Re: [Texascavers] Good cave photos
Very nice!!! speleoste...@tx.rr.com wrote: http://www.pbase.com/marciocabral/caves - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.
Re: [Texascavers] Good cave photos
I've gotta agree somewhat. While the composition is excellent, and a lot of work went into setting up those shots, someone needs to lay off the over-saturation a bit. (a lot) I've noticed that's a trend lately with cave photography, and photography in general -- get a good picture, then jack the color up so bright as to be utterly unrealistic. I'm not a fan of the technique. Chris On Nov 13, 2007, at 10:52 AM, David Locklear wrote: If those photos are today's standard for good cave photos, I would like to see what the very good or the excellent look like. Will the average caver be able to take good cave photos? Is it now just a matter of how good of a digital camera and lighting you can afford? Or can you get photos like that with cheap digital gear? Will mastering Photoshop become a pre-requisite for being a real caver? David Locklear - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Good cave photos
Hi, It's always been about lighting. Partly that's what you can afford. Partly its how much time it takes to set things up. If you think about it, most indoor flash pictures of people are crap, and that's despite the fact that most of a person is usually at one distance from the camera where illumination is approximately constant. Good flash pictures taken by professional photographers involve multiple sources of light, continuous bright lights, diffuse light sources, and time to make all this work. It's not a situation intrinsically unique to cave photography. The reason we think its different is that we get around it all the time above ground because daylight photography has light coming from everywhere. That doesn't mean that you can't get good cave photography with a camera-mounted flash. It happens all the time - but usually only for close-up objects. To get good photos, you need shadows, which moves the flash off the camera. Then you don't the shadows to be completely black, which gets you the second flash. They you need tripods or assistants to hold these things. . . If you give a mouse a cookie. . . Digital photography helps because you can see the results of a time-consuming shot straight up, while with film you take several variations on the same shot with different lighting etc. and hope you got it right. Now that I have a cheap digital camera that still has a lot of pixels and good control features, I'm thinking of getting some slave flashes and trying nighttime and cave photography on the cheap. The wimpy flash on the camera isn't good enough for cave photography, but it can set off the slaves. Thank God being a good photographer was never a prerequisite for being a real caver. Gregg David Locklear wrote: If those photos are today's standard for good cave photos, I would like to see what the very good or the excellent look like. Will the average caver be able to take good cave photos? Is it now just a matter of how good of a digital camera and lighting you can afford? Or can you get photos like that with cheap digital gear? Will mastering Photoshop become a pre-requisite for being a real caver? David Locklear - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Good cave photos
Death to Photoshop -Original Message- From: Chris Vreeland cvreel...@austin.rr.com Sent: Nov 14, 2007 7:57 AM To: David Locklear dlocklea...@gmail.com Cc: speleoste...@tx.rr.com speleoste...@tx.rr.com, Texas Cavers texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Good cave photos I've gotta agree somewhat. While the composition is excellent, and a lot of work went into setting up those shots, someone needs to lay off the over-saturation a bit. (a lot) I've noticed that's a trend lately with cave photography, and photography in general -- get a good picture, then jack the color up so bright as to be utterly unrealistic. I'm not a fan of the technique. Chris On Nov 13, 2007, at 10:52 AM, David Locklear wrote: If those photos are today's standard for good cave photos, I would like to see what the very good or the excellent look like. Will the average caver be able to take good cave photos? Is it now just a matter of how good of a digital camera and lighting you can afford? Or can you get photos like that with cheap digital gear? Will mastering Photoshop become a pre-requisite for being a real caver? David Locklear - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com http://home.infionline.net/~tbsamsel/ - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] Good cave photos
Ted, You are wrong, wrong, wrong. If you worked in desktop publishing as I do and had to make publishable photos out of other people's c*** or if you needed to restore fragile family photos, tintypes, etc, that are just barely visible because of time or deterioration, you'd fall on your knees and kiss the feet of whoever invented Photoshop. Maybe it's not right for you or for your particular application, but for those of us who do need it, it's the only thing that will work. Perhaps NSS just ought to ban enhanced photos in the competition. Or limit enhanced photos to another category. Louise Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:18:32 -0500 From: tbsam...@infionline.net To: cvreel...@austin.rr.com CC: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Good cave photos Death to Photoshop -Original Message- From: Chris Vreeland cvreel...@austin.rr.com Sent: Nov 14, 2007 7:57 AM To: David Locklear dlocklea...@gmail.com Cc: speleoste...@tx.rr.com speleoste...@tx.rr.com, Texas Cavers texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Good cave photos I've gotta agree somewhat. While the composition is excellent, and a lot of work went into setting up those shots, someone needs to lay off the over-saturation a bit. (a lot) I've noticed that's a trend lately with cave photography, and photography in general -- get a good picture, then jack the color up so bright as to be utterly unrealistic. I'm not a fan of the technique. Chris On Nov 13, 2007, at 10:52 AM, David Locklear wrote: If those photos are today's standard for good cave photos, I would like to see what the very good or the excellent look like. Will the average caver be able to take good cave photos? Is it now just a matter of how good of a digital camera and lighting you can afford? Or can you get photos like that with cheap digital gear? Will mastering Photoshop become a pre-requisite for being a real caver? David Locklear - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com http://home.infionline.net/~tbsamsel/ - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Good cave photos
Louise, I agree completely, and I've used Photoshop for some of the same reasons you have - most importantly personally to improve the legibility of scans of many 19th and early 20th century family letters and other documents. The program helped enormously in scanning the journal kept by one of my German Texan ancestors as he came across the Atlantic from Bremen in 1850. The seas, unfortunately, must have gotten rough because he abandoned the journal well before reaching New Orleans. And of course Photoshop is wonderful for restoring old pictures! Roger Moore Houston In a message dated 11/14/07 11:19:44 Central Standard Time, power_lou...@hotmail.com writes: Ted, You are wrong, wrong, wrong. If you worked in desktop publishing as I do and had to make publishable photos out of other people's c*** or if you needed to restore fragile family photos, tintypes, etc, that are just barely visible because of time or deterioration, you'd fall on your knees and kiss the feet of whoever invented Photoshop. Maybe it's not right for you or for your particular application, but for those of us who do need it, it's the only thing that will work. Perhaps NSS just ought to ban enhanced photos in the competition. Or limit enhanced photos to another category. Louise
Re: [Texascavers] Good cave photos
There are some interesting light techniques, that when used with digital cameras, can produce some amazing photos without massive strobes/lights/etc. I'm sure people on the list have seen 360 Degrees of Lechuguilla Cave computer tour that came out recently ( http://www.360parks.com/lechuguilla_cave_virtual_tour.shtml). All of the 360 degree panoramas were illuminated with handheld lights - they literally painted the cave with light for minutes during open exposures. It's a simple technique that has been around for a while, but with digital cameras you can quickly view the result. If you want to take a stab at 360 degree images you can mess around with a bunch of photos in software like Stitch. Maybe it's time to spend money on a nice sturdy lightweight tripod and ditch the heavy battery packs. Simon -- Forwarded message -- From: Gregg iar...@io.com To: Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 10:03:00 -0600 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Good cave photos Hi, It's always been about lighting. Partly that's what you can afford. Partly its how much time it takes to set things up. If you think about it, most indoor flash pictures of people are crap, and that's despite the fact that most of a person is usually at one distance from the camera where illumination is approximately constant. Good flash pictures taken by professional photographers involve multiple sources of light, continuous bright lights, diffuse light sources, and time to make all this work. It's not a situation intrinsically unique to cave photography. The reason we think its different is that we get around it all the time above ground because daylight photography has light coming from everywhere. That doesn't mean that you can't get good cave photography with a camera-mounted flash. It happens all the time - but usually only for close-up objects. To get good photos, you need shadows, which moves the flash off the camera. Then you don't the shadows to be completely black, which gets you the second flash. They you need tripods or assistants to hold these things. . . If you give a mouse a cookie. . . Digital photography helps because you can see the results of a time-consuming shot straight up, while with film you take several variations on the same shot with different lighting etc. and hope you got it right. Now that I have a cheap digital camera that still has a lot of pixels and good control features, I'm thinking of getting some slave flashes and trying nighttime and cave photography on the cheap. The wimpy flash on the camera isn't good enough for cave photography, but it can set off the slaves. Thank God being a good photographer was never a prerequisite for being a real caver. Gregg
RE: [Texascavers] Good cave photos
You missed my joke.. I use Photoshop everyday,, adobe illustrator.. ARCGIS.. sometimes ERDAS I do web pages computer cartography everyday.. -Original Message- From: Louise Power <power_lou...@hotmail.com>Sent: Nov 14, 2007 12:18 PM To: Ted Samsel <tbsam...@infionline.net>, Chris Vreeland <cvreel...@austin.rr.com>Cc: Texas Cavers <TEXASCAVERS@TEXASCAVERS.COM>Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Good cave photos Ted,You are wrong, wrong, wrong. If you worked in desktop publishing as I do and had to make publishable photos out of other people'sc*** or if you needed to restore fragile family photos, tintypes, etc, that are just barely visible because of time or deterioration,you'd fall on your knees and kiss the feet of whoever invented Photoshop. Maybe it's not right for you or for your particular application, but for those of us who do need it, it's the only thing that will work. Perhaps NSS just ought to ban enhanced photos in the competition. Or limit enhanced photos to another category.Louise Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:18:32 -0500 From: tbsam...@infionline.net To: cvreel...@austin.rr.com CC: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Good cave photos Death to Photoshop -Original Message- From: Chris Vreeland cvreel...@austin.rr.com Sent: Nov 14, 2007 7:57 AM To: David Locklear dlocklea...@gmail.com Cc: "speleoste...@tx.rr.com" speleoste...@tx.rr.com, Texas Cavers texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Good cave photos I've gotta agree somewhat. While the composition is excellent, and a lot of work went into setting up those shots, someone needs to lay off the over-saturation a bit. (a lot) I've noticed that's a trend lately with cave photography, and photography in general -- get a good picture, then jack the color up so bright as to be utterly unrealistic. I'm not a fan of the technique. Chris On Nov 13, 2007, at 10:52 AM, David Locklear wrote: If those photos are today's standard for "good cave photos," I would like to see what the "very good" or the "excellent" look like. Will the average caver be able to take "good cave photos?" Is it now just a matter of how good of a digital camera and lighting you can afford? Or can you get photos like that with cheap digital gear? Will mastering Photoshop become a pre-requisite for being a real caver? David Locklear - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.comhttp://home.infionline.net/~tbsamsel/ - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com http://home.infionline.net/~tbsamsel/ - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Good cave photos
http://www.pbase.com/marciocabral/caves - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Good cave photos
If those photos are today's standard for good cave photos, I would like to see what the very good or the excellent look like. Will the average caver be able to take good cave photos? Is it now just a matter of how good of a digital camera and lighting you can afford? Or can you get photos like that with cheap digital gear? Will mastering Photoshop become a pre-requisite for being a real caver? David Locklear - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
