[Therion] Using autonamed station named from PocketTopo sketches incomplex projects

[Beat Heeb]

> Interesting observations on PDAs and where to store files. I was aware
that PocketTopo writes backup copies of the data file in use to the memory
card, but I thought it cleaned these up when you saved the file (or maybe it
is when you open a new file or close PocketTopo). I have never noticed my
PDA memory cards littered with back-up files. Just seen one instance on the
card when PocketTopo is running. So on that basis I assumed that the
auto-backup feature will only save you if PocketTopo crashes or the PDA was
destroyed (or battery ran flat) while in the middle of surveying. Once you
finish and close the project (or switch to a different file in PocketTopo
which I often do on a trip when working on large projects with several areas
active) then you lose any auto-backup of the file you were last working on.
If it is not on the memory card and the PDA then gets damaged (in transit in
the cave rather than while in active use) then you would lose the data if
only stored on the PDA internal memory.



The main idea is indeed to recover from crashes during surveying. If a
backup file is found during startup of the program, it is reopened
automatically. So normally you do not even notice the crash.

However, the backup files are not immediately removed when PocketTopo is
closed or another file opened, instead they are renamed from "~back*.top" to
"backup/~back*.top". This allows to recover a file even if PocketTopo is
already closed or the next survey is ongoing. This works until the next time
PocketTopo is closed or another file is opened and recovery must be done
manually, there is no automatic access to the backup/* files.

When you finish a file and start working in another area, I recommend to
manually copy the file to the external card, just to be sure.



Regards



Beat





From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] On Behalf
Of Footleg
Sent: Sunday, 16 June, 2013 00:04
To: List for Therion users
Subject: Re: [Therion] Using autonamed station named from PocketTopo
sketches incomplex projects



Hi Bruce,



Interesting observations on PDAs and where to store files. I was aware that
PocketTopo writes backup copies of the data file in use to the memory card,
but I thought it cleaned these up when you saved the file (or maybe it is
when you open a new file or close PocketTopo). I have never noticed my PDA
memory cards littered with back-up files. Just seen one instance on the card
when PocketTopo is running. So on that basis I assumed that the auto-backup
feature will only save you if PocketTopo crashes or the PDA was destroyed
(or battery ran flat) while in the middle of surveying. Once you finish and
close the project (or switch to a different file in PocketTopo which I often
do on a trip when working on large projects with several areas active) then
you lose any auto-backup of the file you were last working on. If it is not
on the memory card and the PDA then gets damaged (in transit in the cave
rather than while in active use) then you would lose the data if only stored
on the PDA internal memory.



I always take my cards out to copy data, but then my PDA is not sealed so it
is not a problem. Instead I use the PDA inside a waterproof Aquapaq case
which I can draw through but makes everything completely submersible (to 5m
it is claimed, but mainly I just wash it in a stream if too muddy).



I am working on a system to organise data for a larger cave, mixing
historical data and recent data. I'll try to document it once I have
determined that it really works. I have spent much more time working out how
best to do things than actually drawing anything yet, as I want to be sure I
am doing it right before spending the next few years drawing!



Footleg

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[Therion] Using autonamed station named from PocketTopo sketches incomplex projects

[Bruce]

Footleg

>., but I thought it cleaned these up when you saved the file (or maybe it
is when you open a new file or close PocketTopo). I have never noticed my
PDA memory cards littered with back-up files. Just seen one instance on the
card when PocketTopo is running. So on that basis I assumed that the
auto-backup feature will only save you if PocketTopo crashes or the PDA was
destroyed (or battery ran flat) while in the middle of surveying. Once you
finish and close the project (or switch to a different file in PocketTopo
which I often do on a trip when working on large projects with several areas
active) then you lose any auto-backup of the file you were last working on.
If it is not on the memory card and the PDA then gets damaged (in transit in
the cave rather than while in active use) then you would lose the data if
only stored on the PDA internal memory.

Yes, there are only two backup files, and they are both of the file
currently or last worked on.

We do end up with multiple files worked on in any one survey trip, so that
is a flaw with working directly on the built in storage.  Perhaps I should
manually copy previous files to removable media as I create a new file!



I use old slow cards (they are free and plentiful) so am reluctant to work
off them directly - pockettopo is slow enough as it is with large datasets
(yes I know there is a workaround - I just like to keep the workflow and
data structure simple).



>I am working on a system to organise data for a larger cave, mixing
historical data and recent data. I'll try to document it once I have
determined that it really works. I have spent much more time working out how
best to do things than actually drawing anything yet, as I want to be sure I
am doing it right before spending the next few years drawing!

Fantastic, there is no hurry, as it is unlikely I will beat you to it.



And in my previous post I forgot to finish one of the sentences.

>Bruce's example also includes author and copyright options on the scraps.
How does Therion use these? Or are they just allowed on the scrap options
but not used in any generated output?

For scraps, copyright information is displayed in pdf headers in the same
way as surveyors and explorers (by default I think) and the author is
reported as 'drawn by' in the same way. 

For survey centerlines, as far as I know there is no way to get therion to
report the author, but as the Therion book says, the information is
accepted.  I think it should be included in the database export, but it
seems to date that it is not.  I notice in 5.3.11 the database export now
includes some map information, so perhaps the centerline authors can be
included soon :-)

Bruce



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[Therion] How to mark station with labels and make them appear in plan and extended projection

[Bruce]

>maybe it's a silly question, maybe not: It would be useful to have a
station point labelled with some text and get the label appear either in
plan than in extended projection.

Marco, there are no silly questions, except the one's not asked.

I'm not sure I understand your question though.  I presume you have tried,
in a layout;



 -debug station-names



This will label every station included in a scrap drawing (I think - your
comment below has made me doubt this-I'm just going from memory- maybe it
only labels those stations included as a 'survey' within a map definition?)



>I made many attempt to achieve this but I cannot see any label unless I
define a "label" point in 2 .th2 scraps (one for the plan, another for the
extended projection) and include them in the map. I know it is possible to
label a station in the centerline file but the label does not appear in
projections.

I presume that rather than labeling every station you want to tell therion
which station(s) to label.

If you insert a 'point station-name' in your scrap, xtherion creates a
statement line this in your scrap;



point 5708.0 1728.0 station-name -align r -scale xs



It will insert a label with text matching the nearest station's name.



>I was searching if there is any simpler way to get those labels visible
than defining 2 scraps.

If by two scraps you mean, one scrap for plan, one scrap for elevation, (one
scrap for each other projection) then of course this is the case.  If you
want a cartographed drawing for each projection, then of course you must
make separate drawings of walls, cave features labels etc, one for each
projection.  (Early in my therion days I tried using the same scrap drawing
for elevation and extended projections.  One must make a copy of the file or
use revise to change the projection for the second use.  The results are not
usually that good so, except for a very straight cave, I don't recommend
it-I may have mentioned it in the wiki somewhere - I forget).



Or perhaps I have misunderstood the intent of your question?



Thanks,

Marco 

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[Therion] Using autonamed station named from PocketTopo sketches incomplex projects

[Bruce]

> Thinking there must be a solution to this, I searched the wiki, and found
it (Thanks Bruce!). 

Thanks Footleg.  In truth my wiki edits are selfishly motivated.  They are
my personal reminders, and the wiki is a good place to store them.  Also an
attempt to entice new users, but that has not been successful (yet) in my
local community.  And also hopefully people will point out when I have not
found the best way to do things.



>I can use the -station-names option on my scraps in the sketch to say what
the full name of the station should be. But my station names do not need a
prefix (it is already set from the xvi file by the editor) and with a bit of
experimentation I discovered that to omit the prefix I have to put a pair of
double-quotes as the prefix. This works, but is there a neater way to do it?
e.g.  -station-names "" @ShortDryWay.swildons

means my station with -name 3.3 will be treated as 3.3 at ShortDryWay.swildons
in the scrap and this is what my station in the complete cave centreline
data is named so it works. It just seems unintuitive to have to give a blank
prefix this way. 

The way I was advised to do it way back was with square brackets []. Not
sure if there is a reason why they are preferred over "".  I should have
made that clearer in the drawing checklist page.  I have hinted at it here.
http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php/paperless?s[]=station
<http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php/paperless?s%5b%5d=station%5b%5d=na
mes> []=names Search for [



>Bruce's example also includes author and copyright options on the scraps.
How does Therion use these? Or are they just allowed on the scrap options
but not used in any generated output?

Copyright information is displayed in pdf headers in the same way as
surveyors and explorers if you 





>While reading Bruce's excellent advice pages on data structures I spotted
some places where more recent developments or ways I work make things easier
since the section was written. 

I am deeply embarrassed that I have not been able to finish the
'organisation' pages.  It is because I have realized that the system I have
adopted does not scale well to large systems.  The realization is coming to
me that it is good in some circumstances, but I need to clarify what those
circumstances are.  I have an inkling of a better system, but I need to put
it to some use before I write more (and find time.).  Still, I think some of
the finer detail remains valid regardless of the overall way data is
organized.  People are welcome to add to and improve 'my' pages.



>So I've added a tip on getting data off PDA via memory card, and a link to
Andrew's TopParser application to this wiki page:
http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php/paperless#data_transfer_from_pocketto
po_to_therion

Thanks Footleg.  I think your advice re the memory card is not the way
intended by Beat.  From memory the better way is to store data to main
memory and make sure you have a memory card installed.  Pockettopo will
automatically save backups regularly to the memory card, and makes sure it
is never writing two files simultaneously.  That way, only one of the pair
of files may be being written to, and thus potentially corrupt at the
instant the pda is smashed to pieces.  Also, you have two copies of the
file, so more chance of recovery. From time to time I have checked and
opened the backup files (when the pda is in a safe place) and it seems they
are usable files created transparently without any user intervention.  (Just
make sure the pda OS recognizes there is a card installed).



Re using the memory card to transfer data. In the normal course of events,
my preference is to leave the card permanently sealed up in the device.
Plugging in a usb cable or using bluetooth is quicker and less likely to
damage the seals (Our pdas get lots of grit, mud and submersion each trip).
Granted there will be variations between devices and user preferences.



Bruce



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[Therion] How to mark station with labels and make them appear in plan and extended projection

[Marco Menchise]

Hello Bruce,
thanks for you answer. You got exactly what I meant, I needed to know if I
can have a station labelled without creating a .th2 file.

The debug station-names (layout option) generates too much output: I only
need to mark some "important" stations  and have them marked with the
*same* label in all projections. It seems I can't avoid to make at least a
scrap for every projection I need.

Thanks again,
Marco





On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 11:28 PM, Bruce  wrote:

>   >maybe it's a silly question, maybe not: It would be useful to have a
> station point labelled with some text and get the label appear either in
> plan than in extended projection.
>
> Marco, there are no silly questions, except the one’s not asked.
>
> I’m not sure I understand your question though.  I presume you have tried,
> in a layout;
>
> ** **
>
>  -debug station-names
>
> ** **
>
> This will label every station included in a scrap drawing (I think – your
> comment below has made me doubt this-I’m just going from memory- maybe it
> only labels those stations included as a ‘survey’ within a map 
> definition?)
> 
>
> ** **
>
> >I made many attempt to achieve this but I cannot see any label unless I
> define a "label" point in 2 .th2 scraps (one for the plan, another for the
> extended projection) and include them in the map. I know it is possible to
> label a station in the centerline file but the label does not appear in
> projections.
>
> I presume that rather than labeling every station you want to tell therion
> which station(s) to label.
>
> If you insert a ‘point station-name’ in your scrap, xtherion creates a
> statement line this in your scrap;
>
> ** **
>
> point 5708.0 1728.0 station-name -align r -scale xs
>
> ** **
>
> It will insert a label with text matching the nearest station’s name.
>
> ** **
>
> >I was searching if there is any simpler way to get those labels visible
> than defining 2 scraps.
>
> If by two scraps you mean, one scrap for plan, one scrap for elevation,
> (one scrap for each other projection) then of course this is the case.  If
> you want a cartographed drawing for each projection, then of course you
> must make separate drawings of walls, cave features labels etc, one for
> each projection.  (Early in my therion days I tried using the same scrap
> drawing for elevation and extended projections.  One must make a copy of
> the file or use revise to change the projection for the second use.  The
> results are not usually that good so, except for a very straight cave, I
> don’t recommend it-I may have mentioned it in the wiki somewhere – I
> forget).
>
> ** **
>
> Or perhaps I have misunderstood the intent of your question?
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks,
>
> Marco 
>
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk
> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
>
>
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[Therion] Using autonamed station named from PocketTopo sketches incomplex projects

[Footleg]

Hi Bruce,

Interesting observations on PDAs and where to store files. I was aware that
PocketTopo writes backup copies of the data file in use to the memory card,
but I thought it cleaned these up when you saved the file (or maybe it is
when you open a new file or close PocketTopo). I have never noticed my PDA
memory cards littered with back-up files. Just seen one instance on the
card when PocketTopo is running. So on that basis I assumed that the
auto-backup feature will only save you if PocketTopo crashes or the PDA was
destroyed (or battery ran flat) while in the middle of surveying. Once you
finish and close the project (or switch to a different file in PocketTopo
which I often do on a trip when working on large projects with several
areas active) then you lose any auto-backup of the file you were last
working on. If it is not on the memory card and the PDA then gets damaged
(in transit in the cave rather than while in active use) then you would
lose the data if only stored on the PDA internal memory.

I always take my cards out to copy data, but then my PDA is not sealed so
it is not a problem. Instead I use the PDA inside a waterproof Aquapaq case
which I can draw through but makes everything completely submersible (to 5m
it is claimed, but mainly I just wash it in a stream if too muddy).

I am working on a system to organise data for a larger cave, mixing
historical data and recent data. I'll try to document it once I have
determined that it really works. I have spent much more time working out
how best to do things than actually drawing anything yet, as I want to be
sure I am doing it right before spending the next few years drawing!

Footleg
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