[Therion] Current Therion for Windows version 30Mar2017

[Bruce Mutton via Therion]

An update.

The Therion v30Mar2017 update has resolved most of my Therion v13Mar2017 beta 
version issues as below;

*   Loch right-click untrapped errors   
   :FIXED
*   An error to do with ‘symbol-show point cave-station:fixed’   
:FIXED
*   Survex Loop closure consistently causing untrapped errors
:FIXED
*   Two th-config’s where Therion not able to delete a temporary folder, 
corrupting log files :UNRESOLVED

 

Bruce

 

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[Therion] Loch rotation speed

[Bruce Mutton via Therion]

Now this is getting picky I know.

 

Does anyone else find that the Loch rotation speed is about an order of
magnitude too fast?

Even on my 11 year old Windows XP machine it was way too fast, and it was
not possible to make it slow enough to usefully display a complex system, if
you were wanting to appreciate it's complexities.  I assume it's the same on
non-Windows systems.

 

Would it be possible to reset the speed range down by a factor of 10, or 16
or so?

 

On my current machine, the slowest possible rotation speed is about what I
would like the maximum possible speed to be.

 

Bruce

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Re: [Therion] Loch rotation speed

[Henry.Bennett--- via Therion]

Totally agree with this.

Also - Anyone got a "How-To" on saving Loch to a video file.  My experiments 
with screen video capture and exporting to other formats have been educational 
but unproductive.

Henry Bennett

From: Therion [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Bruce Mutton via 
Therion
Sent: 31 March 2017 09:34
To: 'List for Therion users' 
Cc: Bruce Mutton 
Subject: [Therion] Loch rotation speed

Now this is getting picky I know.

Does anyone else find that the Loch rotation speed is about an order of 
magnitude too fast?
Even on my 11 year old Windows XP machine it was way too fast, and it was not 
possible to make it slow enough to usefully display a complex system, if you 
were wanting to appreciate it's complexities.  I assume it's the same on 
non-Windows systems.

Would it be possible to reset the speed range down by a factor of 10, or 16 or 
so?

On my current machine, the slowest possible rotation speed is about what I 
would like the maximum possible speed to be.

Bruce
Dell Corporation Limited is registered in England and Wales. Company 
Registration Number: 2081369
Registered address: Dell House, The Boulevard, Cain Road, Bracknell,  
Berkshire, RG12 1LF, UK.
Company details for other Dell UK entities can be found on  www.dell.co.uk.
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[Therion] How to add authors of paper drawings, which is being digitized as therion scrap?

[Nikita Kozlov via Therion]

Consider following task:

Digitize old paper drawings of cave survey and include information
about person who did digitizing and person who did drawings on paper.

How it should be done correctly with therion th2 syntax?
Are multiply -author command within same scrap supported (Ie oldest date
corresponds to paper drawing, newest to digitising)?

With best regards,
Mykyta Kozlov.
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Re: [Therion] How to add authors of paper drawings, which is being digitized as therion scrap?

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

The author of scrap should be who digitized the map. And it is obviously only 
one person.

Authors of paper drawings should be in th file as part of - survey/centerline. 

My understanding of Therion's rules.

m.s.

On Mar 31, 2017, at 11:55 AM, Nikita Kozlov via Therion  
wrote:

Consider following task:

Digitize old paper drawings of cave survey and include information 
about person who did digitizing and person who did drawings on paper.

How it should be done correctly with therion th2 syntax?
Are multiply -author command within same scrap supported (Ie oldest date 
corresponds to paper drawing, newest to digitising)?

With best regards,
Mykyta Kozlov.
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Re: [Therion] How to add authors of paper drawings, which is being digitized as therion scrap?

[Benedikt Hallinger via Therion]

When i do this, i add an -author for the original paper plan and another one 
for myself in the scrap.
I feel the original plan author should be mentioned because its his work the 
digitalization is widely based on. Here, several persons work on one scrap 
(possible at least) and i would add my name as author to the scrap if i did 
major corrections or enhancements.
I use the author line in centerline to document who checked and finished the 
centerline data.


Am 2017-03-31 12:31, schrieb Martin Sluka via Therion:
The author of scrap should be who digitized the map. And it is obviously 
only one person.


Authors of paper drawings should be in th file as part of - 
survey/centerline.


My understanding of Therion's rules.

m.s.

On Mar 31, 2017, at 11:55 AM, Nikita Kozlov via Therion 
 wrote:



Consider following task:

Digitize old paper drawings of cave survey and include information
about person who did digitizing and person who did drawings on paper.

How it should be done correctly with therion th2 syntax?
Are multiply -author command within same scrap supported (Ie oldest date 
corresponds to paper drawing, newest to digitising)?


With best regards,
Mykyta Kozlov.
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Re: [Therion] Loch rotation speed

[Benedikt Hallinger via Therion]

May i suggest, when altering the rotation speed, please make it 
customizable. Do not enforce a static compile time min or max value but 
introduce a factor setting so each user may compensate for himself.


Am 2017-03-31 10:34, schrieb Bruce Mutton via Therion:

Now this is getting picky I know.

Does anyone else find that the Loch rotation speed is about an order of 
magnitude too fast?


Even on my 11 year old Windows XP machine it was way too fast, and it was 
not possible to make it slow enough to usefully display a complex system, if 
you were wanting to appreciate it's complexities. I assume it's the same on 
non-Windows systems.


Would it be possible to reset the speed range down by a factor of 10, or 
16 or so?


On my current machine, the slowest possible rotation speed is about what I 
would like the maximum possible speed to be.


Bruce


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Re: [Therion] How to add authors of paper drawings, which is being digitized as therion scrap?

[Nikita Kozlov via Therion]

On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 3:32 PM, Benedikt Hallinger via Therion <
therion@speleo.sk> wrote:

> When i do this, i add an -author for the original paper plan and another
> one for myself in the scrap.
>

What place exactly you add -author for paper plan? In th2 section for
raster inclusion? Is it influence legend on resulted pdfs, for example.

I meant add command "-author" to few correct places in scraps, center-lines
(did not know about that possibility, always used "team" command)
to have that information correctly interpreted, and placed onto pdf map
legend, i.e. author mentions
after words "Surveyed by" and "Drawn by".

With best regards,
Mykyta Kozlov.
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Re: [Therion] How to add authors of paper drawings, which is being digitized as therion scrap?

[Xavier Robert via Therion]

Hi,

I also faced this question several times.
- If I digitize a previous map without changing anything, I only add in 
the .th2 a -author « name of the original drawer », I do not include myself 
because I am not the author of the drawing.
- If I digitize a previous map with some changes due to my observations 
in the cave in question, I add in the th2 a -author « name of the original 
drawer » and a -author « my name », and yes, the 2 appear in the final drawing 
header.

Xavier


> Le 31 mars 2017 à 05:31, Martin Sluka via Therion  a écrit 
> :
> 
> The author of scrap should be who digitized the map. And it is obviously only 
> one person.
> 
> Authors of paper drawings should be in th file as part of - 
> survey/centerline. 
> 
> My understanding of Therion's rules.
> 
> m.s.
> 
> On Mar 31, 2017, at 11:55 AM, Nikita Kozlov via Therion  
> wrote:
> 
>> Consider following task:
>> 
>> Digitize old paper drawings of cave survey and include information 
>> about person who did digitizing and person who did drawings on paper.
>> 
>> How it should be done correctly with therion th2 syntax?
>> Are multiply -author command within same scrap supported (Ie oldest date 
>> corresponds to paper drawing, newest to digitising)?
>> 
>> With best regards,
>> Mykyta Kozlov.

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Re: [Therion] Current Therion for Windows version 13Mar2017

[Martin Budaj via Therion]

>
> One request, if the new build(s) could have the version identifier in the
> UI and /thversion variable updated; they still read 5.3.16.  Perhaps
> ‘5.3.16 13Mar2017’ or the like, would help with identifying which version I
> have active, and from which version pdf outputs were created.
>
>
>
Implemented in a form:

X.Y.Z (-MM-DD) for releases
X.Y.Z+short_commit_id (-MM-DD) for other commits subsequent to a release

Martin
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Re: [Therion] Current Therion for Windows version 13Mar2017

[Bruce Mutton via Therion]

> Implemented in a form:

 

> X.Y.Z (-MM-DD) for releases

> X.Y.Z+short_commit_id (-MM-DD) for other commits subsequent to a release

 

Nice, it works.

XTherion, Loch and /thversion

 

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[Therion] How to add authors of paper drawings, which is being digitized as therion scrap?

[Bruce Mutton via Therion]

Everyone different it seems!  Does not matter so long as each drawing team uses 
the same conventions.

For me/the team I work in, we (potentially) have an 'author  ' 
entry for each of ;

 

*.th centreline 'author  '

File creation and data entry

Data checking (maybe it is done)

Subsequent significant edits

*.th2 scrap '-author  '

Scrap creation and drawing (we treat the authors of in-cave sketches, ptopo 
drawings or pen-on-ink published maps as NOT the scrap authors)

Subsequent significant edits

 

We add acknowledgement of original maps and drawings in the map header or in a 
textbox on the pdf map.  I like Mykyta and Xavier’s approach however, and think 
I might add the original paper drawing author to scraps in future.

We tend to have one author per centreline and scrap, but not always the case.  
We do use multiple authors and dates .

 

Xavier’s comment that the authors appear in the header surprizes me.  I have 
never seen evidence that Therion does anything with the author data.

Not in pdf outputs nor in sql outputs, although looking in the Therion Book, I 
see there is some hint that they might.

It is possible that my projects are so metapost customised that I have 
inadvertently excluded their output!

And the database outputs always give me a headache, so if it is there, I may 
have missed it.

 

I would like the option of reporting the author data in outputs, so please, 
enlighten me.

 

Bruce

 

-Original Message-

Sent: Saturday, 1 April 2017 6:02 AM

Subject: Re: [Therion] How to add authors of paper drawings, which is being 
digitized as therion scrap?

 

Hi,

 

I also faced this question several times.

- If I digitize a previous map without changing anything, I 
only add in the .th2 a -author « name of the original drawer », I do not 
include myself because I am not the author of the drawing.

- If I digitize a previous map with some changes due to my 
observations in the cave in question, I add in the th2 a -author « name of the 
original drawer » and a -author « my name », and yes, the 2 appear in the final 
drawing header.

 

Xavier

 

-Original Message-
Sent: Saturday, 1 April 2017 1:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Therion] How to add authors of paper drawings, which is being 
digitized as therion scrap?

 

When i do this, i add an -author for the original paper plan and another one 
for myself in the scrap.

I feel the original plan author should be mentioned because its his work the 
digitalization is widely based on. Here, several persons work on one scrap 
(possible at least) and i would add my name as author to the scrap if i did 
major corrections or enhancements.

I use the author line in centerline to document who checked and finished the 
centerline data.

 

Benedikt

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Re: [Therion] Loch giving strange artifacts

[Benedikt Hallinger via Therion]

Hello,
sorry for not responding a while, i tried to debug this myself.
Unfortunately i was not able to detect an error in my data. The compile 
gives no warning at all and also the pdf map output looks like expected.


Fortunately i was able to reproduce it in a very simple dataset (with 
therion 5.3.15 on debian).

Please see the attached archive.

It does even happen when:
- the data is contained in one single centerline only
- the break in the map is commented out
- no map definition is present at all
- all in parallel


Is this a bug with loch?


With best regards,
Beni



Am 2017-03-27 10:55, schrieb Footleg:
Possibly your walls are inside out. Do the walls appear and vanish as you 
rotate the model? That is a sure sign some of your scrap boundaries are not 
right. Common causes are the insides of loops not flagged as outline in, or 
walls which cross other walls.


Footleg

On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 3:34 PM Benedikt Hallinger via Therion 
 wrote:



Hello,
in my loch model i get some strange artefacts.

It seems that the further-away objects are rendered in front of the
nearer-in-front objects.
I would expect that the passages far away would be covered by those in 
the
front of the camera (as is the case where i did not yet have scraps and 
only

the centerline is present... look at the screenshot)

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2.test.tar.gz
Description: Binary data
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Re: [Therion] Loch giving strange artifacts

[Bruce Mutton via Therion]

I'm not seeing any problem with the 2.lox file you supplied, and no problem 
when compiled with the latest  ca1aa8f experimental version of Therion.

On windows 10, as perfect a lox file as I’ve ever seen!

Maybe it is an Debian 5.3.15 thing?

Bruce





 

-Original Message-
From: Therion [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Benedikt 
Hallinger via Therion
Sent: Saturday, 1 April 2017 9:46 AM
To: Footleg 
Cc: Benedikt Hallinger ; List for Therion users 

Subject: Re: [Therion] Loch giving strange artifacts

 

Hello,

sorry for not responding a while, i tried to debug this myself.

Unfortunately i was not able to detect an error in my data. The compile gives 
no warning at all and also the pdf map output looks like expected.

 

Fortunately i was able to reproduce it in a very simple dataset (with therion 
5.3.15 on debian).

Please see the attached archive.

 

It does even happen when:

- the data is contained in one single centerline only

- the break in the map is commented out

- no map definition is present at all

- all in parallel

 

 

Is this a bug with loch?

 

 

With best regards,

Beni

 

 

 

Am 2017-03-27 10:55, schrieb Footleg:

> Possibly your walls are inside out. Do the walls appear and vanish as 

> you rotate the model? That is a sure sign some of your scrap 

> boundaries are not right. Common causes are the insides of loops not 

> flagged as outline in, or walls which cross other walls.

> 

> Footleg

> 

> On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 3:34 PM Benedikt Hallinger via Therion 

> <  therion@speleo.sk [3]> wrote:

> 

>> Hello,

>> in my loch model i get some strange artefacts.

>> 

>> It seems that the further-away objects are rendered in front of the 

>> nearer-in-front objects.

>> I would expect that the passages far away would be covered by those 

>> in the front of the camera (as is the case where i did not yet have 

>> scraps and only the centerline is present... look at the screenshot)

>> 

>> What am i doing wrong?___

>> Therion mailing list

>>   Therion@speleo.sk [1]

>>   
>> https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion [2]

> 

> 

> Links:

> --

> [1]   mailto:Therion@speleo.sk

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[Therion] How to add authors of paper drawings, which is being digitized as therion scrap?

[Bruce Mutton via Therion]

Thanks Xavier, nice example files!

 

Oh dear, brain fade on my part. 

Of course the scrap authors show up as cartographers or ‘drawn by’ in the pdf 
outputs.  I use it successfully all the time.

 

In the thread below I was associating ‘author’ with ‘centreline author’, and it 
is these that do not appear in any outputs.

I added a centreline author to Xavier’s example, and that author did not appear 
in the Cartografía or Drawn by list in the output.

That is the correct behaviour, as the centreline author is not the cartographer.

 

However I think it should be an option to export the centreline author to all 
appropriate outputs, and for that matter the instruments as well, which I think 
is also not available via any outputs.

 

Then maybe we could acknowledge all roles in the process;

explo-team “Explorers”

team “Surveyors”

instrument compass “Compass identifiers” for example

instrument instruments “Distos” for example

etc

centreline author “Data Processors” ?or some other name

scrap author “Cartographers”

 

I just braved a sql output (it’s not really that hard) and added a couple of 
explorers, surveyors, centreline authors and scrap authors to Xaviers example.

Only the explorers and surveyors appear in there.  No sign of the centreline or 
scrap authors.

 

(Sorry Benedikt, I think I’ve highjacked your post)

 

Maybe there is a need for a list output for all people entered in Therion 
objects, and another one for all instruments entered in Therion centrelines?

 

Bruce

 

From: Therion [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Xavier Robert via 
Therion
Sent: Saturday, 1 April 2017 9:40 AM
To: Therion 
Cc: Xavier Robert 
Subject: Re: [Therion] How to add authors of paper drawings, which is being 
digitized as therion scrap?

 

Hi Bruce,

 

I just checked, and yes, this is working for me. 

I send in attachement a complete exemple of what I use with a small and 
uninteresting cave. 

 

There is only 1 survey with 1 centerline. 

The centerline is defined by: centerline -title « Inca » (I have no 
author there)

But I added different team and explo-team names

 

There is only 1 scrap, that is defined by:

scrap incaXR1 -projection plan -author 2016 "Xavier Robert" -author 
2017 "Test_author Robert » …

 

As you can see in the *.thconfig, I also tweaked the headers. I didn’t touch 
anything about scraps’ authors for the header definition. However in the output 
pdf, I get (in spanish there, see pdf in the zip file) :

Exploración: Jean-Sébastien Moquet, Xavier Robert 2016
Espeleometría: Jean-Sébastien Moquet, Xavier Robert 2016
Cartografía: Test.author Robert, Xavier Robert 2016 – 2017
Club(s): Espeleo Club Andino (ECA), Groupe Spéléologique Vulcain 

If I do an export database -o data.sql, I do not find the authors of the 
drawing in the table (I am not used to work with SQL databases, I may be wrong 
in my export and/or reading…).

 

Cheers,

 

Xav

 

 

Le 31 mars 2017 à 14:55, Bruce Mutton via Therion mailto:therion@speleo.sk> > a écrit :

 

Everyone different it seems!  Does not matter so long as each drawing team uses 
the same conventions.

For me/the team I work in, we (potentially) have an 'author  ' 
entry for each of ;

 

*.th centreline 'author  '

File creation and data entry

Data checking (maybe it is done)

Subsequent significant edits

*.th2 scrap '-author  '

Scrap creation and drawing (we treat the authors of in-cave sketches, ptopo 
drawings or pen-on-ink published maps as NOT the scrap authors)

Subsequent significant edits

 

We add acknowledgement of original maps and drawings in the map header or in a 
textbox on the pdf map.  I like Mykyta and Xavier’s approach however, and think 
I might add the original paper drawing author to scraps in future.

We tend to have one author per centreline and scrap, but not always the case.  
We do use multiple authors and dates .

 

Xavier’s comment that the authors appear in the header surprizes me.  I have 
never seen evidence that Therion does anything with the author data.

Not in pdf outputs nor in sql outputs, although looking in the Therion Book, I 
see there is some hint that they might.

It is possible that my projects are so metapost customised that I have 
inadvertently excluded their output!

And the database outputs always give me a headache, so if it is there, I may 
have missed it.

 

I would like the option of reporting the author data in outputs, so please, 
enlighten me.

 

Bruce

 

-Original Message-

Sent: Saturday, 1 April 2017 6:02 AM

Subject: Re: [Therion] How to add authors of paper drawings, which is being 
digitized as therion scrap?

 

Hi,

 

I also faced this question several times.

- If I digitize a previous map without changing anything, I 
only add in the .th2 a -author « name of the original drawer », I do not 
include myself because I am not the author of the drawing.