Re: [SWR] Is this hole that appeared in Siberia a sinkhole or a blowout
Jerry wrote: >Given the presence of both thermogenic and biogenic gas in the subsurface i= >n that area, I'd hazard a guess that the feature is a methane hydrate blowo= >ut and collapse feature developed in the permafrost. These seepages will mo= >st likely be occurring more often as the Arctic areas of the world become i= >ncreasingly warmer. Methane hydrates in permafrost areas represent a very l= >arge volume of reservoired methane that is kept in a solid state by the rel= >atively constant temperatures of the permafrost. Warm them up, however, and= > the hydrates quickly change to a gas phase with an approximate 170X volume= > increase. > >Jerry Atkinson. I knew about methane hydrate decomposition from permafrost melting, but had imagined that the methane degassing would be gradual and almost imperceptible through permeable soil. Are there any previously- known cases of confinement until a large-scale explosive blowout occurs? --Donald ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] Is this hole that appeared in Siberia a sinkhole or a blowout
Given the presence of both thermogenic and biogenic gas in the subsurface in that area, I'd hazard a guess that the feature is a methane hydrate blowout and collapse feature developed in the permafrost. These seepages will most likely be occurring more often as the Arctic areas of the world become increasingly warmer. Methane hydrates in permafrost areas represent a very large volume of reservoired methane that is kept in a solid state by the relatively constant temperatures of the permafrost. Warm them up, however, and the hydrates quickly change to a gas phase with an approximate 170X volume increase. Jerry Atkinson. -Original Message- From: George Veni To: SWR Sent: Tue, Jul 15, 2014 10:29 pm Subject: Re: [SWR] Is this hole that appeared in Siberia a sinkhole or a blowout The Global Lithologic Map shows the area as "mixed sedimentary rocks." That map is being used in developing the latest version of the World Karst Map and other members of the team are digging through the metadata for areas with this designation to see if the mix of rocks may include carbonates and evaporites to form karst. I'll pass this on to them and see what they say, although they have other things going on too and I don't know how long it will take them to send me an answer. George George Veni, Ph.D. Executive Director National Cave and Karst Research Institute 400-1 Cascades Avenue Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA Office: 575-887-5517 Mobile: 210-863-5919 Fax: 575-887-5523 gv...@nckri.org www.nckri.org -Original Message- From: SWR [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of DONALD G. DAVIS Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 4:17 PM To: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] Is this hole that appeared in Siberia a sinkhole or a blowout Michael Lorimer wrote: >It looks like a sinkhole or some kind of > collapse from the air. However, an oblique view looks like > there is elevation along the sides, which would imply an > explosion. What do you think face="Times New Roman">? > >http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-2693105/Giant-hol >e-appea rs-Siberia-Huge-crater-emerges-end-world.html It certainly looks obvious that something blew up from below, but I'm not sure that the volume of ejecta is as large as the void below appears. It would help to know more about the geology, hydrology, and water-table level in the region (is the lake in the distance above or below the bottom of the pit)? If warming-driven methane degassing can cause an explosive event that large, that's scary. I'll be interested to know what the Russians conclude from the promised investigation. --Donald ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] Is this hole that appeared in Siberia a sinkhole or a blowout
The Global Lithologic Map shows the area as "mixed sedimentary rocks." That map is being used in developing the latest version of the World Karst Map and other members of the team are digging through the metadata for areas with this designation to see if the mix of rocks may include carbonates and evaporites to form karst. I'll pass this on to them and see what they say, although they have other things going on too and I don't know how long it will take them to send me an answer. George George Veni, Ph.D. Executive Director National Cave and Karst Research Institute 400-1 Cascades Avenue Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA Office: 575-887-5517 Mobile: 210-863-5919 Fax: 575-887-5523 gv...@nckri.org www.nckri.org -Original Message- From: SWR [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of DONALD G. DAVIS Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 4:17 PM To: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] Is this hole that appeared in Siberia a sinkhole or a blowout Michael Lorimer wrote: >It looks like a sinkhole or some kind of > collapse from the air. However, an oblique view looks like > there is elevation along the sides, which would imply an > explosion. What do you think face="Times New Roman">? > >http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-2693105/Giant-hol >e-appea rs-Siberia-Huge-crater-emerges-end-world.html It certainly looks obvious that something blew up from below, but I'm not sure that the volume of ejecta is as large as the void below appears. It would help to know more about the geology, hydrology, and water-table level in the region (is the lake in the distance above or below the bottom of the pit)? If warming-driven methane degassing can cause an explosive event that large, that's scary. I'll be interested to know what the Russians conclude from the promised investigation. --Donald ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] Is this hole that appeared in Siberia a sinkhole or a blowout
In all seriousness. If it were a meteor strike, or something did blow up, within the last ? years, wouldn't it have registered as a seismic event? The place for that is in Boulder CO, and they can pick up stuff from all over the world. That's partially I think how they measure wether someone has set off an underground nuc. Carl…. On Jul 15, 2014, at 4:16 PM, DONALD G. DAVIS wrote: > Michael Lorimer wrote: > >> It looks like a sinkhole or some kind of >> collapse from the air. However, an oblique view looks like >> there is elevation along the sides, which would imply an >> explosion. What do you think> face="Times New Roman">? >> >> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-2693105/Giant-hole-appea >> rs-Siberia-Huge-crater-emerges-end-world.html > > It certainly looks obvious that something blew up from below, but > I'm not sure that the volume of ejecta is as large as the void below > appears. It would help to know more about the geology, hydrology, and > water-table level in the region (is the lake in the distance above or > below the bottom of the pit)? If warming-driven methane degassing can > cause an explosive event that large, that's scary. I'll be interested to > know what the Russians conclude from the promised investigation. > > --Donald > ___ > SWR mailing list > s...@caver.net > http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr > ___ > This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] Is this hole that appeared in Siberia a sinkhole or a blowout
Michael Lorimer wrote: >It looks like a sinkhole or some kind of > collapse from the air. However, an oblique view looks like > there is elevation along the sides, which would imply an > explosion. What do you think face="Times New Roman">? > >http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-2693105/Giant-hole-appea >rs-Siberia-Huge-crater-emerges-end-world.html It certainly looks obvious that something blew up from below, but I'm not sure that the volume of ejecta is as large as the void below appears. It would help to know more about the geology, hydrology, and water-table level in the region (is the lake in the distance above or below the bottom of the pit)? If warming-driven methane degassing can cause an explosive event that large, that's scary. I'll be interested to know what the Russians conclude from the promised investigation. --Donald ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
