of numbers and no clue about whether those populations are stable, declining, or (unlikely) increasing. For other species, even the common cave myotis, entire cave populations could be disappearing and we wouldn't even know. So whatever efforts are being tried to stem the tide of WNS mortality, you can bet there is at least a pretty good chance that it has a good chance of success. We don't have the luxury of trying ideas that we know are foolish. Jim Crash Kennedy Cave Resources Specialist Bat Conservation International ... and passionate lover of all caves and their contents -Original Message- From: Bill Bentley-Webmail [mailto:ca...@caver.net] Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 8:35 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] RE: heaters for bats I think it is more about feeling good, than actually doing good... - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: Re: [Texascavers] RE: heaters for bats
You mean this isn't about concealed carry for bats?T. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] RE: heaters for bats
Actually, there has been quite a bit of recent research about the white fungus found on bats, and it's been published. Please see the following article published in Science: Originally published in Science Express on 30 October 2008 Science 9 January 2009: Vol. 323. no. 5911, p. 227 DOI: 10.1126/science.1163874 Bat White-Nose Syndrome: An Emerging Fungal Pathogen? David S. Blehert,1* Alan C. Hicks,2 Melissa Behr,3 Carol U. Meteyer,1 Brenda M. Berlowski-Zier,1Elizabeth L. Buckles,4 Jeremy T. H. Coleman,5 Scott R. Darling,6 Andrea Gargas,7 Robyn Niver, 5Joseph C. Okoniewski,2 Robert J. Rudd,3 Ward B. Stone2 White-nose syndrome (WNS) is a condition associated with an unprecedented bat mortality event in the northeastern United States. Since the winter of 2006*2007, bat declines exceeding 75% have been observed at surveyed hibernacula. Affected bats often present with visually striking white fungal growth on their muzzles, ears, and/or wing membranes. Direct microscopy and culture analyses demonstrated that the skin of WNS-affected bats is colonized by a psychro-philic fungus that is phylogeneticallyrelated to Geomyces spp. but with a conidial morphology distinct from characterized members of this genus. This report characterizes the cutaneous fungal infection associated with WNS. 1 National Wildlife Health Center, U.S. Geological Survey (USGS), 6006 Schroeder Road, Madison, WI 53711, USA. 2 New York Department of Environmental Conservation, 625 Broadway, Albany, NY 12233, USA. 3 New York Department of Health, Post Office Box 22002, Albany, NY 12201, USA. 4 Cornell University, VRT T6008, Ithaca, NY 14853, USA. 5 U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, 3817 Luker Road, Cortland, NY 13045, USA. 6 Vermont Fish and Wildlife Department, 271 North Main Street, Rutland, VT 05701, USA. 7 Symbiology Limited Liability Corporation, Middleton, WI 53562, USA. Present address: Wisconsin Veterinary Diagnostic Laboratory, 445 Easterday Lane, Madison, WI 53706, USA. * To whom correspondence should be addressed. E-mail: dbleh...@usgs.gov Anyone who wishes a copy of this article as a PDF, write to me personally and I will forward it to you. There are some cool photos of what the fungus is doing to the poor little critters. Diana On Mar 6, 2009, at 9:31 AM, Jim Kennedy wrote: Absolutely not Conservation money is in extremely short supply right now, in this uncertain economy. Bat conservation is an even lower funding priority than almost everything else I can think of. One of the biggest hurdles in figuring out what is killing off 90% of all the bats in the East (and soon, likely, the rest of the country), is the LACK of money for necessary research. In fact, some of the very questions being asked (such as Are the bats going in to hibernation with adequate body weight, or are they starving even before entering hibernation? and Is this fungus actually a new species, or is it widespread and just never identified until now?) are pretty simple baseline types of information that we should have been collecting for years, if only we had unlimited budgets to do the research to answer those kinds of questions. But the reality is that we do not, and will not in the foreseeable future. Even in Texas I can't tell you how many bats of what species we have in our caves, because NO ONE IS DOING THAT RESEARCH. Even for the big, popular freetail caves that obviously contribute to our environmental well- being as well as our economic health, we only have a rough idea of numbers and no clue about whether those populations are stable, declining, or (unlikely) increasing. For other species, even the common cave myotis, entire cave populations could be disappearing and we wouldn't even know. So whatever efforts are being tried to stem the tide of WNS mortality, you can bet there is at least a pretty good chance that it has a good chance of success. We don't have the luxury of trying ideas that we know are foolish. Jim Crash Kennedy Cave Resources Specialist Bat Conservation International ... and passionate lover of all caves and their contents -Original Message- From: Bill Bentley-Webmail [mailto:ca...@caver.net] Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 8:35 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] RE: heaters for bats I think it is more about feeling good, than actually doing good... - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Diana R. Tomchick Associate Professor University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center Department of Biochemistry 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Rm. ND10.214B Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A. Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu 214-645-6383 (phone)
[Texascavers] RE: heaters for bats
No problem, Bill. I wasn't singling you out. But WNS, and bat conservation I general, is a serious business that is increasingly difficult. It's not a problem to make appropriate jokes, as humor can ease tensions in these stressful situations. But to insinuate that the suggestions being made are frivolous just made me realize that I haven't been spreading the bat word very well around my fellow cavers. I mean, BCI (and me) are right here in Texas, yet I often overlook my role in providing the educational outreach with all the other crises that are going on. What I really need to do is to forward more news releases and so on to CaveTex, and write more little awareness emails myself. -- Jim -Original Message- From: Bill Bentley [mailto:ca...@caver.net] Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 1:05 PM To: Jim Kennedy Subject: Re: heaters for bats Sorry Jim I did not intend to make anyone mad... Me thinks I should have kept my mouth shut...Foot in mouth disease... - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] RE: heaters for bats
Even in Texas I can't tell you how many bats of what species we have in our caves, because NO ONE IS DOING THAT RESEARCH. Even for the big, popular freetail caves that obviously contribute to our environmental well- being as well as our economic health, we only have a rough idea of numbers and no clue about whether those populations are stable, declining, or (unlikely) increasing. Given the relatively high number of cavers in Texas and the relatively low numbers of publicly accessible caves, wouldn't it be possible to put some of those cavers to use as volunteers for bat monitoring? I'd love to do this kind of volunteer work, but I don't know who to contact in the bat research field. Maybe someone at BCI would know? Diana * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Diana R. Tomchick Associate Professor University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center Department of Biochemistry 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Rm. ND10.214B Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A. Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu 214-645-6383 (phone) 214-645-6353 (fax) - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] RE: heaters for bats
This sounds like a great project idea, Jim! Is there anything like this occurring? Is this something the TSA could get involved in? Sounds like a great program at the Convention, huh, Diane? Mark -Original Message- From: Diana Tomchick [mailto:diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu] Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 1:38 PM To: Jim Kennedy Cc: Bill Bentley-Webmail; texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] RE: heaters for bats Even in Texas I can't tell you how many bats of what species we have in our caves, because NO ONE IS DOING THAT RESEARCH. Even for the big, popular freetail caves that obviously contribute to our environmental well- being as well as our economic health, we only have a rough idea of numbers and no clue about whether those populations are stable, declining, or (unlikely) increasing. Given the relatively high number of cavers in Texas and the relatively low numbers of publicly accessible caves, wouldn't it be possible to put some of those cavers to use as volunteers for bat monitoring? I'd love to do this kind of volunteer work, but I don't know who to contact in the bat research field. Maybe someone at BCI would know? Diana * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Diana R. Tomchick Associate Professor University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center Department of Biochemistry 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Rm. ND10.214B Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A. Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu 214-645-6383 (phone) 214-645-6353 (fax) - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] RE: heaters for bats
Contact Meg Goodwin with the TPWD. She is the Texas Bat Biologist. Even in here Houston there are several known bat roosts that are monitored regularly by volunteers including me and some of my students. There are two roosts within 3 miles of my home and school. There is also an educational program contained in a hugh foot locker available to schools. Something fun is sit around with a bat detector. This one I use with an external speaker added to it. http://home.netcom.com/~t-rex/BatDetector.html I tell my neighbors it is an Alien Detector. Let the fun begin. Later, ~F~ Even in Texas I can't tell you how many bats of what species we have in our caves, because NO ONE IS DOING THAT RESEARCH. Even for the big, popular freetail caves that obviously contribute to our environmental well- being as well as our economic health, we only have a rough idea of numbers and no clue about whether those populations are stable, declining, or (unlikely) increasing. Given the relatively high number of cavers in Texas and the relatively low numbers of publicly accessible caves, wouldn't it be possible to put some of those cavers to use as volunteers for bat monitoring? I'd love to do this kind of volunteer work, but I don't know who to contact in the bat research field. Maybe someone at BCI would know? Diana * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Diana R. Tomchick Associate Professor University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center Department of Biochemistry 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Rm. ND10.214B Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A. Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu 214-645-6383 (phone) 214-645-6353 (fax) - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] RE: Texas bats
Meg has not worked for TPWD for about 2 years now. From: wa5...@peoplepc.com [mailto:wa5...@peoplepc.com] Sent: Fri 3/6/2009 6:06 PM To: TSA Cavers Subject: Re: [Texascavers] RE: heaters for bats Contact Meg Goodwin with the TPWD. She is the Texas Bat Biologist.
[Texascavers] RE: Texas bats
Thanks Jim, too bad, she is a great person. I have an alternative person to contact for the lastest info. I'll get on that. Later, ~F~ Meg has not worked for TPWD for about 2 years now. From: wa5...@peoplepc.com [mailto:wa5...@peoplepc.com] Sent: Fri 3/6/2009 6:06 PM To: TSA Cavers Subject: Re: [Texascavers] RE: heaters for bats Contact Meg Goodwin with the TPWD. She is the Texas Bat Biologist. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[NMCAVER] Seamgrip for caving
http://darkfrontier.us/technology/ ___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net
Re: [NMCAVER] Seamgrip for caving
Can you please remove me from this mailing list. Thank You, Jon Hancock - Original Message - From: nmcaver-boun...@caver.net nmcaver-boun...@caver.net To: nmca...@caver.net nmca...@caver.net Sent: Fri Mar 06 20:56:51 2009 Subject: [NMCAVER] Seamgrip for caving http://darkfrontier.us/technology/ ___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net ___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net
[Texascavers] Scientist study rare Alabama cave fish :
Cave home to one of world's rarest fish By _Dennis Sherer_ (mailto:dennis.she...@timesdaily.com) Staff Writer Published: Friday, March 6, 2009 at 3:30 a.m. Last Modified: Thursday, March 5, 2009 at 11:10 p.m. There are lots of caves around the world, but only one where the Alabama cavefish lives. Key Cave, which overlooks Pickwick Lake, is the only place on Earth where the small, colorless fish has been found. Scientists from around the Southeast descended into the limestone cave west of Florence on Thursday, searching for Alabama cavefish and other aquatic a nimals. While high water levels in the cave caused by last week's rain made it difficult for scientists to dive in the cave's pools, they were able to locate two Alabama cave fish and several cave crayfish. The water in the cave is up about three feet. The cave passages are narrow at the top, and when the water is this high, there's not much room left to snorkel, said Bernie Kahajda, collections manager for the Department of Biological Sciences, Biodiversity and Systematics, at the University of Alabama in Tuscaloosa. He spent more than an hour diving in the chilly water of the cave's pools. The recent rain also clouded the water in the cave, making it more difficult to spot the cavefish. The fish Kuhajda spotted escaped into the murky depths before he could capture them. Just seeing the two Alabama cavefish was cause for optimism among the scientists. The Alabama cavefish, which is listed as a critically endangered species by the U.S, Fish and Wildlife Service, is one of the rarest fish in the world. While unsure how many Alabama cavefish live in Key Cave, some scientists estimate there are fewer than 100. Kadhajda said no more than 10 have ever been found during a single visit to the cave. We're not sure if the population is 50, 100 or 1,000, Kadhajda said. We just don't know. Rob Hurt, a biologist for Wheeler National Wildlife Refuge in Decatur, which oversees Key Cave National Wildlife Refuge, said about 12,000 feet of the tunnels in Key Cave have been explored, but many passages have not because they are filled with water. He said geologists are unsure how far the tunnels stretch. While additional Alabama cavefish could live in parts of the cave that are inaccessible to humans or in the aquifer beneath the maze of caverns, Kahajda suspects most live near the entrance. He said the fish, which have no external eyes and rely on chemical sensors along their bodies to locate food and other cavefish, feed on tiny aquatic animals that live in the cave's pools. The small crustaceans that provide food for the fish and crayfish feed on bacteria that grows on feces of bats that live in the cave. The bats are a main input of energy for the cave. One of our main concerns is that if anything ever happened to the colony of gray bats, it could disrupt the food chain of the cave, Kahajda said. A chain-link fence around the mouth of the cave helps protects the bats and fish. The cave is not open to the public. Additional risks are urban sprawl and chemical spills around the many sinkholes in the area that drain into the cave. Tennessee Valley Authority biologist Damien Simbeck said if some chemicals made their way into the cave's pools, it could affect the cavefish's ability to feed and reproduce. The chemicals could throw off their system and they would not be able to find food or each other, he said. In addition, if the woodlands and fields in the area around the cave were bulldozed and paved, it could reduce the amount of water draining into the caverns and harm the fish, Kahajda said. Kahajda said there is no reason to ban development around the cave, but it needs to be monitored. He said building a subdivision equipped with a storm sewer system near the cave could harm the cave's pools. But building a subdivision where rain water was allowed to flow and drain naturally would not be a major threat. You can still have development. It just needs to be smart development. The 1,060-acre Key Cave Wildlife Refuge, which was established in 1997, helps protect the cave from pollution and development. Several of the cave's known passages lie beneath the refuge. _http://www.timesdaily.com/article/20090306/ARTICLES/903065026/1011/NEWS?Title =Cave-home-to-one-of-world-s-rarest-fish_ (http://www.timesdaily.com/article/20090306/ARTICLES/903065026/1011/NEWS?Title=Cave-home-to-one-of-world-s-rarest- fish) **A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219957551x1201325337/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62)
[NMCAVER] 100 uses of Seamgrip
100 uses of Seamgrip, the old caver standby. If it does all the things that this says, it should be in the same class as duct tape and bailing wire. http://mcnett.baron-co.com/images/editor/100Uses.pdf - Jon Broholm ___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net
Re: [NMCAVER] 100 uses of Seamgrip
Jon, I am very concerned about you sharing secret male secret secrets with non-males. I believe we may have to call a tribunal. Ladies--please ignore Jon's demented blatherings about duct tape and bailing wire. These products are have no use outside of taping ducts or bailing hay. And there is no such thing as JB Weld, if he ever mentions that, either. It's a myth. These are all the ravings of a deranged mind. Just remember that men are simply better at fixing things, that's all. Jon, we'll deal with you later. - Original Message - From: Jon Broholm jonbroh...@yahoo.com To: nmca...@caver.net, Richard Bohman rbohm...@cox.net, Ryan Gosciejew caveandletc...@yahoo.com, paul mozal pxmo...@hotmail.com, Randy Macan rand...@gmail.com, Carrie Finn caverf...@yahoo.com, Cordell Brown c...@fargate.net, Janae Hunderman jhunder...@bayfield.k12.co.us, Scott Nicolay matari...@frontiernet.net Sent: Friday, March 6, 2009 9:36:08 AM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain Subject: 100 uses of Seamgrip 100 uses of Seamgrip, the old caver standby. If it does all the things that this says, it should be in the same class as duct tape and bailing wire. http://mcnett.baron-co.com/images/editor/100Uses.pdf - Jon Broholm ___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net
Re: [NMCAVER] 100 uses of Seamgrip
yeah, what would we do if men stopped fixing things? The recent male caver visitor I had from out east looked at me like I was crazy when I mentioned JB Weld. now I know its just a conspiracy and he wasn't dumb. argh, really I'll get back to packing and start driving soon Jon and Janae :) Jen Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 16:46:59 + From: matari...@frontiernet.net To: jonbroh...@yahoo.com CC: caveandletc...@yahoo.com; jhunder...@bayfield.k12.co.us; c...@fargate.net; caverf...@yahoo.com; nmca...@caver.net; pxmo...@hotmail.com; rand...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [NMCAVER] 100 uses of Seamgrip Jon, I am very concerned about you sharing secret male secret secrets with non-males. I believe we may have to call a tribunal. Ladies--please ignore Jon's demented blatherings about duct tape and bailing wire. These products are have no use outside of taping ducts or bailing hay. And there is no such thing as JB Weld, if he ever mentions that, either. It's a myth. These are all the ravings of a deranged mind. Just remember that men are simply better at fixing things, that's all. Jon, we'll deal with you later. - Original Message - From: Jon Broholm jonbroh...@yahoo.com To: nmca...@caver.net, Richard Bohman rbohm...@cox.net, Ryan Gosciejew caveandletc...@yahoo.com, paul mozal pxmo...@hotmail.com, Randy Macan rand...@gmail.com, Carrie Finn caverf...@yahoo.com, Cordell Brown c...@fargate.net, Janae Hunderman jhunder...@bayfield.k12.co.us, Scott Nicolay matari...@frontiernet.net Sent: Friday, March 6, 2009 9:36:08 AM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain Subject: 100 uses of Seamgrip 100 uses of Seamgrip, the old caver standby. If it does all the things that this says, it should be in the same class as duct tape and bailing wire. http://mcnett.baron-co.com/images/editor/100Uses.pdf - Jon Broholm ___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net _ Windows Live™ Groups: Create an online spot for your favorite groups to meet. http://windowslive.com/online/groups?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_groups_032009___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net
Re: [NMCAVER] 100 uses of Seamgrip
In more traditional cultures, such as in the highlands of Papua New Guinea, JB Weld is kept in the secret men's society hut with the sacred flutes, and no woman is allowed to set eyes on any of these things. In fact, the women are told that the sound of the flutes when they are played is actually the sound of large flightless birds that will peck their eyes out if they go anywhere near the sacred hut. It is sad to see the breakdown of traditional values in our own society. From: jen . [mailto:bigredfo...@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 2:11 PM To: matari...@frontiernet.net; jonbroh...@yahoo.com Cc: caveandletc...@yahoo.com; jhunder...@bayfield.k12.co.us; c...@fargate.net; caverf...@yahoo.com; nmcaver; pxmo...@hotmail.com; rand...@gmail.com Subject: RE: [NMCAVER] 100 uses of Seamgrip yeah, what would we do if men stopped fixing things? The recent male caver visitor I had from out east looked at me like I was crazy when I mentioned JB Weld. now I know its just a conspiracy and he wasn't dumb. argh, really I'll get back to packing and start driving soon Jon and Janae :) Jen Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 16:46:59 + From: matari...@frontiernet.net To: jonbroh...@yahoo.com CC: caveandletc...@yahoo.com; jhunder...@bayfield.k12.co.us; c...@fargate.net; caverf...@yahoo.com; nmca...@caver.net; pxmo...@hotmail.com; rand...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [NMCAVER] 100 uses of Seamgrip Jon, I am very concerned about you sharing secret male secret secrets with non-males. I believe we may have to call a tribunal. Ladies--please ignore Jon's demented blatherings about duct tape and bailing wire. These products are have no use outside of taping ducts or bailing hay. And there is no such thing as JB Weld, if he ever mentions that, either. It's a myth. These are all the ravings of a deranged mind. Just remember that men are simply better at fixing things, that's all. Jon, we'll deal with you later. - Original Message - From: Jon Broholm jonbroh...@yahoo.com To: nmca...@caver.net, Richard Bohman rbohm...@cox.net, Ryan Gosciejew caveandletc...@yahoo.com, paul mozal pxmo...@hotmail.com, Randy Macan rand...@gmail.com, Carrie Finn caverf...@yahoo.com, Cordell Brown c...@fargate.net, Janae Hunderman jhunder...@bayfield.k12.co.us, Scott Nicolay matari...@frontiernet.net Sent: Friday, March 6, 2009 9:36:08 AM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain Subject: 100 uses of Seamgrip 100 uses of Seamgrip, the old caver standby. If it does all the things that this says, it should be in the same class as duct tape and bailing wire. http://mcnett.baron-co.com/images/editor/100Uses.pdf - Jon Broholm ___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net Windows Live Groups: Create an online spot for your favorite groups to meet. Check it out. ___ NMCAVER mailing list nmca...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net
