RE: [Texascavers] The incredible feat that is TCR
Roger is right. I have been to the last five TCR gatherings and while I always enjoy any outdoor location, it is the interaction with members of the group that makes it special. 2010 will be no exception, probably better. Thanks Allan and other volunteers. Fritz From: cavera...@aol.com [mailto:cavera...@aol.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 6:41 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com; a...@oztotl.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The incredible feat that is TCR I think folks would agree that it is the people, not the venue, that makes TCR special. And the people who put it all together are the most special of all. Roger
texascavers Digest 10 Aug 2010 15:02:44 -0000 Issue 1131
texascavers Digest 10 Aug 2010 15:02:44 - Issue 1131 Topics (messages 15750 through 15762): sort of bat fungus related 15750 by: David 15751 by: Gary McDaniel The incredible feat that is TCR 15752 by: Thomas Sitch 15753 by: caverarch.aol.com 15761 by: Fritz Holt Re: Location for TCR 15754 by: feliciavreeland.gmail.com 15755 by: mark gee 15756 by: Herman Miller Re: cave closures 15757 by: ellie :) 15758 by: Mark Minton stalactite science 15759 by: David Re: NSS Convention ? 15760 by: ellie :) Re: TPWD - Wildlife Permitting (Scientific Collector Advisory) 15762 by: Andy Gluesenkamp Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com To post to the list, e-mail: texascavers@texascavers.com -- ---BeginMessage--- Have any of you ever contracted a really bad fungus on the skin such as on the feet or in crevice areas of the body, such as the crotch? I have. The itch will simply drive you insane for days, if not weeks. You can't sleep and you toss and turn.You wake up feeling exhausted. You try your best not to scratch it because you are smart enough to know that scratching just makes it worse. You put ointments on it, and creams, and lotions, trying to find something that will stop the painful itching. But you keep scratching anyways. Nothing seems to work, but it eventually goes away once you realize you have to stop touching it. If bats are experiencing this painful itching, then my heart goes out to them, as there is probably nothing they can do to get that itch off their nose, and they probably feel like their whole body is itching. Cold weather seems to help the itch go away, so maybe they go stick their nose in a cold spot to kill the itch. I have found no over the counter medicine that kills the itch. Topical pain-killers like benzocaine, will numb the pain.Any product with alcohol burns like crazy, especially if you have already lost your 1st layer of skin. David Locklear ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- http://www.amazon.com/Vagisil-Anti-Itch-Creme-Original-Formula/dp/B52XIA On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 2:41 PM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote: Have any of you ever contracted a really bad fungus on the skin such as on the feet or in crevice areas of the body, such as the crotch? I have. The itch will simply drive you insane for days, if not weeks. You can't sleep and you toss and turn.You wake up feeling exhausted. You try your best not to scratch it because you are smart enough to know that scratching just makes it worse. You put ointments on it, and creams, and lotions, trying to find something that will stop the painful itching. But you keep scratching anyways. Nothing seems to work, but it eventually goes away once you realize you have to stop touching it. If bats are experiencing this painful itching, then my heart goes out to them, as there is probably nothing they can do to get that itch off their nose, and they probably feel like their whole body is itching. Cold weather seems to help the itch go away, so maybe they go stick their nose in a cold spot to kill the itch. I have found no over the counter medicine that kills the itch. Topical pain-killers like benzocaine, will numb the pain.Any product with alcohol burns like crazy, especially if you have already lost your 1st layer of skin. David Locklear - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com -- ~Gary McDaniel Grand Junction, CO ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- I'm amazed (and I know I'm not alone) by the incredible amount of work that is TCR; from the organizing, location, cooking, hot-tub, wrestling... all of these things (and more) are the product of a great amount of industry and passion from the people that make them happen. TCR is not an all-year theme park with full time paid employees. We want to encourage more people to contribute and we don't want to frustrate and shut down the people who already go far and beyond the call of duty. Bottom line: don't take it for-granted. I personally will always judge a venue when I get there, and not before, and if I don't like it I'll politely mention it to the organizers... in private. I know Allan enough to trust his judgement. Best Regards, ~~Thomas --- On Mon, 8/9/10, Allan Cobb a...@oztotl.com wrote: From: Allan Cobb a...@oztotl.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Location for TCR To: 'TexasCavers' texascavers@texascavers.com List-Post:
[Texascavers] feds fear lawsuits?
maybe, just maybe: http://www.statesman.com/news/local/austin-travis-county-u-s-fish-and-wildlife-850774.html --- On Tue, 8/10/10, Brian Vauter bvau...@gmail.com wrote: Mark, Do you think the Feds are also not letting up on their policy for fear of lawsuits from environmental groups? On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 10:22 PM, Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net wrote: This is essentially what happened here in Virginia. Initially there was a knee-jerk, blanket ban on caving, but then people realized that cavers were the eyes and ears on and under the ground that provided real-time info on how the bats were doing. The policy soon changed to allowing caving with decon. That was true for everyone but the feds; the USFWS never relaxed their caving ban. My guess is that they won't do so any time soon - they are the most remote from cavers and the most impenetrable. Fortunately for us that affects relatively few of the caves most of us visit regularly.
[Texascavers] Re: cave closures
Mark, Do you think the Feds are also not letting up on their policy for fear of lawsuits from environmental groups? On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 10:22 PM, Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net wrote: This is essentially what happened here in Virginia. Initially there was a knee-jerk, blanket ban on caving, but then people realized that cavers were the eyes and ears on and under the ground that provided real-time info on how the bats were doing. The policy soon changed to allowing caving with decon. That was true for everyone but the feds; the USFWS never relaxed their caving ban. My guess is that they won't do so any time soon - they are the most remote from cavers and the most impenetrable. Fortunately for us that affects relatively few of the caves most of us visit regularly.
[Texascavers] Re: cave closures
I don't think the feds are worried about law suits, except possibly in the cases where federally endangered bats are involved. Endangered species are the only ones they are legally obliged to protect, and many of those sites are already protected. I think it is political. People want them to be seen as doing something, and this is something public they can do with little expense. Cavers are not much of a constituency, so our protests go largely unnoticed. This kind of overreaction is typical whenever public agencies and politicians are up against something over which they have no control, but where they are expected to act anyway. Of course it all becomes a farce when they continue to allow commercial caves to operate. Money and politics almost always trump logic. :-( Mark Minton At 11:39 AM 8/10/2010, Brian Vauter wrote: Mark, Do you think the Feds are also not letting up on their policy for fear of lawsuits from environmental groups? On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 10:22 PM, Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net wrote: This is essentially what happened here in Virginia. Initially there was a knee-jerk, blanket ban on caving, but then people realized that cavers were the eyes and ears on and under the ground that provided real-time info on how the bats were doing. The policy soon changed to allowing caving with decon. That was true for everyone but the feds; the USFWS never relaxed their caving ban. My guess is that they won't do so any time soon - they are the most remote from cavers and the most impenetrable. Fortunately for us that affects relatively few of the caves most of us visit regularly. Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org
texascavers Digest 10 Aug 2010 16:47:58 -0000 Issue 1132
texascavers Digest 10 Aug 2010 16:47:58 - Issue 1132 Topics (messages 15763 through 15771): Re: cave closures 15763 by: Brian Vauter 15771 by: Mark Minton Re: Location for TCR 15764 by: Josh Rubinstein Re: NSS Convention ? 15765 by: Josh Rubinstein 15768 by: caverarch.aol.com 15769 by: Fritz Holt Re: TPWD - Wildlife Permitting (Scientific Collector Advisory) 15766 by: Josh Rubinstein 15770 by: Mark Minton feds fear lawsuits? 15767 by: Andy Gluesenkamp Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com To post to the list, e-mail: texascavers@texascavers.com -- ---BeginMessage--- Mark, Do you think the Feds are also not letting up on their policy for fear of lawsuits from environmental groups? On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 10:22 PM, Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net wrote: This is essentially what happened here in Virginia. Initially there was a knee-jerk, blanket ban on caving, but then people realized that cavers were the eyes and ears on and under the ground that provided real-time info on how the bats were doing. The policy soon changed to allowing caving with decon. That was true for everyone but the feds; the USFWS never relaxed their caving ban. My guess is that they won't do so any time soon - they are the most remote from cavers and the most impenetrable. Fortunately for us that affects relatively few of the caves most of us visit regularly. ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- I don't think the feds are worried about law suits, except possibly in the cases where federally endangered bats are involved. Endangered species are the only ones they are legally obliged to protect, and many of those sites are already protected. I think it is political. People want them to be seen as doing something, and this is something public they can do with little expense. Cavers are not much of a constituency, so our protests go largely unnoticed. This kind of overreaction is typical whenever public agencies and politicians are up against something over which they have no control, but where they are expected to act anyway. Of course it all becomes a farce when they continue to allow commercial caves to operate. Money and politics almost always trump logic. :-( Mark Minton At 11:39 AM 8/10/2010, Brian Vauter wrote: Mark, Do you think the Feds are also not letting up on their policy for fear of lawsuits from environmental groups? On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 10:22 PM, Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net wrote: This is essentially what happened here in Virginia. Initially there was a knee-jerk, blanket ban on caving, but then people realized that cavers were the eyes and ears on and under the ground that provided real-time info on how the bats were doing. The policy soon changed to allowing caving with decon. That was true for everyone but the feds; the USFWS never relaxed their caving ban. My guess is that they won't do so any time soon - they are the most remote from cavers and the most impenetrable. Fortunately for us that affects relatively few of the caves most of us visit regularly. Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- Allen, Here is a suggestion. The regional caving events I participated in; MAR, VAR, NRO and SERA; have been hosted by a different grottos or group of grottos each year. That helps divide the work and prevents burn-out. The host grotto, of course, chooses the location which means you move around and see caves in different parts of the region. A few central location tend to be used often. But every once and a while you drive ten hours to see a far off program which is small with new people and always interesting and fun. If there is no joy in volunteer work my suggestion is to stop doing it. If people want it to happen, they will step forward. And, then, you could enjoy a TCR,. Josh On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 2:37 PM, Allan Cobb a...@oztotl.com wrote: Well a week has passed since I offered to let someone come up with a better location. As expected, no one did. Did anyone even try? I doubt it. Over the past week, I thought about why I even bother organizing TCR if a very vocal minority will do nothing but complain. Is it really worth it? I think it is, that is why I do it. I've noticed that those who complain the most are the ones who actually do little or nothing to make TCR happen. Yet their vocal complaining is an irritation that I frankly don't need. It is also an irritation to others. Coming to TCR is your personal choice. If you choose not to come, fine, you miss the fun. TCR is put together by a very
Re: [Texascavers] Location for TCR
Allen, Here is a suggestion. The regional caving events I participated in; MAR, VAR, NRO and SERA; have been hosted by a different grottos or group of grottos each year. That helps divide the work and prevents burn-out. The host grotto, of course, chooses the location which means you move around and see caves in different parts of the region. A few central location tend to be used often. But every once and a while you drive ten hours to see a far off program which is small with new people and always interesting and fun. If there is no joy in volunteer work my suggestion is to stop doing it. If people want it to happen, they will step forward. And, then, you could enjoy a TCR,. Josh On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 2:37 PM, Allan Cobb a...@oztotl.com wrote: Well a week has passed since I offered to let someone come up with a better location. As expected, no one did. Did anyone even try? I doubt it. Over the past week, I thought about why I even bother organizing TCR if a very vocal minority will do nothing but complain. Is it really worth it? I think it is, that is why I do it. I've noticed that those who complain the most are the ones who actually do little or nothing to make TCR happen. Yet their vocal complaining is an irritation that I frankly don't need. It is also an irritation to others. Coming to TCR is your personal choice. If you choose not to come, fine, you miss the fun. TCR is put together by a very dedicated group of volunteers who spend more hours than they care to count getting everything ready, running, and breaking down TCR. Trust me, we don't do all this work to make ourselves heroes, we do it so that other can come out and have fun. Other than a few key volunteers, no one ever really sees all the people who work to make TCR happen. I want to thank all these people who put their time and effort into TCR. Thank you volunteers, thank you very much If people still want to complain about the location, go ahead, it really isn't too late to cancel TCR. Allan - Original Message - From: Allan Cobb To: 'TexasCavers' Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 9:58 AM Subject: [Texascavers] Location for TCR Since so many people have complained about my choice for the location of TCR, I am will to make a deal. Anyone who wants to can find a better site. For one week only, I am willing to change the location if a better site can be found. Here is your chance to make a difference. Channel all your energy that has been used for complaining into finding a site. Send me informaion on location, description, cost, and availability. Now get out there and get to looking! Allan - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] Location for TCR
And, I was just getting ready to complain.. Sheryl, who WILL be attending TCR no matter where it is held -Original Message- From: Allan Cobb [mailto:a...@oztotl.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:37 PM To: 'TexasCavers' Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Location for TCR Well a week has passed since I offered to let someone come up with a better location. As expected, no one did. Did anyone even try? I doubt it. Over the past week, I thought about why I even bother organizing TCR if a very vocal minority will do nothing but complain. Is it really worth it? I think it is, that is why I do it. I've noticed that those who complain the most are the ones who actually do little or nothing to make TCR happen. Yet their vocal complaining is an irritation that I frankly don't need. It is also an irritation to others. Coming to TCR is your personal choice. If you choose not to come, fine, you miss the fun. TCR is put together by a very dedicated group of volunteers who spend more hours than they care to count getting everything ready, running, and breaking down TCR. Trust me, we don't do all this work to make ourselves heroes, we do it so that other can come out and have fun. Other than a few key volunteers, no one ever really sees all the people who work to make TCR happen. I want to thank all these people who put their time and effort into TCR. Thank you volunteers, thank you very much If people still want to complain about the location, go ahead, it really isn't too late to cancel TCR. Allan - Original Message - From: Allan Cobb To: 'TexasCavers' Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 9:58 AM Subject: [Texascavers] Location for TCR Since so many people have complained about my choice for the location of TCR, I am will to make a deal. Anyone who wants to can find a better site. For one week only, I am willing to change the location if a better site can be found. Here is your chance to make a difference. Channel all your energy that has been used for complaining into finding a site. Send me informaion on location, description, cost, and availability. Now get out there and get to looking! Allan - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Fw: TPWD - Wildlife Permitting (Scientific Collector Advisory)
I just received this advisory from our permitting folks. It is being sent out to all scientific permit holders who may work in caves but I think cavers might find it of interest as well. This is not a notice of closure or anything of the sort. Just good ol' common sense. Andy Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D. 700 Billie Brooks Drive Driftwood, Texas 78619 (512) 799-1095 a...@gluesenkamp.com The Texas Parks and Wildlife Department (TPWD) would like to make all scientific research permit holders aware of a current Scientific Collector Advisory concerning White-nose Syndrome. While the majority of current permit holders do not collect bats, this message is intended to alert researchers to growing concerns about the spread of this disease. The following links will provide information to aid in its identification, alert all to current requirements surrounding the use of equipment, and offer a TPWD point of contact for questions regarding this disease. Scientific Collector Advisory Considerations of White-nose Syndrome in Bats during Scientific Collecting Activities Since you have applied for a Wildlife Collector’s Permit to trap, salvage, or collect bats, you are likely aware of White-nose Syndrome (WNS) and the danger it poses to populations of cave bats in North America . If you are not familiar with this disease, please take the time to familiarize yourself. A few websites that provide good information and additional links are: National Speleological Society http://caves.org/WNS US Fish Wildlife Service http://www.fws.gov/northeast/white_nose.html Bat Conservation International http://www.batcon.org/wns USGS National Wildlife Health Center http://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/disease_information/white-nose_syndrome/index.jsp Even if you are already aware of WNS, it is a good idea to check one or more of these websites regularly because new information is posted quite often. Noticeable signs of a fungal infection are scars and damage to wings and other membranous tissues and/or white fuzz on the nose and wings. See the following website for descriptions and pictures of affected tissues – http://www.fws.gov/northeast/PDF/Reichard_Scarring%20index%20bat%20wings.pdf Examine all bats handled or collected for wing damage and score them according to this index. Pictures of suspicious damage should be taken and submitted. Report any signs of WNS to John Young at Texas Parks and Wildlife Department (john.yo...@tpwd.state.tx.us) as soon as possible. Because human spread of WNS is considered a possibility, the following special notes apply to your Wildlife Collector’s Permit – Any equipment that has contacted bats or has been inside caves or mines in confirmed WNS-affected states are prohibited from being used in Texas . Equipment used in Texas should be decontaminated with with a 10% bleach solution, 3% Lysol, or other USFWS recommended disinfectant, before being used at another location. For additional disinfection protocols see: http://www.fws.gov/northeast/pdf/2008%20Summer%20Protocols_15May2008b.pdf USFWS is requiring case-by-case approval for the use of harp traps (especially at hibernacula entrances during fall swarming and spring emergence), please contact John Young (512-389-8047) at Texas Parks and Wildlife Department if you are planning to use a harp trap in Texas or have other questions related to WNS. Thank you for all you do. Chris Maldonado Wildlife Permits Specialist Texas Parks Wildlife Department 4200 Smith School Road Austin, Texas 78744 (512) 389-4647 (512) 389-4550 fax
Re: [Texascavers] Fw: TPWD - Wildlife Permitting (Scientific Collector Advisory)
Andy, Thanks. I had not seen the grading scale for the lesions that the paper linked to ( http://www.fws.gov/northeast/PDF/Reichard_Scarring%20index%20bat%20wings.pdf). The hyphea of the fungus (the white stuff) is pulled off easily. It is lesions that signify infection. thanks again, Josh On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Andy Gluesenkamp andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com wrote: I just received this advisory from our permitting folks. It is being sent out to all scientific permit holders who may work in caves but I think cavers might find it of interest as well. This is not a notice of closure or anything of the sort. Just good ol' common sense. Andy Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D. 700 Billie Brooks Drive Driftwood, Texas 78619 (512) 799-1095 a...@gluesenkamp.com The Texas Parks and Wildlife Department (TPWD) would like to make all scientific research permit holders aware of a current Scientific Collector Advisory concerning White-nose Syndrome. While the majority of current permit holders do not collect bats, this message is intended to alert researchers to growing concerns about the spread of this disease. The following links will provide information to aid in its identification, alert all to current requirements surrounding the use of equipment, and offer a TPWD point of contact for questions regarding this disease.** * * * * *Scientific Collector Advisory* * * *Considerations of White-nose Syndrome in Bats during Scientific Collecting Activities * Since you have applied for a Wildlife Collector’s Permit to trap, salvage, or collect bats, you are likely aware of White-nose Syndrome (WNS) and the danger it poses to populations of cave bats in North America . If you are not familiar with this disease, please take the time to familiarize yourself. A few websites that provide good information and additional links are: National Speleological Society http://caves.org/WNS US Fish Wildlife Service http://www.fws.gov/northeast/white_nose.html Bat Conservation International http://www.batcon.org/wns USGS National Wildlife Health Center http://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/disease_information/white-nose_syndrome/index.jsp Even if you are already aware of WNS, it is a good idea to check one or more of these websites regularly because new information is posted quite often. Noticeable signs of a fungal infection are scars and damage to wings and other membranous tissues and/or white fuzz on the nose and wings. See the following website for descriptions and pictures of affected tissues – http://www.fws.gov/northeast/PDF/Reichard_Scarring%20index%20bat%20wings.pdf * * *Examine all bats handled or collected for wing damage and score them according to this index. Pictures of suspicious damage should be taken and submitted. * Report any signs of WNS to John Young at Texas Parks and Wildlife Department (john.yo...@tpwd.state.tx.us) as soon as possible. Because human spread of WNS is considered a possibility, the following special notes apply to your Wildlife Collector’s Permit – *Any equipment that has contacted bats or has been inside caves or mines in confirmed WNS-affected states are prohibited from being used in Texas . Equipment used in Texas should be decontaminated with with a 10% bleach solution, 3% Lysol, or other USFWS recommended disinfectant, before being used at another location. *For additional disinfection protocols see: http://www.fws.gov/northeast/pdf/2008%20Summer%20Protocols_15May2008b.pdf * * *USFWS is requiring case-by-case approval for the use of harp traps (especially at hibernacula entrances during fall swarming and spring emergence), please contact John Young (512-389-8047) at Texas Parks and Wildlife Department if you are planning to use a harp trap in Texas or have other questions related to WNS. * * * *Thank you for all you do.* * * *Chris Maldonado* *Wildlife Permits Specialist* *Texas Parks Wildlife Department* *4200 Smith School Road* *Austin**, Texas 78744* *(512) 389-4647* *(512) 389-4550 fax*
[Texascavers] Re: TPWD - Wildlife Permitting (Scientific Collector Advisory)
Andy, There are a couple of errors/updates in that advisory that you might want to pass along to the powers that be. The link for the USFWS white-nose page has changed to http://www.fws.gov/WhiteNoseSyndrome/. There is a newer USFWS decon protocol (June 2010) at http://www.fws.gov/WhiteNoseSyndrome/ppt/NPS_Decontamination_Protocols_Webinar_June_9_2010.ppt, also available as PDF on the NSS WNS page. For decon your advisory says 10% bleach or 3% Lysol, but the latter should actually be 0.3% Lysol (an order of magnitude less), and not just any Lysol, but specifically the antibacterial type with quaternary ammonium salts. Mark Minton At 11:02 AM 8/10/2010, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote: I just received this advisory from our permitting folks. It is being sent out to all scientific permit holders who may work in caves but I think cavers might find it of interest as well. This is not a notice of closure or anything of the sort. Just good ol' common sense. Andy The Texas Parks and Wildlife Department (TPWD) would like to make all scientific research permit holders aware of a current Scientific Collector Advisory concerning White-nose Syndrome. While the majority of current permit holders do not collect bats, this message is intended to alert researchers to growing concerns about the spread of this disease. The following links will provide information to aid in its identification, alert all to current requirements surrounding the use of equipment, and offer a TPWD point of contact for questions regarding this disease. Scientific Collector Advisory Considerations of White-nose Syndrome in Bats during Scientific Collecting Activities Since you have applied for a Wildlife Collectorâs Permit to trap, salvage, or collect bats, you are likely aware of White-nose Syndrome (WNS) and the danger it poses to populations of cave bats in North America . If you are not familiar with this disease, please take the time to familiarize yourself. A few websites that provide good information and additional links are: National Speleological Society http://caves.org/WNS US Fish Wildlife Service http://www.fws.gov/northeast/white_nose.html Bat Conservation International http://www.batcon.org/wns USGS National Wildlife Health Center http://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/disease_information/white-nose_syndrome/index.jsp Even if you are already aware of WNS, it is a good idea to check one or more of these websites regularly because new information is posted quite often. Noticeable signs of a fungal infection are scars and damage to wings and other membranous tissues and/or white fuzz on the nose and wings. See the following website for descriptions and pictures of affected tissues http://www.fws.gov/northeast/PDF/Reichard_Scarring%20index%20bat%20wings.pdf Examine all bats handled or collected for wing damage and score them according to this index. Pictures of suspicious damage should be taken and submitted. Report any signs of WNS to John Young at Texas Parks and Wildlife Department (john.yo...@tpwd.state.tx.us) as soon as possible. Because human spread of WNS is considered a possibility, the following special notes apply to your Wildlife Collectorâs Permit Any equipment that has contacted bats or has been inside caves or mines in confirmed WNS-affected states are prohibited from being used in Texas . Equipment used in Texas should be decontaminated with with a 10% bleach solution, 3% Lysol, or other USFWS recommended disinfectant, before being used at another location. For additional disinfection protocols see: http://www.fws.gov/northeast/pdf/2008%20Summer%20Protocols_15May2008b.pdf USFWS is requiring case-by-case approval for the use of harp traps (especially at hibernacula entrances during fall swarming and spring emergence), please contact John Young (512-389-8047) at Texas Parks and Wildlife Department if you are planning to use a harp trap in Texas or have other questions related to WNS. Thank you for all you do. Chris Maldonado Wildlife Permits Specialist Texas Parks Wildlife Department 4200 Smith School Road Austin, Texas 78744 (512) 389-4647 (512) 389-4550 fax Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Re: TPWD - Wildlife Permitting (Scientific Collector Advisory)
Mnay thanks, Mark. I'll pass it on right away. Andy Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D. 700 Billie Brooks Drive Driftwood, Texas 78619 (512) 799-1095 a...@gluesenkamp.com --- On Tue, 8/10/10, Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net wrote: From: Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net Subject: [Texascavers] Re: TPWD - Wildlife Permitting (Scientific Collector Advisory) To: texascavers@texascavers.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Tuesday, August 10, 2010, 11:21 AM Andy, There are a couple of errors/updates in that advisory that you might want to pass along to the powers that be. The link for the USFWS white-nose page has changed to http://www.fws.gov/WhiteNoseSyndrome/. There is a newer USFWS decon protocol (June 2010) at http://www.fws.gov/WhiteNoseSyndrome/ppt/NPS_Decontamination_Protocols_Webinar_June_9_2010.ppt, also available as PDF on the NSS WNS page. For decon your advisory says 10% bleach or 3% Lysol, but the latter should actually be 0.3% Lysol (an order of magnitude less), and not just any Lysol, but specifically the antibacterial type with quaternary ammonium salts. Mark Minton At 11:02 AM 8/10/2010, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote: I just received this advisory from our permitting folks. It is being sent out to all scientific permit holders who may work in caves but I think cavers might find it of interest as well. This is not a notice of closure or anything of the sort. Just good ol' common sense. Andy The Texas Parks and Wildlife Department (TPWD) would like to make all scientific research permit holders aware of a current Scientific Collector Advisory concerning White-nose Syndrome. While the majority of current permit holders do not collect bats, this message is intended to alert researchers to growing concerns about the spread of this disease. The following links will provide information to aid in its identification, alert all to current requirements surrounding the use of equipment, and offer a TPWD point of contact for questions regarding this disease. Scientific Collector Advisory Considerations of White-nose Syndrome in Bats during Scientific Collecting Activities Since you have applied for a Wildlife Collector’s Permit to trap, salvage, or collect bats, you are likely aware of White-nose Syndrome (WNS) and the danger it poses to populations of cave bats in North America . If you are not familiar with this disease, please take the time to familiarize yourself. A few websites that provide good information and additional links are: National Speleological Society http://caves.org/WNS US Fish Wildlife Service http://www.fws.gov/northeast/white_nose.html Bat Conservation International http://www.batcon.org/wns USGS National Wildlife Health Center http://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/disease_information/white-nose_syndrome/index.jsp Even if you are already aware of WNS, it is a good idea to check one or more of these websites regularly because new information is posted quite often. Noticeable signs of a fungal infection are scars and damage to wings and other membranous tissues and/or white fuzz on the nose and wings. See the following website for descriptions and pictures of affected tissues – http://www.fws.gov/northeast/PDF/Reichard_Scarring%20index%20bat%20wings.pdf Examine all bats handled or collected for wing damage and score them according to this index. Pictures of suspicious damage should be taken and submitted. Report any signs of WNS to John Young at Texas Parks and Wildlife Department (john.yo...@tpwd.state.tx.us) as soon as possible. Because human spread of WNS is considered a possibility, the following special notes apply to your Wildlife Collector’s Permit – Any equipment that has contacted bats or has been inside caves or mines in confirmed WNS-affected states are prohibited from being used in Texas . Equipment used in Texas should be decontaminated with with a 10% bleach solution, 3% Lysol, or other USFWS recommended disinfectant, before being used at another location. For additional disinfection protocols see: http://www.fws.gov/northeast/pdf/2008%20Summer%20Protocols_15May2008b.pdf USFWS is requiring case-by-case approval for the use of harp traps (especially at hibernacula entrances during fall swarming and spring emergence), please contact John Young (512-389-8047) at Texas Parks and Wildlife Department if you are planning to use a harp trap in Texas or have other questions related to WNS. Thank you for all you do. Chris Maldonado Wildlife Permits Specialist Texas Parks Wildlife Department 4200 Smith School Road Austin, Texas 78744 (512) 389-4647 (512) 389-4550 fax Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For
[ot_caving] FW: Man Reunites with Gorilla He Raised
Way off topic unless some gorillas habitat caves. This really displays the intelligence of apes. This exhibit does Dianne Fosse one better. The gorilla's memory and social attitude after a five year absence from his human friend is truly impressive. Fritz From: Jacquetta Breedlove [mailto:bl...@vownet.net] Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 4:34 PM To: ; Subject: Man Reunites with Gorilla He Raised Friends: Do NOT miss this amazing 4 minute clip. It is so touching and an absolutely amazing story. I was moved to tears. http://www.wimp.com/manreunites Jackie
Re: [ot_caving] FW: Man Reunites with Gorilla He Raised
Interesting fact: Koko the Gorilla loves TV. One of her favorite television shows was 'Mr. Rogers Neighborhood' Mr. Rogers actually visited Koko while taping one episode. Koko recognized Mr. Rogers and immediately, with enthusiasm signed hug! hug!. -WaV On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Fritz Holt fh...@townandcountryins.comwrote: Way off topic unless some gorillas habitat caves. This really displays the intelligence of apes. This exhibit does Dianne Fosse one better. The gorilla’s memory and social attitude after a five year absence from his human friend is truly impressive. Fritz -- *From:* Jacquetta Breedlove [mailto:bl...@vownet.net] *Sent:* Saturday, August 07, 2010 4:34 PM *To:* ; *Subject:* Man Reunites with Gorilla He Raised Friends: Do NOT miss this amazing 4 minute clip. It is so touching and an absolutely amazing story. I was moved to tears. http://www.wimp.com/manreunites Jackie
Re: [Texascavers] Re: NSS Convention ?
Watch your mouth yall- im still revelling in my youth! The kind folks of New York are have been taking me into their caves the last 3 days of Post Convention Camp. I plan to get into another cave today! On 8/9/10, Josh Rubinstein kars...@gmail.com wrote: David, Well, let's see. Four days ago I was standing on ice. It was in Cave of the Winds, a tectonic cave on Mt. Mansfield, Vermont's highest mountain. Pretty good for August. Before I recap convention let me congratulate Bob Cowell, new Fellow of the Society, and Geary Schindel, the new NSS Administrative Vice President. Okay, For all those who said there was no caving; WRONG! It was just you couldn't fit. Well, at least, on the Vermont side. On the Adirondack side, the cave's were maneuverable and beautiful washed marble. And, like, I said, on Friday I was on ice. Many of the session did not happen for lack of entries. Mark and Vonny did a wonderful job of beating the bushes for an excellent International Exploration session. I especially liked the Kite Flying in Chinese Caves. The Geology session was a Milroy short course on the island karst of Bahamas, Barbados and Guam. The other set of talks where from Andraus and his students on the 'climate' of various caves including Jewel and Carlsbad. Late in the day, Matt Covington presented a paper that went by in whirl of variables but I think it looked very interesting. On Wednesday there was a presentation on WNS. One of the saddest moments came when someone asked how the fungus spread from Hasbrook Mine to Aolius Cave, neither place often visited by humans. Maybe we did it. answered Al Hicks, the head bat guy in New York. You could see that they were struggling with the same thing cavers are. Even before they go to collect data, they asked is it worth the possibility that we will do harm. It was clear that those who have seen these massive die-offs are changed. We know more about WNS than I thought we did. The bat's are awakened by the lesions caused by the fungus. Some may survives but their wings are tattered and they can die well into summer because they no longer can hunt efficiently. It seems that while in hibernation the bats can not launch an immune response. That I read to mean this is a problem of hibernating bats, not the Free tail (Crash, correct me if I am wrong). Finally, it was a very old convention. They brought a cake up for Art Palmer for his 70th birthday. He was my advisor and I had no idea. Will White got ovation for attending successively 57 conventions. There was no award for a paper given by someone under 25 because there weren't any. There were handful young people and some children of cavers, but that was it. Josh On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 10:09 PM, Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net wrote: The sessions I went to went very well. Yvonne Droms and I were in charge of International Exploration on Wednesday and we had a full day of exciting talks from China to Mexico and points in between, often with standing room only. My guess is that the average age was more like 50, but it is definitely creeping up. The Syphons were great, as always. The weather was often rainy, but that's par for the course at NSS Conventions. At least there were not high winds, so not many camps were damaged. Groad Hollow was in a nice spot in the woods, which was very nice. Mark Minton At 10:03 PM 8/8/2010, David wrote: I presume everybody is home safe now from the convention ? I feel it is important to discuss the convention, to encourage new cavers unfamiliar with the NSS to attend future conventions, and for those that really wanted to go, but just couldn't make it. This was a difficult convention for most Texas cavers to attend. Only about 13 percent showed up. But there were still more Texas cavers there than Vermont cavers. ( I bet this convention probably broke the record for the number of Vermont cavers to attend. ). I searched the web looking for reports about the convention, but did not find anything. I regret missing almost all of it. Maybe there are still some cavers that are not home yet, who have stories to tell? I saw nearly 25 cavers there from Texas, along with their families. Here are just a few that were wandering around the Howdy Party:Tom Summers, RD Milhollin, Mike Walsh, Jim Kennedy, Bill Mixon, Terry Raines family, Mark Minton ( lives in VA now ), Peter Strickland and sons, Lee Jay Graves, Keith and Lisa Goggins ( of the Terminal Siphons ), Rene Shields, Gary Napper, Chris Thibodaux, Ellie Theone, Jim Coke, and Bill Stone.Who did I leave out ? ( Michael Cicherski, Benjamin and Corrine Schwartz, Kenneth Laidlaw, Josh Rubenstein and Rex Williams ) But there were also lots of cavers there that many of you know like: Dale Pate, and famous cavers like Roger Brucker and Dick Blenz, and most likely dozens of others that I didn't get a chance to say
Re: [Texascavers] Re: NSS Convention ?
El, You are the future of the NSS. Josh On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 9:26 AM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Watch your mouth yall- im still revelling in my youth! The kind folks of New York are have been taking me into their caves the last 3 days of Post Convention Camp. I plan to get into another cave today! On 8/9/10, Josh Rubinstein kars...@gmail.com wrote: David, Well, let's see. Four days ago I was standing on ice. It was in Cave of the Winds, a tectonic cave on Mt. Mansfield, Vermont's highest mountain. Pretty good for August. Before I recap convention let me congratulate Bob Cowell, new Fellow of the Society, and Geary Schindel, the new NSS Administrative Vice President. Okay, For all those who said there was no caving; WRONG! It was just you couldn't fit. Well, at least, on the Vermont side. On the Adirondack side, the cave's were maneuverable and beautiful washed marble. And, like, I said, on Friday I was on ice. Many of the session did not happen for lack of entries. Mark and Vonny did a wonderful job of beating the bushes for an excellent International Exploration session. I especially liked the Kite Flying in Chinese Caves. The Geology session was a Milroy short course on the island karst of Bahamas, Barbados and Guam. The other set of talks where from Andraus and his students on the 'climate' of various caves including Jewel and Carlsbad. Late in the day, Matt Covington presented a paper that went by in whirl of variables but I think it looked very interesting. On Wednesday there was a presentation on WNS. One of the saddest moments came when someone asked how the fungus spread from Hasbrook Mine to Aolius Cave, neither place often visited by humans. Maybe we did it. answered Al Hicks, the head bat guy in New York. You could see that they were struggling with the same thing cavers are. Even before they go to collect data, they asked is it worth the possibility that we will do harm. It was clear that those who have seen these massive die-offs are changed. We know more about WNS than I thought we did. The bat's are awakened by the lesions caused by the fungus. Some may survives but their wings are tattered and they can die well into summer because they no longer can hunt efficiently. It seems that while in hibernation the bats can not launch an immune response. That I read to mean this is a problem of hibernating bats, not the Free tail (Crash, correct me if I am wrong). Finally, it was a very old convention. They brought a cake up for Art Palmer for his 70th birthday. He was my advisor and I had no idea. Will White got ovation for attending successively 57 conventions. There was no award for a paper given by someone under 25 because there weren't any. There were handful young people and some children of cavers, but that was it. Josh On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 10:09 PM, Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net wrote: The sessions I went to went very well. Yvonne Droms and I were in charge of International Exploration on Wednesday and we had a full day of exciting talks from China to Mexico and points in between, often with standing room only. My guess is that the average age was more like 50, but it is definitely creeping up. The Syphons were great, as always. The weather was often rainy, but that's par for the course at NSS Conventions. At least there were not high winds, so not many camps were damaged. Groad Hollow was in a nice spot in the woods, which was very nice. Mark Minton At 10:03 PM 8/8/2010, David wrote: I presume everybody is home safe now from the convention ? I feel it is important to discuss the convention, to encourage new cavers unfamiliar with the NSS to attend future conventions, and for those that really wanted to go, but just couldn't make it. This was a difficult convention for most Texas cavers to attend. Only about 13 percent showed up. But there were still more Texas cavers there than Vermont cavers. ( I bet this convention probably broke the record for the number of Vermont cavers to attend. ). I searched the web looking for reports about the convention, but did not find anything. I regret missing almost all of it. Maybe there are still some cavers that are not home yet, who have stories to tell? I saw nearly 25 cavers there from Texas, along with their families. Here are just a few that were wandering around the Howdy Party:Tom Summers, RD Milhollin, Mike Walsh, Jim Kennedy, Bill Mixon, Terry Raines family, Mark Minton ( lives in VA now ), Peter Strickland and sons, Lee Jay Graves, Keith and Lisa Goggins ( of the Terminal Siphons ), Rene Shields, Gary Napper, Chris Thibodaux, Ellie Theone, Jim Coke, and Bill Stone.Who did I leave out ? ( Michael Cicherski, Benjamin and Corrine Schwartz, Kenneth Laidlaw, Josh
Re: [Texascavers] Re: NSS Convention ?
Hear! Hear! That was apparent after the Spring meeting, among other things! Roger -Original Message- From: Josh Rubinstein kars...@gmail.com To: ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com Cc: Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net; texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:54 am Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: NSS Convention ? El, You are the future of the NSS. Josh
RE: [Texascavers] Re: NSS Convention ?
When attending ICS and the spring convention I was impressed that someone so young had such organizational skills and enthusiasm. Ellie is a most attractive young lady. Fritz From: cavera...@aol.com [mailto:cavera...@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 11:08 AM To: kars...@gmail.com; ellie.tho...@gmail.com Cc: mmin...@caver.net; texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: NSS Convention ? Hear! Hear! That was apparent after the Spring meeting, among other things! Roger -Original Message- From: Josh Rubinstein kars...@gmail.com To: ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com Cc: Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net; texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:54 am Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: NSS Convention ? El, You are the future of the NSS. Josh
Re: [Texascavers] Re: NSS Convention ?
A new/young cavers progress is due in large part to the people they surrounded themselves with. Any young caver in Texas can have their pick of great cavers to glean from and I have been honored to follow them wherever they go. I am happy to do my part to contribute to a caving community that has more than impressed me with their dedication. Stay tuned for a side bar writeup about pre and post convention camp in the convention issue of the NSS News! (And of course we will have another great TSA convention in 2011). Now stop me before I get too full of myself! On 8/10/10, cavera...@aol.com cavera...@aol.com wrote: Hear! Hear! That was apparent after the Spring meeting, among other things! Roger -Original Message- From: Josh Rubinstein kars...@gmail.com To: ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com Cc: Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net; texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:54 am Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: NSS Convention ? El, You are the future of the NSS. Josh - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] Re: NSS Convention ?
Hey, Ellie! How 'bout writing something for the TC?! (You knew that was coming). Mark -Original Message- From: ellie :) [mailto:ellie.tho...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 12:28 PM To: cavera...@aol.com Cc: kars...@gmail.com; mmin...@caver.net; texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: NSS Convention ? A new/young cavers progress is due in large part to the people they surrounded themselves with. Any young caver in Texas can have their pick of great cavers to glean from and I have been honored to follow them wherever they go. I am happy to do my part to contribute to a caving community that has more than impressed me with their dedication. Stay tuned for a side bar writeup about pre and post convention camp in the convention issue of the NSS News! (And of course we will have another great TSA convention in 2011). Now stop me before I get too full of myself! - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Re: NSS Convention ?
Alright Ellie, stop now! dont get too full of yourself. sorry, you asked for it, couldnt help it. Nico On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 12:27 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: A new/young cavers progress is due in large part to the people they surrounded themselves with. Any young caver in Texas can have their pick of great cavers to glean from and I have been honored to follow them wherever they go. I am happy to do my part to contribute to a caving community that has more than impressed me with their dedication. Stay tuned for a side bar writeup about pre and post convention camp in the convention issue of the NSS News! (And of course we will have another great TSA convention in 2011). Now stop me before I get too full of myself! On 8/10/10, cavera...@aol.com cavera...@aol.com wrote: Hear! Hear! That was apparent after the Spring meeting, among other things! Roger -Original Message- From: Josh Rubinstein kars...@gmail.com To: ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com Cc: Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net; texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:54 am Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: NSS Convention ? El, You are the future of the NSS. Josh - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] FW: Engineer job with frim owned by caver
Here is an email that I received from Maureen Handler from the Chattanooga area. She is looking for a Civil/Environmental Engineer. Geary Entry Level Civil/Environmental Engineer Business is BUSY! I am looking for an entry level civil or environmental engineer to join a dynamic consulting/contracting business. Recent graduate perferred, no experience necessary. This is a field position. Most time will be spent monitoring civil and environmental aspects of industrial remediation and civil construction projects. Projects are centered in the Chattanooga area. Thanks Take care and see you soon! Maureen Sewanee - Living in Caver's Paradise M H [tnshot...@earthlink.net]
RE: [Texascavers] Do Bats Eat Mosquito's
Almost all US bat species eat mosquitos. For some species, in some parts of the country, at certain times of the year, mosquitos make up a majority of their diet. But is there a species of bat that is a mosquito specialist, forsaking all other prey in favor of those nasty little bloodsuckers? No. And not all species of mosquitoes congregate near the ground, Scott. Some form huge, dense clouds, and can drive even adult caribou to madness. That is most certainly a great food resource for a bat to exploit! -- Crash, bat guy -Original Message- From: SS [mailto:back2scool...@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 9:19 PM To: 'TexasCavers' Subject: [Texascavers] Do Bats Eat Mosquito's This may be a remedial question but I have been engaged in a heated debate as to whether Bats eat mosquitoes, other than the occasional one that it happens to inhale. As small as a bat is I would think even a mosquito would be a dubious meal. Especially since mosquitoes tend to congregate low to the ground and where something like a juicy June bug, Moth, or cricket would be a larger payoff. Can someone settle this debate? Scott Serur - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] bats in the news
The article below was on-line in the New York Times yesterday. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/10/opinion/10tue4.html?partner=rssnytemc=rss Note: According to the reporter, Obama pledged $ 1.9 million towards research on this. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
