[Texascavers] Volunteers needed
Cavers, I have need for some help for ICS. First of all, I need a volunteer (or volunteers) to be on the WNS Decon Committee, specifically to pick up the supplies from my house in Austin and take them to Kerrville by Saturday 18 July. This person or persons will be responsible for ensuring that some of the supplies get to Travis Scott, who is organizing the cave trips during the week, in order to place them on the vans and busses that are going to those caves. The volunteer(s) will also be responsible for getting other supplies to Jon Cradit, in order to place them at the campus Washateria and other laundry facilities in the dorms and apartments. The supplies will consist of some big plastic tubs, empty 5-gallon buckets, cases of bleach and Lysol(r) disinfectant, boxes of trash bags, and other sundry items (scrub brushes, Purell(r), etc.), so a pickup truck or SUV would be needed. I will be leading a week-long pre-convention field trip that will end in Kerrville on that Saturday, so I cannot get the supplies to Kerrville on my own. Please let me know by the end of this week if you are available and can do this. The second job is for trip leader(s) for some Colorado Bend State Park trips on Sunday (19 July), Monday (20th), Wednesday (22nd), Thursday (23rd), Saturday (25th) and Sunday (26th). There will be one van heading out there each of those days with up to 12 people. Trip leaders will be responsible for driving the van to the Park, conducting participants to Gorman Falls and several select caves in the Park, and driving back to Kerrville, dropping off participants at the WNS Decon Station and sweeping out the van. These will generally be all-day trips, with a sack lunch. It would be great to have 2 leaders each day. The same leaders can lead trips on as many of those days as you like. You do not have to be familiar with the caves, since we will supply cave maps, coordinates, and other beta, but it helps. Drivers must be over 25, but assistant trip leaders need not be. There will be coolers of beverages on each van. Please let me know ASAP if interested, and cc Travis Scott (tra...@oztotl.com) as well. Thank you all for your interest and support! -- Crash Confidentiality Note: This email and any attachment to it are confidential and protected by law and intended for the use of the individual(s) or entity named on the email. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination or distribution of this communication is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender via return email and delete it completely from your email system. If you have printed a copy of the email, please destroy it immediately. Thank you
[Texascavers] RE: the good old days
Eventually, after a journey of 5,189 miles that took 48 days and used 85 gallons (390 litres) of diesel, the group reached the end of the road at Arki in the Himachal Pradesh. 48 days just to get to there?! And I thought it took us a long time to get J2 going this year! And I agree with Bill Mixon, there's no way an old double-decker bus could get 61 mpg. Mark Minton - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] New NSS WNS Web Page
Forwarded message from Cheryl Jones below. Mark Minton NSS webmaster Alex Sproul has created a Web page for info on the June 4 WNS hearing on Capitol Hill, with a few pictures and links to the video and transcripts, for we don't know how long the page and records will remain on the Natural Resources Committee Web site. http://caves.org/WNS/Hearing%20on%20WNS.htm https://mail.nmhu.edu/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://caves.org/WNS/Hearing%2520on%2520WNS.htm (or go to www.caves.org/WNS https://mail.nmhu.edu/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.caves.org/WNS and click the link) And don't forget to go to the NSS WNS page to watch the new film Battle for Bats. The new USFWS decontamination procedures are now linked from the page as well. And the WNS brochure. And how to donate to the WNS Rapid Response Fund. Yup, it's a one-stop shopping experience for all your WNS info! Cheryl (Please circulate this widely to cavers) - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Mistaken identity
LOL, Mark, did you correct my name in the reply block? It's Sitch, as in, itch (what comes of poison ivy) with an S in front of it :) I need to create the Facebook group I'm not related to Tim Stich, in fact, neither of our names are spelled the same. I only put this out there for all of Cavetex because there have been confusions in membership status and identity between Tim and I. I don't know where the name Stich comes from, but my name, Sitch, is Ukrainian for Screech Owl. Bribed with a margarita, I will be happy to regale any interested party with the story of my prolific ancestor, the Paul Revere of Ukrainian history. My Best Regards, ~~Thomas --- On Mon, 6/8/09, Minton, Mark mmin...@nmhu.edu wrote: Thomas Stich said:
[Texascavers] RE: Mistaken identity
Thomas, I need to create the Facebook group I'm not related to Tim Stich, in fact, neither of our names are spelled the same. Oops, my bad. Sorry about that. I hadn't noticed the difference in spelling, and I have in fact wondered whether you were related to Tim. Thanks for clearing that up. Mark Minton - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] non-bat caves
Maybe you can send cave divers to explore the new sinkhole in Round Rock. Guaranteed no bats. Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 12:36:33 -0500 From: dlocklea...@gmail.com To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] non-bat caves I was just thinking of some caves I have been to that usually don't have many bats. Big Tree Cave ( Langtry Lead Cave ) Langtry Quarry Cave Sally Cave ( Del Rio ) However, I don't like to go to these in the summer time and they are a good drive from Kerrville. Is anybody going off-trail in Cascade Caverns? I am under the impression that off-trail trips are not happening at InnerSpace, Caverns of Sonora, but what about Wonder Cave or does it even have an off-trail passage worth visiting ? On a tourist note, Aquarena Springs is closed now. Right ? David Locklear caver in Fort Bend County - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Fwd: 15th ICS - last chance for early registration!!
Forwarded by Mixon Begin forwarded message: From: ICS 2009 eList secret...@ics2009.us List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: June 8, 2009 4:24:52 PM CDT To: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu Subject: 15th ICS - last chance for early registration!! Dear Friends, This is a final reminder that early registration for the 15th International Congress of Speleology (ICS) closes at midnight on Monday, 8 June 2009. Regular registration will open at the ICS on 18 July 2009. Yes, I have already sent you reminders so why am I reminding you again? 1) This is your last chance to register for one of the fantastic Pre- ICS trips. 2) This is your best chance to register for one of the fantastic Wednesday trips and Post-ICS trips. You can wait to register for these trips at the ICS, but some will be filled by that time. 3) Your early registration is important. We need to finalize many details, such as ordering meals and supplies. Your early registration helps us better estimate our orders so we can spend your registration fees as wisely as possible to better benefit you and the ICS. Over 1,230 people from 51 countries have registered early. This is the largest early registration of any ICS. Come join them at what will be the most significant speleological event in the Western Hemisphere. To register, go now to https://secure.concentric.com/ics2009.us/register/ . See you soon, George George Veni, Ph.D. Chairman, 15th International Congress of Speleology Adjunct Secretary, International Union of Speleology Executive Director, U.S. National Cave and Karst Research Institute - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Disposable caving clothes.
I would like to offer an idea. At many resale or thrift stores, they sell cotton work overalls for around $ 9. Instead of spending a lot of time and money doing WNS decon, why not just buy some of these overalls, and give each caver one for each cave they visit. Or maybe someone could offer them for sale at ICS ? After the convention, someone can take them all to a big laundromat and then donate the overalls back to the store, or try to sell them as convention souvenirs. After all, most cavers up north are not be accustomed to caving in cotton work overalls, and may not own a pair. I think I could easily round up about 30 pairs of these overalls, but I don't have the $ 350 it would cost to do that, and that would only make a small dent in the number needed. And, Of course that still would not decon the cave pack, boots, gear, etc. Another idea would just be to cave naked or in just your bathing suit. That would simply decon procedures. Below are just some related opinions, Personally, I think we should encourage other fun activities to occupy the ICS attendees, like taking them to some good swimming holes. I would also like to add that hundreds of the ICS attendees go caving year round, and they spend the convention giving presentations, watching their colleagues presentations and socializing and planning future trips. I bet over a hundred cavers there will not have the time to cave. Caving in Texas in July is almost as bad as August. David Locklear caver in Fort Bend County - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] bat houses - personal opinions
I think I read somewhere that WNS has been found in man-made structures. Is that right ? In my opinion, it would be better to build a permanent concrete structure near cave entrances to encourage bats to repopulate there, one that would be safe for the bats. The beetles and cave crickets could be moved to join them. And it would be easier to collect the guano. After all, bat guano poisons caves and cave water, and makes caving less fun. And what evidence do we have that bats have been using caves before man scared them away from their natural habitats ? Bats are perfectly happy living in the crevices of bridges and trees. Right ? Many people put their animals in outdoor structures.Why not do the same for bats. I bet Mr. Bamberger would agree. http://www.bambergerranch.org/news/images/chirop.jpg Of course, my idea is not new. http://www.batworld.org/wild_sanctuary/wild_sanctuary.html What is new is I am proposing cavers build permanent bat houses near cave entrances to give the bats an easy choice of places to spend the day sleeping.( They could return to the cave when we are not caving if they really wanted ). Why do bats need access to Honeycreek Cave, for example, when Bracken Bat Cave is so close ? I take the side that certain caves should have gates to keep out the bats. Or at least certain passages should be blocked to keep out bats. Kartchner Caverns for example, Sonora, Midnight Cave, Lake Cave ( Slaughter Canyon ), caves with sensitive troglobitic aquatic life. In return, other caves could be set up to be only for bat use, like the Fredricksburg Bat Tunnel, etc. Of course, caves with known species that require bat guano, would be exempt from this. But I don't know which caves that would be. Couldn't these creatures be collected and moved to a bat sanctuary where humans are not allowed? David Locklear caver in Fort Bend County - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
texascavers Digest 9 Jun 2009 01:04:15 -0000 Issue 772
texascavers Digest 9 Jun 2009 01:04:15 - Issue 772 Topics (messages 10865 through 10885): Re: Reflecting on the 94 Convention 10865 by: Schwartz, Benjamin Aquarena Springs 10866 by: KFYI.aol.com the good old days 10867 by: Mixon Bill 10872 by: Minton, Mark Re: 15th ICS - deadline correction 10868 by: Mixon Bill Re: Bexar Grotto 10869 by: CWAN.boernenet.com Honey Creek Cave tank haul trip 10870 by: speleosteele.tx.rr.com 10871 by: Minton, Mark 10873 by: Thomas Sitch 10874 by: Minton, Mark 10875 by: Frank Binney Volunteers needed 10876 by: Jim Kennedy Mistaken identity 10877 by: Thomas Sitch 10879 by: Minton, Mark New NSS WNS Web Page 10878 by: Minton, Mark Re: non-bat caves 10880 by: Louise Power Re: 15th ICS - last chance for early registration!! 10881 by: Mixon Bill Honeycreek Cave air and related topics 10882 by: David Disposable caving clothes. 10883 by: David Prassel Ranch Cave 10884 by: David bat houses - personal opinions 10885 by: David Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com To post to the list, e-mail: texascavers@texascavers.com -- ---BeginMessage--- No, it sure isn't! At the very least, it livens up a campfire like nothing else does... And Aquarena Sprnigs is not closed, either. Benjamin From: ke...@sbcglobal.net [ke...@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 7:56 PM To: David; texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Reflecting on the 94 Convention *ahem!* Carbide is most certainly *NOT* dead! Anyone who thinks it is can send me their old lamps anytime. ;-) ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- On a tourist note, Aquarena Springs is closed now. Right ? David Locklear David, Aquarena Springs is still open. See hours of operation - _http://www.aquarena.txstate.edu/Glass-Bottomboats/Hours.html_ (http://www.aquarena.txstate.edu/Glass-Bottomboats/Hours.html) It is no longer an amusement park it once was. See history - _http://www.aquarena.txstate.edu/About-Us/History.html_ (http://www.aquarena.txstate.edu/About-Us/History.html) An interesting addition as of a year ago was an installation of an underwater web cam operating 24 hours a day. At night, the image is black. See underwater web cam - _http://www.aquarena.txstate.edu/underwater-cam.html_ (http://www.aquarena.txstate.edu/underwater-cam.html) Paul Johnston **An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377042x1201454362/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072hmpgID=62bcd=Jun eExcfooterNO62) ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- From a summary in Descent #208 of a talk at the 2008 national British caving conference: In 1970 an intrepid group of British cavers set forth for India in an old double-decker bus that had been purchased very cheaply then modified to produce a mobile caving-base-cum-motorhome. Things grew interesting as the team tried to cross the border into Germany, when it became evident that they had exceeded the road's height restriction. Over the next couple of days they manually sliced the roof off the top deck and re-attached it, making the bus less than the maximum height. With police approval, they continued on their way until the road went through an arch under an ancient city wall, and here it was obvious they would become stuck. The police were very helpful though, halting all the traffic and directing the bus onto the wrong side of the road to go through a separate and slightly higher arch. With numerous other incidents, the expedition proceeded across Persia and into Afghanistan, only to meet an even lower bridge where, after much deliberation, the tyres were lowered to a few psi and they crept forward, just making it through. Handily, they had come equipped for diving and the cylinders enabled them to reinflate the tyres. Eventually, after a journey of 5,189 miles that took 48 days and used 85 gallons (390 litres) of diesel, the group reached the end of the road at Arki in the Himachal Pradesh. The team set off on foot, heading for a range of mountains that they had been advised would make a good objective. Visible in the distance the peaks certainly looked impressive, but after two days' walking they appeared no nearer, so our band of cavers turned back. After staying in the area for around ten weeks and finding about fifteen caves of varying lengths and depths, the journey home began. Winter had by now set in and they were not equipped
[Texascavers] more cheap LED headlamps
Home Depot has 2 new LED headlamps that are under $ 20 and improvements over other their previous headlamps as they now include the brighter Cree LED's. One is by Energizer, and the other by Husky. The Energizer looked better, but I did not open the packages. These kind of headlamps are better suited for newbies going to Whirlpool Cave, or for your back-up light. However, I bet they work better than the old electric Justrites. http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/images/500/6193_w5.jpg Remember those days ? That was my 2nd electric headlamp and worked good for many trips.My first I called a twinklite. It was something I paid a lot of money for at Whole Earth in 1984. It lasted one trip. Then I had a Wheatlamp that I liked because it was so rugged. My 4th was the one that was integrated into the Petzl Ceiling-burner. It was a twinklite also. In those days, we talked alot about which bulbs to use on certain cave trips. Some cavers kept a dimmer or brighter bulb inside the lens housing or in their cave pack somewhere. I have had bulbs break, but I haven't heard yet of an LED module failing. So even these new cheap headlights should work well for caving. David Locklear caver in Fort Bend County - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Prassel Ranch Cave
ICS attendees would have some muddy fun at Prassel Ranch Cave. This cave is about 15 miles north of CWAN, and along the same road if my memory is correct. The entrance is only about 200 feet east of the road. I don't have any idea how to gain access to the cave, but if the owner lived near Houston, I would be willing to talk to him. And this cave has had a going lead for 30 something years. Right ? This is a cave that would be more fun if it had a shaft entrance. You have fun salamandering for hours only to turn around and repeat the same to get out of the cave. I don't know how common salamandering is in other cave regions of the world, as it is not described in caving books. For those of you who have never done it, the problem is that the mud is over knee deep and the water is waste deep. So you can only progess by slithering along in the cold wet mud on your belly. So you need excellent gloves as the mud is gritty and your hands are pickled. You also need a wet-suit to help you with bouyancy and the wet cold water. And you need boots that don't pull of your feet. The zip up neoprene booties work o.k, preferably the kind with they heavy rubberized toe protectors. Prassel Ranch Cave is fun cave that you will probably only want to visit once or twice. I don't know if TSS has GPS coordinates for this cave or if someone knows where it is on Google Earth. I think only a trickle of water flows from the entrance. Any other comments ? David Locklear caver in Fort Bend County - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] RE: Prassel Ranch Cave
David Locklear said: ICS attendees would have some muddy fun at Prassel Ranch Cave. You have fun salamandering for hours only to turn around and repeat the same to get out of the cave. As I remember it, there was often too little water to salamander in Prassell Ranch Cave. Salamandering only works if there is enough water to float your body above the mud, and the mud and water together are shallow enough to reach through to the solid floor with your hands. That's a pretty limited range that just happens to occur relatively frequently in Honey Creek. I don't know how likely those conditions would be in general, but I suspect it's not that common. There are plenty of places in Honey Creek where it doesn't work. What I remember being especially insidious in Prassell Ranch Cave is that there was often a false floor of flowstone under the mud that was sometimes strong enough to support body weight, and sometimes not. One would be crawling along through the mud and then suddenly fall through, doing a face plant in the process. And this cave has had a going lead for 30 something years. Right ? There is no open lead as far as I know, although I think there is a dig at a low airspace or sump at the back. I haven't seen it though. Mark Minton
[Texascavers] Paging Keith Goggin
Keith, The e-mail address I have for you is an old one and e-mail bounces back. Please e-mail me. Bill Steele - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] WNS questions - mostly opinions
I have not had a chance to find out the facts or details of WNS. Could each infected bat have visited a source of the fungus such as a plant or tree or soil? or are they certain that one sick bat brings it to the cave infecting all the other bats ? Are they certain it is a fungus ? Are they certain it is only Fusarium? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusarium Is it just on the hair, or is it also on the skin? Or stuck under their tiny claws ? I doubt that humans are carriers of the fungus.But in an effort to not rule anything out yet, why could it not be transmitted in our lungs. I guess I am saying decon would not do any good if that were the case, so why take a chance on caving until we are certain ? Other animals may use the cave and visit nearby caves.Possums, etc. So it could not be contained easily if that were the case. I propose putting some sick bats in a cage with a possum. Are they certain the fungus gets transmitted simply by touching it ? Meaning does it require fluid transmission ( saliva, etc ). Are we maybe looking at a rare troglobitic fungus ? ( I think I read somewhere it had been cultured in a lab ? ) Have the bats lungs been autopsyied ? I bet the fungus is also in their lungs. In that case, they are dying of pneumonia like symptoms. Otherwise, it has entered their bloodstream and effected their nervous system. Do these bats have to hibernate to survive ?Can they be transported south for the winter ? ( Wouldn't it be ironic if that method brought WNS to the south ? ) It would seem logical that the bats have put their nose inside of something that had the fungus. Such as a new flower imported from some exotic place where bats don't live. Like any contagious disease, the sick bats should be isolated from the non-sick ones. How to practically do that is a difficult question. Should the bats be captured and moved to try to save them ? If we only visit the same cave on a regular basis, then we could not spread WNS. Right ? Meaning, a caver could still visit a bat cave, as long as he doesn't visit any other caves.Right ? Another thought is that some animals have symbiotic relationships with other animals like the whale and the fish that attaches to them. Possibly bats up north have lost their symbiotic host, such as something that lived in their fur that fed on the fungus and kept it under control?I doubt that. It is no surprise that some environmentalist are claiming this is proof of global warming. I am not yet a believer in global warming caused by humans, but I do firmly support the goals of lessening pollution. ( I am more concerned about population growths affect on the environment, but that is another topic ). I bet there has been a sudden increase in this fungus on the surface in the vicinity of the 1st cave in the area where the bats spend the night flying around. How far do these bats normally go from New York? I guess they have ruled out that the 1st cave was visited by a caver who had travelled outside of New York, or from outside the country in the same clothes he wore to some environment that had high concentrations of this fungus ? I would not believe that theory. Maybe any mammal can catch it by eating an infected mosquito ? My guess, is that the fungus is NOT the symptom of an illness. My hunch is the fungus is causing the illness. So we must first get the bats away from the fungus. Can the sick bats be sanitized to remove the fungus ? David Locklear caver in Fort Bend County - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] PA Orders all Rescued Bats to be Destroyed
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/local/pa/20090608_Pa__orders_all_rescued_bats_to_be_destroyed.html Mark Minton Posted on Mon, Jun. 8, 2009 Pa. orders all rescued bats to be destroyed By Amy Worden Inquirer Harrisburg Bureau Seeking to halt the spread of a disease ravaging bat populations in the Northeast, the Pennsylvania Game Commission laid down the law: All bats collected by wildlife rescuers - regardless of whether they were sick or injured - would have to be euthanized. The order, issued in response to white-nose syndrome, a highly contagious fungal disease, came just before the busy spring season when baby bats take flight. It has angered bat advocates, who consider the Game Commission's response extreme. "It's a draconian approach," said Laura Flandreau, a volunteer from Chestnut Hill who launched a petition drive urging Gov. Rendell to persuade the commission to lift the ban. She says none of the other eight states where the disease has been found has banned rescue and release efforts. In New Jersey, she said, efforts are under way to treat infected bats in a research facility. But Game Commission officials say they issued the bat-release ban to protect thousands of bats from the fatal and, so far, untreatable disorder. "Given that white-nose syndrome has claimed thousands of bats, if a sick or injured bat is released, it would be adding to the problem," commission spokesman Jerry Feaser said. Concern about the economic and health costs of this fast-spreading disease prompted congressional hearings Thursday to explore the public-health, environmental, and economic implications of white-nose syndrome. The disease, which so far is found only in cave bats, has turned up in states from New Hampshire to West Virginia, decimating colonies in some areas. Delegate Madeleine Z. Bordallo (D., Guam), a member of the House subcommittee on national parks, forests and public lands, said Thursday that, left unchecked, white-nose syndrome could bring economic and ecological disaster, given the vital role hungry bats play in curbing disease-carrying insects. "Bats are nature's best control of insect populations, as a single bat can eat its entire weight in insects in one night," Bordallo said in a statement. "Their decline will likely have far-reaching ramifications for both agriculture and public health." Lisa Williams, a Game Commission biologist, said the reasons for the Pennsylvania order were many: The disease is difficult to recognize; there are no test, no treatment, and no cure; and it has spread from one bat species to another. "We are trying to slow the spreading of a disease that has been leapfrogging down the Appalachian range," she said. The disease is still confined in Pennsylvania to four counties: Lackawanna, Luzerne, Centre, and Mifflin. In New Jersey, volunteers are being sought to count the state's bats this summer. The Conserve Wildlife Foundation of New Jersey, which is organizing the census, says the count is crucial to determine how many bats have died from the disease. Pennsylvania and New Jersey are among 12 states that will share in $1.4 million from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to study the disease, which has killed record numbers of bats in New England since 2006, in some cases wiping out 90 percent of the population colonies. The first bats tested positive for white-nose syndrome in Pennsylvania in January, and a month later dead bats were turning up by the hundreds in Lackawanna County. The goal of the research, say Game Commission officials, is to find the cause, and determine how it spreads and whether it can be contained. Members of the small bat rehabilitation community - eight people in all, licensed through the Game Commission - say the commission's euthanasia order does not consider differences in species or the threat that killing the animals could pose. Tree bats, for instance, are not known to have the disease, and other species, such as the Indiana bat, are endangered. "I don't think it's a good idea," said Deb Welter, a licensed bat rehabilitator who runs the Diamond Rock Wildlife Rehabilitation Clinic in Malvern. "We are the bats' best chance, and the bats we take in are not implicated in white-nose." Game Commission officials, who have instructed the rehabilitators to euthanize the bats and ship them to Harrisburg for study, say some bats will have to be sacrificed to help find a cure. Contact staff writer Amy Worden at 717-783-2584 or awor...@phillynews.com. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Honeycreek Cave air and related topics
If you have 20 something cavers in a small passage with bad air breathing heavily for 9 hours, do expect the oxygen level to improve or get worse ? I propose future trips take precautionary measures and release some oxygen into the passage. It would be little use to install a big fan and flexible conduit to force some air into the shaft entrance because the air would distribute evenly throughout the whole cave and it would also block the entrance from easy in and out trips. Also, A tiny air shaft could be drilled, that could also be used to lower the diving gear into the room where the divers suit up at. Even a 3 inch diameter shaft would be helpful, because you could lower a telephone cable, or pump oxygen into the room, lower emergency food and water, etc. I propose a 3 inch shaft be drilled to confirm the exact location of the 1st sump, and then use the diver's survey to mark the surface where the cave is going. I would also like to propose that the TSA, TCMA, and every Texas caver unite behind a single goal, and I believe that goal should be to finish the map of Honeycreek. ( after ICS of course ) I hope I live long enough to see the TCMA acquire the Shaft Entrance and at least some sort of permanent access agreement to the Natural Entrance, like an easement. David Locklear caver in Fort Bend County - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] RE: bat houses
David Locklear said: After all, bat guano poisons caves and cave water, It does? Since when? And what evidence do we have that bats have been using caves before man scared them away from their natural habitats ? Bats are perfectly happy living in the crevices of bridges and trees. Right ? What makes you think caves are not bats' natural habitat? I think they are. Crevices in bridges certainly aren't! The types of bats that live in trees are not the same ones that live in caves. Many people put their animals in outdoor structures.Why not do the same for bats. Bats need a home that is warm enough in winter. Unless you built a complex structure like the Chiroptorium, a simple concrete shelter would get too cold. Please stick with testing LED flashlights, and leave the bats alone! Mark Minton
[Texascavers] RE: bat houses
Mark Minton said: Please stick with testing LED flashlights, and leave the bats alone! --- I could not agree more! David, you are way off base with your bat posting. Well meaning ideas are one thing, but your posting was done with obviously no prior research or discussion with anyone even approaching expert status. I was going to write a lengthy rebuttal, but decided to save my energy for someplace where it might do some good, like trying to find a solution to the WNS problem. Jim Kennedy, certified bat expert
[Texascavers] Honey Creek Cave tank haul trip
Well, we did it. And it may well have been the Last Honey Creek Cave tank haul. Or, at least, I think, the last one I organize. I was among the last three to get out of the cave yesterday, coming out at 9:00 a.m. after a 23 hour trip. Nine hours of that was spent in one place, on a not-so-comfortable rocky mud bank, waiting on the two divers, James Brown and Jean Creature Krejca. I tried to sleep, didn't think I did, but found out later that I snored and people laughed about it, so I must have slept some. I'll write a more detailed report tonight and post it here. I'll also commit to writing a detailed review of the push of the upstream HS sump for an upcoming issue of the Texas Caver. The upstream HS sump project has been ongoing for the past several years. But here's the short version of last weekend's trip. About twenty (I'll have an accurate count with names tonight) cavers went in the shaft entrance of Texas' longest cave Saturday morning. Most had a share of the load for the two cave divers, including four tanks, regulators packed in Pelican cases, BCs, lead weights, fins, wetsuits, a camers, survey gear, and a cave radio graciously loaned to us by Brian Pease of Vermont. It took 5 1/2 hours for us to reach the beginning of the 1,435 foot long sump. It took another three hours for the all the gear to be located in what pack and unpacked, passed through the mud and gloom (in not so great air) to the divers when they called for this or that piece of it, and for them to commence the dive. The results were that James and Creature surveyed 1,000 feet of passage and reached another sump. The cave radio transmission was not successful, in that Kurt Menking, waiting on the surface over that part of the cave in the evening dark, thought they were going to transmit about between 200 - 400 feet upstream from the 1,435 foot long HS sump, but instead they trasmitted from the second sump they reached, 1,000 feet upstream from the HS sump. However, it doesn't really matter, because given that there's another sump, putting in another shaft entrance into the 1,000 feet of passage they reached, won't get us into the going air-filled cave we're hoping to reach. More tonight, Bill Steele Irving, Texas - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] RE: Honey Creek Cave tank haul trip
Bill, The results were that James and Creature surveyed 1,000 feet of passage and reached another sump. Congratulations on some hard-won passage! Too bad about the next sump. :-( I guess passing that one is beyond the limits of reasonable effort with current technology. Mark Minton - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] RE: Honey Creek Cave tank haul trip
Forgive my ignorance on the costs/logistics, but I am very curious about the cost/benefit of pushing forward. You could return with a cave radio, get a proper reading, and then drill a new well into the current passage beyond the sump, correct? What's the cost of drilling the well? Is that on the order of thousands or tens of thousands of dollars? Then the challenge would be pushing the second sump into whatever untold wonder or third sump exists beyond, correct? ~~Thomas --- On Mon, 6/8/09, Minton, Mark mmin...@nmhu.edu wrote: From: Minton, Mark mmin...@nmhu.edu Subject: [Texascavers] RE: Honey Creek Cave tank haul trip To: speleoste...@tx.rr.com, Texascavers@texascavers.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 9:09 AM Bill, The results were that James and Creature surveyed 1,000 feet of passage and reached another sump. Congratulations on some hard-won passage! Too bad about the next sump. :-( I guess passing that one is beyond the limits of reasonable effort with current technology. Mark Minton - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] RE: Honey Creek Cave tank haul trip
Thomas Stich said: You could return with a cave radio, get a proper reading, and then drill a new well into the current passage beyond the sump, correct? What's the cost of drilling the well? Is that on the order of thousands or tens of thousands of dollars? Then the challenge would be pushing the second sump into whatever untold wonder or third sump exists beyond, correct? Yes, that could be done, but it would hardly be cost effective unless the new sump could be drained enough to allow non-divers to get through. It would indeed cost thousands of dollars to drill a new shaft, and it would not provide access to going cave for anyone but divers, and even then it would be a gamble that there is not a series of sumps ahead. Unless someone donated the cost of the shaft, I doubt most cavers would think it worthwhile. Mark Minton - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek Cave tank haul trip
I'm reminded of the wisdom of the immortal Cave Carson quoted in Inside Earth #1: A SUMP IS GOD'S WAY OF TELLING YOU THE CAVE ENDS THERE On 6/8/09 6:26 AM, speleoste...@tx.rr.com speleoste...@tx.rr.com wrote: Well, we did it. And it may well have been the Last Honey Creek Cave tank haul. Or, at least, I think, the last one I organize. I was among the last three to get out of the cave yesterday, coming out at 9:00 a.m. after a 23 hour trip. Nine hours of that was spent in one place, on a not-so-comfortable rocky mud bank, waiting on the two divers, James Brown and Jean Creature Krejca. I tried to sleep, didn't think I did, but found out later that I snored and people laughed about it, so I must have slept some. I'll write a more detailed report tonight and post it here. I'll also commit to writing a detailed review of the push of the upstream HS sump for an upcoming issue of the Texas Caver. The upstream HS sump project has been ongoing for the past several years. But here's the short version of last weekend's trip. About twenty (I'll have an accurate count with names tonight) cavers went in the shaft entrance of Texas' longest cave Saturday morning. Most had a share of the load for the two cave divers, including four tanks, regulators packed in Pelican cases, BCs, lead weights, fins, wetsuits, a camers, survey gear, and a cave radio graciously loaned to us by Brian Pease of Vermont. It took 5 1/2 hours for us to reach the beginning of the 1,435 foot long sump. It took another three hours for the all the gear to be located in what pack and unpacked, passed through the mud and gloom (in not so great air) to the divers when they called for this or that piece of it, and for them to commence the dive. The results were that James and Creature surveyed 1,000 feet of passage and reached another sump. The cave radio transmission was not successful, in that Kurt Menking, waiting on the surface over that part of the cave in the evening dark, thought they were going to transmit about between 200 - 400 feet upstream from the 1,435 foot long HS sump, but instead they trasmitted from the second sump they reached, 1,000 feet upstream from the HS sump. However, it doesn't really matter, because given that there's another sump, putting in another shaft entrance into the 1,000 feet of passage they reached, won't get us into the going air-filled cave we're hoping to reach. More tonight, Bill Steele Irving, Texas - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
