Re: [Therion] Minimum symbol scale

[Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion]

On 28/06/2021 20:33, Bruce Mutton wrote:
> Yes, I wouldn't mind some more refinement.
> Here are my comments from a while back (some of which may have been resolved 
> since).
> [Therion] min-symbol-scale and fonts-setup 
> https://www.mail-archive.com/therion@speleo.sk/msg06651.html

This looks like a very familiar situation indeed.

Perhaps we can work out an appropriate syntax, and see if someone might
possibly take it on.

I know that I suggested one format below, but thinking about it more,
this might be better:
min-symbol-scale  [ ]

That means no fussing around with the parameter ordering. But it is then
inconsistent with symbol-colour.

> [Therion] scaling line ornamentation - metapost 
> https://www.mail-archive.com/therion@speleo.sk/msg07032.html 
> [Therion] next level therion symbol strategy 
> https://www.mail-archive.com/therion@speleo.sk/msg07860.html

Ah yes, some excellent proposals you had there. Would be nice to revisit
those ideas. I wonder if devs can be bribed ;)
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[Therion] Minimum symbol scale

[Bruce Mutton]

Yes, I wouldn't mind some more refinement.
Here are my comments from a while back (some of which may have been resolved 
since).
[Therion] min-symbol-scale and fonts-setup 
https://www.mail-archive.com/therion@speleo.sk/msg06651.html
[Therion] scaling line ornamentation - metapost 
https://www.mail-archive.com/therion@speleo.sk/msg07032.html 
[Therion] next level therion symbol strategy 
https://www.mail-archive.com/therion@speleo.sk/msg07860.html

Not much help, but hopefully adding something meaningful to the conversation.

Bruce


-Original Message-
From: Therion  On Behalf Of Tarquin Wilton-Jones via 
Therion
Sent: Tuesday, 29 June 2021 01:40
To: Therion 
Subject: [Therion] Minimum symbol scale

Hi folks,

There is a setting:
min-symbol-scale M

That allows you to hide all symbols of S or XS scale. That's useful when you 
want to show only the most important symbols in a low resolution survey.

But is there a way to control this differently only for certain symbols?
Eg. I want to be able to hide all "point label" symbols of scale M-XS but I 
don't want all my cave walls or breakdown choke symbols to disappear (which are 
at the default M scale).

Essentially I want something like this:

min-symbol-scale point label L
min-symbol-scale point anchor:foo M

Some of this I can of course do with MetaPost. But labels (the thing I care 
most about) don't allow you to easily redefine the MetaPost macro ... or at 
least the syntax is so weird that I don't understand it.

Thanks for any advice.

Tarquin
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[Therion] Minimum symbol scale

[Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion]

Hi folks,

There is a setting:
min-symbol-scale M

That allows you to hide all symbols of S or XS scale. That's useful when
you want to show only the most important symbols in a low resolution survey.

But is there a way to control this differently only for certain symbols?
Eg. I want to be able to hide all "point label" symbols of scale M-XS
but I don't want all my cave walls or breakdown choke symbols to
disappear (which are at the default M scale).

Essentially I want something like this:

min-symbol-scale point label L
min-symbol-scale point anchor:foo M

Some of this I can of course do with MetaPost. But labels (the thing I
care most about) don't allow you to easily redefine the MetaPost macro
... or at least the syntax is so weird that I don't understand it.

Thanks for any advice.

Tarquin
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Re: [Therion] How to morph sketches

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

And you may prepare two versions of morphed scraps - one with 50% transparency 
and move them to correct position and then replace it wit no transparent using 
coordinates. You may use screenshots, ..

The increase quality of morphed sketches enhance contrast of sketches. 

Martin

Odesláno z iPhonu

28. 6. 2021 v 12:30, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion :

>> On 28/06/2021 09:58, Martin Sluka via Therion wrote:
>> 28. 6. 2021 v 10:17, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion > >:
>>> 
>>> Ah yes, doing it as separate scraps is a lot less messy. Though in the
>>> end you then probably have to keep using multiple scraps, even if the
>>> idea was to warp it into a nice shape so you can draw it up as a single
>>> scrap.
>> 
>> Anyway you may use all morphed sketches in one final scrap (Torsten).
>> Take care if you add another xvi file it will go above of recent one. So
>> the way is to switch visibility of mesh (xvi itself) to off and move
>> morphed sketch (xvi - IMGn) to correct position: select that sketch in
>> "Background images" field, check coordinates of cursor (lover right
>> corner of map editor window) where you want to place it, write those
>> coordinates to fields next of “Move to” and press Enter. Manually move
>> sketch to exact position. There is the bug in Therion that th2 file will
>> remember only 3 such positions. For fourth and next you should repeat
>> that last step after you open th2 file again.
>> 
>> To move to your sketch is the shortest way to click on point or line in
>> “Object section” - on the top of sections menu.
> 
> So that would be a solution to Bill's problem, of combining separate
> surveys of a single room into one scrap. (Think someone mentioned this
> in that thread too...)
> 
> Just need to set the -name property correctly for each survey station
> (like 1@subsurvey1) if you end up using the resulting .th2 from a parent
> survey that has access to all of the subsurvey data.
> 
> And if they are paper drawings, perhaps morph (warp) them first using
> the instructions from earlier mails in this thread.
> 
> This has been a hugely useful learning exercise :)
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Re: [Therion] How to morph sketches

[Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion]

On 28/06/2021 09:58, Martin Sluka via Therion wrote:
> 28. 6. 2021 v 10:17, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion  >:
>>
>> Ah yes, doing it as separate scraps is a lot less messy. Though in the
>> end you then probably have to keep using multiple scraps, even if the
>> idea was to warp it into a nice shape so you can draw it up as a single
>> scrap.
> 
> Anyway you may use all morphed sketches in one final scrap (Torsten).
> Take care if you add another xvi file it will go above of recent one. So
> the way is to switch visibility of mesh (xvi itself) to off and move
> morphed sketch (xvi - IMGn) to correct position: select that sketch in
> "Background images" field, check coordinates of cursor (lover right
> corner of map editor window) where you want to place it, write those
> coordinates to fields next of “Move to” and press Enter. Manually move
> sketch to exact position. There is the bug in Therion that th2 file will
> remember only 3 such positions. For fourth and next you should repeat
> that last step after you open th2 file again.
> 
> To move to your sketch is the shortest way to click on point or line in
> “Object section” - on the top of sections menu.

So that would be a solution to Bill's problem, of combining separate
surveys of a single room into one scrap. (Think someone mentioned this
in that thread too...)

Just need to set the -name property correctly for each survey station
(like 1@subsurvey1) if you end up using the resulting .th2 from a parent
survey that has access to all of the subsurvey data.

And if they are paper drawings, perhaps morph (warp) them first using
the instructions from earlier mails in this thread.

This has been a hugely useful learning exercise :)
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Re: [Therion] How to morph sketches

[Torsten Schnitter via Therion]

Thanks a lot for these examples and explanation.
Now I got it to work. :-)
(you never stop learning about Therion...)

This last article from Marco is realy worth a read.
Great stuff!

cheers,
Torsten

> Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion  hat am 28.06.2021 10:17 
> geschrieben:
> 
>  
> > You are right. It could be very useful in simple passages. But in your
> > case I’ll divide sketch to three pieces first and try to use “extra”
> > points when LRUD are available.
> 
> Ah yes, doing it as separate scraps is a lot less messy. Though in the
> end you then probably have to keep using multiple scraps, even if the
> idea was to warp it into a nice shape so you can draw it up as a single
> scrap.
> 
> I tested out the "sketch-warp" option (that goes directly in the
> .thconfig file, not inside the layout). "plaquette" gave a very good
> resulting shape for my demo case (and was really fast!), but made the
> lines jagged and hard to see. "linear" preserved the sketch best but
> caused more distortion. "point" took forever, but the result was
> absolutely excellent. It is interesting to me that the default "line"
> gave the worst result of all options.
> 
> The Therion book does not mention "linear" or "point", and could do with
> an update. I found more details on this very old tutorial:
> http://marcocorvi.altervista.org/caving/tbe/m_04/m_045.htm
> 
> Torsten, that article is a treasure trove for you!
> 
> > Note: You may change order of morphed sketches and xvi with splay shots,
> > centreline and xvi mesh, switch visibility on/off, move them to exact
> > coordinates in “Background sketches” part of Map editor.
> 
> Are these documented anywhere? Specifically how to use the options.
> 
> I can see the "point extra" options in the linked article above, but not
> how to use the coordinates or visibility.
> 
> Feeling like I must have missed something, since the Therion book
> doesn't mention "background sketches" at all, and only describes setting
>  and  coordinates for the scrap's -sketch option. I am guessing
> that x/y lets you offset the sketch to a more useful location relative
> to your stations (though I have no idea why you would need to).
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Re: [Therion] How to morph sketches

[Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion]

> You are right. It could be very useful in simple passages. But in your
> case I’ll divide sketch to three pieces first and try to use “extra”
> points when LRUD are available.

Ah yes, doing it as separate scraps is a lot less messy. Though in the
end you then probably have to keep using multiple scraps, even if the
idea was to warp it into a nice shape so you can draw it up as a single
scrap.

I tested out the "sketch-warp" option (that goes directly in the
.thconfig file, not inside the layout). "plaquette" gave a very good
resulting shape for my demo case (and was really fast!), but made the
lines jagged and hard to see. "linear" preserved the sketch best but
caused more distortion. "point" took forever, but the result was
absolutely excellent. It is interesting to me that the default "line"
gave the worst result of all options.

The Therion book does not mention "linear" or "point", and could do with
an update. I found more details on this very old tutorial:
http://marcocorvi.altervista.org/caving/tbe/m_04/m_045.htm

Torsten, that article is a treasure trove for you!

> Note: You may change order of morphed sketches and xvi with splay shots,
> centreline and xvi mesh, switch visibility on/off, move them to exact
> coordinates in “Background sketches” part of Map editor.

Are these documented anywhere? Specifically how to use the options.

I can see the "point extra" options in the linked article above, but not
how to use the coordinates or visibility.

Feeling like I must have missed something, since the Therion book
doesn't mention "background sketches" at all, and only describes setting
 and  coordinates for the scrap's -sketch option. I am guessing
that x/y lets you offset the sketch to a more useful location relative
to your stations (though I have no idea why you would need to).
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