Re: [Texascavers] Why join TSA?
Thanks, Ron! (No applause, just send money!) 8^)> Mark From: Ron Miller To: mark.al...@l-3com.com Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Sat, December 19, 2009 10:14:12 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Why join TSA? I enjoyed the recent printed copy of the Texas Caver. Good work! Ron From: "mark.al...@l-3com.com" To: speleoste...@tx.rr.com; Linda Palit ; Gill Edigar Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Fri, December 18, 2009 7:10:17 AM Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Why join TSA? Thanks, Bill, for your long time membership, service, and support! Thanks, too, for mentioning the Honey Creek refurbish. I had forgotten about that. Have a safe trip to Mexico and Feliz Navidad! Mark From: speleoste...@tx.rr.com [mailto:speleoste...@tx.rr.com] Sent: Fri 12/18/2009 6:29 AM To: Linda Palit; Gill Edigar Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com; Alman, Mark @ IRP Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Why join TSA? I'll keep it short. I'm a TSA member because: * Caving is a life-long interest of mine, so I support my statewide organization * I am a member of the NSS, and the TSA is a region of the NSS * I like it that funds are available through the TSA for worthwhile projects such as: - Punkin and Deep Caves - Monetary support of the ICS - A grant to refurbish the Honey Creek Cave tower to make it safe again * I like receiving the Texas Caver. There aren't many caver newsletters other than it in Texas. Bill
Re: [Texascavers] Why join TSA?
I enjoyed the recent printed copy of the Texas Caver. Good work! Ron From: "mark.al...@l-3com.com" To: speleoste...@tx.rr.com; Linda Palit ; Gill Edigar Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Fri, December 18, 2009 7:10:17 AM Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Why join TSA? Re: [Texascavers] Why join TSA? Thanks, Bill, for your long time membership, service, and support! Thanks, too, for mentioning the Honey Creek refurbish. I had forgotten about that. Have a safe trip to Mexico and FelizNavidad! Mark From: speleoste...@tx.rr.com [mailto:speleoste...@tx.rr.com] Sent: Fri 12/18/2009 6:29 AM To: Linda Palit; Gill Edigar Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com; Alman, Mark @ IRP Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Why join TSA? I'll keep it short. I'm a TSA member because: * Caving is a life-long interest of mine, so I support my statewide organization * I am a member of the NSS, and the TSA is a region of the NSS * I like it that funds are available through the TSA for worthwhile projects such as: - Punkin and Deep Caves - Monetary support of the ICS - A grant to refurbish the Honey Creek Cave tower to make it safe again * I like receiving the Texas Caver. There aren't many caver newsletters other than it in Texas. Bill
Re: [Texascavers] Why join TSA?
Now that's the sort of reasons I'm looking for, Bill, thanks. And thanks for taking this survey seriously. --Ediger On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 6:29 AM, wrote: > I'll keep it short. I'm a TSA member because: > > * Caving is a life-long interest of mine, so I support my statewide > organization > * I am a member of the NSS, and the TSA is a region of the NSS > * I like it that funds are available through the TSA for worthwhile > projects such as: > - Punkin and Deep Caves > - Monetary support of the ICS > - A grant to refurbish the Honey Creek Cave tower to make it safe again > * I like receiving the Texas Caver. There aren't many caver newsletters > other than it in Texas. > > Bill > > Gill Edigar wrote: > > Well, I have my own reasons for supporting the TSA for 40 years, but I > was > > hoping to develop some positive reasons that other cavers join the TSA. I > > already know why I belonged and will again, but I have had a hard time > > getting other cavers to tell me why and what they would tell new cavers > were > > good reasons to join. Many just stutter and stammer and can't think of > any. > > Others have given me perfectly good reasons--which I will share as soon > as I > > feel I have enough. > > > > And, ugh, this is a totally different topic, Linda. The other one has > been > > put to bed for a while. It is a positive thread designed to help the TSA > > accomplish its goals. I think it's really important for people to think > > about all sides of the issues rather than just blindly supporting one or > > another view. Having adequate information surely can't hurt. And, > besides, > > I'm just curious and have talked to several other people who asked the > same > > questions. > > > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Linda Palit > wrote: > > > > > Why do I get the feeling you have decided this many times, and many > years > > > ago? > > > > > > > > > > > > And does this mean we are taking this discussion off the list for > awhile? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* bgillegi...@gmail.com [mailto:bgillegi...@gmail.com] *On > Behalf Of > > > *Gill Edigar > > > *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2009 4:11 PM > > > *To:* texascavers@texascavers.com > > > *Subject:* [Texascavers] Why join TSA? > > > > > > > > > > > > The question has come up before: "Why should I join the TSA?" The > statement > > > has been made: "If it weren't for The TEXAS CAVER there would be no > reason > > > for me to be a TSA member." Both questions are destined to be asked > > > again--and fairly soon, I think. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yet way before publication of The TEXAS CAVER was taken over by the TSA > a > > > couple of hundred Texas cavers were quite enthusiastic about > joining--with > > > no real material premiums being offered. What made them do it? What was > the > > > attraction of the TSA in their lives to make them fork over hard cash > for > > > absolutely nothing they could hold in their grubby, muddy hands? What > is it > > > that would make you do so? > > > > > > > > > > > > Was it just the camaraderie of sharing a social link with other cavers? > Was > > > it the sense of responsibility to the caver community to share and help > > > solve common problems--problems of educating you and other cavers about > > > proper landowner relations, of safety considerations, of learning or > > > improved methods of cave surveying, of learning about new caving > equipment > > > or techniques, of taking and sharing photographs with other cavers, to > find > > > out about new caves to explore, to create a list of cavers to go caving > > > with, to attend projects, to have an audience for telling one's caving > > > adventures around a campfire, to attend the convention to hear talks > about > > > caves and caving gear and cave science or get laid, or just a desire to > be a > > > joiner? What was the Texas Region and later the TSA providing to cavers > that > > > lead them to join the TSA without a hard copy of anything other than a > > > membership list? In order to try to get to the heart of that matter, I > want > > > to ask Texas cavers to answer that question themselves--and send me and > the > > > TSA Chairman your responses. > > > > > > > > > > > > Why are you a TSA member? Or, why are you not? What, beside The TEXAS > > > CAVER, does the TSA provide for you in the way of goods and services > and > > > warm fuzzies and how might it make caving better for you--or worse, or > not > > > at all. Let's have some information--brief or in detail. We're > sensitive to > > > your emotions about TSA and Texas caving as well, so please include > > > information about your feelings. > > > > > > > > > > > > The time will come, soon I hope, when the TSA will need to answer the > > > questions, "Why should I join the TSA?" and "What has my membership in > the > > > TSA got to offer me as a caver?" Hopefully a long list of reasons to > join > > > the TSA will be generated by this request and it can be handed to those
Re: [Texascavers] Why join TSA?
On 12/18/2009 8:24 AM, mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: And by God, you better do what Lyndon tells you to do! 8^)> He has that special kind of power that TSA needs! (Now you know why Allan has Lyndon working Registration at TCR and Lyndon has volunteered to run it at the Spring Convention). Yes, that's my job, to lure unsuspecting cavers into the collective. -- Lyndon Tiu - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] Why join TSA?
And by God, you better do what Lyndon tells you to do! 8^)> He has that special kind of power that TSA needs! (Now you know why Allan has Lyndon working Registration at TCR and Lyndon has volunteered to run it at the Spring Convention). Merry Christmas, Lyndon! Mark From: ellie.tho...@gmail.com [mailto:ellie.tho...@gmail.com] Sent: Fri 12/18/2009 8:21 AM To: Gill Edigar Cc: Diana Tomchick; Linda Palit; texascavers@texascavers.com; Alman, Mark @ IRP Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Why join TSA? I joined the TSA because Lyndon told me to at TCR registration last year.
Re: [Texascavers] Why join TSA?
On 12/18/2009 8:21 AM, ellie :) wrote: I joined the TSA because Lyndon told me to That's the single most important reason to join the TSA. Case closed. -- Lyndon Tiu - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Why join TSA?
Would you consider increasing your pledge to $1000? That amount carries a little more weight. I joined the TSA because Lyndon told me to at TCR registration last year. I had only been caving one month and joined w/out even knowing the Texas Caver was included in the price. I stay in TSA because its members are loyal and dedicated to caves and are the kind of people who make things happen. The kind of people I want to associate w/ and work w/ to continue improving caving for our state. On 12/17/09, Gill Edigar wrote: > Oh, it's not about the money, Diana. Remember that I'm gonna make a further > $100 donation when I do rejoin. It's about making a positive change in Texas > caving. But don't forget to consider that when I join the TSA I might just > be compelled to write even more really long email messages since I would > then be a responsible member with ideas of how things could be improved. If > I might digress into humor here a moment, "Why do you even have an inbox if > not to receive mail?" No, Diana, it boils down to being a matter of > communication--and I don't just mean emails. > > A lot of the long email are because people don't delete the previous > messages before they post theirs. > > I'm behind you all the way. > Keep up the good work, > --Ediger > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 8:38 PM, Diana Tomchick < > diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu> wrote: > >> Better yet--if I volunteer to pay your dues, Gill, will you just join the >> TSA and stop writing really long email messages that clog up my inbox? >> > - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] Why join TSA?
Thanks, Bill, for your long time membership, service, and support! Thanks, too, for mentioning the Honey Creek refurbish. I had forgotten about that. Have a safe trip to Mexico and Feliz Navidad! Mark From: speleoste...@tx.rr.com [mailto:speleoste...@tx.rr.com] Sent: Fri 12/18/2009 6:29 AM To: Linda Palit; Gill Edigar Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com; Alman, Mark @ IRP Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Why join TSA? I'll keep it short. I'm a TSA member because: * Caving is a life-long interest of mine, so I support my statewide organization * I am a member of the NSS, and the TSA is a region of the NSS * I like it that funds are available through the TSA for worthwhile projects such as: - Punkin and Deep Caves - Monetary support of the ICS - A grant to refurbish the Honey Creek Cave tower to make it safe again * I like receiving the Texas Caver. There aren't many caver newsletters other than it in Texas. Bill Gill Edigar wrote: > Well, I have my own reasons for supporting the TSA for 40 years, but I was > hoping to develop some positive reasons that other cavers join the TSA. I > already know why I belonged and will again, but I have had a hard time > getting other cavers to tell me why and what they would tell new cavers were > good reasons to join. Many just stutter and stammer and can't think of any. > Others have given me perfectly good reasons--which I will share as soon as I > feel I have enough. > > And, ugh, this is a totally different topic, Linda. The other one has been > put to bed for a while. It is a positive thread designed to help the TSA > accomplish its goals. I think it's really important for people to think > about all sides of the issues rather than just blindly supporting one or > another view. Having adequate information surely can't hurt. And, besides, > I'm just curious and have talked to several other people who asked the same > questions. > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Linda Palit wrote: > > > Why do I get the feeling you have decided this many times, and many years > > ago? > > > > > > > > And does this mean we are taking this discussion off the list for awhile? > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* bgillegi...@gmail.com [mailto:bgillegi...@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of > > *Gill Edigar > > *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2009 4:11 PM > > *To:* texascavers@texascavers.com > > *Subject:* [Texascavers] Why join TSA? > > > > > > > > The question has come up before: "Why should I join the TSA?" The statement > > has been made: "If it weren't for The TEXAS CAVER there would be no reason > > for me to be a TSA member." Both questions are destined to be asked > > again--and fairly soon, I think. > > > > > > > > Yet way before publication of The TEXAS CAVER was taken over by the TSA a > > couple of hundred Texas cavers were quite enthusiastic about joining--with > > no real material premiums being offered. What made them do it? What was the > > attraction of the TSA in their lives to make them fork over hard cash for > > absolutely nothing they could hold in their grubby, muddy hands? What is it > > that would make you do so? > > > > > > > > Was it just the camaraderie of sharing a social link with other cavers? Was > > it the sense of responsibility to the caver community to share and help > > solve common problems--problems of educating you and other cavers about > > proper landowner relations, of safety considerations, of learning or > > improved methods of cave surveying, of learning about new caving equipment > > or techniques, of taking and sharing photographs with other cavers, to find > > out about new caves to explore, to create a list of cavers to go caving > > with, to attend projects, to have an audience for telling one's caving > > adventures around a campfire, to attend the convention to hear talks about > > caves and caving gear and cave science or get laid, or just a desire to be a > > joiner? What was the Texas Region and later the TSA providing to cavers that > > lead them to join the TSA without a hard copy of anything other than a > > membership list? In order to try to get to the heart of that matter, I want > > to ask Texas cavers to answer that question themselves--and send me and the > > TSA Chairman your responses. > > > > > > > > Why are you a TSA member? Or, why are you not? What, beside The TEXAS > > CAVER, does the TSA provide for you in the way of goods and services and > > warm fuzzies and how might it make caving better for you--or worse, or
Re: [Texascavers] Why join TSA?
I'll keep it short. I'm a TSA member because: * Caving is a life-long interest of mine, so I support my statewide organization * I am a member of the NSS, and the TSA is a region of the NSS * I like it that funds are available through the TSA for worthwhile projects such as: - Punkin and Deep Caves - Monetary support of the ICS - A grant to refurbish the Honey Creek Cave tower to make it safe again * I like receiving the Texas Caver. There aren't many caver newsletters other than it in Texas. Bill Gill Edigar wrote: > Well, I have my own reasons for supporting the TSA for 40 years, but I was > hoping to develop some positive reasons that other cavers join the TSA. I > already know why I belonged and will again, but I have had a hard time > getting other cavers to tell me why and what they would tell new cavers were > good reasons to join. Many just stutter and stammer and can't think of any. > Others have given me perfectly good reasons--which I will share as soon as I > feel I have enough. > > And, ugh, this is a totally different topic, Linda. The other one has been > put to bed for a while. It is a positive thread designed to help the TSA > accomplish its goals. I think it's really important for people to think > about all sides of the issues rather than just blindly supporting one or > another view. Having adequate information surely can't hurt. And, besides, > I'm just curious and have talked to several other people who asked the same > questions. > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Linda Palit wrote: > > > Why do I get the feeling you have decided this many times, and many years > > ago? > > > > > > > > And does this mean we are taking this discussion off the list for awhile? > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* bgillegi...@gmail.com [mailto:bgillegi...@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of > > *Gill Edigar > > *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2009 4:11 PM > > *To:* texascavers@texascavers.com > > *Subject:* [Texascavers] Why join TSA? > > > > > > > > The question has come up before: "Why should I join the TSA?" The statement > > has been made: "If it weren't for The TEXAS CAVER there would be no reason > > for me to be a TSA member." Both questions are destined to be asked > > again--and fairly soon, I think. > > > > > > > > Yet way before publication of The TEXAS CAVER was taken over by the TSA a > > couple of hundred Texas cavers were quite enthusiastic about joining--with > > no real material premiums being offered. What made them do it? What was the > > attraction of the TSA in their lives to make them fork over hard cash for > > absolutely nothing they could hold in their grubby, muddy hands? What is it > > that would make you do so? > > > > > > > > Was it just the camaraderie of sharing a social link with other cavers? Was > > it the sense of responsibility to the caver community to share and help > > solve common problems--problems of educating you and other cavers about > > proper landowner relations, of safety considerations, of learning or > > improved methods of cave surveying, of learning about new caving equipment > > or techniques, of taking and sharing photographs with other cavers, to find > > out about new caves to explore, to create a list of cavers to go caving > > with, to attend projects, to have an audience for telling one's caving > > adventures around a campfire, to attend the convention to hear talks about > > caves and caving gear and cave science or get laid, or just a desire to be a > > joiner? What was the Texas Region and later the TSA providing to cavers that > > lead them to join the TSA without a hard copy of anything other than a > > membership list? In order to try to get to the heart of that matter, I want > > to ask Texas cavers to answer that question themselves--and send me and the > > TSA Chairman your responses. > > > > > > > > Why are you a TSA member? Or, why are you not? What, beside The TEXAS > > CAVER, does the TSA provide for you in the way of goods and services and > > warm fuzzies and how might it make caving better for you--or worse, or not > > at all. Let's have some information--brief or in detail. We're sensitive to > > your emotions about TSA and Texas caving as well, so please include > > information about your feelings. > > > > > > > > The time will come, soon I hope, when the TSA will need to answer the > > questions, "Why should I join the TSA?" and "What has my membership in the > > TSA got to offer me as a caver?" Hopefully a long list of reasons to join > > the TSA will be generated by this request and it can be handed to those who > > want to know, or explained in person. What would you tell a new caver who > > asked you those questions? Remember, The TEXAS CAVER should not be > > considered an option in this poll. > > > > > > > > Along the same lines it would be good to know the reasons that several of > > you haven't joined or don't want to join the TSA. If that were known perhaps > > something could be done to address those
Re: Re: [Texascavers] Why join TSA?
Gill's messages are hardly long. Archimedes Plutonium & Serd$r Arg!c used to send long messages. TDec 17, 2009 08:37:18 PM, diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu wrote: Better yet--if I volunteer to pay your dues, Gill, will you just join the TSA and stop writing really long email messages that clog up my inbox?DianaOn Dec 17, 2009, at 8:28 PM, Linda Palit wrote:> Why do I get the feeling you have decided this many times, and many > years ago?>> And does this mean we are taking this discussion off the list for > awhile?>>> From: bgillegi...@gmail.com [mailto:bgillegi...@gmail.com] On Behalf > Of Gill Edigar> Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 4:11 PM> To: texascavers@texascavers.com> Subject: [Texascavers] Why join TSA?>> The question has come up before: "Why should I join the TSA?" The > statement has been made: "If it weren't for The TEXAS CAVER there > would be no reason for me to be a TSA member." Both questions are > destined to be asked again--and fairly soon, I think.>> Yet way before publication of The TEXAS CAVER was taken over by the > TSA a couple of hundred Texas cavers were quite enthusiastic about > joining--with no real material premiums being offered. What made > them do it? What was the attraction of the TSA in their lives to > make them fork over hard cash for absolutely nothing they could hold > in their grubby, muddy hands? What is it that would make you do so?>> Was it just the camaraderie of sharing a social link with other > cavers? Was it the sense of responsibility to the caver community to > share and help solve common problems--problems of educating you and > other cavers about proper landowner relations, of safety > considerations, of learning or improved methods of cave surveying, > of learning about new caving equipment or techniques, of taking and > sharing photographs with other cavers, to find out about new caves > to explore, to create a list of cavers to go caving with, to attend > projects, to have an audience for telling one's caving adventures > around a campfire, to attend the convention to hear talks about > caves and caving gear and cave science or get laid, or just a desire > to be a joiner? What was the Texas Region and later the TSA > providing to cavers that lead them to join the TSA without a hard > copy of anything other than a membership list? In order to try to > get to the heart of that matter, I want to ask Texas cavers to > answer that question themselves--and send me and the TSA Chairman > your responses.>> Why are you a TSA member? Or, why are you not? What, beside The > TEXAS CAVER, does the TSA provide for you in the way of goods and > services and warm fuzzies and how might it make caving better for > you--or worse, or not at all. Let's have some information--brief or > in detail. We're sensitive to your emotions about TSA and Texas > caving as well, so please include information about your feelings.>> The time will come, soon I hope, when the TSA will need to answer > the questions, "Why should I join the TSA?" and "What has my > membership in the TSA got to offer me as a caver?" Hopefully a long > list of reasons to join the TSA will be generated by this request > and it can be handed to those who want to know, or explained in > person. What would you tell a new caver who asked you those > questions? Remember, The TEXAS CAVER should not be considered an > option in this poll.>> Along the same lines it would be good to know the reasons that > several of you haven't joined or don't want to join the TSA. If that > were known perhaps something could be done to address those > shortcomings and make the TSA more attractive. Or, what would you > like to see the TSA offer or undertake that it is not doing now?>> As a current non-member I would like for you as a member to convince > me to join again--sell me on the TSA and its merits and its benefits > to members. Or, you can tell me why I shouldn't. I want to know. > Please take the time over the next couple of holiday weeks (I'll be > in Mexico caving) to send me your reasons--for or against joining > the TSA. It's information that could be valuable to the future of > Texas caving.>> And while you're at it be sure to cc: Mark> > so he can have the information for future use by the TSA and the > Texas caver recruiting program which I'm sure they will be > interested in starting.>> I'll compile your answers and see if the pros outweigh the cons and > hope to see you at the convention and renew my membership and write > up a summary for The TEXAS CAVER to publish and all the cavers of > Texas to see.>> Thanks in advance for your help and enthusiasm,> --Ediger* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Diana R. TomchickAssociate ProfessorUniversity of Texas Southwestern Medical CenterDepartment of Biochemistry5323 Harry Hines Blvd.Rm. ND10.214B Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A. Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu214-645-6383 (phone)214-645-6353 (fax)
Re: [Texascavers] Why join TSA?
I'll pay half, Diana. Diana Tomchick wrote: Better yet--if I volunteer to pay your dues, Gill, will you just join the TSA and stop writing really long email messages that clog up my inbox? Diana - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Why join TSA?
Oh, it's not about the money, Diana. Remember that I'm gonna make a further $100 donation when I do rejoin. It's about making a positive change in Texas caving. But don't forget to consider that when I join the TSA I might just be compelled to write even more really long email messages since I would then be a responsible member with ideas of how things could be improved. If I might digress into humor here a moment, "Why do you even have an inbox if not to receive mail?" No, Diana, it boils down to being a matter of communication--and I don't just mean emails. A lot of the long email are because people don't delete the previous messages before they post theirs. I'm behind you all the way. Keep up the good work, --Ediger On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 8:38 PM, Diana Tomchick < diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu> wrote: > Better yet--if I volunteer to pay your dues, Gill, will you just join the > TSA and stop writing really long email messages that clog up my inbox? >
Re: [Texascavers] Why join TSA?
Well, I have my own reasons for supporting the TSA for 40 years, but I was hoping to develop some positive reasons that other cavers join the TSA. I already know why I belonged and will again, but I have had a hard time getting other cavers to tell me why and what they would tell new cavers were good reasons to join. Many just stutter and stammer and can't think of any. Others have given me perfectly good reasons--which I will share as soon as I feel I have enough. And, ugh, this is a totally different topic, Linda. The other one has been put to bed for a while. It is a positive thread designed to help the TSA accomplish its goals. I think it's really important for people to think about all sides of the issues rather than just blindly supporting one or another view. Having adequate information surely can't hurt. And, besides, I'm just curious and have talked to several other people who asked the same questions. On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Linda Palit wrote: > Why do I get the feeling you have decided this many times, and many years > ago? > > > > And does this mean we are taking this discussion off the list for awhile? > > > > > > *From:* bgillegi...@gmail.com [mailto:bgillegi...@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of > *Gill Edigar > *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2009 4:11 PM > *To:* texascavers@texascavers.com > *Subject:* [Texascavers] Why join TSA? > > > > The question has come up before: "Why should I join the TSA?" The statement > has been made: "If it weren't for The TEXAS CAVER there would be no reason > for me to be a TSA member." Both questions are destined to be asked > again--and fairly soon, I think. > > > > Yet way before publication of The TEXAS CAVER was taken over by the TSA a > couple of hundred Texas cavers were quite enthusiastic about joining--with > no real material premiums being offered. What made them do it? What was the > attraction of the TSA in their lives to make them fork over hard cash for > absolutely nothing they could hold in their grubby, muddy hands? What is it > that would make you do so? > > > > Was it just the camaraderie of sharing a social link with other cavers? Was > it the sense of responsibility to the caver community to share and help > solve common problems--problems of educating you and other cavers about > proper landowner relations, of safety considerations, of learning or > improved methods of cave surveying, of learning about new caving equipment > or techniques, of taking and sharing photographs with other cavers, to find > out about new caves to explore, to create a list of cavers to go caving > with, to attend projects, to have an audience for telling one's caving > adventures around a campfire, to attend the convention to hear talks about > caves and caving gear and cave science or get laid, or just a desire to be a > joiner? What was the Texas Region and later the TSA providing to cavers that > lead them to join the TSA without a hard copy of anything other than a > membership list? In order to try to get to the heart of that matter, I want > to ask Texas cavers to answer that question themselves--and send me and the > TSA Chairman your responses. > > > > Why are you a TSA member? Or, why are you not? What, beside The TEXAS > CAVER, does the TSA provide for you in the way of goods and services and > warm fuzzies and how might it make caving better for you--or worse, or not > at all. Let's have some information--brief or in detail. We're sensitive to > your emotions about TSA and Texas caving as well, so please include > information about your feelings. > > > > The time will come, soon I hope, when the TSA will need to answer the > questions, "Why should I join the TSA?" and "What has my membership in the > TSA got to offer me as a caver?" Hopefully a long list of reasons to join > the TSA will be generated by this request and it can be handed to those who > want to know, or explained in person. What would you tell a new caver who > asked you those questions? Remember, The TEXAS CAVER should not be > considered an option in this poll. > > > > Along the same lines it would be good to know the reasons that several of > you haven't joined or don't want to join the TSA. If that were known perhaps > something could be done to address those shortcomings and make the TSA more > attractive. Or, what would you like to see the TSA offer or undertake that > it is not doing now? > > > > As a current non-member I would like for you as a member to convince me to > join again--sell me on the TSA and its merits and its benefits to members. > Or, you can tell me why I shouldn't. I want to know. Please take the time > over the next couple of holiday weeks (I'll be in Mexico caving) to send me > your reasons--for or against joining the TSA. It's information that could be > valuable to the future of Texas caving. > > > > And while you're at it be sure to cc: Mark > > > > so he can have the information for future use by the TSA and the Texas > caver recruiting progr
Re: [Texascavers] Why join TSA?
Better yet--if I volunteer to pay your dues, Gill, will you just join the TSA and stop writing really long email messages that clog up my inbox? Diana On Dec 17, 2009, at 8:28 PM, Linda Palit wrote: Why do I get the feeling you have decided this many times, and many years ago? And does this mean we are taking this discussion off the list for awhile? From: bgillegi...@gmail.com [mailto:bgillegi...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Gill Edigar Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 4:11 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] Why join TSA? The question has come up before: "Why should I join the TSA?" The statement has been made: "If it weren't for The TEXAS CAVER there would be no reason for me to be a TSA member." Both questions are destined to be asked again--and fairly soon, I think. Yet way before publication of The TEXAS CAVER was taken over by the TSA a couple of hundred Texas cavers were quite enthusiastic about joining--with no real material premiums being offered. What made them do it? What was the attraction of the TSA in their lives to make them fork over hard cash for absolutely nothing they could hold in their grubby, muddy hands? What is it that would make you do so? Was it just the camaraderie of sharing a social link with other cavers? Was it the sense of responsibility to the caver community to share and help solve common problems--problems of educating you and other cavers about proper landowner relations, of safety considerations, of learning or improved methods of cave surveying, of learning about new caving equipment or techniques, of taking and sharing photographs with other cavers, to find out about new caves to explore, to create a list of cavers to go caving with, to attend projects, to have an audience for telling one's caving adventures around a campfire, to attend the convention to hear talks about caves and caving gear and cave science or get laid, or just a desire to be a joiner? What was the Texas Region and later the TSA providing to cavers that lead them to join the TSA without a hard copy of anything other than a membership list? In order to try to get to the heart of that matter, I want to ask Texas cavers to answer that question themselves--and send me and the TSA Chairman your responses. Why are you a TSA member? Or, why are you not? What, beside The TEXAS CAVER, does the TSA provide for you in the way of goods and services and warm fuzzies and how might it make caving better for you--or worse, or not at all. Let's have some information--brief or in detail. We're sensitive to your emotions about TSA and Texas caving as well, so please include information about your feelings. The time will come, soon I hope, when the TSA will need to answer the questions, "Why should I join the TSA?" and "What has my membership in the TSA got to offer me as a caver?" Hopefully a long list of reasons to join the TSA will be generated by this request and it can be handed to those who want to know, or explained in person. What would you tell a new caver who asked you those questions? Remember, The TEXAS CAVER should not be considered an option in this poll. Along the same lines it would be good to know the reasons that several of you haven't joined or don't want to join the TSA. If that were known perhaps something could be done to address those shortcomings and make the TSA more attractive. Or, what would you like to see the TSA offer or undertake that it is not doing now? As a current non-member I would like for you as a member to convince me to join again--sell me on the TSA and its merits and its benefits to members. Or, you can tell me why I shouldn't. I want to know. Please take the time over the next couple of holiday weeks (I'll be in Mexico caving) to send me your reasons--for or against joining the TSA. It's information that could be valuable to the future of Texas caving. And while you're at it be sure to cc: Mark so he can have the information for future use by the TSA and the Texas caver recruiting program which I'm sure they will be interested in starting. I'll compile your answers and see if the pros outweigh the cons and hope to see you at the convention and renew my membership and write up a summary for The TEXAS CAVER to publish and all the cavers of Texas to see. Thanks in advance for your help and enthusiasm, --Ediger * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Diana R. Tomchick Associate Professor University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center Department of Biochemistry 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Rm. ND10.214B Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A. Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu 214-645-6383 (phone) 214-645-6353 (fax) - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additiona
RE: [Texascavers] Why join TSA?
Why do I get the feeling you have decided this many times, and many years ago? And does this mean we are taking this discussion off the list for awhile? From: bgillegi...@gmail.com [mailto:bgillegi...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Gill Edigar Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 4:11 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] Why join TSA? The question has come up before: "Why should I join the TSA?" The statement has been made: "If it weren't for The TEXAS CAVER there would be no reason for me to be a TSA member." Both questions are destined to be asked again--and fairly soon, I think. Yet way before publication of The TEXAS CAVER was taken over by the TSA a couple of hundred Texas cavers were quite enthusiastic about joining--with no real material premiums being offered. What made them do it? What was the attraction of the TSA in their lives to make them fork over hard cash for absolutely nothing they could hold in their grubby, muddy hands? What is it that would make you do so? Was it just the camaraderie of sharing a social link with other cavers? Was it the sense of responsibility to the caver community to share and help solve common problems--problems of educating you and other cavers about proper landowner relations, of safety considerations, of learning or improved methods of cave surveying, of learning about new caving equipment or techniques, of taking and sharing photographs with other cavers, to find out about new caves to explore, to create a list of cavers to go caving with, to attend projects, to have an audience for telling one's caving adventures around a campfire, to attend the convention to hear talks about caves and caving gear and cave science or get laid, or just a desire to be a joiner? What was the Texas Region and later the TSA providing to cavers that lead them to join the TSA without a hard copy of anything other than a membership list? In order to try to get to the heart of that matter, I want to ask Texas cavers to answer that question themselves--and send me and the TSA Chairman your responses. Why are you a TSA member? Or, why are you not? What, beside The TEXAS CAVER, does the TSA provide for you in the way of goods and services and warm fuzzies and how might it make caving better for you--or worse, or not at all. Let's have some information--brief or in detail. We're sensitive to your emotions about TSA and Texas caving as well, so please include information about your feelings. The time will come, soon I hope, when the TSA will need to answer the questions, "Why should I join the TSA?" and "What has my membership in the TSA got to offer me as a caver?" Hopefully a long list of reasons to join the TSA will be generated by this request and it can be handed to those who want to know, or explained in person. What would you tell a new caver who asked you those questions? Remember, The TEXAS CAVER should not be considered an option in this poll. Along the same lines it would be good to know the reasons that several of you haven't joined or don't want to join the TSA. If that were known perhaps something could be done to address those shortcomings and make the TSA more attractive. Or, what would you like to see the TSA offer or undertake that it is not doing now? As a current non-member I would like for you as a member to convince me to join again--sell me on the TSA and its merits and its benefits to members. Or, you can tell me why I shouldn't. I want to know. Please take the time over the next couple of holiday weeks (I'll be in Mexico caving) to send me your reasons--for or against joining the TSA. It's information that could be valuable to the future of Texas caving. And while you're at it be sure to cc: Mark so he can have the information for future use by the TSA and the Texas caver recruiting program which I'm sure they will be interested in starting. I'll compile your answers and see if the pros outweigh the cons and hope to see you at the convention and renew my membership and write up a summary for The TEXAS CAVER to publish and all the cavers of Texas to see. Thanks in advance for your help and enthusiasm, --Ediger
Re: [Texascavers] Why join TSA?
Thanks there, Wokka. That's exactly what I'm looking for. On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 4:36 PM, Charles Goldsmith wrote: > Gill, I'm a current TSA, TCMA and NSS member, as well as member of 4 > grottos. > > I didn't join the TSA because of the newsletter, and the same way with > the NSS or the others. I enjoy the newsletters, but that's not why > I'm a member. > > I joined all of the above organizations to help them monetarily, > because I believe that they do good. They all help in small and large > ways to promote caving, help with restoration projects, educate and > special needs (WNS for example). > > I'm a proud (and vocal) caver that tries to do his part to help. > > Charles > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 4:11 PM, Gill Edigar wrote: > > The question has come up before: "Why should I join the TSA?" The > statement > > has been made: "If it weren't for The TEXAS CAVER there would be no > reason > > for me to be a TSA member." Both questions are destined to be asked > > again--and fairly soon, I think. > > Yet way before publication of The TEXAS CAVER was taken over by the TSA a > > couple of hundred Texas cavers were quite enthusiastic about > joining--with > > no real material premiums being offered. What made them do it? What was > the > > attraction of the TSA in their lives to make them fork over hard cash for > > absolutely nothing they could hold in their grubby, muddy hands? What is > it > > that would make you do so? > > Was it just the camaraderie of sharing a social link with other cavers? > Was > > it the sense of responsibility to the caver community to share and help > > solve common problems--problems of educating you and other cavers about > > proper landowner relations, of safety considerations, of learning or > > improved methods of cave surveying, of learning about new caving > equipment > > or techniques, of taking and sharing photographs with other cavers, to > find > > out about new caves to explore, to create a list of cavers to go caving > > with, to attend projects, to have an audience for telling one's caving > > adventures around a campfire, to attend the convention to hear talks > about > > caves and caving gear and cave science or get laid, or just a desire to > be a > > joiner? What was the Texas Region and later the TSA providing to cavers > that > > lead them to join the TSA without a hard copy of anything other than a > > membership list? In order to try to get to the heart of that matter, I > want > > to ask Texas cavers to answer that question themselves--and send me and > the > > TSA Chairman your responses. > > Why are you a TSA member? Or, why are you not? What, beside The TEXAS > CAVER, > > does the TSA provide for you in the way of goods and services and warm > > fuzzies and how might it make caving better for you--or worse, or not at > > all. Let's have some information--brief or in detail. We're sensitive to > > your emotions about TSA and Texas caving as well, so please include > > information about your feelings. > > The time will come, soon I hope, when the TSA will need to answer the > > questions, "Why should I join the TSA?" and "What has my membership in > the > > TSA got to offer me as a caver?" Hopefully a long list of reasons to join > > the TSA will be generated by this request and it can be handed to those > who > > want to know, or explained in person. What would you tell a new caver who > > asked you those questions? Remember, The TEXAS CAVER should not be > > considered an option in this poll. > > Along the same lines it would be good to know the reasons that several of > > you haven't joined or don't want to join the TSA. If that were known > perhaps > > something could be done to address those shortcomings and make the TSA > more > > attractive. Or, what would you like to see the TSA offer or undertake > that > > it is not doing now? > > As a current non-member I would like for you as a member to convince me > to > > join again--sell me on the TSA and its merits and its benefits to > members. > > Or, you can tell me why I shouldn't. I want to know. Please take the time > > over the next couple of holiday weeks (I'll be in Mexico caving) to send > me > > your reasons--for or against joining the TSA. It's information that could > be > > valuable to the future of Texas caving. > > And while you're at it be sure to cc: Mark > > > > so he can have the information for future use by the TSA and the Texas > caver > > recruiting program which I'm sure they will be interested in starting. > > I'll compile your answers and see if the pros outweigh the cons and hope > to > > see you at the convention and renew my membership and write up a summary > for > > The TEXAS CAVER to publish and all the cavers of Texas to see. > > Thanks in advance for your help and enthusiasm, > > --Ediger >
RE: [Texascavers] Why join TSA?
As I have stated on more than one occasion, with or without The Caver, there are numerous reasons that being a TSA member is worth much more to me than the annual dues. It is mostly the enjoyable times spent with other cavers with like interests and a love of the outdoors. If you aren't already convinced, nothing I can say would make you change your mind. Fritz From: bgillegi...@gmail.com [mailto:bgillegi...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Gill Edigar Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 4:11 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] Why join TSA? The question has come up before: "Why should I join the TSA?" The statement has been made: "If it weren't for The TEXAS CAVER there would be no reason for me to be a TSA member." Both questions are destined to be asked again--and fairly soon, I think. Yet way before publication of The TEXAS CAVER was taken over by the TSA a couple of hundred Texas cavers were quite enthusiastic about joining--with no real material premiums being offered. What made them do it? What was the attraction of the TSA in their lives to make them fork over hard cash for absolutely nothing they could hold in their grubby, muddy hands? What is it that would make you do so? Was it just the camaraderie of sharing a social link with other cavers? Was it the sense of responsibility to the caver community to share and help solve common problems--problems of educating you and other cavers about proper landowner relations, of safety considerations, of learning or improved methods of cave surveying, of learning about new caving equipment or techniques, of taking and sharing photographs with other cavers, to find out about new caves to explore, to create a list of cavers to go caving with, to attend projects, to have an audience for telling one's caving adventures around a campfire, to attend the convention to hear talks about caves and caving gear and cave science or get laid, or just a desire to be a joiner? What was the Texas Region and later the TSA providing to cavers that lead them to join the TSA without a hard copy of anything other than a membership list? In order to try to get to the heart of that matter, I want to ask Texas cavers to answer that question themselves--and send me and the TSA Chairman your responses. Why are you a TSA member? Or, why are you not? What, beside The TEXAS CAVER, does the TSA provide for you in the way of goods and services and warm fuzzies and how might it make caving better for you--or worse, or not at all. Let's have some information--brief or in detail. We're sensitive to your emotions about TSA and Texas caving as well, so please include information about your feelings. The time will come, soon I hope, when the TSA will need to answer the questions, "Why should I join the TSA?" and "What has my membership in the TSA got to offer me as a caver?" Hopefully a long list of reasons to join the TSA will be generated by this request and it can be handed to those who want to know, or explained in person. What would you tell a new caver who asked you those questions? Remember, The TEXAS CAVER should not be considered an option in this poll. Along the same lines it would be good to know the reasons that several of you haven't joined or don't want to join the TSA. If that were known perhaps something could be done to address those shortcomings and make the TSA more attractive. Or, what would you like to see the TSA offer or undertake that it is not doing now? As a current non-member I would like for you as a member to convince me to join again--sell me on the TSA and its merits and its benefits to members. Or, you can tell me why I shouldn't. I want to know. Please take the time over the next couple of holiday weeks (I'll be in Mexico caving) to send me your reasons--for or against joining the TSA. It's information that could be valuable to the future of Texas caving. And while you're at it be sure to cc: Mark mailto:texascav...@yahoo.com>> so he can have the information for future use by the TSA and the Texas caver recruiting program which I'm sure they will be interested in starting. I'll compile your answers and see if the pros outweigh the cons and hope to see you at the convention and renew my membership and write up a summary for The TEXAS CAVER to publish and all the cavers of Texas to see. Thanks in advance for your help and enthusiasm, --Ediger
Re: [Texascavers] Why join TSA?
Gill, I'm a current TSA, TCMA and NSS member, as well as member of 4 grottos. I didn't join the TSA because of the newsletter, and the same way with the NSS or the others. I enjoy the newsletters, but that's not why I'm a member. I joined all of the above organizations to help them monetarily, because I believe that they do good. They all help in small and large ways to promote caving, help with restoration projects, educate and special needs (WNS for example). I'm a proud (and vocal) caver that tries to do his part to help. Charles On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 4:11 PM, Gill Edigar wrote: > The question has come up before: "Why should I join the TSA?" The statement > has been made: "If it weren't for The TEXAS CAVER there would be no reason > for me to be a TSA member." Both questions are destined to be asked > again--and fairly soon, I think. > Yet way before publication of The TEXAS CAVER was taken over by the TSA a > couple of hundred Texas cavers were quite enthusiastic about joining--with > no real material premiums being offered. What made them do it? What was the > attraction of the TSA in their lives to make them fork over hard cash for > absolutely nothing they could hold in their grubby, muddy hands? What is it > that would make you do so? > Was it just the camaraderie of sharing a social link with other cavers? Was > it the sense of responsibility to the caver community to share and help > solve common problems--problems of educating you and other cavers about > proper landowner relations, of safety considerations, of learning or > improved methods of cave surveying, of learning about new caving equipment > or techniques, of taking and sharing photographs with other cavers, to find > out about new caves to explore, to create a list of cavers to go caving > with, to attend projects, to have an audience for telling one's caving > adventures around a campfire, to attend the convention to hear talks about > caves and caving gear and cave science or get laid, or just a desire to be a > joiner? What was the Texas Region and later the TSA providing to cavers that > lead them to join the TSA without a hard copy of anything other than a > membership list? In order to try to get to the heart of that matter, I want > to ask Texas cavers to answer that question themselves--and send me and the > TSA Chairman your responses. > Why are you a TSA member? Or, why are you not? What, beside The TEXAS CAVER, > does the TSA provide for you in the way of goods and services and warm > fuzzies and how might it make caving better for you--or worse, or not at > all. Let's have some information--brief or in detail. We're sensitive to > your emotions about TSA and Texas caving as well, so please include > information about your feelings. > The time will come, soon I hope, when the TSA will need to answer the > questions, "Why should I join the TSA?" and "What has my membership in the > TSA got to offer me as a caver?" Hopefully a long list of reasons to join > the TSA will be generated by this request and it can be handed to those who > want to know, or explained in person. What would you tell a new caver who > asked you those questions? Remember, The TEXAS CAVER should not be > considered an option in this poll. > Along the same lines it would be good to know the reasons that several of > you haven't joined or don't want to join the TSA. If that were known perhaps > something could be done to address those shortcomings and make the TSA more > attractive. Or, what would you like to see the TSA offer or undertake that > it is not doing now? > As a current non-member I would like for you as a member to convince me to > join again--sell me on the TSA and its merits and its benefits to members. > Or, you can tell me why I shouldn't. I want to know. Please take the time > over the next couple of holiday weeks (I'll be in Mexico caving) to send me > your reasons--for or against joining the TSA. It's information that could be > valuable to the future of Texas caving. > And while you're at it be sure to cc: Mark > > so he can have the information for future use by the TSA and the Texas caver > recruiting program which I'm sure they will be interested in starting. > I'll compile your answers and see if the pros outweigh the cons and hope to > see you at the convention and renew my membership and write up a summary for > The TEXAS CAVER to publish and all the cavers of Texas to see. > Thanks in advance for your help and enthusiasm, > --Ediger
