Re: [Texascavers] Updated The Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers

[Jules Jenkins]

My son stayed with family or friends or came along and hung out at camp. But, 
it did take extra planning and he was always on my mind while I was 
underground. 
Jules

> On Nov 6, 2019, at 10:30 PM, Jocelyn Hooper  wrote:
> 


Speaking as a mother...ex-female caver...having children is wonderful, but 
changes your ability to go caving.  Easy family trips become the norm. No more 
expedition type trips until the kids are old enough to stay home alone, or go 
along safely. Or you stay home with the kids and your spouse goes on the trips.
Jocie

> On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 11:02 PM Mimi Jasek  wrote:
> Mark, I believe your assessment that the older female cavers disappeared or 
> dropped out - or became more cautious and lived longer - is correct. Of the 5 
> in the Temple Cavers from 1973, I was the only one who continued to actively 
> cave for very long once away from a grotto!  Yet, once I had a child, I quit 
> rope work. Of course, being married to my cave man kept me totally involved 
> in that world! Once many graduate, start careers, marry and possibly have 
> kids, the female caver’s priorities probably change just by the nature of 
> what they do and who they are to their family. Not as easy to say “honey, I’m 
> going on a cave trip, so you need to watch the kids and take care of 
> everything else” when you are the wife/mother figure in the relationship. 
> Especially if you married a non-caver! Many jobs do not have extensive leave 
> time. Single female cavers might have to choose work over recreation to 
> survive - or choose work that is not close enough to great cave areas to stay 
> active. I remember a number from the late 60’s - 70’s forward who could fit 
> these statistics and are probably alive and as well as their particular 
> health situation allows, wherever they are today.  Some will be cavers at 
> heart till they pass, but are no longer active. Others may just have chalked 
> up that time as one of many passing life experiences. Hard for true old time 
> cavers to see this, but life happens, and can change one’s perspective. So, 
> the statistics don’t have all the variables.
> 
> Mimi Jasek
> NSS 15206
> 
> PS In going through some stuff recently, we found our TSA membership cards 
> from back in the late 70’s or early 80’s!! Talk about memory cave lane 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> > On Nov 5, 2019, at 5:03 PM, mmin...@caver.net wrote:
> > 
> > I've been involved with organized caving since 1968, and there has always 
> > been way more than 9% female cavers involved. It seems unlikely to me that 
> > cavers have simply forgotten about their deceased female members. Perhaps 
> > female cavers dropped out and disappeared at a higher rate or have been 
> > more cautious and thus lived longer. Even so, it does seem unreasonable 
> > that the differential would be so large.
> > 
> > Mark Minton
> > mmin...@caver.net
> > 
> >> On 2019-11-05 16:33, Diana Tomchick wrote:
> >> I would like to know, perhaps from someone that was around “way back
> >> when”, why there are only 8 female cavers listed in the Hall of
> >> Texas and Mexico Cavers, out of a total of 88 names. That works out to
> >> 9.1% of the total population.
> >> As I wasn’t around back when a lot of these people passed on, I
> >> can’t speak as to whether that’s representative of the Texas and
> >> Mexico Caver population, but maybe it was.
> >> Diana
> >> **
> >> Diana R. Tomchick
> >> Professor
> >> Departments of Biophysics and Biochemistry
> >> UT Southwestern Medical Center
> >> 5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
> >> Rm. ND10.214A
> >> Dallas, TX 75390-8816
> >> diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
> >> (214) 645-6383 (phone)
> >> (214) 645-6353 (fax)
> >> On Nov 5, 2019, at 4:27 PM, William R. Elliott 
> >> wrote:
> >> EXTERNAL MAIL
> >> Dear Texas Cavers,
> >> I just updated The Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers again, at
> >> http://cavelife.info/hall/hall.htm
> >> I edited and uploaded 43 new obituaries and 4 revised ones. Some of
> >> these came from the old page of 2010, but I added photos and correct
> >> dates whenever I could.
> >> This now takes us back to about 1980 and Chuck Stuehm. My goal is to
> >> get all of the rest done back to 1960.
> >> You can now read about really interesting cavers like John Fish
> >> (passed away 24 October), A. Richard Smith, Chuck Stuehm, Joe Ivy,
> >> Richard Albert, Barry Beck, Randy Waters, Rod Goke, Stan Moerbe and
> >> others. Look for your friends, and the "Lost Cavers" at the end of the
> >> page, people for whom I need more information.
> >> Thanks to all who sent material and photos. I appreciate it.
> >> WILLIAM R. (BILL) ELLIOTT
> >> speodes...@gmail.com
> >> 573-291-5093 cell
> > ___
> > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> > 

Re: [Texascavers] Updated The Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers

[John Brooks]

Bill,

Thank you for your efforts. 
I must say I found myself quite moved reading about friends that have passed 
and remembering the adventures that we shared along the way.

John Brooks

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 5, 2019, at 4:27 PM, William R. Elliott  wrote:
> 
> 
> Dear Texas Cavers,
> 
> I just updated The Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers again, at 
> http://cavelife.info/hall/hall.htm 
> 
> I edited and uploaded 43 new obituaries and 4 revised ones. Some of these 
> came from the old page of 2010, but I added photos and correct dates whenever 
> I could.
> 
> This now takes us back to about 1980 and Chuck Stuehm. My goal is to get all 
> of the rest done back to 1960. 
> 
> You can now read about really interesting cavers like John Fish (passed away 
> 24 October), A. Richard Smith, Chuck Stuehm, Joe Ivy, Richard Albert, Barry 
> Beck, Randy Waters, Rod Goke, Stan Moerbe and others. Look for your friends, 
> and the "Lost Cavers" at the end of the page, people for whom I need more 
> information.
> 
> Thanks to all who sent material and photos. I appreciate it.
> William R. (Bill) Elliott
> 
> speodes...@gmail.com
> 
> 573-291-5093 cell
> 
> ___
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> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
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Re: [Texascavers] Updated The Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers

[Jocelyn Hooper]

Speaking as a mother...ex-female caver...having children is wonderful, but
changes your ability to go caving.  Easy family trips become the norm. No
more expedition type trips until the kids are old enough to stay home
alone, or go along safely. Or you stay home with the kids and your spouse
goes on the trips.
Jocie

On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 11:02 PM Mimi Jasek  wrote:

> Mark, I believe your assessment that the older female cavers disappeared
> or dropped out - or became more cautious and lived longer - is correct. Of
> the 5 in the Temple Cavers from 1973, I was the only one who continued to
> actively cave for very long once away from a grotto!  Yet, once I had a
> child, I quit rope work. Of course, being married to my cave man kept me
> totally involved in that world! Once many graduate, start careers, marry
> and possibly have kids, the female caver’s priorities probably change just
> by the nature of what they do and who they are to their family. Not as easy
> to say “honey, I’m going on a cave trip, so you need to watch the kids and
> take care of everything else” when you are the wife/mother figure in the
> relationship. Especially if you married a non-caver! Many jobs do not have
> extensive leave time. Single female cavers might have to choose work over
> recreation to survive - or choose work that is not close enough to great
> cave areas to stay active. I remember a number from the late 60’s - 70’s
> forward who could fit these statistics and are probably alive and as well
> as their particular health situation allows, wherever they are today.  Some
> will be cavers at heart till they pass, but are no longer active. Others
> may just have chalked up that time as one of many passing life experiences.
> Hard for true old time cavers to see this, but life happens, and can change
> one’s perspective. So, the statistics don’t have all the variables.
>
> Mimi Jasek
> NSS 15206
>
> PS In going through some stuff recently, we found our TSA membership cards
> from back in the late 70’s or early 80’s!! Talk about memory cave lane 
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> > On Nov 5, 2019, at 5:03 PM, mmin...@caver.net wrote:
> >
> > I've been involved with organized caving since 1968, and there has
> always been way more than 9% female cavers involved. It seems unlikely to
> me that cavers have simply forgotten about their deceased female members.
> Perhaps female cavers dropped out and disappeared at a higher rate or have
> been more cautious and thus lived longer. Even so, it does seem
> unreasonable that the differential would be so large.
> >
> > Mark Minton
> > mmin...@caver.net
> >
> >> On 2019-11-05 16:33, Diana Tomchick wrote:
> >> I would like to know, perhaps from someone that was around “way back
> >> when”, why there are only 8 female cavers listed in the Hall of
> >> Texas and Mexico Cavers, out of a total of 88 names. That works out to
> >> 9.1% of the total population.
> >> As I wasn’t around back when a lot of these people passed on, I
> >> can’t speak as to whether that’s representative of the Texas and
> >> Mexico Caver population, but maybe it was.
> >> Diana
> >> **
> >> Diana R. Tomchick
> >> Professor
> >> Departments of Biophysics and Biochemistry
> 
> >> UT Southwestern Medical Center
> >> 5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
> >> Rm. ND10.214A
> >> Dallas, TX 75390-8816
> >> diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
> >> (214) 645-6383 (phone)
> >> (214) 645-6353 (fax)
> >> On Nov 5, 2019, at 4:27 PM, William R. Elliott 
> >> wrote:
> >> EXTERNAL MAIL
> >> Dear Texas Cavers,
> >> I just updated The Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers again, at
> >> http://cavelife.info/hall/hall.htm
> >> I edited and uploaded 43 new obituaries and 4 revised ones. Some of
> >> these came from the old page of 2010, but I added photos and correct
> >> dates whenever I could.
> >> This now takes us back to about 1980 and Chuck Stuehm. My goal is to
> >> get all of the rest done back to 1960.
> >> You can now read about really interesting cavers like John Fish
> >> (passed away 24 October), A. Richard Smith, Chuck Stuehm, Joe Ivy,
> >> Richard Albert, Barry Beck, Randy Waters, Rod Goke, Stan Moerbe and
> >> others. Look for your friends, and the "Lost Cavers" at the end of the
> >> page, people for whom I need more information.
> >> Thanks to all who sent material and photos. I appreciate it.
> >> WILLIAM R. (BILL) ELLIOTT
> >> speodes...@gmail.com
> >> 573-291-5093 cell
> > ___
> > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
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> 

Re: [Texascavers] Updated The Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers

[speodesmus]

Muchisimas gracias mi amiga!

William R. (Bill) Elliott
Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 6, 2019, at 3:19 PM, Jules Jenkins  wrote:

Incredible Bill! I can only imagine how many hours you’ve already invested in 
this project. A massive undertaking! Very impressive.
Thank you so much on behalf of cavers still living, and those in the great 
‘mile deep’ underneath us ALL! 

Jules

> On Nov 5, 2019, at 4:27 PM, William R. Elliott  wrote:
> 


Dear Texas Cavers,

I just updated The Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers again, at 
http://cavelife.info/hall/hall.htm 

I edited and uploaded 43 new obituaries and 4 revised ones. Some of these came 
from the old page of 2010, but I added photos and correct dates whenever I 
could.

This now takes us back to about 1980 and Chuck Stuehm. My goal is to get all of 
the rest done back to 1960. 

You can now read about really interesting cavers like John Fish (passed away 24 
October), A. Richard Smith, Chuck Stuehm, Joe Ivy, Richard Albert, Barry Beck, 
Randy Waters, Rod Goke, Stan Moerbe and others. Look for your friends, and the 
"Lost Cavers" at the end of the page, people for whom I need more information.

Thanks to all who sent material and photos. I appreciate it.
William R. (Bill) Elliott

speodes...@gmail.com

573-291-5093 cell

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Re: [Texascavers] Updated The Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers

[Jules Jenkins]

Incredible Bill! I can only imagine how many hours you’ve already invested in 
this project. A massive undertaking! Very impressive.
Thank you so much on behalf of cavers still living, and those in the great 
‘mile deep’ underneath us ALL! 

Jules

> On Nov 5, 2019, at 4:27 PM, William R. Elliott  wrote:
> 


Dear Texas Cavers,

I just updated The Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers again, at 
http://cavelife.info/hall/hall.htm 

I edited and uploaded 43 new obituaries and 4 revised ones. Some of these came 
from the old page of 2010, but I added photos and correct dates whenever I 
could.

This now takes us back to about 1980 and Chuck Stuehm. My goal is to get all of 
the rest done back to 1960. 

You can now read about really interesting cavers like John Fish (passed away 24 
October), A. Richard Smith, Chuck Stuehm, Joe Ivy, Richard Albert, Barry Beck, 
Randy Waters, Rod Goke, Stan Moerbe and others. Look for your friends, and the 
"Lost Cavers" at the end of the page, people for whom I need more information.

Thanks to all who sent material and photos. I appreciate it.
William R. (Bill) Elliott

speodes...@gmail.com

573-291-5093 cell

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Re: [Texascavers] Updated The Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers

[Mimi Jasek]

Mark, I believe your assessment that the older female cavers disappeared or 
dropped out - or became more cautious and lived longer - is correct. Of the 5 
in the Temple Cavers from 1973, I was the only one who continued to actively 
cave for very long once away from a grotto!  Yet, once I had a child, I quit 
rope work. Of course, being married to my cave man kept me totally involved in 
that world! Once many graduate, start careers, marry and possibly have kids, 
the female caver’s priorities probably change just by the nature of what they 
do and who they are to their family. Not as easy to say “honey, I’m going on a 
cave trip, so you need to watch the kids and take care of everything else” when 
you are the wife/mother figure in the relationship. Especially if you married a 
non-caver! Many jobs do not have extensive leave time. Single female cavers 
might have to choose work over recreation to survive - or choose work that is 
not close enough to great cave areas to stay active. I remember a number from 
the late 60’s - 70’s forward who could fit these statistics and are probably 
alive and as well as their particular health situation allows, wherever they 
are today.  Some will be cavers at heart till they pass, but are no longer 
active. Others may just have chalked up that time as one of many passing life 
experiences. Hard for true old time cavers to see this, but life happens, and 
can change one’s perspective. So, the statistics don’t have all the variables.

Mimi Jasek
NSS 15206

PS In going through some stuff recently, we found our TSA membership cards from 
back in the late 70’s or early 80’s!! Talk about memory cave lane 


Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 5, 2019, at 5:03 PM, mmin...@caver.net wrote:
> 
> I've been involved with organized caving since 1968, and there has always 
> been way more than 9% female cavers involved. It seems unlikely to me that 
> cavers have simply forgotten about their deceased female members. Perhaps 
> female cavers dropped out and disappeared at a higher rate or have been more 
> cautious and thus lived longer. Even so, it does seem unreasonable that the 
> differential would be so large.
> 
> Mark Minton
> mmin...@caver.net
> 
>> On 2019-11-05 16:33, Diana Tomchick wrote:
>> I would like to know, perhaps from someone that was around “way back
>> when”, why there are only 8 female cavers listed in the Hall of
>> Texas and Mexico Cavers, out of a total of 88 names. That works out to
>> 9.1% of the total population.
>> As I wasn’t around back when a lot of these people passed on, I
>> can’t speak as to whether that’s representative of the Texas and
>> Mexico Caver population, but maybe it was.
>> Diana
>> **
>> Diana R. Tomchick
>> Professor
>> Departments of Biophysics and Biochemistry
>> UT Southwestern Medical Center
>> 5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
>> Rm. ND10.214A
>> Dallas, TX 75390-8816
>> diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
>> (214) 645-6383 (phone)
>> (214) 645-6353 (fax)
>> On Nov 5, 2019, at 4:27 PM, William R. Elliott 
>> wrote:
>> EXTERNAL MAIL
>> Dear Texas Cavers,
>> I just updated The Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers again, at
>> http://cavelife.info/hall/hall.htm
>> I edited and uploaded 43 new obituaries and 4 revised ones. Some of
>> these came from the old page of 2010, but I added photos and correct
>> dates whenever I could.
>> This now takes us back to about 1980 and Chuck Stuehm. My goal is to
>> get all of the rest done back to 1960.
>> You can now read about really interesting cavers like John Fish
>> (passed away 24 October), A. Richard Smith, Chuck Stuehm, Joe Ivy,
>> Richard Albert, Barry Beck, Randy Waters, Rod Goke, Stan Moerbe and
>> others. Look for your friends, and the "Lost Cavers" at the end of the
>> page, people for whom I need more information.
>> Thanks to all who sent material and photos. I appreciate it.
>> WILLIAM R. (BILL) ELLIOTT
>> speodes...@gmail.com
>> 573-291-5093 cell
> ___
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> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
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Re: [Texascavers] Updated The Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers

[mminton]

I've been involved with organized caving since 1968, and there has 
always been way more than 9% female cavers involved. It seems unlikely 
to me that cavers have simply forgotten about their deceased female 
members. Perhaps female cavers dropped out and disappeared at a higher 
rate or have been more cautious and thus lived longer. Even so, it does 
seem unreasonable that the differential would be so large.


Mark Minton
mmin...@caver.net

On 2019-11-05 16:33, Diana Tomchick wrote:

I would like to know, perhaps from someone that was around “way back
when”, why there are only 8 female cavers listed in the Hall of
Texas and Mexico Cavers, out of a total of 88 names. That works out to
9.1% of the total population.

As I wasn’t around back when a lot of these people passed on, I
can’t speak as to whether that’s representative of the Texas and
Mexico Caver population, but maybe it was.

Diana

 **
Diana R. Tomchick
Professor
Departments of Biophysics and Biochemistry
UT Southwestern Medical Center
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214A
Dallas, TX 75390-8816
diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
(214) 645-6383 (phone)
(214) 645-6353 (fax)

On Nov 5, 2019, at 4:27 PM, William R. Elliott 
wrote:

EXTERNAL MAIL

 Dear Texas Cavers,

I just updated The Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers again, at
http://cavelife.info/hall/hall.htm

 I edited and uploaded 43 new obituaries and 4 revised ones. Some of
these came from the old page of 2010, but I added photos and correct
dates whenever I could.

 This now takes us back to about 1980 and Chuck Stuehm. My goal is to
get all of the rest done back to 1960.

 You can now read about really interesting cavers like John Fish
(passed away 24 October), A. Richard Smith, Chuck Stuehm, Joe Ivy,
Richard Albert, Barry Beck, Randy Waters, Rod Goke, Stan Moerbe and
others. Look for your friends, and the "Lost Cavers" at the end of the
page, people for whom I need more information.

 Thanks to all who sent material and photos. I appreciate it.

WILLIAM R. (BILL) ELLIOTT

speodes...@gmail.com

573-291-5093 cell

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Re: [Texascavers] Updated The Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers

[Diana Tomchick]

I would like to know, perhaps from someone that was around “way back when”, why 
there are only 8 female cavers listed in the Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers, 
out of a total of 88 names. That works out to 9.1% of the total population.

As I wasn’t around back when a lot of these people passed on, I can’t speak as 
to whether that’s representative of the Texas and Mexico Caver population, but 
maybe it was.

Diana

**
Diana R. Tomchick
Professor
Departments of Biophysics and Biochemistry
UT Southwestern Medical Center
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214A
Dallas, TX 75390-8816
diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
(214) 645-6383 (phone)
(214) 645-6353 (fax)

On Nov 5, 2019, at 4:27 PM, William R. Elliott 
mailto:speodes...@gmail.com>> wrote:


EXTERNAL MAIL

Dear Texas Cavers,

I just updated The Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers again, at 
http://cavelife.info/hall/hall.htm

I edited and uploaded 43 new obituaries and 4 revised ones. Some of these came 
from the old page of 2010, but I added photos and correct dates whenever I 
could.

This now takes us back to about 1980 and Chuck Stuehm. My goal is to get all of 
the rest done back to 1960.

You can now read about really interesting cavers like John Fish (passed away 24 
October), A. Richard Smith, Chuck Stuehm, Joe Ivy, Richard Albert, Barry Beck, 
Randy Waters, Rod Goke, Stan Moerbe and others. Look for your friends, and the 
"Lost Cavers" at the end of the page, people for whom I need more information.

Thanks to all who sent material and photos. I appreciate it.

William R. (Bill) Elliott

speodes...@gmail.com

573-291-5093 cell

CAUTION: This email originated from outside UTSW. Please be cautious of links 
or attachments, and validate the sender's email address before replying.

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UT Southwestern


Medical Center



The future of medicine, today.

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[Texascavers] Updated The Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers

[William R. Elliott]

Dear Texas Cavers,

I just updated The Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers again, at
http://cavelife.info/hall/hall.htm

I edited and uploaded 43 new obituaries and 4 revised ones. Some of these
came from the old page of 2010, but I added photos and correct dates
whenever I could.

This now takes us back to about 1980 and Chuck Stuehm. My goal is to get
all of the rest done back to 1960.

You can now read about really interesting cavers like John Fish (passed
away 24 October), A. Richard Smith, Chuck Stuehm, Joe Ivy, Richard Albert,
Barry Beck, Randy Waters, Rod Goke, Stan Moerbe and others. Look for your
friends, and the "Lost Cavers" at the end of the page, people for whom I
need more information.

Thanks to all who sent material and photos. I appreciate it.

*William R. (Bill) Elliott*

*speodes...@gmail.com *

573-291-5093 cell
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[Texascavers] Updated The Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers

[William R. Elliott]

Dear friends,

I have updated The Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers. Much more information
now on departed cavers who explored caves in Texas and Mexico. See
http://cavelife.info/hall/hall.htm

More updates will come later, but I now have detailed information back to
2010 and a few beyond.

Cavers send me more information, but we still have a few lost cavers. We
need basic info on these folks, at least the year of death might help:

Chip Carney, geologist, died in Alaska.

Jonathan Davis, geologist, died in motorcycle accident in the late 1980s. He
was the son of E Mott Davis,  professor of anthropology at UT.

Scott Lilly, young CVS caver, died in motorcycle accident in the 1970s.

George Sevra, CVS caver, lost track of him.

If you suggest someone, please help by trying to research that person
through online searches. Paul and Elizabeth Duncan found information on
Bill Mayne, who died in a cave diving accident in Florida in 1993, by
searching for him on Ancestry.com. I was then able to find the accident
report in *American Caving Accidents. *


*William R. (Bill) Elliott*

*speodes...@gmail.com *

573-291-5093 cell
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