Re: [Texascavers] Ezells Cave Preserve
Preston, Gate project on for Fossil Cave in Pulaski County, KY. The cave is owned by Art White and Kristen Bobo is the project leader. Work is scheduled on April the 10, 11, and @12th. Bill On 04/01/2015 03:43 PM, PRESTON FORSYTHE via Texascavers wrote: Great looking strong well built modern bat friendly cave gate. Well done. Wish we could have been there to help. Preston Forsythe in Western KY Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android *From*:Ron Ralph via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com *Date*:Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 11:35 AM *Subject*:[Texascavers] Ezells Cave Preserve The University Star is running a story on the front page of todays paper covering the new gate. You may see the electronic version of the article here , http://star.txstate.edu/, if you wish. The TCMA thanks all the sponsors and volunteers who made this project possible. Ron Ralph, Manager, Ezells Cave Preserve ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Sinkhole in KY claims Corvettes
Julie, Phil, Geary and all, As for Kentucky: In the past highway engineers didn't seem to care. Today the Kentucky Speleological Survey is getting weekly requests for karst information from construction companies, consulting companies and from the state. Bill Walden On 2/13/2014 1:35 PM, Julie Jenkins wrote: Duh, you'd think! On Feb 13, 2014, at 12:14 PM, Phil Winkler pw...@dca.net mailto:pw...@dca.net wrote: I was surprised to see it is located directly alongside the I-65 interstate hwy. One would think the highway engineers would have known of the presence of cave system there. You can see it easily on Google-Earth. On Feb 13, 2014, at 1:07 PM, Geary Schindel wrote: When I lived up that way, you could get a specific rider on your policy for sinkholes and geotechnical foundation issues. When I was in graduate school, I lived in a trailer about a mile from the museum and maybe a mile from the corvette plant. There were large sinkholes right in the trailer park. It would be interesting to see if their policy covers the building and/or the cars. Geary *From:*Julia Germany [mailto:germa...@aol.com] *Sent:*Thursday, February 13, 2014 11:51 AM *To:*jck...@gmail.com mailto:jck...@gmail.com;texascavers@texascavers.com mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com *Subject:*Re: [Texascavers] Sinkhole in KY claims Corvettes Thanks! I read this yesterday, and was surprised to learn that property (offices, homes), including vehicles, are NOT covered by insurance if damaged by a sinkhole. There is an exclusion specifically for sinkholes. Granted, I live on the Gulf Coast, and the only sinkholes are on streets from underground leaking pipes. I got the impression from the article that this exclusion is national, not just in cave areas. julia -Original Message- From: John Kerr jck...@gmail.com mailto:jck...@gmail.com To: texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Thu, Feb 13, 2014 11:32 am Subject: [Texascavers] Sinkhole in KY claims Corvettes FWIW. _http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2014/02/12/moment-sinkhole-opens-under-corvette-museum-caught-on-camera/_ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com http://www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4335 / Virus Database: 3697/7089 - Release Date: 02/13/14
Re: [Texascavers] off topic - retirement
Logan, Congratulations on your retirement! I predict that within a year or perhaps two that you will be involved in volunteer work and projects to the extent that you will wonder how you ever found the time to have a real job! Enjoy your retirement. Bill Walden On 08/17/2012 01:56 PM, Logan McNatt wrote: I retired from Texas Parks and Wildlife Department on August 15th, after 18+ years of working there (1972-1976 part-time; 1996-2012). If you have my TPWD work email address and phone #, please be sure to delete them from your address book/contacts. They don't work anymore (like me, for now). I've sent evites to some of you for my retirement party, but know that I've missed a lot of you who will want to come. It will be a mix of cavers, archeologists, TPWD folks, and other friends. So here's the info: Saturday August 25th, 2012 5:30 to 11:30 p.m. Zilker Clubhouse west of Zilker Park and Loop 1/Mopac, off Rollingwood Drive http://www.mapquest.com/maps?address=200%20Zilker%20Clubhouse%20Rdcity=Austinstate=TXzipcode=78746 beer, music, fire-dancer, champion kite flyer provided potluck Here's how my new life of retirement is going so far. _Day 1_: Calendar says SLEEP LATE, DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. 5:30 a.m. woke up 6:00 a.m. to 12:00 midnight on computer and phone answering messages most of day; wash dishes; feeble attempts to clean house; put tarp on roof to last until roofers come on Aug 28th; _Day 2_ Calendar says SLEEP LATE, DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING 9:00 a.m. woke up, making rapid progress in adjusting to new lifestyle Onward Through the Fog, LowGun 4419 Clawson Rd Austin, TX 78745-1039 512-462-9581
Re: [Texascavers] off topic - retirement
Logan, Congratulations on your retirement! I predict that within a year or perhaps two that you will be involved in volunteer work and projects to the extent that you will wonder how you ever found the time to have a real job! Enjoy your retirement. Bill Walden On 08/17/2012 01:56 PM, Logan McNatt wrote: I retired from Texas Parks and Wildlife Department on August 15th, after 18+ years of working there (1972-1976 part-time; 1996-2012). If you have my TPWD work email address and phone #, please be sure to delete them from your address book/contacts. They don't work anymore (like me, for now). I've sent evites to some of you for my retirement party, but know that I've missed a lot of you who will want to come. It will be a mix of cavers, archeologists, TPWD folks, and other friends. So here's the info: Saturday August 25th, 2012 5:30 to 11:30 p.m. Zilker Clubhouse west of Zilker Park and Loop 1/Mopac, off Rollingwood Drive http://www.mapquest.com/maps?address=200%20Zilker%20Clubhouse%20Rdcity=Austinstate=TXzipcode=78746 beer, music, fire-dancer, champion kite flyer provided potluck Here's how my new life of retirement is going so far. _Day 1_: Calendar says SLEEP LATE, DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. 5:30 a.m. woke up 6:00 a.m. to 12:00 midnight on computer and phone answering messages most of day; wash dishes; feeble attempts to clean house; put tarp on roof to last until roofers come on Aug 28th; _Day 2_ Calendar says SLEEP LATE, DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING 9:00 a.m. woke up, making rapid progress in adjusting to new lifestyle Onward Through the Fog, LowGun 4419 Clawson Rd Austin, TX 78745-1039 512-462-9581
Re: [Texascavers] off topic - retirement
Logan, Congratulations on your retirement! I predict that within a year or perhaps two that you will be involved in volunteer work and projects to the extent that you will wonder how you ever found the time to have a real job! Enjoy your retirement. Bill Walden On 08/17/2012 01:56 PM, Logan McNatt wrote: I retired from Texas Parks and Wildlife Department on August 15th, after 18+ years of working there (1972-1976 part-time; 1996-2012). If you have my TPWD work email address and phone #, please be sure to delete them from your address book/contacts. They don't work anymore (like me, for now). I've sent evites to some of you for my retirement party, but know that I've missed a lot of you who will want to come. It will be a mix of cavers, archeologists, TPWD folks, and other friends. So here's the info: Saturday August 25th, 2012 5:30 to 11:30 p.m. Zilker Clubhouse west of Zilker Park and Loop 1/Mopac, off Rollingwood Drive http://www.mapquest.com/maps?address=200%20Zilker%20Clubhouse%20Rdcity=Austinstate=TXzipcode=78746 beer, music, fire-dancer, champion kite flyer provided potluck Here's how my new life of retirement is going so far. _Day 1_: Calendar says SLEEP LATE, DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. 5:30 a.m. woke up 6:00 a.m. to 12:00 midnight on computer and phone answering messages most of day; wash dishes; feeble attempts to clean house; put tarp on roof to last until roofers come on Aug 28th; _Day 2_ Calendar says SLEEP LATE, DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING 9:00 a.m. woke up, making rapid progress in adjusting to new lifestyle Onward Through the Fog, LowGun 4419 Clawson Rd Austin, TX 78745-1039 512-462-9581
Re: [Texascavers] Rechargeable Batteries
I have been using the same set of Energizer 2700 mAHh rechargeable batteries for at least 4 years for multiple caving trips per month in my Apex headlamps (at least 4 headlamps over the 4 years - the batteries have outlasted 3 Apex headlamps). I always charge these batteries the night before a trip because the charge will decay over time. Over the years the capacity has decreased from enough to last an 8 to 12 hour cave trip to about 6 hours. My suggestions: Don't consider buying rechargeable batteries at Wal-Mart - most of the packages of batteries they sell are not labeled with the capacity and if the package is labeled it is typically a low rating (less than 2000 mAh). The Sanyo batteries recommended by Marvin sound good. These batteries represent a new generation of nickle metal hydride batteries that hold their charge much better than my old Energizers. Don't buy nicad batteries as they have a memory effect. Carefully check the milliampere hour rating of the batteries. As mentioned most rechargeable batteries sold by Wal-Mart are not labelled or the capacity label is covered by the packaging. I will not purchase rechargeable batteries with a rating of less than 2500 mAh. The most recent batch of AA batteries I purchased are rated at 2900 mAh. Best to use a slow charger rather than a fast charger. The battery charger I use is a smart charger - that is it senses the charge on each cell. Once a cell is fully charged, the charger switches to a trickle charge rate (enough to maintain the battery at full charge). My charger works off a 120 volt wall outlet or a 12 volt automobile outlet. Charge batteries day before a cave trip to maximum duration. I use the nickel metal hydride AA batteries for my photo equipment: 3 floodlights each requiring 6 AA batteries, 4 strobe lights each requiring 4 AA batteries, and 3 high intensity LED flashlights each requiring 2 AA batteries (With the reflector removed these flashlights are great for macro photography!). Don't waste your money buying alkaline batteries. Best regards, Bill Walden On 8/7/2012 11:11 PM, Marvin and Lisa wrote: I have heard some good things about Sanyo's Eneloops. They are supposed to hold their charge for a long time and Sanyo claims they can be recharged 1500 times. I've started using them but haven't had enough experience to definitely qualify them. Whatever you do, don't waste money on Energizer or Duracell rechargeables. Marvin *From:* James Jasek [mailto:caver...@hot.rr.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, August 07, 2012 7:30 PM *To:* TexasCavers *Subject:* [Texascavers] Rechargeable Batteries I am interested in making the change to rechargeable AA and AAA Batteries for my cave light and for electronic strobe. Anyone got any opinions on how they compare to the Alkaline Batteries. Do the new rechargeables have the memory problems of the past? Do they last as long and preform as well, and what brand is the best. Thanks, James Jasek
Re: [Texascavers] Rechargeable Batteries
I have been using the same set of Energizer 2700 mAHh rechargeable batteries for at least 4 years for multiple caving trips per month in my Apex headlamps (at least 4 headlamps over the 4 years - the batteries have outlasted 3 Apex headlamps). I always charge these batteries the night before a trip because the charge will decay over time. Over the years the capacity has decreased from enough to last an 8 to 12 hour cave trip to about 6 hours. My suggestions: Don't consider buying rechargeable batteries at Wal-Mart - most of the packages of batteries they sell are not labeled with the capacity and if the package is labeled it is typically a low rating (less than 2000 mAh). The Sanyo batteries recommended by Marvin sound good. These batteries represent a new generation of nickle metal hydride batteries that hold their charge much better than my old Energizers. Don't buy nicad batteries as they have a memory effect. Carefully check the milliampere hour rating of the batteries. As mentioned most rechargeable batteries sold by Wal-Mart are not labelled or the capacity label is covered by the packaging. I will not purchase rechargeable batteries with a rating of less than 2500 mAh. The most recent batch of AA batteries I purchased are rated at 2900 mAh. Best to use a slow charger rather than a fast charger. The battery charger I use is a smart charger - that is it senses the charge on each cell. Once a cell is fully charged, the charger switches to a trickle charge rate (enough to maintain the battery at full charge). My charger works off a 120 volt wall outlet or a 12 volt automobile outlet. Charge batteries day before a cave trip to maximum duration. I use the nickel metal hydride AA batteries for my photo equipment: 3 floodlights each requiring 6 AA batteries, 4 strobe lights each requiring 4 AA batteries, and 3 high intensity LED flashlights each requiring 2 AA batteries (With the reflector removed these flashlights are great for macro photography!). Don't waste your money buying alkaline batteries. Best regards, Bill Walden On 8/7/2012 11:11 PM, Marvin and Lisa wrote: I have heard some good things about Sanyo's Eneloops. They are supposed to hold their charge for a long time and Sanyo claims they can be recharged 1500 times. I've started using them but haven't had enough experience to definitely qualify them. Whatever you do, don't waste money on Energizer or Duracell rechargeables. Marvin *From:* James Jasek [mailto:caver...@hot.rr.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, August 07, 2012 7:30 PM *To:* TexasCavers *Subject:* [Texascavers] Rechargeable Batteries I am interested in making the change to rechargeable AA and AAA Batteries for my cave light and for electronic strobe. Anyone got any opinions on how they compare to the Alkaline Batteries. Do the new rechargeables have the memory problems of the past? Do they last as long and preform as well, and what brand is the best. Thanks, James Jasek
Re: [Texascavers] Rechargeable Batteries
Geary, A good starting place to purchase NiMH batteries is Amazon.com. They carry the Sanyo Eneloops that Marvin mentioned but they are only rated at 2000 mAh. I've had good luck with GP, Kodak, and Energizer all rated at 2500 mAh or more. The GP and Kodak batteries hold their charge longer than the Energizers but since I always recharge before a cave trip That doesn't bother me. A couple GP batteries (out of 12) and an Energizer (out of six) have gone bad over the years but that won't stop me from purchasing more. I purchased a dozen Power2000 2950 mAh batteries for my flood lights. Even though reviews are poor, they work well in that application. These are less than a month old so not too much experience with them yet. BTW the property I told you about that contains Coal Trace Cave and Barefoot Saltpeter Pit has now paid for itself. The owner has recouped the purchase price from timber sales from the land. Neither the original owner nor I thought there was enough mature timber to harvest. We were wrong! Best regards, Bill Walden On 8/8/2012 8:58 AM, Geary Schindel wrote: Bill, Have any suggestions on where to buy these on line. Considering the number of batteries I've run through, time to reinvest in rechargeable. Geary *From:*Bill Walden [mailto:wdwal...@windstream.net] *Sent:* Wednesday, August 08, 2012 11:43 AM *To:* Marvin and Lisa; texascavers@texascavers.com *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Rechargeable Batteries I have been using the same set of Energizer 2700 mAHh rechargeable batteries for at least 4 years for multiple caving trips per month in my Apex headlamps (at least 4 headlamps over the 4 years - the batteries have outlasted 3 Apex headlamps). I always charge these batteries the night before a trip because the charge will decay over time. Over the years the capacity has decreased from enough to last an 8 to 12 hour cave trip to about 6 hours. My suggestions: Don't consider buying rechargeable batteries at Wal-Mart - most of the packages of batteries they sell are not labeled with the capacity and if the package is labeled it is typically a low rating (less than 2000 mAh). The Sanyo batteries recommended by Marvin sound good. These batteries represent a new generation of nickle metal hydride batteries that hold their charge much better than my old Energizers. Don't buy nicad batteries as they have a memory effect. Carefully check the milliampere hour rating of the batteries. As mentioned most rechargeable batteries sold by Wal-Mart are not labelled or the capacity label is covered by the packaging. I will not purchase rechargeable batteries with a rating of less than 2500 mAh. The most recent batch of AA batteries I purchased are rated at 2900 mAh. Best to use a slow charger rather than a fast charger. The battery charger I use is a smart charger - that is it senses the charge on each cell. Once a cell is fully charged, the charger switches to a trickle charge rate (enough to maintain the battery at full charge). My charger works off a 120 volt wall outlet or a 12 volt automobile outlet. Charge batteries day before a cave trip to maximum duration. I use the nickel metal hydride AA batteries for my photo equipment: 3 floodlights each requiring 6 AA batteries, 4 strobe lights each requiring 4 AA batteries, and 3 high intensity LED flashlights each requiring 2 AA batteries (With the reflector removed these flashlights are great for macro photography!). Don't waste your money buying alkaline batteries. Best regards, Bill Walden On 8/7/2012 11:11 PM, Marvin and Lisa wrote: I have heard some good things about Sanyo's Eneloops. They are supposed to hold their charge for a long time and Sanyo claims they can be recharged 1500 times. I've started using them but haven't had enough experience to definitely qualify them. Whatever you do, don't waste money on Energizer or Duracell rechargeables. Marvin *From:*James Jasek [mailto:caver...@hot.rr.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, August 07, 2012 7:30 PM *To:* TexasCavers *Subject:* [Texascavers] Rechargeable Batteries I am interested in making the change to rechargeable AA and AAA Batteries for my cave light and for electronic strobe. Anyone got any opinions on how they compare to the Alkaline Batteries. Do the new rechargeables have the memory problems of the past? Do they last as long and preform as well, and what brand is the best. Thanks, James Jasek
Re: [Texascavers] Rechargeable Batteries
I have been using the same set of Energizer 2700 mAHh rechargeable batteries for at least 4 years for multiple caving trips per month in my Apex headlamps (at least 4 headlamps over the 4 years - the batteries have outlasted 3 Apex headlamps). I always charge these batteries the night before a trip because the charge will decay over time. Over the years the capacity has decreased from enough to last an 8 to 12 hour cave trip to about 6 hours. My suggestions: Don't consider buying rechargeable batteries at Wal-Mart - most of the packages of batteries they sell are not labeled with the capacity and if the package is labeled it is typically a low rating (less than 2000 mAh). The Sanyo batteries recommended by Marvin sound good. These batteries represent a new generation of nickle metal hydride batteries that hold their charge much better than my old Energizers. Don't buy nicad batteries as they have a memory effect. Carefully check the milliampere hour rating of the batteries. As mentioned most rechargeable batteries sold by Wal-Mart are not labelled or the capacity label is covered by the packaging. I will not purchase rechargeable batteries with a rating of less than 2500 mAh. The most recent batch of AA batteries I purchased are rated at 2900 mAh. Best to use a slow charger rather than a fast charger. The battery charger I use is a smart charger - that is it senses the charge on each cell. Once a cell is fully charged, the charger switches to a trickle charge rate (enough to maintain the battery at full charge). My charger works off a 120 volt wall outlet or a 12 volt automobile outlet. Charge batteries day before a cave trip to maximum duration. I use the nickel metal hydride AA batteries for my photo equipment: 3 floodlights each requiring 6 AA batteries, 4 strobe lights each requiring 4 AA batteries, and 3 high intensity LED flashlights each requiring 2 AA batteries (With the reflector removed these flashlights are great for macro photography!). Don't waste your money buying alkaline batteries. Best regards, Bill Walden On 8/7/2012 11:11 PM, Marvin and Lisa wrote: I have heard some good things about Sanyo's Eneloops. They are supposed to hold their charge for a long time and Sanyo claims they can be recharged 1500 times. I've started using them but haven't had enough experience to definitely qualify them. Whatever you do, don't waste money on Energizer or Duracell rechargeables. Marvin *From:* James Jasek [mailto:caver...@hot.rr.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, August 07, 2012 7:30 PM *To:* TexasCavers *Subject:* [Texascavers] Rechargeable Batteries I am interested in making the change to rechargeable AA and AAA Batteries for my cave light and for electronic strobe. Anyone got any opinions on how they compare to the Alkaline Batteries. Do the new rechargeables have the memory problems of the past? Do they last as long and preform as well, and what brand is the best. Thanks, James Jasek
Re: [Texascavers] Rechargeable Batteries
Geary, A good starting place to purchase NiMH batteries is Amazon.com. They carry the Sanyo Eneloops that Marvin mentioned but they are only rated at 2000 mAh. I've had good luck with GP, Kodak, and Energizer all rated at 2500 mAh or more. The GP and Kodak batteries hold their charge longer than the Energizers but since I always recharge before a cave trip That doesn't bother me. A couple GP batteries (out of 12) and an Energizer (out of six) have gone bad over the years but that won't stop me from purchasing more. I purchased a dozen Power2000 2950 mAh batteries for my flood lights. Even though reviews are poor, they work well in that application. These are less than a month old so not too much experience with them yet. BTW the property I told you about that contains Coal Trace Cave and Barefoot Saltpeter Pit has now paid for itself. The owner has recouped the purchase price from timber sales from the land. Neither the original owner nor I thought there was enough mature timber to harvest. We were wrong! Best regards, Bill Walden On 8/8/2012 8:58 AM, Geary Schindel wrote: Bill, Have any suggestions on where to buy these on line. Considering the number of batteries I've run through, time to reinvest in rechargeable. Geary *From:*Bill Walden [mailto:wdwal...@windstream.net] *Sent:* Wednesday, August 08, 2012 11:43 AM *To:* Marvin and Lisa; texascavers@texascavers.com *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Rechargeable Batteries I have been using the same set of Energizer 2700 mAHh rechargeable batteries for at least 4 years for multiple caving trips per month in my Apex headlamps (at least 4 headlamps over the 4 years - the batteries have outlasted 3 Apex headlamps). I always charge these batteries the night before a trip because the charge will decay over time. Over the years the capacity has decreased from enough to last an 8 to 12 hour cave trip to about 6 hours. My suggestions: Don't consider buying rechargeable batteries at Wal-Mart - most of the packages of batteries they sell are not labeled with the capacity and if the package is labeled it is typically a low rating (less than 2000 mAh). The Sanyo batteries recommended by Marvin sound good. These batteries represent a new generation of nickle metal hydride batteries that hold their charge much better than my old Energizers. Don't buy nicad batteries as they have a memory effect. Carefully check the milliampere hour rating of the batteries. As mentioned most rechargeable batteries sold by Wal-Mart are not labelled or the capacity label is covered by the packaging. I will not purchase rechargeable batteries with a rating of less than 2500 mAh. The most recent batch of AA batteries I purchased are rated at 2900 mAh. Best to use a slow charger rather than a fast charger. The battery charger I use is a smart charger - that is it senses the charge on each cell. Once a cell is fully charged, the charger switches to a trickle charge rate (enough to maintain the battery at full charge). My charger works off a 120 volt wall outlet or a 12 volt automobile outlet. Charge batteries day before a cave trip to maximum duration. I use the nickel metal hydride AA batteries for my photo equipment: 3 floodlights each requiring 6 AA batteries, 4 strobe lights each requiring 4 AA batteries, and 3 high intensity LED flashlights each requiring 2 AA batteries (With the reflector removed these flashlights are great for macro photography!). Don't waste your money buying alkaline batteries. Best regards, Bill Walden On 8/7/2012 11:11 PM, Marvin and Lisa wrote: I have heard some good things about Sanyo's Eneloops. They are supposed to hold their charge for a long time and Sanyo claims they can be recharged 1500 times. I've started using them but haven't had enough experience to definitely qualify them. Whatever you do, don't waste money on Energizer or Duracell rechargeables. Marvin *From:*James Jasek [mailto:caver...@hot.rr.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, August 07, 2012 7:30 PM *To:* TexasCavers *Subject:* [Texascavers] Rechargeable Batteries I am interested in making the change to rechargeable AA and AAA Batteries for my cave light and for electronic strobe. Anyone got any opinions on how they compare to the Alkaline Batteries. Do the new rechargeables have the memory problems of the past? Do they last as long and preform as well, and what brand is the best. Thanks, James Jasek
Re: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center
Rafal, To much carbon dioxide will kill. A friend and I were surveying a cave that floods drastically years ago. As we surveyed I began to develop a headache and to feel nauseous. Finally my carbide light began to misbehave, so for some reason, I climbed up higher to change carbide. The lamp flame steadied some. I looked down at my survey partner I noticed that he was just fumbling with his lamp. At this point I realized what was wrong - high carbon dioxide content. I yelled at him to climb up to my level. He did. After he changed carbide, we left. Once out of the cave the headache and nausea went away. I never did complete the survey and never did go back to that cave. The CO_2 was probably from the huge piles of rotting leaves throughout the cave. CO_2 levels: OSHA safe level - 0.5% Max. short term exposure limit (OSHA) - 1.5% Start to get a headache - 2% Breathing twice normal rate - 3% Bill Walden NSS 11573 On 07/27/2012 10:32 PM, rafal kedzierski wrote: Carbon dioxide? It's not that bad for you, it's in carbonated drinks, air we exhale, it's even occasionally found in caves. In fact as long as you electron transport chain gives electrons to acceptor like oxygen as you make carbon dioxide, you can kick it and call yourself alive. Rafal Kedzierski Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 21:24:03 -0500 From: skese...@gmail.com To: power_lou...@hotmail.com CC: nmca...@comcast.net; gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org; bmixon...@austin.rr.com; texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center I don't know what happened CC but I've worked construction all my adult life ,I couldn't count the times our work envirment became compromised because of toxic fumes, just like high co2 levels you're no wimp for haulin A out of there and even getting checked out.My pop was chem engineer for Dow , he told me in his latter years that stuff is bad for you. On Wednesday, July 25, 2012, Louise Power wrote: My personal experience has been that folks who don't work in industry or in a government agency which has a hazmat specialist on board have never heard of an MSDS. Wouldn't know what it meant if they had one. At BLM, we're required to take hazmat training once/year. It's especially critical here in Oregon and other states where meth labs and dumps are so prominent on public lands. :-( Louise There is an almost sure prevention for this form of stupidity. It is called the M.S.D.S., the Material Safety Data Sheet. I is supposed to be read BEFORE you open the container or apply the stuff! E ^v^ *From:* Louise Power *Sent:* Wednesday, July 25, 2012 11:24 AM *To:* Geary Schindel ; Bill Mixon ; Texas Cavers *Subject:* RE: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center Wait!!! You mean I sent them all my canaries for nothing?! After all, Gary, it's really not a mine anymore. From: gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org To: bmixon...@austin.rr.com; texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 10:20:57 -0500 Subject: RE: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center Folks, I agree with Bill, when using solvent based paints (or for that matter, any hazards material) in a confined space, it is much quicker, easier and cheaper to use humans to determine if you've exceeded any health related chemical thresholds verses real time air monitoring or canaries. Most of the time, most folks become violently ill before they actually die. While this is not the recommended method by the American Council of Governmental Industrial Hygienists, it seems to be the technique most often used by industry. When employees get sick, it is probably time to give them at least a 15 minute break. You don't have to worry about long term exposures such as an increased risk of lung or blood cancers as those folks probably won't be working for you in 20 years anyway so not your problem. Matter of fact, with substances such as asbestos or silica dust, by allowing humans in a contaminated work area without respirators, they actually help clean the air as the lungs retain some of the asbestos fibers or silica (good for the room, bad for the lungs). If you would like to see an excellent presentation on silicoses and the Hawks Nest Tunnel in West Virginia and the largest industrial accident in US History, you may want to visit Helen Lang's web page http://www.geo.wvu.edu/~lang/Geol484/HN-shorter.pdf http://www.geo.wvu.edu/%7Elang/Geol484/HN-shorter.pdf I'm sure that the contractor read and followed all of the warning labels and safety precautions for use of the product and that it was really safe for use in a confined environment and that the manufacturers warning about using the product only in well ventilated areas was just
Re: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center
Rafal, To much carbon dioxide will kill. A friend and I were surveying a cave that floods drastically years ago. As we surveyed I began to develop a headache and to feel nauseous. Finally my carbide light began to misbehave, so for some reason, I climbed up higher to change carbide. The lamp flame steadied some. I looked down at my survey partner I noticed that he was just fumbling with his lamp. At this point I realized what was wrong - high carbon dioxide content. I yelled at him to climb up to my level. He did. After he changed carbide, we left. Once out of the cave the headache and nausea went away. I never did complete the survey and never did go back to that cave. The CO_2 was probably from the huge piles of rotting leaves throughout the cave. CO_2 levels: OSHA safe level - 0.5% Max. short term exposure limit (OSHA) - 1.5% Start to get a headache - 2% Breathing twice normal rate - 3% Bill Walden NSS 11573 On 07/27/2012 10:32 PM, rafal kedzierski wrote: Carbon dioxide? It's not that bad for you, it's in carbonated drinks, air we exhale, it's even occasionally found in caves. In fact as long as you electron transport chain gives electrons to acceptor like oxygen as you make carbon dioxide, you can kick it and call yourself alive. Rafal Kedzierski Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 21:24:03 -0500 From: skese...@gmail.com To: power_lou...@hotmail.com CC: nmca...@comcast.net; gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org; bmixon...@austin.rr.com; texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center I don't know what happened CC but I've worked construction all my adult life ,I couldn't count the times our work envirment became compromised because of toxic fumes, just like high co2 levels you're no wimp for haulin A out of there and even getting checked out.My pop was chem engineer for Dow , he told me in his latter years that stuff is bad for you. On Wednesday, July 25, 2012, Louise Power wrote: My personal experience has been that folks who don't work in industry or in a government agency which has a hazmat specialist on board have never heard of an MSDS. Wouldn't know what it meant if they had one. At BLM, we're required to take hazmat training once/year. It's especially critical here in Oregon and other states where meth labs and dumps are so prominent on public lands. :-( Louise There is an almost sure prevention for this form of stupidity. It is called the M.S.D.S., the Material Safety Data Sheet. I is supposed to be read BEFORE you open the container or apply the stuff! E ^v^ *From:* Louise Power *Sent:* Wednesday, July 25, 2012 11:24 AM *To:* Geary Schindel ; Bill Mixon ; Texas Cavers *Subject:* RE: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center Wait!!! You mean I sent them all my canaries for nothing?! After all, Gary, it's really not a mine anymore. From: gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org To: bmixon...@austin.rr.com; texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 10:20:57 -0500 Subject: RE: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center Folks, I agree with Bill, when using solvent based paints (or for that matter, any hazards material) in a confined space, it is much quicker, easier and cheaper to use humans to determine if you've exceeded any health related chemical thresholds verses real time air monitoring or canaries. Most of the time, most folks become violently ill before they actually die. While this is not the recommended method by the American Council of Governmental Industrial Hygienists, it seems to be the technique most often used by industry. When employees get sick, it is probably time to give them at least a 15 minute break. You don't have to worry about long term exposures such as an increased risk of lung or blood cancers as those folks probably won't be working for you in 20 years anyway so not your problem. Matter of fact, with substances such as asbestos or silica dust, by allowing humans in a contaminated work area without respirators, they actually help clean the air as the lungs retain some of the asbestos fibers or silica (good for the room, bad for the lungs). If you would like to see an excellent presentation on silicoses and the Hawks Nest Tunnel in West Virginia and the largest industrial accident in US History, you may want to visit Helen Lang's web page http://www.geo.wvu.edu/~lang/Geol484/HN-shorter.pdf http://www.geo.wvu.edu/%7Elang/Geol484/HN-shorter.pdf I'm sure that the contractor read and followed all of the warning labels and safety precautions for use of the product and that it was really safe for use in a confined environment and that the manufacturers warning about using the product only in well ventilated areas was just
Re: [Texascavers] Caving Wire Ladders?
I used a cable ladder this afternoon to install a new light inside the pit under the basement of the Wayne County, KY Museum. The pit was once connected to the cave system beneath the city from which the then hotel drew cave air into the building. That didn't last very long. In 1938 the hotel installed real air conditioning. Today that hotel building is the Wayne County Museum. I have a cave exhibit in that basement room with photos of Wayne County cave and an exhibit of caving equipment used in Wayne county from the 1950s through the present. The pit, which has a rail around it, is always the biggest hit. Best to all, Bill Walden Wayne County, KY On 5/1/2012 12:44 PM, Mark Minton wrote: I disagree that ladders are the best way to do even short drops, except in cases where there may be a single short pitch quite remote in a cave. For one thing, to use one safely you should have a belay rope, so why not just climb it instead of also carrying a ladder? IMO also sells cable ladders, but they're very expensive ($150 for 10 m). Why not buy rope instead? Mark At 11:39 AM 5/1/2012, Stefan Creaser wrote: Nah, they're the best thing for pitches upto 30ft! You can get them in the UK Lyndon, btw. Cheers, Stefan From: Ron R [mailto:rcrutherf...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 10:27 AM To: Lyndon Tiu Cc: Cavers Texas Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Caving Wire Ladders? They have been (or should be) outlawed internationally as a cruel and unusually punishing ascending device. On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Lyndon Tiu l...@alumni.sfu.ca wrote: Can someone recommend where I can get caving wire ladders? Thanks. -- Lyndon Tiu Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Caving Wire Ladders?
I used a cable ladder this afternoon to install a new light inside the pit under the basement of the Wayne County, KY Museum. The pit was once connected to the cave system beneath the city from which the then hotel drew cave air into the building. That didn't last very long. In 1938 the hotel installed real air conditioning. Today that hotel building is the Wayne County Museum. I have a cave exhibit in that basement room with photos of Wayne County cave and an exhibit of caving equipment used in Wayne county from the 1950s through the present. The pit, which has a rail around it, is always the biggest hit. Best to all, Bill Walden Wayne County, KY On 5/1/2012 12:44 PM, Mark Minton wrote: I disagree that ladders are the best way to do even short drops, except in cases where there may be a single short pitch quite remote in a cave. For one thing, to use one safely you should have a belay rope, so why not just climb it instead of also carrying a ladder? IMO also sells cable ladders, but they're very expensive ($150 for 10 m). Why not buy rope instead? Mark At 11:39 AM 5/1/2012, Stefan Creaser wrote: Nah, they're the best thing for pitches upto 30ft! You can get them in the UK Lyndon, btw. Cheers, Stefan From: Ron R [mailto:rcrutherf...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 10:27 AM To: Lyndon Tiu Cc: Cavers Texas Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Caving Wire Ladders? They have been (or should be) outlawed internationally as a cruel and unusually punishing ascending device. On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Lyndon Tiu l...@alumni.sfu.ca wrote: Can someone recommend where I can get caving wire ladders? Thanks. -- Lyndon Tiu Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Caving Wire Ladders?
I used a cable ladder this afternoon to install a new light inside the pit under the basement of the Wayne County, KY Museum. The pit was once connected to the cave system beneath the city from which the then hotel drew cave air into the building. That didn't last very long. In 1938 the hotel installed real air conditioning. Today that hotel building is the Wayne County Museum. I have a cave exhibit in that basement room with photos of Wayne County cave and an exhibit of caving equipment used in Wayne county from the 1950s through the present. The pit, which has a rail around it, is always the biggest hit. Best to all, Bill Walden Wayne County, KY On 5/1/2012 12:44 PM, Mark Minton wrote: I disagree that ladders are the best way to do even short drops, except in cases where there may be a single short pitch quite remote in a cave. For one thing, to use one safely you should have a belay rope, so why not just climb it instead of also carrying a ladder? IMO also sells cable ladders, but they're very expensive ($150 for 10 m). Why not buy rope instead? Mark At 11:39 AM 5/1/2012, Stefan Creaser wrote: Nah, they're the best thing for pitches upto 30ft! You can get them in the UK Lyndon, btw. Cheers, Stefan From: Ron R [mailto:rcrutherf...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 10:27 AM To: Lyndon Tiu Cc: Cavers Texas Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Caving Wire Ladders? They have been (or should be) outlawed internationally as a cruel and unusually punishing ascending device. On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Lyndon Tiu l...@alumni.sfu.ca wrote: Can someone recommend where I can get caving wire ladders? Thanks. -- Lyndon Tiu Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Re: Bear Grylls related
I worked at a Ford dealership in the fifty's and remember when Ford came out with the 1957 hardtop convertible. I remember them being troublesome! They weren't the first. I think there were a few in the 30's. I've got a '78 International Traveler convertible - the whole top unbolted. I rigged a rope and pulley system in the garage to facilitate easy removal of that very heavy plastic top. Still have that vehicle. It's a great caver car! Bill Walden KY Caver - Original Message - From: Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net To: texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:50 PM Subject: [Texascavers] Re: Bear Grylls related At 01:44 PM 2/10/2011, Tim Stich wrote: I see they have a folding sheath knife. Uh, kind of defeats the idea of a knife that is rigid that you keep in a sheath. Why not just call it a lock blade? Du. I want my convertible hard top. Hey, there have been hard-top convertibles for decades. My aunt had one when I was a kid. Recently they've made a comeback due to increased safety and ruggedness. Apparently there are even hard-top convertible trucks and SUVs, although I've never seen one. Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retractable_hardtop#Retractable_hardtop_roof http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=434550, http://www.onlyconvertiblecars.com/convertibles.cfm?Top=Hardtop, etc. Mark Minton Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] conference prices
The NSS Convention is and always has been a bargain!! Bill Walden - Original Message - From: tbsam...@verizon.net To: texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 8:16 AM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] conference prices I've helped set up conferences for hydrotechs and museum professionals and it gets even crazier since one has to deal with tickets to sporting events, golf courses, local casinos, keeping the spouses occupied with shopping hysterical tours. Then there are the kiddiewinkies. Cavers are such tightwads. snork T Nov 29, 2010 09:53:08 PM, bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote: Those of you who might be moved to complain about registration fees at NSS conventions or were perhaps unhappy about the fee at the recent International Congress hosted by the NSS ought to look at the registration fees for some of the professional karst conferences just posted by George Veni. The Carbonate Geochemistry: Reactions and Processes in Aquifers and Reservoirs next August in Montana will cost $425 dollars for early registration, $600 later. It will last two and a half days. The conference is organized by the Karst Waters Institute, a more or less informal non-profit collection of karst scientists. They have the nerve to brag about the low registration fee. And, no, it doesn't include your housing. Maybe they're planning on inviting that woman from Alaska (you know the one I mean) to give a $20,000 speech. The one arranged for this coming January, 12th Multidisciplinary Conference on Sinkholes and the Engineering and Environmental Impacts of Karst, lasts three days and costs $495. There are a couple of short courses offered at an additional charge that amounts to $50 an hour ($250 or $375 dollars), which ought to buy you a private instructor, but no doubt doesn't. The organizers have arranged a special conference rate at the hotel of just $84 a night, plus 15% tax. Extra copies of the proceedings CD, which will cost less than $1 per copy to make, are $25. Admittedly, there are discounts for students. Saving money was obviously not high on anybody's priority list.--Mixon All the world's a stage, but the play is badly cast. You may reply to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Re: tour cave question
Wyandotte Cave is owned by the State of Indiana and was being operated (last I knew) by Gordon Smith NSS Caver and part owner of Marengo Cave in Marengo, IN http://www.marengocave.com/ Best regards to all, Bill Walden - Original Message - From: David dlocklea...@gmail.com To: Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 11:15 AM Subject: [Texascavers] Re: tour cave question So the answer to my question is that Wyandotte Cave is the only closed tour cave due to WNS ? - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Princeton Tec
You need to call for a return. Bill Walden - Original Message - From: Nico Escamilla To: Mailing List Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 12:05 PM Subject: [Texascavers] Princeton Tec Does anyone know if I need a return authorization number to send a light back to Princeton Tec for warranty, or do I just put it in the mail? Nico
Re: [Texascavers] Re: Ultra Electronics Rockphone
Check the the following site for info: Patent application title: METHOD AND SYSTEM FOR RELAYING SIGNALS FROM A MAGNETO-INDUCTIVE SYSTEM THROUGH A VOICE-BAND SYSTEM http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20080227390 Bill Walden - Original Message - From: Brian Vauter To: texascavers Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 5:02 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: Ultra Electronics Rockphone I had also noticed their lack of any real data on the phone's range through rock. There's a link to a publication called the Government Security News that has an article on the Rock Phones. In the article, they also don't mention how far the voice signals can penetrate. An interesting aside, however, is that they also state that US Special Forces paid them $5.7 million for a special detonating device (MI-RAMS) which can transmit a signal through 150 to 500 meters of any material (soil, rock, etc.) to remotely detonate explosives. A vehicle-mounted system can apparently transmit up to 1,500 meters. I assume that the signal to make boom is easier to send than the signal to say boom. Here's the link to the article: http://www.gsnmagazine.com/article/20744/‘rock_phones’_could_help_us_forces_pursue_osama_bi -brian On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net wrote: It seems rather suspicious that they do not give a useful operating range for this Rock Phone, even in the pdf of additional information (which in fact has no specifications). I wonder how much rock it can penetrate. Mark Minton
Re: [Texascavers] carbide vs LED (attempt 2)
While surveying a cave in southern Kentucky years ago, well decades ago, I developed a headache. After a few more shots down and into a room with a huge pile of rotting leaves, my carbide lamp started acting up. For some reason I climbed up high and onto a ledge to change carbide. The lamp still had plenty of good carbide. I looked down at my companion and noted he was fumbling with his carbide lamp and not accomplishing anything. At that point I realized what was wrong and shouted at my companion to climb up where I sat. Once he climbed up to my level his carbide lamp started to burn properly. We beat a hasty retreat. My headache went away once we were outside the cave. That same year I remember survey trip to another cave. We had a high school student with us, who was a student of the 3rd member of the team. The student, Paul, had a brand new waterproof pack. As we were preparing to leave for the day, Paul decided to change carbide. We were next to the cave stream. As Paul opened his pack there was a tremendous explosion. The blast burned all the hair off Paul's face and his face was bright red with black soot. We washed his face as quickly as we could with the cold stream water. He complained of pain from the burn. By the time we got to town Paul didn't feel the need to visit a doctor or require any pain ointment. The red color had pretty much gone away. By morning he was fine albeit minus facial hair. When I first started caving, one could buy carbide at a local hardware store, either in bulk or in a can. I bought a 100 pound drum of carbide which I shared with fellow cavers. I've had two Princeton Tec LED lights go bad - an Apex and an EOS. Princeton Tec replaced both under warranty without question. If you get the Princeton Tec lights wet inside, just open them up to get the excess water out and re-close. Once home or back at camp, open the lamp up and allow the circuit board to dry. For about ten years I was building my own LED head lamps for caving. I made no attempt to waterproof the lamp or electronics other than a conformal coating on the circuit board. The LED element was mounted on a home made aluminum bracket (bolted to the helmet) that doubled as a heat sink. The circuit board was mounted to the back side of the bracket. The fixture was submerged many times and was never affected by being wet. The typical arrangement consisted of one Luxeon 1-watt LED and four super bright 1/8 LEDs all mounted on the aluminum bracket. (Very much like the Apex arrangement.) Other than having to replace the switches, I never had any problem with those head lamps. I considered them a big improvement over the Nite Lite that I previously used and definitely an improvement over a carbide light. I continued to carry my trusty Autolite for backup and for placing survey stations. I never had to use it as a backup and I eventually started using either a Sharpie or red fingernail paint to mark stations with a very small dot. I haven't carried a carbide lamp for years now. I was lucky to work for a company that permitted and encouraged employees to work on personal projects during their lunch hour and outside of working hours and allowed them to take parts from open stock without charge. Parts taken from controlled stock had to be signed out and judgment used as whether or not to reimburse the company. Our quality assurance manager was always happy to make custom circuit boards for employees. (I think that he had too much free time available.) My best to all, Bill Walden - Original Message - From: Philip L Moss To: texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 9:20 AM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] carbide vs LED (attempt 2) Mark Alman wrote: Wow, after reading all of these near-death incidents caused by or around carbide, it makes me wonder why anyone would consider not switching to 100% LED use! Mark Well, I could quibble about whether or not carbide caused all the incidents or whether the propane leak might have been a cause. An accident is what happens when the immutable laws of physics are ignored. - Ambrose Bierce But what about all the deaths carbide lights have prevented? I can think of a few trips personally where the carbide lamps were the only indication of high CO2/low O2. More than once I have rappelled into bad air and knew almost immediately by the response of my carbide lamp. The most recent time was less than a year ago. No LED light will tell you that. For those of you who don't have much experience with low O2 in caves, it can be highly stratified in caves. I have had my head in 15% 02 while at my feet it was 9% (I had a meter that day). OSHA forbids working in atmospheres below 18% O2, if memory serves. At 9%, one passes out very quickly. Imagine you are rappelling into a stratified atmosphere similar to this one. How slowly are you rapelling and how
Re: [Texascavers] karst on Saturn's moon
To Fofo and all, With reference to phd comics! One can easily prove any two numbers equal. I remember this from high school days ugh, 50 some years ago: Given: One can maintain the equality of an equation as long as the same operation is done to both sides. a+b=cMultiply both sides by (a-b) a2-b2=ca-cbSubtract ca from both sides, add b2 to both sides a2-ca=b2-cbComplete the square by adding c2/4 to both sides a2-ca+c2/4=b2-cb+b2/4 now take the square root of both sides a-c/2=b-c/2Add c/2 to both sides a=b Beautiful -- right? Try substituting real numbers such as 2+3=5 and maintain the format. Results: 2=3. What does this have to do with caving?? It sure could screw up our surveys! I bet the press would have fun with this. OK where is the fallacy? Best regards, Bill Walden - Original Message - From: Fofo gonza...@msu.edu To: Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 11:49 AM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] karst on Saturn's moon It goes something like this: http://www.phdcomics.com/comics.php?f=1174 - Fofo Mixon Bill wrote, on 5/3/10 7:03: Where do they find those idiots to write press releases? ... - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] US Fish and Wildlife Issues Caving Moratorium in the East
One Word: Commerce And don't forget the US Government operates some of the largest commercial caves - the biggest operation here in KY. Bill Walden - Original Message - From: Keith Goggin To: Preston Forsythe ; Denise P ; TexasCavers Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 3:29 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] US Fish and Wildlife Issues Caving Moratorium in the East I like how commercial caves are apparently immune to the problem. -- From: Preston Forsythe pns_...@bellsouth.net To: Denise P pepabe...@hotmail.com; TexasCavers texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:45:36 PM Subject: [Texascavers] US Fish and Wildlife Issues Caving Moratorium in the East Subject: URGENT: USFWS issues call for caving moratorium At 2:00 this afternoon, the USFWS issued a call for a moratorium on caving in all WNS-affected states and adjoining states - basically, Maine to Ohio, to Kentucky, to North Carolina. Here is their statement and a link to more info. Peter (I don't know who Peter is but...) Cave activity discouraged to help protect bats from deadly white-nose syndrome White-nose syndrome, a wildlife crisis of unprecedented proportions, has killed hundreds of thousands of bats from Vermont to West Virginia and continues unchecked. Now, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is asking those who use caves where bats hibernate – called hibernacula – to take extra precautions and to curtail activities to help prevent the spread of WNS. There is no known human health risk associated with white-nose syndrome in bats. While the actual cause of WNS is unknown, scientists are reasonably certain that WNS is transmitted from bat-to-bat. However, WNS has been found in caves a significant distance from WNS-affected hibernacula, leading scientists to believe that something else is moving WNS. “We suspect that white-nose syndrome may be transmitted by humans inadvertently carrying WNS from cave to cave where bats hibernate,” said Northeast Regional Director Marvin Moriarty of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. In addition, federal and state scientists will evaluate all scientific activities in hibernacula for their potential to spread WNS, weighing potential benefits of the research against the risk to bats. “We are working closely with state natural resource agencies, the caving community, conservation organizations and other federal agencies on this issue,9 D Moriarty said. “We understand that following these recommendations will inconvenience recreational cavers, but we believe this is the most responsible course of action as we face this unknown threat to bats, which play an important role in our world.” The Service’s cave advisory will be posted at 2 p.m. at http://www.fws. gov/northeast/ white_nose. html. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service works with others to conserve, protect, and enhance fish, wildlife, plants, and their habitats for the continuing benefit of the American people. We are both a leader and a trusted partner in fish and wildlife conservation, known for our scientific excellence, stewardship of lands and natural resources, dedicated professionals, and commitment to public service. For more information about our work and the people who make it happen, visit http://www.fws.gov. Questions and Answers U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Cave Advisory March 26, 2009 What is the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service recommending in its cave advisory? The Service’s cave advisory has four recommendations to limit the possible spread of white-nose syndrome by human activity: A voluntary moratorium on caving in states with confirmed WNS and all adjoining states; Nationally, in states not WNS-affected or adjoining states, use clothing and gear that has never been in caves in WNS-affected or adjoining states; State and federal conservation agencies should evaluate scientific activities for their potential to spread WNS; and Nationally, researchers should use clothing and gear that has never been in caves in a WNS-affected or adjoining state. This also applies to mines used by cavers. What is the timeframe for this cave advisory? We are not placing a time limit on this cave advisory. Scientists are working to determine the cause of WNS. We do not know when we will have answers to how WNS spreads. Whatever is causing WNS may remain in caves where bats hibernate (hibernacula) even when bats are not present, and we are concerned that people may inadvertently carry WNS out of the cave with them. We intend to review the cave advisory frequently – at least quarterly. What proof do you have that people are contri buting to the spread of WNS? While we do not have conclusive proof, the leapfrogging pattern of WNS spread suggests that humans may be contributing to the spread
[Texascavers] Cave Property for Sale
I just learned that a 234 acre (approximately) property in Wayne County, Kentucky is for sale. The property contains two caves: Coal Trace Cave, which has the second largest cave room in Kentucky, and Saltpetre Pit. Saltpetre Pit is approximately 124 feet deep. It was mined for salt petre in the early 1800's and for guano through the 1920's. Local farmers used the guano for fertilizer. I first visited Saltpetre Pit, which we named Barefoot Pit because an 8 year old barefoot girl led us through briar patches up the hill to the cave, in 1972. Paul Unger and I dropped the pit that year and started to survey it. The cave contained a few artifacts from the salt petre mining days and drawings on the cave wall left by the miners. It is an interesting cave. I plan to visit the cave next week (3/8/2009) with Fish and Wildlife people to do a bat count. If any cavers are interested please contact me for additional information. Best regards, Bill Walden wdwal...@windstream.net
Re: [Texascavers] Tennessee cave fatality
[Texascavers] Tennessee cave fatalityHate to sound callous but pot holing (digging for native American artifacts) is popular in Kentucky and Tennessee. Those people really tear things up and leave their trash - lots. Lesson learned to late! Best to all, Bill Walden - Original Message - From: mark.al...@l-3com.com To: David ; Texascavers Mailing List Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 3:00 PM Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Tennessee cave fatality Sounds more like a trench collapse than a cave collapse, David. Thanks, Mark From Foxnews.com: HOPKINSVILLE, Ky. - A Tennessee man has died after a cave collapsed in western Kentucky while he was digging for Native American artifacts. Christian County Coroner Dorris Lamb says 42-year-old Devin William Peters, of Clarksville, Tenn., was killed in the accident. Christian County Rescue Team director Randy Graham told the Kentucky New Era that Peters and another man were at the cave, located between Pembroke and Oak Grove, when the walls of an excavation trench collapsed. The second man was above ground and telephoned for help at 4 p.m. CST Monday. Graham said Peters' remains were found eight feet below the floor of the cave, buried under about four feet of dirt. Graham said the remains were removed about four hours after the collapse. -- From: David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com] Sent: Tue 12/2/2008 1:22 PM To: Texascavers Mailing List Subject: [Texascavers] Tennessee cave fatality Were these 2 guys cavers? http://www.kentucky.com/471/story/612969.html - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] NSS Convention
Philip, I cannot agree more! I don't think that the NSS has done anything or failed to do anything to retain and attract members. I've noted that service clubs are having the same problem and that started with the 1990's or late 80's. The grotto to which I belong, The Central Ohio Grotto (COG), is down to just a few members. It has always been a project oriented club surveying the caves in Kentucky -- a club of cave surveyors. It was COG members that founded CRF. COG member Jim Dyer chaired the NSS Photo Salon from 1962 - 69. He died (1970??). Ed Herel took the salon over after Jim died and was salon chairman from 1970 - 78 (doesn't agree with the NSS WEB site listing which I think is in error). Those years the COG always had a preview of the salon for the June meeting and almost every COG member attended the NSS Convention. We had a lot of dedicated cavers. The grotto was active in cave surveying and with the NSS. The NSS convention was the main event each year for club members. I've joined another grotto that is very successful. They have a lot of organized sport trips, don't have any survey projects, and have really great parties. While fun, the grotto has no cave projects. They do have several members who regularly help with my survey projects - hence my reason for joining. What happened? Perhaps staying connected to one's job has affected some people. Late in my career I got a new boss who wanted to be able to contact me at any time. Not possible I told him. I'm always out of reach on weekends. Cell phones don't work where I go! He never liked that. Tough! Organized kid activities appear to take more parental time than ever today. The list of activities through the seasons seems endless. With my family caving was the kid activity! My daughter was caving before she was born! Once born we used to put her in the backpack carrier and take her into the caves on easy survey trips! She was always real quiet and wide eyed! Now married and a professional, she is still caving. I suspect modern electronics may play a role too. Many people spend way too much time on the computer or playing electronic games. Add the above together along with factors I haven't thought of and the result is less time spent on service oriented organizations. Cave surveying continues in south central Kentucky but most is being done by individuals and not by grottos. Most of us project leaders are in our 40's and up in age. Most are driving 4 to 6 hours to get here. Me, I retired to Wayne County, Kentucky so I can cave more! See you all in Lake City, Bill Walden - Original Message - From: Philip L Moss philipm...@juno.com To: texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 9:19 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] NSS Convention I am looking forward to the day when the NSS Photo Salon is shown live on my 65 inch LCD TV in my living room, along with the exploration programs, and video salon, etc. David Locklear The opinions offered below are my own. I hope the NSS never shows the photo salon or any other convention activities live. NSS membership retention (not recruitment as many would have you believe) is way down. From the mid-1960s to the mid-1970s, the NSS Convention had attendance that was equivalent to 20% of the membership. Since 1976, the largest convention has been equivalent to 14% of the membership and many have been under 10%, although at least one flaw in my model is the fact that membership retention did not plummet until 1995 (Does anybody know what it was the NSS did in 1995 or possibly 1994 to so disaffect its members?) It is my opinion that membership retention is affected strongly by personal interaction among the members. Convention attendance is one of main things that separates a committed member from a magazine subscriber. The NSS can not thrive by having any number of subscribers to the NSS; there are way too many activities that the NSS depends on volunteers to run. Voting generally tracks the attendance at the previous convention. I believe that conventions are the glue that holds the NSS together and we need more glue, not less. The more one can get the benefits of convention without attending and having the personal interactions of actually attending, the poorer the NSS will be. People who routinely attend NSS conventions are more likely to volunteer their time, donate their money, and vote for Directors. Philip L. Moss Former NSS Director and recovering speleopolitician philipm...@juno.com Save on Cell Phones. Click Now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nRN16uIMOfB5d9pqWzIGDj3k34ppBEmbCU3nNm4idzRCCtx/ - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail
Re: [Texascavers] NSS Convention
Re: [Texascavers] NSS ConventionA reply to William Hart Russell: The NSS Convention moves around enough that it is within a day's drive for most of us every few years. My family has always made it a vacation - a week at convention and a week touring. I don't believe that digital interaction can ever replace personal interaction and hands on experience. I continue to look forward to the NSS Convention every year that I am able to attend. That said, I do agree that a caver does not have to attend conventions to be a dedicated NSS member. Best regards, Bill Walden - Original Message - From: William H. Russell To: Philip L Moss ; texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 10:11 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] NSS Convention I am looking forward to the day when the NSS Photo Salon is shown live on my 65 inch LCD TV in my living room, along with the exploration programs, and video salon, etc. David Locklear The opinions offered below are my own. I hope the NSS never shows the photo salon or any other convention activities live. NSS membership retention (not recruitment as many would have you believe) is way down. From the mid-1960s to the mid-1970s, the NSS Convention had attendance that was equivalent to 20% of the membership. Since 1976, the largest convention has been equivalent to 14% of the membership and many have been under 10%, although at least one flaw in my model is the fact that membership retention did not plummet until 1995 (Does anybody know what it was the NSS did in 1995 or possibly 1994 to so disaffect its members?) It is my opinion that membership retention is affected strongly by personal interaction among the members. Convention attendance is one of main things that separates a committed member from a magazine subscriber. The NSS can not thrive by having any number of subscribers to the NSS; there are way too many activities that the NSS depends on volunteers to run. Voting generally tracks the attendance at the previous convention. I believe that conventions are the glue that holds the NSS together and we need more glue, not less. The more one can get the benefits of convention without attending and having the personal interactions of actually attending, the poorer the NSS will be. People who routinely attend NSS conventions are more likely to volunteer their time, donate their money, and vote for Directors. Philip L. Moss Former NSS Director and recovering speleopolitician philipm...@juno.com On the other hand perhaps the decline in NSS retention post 1995 is because the NSS directorate is holding on to a rosy nostalgia of driving across the country to meet their friends at a convention as the glue that holds the NSS together; while the general society is moving to digital interaction. Cavers along with everyone else increasingly see little need for everyone to gather in one place; and perhaps, given the time and expense as even counterproductive. Retention in any group is affected strongly by personal interaction between the members, but having to drive across the country to do this would appear to be a strategic weakness. In the digital age one should not have to attend a convention to be a committed member. It might be to increase retention we need to find directors that are more comfortable with digital interaction. They will spend the time and energy to make the digital NSS more than a magazine subscription. Bill Russell Save on Cell Phones. Click Now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nRN16uIMOfB5d9pqWzIGDj3k34ppBEmbCU3nNm4idzRCCtx/ - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com -- William Hart Russell 4806 Red River Street Austin, TX 78751 H: 512-453-4774 (messages) CELL: 512-940-8336
[Texascavers] Encyclopedia of Life
Check out the first release of the Encyclopedia of Life portal. The first 30,000 pages have been unveiled of a vast encyclopedia which aims to catalog every one of our planet's 1.8 million species. The immense on line resource is designed to greatly enhance our understanding of the world's diminishing biodiversity. The creators of the database say it could have an impact on human knowledge comparable to that which followed the microscope's invention in the 1600s. It is designed to be used by everyone from scientists to lay readers. The database has very little on cave critters so perhaps we cavers can help with the project. Enter http://www.eol.org/ to take a look. Best to all, Bill Walden - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] OT - future of automobiles
Gee, how many DC3's are still flying! The DeLorian was stainless steel. There was a version of the Jaguar XK150 that was aluminum. I recall that my college roommate's older brother had one. The body was cast aluminum! I believe those aluminum bodied Jags to be rare. I see no reason why the average family car cannot do better than 40 miles per gallon. I'm driving the second car that I have owned which gets better than 50 miles per gallon. The first was a Nissan Sentra with a 1.9 liter diesel engine. The worst that it did was 44 miles per gallon in town and best for an extended trip was 53.5 miles per gallon on a trip to the Yreka, California NSS Convention from Columbus, Ohio. My current car is a VW Jetta diesel. I'm disappointed when it gets less than 50 mpg. The worst the Jetta has ever done on a tankful was 46.5 mpg. Todays diesels are a lot cleaner burning than those of the previous century and the thermal efficiency far exceeds that of gasoline engines. Of course both of these cars have manual transmissions. The same models with automatics get poorer fuel mileage and lack the pep of the manuals. Americans may just have to learn how to drive cars with manual transmissions. Hybrid cars allow the heat engines to run near peak efficiency and thus achieve better fuel mileage. But, none of the current production models (in real life) match or exceed the VW Jetta diesel with a manual transmission. Where are the diesel hybrids? Europe and Canada have them but not the USA. Battery power cars - will never have the range. Besides that is just displacement of the point of pollution, same for fuel celled cars. All that extra battery weight kills efficiency. Fuel cells do not yet equal the thermal efficiency of the best diesels. I don't see them as practical until they can run efficiently on methane. The problem with hydrogen fuel cells is the production of hydrogen. Two ways: 1) electrolysis of water. 2) cracking hydrocarbons. Either technique requires a lot of energy (fuel - probably coal). There are emerging nations that have populations three and four times that of the United States. They are beginning to drive more and more cars and trucks. How can we continue to release stored solar energy into the atmosphere? The solution might be with using renewable resources. But these must require far less energy to grow and process than they provide. Corn is not the solution! Trees??? Now just to make this a caving forum I discovered over 3000 feet of large virgin walking passage in the cave system I have been working on for the past 10 years. Everyone thought the area caved out. Persistence pays off. Best of all the entrance is within 100 feet of where one can park a 4X4 vehicle. Down side: One must work his way through a breakdown maze. I expect to find much more there this coming weekend. Best to all, Bill Walden Kentucky Caver George Nincehelser wrote: A big drawback of aluminum is its metal fatigue characteristics. You pretty much have to expect that it's eventually going to fail, but you really don't know when. What I find really disturbing is that aluminum is used for airplanes. The only reason they aren't falling out of the air more often is they put a time limit on how long you can use the parts. Just another reason I don't like to fly. George On 12/10/07, *Fritz Holt* fh...@townandcountryins.com mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com wrote: I wonder why Ford or GM hasn't started making car bodies and more other parts from aluminum. I would believe that we (U S residents and visitors) throw away more aluminum cans than the rest of the world combined. For whatever reason, I have heard that some large aluminum corporation ceased their recycling operations in the recent past. Could producing new aluminum really be more cost efficient than recycling? The only automobile body made of aluminum that I can recall was a limited run of DeLorians which are now collectibles demanding big prices. I assume that Mr. DeLorian's personal problems led to the demise of the company. These cars were hailed as really high tech automobiles. I would like to hear from an informed source as to why no aluminum auto bodies with the manufacturer's quest for better gas mileage which would be aided greatly by weight reduction. For an interesting read, Google Delorian and the auto and its founder, John Z. DeLorian pops up. Fritz -Original Message- From: Stefan Creaser [mailto:stefan.crea...@arm.com mailto:stefan.crea...@arm.com] Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 1:10 PM To: David Locklear; Texas Cavers Subject: RE: [Texascavers] OT - future of automobiles David, There are many cars out there that don't use a whole lot of steel in their construction. For instance, the Mazda RX-8 I have has many panels made of plastic**. Some high
[Texascavers] First Annual Conference of Creation Geologists
The following site has the proceedings of the First Conference on Creation Geology. Cedarville University is a bible college. http://www.cedarville.edu/departments/er/geology/abstractbook.pdf Bill Walden - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Beer bottles
Louise and all, I accidentally knocked a bottle of beer from the garage refrigerator Friday evening and the bottle shattered into hundreds of sharp pieces. I lamented the loss of a beer particularly because I live in a dry area of KY. My house overlooks Otter Creek and we have a really nice beach below the house. The beer of choice for the litterbugs is clearly Bud Light in bottles, many of which are broken. The beach is a popular swimming hole. Glass beer bottles and beaches don't mix. I cannot count the number of heavy duty contractor bags that I have filled with Bud Light bottles and a few Miller beer bottles from the beach. The type bottle you mention would be great. What kind of beer? Perhaps we could encourage Anheuser-Busch and other companies to adopt such bottles. Best to all, Bill Walden Haven't seen this in the PacNW, but I have to agree w/Mark. Probably a marketing gimmick. Mark said: /Aluminum is almost certainly more environmentally damaging to produce than glass, but on the other hand, it won't break and leave sharp shards lying around. / Do glass beer bottles still make sharp shards? I dropped one on my concrete front porch last year and, after getting over the horror of wasting a beer, noticed that most of the bottle had crumbled into a sand-like consistency. No sharp corners, even on the bigger pieces. Louise From: /David Locklear dlocklea...@gmail.com/ To: /Texas Cavers texascavers@texascavers.com/ Subject: /[Texascavers] OT- aluminum bottled beer/ List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: /Mon, 29 Oct 2007 12:40:19 -0600/ MIME-Version: /1.0/ Received: /from raistlin.wokka.org ([69.56.185.90]) by bay0-mc8-f20.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Mon, 29 Oct 2007 11:40:49 -0700/ Received: /(qmail 34633 invoked by uid 89); 29 Oct 2007 18:40:51 -/ Received: /(qmail 34624 invoked by uid 31338); 29 Oct 2007 18:40:50 -/ This is really old news, but it is caving related because most cavers like beer, and many cavers in the world consider beer a part of their after-cave-trip celebration. All the young preppies here in Houston ( and the Britney Spears wannabes ) seem to prefer their beer in an aluminum bottle? I haven't tried one yet, and I wouldn't be a fair tester as I have never acquired a taste for beer. What is up with the aluminum bottle? Is the only benefit, colder beer? Or colder beer for less energy? Is that better for the environment than a glass bottle? I assume this has caught on nationwide. Does the top screw back on? That could be a benefit. If there were an occasion to take beer in a cave, then having it in an aluminum bottle would be ideal, right? ( like during the tuxedo caving trips ) David Locklear caver in Fort Bend County old Ref: http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/040824/040824_beer_hmed_3p.hmedium.jpg - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] LED Primer
Don, assuming each diode has a voltage drop of 3.6 volts, your series string of 40 would have a voltage drop of 144 volts at rated current. (I assume 20 mA) The red dot marks the positive terminal of the capacitor. At only 20 mA the capacitor may level the voltage closer to the peak value of the voltage You may want to use a 1000 ohm resistor and two capacitors - one on either side of the resistor - a pi network filter. Use a 1/2 watt or greater resistor. Using a multimeter check the current in the circuit. Meter should be in series with the LEDs. Adjust the value of the resistor to keep the current at or less than the rated current for the LED's. Check the spec sheet for your LEDs for actual ratings. Best regards, Bill Walden . Don Cooper wrote: Speaking of LEDs... I'm wanting to use a large capacitor to level the voltage off half-wave rectification (single std.diode isolating the capacitor - [k.i.s.]) - for a big series string of 40 white LEDs that are hooked up direct with a 100ohm resistor in series. It works, but flickers at 60hz. It is running on the positive side of the sine wave which I think peaks at 177v (110 RMS). While swinging negative across the LEDs - the house current is a disconnect. They are diodes after all. It's a fairly bright and efficient light (probably). Unusually oriented - the multiple inline elements produce polarized shadows (only vertically aligned objects in the room have defined shadows - this might make an interesting way to light cave formations!) Hooked up to AC - the flicker is a bit bothersome. But making it on all the time using a capacitor to reservoir the voltage, it will appear much brighter. (A beefier load resistor might be in order to maintain the constant rather than flickering wattage). QUESTION: I found a big 820uF cap - rated at 200vdc. But it does not have clearly marked pos/neg terminal. There is red paint on the base rivet that holds the terminal on. Is that the Negative or Positive side? -WaV A dog. A panic in a pagoda. On 10/21/07, *Minton, Mark* mmin...@nmhu.edu mailto:mmin...@nmhu.edu wrote: There is a good layman's primer on LEDs and the physics behind them in the September 2007 issue of Spectroscopy magazine. You can read it here: http://www.spectroscopymag.com/spectroscopy/The+Baseline+Column/Light-Emitting-Diodes/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/457040?contextCategoryId=2324. Mark Minton - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] OT - the new diesel Jeep Cherokee
David, I still have my '78 Scout. I'm thinking of converting it to diesel. The engine is still available but a little bigger than the 1978 - 1980 engine. It is a Nissan 3.6 liter turbo charged 6 cylinder diesel -- $5000 and is complete drop in replacement. Reports say 24 to 26 mpg. Occasionally Super Scout lists a rebuilt Scout diesel for sale. Check their WEB site: http://www.superscoutspecialists.com/store/ Bill Walden David Locklear wrote: I test drove the new diesel Jeep Cherokee yesterday at the dealer. You wouldn't know it was a diesel unless you opened the hood and listened to it run. With the hood opened, it was still fairly quiet for a diesel. The only style difference is the word DIESEL underneath the model's name on the rear hatch.It did not have the CRD label on the body anywhere. Maybe on the plastic engine cover. http://z.about.com/d/suvs/1/0/_/Q/-/-/Engine.jpg They had 4 of them on the lot ranging in price from $ 42,000 to nearly $ 44,000, and none had 4 wheel drive nor any of the off-road package options. It had a sun-roof, and not just a moonroof. The fuel tank is 22 gallons, only a few ounces bigger than the gas version. It does not use Mercedes latest diesel emission technology, but is built in Berlin. EPA mileage estimates were 18/23 for the 4x2 model with street tires. I think the only other SUV you could compare it to would be the 1980 diesel International Scout 2, which was the 1st readily available SUV to put a turbo on the diesel.The differences though are quite dramatic.The Scout only had 2 doors and a 4-speed transmission and none of the modern gadgets of the new Jeep like Stereo/DVD, Sunroof, power steering, quietness, torque, horsepower, etc. The Scout had a solid front axle and leaf springs. But it did have a removable top and a real tailgate. The turbo-diesel Scout is extremely rare, and keeping one running can be a full time job. ( I couldn't find one on the web, although there are a few gas powered Scouts on E-bay motors. ) Since Jeep sold 11,000 diesel Liberty's, I would expect them to try to build at least that many Cherokees, so they should be around for many years to come.[ I don't know how many turbo-diesel Scout's were manufactured, but the total number of all 1980 Scouts was only around 13,000. ] You could also try to compare it to a diesel Toureg, or a Ford Excursion, but I can't think of any other SUV's that are readily available that have a turbo-diesel, except the humongous MXT. One of the reasons to consider a Jeep is the choice of aftermarket accessories.Jeep lovers claim that you don't buy a Jeep, but you build a Jeep, or something like that. Another reason, might be that someday you could rig it to run off of vegetable oil, or Bio-diesel. The stock Cherokee does not have a good departure angle, meaning the rear hangs down low especially with a tow hitch. But this can be overcome with a body-lift, suspension lift, bigger tires and a different bumper, for another $ 3,000. Then there is another $ 1,000 for a better front bumper with winch.And then another $ 500 to upgrade the roof rack. So you are looking at way over $ 50,000 to get this diesel Cherokee ready for the Sierra Madres. But then you have another problem - the diesel fuel in Mexico may not be compatible with this new diesel emission parts. To the best of my knowledge the turbo feature, does absolutely nothing at low speeds, but does provide a noticeable boost once you step on the pedal. The diesel jeep has only a limited warranty package. David Locklear P.S. On E-Bay motors is a 1980 Scout 2, with a gas motor and lots of off-road goodies.Bidding has just passed $ 2,000.It is in Washington state. I am guessing if you could find a turbo-diesel Scout and it was in good shape, that it would cost you around $ 7,000 or more. Here is one: http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/10/web/2158000-2158999/2158571_6_full.jpg Ref: http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/06/chrysler_introd_1.html http://members.aol.com/EldonMcf/index.html http://ih.off-road.com/ih/IH+History/The-Demise-of-International-Harvester/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/264061 http://alternativefuels.about.com/od/dieselreviews/fr/07GrandCherokee.htm - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] OT - LED's for the house and other stuff
For LED's check this site: http://www.theledlight.com/. I have been using LED's for a caving light now since 1997. Until recently all were home built using the bulbs or elements from The LED Light. And yes, I use LED night lights in the bathrooms. One can buy them today but the first ones I built by replacing the incandescent bulb with a resistor and one or two LED's. Best to all, Bill Walden David Locklear wrote: Are any of you using LED's in the house? I have LED night-lights all over the house. Fry's Electronics sells a $ 26 LED bulb that can be used in household lighting systems. It is by Coast.It has 2 prongs that fit into fixtures like accent lighting. It resembles the photo below: http://www.ledshoponline.com/images/highpowerMR16th.jpg Also, Lowe's has a desk lamp with about 30 small LED's in it that has a small screw in socket like on chandeliers.I have not seen this bulb sold separately, but the lamp is $ 30. Here is a company that sells the kind of LED bulbs that you can put in your household light sockets. But check out the prices. Ouch! But maybe mixed with dimming light switches, you could save some money on electricity. In 10 or 20 years, the bulbs would pay for themselves.Right? And in the long run, you would be helping the environment. We had some el-cheapo LED solar-powered lights around the sidewalk, but they all crapped out after about a year, apparently due to moisture. Do the more expensive ones work any better? And on a slightly related note, We have been using the curly flourescent bulbs for years now, and I can't remember any of them ever burning out. They seem like great investments. Our electric bill isn't that high because we have gas appliances. If we could just figure out a way to make our AC and washing machine use less electricity, then we would could lower our monthly utility bill. Which reminds me, I lived for many years without an air-conditioner in Texas.In the summer-time growing up, we would just take a cold shower before going to bed, open the window and put a fan in the window and sleep with just a cotton sheet or with nothing. I imagine many of you remember such times. There is a recent county song by Bucky Covington called A Different World about those being not different times but a different world, but he doesn't mention living without AC. It seems to be a popular song on the radio. I think it would have sounded better sung by John Anderson, and retitled: Defurnt Whirl'd. ( remember: And we were swangin ) http://www.metrolyrics.com/a-different-world-lyrics-bucky-covington.html David Locklear - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Off to OTR--NOT
Go to OTR or not? Never been to OTR in 40 year of caving. I always use Labor Day Weekend for caving. Yes, I'm sore today! BTW, I was caving with a Texas caver (Kevin Toepke) over the weekend but in Kentucky. Managed to get a few feet of virgin cave surveyed in two caves. Bill Walden Fritz Holt wrote: What's your excuse for the other 43? FH -Original Message- From: Ted Samsel [mailto:tbsam...@infionline.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 9:08 AM To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Off to OTR--NOT I thought about going and claiming to be Locklear. But Gill would have figured it out.. (I cleaned out my toolshed instead) T. -Original Message- From: gi...@att.net Sent: Sep 3, 2007 4:44 PM To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] Off to OTR--NOT It's OK, David; Holsinger didn't seem to make it either. Maybe when you retire. --Ediger -- Original message -- From: David Locklear dlocklea...@gmail.com I can't make it to OTR.That is 58 I have missed now. [ I have a valid excuse for the first 15, as I wasn't born yet. ] - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com http://home.infionline.net/~tbsamsel/ - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] RE: Off to OTR--NOT
True, I think that my daughter actually does caving at OTR. However, here in southern Kentucky late summer through mid autumn the ground and caves are normally dry and my project caves flood. So, Labor Day Weekend is ideal for surveying in caves that flood. This year we are suffering from severe drought - an ideal time to survey caves are not normally accessible. We have not had any rain, other than a few drops that have left muddy rings on the car windshield, since mid May. Sunday as we left the cave, we chatted with the owner. I noted that his cattle herd is smaller. He replied that he has sold off half his herd and will be selling more because he doesn't have enough hay. He only got 75% normal yield from his May cutting and none since. He owns 6000 acres in the bottom of the sinkhole. (Some call it a pseudo polje or blind valley. I call it a sinkhole to annoy the owner - we are good enough friends that we attend each other's birthday parties.) The rim of the sinkhole is rimmed with what I call cave couplets. There are 20 pairs of which I am aware. The final swallow hole frequently clogs following heavy rains and a lake 2 miles long can form in the sinkhole. As for partying, that we did Saturday night. I cooked two 2.5 inch thick sirloin steaks (12 pounds) over mesquite for cavers from Kentucky, Ohio, Florida, Tennessee, Texas, Wisconsin, and Romania. Of course we had plenty of beer, wine and rum too. The beverages probably helped us all laugh at the movie Borat later that evening. The caver from Romania said the people were speaking Romanian in the portions supposedly shot in Kazakhstan. We had a second party Sunday night at a cave owner's house while the owner was in Calgary. We have good land owner relations here. They gave us their house key so we could have a party there. Happy caving, Bill Walden Minton, Mark wrote: Bill Walden said: Go to OTR or not? Never been to OTR in 40 year of caving. I always use Labor Day Weekend for caving. One can certainly do both. Lots of folks go caving during OTR. I did. In fact, because of a cave trip during OTR, Hellhole is now the 11th longest cave in the U. S. at 28.28 miles. Not too shabby, and you still get to party! Mark Minton - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
