Re: [Texascavers] Cave of Adams

[Katherine Arens]

which was the original mistake.

On May 29, 2018, at 5:33 PM, Alex 
mailto:imoca...@comcast.net>> wrote:

C'mon, guys! Apostrophes are indeed pesky. And also unnecessary. According to 
the Feds, proper names never include apostrophes, which indicate posession.

Alex

On 28 May 2018 at 23:03, Logan McNatt wrote:

> Bill, thanks for your input. In the labyrinth of lexicology, you are certainly
> one of the Wizards--Well done.
> LowGun
>
> On 5/28/2018 7:01 PM, Mixon Bill wrote:
>
> That pesky apostrophe! Strictly speaking, if one wants the possessive form
> of the cave name, neither Adam's (puts it in the middle of the poor guy's
> name) nor Adams' ( (Adams is not plural) is correct. It should have been
> Adams's Cave. -- Mixon
> 
> A chicken is the egg's way of making another egg.
> 
> You may "reply" to the address this message
> (unless it's a TexasCavers list post)
> came from, but for long-term use, save:
> Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
> AMCS: a...@mexicancaves.org or  
> edi...@mexicancaves.org
>
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> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
>


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Katherine ArensPhones: Office(512) 232-6363
ar...@austin.utexas.edu   Dept. Phone:  (512) 
471-4123
Dept. of Germanic Studies FAX (512) 471-4025
2505 University Ave, C3300  Bldg.Location:  Burdine 336
University of Texas at Austin Office:  Burdine 320
Austin, TX  78712-1802
  -. .-
 _..-'()`-.._
 ./'. '||\\.(\_/) .//||` .`\.
  ./'.|'.'\\|..)O O(..|//`.`|.`\.
./'..|'.|| |\`` '`" '` ''/| ||.`|..`\.
  ./'.||'. .  .  .`||.`\.
 /'|||'.|| {   } ||.`|||`\
'.|||'.||| {   } |||.`|||.`
'.||| | |/'   ``\||`` ''||/''   `\| | |||.`
 |/' \./' `\./\!|\   /|!/\./' `\./ `\|
V  VV}' `\ /' `{V   VV
 ``  `V ' ' '



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Re: [Texascavers] UT Grotto Meeting 5.30.18

[Aimee Beveridge]

Bring a towel if you want to swim. Clothing optional pool

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 5:03 PM, Denise P wrote:   
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Re: [Texascavers] Cave of Adams

[Alex]

C'mon, guys! Apostrophes are indeed pesky. And also unnecessary. 
According to the Feds, proper names never include apostrophes, which 
indicate posession.

Alex

On 28 May 2018 at 23:03, Logan McNatt wrote:

> Bill, thanks for your input. In the labyrinth of lexicology, you are 
> certainly 
> one of the Wizards--Well done.
> LowGun
> 
> On 5/28/2018 7:01 PM, Mixon Bill wrote:
> 
> That pesky apostrophe! Strictly speaking, if one wants the possessive form 
> of the cave name, neither Adam's (puts it in the middle of the poor guy's 
> name) nor Adams' ( (Adams is not plural) is correct. It should have been 
> Adams's Cave. -- Mixon
> 
> A chicken is the egg's way of making another egg.
> 
> You may "reply" to the address this message
> (unless it's a TexasCavers list post)
> came from, but for long-term use, save:
> Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
> AMCS: a...@mexicancaves.org or  edi...@mexicancaves.org
> 
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
> 
> 


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Re: [Texascavers] UT Grotto Meeting 5.30.18

[Denise P]

Parking is limited at Geoff and Aimee's. Some folks park on Riley or at Ken's 
place per the map. Carpool if you can!


-Denise



From: Texascavers  on behalf of Denise P 

Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 9:51 PM
To: TexasCavers
Subject: [Texascavers] UT Grotto Meeting 5.30.18




From: patty calabrese

Greetings Cavers!

Join us for our UT Grotto Meeting this Wednesday May 30th at 8pm.

Be an asset to any expedition, learn to coil rope like a pro.  Saj Zappitello 
will tell a few cave safety stories and lead a rope coiling workshop. Bring 
your own rope if you want to practice. If enough people bring ropes and we have 
time, there may even be a rope coiling competition!

This week's meeting will be held at generous grotto members Geoff Hoese and 
Aimee Beveridge's house at 2605 Stratford Drive, Austin, TX 78746.  See 
attached map to find good parking in that area.  The meeting will be BYOB but 
go ahead and eat dinner ahead of time.

Don't forget your coil of rope and see you there!
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Re: [Texascavers] UTGrotto at UTAustin, the end of an error

[Robert Tait]

Wow, this is sad news. After landing in Austin for a job, the UT caving
community  became my local family.  I looked forward to the meetings,
trips, and the Posse, and other events that orbited around the community..
Gils Hot tub, Saturday swims, and more.  I  still managed a few trips over
the last 15 years since moving to NY.

Next, will cave trips be banned altogether for a university club from going
outdoors, like Penn State?

Tait (now in upstate ny)

On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 5:06 AM, Justin Shaw  wrote:

> Welp, the cats out of the bag over on Facebook so I figured I’d give it a
> mention here.
>
> Not much info in the public post and being that I’m not on Facebook I
> can’t read into the reply’s. As I understand it, the University of Texas is
> no longer willing to allow visitors* to the University Speleological
> Society meetings. They also instituted advance paperwork to be completed
> for hosting guest* speakers.
>
> * a visitor and/or guest is anyone not affiliated with the university
> through enrollment or employment.
>
> Obviously, this excludes practically everyone in the Underground Texas
> Grotto and will likely result in the end of a University Speleological
> Society. At least moving forward we wont have to dance around with
> semantics as if there’s two different organizations.
>
> We’ve known this could happen for quite some time, so a dedicated few have
> actually already done some research in the realm of meeting spaces. It
> won’t be easy to replace what we had so if you have any novel contacts or
> leads I'm sure the officers would appreciate you reaching out.
>
> The Facebook post suggested “this week’s meeting may unfortunately just
> have to be canceled” [sic]. While I don’t anticipate finding a replacement
> meeting facility on this short of notice, I would suggest many will still
> rally at The Posse East this Wednesday - for what might well be the last
> time. Wasn’t that where the Underground Texas Grotto officially meets,
> anyway.
>
>
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[Texascavers] meeting related

[David]

>From David Locklear

I have attended about 10 UT Grotto meetings in the past 31 years.And
several
parties that the grotto members hosted, and even been in a few Travis
County caves.

I have attended probably 60 GHG meetings, and attended some of their
parties,

And about 10 meetings and a few parties at the DFW Grotto.

And maybe 2 in San Antonio, along with several parties, and about 3 trips to
Robber Barron Cave.

I have been to about 50 plus A.S.S. meetings, and attended a few of their
parties.

I have even attempted to form grottos at UofH, or re-ignite one at Rice, or
virtual
grottos on the the web.   And sort of tried to get something going in
Brenham at
the Blinn College.

One issue you run into, is that occasionally you attract the wrong kind of
people to
the group, or at least one with a different mindset. You might even get
some really
crazy guy that just goes off ranting about irrelevant cr*p.

Some grotto meetings have taken place at restaurants in their party
section. This seems
to work if the place is centrally located, and inexpensive, and has good
food and beer, and
has some sort of nostalgic atmosphere. But those kind of places just do
not seem to
exist anymore, especially within walking distance of a campus.

It is my opinion, that the area around the UT Campus seems to attract a lot
of street-people.
If that is true, I don't think other grottos have that problem.

Moving too far from campus, you lose the possible new influx of student
cavers.

I have fond memories of UT Grotto meetings.It was kind of like the
movie Groundhog Day.
as things were often identical each time I went. I have futilely tried
to attend dozens of UT
Grotto meetings, and the stars did not align.

I am still hoping to make some trips to both future meetings and to events
at the TSC, but with
the high cost of gas, I can't drive across town without a valid reason.

I hope you all find a nice place that is at least semi-permanent.

D.L.
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Re: [Texascavers] UTGrotto

[Mixon Bill]

I can't see the Texas Speleology Center (ex my house) accommodating the crowd 
that attends UT Grotto meetings. --  Mixon

A chicken is the egg's way of making another egg.

You may "reply" to the address this message
(unless it's a TexasCavers list post)
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@mexicancaves.org or  edi...@mexicancaves.org

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[Texascavers] Kerr County caves survey

[Ben Hutchins]

Good morning cavers,

I have been invited to survey 3 caves north of Comfort in NW Kerr County,
and I'm looking for 2 cavers to come with. I'm planning to head out there
on Tuesday, June 12, and then going again the next day, Wednesday June 13
if it's warranted. We will survey whatever we find that meets the Texas
definition of a cave and we will conduct a biologic inventory. So, looking
for people that can read instruments and set stations.

I have no description of the caves so am prepared for the worst. In other
words, be prepared for low, tight, porcupine groad holes or maybe they will
turn out to not even be caves at all! Who knows? I'd like to try and be out
there by 8:30 AM so that we have a full day for survey if needed (8-12
hrs). People are welcome to ride with me, but I'll be heading out from San
Marcos so that might not be much help.  I realize that this is on a
weekday, but work or cave?..let your inner cave bum shine!

Email me off list if you're interested.
Ben Hutchins
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[Texascavers] ideas for meeting

[Katherine Arens]

1) st. ed’s?  Houston-Tillotson College?
2) has anyone checked Scottish rite theater?
3) Get in touch with alamo draft house for the space they’ve bought in hyde 
park — not immediately, but for the near future. It’s a community center and 
has an auditorium
4) Kerby Hall School right north of campus
5) local churches other than baptist


Katherine ArensPhones: Office(512) 232-6363
ar...@austin.utexas.edu   Dept. Phone:  (512) 
471-4123
Dept. of Germanic Studies FAX (512) 471-4025
2505 University Ave, C3300  Bldg.Location:  Burdine 336
University of Texas at Austin Office:  Burdine 320
Austin, TX  78712-1802
  -. .-
 _..-'()`-.._
 ./'. '||\\.(\_/) .//||` .`\.
  ./'.|'.'\\|..)O O(..|//`.`|.`\.
./'..|'.|| |\`` '`" '` ''/| ||.`|..`\.
  ./'.||'. .  .  .`||.`\.
 /'|||'.|| {   } ||.`|||`\
'.|||'.||| {   } |||.`|||.`
'.||| | |/'   ``\||`` ''||/''   `\| | |||.`
 |/' \./' `\./\!|\   /|!/\./' `\./ `\|
V  VV}' `\ /' `{V   VV
 ``  `V ' ' '



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Re: [Texascavers] UTGrotto at UTAustin, the end of an error

[Katherine Arens]

HEY, try st. ed’s maybe?   One of the ACC campuses?

UT Grotto has been Underground Texas for a while anyway . . .


On May 29, 2018, at 4:06 AM, Justin Shaw 
mailto:jus...@oztotl.net>> wrote:

Welp, the cats out of the bag over on Facebook so I figured I’d give it a 
mention here.

Not much info in the public post and being that I’m not on Facebook I can’t 
read into the reply’s. As I understand it, the University of Texas is no longer 
willing to allow visitors* to the University Speleological Society meetings. 
They also instituted advance paperwork to be completed for hosting guest* 
speakers.

* a visitor and/or guest is anyone not affiliated with the university through 
enrollment or employment.

Obviously, this excludes practically everyone in the Underground Texas Grotto 
and will likely result in the end of a University Speleological Society. At 
least moving forward we wont have to dance around with semantics as if there’s 
two different organizations.

We’ve known this could happen for quite some time, so a dedicated few have 
actually already done some research in the realm of meeting spaces. It won’t be 
easy to replace what we had so if you have any novel contacts or leads I'm sure 
the officers would appreciate you reaching out.

The Facebook post suggested “this week’s meeting may unfortunately just have to 
be canceled” [sic]. While I don’t anticipate finding a replacement meeting 
facility on this short of notice, I would suggest many will still rally at The 
Posse East this Wednesday - for what might well be the last time. Wasn’t that 
where the Underground Texas Grotto officially meets, anyway.


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Katherine ArensPhones: Office(512) 232-6363
ar...@austin.utexas.edu   Dept. Phone:  (512) 
471-4123
Dept. of Germanic Studies FAX (512) 471-4025
2505 University Ave, C3300  Bldg.Location:  Burdine 336
University of Texas at Austin Office:  Burdine 320
Austin, TX  78712-1802
  -. .-
 _..-'()`-.._
 ./'. '||\\.(\_/) .//||` .`\.
  ./'.|'.'\\|..)O O(..|//`.`|.`\.
./'..|'.|| |\`` '`" '` ''/| ||.`|..`\.
  ./'.||'. .  .  .`||.`\.
 /'|||'.|| {   } ||.`|||`\
'.|||'.||| {   } |||.`|||.`
'.||| | |/'   ``\||`` ''||/''   `\| | |||.`
 |/' \./' `\./\!|\   /|!/\./' `\./ `\|
V  VV}' `\ /' `{V   VV
 ``  `V ' ' '



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Re: [Texascavers] UTGrotto

[Crystal Datri]

There are a number of new eateries, breweries, distilleries, etc. in the
vicinity.

Crystal Datri

On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 7:57 AM, Jim Kennedy  wrote:

> It's not centrally located, and definitely not bikeable, but the
> University of Texas Speleological Society (aka UT Grotto) would be able to
> meet in the new Texas Speleological Center (aka Mixon's old house).
>
> Jim
>
> Mobile email from my iPhone
>
> > On May 29, 2018, at 4:06 AM, Justin Shaw  wrote:
> >
> > Welp, the cats out of the bag over on Facebook so I figured I’d give it
> a mention here.
> >
> > Not much info in the public post and being that I’m not on Facebook I
> can’t read into the reply’s. As I understand it, the University of Texas is
> no longer willing to allow visitors* to the University Speleological
> Society meetings. They also instituted advance paperwork to be completed
> for hosting guest* speakers.
> >
> > * a visitor and/or guest is anyone not affiliated with the university
> through enrollment or employment.
> >
> > Obviously, this excludes practically everyone in the Underground Texas
> Grotto and will likely result in the end of a University Speleological
> Society. At least moving forward we wont have to dance around with
> semantics as if there’s two different organizations.
> >
> > We’ve known this could happen for quite some time, so a dedicated few
> have actually already done some research in the realm of meeting spaces. It
> won’t be easy to replace what we had so if you have any novel contacts or
> leads I'm sure the officers would appreciate you reaching out.
> >
> > The Facebook post suggested “this week’s meeting may unfortunately just
> have to be canceled” [sic]. While I don’t anticipate finding a replacement
> meeting facility on this short of notice, I would suggest many will still
> rally at The Posse East this Wednesday - for what might well be the last
> time. Wasn’t that where the Underground Texas Grotto officially meets,
> anyway.
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/
> texascavers@texascavers.com/
> > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
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[Texascavers] UTGrotto

[Jim Kennedy]

It's not centrally located, and definitely not bikeable, but the University of 
Texas Speleological Society (aka UT Grotto) would be able to meet in the new 
Texas Speleological Center (aka Mixon's old house).

Jim

Mobile email from my iPhone

> On May 29, 2018, at 4:06 AM, Justin Shaw  wrote:
> 
> Welp, the cats out of the bag over on Facebook so I figured I’d give it a 
> mention here. 
> 
> Not much info in the public post and being that I’m not on Facebook I can’t 
> read into the reply’s. As I understand it, the University of Texas is no 
> longer willing to allow visitors* to the University Speleological Society 
> meetings. They also instituted advance paperwork to be completed for hosting 
> guest* speakers.
> 
> * a visitor and/or guest is anyone not affiliated with the university through 
> enrollment or employment.
> 
> Obviously, this excludes practically everyone in the Underground Texas Grotto 
> and will likely result in the end of a University Speleological Society. At 
> least moving forward we wont have to dance around with semantics as if 
> there’s two different organizations. 
> 
> We’ve known this could happen for quite some time, so a dedicated few have 
> actually already done some research in the realm of meeting spaces. It won’t 
> be easy to replace what we had so if you have any novel contacts or leads I'm 
> sure the officers would appreciate you reaching out. 
> 
> The Facebook post suggested “this week’s meeting may unfortunately just have 
> to be canceled” [sic]. While I don’t anticipate finding a replacement meeting 
> facility on this short of notice, I would suggest many will still rally at 
> The Posse East this Wednesday - for what might well be the last time. Wasn’t 
> that where the Underground Texas Grotto officially meets, anyway.
> 
> 
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
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Re: [Texascavers] Appropriate cave place names

[John Brooks]

Appropriate or inappropriate cave names?:
There is a small cave in Oklahoma that we named “dog shit pit”. The first 
person down complained “oh hell there is just a bunch of dog shit down here”. 
I thought that was a weird thing to say and wondered why a dog would poop 
thereso I questioned him.and the response was “yeahit’s real f@@ing 
dog shit”
After he returned to the surface - I had to get on rope and go down and see. It 
was tight with razor like rock blades, bad air, some mudand maybe some 
animal bones. But no dog shit.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 28, 2018, at 1:49 PM, Mark Minton  wrote:
> 
> Gary Poole also has a place named for him in Honey Creek: Poole's Pool. We 
> were surveying beyond the Trifurcation in waist- to chest-deep water. Gary 
> was sketching and suddenly stepped off into a deep pothole. He went in over 
> his head, but managed to keep the book dry by holding one arm up over his 
> head. That single hand with the book sticking out of the water looked like 
> "Thing" on the Addams Family.
> 
> In Cueva de la Peña (SLP, Mexico) Jeff Horowitz dropped a coil of rope into a 
> deep pothole full of water at the base of a short drop. He managed to 
> retrieve the rope after diving for it. That place became known as Horowitz 
> Sunk. 
> 
> Then there's the "Can You Stay Dry" passage in Joya de Salas. There was a 
> deep pool covered with scuzzy organic debris that one could tiptoe around on 
> skinny ledges while doing an undercling on small nubbins. It was a totally 
> committing move, because you had to lean back over the water. If it worked, 
> you got off dry, but if you missed a foot- or handhold, you got totally 
> submerged. More than one person took the plunge, as did another coil of rope. 
> We finally got the rope back by fishing it out with a tent stake lashed to a 
> pole.
> 
> Mark Minton
> mmin...@caver.net
> 
> On Mon, 28 May, 2018 at 1:44 PM, George Veni  wrote:
>  
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Actually, Logan’s description pretty much says it all. A handhold broke and 
> Gary made the first descent of the waterfall. That was in October 1979 when 
> we broke the Texas depth record and on our first exploration of that lovely 
> stream passage.
>  
> We were too excited to be phased by the plunge, but were disappointed when we 
> found a sump around the corner. We bypassed it via an upper level on a later 
> trip, found a second sump that we also bypassed by climbing high, and 
> downstream exploration remains stopped at a third sump that will need diving.
>  
> George
>  
> 
> George Veni, PhD
> Executive Director
> National Cave and Karst Research Institute (NCKRI)
> and
> President
> International Union of Speleology (UIS)
>  
> Direct address at NCKRI
> 400-1 Cascades Avenue
> Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA
> Office: +1-575-887-5517
> Mobile: +1-210-863-5919
> Fax: +1-575-887-5523
> gv...@nckri.org
> www.nckri.org
>  
> UIS address:
> Titov trg 2
> 6230 Postojna
> Slovenia
> www.uis-speleo.org
>  
> From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
> Logan McNatt
> Sent: Monday, May 28, 2018 11:06
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Appropriate cave place names
>  
> In the stream passage at the bottom of Sorcerer's Cave (originally called 
> Adam's Cave) in Terrell County, TX, there is a 1.5 m waterfall into a plunge 
> pool. During a 1978/79 survey by the San Antonio Grotto (SAG), a caver took 
> an unplanned dip into the pool. The place was christened Poole Plunge in 
> honor of the caver--Gary Poole. George Veni can provide more details if 
> requested.
> 
> Logan McNatt
> lmcn...@austin.rr.com
> 
> On 5/28/2018 9:25 AM, Mark Minton wrote:
> Bill Steele's mention of Kerr Plunk reminded me of another similarly 
> appropriate place name in a cave. Actually, it was in the Buenavista Mine at 
> Minas Viejas. Brian Burton (RIP) had his dog along on one trip into the mine. 
> The dog suddenly raced ahead and jumped to its death down a 100-foot shaft. 
> We have no idea why the dog did that; best guess is that it thought it was a 
> pool of water. We named the shaft Dog Gone Pit.
> Mark Minton
> mmin...@caver.net
> 
> On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 5:10 PM, Bill Steele  wrote:
> Tennessee caver Chris Kerr fell in Sistema Purificacion in 1978 and fractured 
> his femur. Cavers from Austin drove Terry Sayther’s caving truck up into a 
> military C130 cargo plane and were flown to Victoria, Tamps., Mexico to 
> rescue him. The spot where he fell is named Kerr Plunk.
> 
> Bill Steele
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[Texascavers] UTG Meeting

[Denise P]

From Patty Calabrese:

Hi all.
We've been expecting this for some time, but University of Texas has decided we 
are no longer able to use a room on campus for our grotto meetings.  We will 
keep you posted if another location very quickly comes up, but this week's 
meeting may unfortunately just have to be cancelled.
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[Texascavers] UTGrotto at UTAustin, the end of an error

[Justin Shaw]

Welp, the cats out of the bag over on Facebook so I figured I’d give it a 
mention here. 

Not much info in the public post and being that I’m not on Facebook I can’t 
read into the reply’s. As I understand it, the University of Texas is no longer 
willing to allow visitors* to the University Speleological Society meetings. 
They also instituted advance paperwork to be completed for hosting guest* 
speakers.

* a visitor and/or guest is anyone not affiliated with the university through 
enrollment or employment.

Obviously, this excludes practically everyone in the Underground Texas Grotto 
and will likely result in the end of a University Speleological Society. At 
least moving forward we wont have to dance around with semantics as if there’s 
two different organizations. 

We’ve known this could happen for quite some time, so a dedicated few have 
actually already done some research in the realm of meeting spaces. It won’t be 
easy to replace what we had so if you have any novel contacts or leads I'm sure 
the officers would appreciate you reaching out. 

The Facebook post suggested “this week’s meeting may unfortunately just have to 
be canceled” [sic]. While I don’t anticipate finding a replacement meeting 
facility on this short of notice, I would suggest many will still rally at The 
Posse East this Wednesday - for what might well be the last time. Wasn’t that 
where the Underground Texas Grotto officially meets, anyway.


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