[Texascavers] Still needing 1-2 volunteers for O9 Well trip

[Ben Hutchins]

Surely there is some brave caver out there that wants to take a trip to the
premier sport cave in Texas! The rancher that leases the property is in bad
need of caver help. We have one person that has stepped up from Austin to
head out on Saturday April 21, returning on the 22nd. Really need two more
vertically competent cavers to join on the trip. Please email me at
hutchins@gmail.com if you are interested and able.

I am going out of country on April 11th, so must get this trip lined up
with the UT Lands System before then.

Thanks cavers!
Ben
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[Texascavers] Godwin Ranch Cave Preserve Roadside Trash Pickup Sunday April 8, 2018 9:00 am

[Andrea Croskrey]

 Looking for Volunteers!

Godwin Ranch Cave Preserve Roadside Trash Pickup
When: Sunday April 8, 2018 9:00 am
Where: Georgetown
What: pickup trash along the properties road front.

Come help us be a good neighbor and clean up roadside trash along TCMA's
Godwin Ranch property in Georgetown.

Bring:
* Sturdy work gloves, boots, long pants/shirts
* Water, a snack, sun protection
* High-visibility clothing

The Godwin Ranch caves are endangered species caves, so no caving. But if
there is interest we will have a group walk across the property for those
who helped clean up -- the wildflowers should be blooming. And/or, we can
get together for lunch at the Catfish Parlour down the road. Contact Andrea
Croskrey for details / location. Try to carpool!
quartzit...@hotmail.com
303-882-1115 <(303)%20882-1115>
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Re: [Texascavers] pictures

[Logan McNatt]

  
  
Charley, I think you probably intended your message for me rather
than the list.
    Sure, send the photos to me at 4419 Clawson Rd., Austin, TX
78745
Thanks,
Logan

On 4/2/2018 10:36 AM, Charles Loving
  wrote:


  I am such a putz. I write the message down on a
calendar and then loose it. I should put  it on the computer
but... I have these pictures to donate to the cause. Maybe I
should put them in a UPS and send them to you. Address?
  
On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 9:40 AM, Logan
  McNatt 
  wrote:
  
 Thank you Charles for
  hosting the list for many years. You have explained your
  position several times in the past but it was time to
  remind the members of the rules.
  
  Missed you at the TSA Convention. It was a good one.
  
  Thanks again.
  Logan McNatt 

  
 
  On
4/2/2018 9:15 AM, Charles Goldsmith wrote:
  
  
We don't have a moderator per se and
  I'll remind everyone of the rules : http://texascavers.com/rules.html 
  
  
  If the community at large decides they want
moderation, someone can step up and take over
the hosting and administration of the mailing
list.  I don't have the time nor will to
moderate.
  
  
  If you feel someone is getting out of line on
the list, send them a private message.  If you
don't have their contact info, send me a message
and I'll provide it.
  
  
  Thanks
  Charles Goldsmith
  texascavers.com
mailing list administrator
  wo...@justfamily.org
  
  



  On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 8:52 AM
Sheryl Rieck 
wrote:
  
  

  To your point, this forum is for like-minded
  individuals to discuss caving. It is not an
  open form for political, religious or any
  other discussions that reach far outside
  caving. I don’t suppose the moderator can step
  in and stop off topic posts such as these
  where the caving community is being subjected
  to criticism because they wish to discuss
  caving on a caving forum?  
  

  
Sheryl Rieck
sheryl.ri...@gmail.com


"You can't always get what you want but
if you try sometime, you just might find
you get what you need" Rolling Stones

  


  

  
On Apr 2, 2018, at 9:22 AM, Michael
Gibbons <6453...@gmail.com>
wrote:

  
  

  David,
Your a gluten for
  punishment.
You keep on posting
  whatever you feel you need to on
  this site. 
I expect you have as
  much right as the next caver to be
  heard.
The CG refer to me
  as a troll. I submit to you a
  troll then must be defined
  thusly. 
An opposing or
  different view point substantiated
  

Re: [Texascavers] For the record

[Charles Loving]

I am such a putz. I write the message down on a calendar and then loose it.
I should put  it on the computer but... I have these pictures to donate to
the cause. Maybe I should put them in a UPS and send them to you. Address?

On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 9:40 AM, Logan McNatt  wrote:

> Thank you Charles for hosting the list for many years. You have explained
> your position several times in the past but it was time to remind the
> members of the rules.
>
> Missed you at the TSA Convention. It was a good one.
>
> Thanks again.
> Logan McNatt
>
> On 4/2/2018 9:15 AM, Charles Goldsmith wrote:
>
> We don't have a moderator per se and I'll remind everyone of the rules :
> http://texascavers.com/rules.html
>
> If the community at large decides they want moderation, someone can step
> up and take over the hosting and administration of the mailing list.  I
> don't have the time nor will to moderate.
>
> If you feel someone is getting out of line on the list, send them a
> private message.  If you don't have their contact info, send me a message
> and I'll provide it.
>
> Thanks
> Charles Goldsmith
> texascavers.com mailing list administrator
> wo...@justfamily.org
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 8:52 AM Sheryl Rieck 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> To your point, this forum is for like-minded individuals to discuss
>> caving. It is not an open form for political, religious or any other
>> discussions that reach far outside caving. I don’t suppose the moderator
>> can step in and stop off topic posts such as these where the caving
>> community is being subjected to criticism because they wish to discuss
>> caving on a caving forum?
>>
>> Sheryl Rieck
>> sheryl.ri...@gmail.com
>>
>> "You can't always get what you want but if you try sometime, you just
>> might find you get what you need" Rolling Stones
>>
>> On Apr 2, 2018, at 9:22 AM, Michael Gibbons <6453...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> David,
>> Your a gluten for punishment.
>> You keep on posting whatever you feel you need to on this site.
>> I expect you have as much right as the next caver to be heard.
>> The CG refer to me as a troll. I submit to you a troll then must be
>> defined thusly.
>> An opposing or different view point substantiated with evidence proving
>> to be as/or more valid than that of the haters. Who in return resort to
>> name calling when out of intelligent commentary.
>> The troll (or intelligent adversary) has no problem resorting to name
>> calling and sometimes resorts to pre-emptive strikes. This cuts down on the
>> length of the discussion and allows said troll to retire to his slumber
>> under the email bridge awaiting the next attack on superfluous drivel
>> deemed important by the holier than thou.
>> It has become a badge of honor to confound said holies and befuddle their
>> minds. If only they would open them a little they might find some
>> viewpoints with value.
>> At any rate David they don't care for either one of us very much. Take
>> heart in this quote from a book I read as a child"The cure for 50
>> enemies is a single friend".
>> I'm glad to see that you don't measure yourself by the acceptance of
>> others. Nor do I. After all it is only a different perspective from which
>> we view this quagmire we call society and I value knowing the point of view
>> of those that think differently than I. It is important to know who you
>> deal with.
>> Funny thing, I don't have much trouble getting along with those who have
>> taken a moment to get to know me. I dare say the same goes with your
>> idiosyncrasies and folks who take the time to see through those batcrazy
>> eyes of yours. Sometimes your observations border on brilliance, but to
>> those who discount you as simply annoying, it is a loss they suffer. I find
>> a sensitive, caring somewhat confused man who reaches out for like minded
>> folks on a medium intended.for that specific purpose.
>> Carry on McDuff.
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 1, 2018, 11:37 PM David  wrote:
>>
>>> From David Locklear
>>>
>>> There is an interesting cave story in the news.   The link below is a
>>> map of the cave in the story.
>>>
>>> https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2018/
>>> 04/central-london-caves-04.jpg
>>>
>>> But I am not saying more.
>>>
>>> Back before I officially retired, I was advised by the CG ( Cavetex
>>> Gestapos ) to stop posting stuff that anybody can Google ( like Carlsbad
>>> elevator stories )
>>>
>>>
>>> Last week,
>>>
>>> having some spare time due to yet another unexpected work furlough, I
>>> raked diligently through the haystack of the internet looking for a needle
>>> - some story that would spark some speleo-thought.
>>>
>>> I found absolutely nothing whatsoever that was noteworthy.
>>>
>>> And that is when I stumbled on to the story of The Shroud.  I made a
>>> faithful effort to keep it as cave related as possible.
>>>
>>> Anyways,
>>>
>>> National Geographic has already proven the Shroud is a hoax.   They 

Re: [Texascavers] For the record

[Michael Gibbons]

It would be nice to see no one getting criticized for a change.
I will not post anymore uncave related material.

On Mon, Apr 2, 2018, 8:52 AM Sheryl Rieck  wrote:

>
> To your point, this forum is for like-minded individuals to discuss
> caving. It is not an open form for political, religious or any other
> discussions that reach far outside caving. I don’t suppose the moderator
> can step in and stop off topic posts such as these where the caving
> community is being subjected to criticism because they wish to discuss
> caving on a caving forum?
>
> Sheryl Rieck
> sheryl.ri...@gmail.com
>
> "You can't always get what you want but if you try sometime, you just
> might find you get what you need" Rolling Stones
>
> On Apr 2, 2018, at 9:22 AM, Michael Gibbons <6453...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> David,
> Your a gluten for punishment.
> You keep on posting whatever you feel you need to on this site.
> I expect you have as much right as the next caver to be heard.
> The CG refer to me as a troll. I submit to you a troll then must be
> defined thusly.
> An opposing or different view point substantiated with evidence proving to
> be as/or more valid than that of the haters. Who in return resort to name
> calling when out of intelligent commentary.
> The troll (or intelligent adversary) has no problem resorting to name
> calling and sometimes resorts to pre-emptive strikes. This cuts down on the
> length of the discussion and allows said troll to retire to his slumber
> under the email bridge awaiting the next attack on superfluous drivel
> deemed important by the holier than thou.
> It has become a badge of honor to confound said holies and befuddle their
> minds. If only they would open them a little they might find some
> viewpoints with value.
> At any rate David they don't care for either one of us very much. Take
> heart in this quote from a book I read as a child"The cure for 50
> enemies is a single friend".
> I'm glad to see that you don't measure yourself by the acceptance of
> others. Nor do I. After all it is only a different perspective from which
> we view this quagmire we call society and I value knowing the point of view
> of those that think differently than I. It is important to know who you
> deal with.
> Funny thing, I don't have much trouble getting along with those who have
> taken a moment to get to know me. I dare say the same goes with your
> idiosyncrasies and folks who take the time to see through those batcrazy
> eyes of yours. Sometimes your observations border on brilliance, but to
> those who discount you as simply annoying, it is a loss they suffer. I find
> a sensitive, caring somewhat confused man who reaches out for like minded
> folks on a medium intended.for that specific purpose.
> Carry on McDuff.
>
> On Sun, Apr 1, 2018, 11:37 PM David  wrote:
>
>> From David Locklear
>>
>> There is an interesting cave story in the news.   The link below is a map
>> of the cave in the story.
>>
>>
>> https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/central-london-caves-04.jpg
>>
>> But I am not saying more.
>>
>> Back before I officially retired, I was advised by the CG ( Cavetex
>> Gestapos ) to stop posting stuff that anybody can Google ( like Carlsbad
>> elevator stories )
>>
>>
>> Last week,
>>
>> having some spare time due to yet another unexpected work furlough, I
>> raked diligently through the haystack of the internet looking for a needle
>> - some story that would spark some speleo-thought.
>>
>> I found absolutely nothing whatsoever that was noteworthy.
>>
>> And that is when I stumbled on to the story of The Shroud.  I made a
>> faithful effort to keep it as cave related as possible.
>>
>> Anyways,
>>
>> National Geographic has already proven the Shroud is a hoax.   They made
>> a sculpture of what the guy in the Shroud most likely looked would have
>> looked like and it wasn't even close to the image in the Shroud ( which
>> more closely resembles Professor Dumbledore ).   It is not my fault the
>> Shroud story coincides with other stuff.  I was surprised to learn how many
>> people have never heard of the Shroud or what its significance would be it
>> it were not a hoax.   I mean, if you walked into a cave and found a shroud,
>> wouldn't you take it home and out it in a box for safekeeping ?
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>>
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
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> 

Re: [Texascavers] For the record

[Logan McNatt]

  
  
Thank you Charles for hosting the list for many years. You have
explained your position several times in the past but it was time to
remind the members of the rules.

Missed you at the TSA Convention. It was a good one.

Thanks again.
Logan McNatt 

On 4/2/2018 9:15 AM, Charles Goldsmith
  wrote:


  We don't have a moderator per se and I'll remind
everyone of the rules : http://texascavers.com/rules.html 


If the community at large decides they want moderation,
  someone can step up and take over the hosting and
  administration of the mailing list.  I don't have the time nor
  will to moderate.


If you feel someone is getting out of line on the list,
  send them a private message.  If you don't have their contact
  info, send me a message and I'll provide it.


Thanks
Charles Goldsmith
texascavers.com
  mailing list administrator
wo...@justfamily.org


  
  
  
On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 8:52 AM Sheryl Rieck 
  wrote:


  
To your point, this forum is for like-minded individuals to
discuss caving. It is not an open form for political,
religious or any other discussions that reach far outside
caving. I don’t suppose the moderator can step in and stop
off topic posts such as these where the caving community is
being subjected to criticism because they wish to discuss
caving on a caving forum?  

  

  Sheryl Rieck
  sheryl.ri...@gmail.com
  
  
  "You can't always get what you want but if you try
  sometime, you just might find you get what you need"
  Rolling Stones
  

  
  

  

  On Apr 2, 2018, at 9:22 AM, Michael Gibbons <6453...@gmail.com>
  wrote:
  


  
David,
  Your a gluten for punishment.
  You keep on posting whatever you
feel you need to on this site. 
  I expect you have as much right as
the next caver to be heard.
  The CG refer to me as a troll. I
submit to you a troll then must be defined
thusly. 
  An opposing or different view
point substantiated with evidence proving to be
as/or more valid than that of the haters. Who in
return resort to name calling when out of
intelligent commentary.
  The troll (or intelligent
adversary) has no problem resorting to name
calling and sometimes resorts to pre-emptive
strikes. This cuts down on the length of the
discussion and allows said troll to retire to
his slumber under the email bridge awaiting the
next attack on superfluous drivel deemed
important by the holier than thou. 
  It has become a badge of honor to
confound said holies and befuddle their minds.
If only they would open them a little they might
find some viewpoints with value. 
  At any rate David they don't care
for either one of us very much. Take heart in
this quote from a book I read as a child"The
cure for 50 enemies is a single friend".
  I'm glad to see that you don't
measure yourself by the acceptance of others.
Nor do I. After all it is only a different
perspective from which we view this quagmire we
call society and I value knowing the point of
view of those that think differently than I. It
is important to know who you deal with.
  Funny thing, I don't have much
trouble getting along with those who have taken
a moment to get to know me. I dare say the same
goes with your idiosyncrasies and folks who take
the time to see through those batcrazy eyes of
yours. Sometimes your observations border on
  

Re: [Texascavers] For the record

[Charles Goldsmith]

We don't have a moderator per se and I'll remind everyone of the rules :
http://texascavers.com/rules.html

If the community at large decides they want moderation, someone can step up
and take over the hosting and administration of the mailing list.  I don't
have the time nor will to moderate.

If you feel someone is getting out of line on the list, send them a private
message.  If you don't have their contact info, send me a message and I'll
provide it.

Thanks
Charles Goldsmith
texascavers.com mailing list administrator
wo...@justfamily.org


On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 8:52 AM Sheryl Rieck  wrote:

>
> To your point, this forum is for like-minded individuals to discuss
> caving. It is not an open form for political, religious or any other
> discussions that reach far outside caving. I don’t suppose the moderator
> can step in and stop off topic posts such as these where the caving
> community is being subjected to criticism because they wish to discuss
> caving on a caving forum?
>
> Sheryl Rieck
> sheryl.ri...@gmail.com
>
> "You can't always get what you want but if you try sometime, you just
> might find you get what you need" Rolling Stones
>
> On Apr 2, 2018, at 9:22 AM, Michael Gibbons <6453...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> David,
> Your a gluten for punishment.
> You keep on posting whatever you feel you need to on this site.
> I expect you have as much right as the next caver to be heard.
> The CG refer to me as a troll. I submit to you a troll then must be
> defined thusly.
> An opposing or different view point substantiated with evidence proving to
> be as/or more valid than that of the haters. Who in return resort to name
> calling when out of intelligent commentary.
> The troll (or intelligent adversary) has no problem resorting to name
> calling and sometimes resorts to pre-emptive strikes. This cuts down on the
> length of the discussion and allows said troll to retire to his slumber
> under the email bridge awaiting the next attack on superfluous drivel
> deemed important by the holier than thou.
> It has become a badge of honor to confound said holies and befuddle their
> minds. If only they would open them a little they might find some
> viewpoints with value.
> At any rate David they don't care for either one of us very much. Take
> heart in this quote from a book I read as a child"The cure for 50
> enemies is a single friend".
> I'm glad to see that you don't measure yourself by the acceptance of
> others. Nor do I. After all it is only a different perspective from which
> we view this quagmire we call society and I value knowing the point of view
> of those that think differently than I. It is important to know who you
> deal with.
> Funny thing, I don't have much trouble getting along with those who have
> taken a moment to get to know me. I dare say the same goes with your
> idiosyncrasies and folks who take the time to see through those batcrazy
> eyes of yours. Sometimes your observations border on brilliance, but to
> those who discount you as simply annoying, it is a loss they suffer. I find
> a sensitive, caring somewhat confused man who reaches out for like minded
> folks on a medium intended.for that specific purpose.
> Carry on McDuff.
>
> On Sun, Apr 1, 2018, 11:37 PM David  wrote:
>
>> From David Locklear
>>
>> There is an interesting cave story in the news.   The link below is a map
>> of the cave in the story.
>>
>>
>> https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/central-london-caves-04.jpg
>>
>> But I am not saying more.
>>
>> Back before I officially retired, I was advised by the CG ( Cavetex
>> Gestapos ) to stop posting stuff that anybody can Google ( like Carlsbad
>> elevator stories )
>>
>>
>> Last week,
>>
>> having some spare time due to yet another unexpected work furlough, I
>> raked diligently through the haystack of the internet looking for a needle
>> - some story that would spark some speleo-thought.
>>
>> I found absolutely nothing whatsoever that was noteworthy.
>>
>> And that is when I stumbled on to the story of The Shroud.  I made a
>> faithful effort to keep it as cave related as possible.
>>
>> Anyways,
>>
>> National Geographic has already proven the Shroud is a hoax.   They made
>> a sculpture of what the guy in the Shroud most likely looked would have
>> looked like and it wasn't even close to the image in the Shroud ( which
>> more closely resembles Professor Dumbledore ).   It is not my fault the
>> Shroud story coincides with other stuff.  I was surprised to learn how many
>> people have never heard of the Shroud or what its significance would be it
>> it were not a hoax.   I mean, if you walked into a cave and found a shroud,
>> wouldn't you take it home and out it in a box for safekeeping ?
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
>> 

Re: [Texascavers] For the record

[Sheryl Rieck]

To your point, this forum is for like-minded individuals to discuss caving. It 
is not an open form for political, religious or any other discussions that 
reach far outside caving. I don’t suppose the moderator can step in and stop 
off topic posts such as these where the caving community is being subjected to 
criticism because they wish to discuss caving on a caving forum?  

Sheryl Rieck
sheryl.ri...@gmail.com

"You can't always get what you want but if you try sometime, you just might 
find you get what you need" Rolling Stones

> On Apr 2, 2018, at 9:22 AM, Michael Gibbons <6453...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> David,
> Your a gluten for punishment.
> You keep on posting whatever you feel you need to on this site. 
> I expect you have as much right as the next caver to be heard.
> The CG refer to me as a troll. I submit to you a troll then must be defined 
> thusly. 
> An opposing or different view point substantiated with evidence proving to be 
> as/or more valid than that of the haters. Who in return resort to name 
> calling when out of intelligent commentary.
> The troll (or intelligent adversary) has no problem resorting to name calling 
> and sometimes resorts to pre-emptive strikes. This cuts down on the length of 
> the discussion and allows said troll to retire to his slumber under the email 
> bridge awaiting the next attack on superfluous drivel deemed important by the 
> holier than thou. 
> It has become a badge of honor to confound said holies and befuddle their 
> minds. If only they would open them a little they might find some viewpoints 
> with value. 
> At any rate David they don't care for either one of us very much. Take heart 
> in this quote from a book I read as a child"The cure for 50 enemies is a 
> single friend".
> I'm glad to see that you don't measure yourself by the acceptance of others. 
> Nor do I. After all it is only a different perspective from which we view 
> this quagmire we call society and I value knowing the point of view of those 
> that think differently than I. It is important to know who you deal with.
> Funny thing, I don't have much trouble getting along with those who have 
> taken a moment to get to know me. I dare say the same goes with your 
> idiosyncrasies and folks who take the time to see through those batcrazy eyes 
> of yours. Sometimes your observations border on brilliance, but to those who 
> discount you as simply annoying, it is a loss they suffer. I find a 
> sensitive, caring somewhat confused man who reaches out for like minded folks 
> on a medium intended.for that specific purpose.
> Carry on McDuff.
> 
>> On Sun, Apr 1, 2018, 11:37 PM David  wrote:
>> From David Locklear
>> 
>> There is an interesting cave story in the news.   The link below is a map of 
>> the cave in the story.
>> 
>> https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/central-london-caves-04.jpg
>> 
>> But I am not saying more.
>> 
>> Back before I officially retired, I was advised by the CG ( Cavetex Gestapos 
>> ) to stop posting stuff that anybody can Google ( like Carlsbad elevator 
>> stories )
>> 
>> 
>> Last week,
>> 
>> having some spare time due to yet another unexpected work furlough, I raked 
>> diligently through the haystack of the internet looking for a needle - some 
>> story that would spark some speleo-thought.
>> 
>> I found absolutely nothing whatsoever that was noteworthy.
>> 
>> And that is when I stumbled on to the story of The Shroud.  I made a 
>> faithful effort to keep it as cave related as possible.
>> 
>> Anyways,
>> 
>> National Geographic has already proven the Shroud is a hoax.   They made a 
>> sculpture of what the guy in the Shroud most likely looked would have looked 
>> like and it wasn't even close to the image in the Shroud ( which more 
>> closely resembles Professor Dumbledore ).   It is not my fault the Shroud 
>> story coincides with other stuff.  I was surprised to learn how many people 
>> have never heard of the Shroud or what its significance would be it it were 
>> not a hoax.   I mean, if you walked into a cave and found a shroud, wouldn't 
>> you take it home and out it in a box for safekeeping ?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
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Re: [Texascavers] For the record

[Michael Gibbons]

David,
Your a gluten for punishment.
You keep on posting whatever you feel you need to on this site.
I expect you have as much right as the next caver to be heard.
The CG refer to me as a troll. I submit to you a troll then must be defined
thusly.
An opposing or different view point substantiated with evidence proving to
be as/or more valid than that of the haters. Who in return resort to name
calling when out of intelligent commentary.
The troll (or intelligent adversary) has no problem resorting to name
calling and sometimes resorts to pre-emptive strikes. This cuts down on the
length of the discussion and allows said troll to retire to his slumber
under the email bridge awaiting the next attack on superfluous drivel
deemed important by the holier than thou.
It has become a badge of honor to confound said holies and befuddle their
minds. If only they would open them a little they might find some
viewpoints with value.
At any rate David they don't care for either one of us very much. Take
heart in this quote from a book I read as a child"The cure for 50
enemies is a single friend".
I'm glad to see that you don't measure yourself by the acceptance of
others. Nor do I. After all it is only a different perspective from which
we view this quagmire we call society and I value knowing the point of view
of those that think differently than I. It is important to know who you
deal with.
Funny thing, I don't have much trouble getting along with those who have
taken a moment to get to know me. I dare say the same goes with your
idiosyncrasies and folks who take the time to see through those batcrazy
eyes of yours. Sometimes your observations border on brilliance, but to
those who discount you as simply annoying, it is a loss they suffer. I find
a sensitive, caring somewhat confused man who reaches out for like minded
folks on a medium intended.for that specific purpose.
Carry on McDuff.

On Sun, Apr 1, 2018, 11:37 PM David  wrote:

> From David Locklear
>
> There is an interesting cave story in the news.   The link below is a map
> of the cave in the story.
>
>
> https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/central-london-caves-04.jpg
>
> But I am not saying more.
>
> Back before I officially retired, I was advised by the CG ( Cavetex
> Gestapos ) to stop posting stuff that anybody can Google ( like Carlsbad
> elevator stories )
>
>
> Last week,
>
> having some spare time due to yet another unexpected work furlough, I
> raked diligently through the haystack of the internet looking for a needle
> - some story that would spark some speleo-thought.
>
> I found absolutely nothing whatsoever that was noteworthy.
>
> And that is when I stumbled on to the story of The Shroud.  I made a
> faithful effort to keep it as cave related as possible.
>
> Anyways,
>
> National Geographic has already proven the Shroud is a hoax.   They made a
> sculpture of what the guy in the Shroud most likely looked would have
> looked like and it wasn't even close to the image in the Shroud ( which
> more closely resembles Professor Dumbledore ).   It is not my fault the
> Shroud story coincides with other stuff.  I was surprised to learn how many
> people have never heard of the Shroud or what its significance would be it
> it were not a hoax.   I mean, if you walked into a cave and found a shroud,
> wouldn't you take it home and out it in a box for safekeeping ?
>
>
>
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Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Re: [SWR CAVERS] Michigan family on spring break gets trapped in New Mexico cave

[John Brooks]

Compare discussions?

Logan - Are you saying there is an elevator in 09 well?


Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 1, 2018, at 10:27 PM, Logan McNatt  wrote:
> 
> Here's what our neighbors on the SWRCAVERS list are talking about--an actual 
> true event that happened in a cave in New Mexico a couple of days ago. 
> Compare this discussion with the recent one on the TEXASCAVERS list.
> Sincerely,
> Logan McNatt
> 
> 
>  Forwarded Message 
> Subject:  Re: [SWR CAVERS] Michigan family on spring break gets trapped 
> in New Mexico cave
> Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2018 13:28:54 -0600
> From: jerryatkin via Southwestern Cavers of the National Speleological 
> Society 
> Reply-To: jerryat...@aol.com
> To:   Jennifer Foote 
> CC:   Ray Keeler , jtml , Southwestern Cavers 
> of the National Speleological Society 
> 
> This was one of the service elevators that they had been using while the main 
> elevators are being fixed. A cable for the elevator controls broke. The main 
> elevators are still being worked on. Hopefully by early summer, the mains 
> will be back on line. 
> 
> Jerry Atkinson.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Apr 1, 2018, at 10:48 AM, Jennifer Foote  wrote:
> 
>> I want to know who the elavator park service ranger was!
>> 
>>> On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 9:38 AM, Ray Keeler  wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> Didn’t Carlsbad just fix the elevators? Just   
>>> wondering, see below …
>>> 
>>> Ray
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> http://fox6now.com/2018/03/30/michigan-family-on-spring-break-gets-trapped-in-new-mexico-cave/
>>> 
>>> Michigan family on spring break gets trapped in New Mexico cave
>>> Posted 10:23 am, March 30, 2018, by CNN 
>>> Wire Service, Updated at 02:47PM, March 30, 2018
>>> 
>>> CARLSBA D CAVERN NATIONAL PARK, N.M. — A Michigan family’s Spring Break 
>>> trip is one they’ll likely never forget. The mother and son from Ypsilanti 
>>> got trapped in an elevator, 700-feet below ground in the Carlsbad Cavern 
>>> National Park.
>>> Kiersten Gawronski and her 17-year-old son Oliver Chapman were trapped for 
>>> three hours with just one bottle of water and no food, surrounded by 
>>> nothing but stone and dirt.
>>> “It just seemed to weird. It was a very sudden jolt and then we looked out 
>>> the window. It was nothing but solid rock around us,” Kiersten Gawronski 
>>> tells FOX 17 News. “It just seemed so weird and uncharacteristic to end the 
>>> elevator ride with just such a jolt and then see nothing but rock. So I 
>>> thought it was strange. I realized very quickly that this was not normal.”< 
>>> o>
>>> A kind voice on the other end of the elevator’s service phone made the 
>>> situation bearable.
>>> “A very nice park service person named Charlie answered. And I said, ‘I 
>>> think we’re stuck,’ and he said ‘we are aware of it and we’re working on it 
>>> right now,” Gawronski added.
>>> That, a bottle of water, adrenaline, and a few spot-on jokes got them 
>>> through.
>>> “We didn’t have food, but we weren’t hungry. Mostly we spent a lot of time 
>>> joking about our situation. We’re big fans of the TV show The Office. 
>>> Something slightly similar happens to two of the characters. Dwight and Pam 
>>> are stuck in an elevator and Dwight and Pam establishes a pee corner. So we 
>>> joked about that,” says Gawronski and Chapman.
>>> Thankfully that wasn’t necessary, but, an action packed rescue did happen.
>>> “The fireman came in the cars with us and helped us harness up and, of 
>>> course, cross over to the working car. The park service ranger, he rode on 
>>> top of the working elevator all the way down in the dark, 750 feet down to 
>>> where we were, and rode back up on top of the cart in the dark…that man 
>>> must have nerves of steel,” Gawronski says.
>>> Back on solid ground, they say they’re still planning to head back to 
>>> Carlsbad Cave as soon as possible.
>>> “Yea, we wanted to go back that next morning. But, we called and the 
>>> elevators were still out of service, so at some point, sometime in the 
>>> future, we will get back to Carlsbad Caverns,” says Chapman and Gawronski.
>>> Inspection of the elevator that stalled indicated that a worn cable that 
>>> sends signals to the elevator controls caused the prob lem. That elevator 
>>> will remain out of commission until the cable can be repaired.
>>> Trademark and Copyright 2018 Cable News Network, Inc., a Time Warner 
>>> Company. All rights reserved
>>>  
>>> 
>>> -- 
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>>> To post to this