Re: RE: [Texascavers] Re: Clean Water Action
Y'all ought to read Stewart Brand's WHOLE EARTH DISCIPLINE. I've thrown the book across the room a couple of times...he's quite the gadfly, as ever. TDec 14, 2009 05:52:19 PM, fh...@townandcountryins.com wrote: Sorry, I must take an opposing view. I consider myself an environmentalist but if there really is such a thing as “clean” coal technology I am for it. We have plenty of it. I also think that generating electricity from nuclear energy makes good sense. The best solution may be natural gas but our federal government needs to wake up to the fact that to get it we must drill for it as well as for oil as we will never be without the need for this commodity. It is crazy to be importing it from our enemies. No one loves our Texas Hill Country more than I but I don’t believe that these activities will be harmful if sensibly regulated which does not mean banning them. I believe that cavers who owned a tract of land would accept a very lucrative offer to lease it for oil and gas exploration. That’s not greed, its good sense. Let the naysayers come forth. Fritz From: Thomas Sitch [mailto:dreadfl...@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 5:23 PMTo: texascavers@texascavers.comSubject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: Clean Water Action "Tell San Anonio's [and New Braunfels', and Georgetown's] Mayor and City Council Not To Support Nuclear Energy" "Support A Moratorium On New Permits For Coal-Burning Power Plants" I love political activists who are very specific on shutting down energy production but very vague on creating it, e.g. "Tell the Austin City Council To Support Clean Energy" How about "donate to build power lines to the T. Boons Pickins wind farms" or "research fund for cellulosic ethanol." Sorry, what was this about? Clean water? Yes, which goes to caves, and we don't have enough of it. Down with nuclear energy!! ~~T From: Logan McNatt <lmcn...@austin.rr.com>To: George Veni <gv...@warpdriveonline.com>Cc: texascavers@texascavers.comSent: Mon, December 14, 2009 4:51:20 PMSubject: [Texascavers] Re: Clean Water ActionI've been donating to Clean Water Action since 2000, and they are still a viable national organization with a Texas chapter based in Austin: http://www.cleanwateraction.org/txThe first thing that impressed me was they still have people going door to door once a year, at least in south Austin where Gill and I live.Although Annalisa of GEAA said CWA does not get involved in local issues, the issues on their website include:"The Coming Crisis: Water Availability and Municipal Conservation Efforts in Central Texas", "Tell the Austin City Council To Support Clean Energy""Tell San Anonio's [and New Braunfels', and Georgetown's] Mayor and City Council Not To Support Nuclear Energy""Increase Funding for State Parks""Get The Mercury Out Of Our Skies And Water""Support A Moratorium On New Permits For Coal-Burning Power Plants"Obviously they are an advocacy/lobbying group, so donations are not tax-deductible. I agree with Stephan that it seems like there is a lot of duplication of effort among the plethora of environmental groups, but many of the smaller groups are devoted to a specific geographic area or issue, and cannot actively lobby, unlike CWA.Logan George Veni wrote: Clean Water Action has been working in the Austin and San Antonio areas since at least the mid-1980s. They have worked to lobby government and agencies, and work cooperatively with other green groups to prevent water degradation. I haven’t seen them much in the past 10 years and don’t know if the organization crashed and is now recovering or if it simply got diverted to other projects in other areas. George From: bgillegi...@gmail.com [mailto:bgillegi...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Gill EdigarSent: Monday, December 14, 2009 12:39 PMTo: texascavers@texascavers.comSubject: [Texascavers] Change of Subject--Clean Water RE: Clean Water Action A few months ago a fellow came by the house representing an outfit called 'Clean Water Action' ostensibly soliciting funds to promote awareness of and promoting lobbying for clean water in some form or fashion. Since clean water is a current topic of interest in South Austin and other parts of the world it would be a good thing to hype if one wanted to make a few bucks from folks with good environmental intentions but who haven't the time to keep up with every environmental interest group that comes along. I gave them a few bucks and signed their petition and filled out a personal data card. A few days ago I got a phone call from them asking for a pretty good slug of money. I asked for more information. A letter followed but with nebulous details. Does anybody have any knowledge of these guys? Where do they fit in with SOS, the City of Austin, the various water conservation districts that some of our cavers work at? Can anybody cite me any
Re: [Texascavers] Re: Clean Water Action
Something worth considering when taking it all into account: It takes a LOT of water to scrub coal-fired plant stack columns. A whole lot of water that becomes horribly contaminated with all the shit that WOULD have gone into the air. Then you're left with a clean air power plant with millions of gallons of contaminated water. Whatya gonna have - clean air or clean water??? So. Yeah - there's a LOTTA coal out there. Only there's just so much clean air / water -WaV On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 4:51 PM, Logan McNatt lmcn...@austin.rr.com wrote: I've been donating to Clean Water Action since 2000, and they are still a viable national organization with a Texas chapter based in Austin: http://www.cleanwateraction.org/tx The first thing that impressed me was they still have people going door to door once a year, at least in south Austin where Gill and I live. Although Annalisa of GEAA said CWA does not get involved in local issues, the issues on their website include: The Coming Crisis: Water Availability and Municipal Conservation Efforts in Central Texas, Tell the Austin City Council To Support Clean Energy Tell San Anonio's [and New Braunfels', and Georgetown's] Mayor and City Council Not To Support Nuclear Energy Increase Funding for State Parks Get The Mercury Out Of Our Skies And Water Support A Moratorium On New Permits For Coal-Burning Power Plants Obviously they are an advocacy/lobbying group, so donations are not tax-deductible. I agree with Stephan that it seems like there is a lot of duplication of effort among the plethora of environmental groups, but many of the smaller groups are devoted to a specific geographic area or issue, and cannot actively lobby, unlike CWA. Logan -- George Veni wrote: *Clean Water Action has been working in the Austin and San Antonio areas since at least the mid-1980s. They have worked to lobby government and agencies, and work cooperatively with other green groups to prevent water degradation. I haven’t seen them much in the past 10 years and don’t know if the organization crashed and is now recovering or if it simply got diverted to other projects in other areas. * *George * ** -- ** *From:* bgillegi...@gmail.com [mailto:bgillegi...@gmail.combgillegi...@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Gill Edigar *Sent:* Monday, December 14, 2009 12:39 PM *To:* texascavers@texascavers.com *Subject:* [Texascavers] Change of Subject--Clean Water RE: Clean Water Action A few months ago a fellow came by the house representing an outfit called 'Clean Water Action' ostensibly soliciting funds to promote awareness of and promoting lobbying for clean water in some form or fashion. Since clean water is a current topic of interest in South Austin and other parts of the world it would be a good thing to hype if one wanted to make a few bucks from folks with good environmental intentions but who haven't the time to keep up with every environmental interest group that comes along. I gave them a few bucks and signed their petition and filled out a personal data card. A few days ago I got a phone call from them asking for a pretty good slug of money. I asked for more information. A letter followed but with nebulous details. Does anybody have any knowledge of these guys? Where do they fit in with SOS, the City of Austin, the various water conservation districts that some of our cavers work at? Can anybody cite me any references of their good work? Etc, etc? If they're on the up-and-up I want to support them, but I've never heard of them before and want a better idea of who they are and what they really do. --Ediger - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Re: Clean Water Action
Ah, dirty coal. Always reminds me of Dick van Dyke in Mary Poppins' scrubbin the chimneys. Or better yet, Jack Wild as the 'Artful Dodger' all covered in soot. A perfect marlboro commercial or the next poster child for the 'Nuke is Cleaner than Coal' lobby. To save water we could climb the stacks a 'PEE' into the emmisions. effectively creating our own SCR, Selective Catalytic Reduction. 4NO + 2(NH2 )2CO + O2 → 4N2 + 4H2O + 2CO2. On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 7:08 PM, Don Cooper wavyca...@gmail.com wrote: Something worth considering when taking it all into account: It takes a LOT of water to scrub coal-fired plant stack columns. A whole lot of water that becomes horribly contaminated with all the shit that WOULD have gone into the air. Then you're left with a clean air power plant with millions of gallons of contaminated water. Whatya gonna have - clean air or clean water??? So. Yeah - there's a LOTTA coal out there. Only there's just so much clean air / water -WaV On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 4:51 PM, Logan McNatt lmcn...@austin.rr.comwrote: I've been donating to Clean Water Action since 2000, and they are still a viable national organization with a Texas chapter based in Austin: http://www.cleanwateraction.org/tx The first thing that impressed me was they still have people going door to door once a year, at least in south Austin where Gill and I live. Although Annalisa of GEAA said CWA does not get involved in local issues, the issues on their website include: The Coming Crisis: Water Availability and Municipal Conservation Efforts in Central Texas, Tell the Austin City Council To Support Clean Energy Tell San Anonio's [and New Braunfels', and Georgetown's] Mayor and City Council Not To Support Nuclear Energy Increase Funding for State Parks Get The Mercury Out Of Our Skies And Water Support A Moratorium On New Permits For Coal-Burning Power Plants Obviously they are an advocacy/lobbying group, so donations are not tax-deductible. I agree with Stephan that it seems like there is a lot of duplication of effort among the plethora of environmental groups, but many of the smaller groups are devoted to a specific geographic area or issue, and cannot actively lobby, unlike CWA. Logan -- George Veni wrote: *Clean Water Action has been working in the Austin and San Antonio areas since at least the mid-1980s. They have worked to lobby government and agencies, and work cooperatively with other green groups to prevent water degradation. I haven’t seen them much in the past 10 years and don’t know if the organization crashed and is now recovering or if it simply got diverted to other projects in other areas. * *George * ** -- ** *From:* bgillegi...@gmail.com [mailto:bgillegi...@gmail.combgillegi...@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Gill Edigar *Sent:* Monday, December 14, 2009 12:39 PM *To:* texascavers@texascavers.com *Subject:* [Texascavers] Change of Subject--Clean Water RE: Clean Water Action A few months ago a fellow came by the house representing an outfit called 'Clean Water Action' ostensibly soliciting funds to promote awareness of and promoting lobbying for clean water in some form or fashion. Since clean water is a current topic of interest in South Austin and other parts of the world it would be a good thing to hype if one wanted to make a few bucks from folks with good environmental intentions but who haven't the time to keep up with every environmental interest group that comes along. I gave them a few bucks and signed their petition and filled out a personal data card. A few days ago I got a phone call from them asking for a pretty good slug of money. I asked for more information. A letter followed but with nebulous details. Does anybody have any knowledge of these guys? Where do they fit in with SOS, the City of Austin, the various water conservation districts that some of our cavers work at? Can anybody cite me any references of their good work? Etc, etc? If they're on the up-and-up I want to support them, but I've never heard of them before and want a better idea of who they are and what they really do. --Ediger - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Re: Clean Water Action
Tell San Anonio's [and New Braunfels', and Georgetown's] Mayor and City Council Not To Support Nuclear Energy Support A Moratorium On New Permits For Coal-Burning Power Plants I love political activists who are very specific on shutting down energy production but very vague on creating it, e.g. Tell the Austin City Council To Support Clean Energy How about donate to build power lines to the T. Boons Pickins wind farms or research fund for cellulosic ethanol. Sorry, what was this about? Clean water? Yes, which goes to caves, and we don't have enough of it. Down with nuclear energy!! ~~T From: Logan McNatt lmcn...@austin.rr.com To: George Veni gv...@warpdriveonline.com Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Mon, December 14, 2009 4:51:20 PM Subject: [Texascavers] Re: Clean Water Action I've been donating to Clean Water Action since 2000, and they are still a viable national organization with a Texas chapter based in Austin: http://www.cleanwateraction.org/tx The first thing that impressed me was they still have people going door to door once a year, at least in south Austin where Gill and I live. Although Annalisa of GEAA said CWA does not get involved in local issues, the issues on their website include: The Coming Crisis: Water Availability and Municipal Conservation Efforts in Central Texas, Tell the Austin City Council To Support Clean Energy Tell San Anonio's [and New Braunfels', and Georgetown's] Mayor and City Council Not To Support Nuclear Energy Increase Funding for State Parks Get The Mercury Out Of Our Skies And Water Support A Moratorium On New Permits For Coal-Burning Power Plants Obviously they are an advocacy/lobbying group, so donations are not tax-deductible. I agree with Stephan that it seems like there is a lot of duplication of effort among the plethora of environmental groups, but many of the smaller groups are devoted to a specific geographic area or issue, and cannot actively lobby, unlike CWA. Logan George Veni wrote: Clean Water Action has been working in the Austin and San Antonio areas since at least the mid-1980s. They have worked to lobby government and agencies, and work cooperatively with other green groups to prevent water degradation. I haven’t seen them much in the past 10 years and don’t know if the organization crashed and is now recovering or if it simply got diverted to other projects in other areas. George From:bgillegi...@gmail.com [mailto:bgillegi...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Gill Edigar Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 12:39 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] Change of Subject--Clean Water RE: Clean Water Action A few months ago a fellow came by the house representing an outfit called 'Clean Water Action' ostensibly soliciting funds to promote awareness of and promoting lobbying for clean water in some form or fashion. Since clean water is a current topic of interest in South Austin and other parts of the world it would be a good thing to hype if one wanted to make a few bucks from folks with good environmental intentions but who haven't the time to keep up with every environmental interest group that comes along. I gave them a few bucks and signed their petition and filled out a personal data card. A few days ago I got a phone call from them asking for a pretty good slug of money. I asked for more information. A letter followed but with nebulous details. Does anybody have any knowledge of these guys? Where do they fit in with SOS, the City of Austin, the various water conservation districts that some of our cavers work at? Can anybody cite me any references of their good work? Etc, etc? If they're on the up-and-up I want to support them, but I've never heard of them before and want a better idea of who they are and what they really do. --Ediger - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] Re: Clean Water Action
Sorry, I must take an opposing view. I consider myself an environmentalist but if there really is such a thing as clean coal technology I am for it. We have plenty of it. I also think that generating electricity from nuclear energy makes good sense. The best solution may be natural gas but our federal government needs to wake up to the fact that to get it we must drill for it as well as for oil as we will never be without the need for this commodity. It is crazy to be importing it from our enemies. No one loves our Texas Hill Country more than I but I don't believe that these activities will be harmful if sensibly regulated which does not mean banning them. I believe that cavers who owned a tract of land would accept a very lucrative offer to lease it for oil and gas exploration. That's not greed, its good sense. Let the naysayers come forth. Fritz From: Thomas Sitch [mailto:dreadfl...@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 5:23 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: Clean Water Action Tell San Anonio's [and New Braunfels', and Georgetown's] Mayor and City Council Not To Support Nuclear Energy Support A Moratorium On New Permits For Coal-Burning Power Plants I love political activists who are very specific on shutting down energy production but very vague on creating it, e.g. Tell the Austin City Council To Support Clean Energy How about donate to build power lines to the T. Boons Pickins wind farms or research fund for cellulosic ethanol. Sorry, what was this about? Clean water? Yes, which goes to caves, and we don't have enough of it. Down with nuclear energy!! ~~T From: Logan McNatt lmcn...@austin.rr.com To: George Veni gv...@warpdriveonline.com Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Mon, December 14, 2009 4:51:20 PM Subject: [Texascavers] Re: Clean Water Action I've been donating to Clean Water Action since 2000, and they are still a viable national organization with a Texas chapter based in Austin: http://www.cleanwateraction.org/tx The first thing that impressed me was they still have people going door to door once a year, at least in south Austin where Gill and I live. Although Annalisa of GEAA said CWA does not get involved in local issues, the issues on their website include: The Coming Crisis: Water Availability and Municipal Conservation Efforts in Central Texas, Tell the Austin City Council To Support Clean Energy Tell San Anonio's [and New Braunfels', and Georgetown's] Mayor and City Council Not To Support Nuclear Energy Increase Funding for State Parks Get The Mercury Out Of Our Skies And Water Support A Moratorium On New Permits For Coal-Burning Power Plants Obviously they are an advocacy/lobbying group, so donations are not tax-deductible. I agree with Stephan that it seems like there is a lot of duplication of effort among the plethora of environmental groups, but many of the smaller groups are devoted to a specific geographic area or issue, and cannot actively lobby, unlike CWA. Logan George Veni wrote: Clean Water Action has been working in the Austin and San Antonio areas since at least the mid-1980s. They have worked to lobby government and agencies, and work cooperatively with other green groups to prevent water degradation. I haven't seen them much in the past 10 years and don't know if the organization crashed and is now recovering or if it simply got diverted to other projects in other areas. George From: bgillegi...@gmail.commailto:bgillegi...@gmail.com [mailto:bgillegi...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Gill Edigar Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 12:39 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.commailto:texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] Change of Subject--Clean Water RE: Clean Water Action A few months ago a fellow came by the house representing an outfit called 'Clean Water Action' ostensibly soliciting funds to promote awareness of and promoting lobbying for clean water in some form or fashion. Since clean water is a current topic of interest in South Austin and other parts of the world it would be a good thing to hype if one wanted to make a few bucks from folks with good environmental intentions but who haven't the time to keep up with every environmental interest group that comes along. I gave them a few bucks and signed their petition and filled out a personal data card. A few days ago I got a phone call from them asking for a pretty good slug of money. I asked for more information. A letter followed but with nebulous details. Does anybody have any knowledge of these guys? Where do they fit in with SOS, the City of Austin, the various water conservation districts that some of our cavers work at? Can anybody cite me any references of their good work? Etc, etc? If they're on the up-and-up I want to support them, but I've never heard of them before
