Re: RE: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
Thank you, Ms. Vice Chair On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 2:57 PM, ellie :) wrote: > Keep up the good work, Beer Boy. > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Charles Goldsmith > wrote: >> >> Joe, I I'm going speak to one thing here, since I administer and run >> both (and the same) that you mention here. >> >> When I took over CaveTex, Bill handed me the reins, membership list >> and website. I only updated a few instructions on the site, but left >> it the same as he had it. Yes, it has a disclaimer on it about it not >> being the official list for TSA or any other group. >> >> I think the majority of the CaveTex membership wants it this way, >> while TSA members are a large part of the CaveTex members, there are >> many here who aren't. >> >> If the TSA wants its own list for updates, member talk, etc, I'd be >> happy to set one up, but to be honest, I don't think its necessary. >> TSA doesn't have anything to hide from non-members. >> >> Do I take pride in not having CaveTex as the "official" TSA voice? >> No, and it wasn't meant that way I don't think. I'm a proud (and >> vocal) member of TSA, TCMA, NSS and few other organizations. >> >> Charles >> CaveTex list administrator flunky >> >> >> On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:31 AM, wrote: >> > Hey Mark - >> > >> > *TexasCavers.com and CaveTex before it seemed to take pride in not being >> > affiliated with TSA. >> >> - >> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com >> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com >> > >
Re: RE: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
Keep up the good work, Beer Boy. On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Charles Goldsmith wrote: > Joe, I I'm going speak to one thing here, since I administer and run > both (and the same) that you mention here. > > When I took over CaveTex, Bill handed me the reins, membership list > and website. I only updated a few instructions on the site, but left > it the same as he had it. Yes, it has a disclaimer on it about it not > being the official list for TSA or any other group. > > I think the majority of the CaveTex membership wants it this way, > while TSA members are a large part of the CaveTex members, there are > many here who aren't. > > If the TSA wants its own list for updates, member talk, etc, I'd be > happy to set one up, but to be honest, I don't think its necessary. > TSA doesn't have anything to hide from non-members. > > Do I take pride in not having CaveTex as the "official" TSA voice? > No, and it wasn't meant that way I don't think. I'm a proud (and > vocal) member of TSA, TCMA, NSS and few other organizations. > > Charles > CaveTex list administrator flunky > > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:31 AM, wrote: > > Hey Mark - > > > > *TexasCavers.com and CaveTex before it seemed to take pride in not being > > affiliated with TSA. > > - > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com > To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com > For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com > >
Re: RE: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
I was specifically referencing Mr. White who ran the list when I started. The TSA offered assistance once or twice and was politely declined. Bill Bentley must have just kept the same wording much like you did. Joe On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Charles Goldsmith wrote: > Joe, I I'm going speak to one thing here, since I administer and run > both (and the same) that you mention here. > > When I took over CaveTex, Bill handed me the reins, membership list > and website. I only updated a few instructions on the site, but left > it the same as he had it. Yes, it has a disclaimer on it about it not > being the official list for TSA or any other group. > > I think the majority of the CaveTex membership wants it this way, > while TSA members are a large part of the CaveTex members, there are > many here who aren't. > > If the TSA wants its own list for updates, member talk, etc, I'd be > happy to set one up, but to be honest, I don't think its necessary. > TSA doesn't have anything to hide from non-members. > > Do I take pride in not having CaveTex as the "official" TSA voice? > No, and it wasn't meant that way I don't think. I'm a proud (and > vocal) member of TSA, TCMA, NSS and few other organizations. > > Charles > CaveTex list administrator flunky > > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:31 AM, wrote: > > Hey Mark - > > > > *TexasCavers.com and CaveTex before it seemed to take pride in not being > > affiliated with TSA. >
Re: RE: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
Joe, I I'm going speak to one thing here, since I administer and run both (and the same) that you mention here. When I took over CaveTex, Bill handed me the reins, membership list and website. I only updated a few instructions on the site, but left it the same as he had it. Yes, it has a disclaimer on it about it not being the official list for TSA or any other group. I think the majority of the CaveTex membership wants it this way, while TSA members are a large part of the CaveTex members, there are many here who aren't. If the TSA wants its own list for updates, member talk, etc, I'd be happy to set one up, but to be honest, I don't think its necessary. TSA doesn't have anything to hide from non-members. Do I take pride in not having CaveTex as the "official" TSA voice? No, and it wasn't meant that way I don't think. I'm a proud (and vocal) member of TSA, TCMA, NSS and few other organizations. Charles CaveTex list administrator flunky On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:31 AM, wrote: > Hey Mark - > > *TexasCavers.com and CaveTex before it seemed to take pride in not being > affiliated with TSA.
RE: RE: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
Welcome back, Karen! Now, if we could only get Ediger to rejoin! There's no more turmoil than normal going on. I just had to throw a rock at the hornets nest last week with my tales of woe, as it was too quiet and I was feeling the creative juices flowing, thanks in part to having completed reading Kinky Friedman's Guide To Texas Etiquette and currently reading another of his books, Spanking Watson. Plus, we needed to publicize the TSA Winter meeting next month (Sunday, January 10th at 9 AM at the Conference Center at CBSP). So you all have played into my diabolical plan! The hard copy of the TC won't be going away, as there's too much interest in keeping it and several of our college subscribers want it that way. Two-tiered or not two-tiered, I see that as being the question. Come to CBSP in January to see how that pans out. We need and appreciate every caver, even the ones of varying and differing opinions! Later, Mark From: Karen Perry [mailto:txcavem...@yahoo.com] Sent: Mon 12/14/2009 12:47 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: RE: RE: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member Well said. I am in total agreement!! For many years now I have refused to rejoin TSA due to several issues.I moved to NM in April this year and wanted to keep in touch with Texas caving so I recently re-upped my membership. What I have found is once again differences of opinion causing conflict within the organization. It almost seems as though TSA is cursed with some kind of continual turmol. TSA should and NEEDS to keep hard copies of the Caver for many excellent reason that have been better stated by folks like Mark & Jim. So I say dittoI want a hard copy. Karen
RE: RE: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
Well said. I am in total agreement!! For many years now I have refused to rejoin TSA due to several issues.I moved to NM in April this year and wanted to keep in touch with Texas caving so I recently re-upped my membership. What I have found is once again differences of opinion causing conflict within the organization. It almost seems as though TSA is cursed with some kind of continual turmol. TSA should and NEEDS to keep hard copies of the Caver for many excellent reason that have been better stated by folks like Mark & Jim. So I say dittoI want a hard copy. Karen --Joe, I enjoyed reading this post about the various projects of the state’s caving groups, From: jran...@gmail.com [mailto:jran...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 10:31 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: RE: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member Hey Mark - In addition to being a current TCMA Board Member and Officer I have also been the TSA Vice President, Treasurer and Secretary and served in multiple grotto officer positions. I am not trying to attack or discredit anyone's hard work and certaily not shock and dismay anyone. I appreciate what everyone does and have done much more shocking things than a one word email. I was also sitting right beside Ellie on a couch discussing options for things to do at Spring Convention when I responded to her email. The Items you mentioned are quite good but I can't help but wonder what unique things the TSA provides me besides a great caving magazine? This is the same issue I struggled with when I was an officer. *TCC is bailing out the convention and honestly replicates it at their big winter event with talks and caving. Might not be quite as good but if it were the only one I bet it would grow. *TCR throws one hell of a party without politics or much TSA support (aside from running registration so TSA can gather memberships). I do believe TCR is explicitly prohibited from merging with TSA and has bailed TSA out financially on more than one occasion. *The land fund donation to TCMA came from NSS seed money from hosting the 94 convention. The TSA decided it would make a nice contribution to TCMA because it was not growing much under TSA and was a bit of a hassle. *It was quite nice of TSA to help refurbish the Honey Creek shaft. Our grotto put it in during the 80's and many grottos donate money to keep the tractor working and maintain the ranch. It helps but is not unique. *TSA projects exist nicely on their own. CBSP would continue without TSA, probably in a different form. The new Amistad project is run through the TSS? The Rancho Diana project in SA is just one caver. The Austin group is working a huge cave ranch near spring branch. etc. *TexasCavers.com and CaveTex before it seemed to take pride in not being affiliated with TSA. *The NSS runs the WNS fund and many grottos including several I belong to contributed. I'm not sure what unique benefit the TSA provides me other than a magazine with a membership and fellowship opportunities. This is not necessarily a bad thing and thankfully for everyone is just my two cents. Joe On Dec 14, 2009 7:16am, mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: > > > Some of the other items the > TSA has supported: > > > > > > * A sizeable donation to the NSS for their > White Nose Syndrome Rapid Response Effort. > > > > * Purchase and refurbishment of quite a lot > of survey equipment used around the state for various projects. > > > > * A huge donation to the TCMA towards the > payoff of the Punkin and Deep cave purchase. > > > > > > Plus, many other smaller projects that are > listed in the TSA Meeting minutes. > > > > > > (Joe, I'm rather shocked and dismayed you > would ask this. You're a board member of the TCMA and were present when we > conducted the votes on all of the above items). 8^(> > > > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > From: Lyndon Tiu > [mailto:l...@alumni.sfu.ca] > Sent: Sun 12/13/2009 5:50 PM > To: > texascavers@texascavers.com > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a > Digital Online Member > > > > > > ellie :) wrote: > > The TSA membership fees cover much > more than the cost of The Caver > > Joe Ranzau wrote: > > > Like? > > > > Sending a few deserving cavers from other countries to the > ICS, the TSA > paid for their registration. > > -- > Lyndon > Tiu > > - > Visit > our website: http://texascavers.com > To > unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com > For additional > commands, e-mail: > texascavers-h...@texascavers.com > > > > > >
RE: RE: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
Joe, I enjoyed reading this post about the various projects of the state's caving groups, past and present. As I have done before on this subject, I will take this opportunity to inject my two cents. The enjoyment I get from receiving (electronically) and reading The Caver is itself worth the dues paid. But, this is greatly overshadowed by the personal enjoyment of the camaraderie at events and gatherings with cavers who for the most part are TSA members. The good times had at these events would not be possible without the planning and hard work of the officers of TSA, TCMA and the volunteers of these groups. VIVA TSA! Fritz From: jran...@gmail.com [mailto:jran...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 10:31 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: RE: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member Hey Mark - In addition to being a current TCMA Board Member and Officer I have also been the TSA Vice President, Treasurer and Secretary and served in multiple grotto officer positions. I am not trying to attack or discredit anyone's hard work and certaily not shock and dismay anyone. I appreciate what everyone does and have done much more shocking things than a one word email. I was also sitting right beside Ellie on a couch discussing options for things to do at Spring Convention when I responded to her email. The Items you mentioned are quite good but I can't help but wonder what unique things the TSA provides me besides a great caving magazine? This is the same issue I struggled with when I was an officer. *TCC is bailing out the convention and honestly replicates it at their big winter event with talks and caving. Might not be quite as good but if it were the only one I bet it would grow. *TCR throws one hell of a party without politics or much TSA support (aside from running registration so TSA can gather memberships). I do believe TCR is explicitly prohibited from merging with TSA and has bailed TSA out financially on more than one occasion. *The land fund donation to TCMA came from NSS seed money from hosting the 94 convention. The TSA decided it would make a nice contribution to TCMA because it was not growing much under TSA and was a bit of a hassle. *It was quite nice of TSA to help refurbish the Honey Creek shaft. Our grotto put it in during the 80's and many grottos donate money to keep the tractor working and maintain the ranch. It helps but is not unique. *TSA projects exist nicely on their own. CBSP would continue without TSA, probably in a different form. The new Amistad project is run through the TSS? The Rancho Diana project in SA is just one caver. The Austin group is working a huge cave ranch near spring branch. etc. *TexasCavers.com and CaveTex before it seemed to take pride in not being affiliated with TSA. *The NSS runs the WNS fund and many grottos including several I belong to contributed. I'm not sure what unique benefit the TSA provides me other than a magazine with a membership and fellowship opportunities. This is not necessarily a bad thing and thankfully for everyone is just my two cents. Joe On Dec 14, 2009 7:16am, mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: > > > Some of the other items the > TSA has supported: > > > > > > * A sizeable donation to the NSS for their > White Nose Syndrome Rapid Response Effort. > > > > * Purchase and refurbishment of quite a lot > of survey equipment used around the state for various projects. > > > > * A huge donation to the TCMA towards the > payoff of the Punkin and Deep cave purchase. > > > > > > Plus, many other smaller projects that are > listed in the TSA Meeting minutes. > > > > > > (Joe, I'm rather shocked and dismayed you > would ask this. You're a board member of the TCMA and were present when we > conducted the votes on all of the above items). 8^(> > > > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > From: Lyndon Tiu > [mailto:l...@alumni.sfu.ca] > Sent: Sun 12/13/2009 5:50 PM > To: > texascavers@texascavers.com > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a > Digital Online Member > > > > > > ellie :) wrote: > > The TSA membership fees cover much > more than the cost of The Caver > > Joe Ranzau wrote: > > > Like? > > > > Sending a few deserving cavers from other countries to the > ICS, the TSA > paid for their registration. > > -- > Lyndon > Tiu > > - > Visit > our website: http://texascavers.com > To > unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com > For additional > commands, e-mail: > texascavers-h...@texascavers.com > > > > > >
Re: RE: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
Hey Mark - In addition to being a current TCMA Board Member and Officer I have also been the TSA Vice President, Treasurer and Secretary and served in multiple grotto officer positions. I am not trying to attack or discredit anyone's hard work and certaily not shock and dismay anyone. I appreciate what everyone does and have done much more shocking things than a one word email. I was also sitting right beside Ellie on a couch discussing options for things to do at Spring Convention when I responded to her email. The Items you mentioned are quite good but I can't help but wonder what unique things the TSA provides me besides a great caving magazine? This is the same issue I struggled with when I was an officer. *TCC is bailing out the convention and honestly replicates it at their big winter event with talks and caving. Might not be quite as good but if it were the only one I bet it would grow. *TCR throws one hell of a party without politics or much TSA support (aside from running registration so TSA can gather memberships). I do believe TCR is explicitly prohibited from merging with TSA and has bailed TSA out financially on more than one occasion. *The land fund donation to TCMA came from NSS seed money from hosting the 94 convention. The TSA decided it would make a nice contribution to TCMA because it was not growing much under TSA and was a bit of a hassle. *It was quite nice of TSA to help refurbish the Honey Creek shaft. Our grotto put it in during the 80's and many grottos donate money to keep the tractor working and maintain the ranch. It helps but is not unique. *TSA projects exist nicely on their own. CBSP would continue without TSA, probably in a different form. The new Amistad project is run through the TSS? The Rancho Diana project in SA is just one caver. The Austin group is working a huge cave ranch near spring branch. etc. *TexasCavers.com and CaveTex before it seemed to take pride in not being affiliated with TSA. *The NSS runs the WNS fund and many grottos including several I belong to contributed. I'm not sure what unique benefit the TSA provides me other than a magazine with a membership and fellowship opportunities. This is not necessarily a bad thing and thankfully for everyone is just my two cents. Joe On Dec 14, 2009 7:16am, mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: Some of the other items the TSA has supported: * A sizeable donation to the NSS for their White Nose Syndrome Rapid Response Effort. * Purchase and refurbishment of quite a lot of survey equipment used around the state for various projects. * A huge donation to the TCMA towards the payoff of the Punkin and Deep cave purchase. Plus, many other smaller projects that are listed in the TSA Meeting minutes. (Joe, I'm rather shocked and dismayed you would ask this. You're a board member of the TCMA and were present when we conducted the votes on all of the above items). 8^(> Mark From: Lyndon Tiu [mailto:l...@alumni.sfu.ca] Sent: Sun 12/13/2009 5:50 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member ellie :) wrote: > The TSA membership fees cover much more than the cost of The Caver Joe Ranzau wrote: > Like? > Sending a few deserving cavers from other countries to the ICS, the TSA paid for their registration. -- Lyndon Tiu - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
