[Texascavers] Giant Caves of Northern Mexico

[PRESTON FORSYTHE]

As a special pre-convention trip for the last TEXAS NSS National Convention, 
Aimee and Pete Strickland put together the above trip. The temperature daily 
hit 107, but that was a cost of a great week.
We went swimming at the springs in Bustamente Canyon, below Precipcio. From the 
road I tried to locate the old trail up to Precipcio. Hard to do but if you 
walked to the right spot you could see the entrance way up there. What a dark 
hole and goal to shoot for as a caver. Hats off to Blake and the Hog of Steele.
The first major group cave was Palmito. Orion Knox's map was and still is an 
incredible work of ART. Gill Ediger's original lead climb to the Birthday 
Passage opened up a high beautiful area that everyone who has ever been there 
will remember forever. 
Grutas de Garcia was another trip highlite participants will long remember. 
Nico had a major role in organizing and helping this week adventure flow.
All three of these Giant Caves have large cave rooms that rank as the World's 
biggest, in the top 20.
Good Times.
Preston Forsythe, Browder, KY

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Re: [Texascavers] Fw: Precipicio

[Charles Loving]

The city of Bustamante rewarded us with a feast every year we participated
in the clean up. The leadership of the caver group met for planning
sessions at Rune Burnette's house. They included Orion, Gill, Nancy,
myself,(I was somehow designated the founder of the mission) Terry Plemons.
Peter Strickland, and a few other worthies. It was usually well planned and
a very interesting weekend. Lots or graffiti removal and step building and
one year we gated the entrance. We had the help of the Monterey Boy and
Girl Scouts and the Mexican caver groups.

We stopped doing the project when it was decalred finished. The lady mayor
of the town speechified and praised the covers. Some one hundred had shown
up. I will post my photos of the event. Lots of side trips were carried out.

On Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 9:56 PM Nico Escamilla  wrote:

> The last clean up trip happened in 2006, 13 years ago during presidents
> day weekend.
>
> If theres enough interest maybe the project may be resurrected.. I know
> that was the argument I used to get off trail a few years ago when a
> certain someone kept everyone from going outside the tour boundaries.
>
>  interested folks should start a new thread so as not to hijack this one.
>
> Nico
>
> El vie., 1 de mar. de 2019 8:14 PM, Charles Loving 
> escribió:
>
>> Correct
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 8:10 PM PRESTON FORSYTHE 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Precipicio
>>>
>>> I will jump in on this recap of a favorite old cave.
>>>
>>> Last time I was in Bustamente Canyon 6-8 years ago on Runi, Ron's and
>>> Strickland's yearly clean up trips in Palmito I ask about the status of
>>> Precipicio and it was closed, owned or run by the same organization that
>>> operates Palmito. So be interesting to read Nico's update.
>>>
>>> When I arrived in Texas the fall of 1972 Precipicio had just been
>>> "discovered." Not absolutely sure of the cavers who pioneered that hike of
>>> several hours but pretty sure included Blake, Dan Watson and, I should dig
>>> up his map-maybe John Graves. Graves turned out to be a good cartographer,
>>> equal of Neil Morris. That group, w/o Neil, had recently surveyed the upper
>>> level above the drops. I was on the second survey which did the big room.
>>> The third and last survey trip was by Hal Lloyd and me and we bottomed the
>>> cave, following a lead of Blake's. Later, the tight vertical squeeze at the
>>> beginning of that lower level extension was "enlarged."...Mary Kay was also
>>> on the big room survey.
>>>
>>> On the hike down the slopes---the slopes in places were covered with
>>> just the right size of small rocks, you could "ski"
>>> down by running jumping and launching yourself, digging in your heals at
>>> the risk of breaking something. No one was ever hurt.
>>>
>>> Apparently, the adventures rappelling from the entrance were the next
>>> decade.
>>>
>>> At that time I think Precipcio not only had one of largest rooms in the
>>> world, but was 20th deepest in Mexico.
>>>
>>> Preston Forsythe, Browder, KYmay have sent this twice?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>>> 
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>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Charlie Loving
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-- 
Charlie Loving
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Re: [Texascavers] Giant Caves of Northern Mexico

[Charles Loving]

Orion Knox spent years mapping the great. I have his detailed map. It was
done prior to the digital age. Many UT cavers spent hours mapping with him.
And I do recall the birthday passage and the wonder of seeing it.

Bustamante was my first major cave trip to Mexico. Myself, Clark Santos,
and Dennis Barret wandered around looking for the trail to the bottom of
the mountain, driving up dry creek beds and such. We finally got to the
trail and climbed the switch backs carrying a case of Carta Blanca. That
was our supplies for the trek. We met Janey Calvert and Ed Alexander, Faye
Chapman and Bill Johnson at the top and were follwed up by Geroge and
Carlyn. We went in the cave and stashed our case of beer and then never
found it again. That was the first cave trip of note.

On Sat, Mar 2, 2019 at 6:56 AM PRESTON FORSYTHE 
wrote:

> As a special pre-convention trip for the last TEXAS NSS National
> Convention, Aimee and Pete Strickland put together the above trip. The
> temperature daily hit 107, but that was a cost of a great week.
>
> We went swimming at the springs in Bustamente Canyon, below Precipcio.
> From the road I tried to locate the old trail up to Precipcio. Hard to do
> but if you walked to the right spot you could see the entrance way up
> there. What a dark hole and goal to shoot for as a caver. Hats off to Blake
> and the Hog of Steele.
>
> The first major group cave was Palmito. Orion Knox's map was and still is
> an incredible work of ART. Gill Ediger's original lead climb to the
> Birthday Passage opened up a high beautiful area that everyone who has ever
> been there will remember forever.
>
> Grutas de Garcia was another trip highlite participants will long
> remember.
>
> Nico had a major role in organizing and helping this week adventure flow.
>
> All three of these Giant Caves have large cave rooms that rank as the
> World's biggest, in the top 20.
>
> Good Times.
>
> Preston Forsythe, Browder, KY
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> 
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>


-- 
Charlie Loving
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Re: [Texascavers] Giant Caves of Northern Mexico

[mminton]

Palmito was also the first significant cave I visited in Mexico, in 
1968. Someone in our cave club (Mid-Illinois Grotto at University of 
Illinois) had a copy of the newly minted AMCS Bulletin 1, Caves of the 
Inter-American Highway. We marveled at the huge passages and deep pits 
in Mexico, and organized a trip over Christmas, even though none of us 
had ever been to Mexico and no one spoke Spanish. I even had to get a 
notarized letter from my parents allowing me to cross the border without 
them, because I was only 17. Of course I fell in love with Mexico, and 
never went home for Christmas again; it was Mexico every year 
thereafter. Now our trips are in the spring (dry season) and farther 
away (Oaxaca), but I still go to Cheve and/or Huautla every year. Talk 
about giant caves...


Mark Minton
mmin...@caver.net

On 2019-03-02 07:24, Charles Loving wrote:

Orion Knox spent years mapping the great. I have his detailed map. It
was done prior to the digital age. Many UT cavers spent hours mapping
with him. And I do recall the birthday passage and the wonder of
seeing it.

Bustamante was my first major cave trip to Mexico. Myself, Clark
Santos, and Dennis Barret wandered around looking for the trail to the
bottom of the mountain, driving up dry creek beds and such. We finally
got to the trail and climbed the switch backs carrying a case of Carta
Blanca. That was our supplies for the trek. We met Janey Calvert and
Ed Alexander, Faye Chapman and Bill Johnson at the top and were
follwed up by Geroge and Carlyn. We went in the cave and stashed our
case of beer and then never found it again. That was the first cave
trip of note.

On Sat, Mar 2, 2019 at 6:56 AM PRESTON FORSYTHE
 wrote:


As a special pre-convention trip for the last TEXAS NSS National
Convention, Aimee and Pete Strickland put together the above trip.
The temperature daily hit 107, but that was a cost of a great week.

We went swimming at the springs in Bustamente Canyon, below
Precipcio. From the road I tried to locate the old trail up to
Precipcio. Hard to do but if you walked to the right spot you could
see the entrance way up there. What a dark hole and goal to shoot
for as a caver. Hats off to Blake and the Hog of Steele.

The first major group cave was Palmito. Orion Knox's map was and
still is an incredible work of ART. Gill Ediger's original lead
climb to the Birthday Passage opened up a high beautiful area that
everyone who has ever been there will remember forever.

Grutas de Garcia was another trip highlite participants will long
remember.

Nico had a major role in organizing and helping this week adventure
flow.

All three of these Giant Caves have large cave rooms that rank as
the World's biggest, in the top 20.

Good Times.

Preston Forsythe, Browder, KY

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Re: [Texascavers] Fw: Precipicio

[Nico Escamilla]

Charlie,

It was my recolection that the project was stopped because the cave was to
be remodeled, (tunnel built, visitor center, plastic walkways, road paved,
etc) and handed over to the state's secretaría de turismo. Being in the
hands of the state means more bureaucracy but Im fairly certain it can be
pulled off if theres interest.

Nico

El sáb., 2 de mar. de 2019 7:17 AM, Charles Loving 
escribió:

> The city of Bustamante rewarded us with a feast every year we participated
> in the clean up. The leadership of the caver group met for planning
> sessions at Rune Burnette's house. They included Orion, Gill, Nancy,
> myself,(I was somehow designated the founder of the mission) Terry Plemons.
> Peter Strickland, and a few other worthies. It was usually well planned and
> a very interesting weekend. Lots or graffiti removal and step building and
> one year we gated the entrance. We had the help of the Monterey Boy and
> Girl Scouts and the Mexican caver groups.
>
> We stopped doing the project when it was decalred finished. The lady mayor
> of the town speechified and praised the covers. Some one hundred had shown
> up. I will post my photos of the event. Lots of side trips were carried out.
>
> On Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 9:56 PM Nico Escamilla 
> wrote:
>
>> The last clean up trip happened in 2006, 13 years ago during presidents
>> day weekend.
>>
>> If theres enough interest maybe the project may be resurrected.. I know
>> that was the argument I used to get off trail a few years ago when a
>> certain someone kept everyone from going outside the tour boundaries.
>>
>>  interested folks should start a new thread so as not to hijack this one.
>>
>> Nico
>>
>> El vie., 1 de mar. de 2019 8:14 PM, Charles Loving 
>> escribió:
>>
>>> Correct
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 8:10 PM PRESTON FORSYTHE 
>>> wrote:
>>>


 Precipicio

 I will jump in on this recap of a favorite old cave.

 Last time I was in Bustamente Canyon 6-8 years ago on Runi, Ron's and
 Strickland's yearly clean up trips in Palmito I ask about the status of
 Precipicio and it was closed, owned or run by the same organization that
 operates Palmito. So be interesting to read Nico's update.

 When I arrived in Texas the fall of 1972 Precipicio had just been
 "discovered." Not absolutely sure of the cavers who pioneered that hike of
 several hours but pretty sure included Blake, Dan Watson and, I should dig
 up his map-maybe John Graves. Graves turned out to be a good cartographer,
 equal of Neil Morris. That group, w/o Neil, had recently surveyed the upper
 level above the drops. I was on the second survey which did the big room.
 The third and last survey trip was by Hal Lloyd and me and we bottomed the
 cave, following a lead of Blake's. Later, the tight vertical squeeze at the
 beginning of that lower level extension was "enlarged."...Mary Kay was also
 on the big room survey.

 On the hike down the slopes---the slopes in places were covered with
 just the right size of small rocks, you could "ski"
 down by running jumping and launching yourself, digging in your heals
 at the risk of breaking something. No one was ever hurt.

 Apparently, the adventures rappelling from the entrance were the next
 decade.

 At that time I think Precipcio not only had one of largest rooms in the
 world, but was 20th deepest in Mexico.

 Preston Forsythe, Browder, KYmay have sent this twice?



 Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
 
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Charlie Loving
>>> ___
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>>>
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>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>>
>
>
> --
> Charlie Loving
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Re: [Texascavers] Fw: Precipicio

[Brian Riordan]

I recall some talk of a new entrance being tunneled at Gruta de las
palmitas at a more convenient elevation.  Some of "improvements" like this
sidnt seem to be in line with the goals of the annual clean up efforts or
vision of that team.  Or did i make that up?

- Brian

On Sat, Mar 2, 2019, 6:32 AM Nico Escamilla  wrote:

> Charlie,
>
> It was my recolection that the project was stopped because the cave was to
> be remodeled, (tunnel built, visitor center, plastic walkways, road paved,
> etc) and handed over to the state's secretaría de turismo. Being in the
> hands of the state means more bureaucracy but Im fairly certain it can be
> pulled off if theres interest.
>
> Nico
>
> El sáb., 2 de mar. de 2019 7:17 AM, Charles Loving 
> escribió:
>
>> The city of Bustamante rewarded us with a feast every year we
>> participated in the clean up. The leadership of the caver group met for
>> planning sessions at Rune Burnette's house. They included Orion, Gill,
>> Nancy, myself,(I was somehow designated the founder of the mission) Terry
>> Plemons. Peter Strickland, and a few other worthies. It was usually well
>> planned and a very interesting weekend. Lots or graffiti removal and step
>> building and one year we gated the entrance. We had the help of the
>> Monterey Boy and Girl Scouts and the Mexican caver groups.
>>
>> We stopped doing the project when it was decalred finished. The lady
>> mayor of the town speechified and praised the covers. Some one hundred had
>> shown up. I will post my photos of the event. Lots of side trips were
>> carried out.
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 9:56 PM Nico Escamilla 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The last clean up trip happened in 2006, 13 years ago during presidents
>>> day weekend.
>>>
>>> If theres enough interest maybe the project may be resurrected.. I know
>>> that was the argument I used to get off trail a few years ago when a
>>> certain someone kept everyone from going outside the tour boundaries.
>>>
>>>  interested folks should start a new thread so as not to hijack this one.
>>>
>>> Nico
>>>
>>> El vie., 1 de mar. de 2019 8:14 PM, Charles Loving 
>>> escribió:
>>>
 Correct

 On Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 8:10 PM PRESTON FORSYTHE 
 wrote:

>
>
> Precipicio
>
> I will jump in on this recap of a favorite old cave.
>
> Last time I was in Bustamente Canyon 6-8 years ago on Runi, Ron's and
> Strickland's yearly clean up trips in Palmito I ask about the status of
> Precipicio and it was closed, owned or run by the same organization that
> operates Palmito. So be interesting to read Nico's update.
>
> When I arrived in Texas the fall of 1972 Precipicio had just been
> "discovered." Not absolutely sure of the cavers who pioneered that hike of
> several hours but pretty sure included Blake, Dan Watson and, I should dig
> up his map-maybe John Graves. Graves turned out to be a good cartographer,
> equal of Neil Morris. That group, w/o Neil, had recently surveyed the 
> upper
> level above the drops. I was on the second survey which did the big room.
> The third and last survey trip was by Hal Lloyd and me and we bottomed the
> cave, following a lead of Blake's. Later, the tight vertical squeeze at 
> the
> beginning of that lower level extension was "enlarged."...Mary Kay was 
> also
> on the big room survey.
>
> On the hike down the slopes---the slopes in places were covered with
> just the right size of small rocks, you could "ski"
> down by running jumping and launching yourself, digging in your heals
> at the risk of breaking something. No one was ever hurt.
>
> Apparently, the adventures rappelling from the entrance were the next
> decade.
>
> At that time I think Precipcio not only had one of largest rooms in
> the world, but was 20th deepest in Mexico.
>
> Preston Forsythe, Browder, KYmay have sent this twice?
>
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> 
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> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
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>


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Re: [Texascavers] Bustamante

[Nico Escamilla]

Is that Giovani whatshisface from the boy scouts giving first aid?

El sáb., 2 de mar. de 2019 3:42 PM, Charles Loving 
escribió:

>
>
> --
> Charlie Loving
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Re: [Texascavers] Bustamante

[Charles Loving]

The Italian Boy Scout... si it is him.

On Sat, Mar 2, 2019 at 3:49 PM Nico Escamilla  wrote:

> Is that Giovani whatshisface from the boy scouts giving first aid?
>
> El sáb., 2 de mar. de 2019 3:42 PM, Charles Loving 
> escribió:
>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Charlie Loving
>> ___
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>>
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-- 
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Re: [Texascavers] Bustamante

[Nico Escamilla]

Met him a couple times in minas viejas, he used to try to pull peoples
hands off their socket when shaking hands.

El sáb., 2 de mar. de 2019 4:17 PM, Charles Loving 
escribió:

> The Italian Boy Scout... si it is him.
>
> On Sat, Mar 2, 2019 at 3:49 PM Nico Escamilla 
> wrote:
>
>> Is that Giovani whatshisface from the boy scouts giving first aid?
>>
>> El sáb., 2 de mar. de 2019 3:42 PM, Charles Loving 
>> escribió:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Charlie Loving
>>> ___
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>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
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>>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> Charlie Loving
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[Texascavers] related to French archeology

[David]

Here is a new video - a lecture by a French archeologist talking about a
cave in southwest France.

I do not speak any French ( except "stalagmite," pronounced stuh-lahg-meet
), but looking at some of the
photos, he appears to be talking about Neanderthals artifacts that have
been found
across Europe and how they compare to the one in a cave he is interested in
called
"Grotto de Bruniquel."

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcyPmCqupi0

Maybe someone could get Dr. Jaubert, to provide the slideshow in a format
where it can
be viewed by interested people, such as cavers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Jaubert

D.L.



P.S.   While I have your attention, ( for you soap-opera/drama lovers, if
there is such a thing )

I was never able to make any progress confirming if an offspring
of an old caving friend was safe. An acquaintance of a caver friend (
the last person I know to see the person of
concern in early December ), was hoping to hear from them by now,
concerning the purchase of one of the cherished
items that they had inherited. I got a message from their previous
landlord suggesting subtly they had to dispose of this
item, that it had been abandoned for too long. Yesterday, the person
that I suspect is the only player in this drama,
jokingly posted on their Facebook page publicly that they plan to make the
6 o'clock news.I deeply regret giving
that guy my name, but at the time, February 8th, it appeared according to
his post they had got engaged ( according
to him only ). He now has
totally removed any sign of her from his Facebook page, that used to be
obsessionally devoted to her.The only other
rumor that I have heard, is the person of concern might be vagabonding in
Oklahoma. I sent the person of concern another
Facebook message, pleading with them to send me an emoji.  They used to
respond to me within days, back a few years
ago, even though we never really knew one another.   In the event that
they are traveling like a gypsy, under an alias name, it
would be pointless to report them missing.I still do not see any way or
manner for myself, to help this person.   It will be a
huge relief to learn they are safe, even if they are p*ssed off at me for
prying into their dirty laundry.
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