Re: [Therion] Geographical Coordinates on grid

[Alastair Gott]

Thank you Tarquin and thank you Bruce.

I will check out some mods to the numbers, thanks Bruce, it’s a head scratcher 
and I’m not sure I would have thought of that. Ps Bruce, part of one of the 
Spanish caves is named alien weaponry, hail to the Māori!

Tarquin, if Bruce’s fix doesn’t work I’ll jump on John Steven’s, he’s not the 
hardest to get hold of.


Al.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 13 Apr 2024, at 21:24, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion 
>  wrote:
> I know John Stevens did this ages ago - he does read this mailing list 
> sometimes, maybe he can say how he did it.
> 
> I rather suspect he manually specified the grid lines and crosses, and point 
> labels for the numbers.
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[Therion] -flip horizontal and line numbering

[alastair gott]

Hi Therion people,

I've just noticed that flipping an extended elevation scrap using “-flip 
horizontal” it changes the numbering of the lines points on the th2 file when 
the file is processed by the config file.

I was trying to line join the top line of one elevation survey with the top 
line of another survey using "join linetop@normal:end linetop@flipped:0" as the 
“normal:end” line was accidentally drawn clockwise and “flipped:0” was drawn 
anti-clockwise it makes sense that end and zero were the join points

However when the file was run it was necessary to change it to be "join 
linetop@normal:end linetop@flipped:end" to get the two lines to join, it's not 
a problem, just something I wasn't aware of.


Regards,
Alastair.

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Re: [Therion] Big room multiple scraps - How to join

[alastair gott]

HI Bill,

Something along the lines of
map ProblemchamberMP
GrandcanyonSP
FlatroomSP
endmap

select Problemchamber
export map -proj plan -o Problemchamber.th2

Instead of exporting to pdf, this will then export this to a .th2 file, where I 
guess it will appear with all the lines you have joined, instead of you having 
to join them with line joins/scrap joins or amending line end positions to 
force therion to automatically recognise them.

This will allow you to work on the whole chamber as one in a single .th2 file.

Of course then (more or less) in your master file you will have
survey StarkCaverns
input problemchamber.th2
input otherpartsofcave.th2

map StarkcavernsMP
PromblemchamberMP
OtherpartsofcaveMP
endmap

centreline
equate ...
endcentreline
endsurvey

This should hopefully reduce the overlap you are seeing in your current 
workaround, and it's probably still possible to implement this and delete the 
invisible walls from the centre of your chamber.

[cid:b0947cc4-0cfc-45f3-8d84-09fe9b29f7b8]


Regards,
Al

From: Bill Gee 
Sent: 03 August 2023 15:37
To: alastair gott 
Subject: Re: [Therion] Big room multiple scraps - How to join

Hi Alistair -

I am not sure I understand what you are suggesting.  It sounds like  the
idea is to use something like GIMP to collect all of the sketches for
the room into one JPG file, then use that file as the background for
Therion.

True?

I considered that idea.  There are two problems.  First, I know almost
nothing about GIMP.  It would be a steep learning curve.  Second, the
sketches are not all the same scale.  Some of them would have to be
shrunk.  Again a GIMP task, and beyond my knowledge of how GIMP works.

===
Bill Gee

On 8/2/23 12:16, alastair gott wrote:
> Hi bill,
>
> Could you set up a map for just that chamber which will then join all
> the sketches and export the .th2 for it. When you then subsequently
> export that .th2 to pdf, you do not need the joins and therefore do not
> lose any of the detail.
>
> Regards,
> Alastair Gott.
>
> Get Outlook for iOS 
> <https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=05%7C01%7C%7C13afc0601da0489ee6ad08db942f3937%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638266702773179124%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=QbCrIJHIwAUKZvxSqZYb6OgO7j%2BIrh7mqwPgjEkWh6c%3D&reserved=0<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>>
> 
> *From:* Therion  on behalf of Bill Gee
> 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 2, 2023 4:28:05 PM
> *To:* Therion Mail List 
> *Subject:* [Therion] Big room multiple scraps - How to join
> Hello everyone - I am having a problem getting Therion to understand how
> to join several scraps to make a large room.  The working map is at
>
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcampercaver.net%2FMiscFiles%2FStarkCavernsNoCenter.pdf&data=05%7C01%7C%7C13afc0601da0489ee6ad08db942f3937%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638266702773179124%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=JaEkdo9ILBvbQ%2FBvVAopbYGXV5ODrdNV9WTWBT3MNLk%3D&reserved=0<https://campercaver.net/MiscFiles/StarkCavernsNoCenter.pdf>
>  
> <https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcampercaver.net%2FMiscFiles%2FStarkCavernsNoCenter.pdf&data=05%7C01%7C%7C13afc0601da0489ee6ad08db942f3937%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638266702773179124%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=JaEkdo9ILBvbQ%2FBvVAopbYGXV5ODrdNV9WTWBT3MNLk%3D&reserved=0<https://campercaver.net/MiscFiles/StarkCavernsNoCenter.pdf>>
>
> Take a look at the east part of the map in an area called Grand Canyon.
> This is really one large room, though we did not realize that when we
> started sketching several years ago.  Now I have at least three
> different pieces of sketch to try and fit together.
>
> As you can see, there is a large triangle in the center which Therion
> thinks is not cave.  There are also some part which are outside the
> cave, but are considered by Therion to be inside.
>
> All of the joins in here are using line-to-line.  I named the lines,
> then created "join" statements specifying the two lines and which points
> on those lines to join.  Therion is happy with that, and the wall that
> it draws is a fair depiction of the area.  The problem is that much of
> the interior is getting lost.
>
> I have not tried to use plain joins of the scraps - joins which do not
> specify the lines.  I suspect that would not change much.
>
> I have already 

Re: [Therion] Big room multiple scraps - How to join

[alastair gott]

Hi bill,

Could you set up a map for just that chamber which will then join all the 
sketches and export the .th2 for it. When you then subsequently export that 
.th2 to pdf, you do not need the joins and therefore do not lose any of the 
detail.

Regards,
Alastair Gott.

Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>

From: Therion  on behalf of Bill Gee 

Sent: Wednesday, August 2, 2023 4:28:05 PM
To: Therion Mail List 
Subject: [Therion] Big room multiple scraps - How to join

Hello everyone - I am having a problem getting Therion to understand how
to join several scraps to make a large room.  The working map is at

https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcampercaver.net%2FMiscFiles%2FStarkCavernsNoCenter.pdf&data=05%7C01%7C%7C9c8f11c9727b4d3cf07108db936d2187%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638265869140778678%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2BmgbyseQrvzpE7OkIVQzqkimViOE0Xm7nNobpMemVvw%3D&reserved=0<https://campercaver.net/MiscFiles/StarkCavernsNoCenter.pdf>

Take a look at the east part of the map in an area called Grand Canyon.
This is really one large room, though we did not realize that when we
started sketching several years ago.  Now I have at least three
different pieces of sketch to try and fit together.

As you can see, there is a large triangle in the center which Therion
thinks is not cave.  There are also some part which are outside the
cave, but are considered by Therion to be inside.

All of the joins in here are using line-to-line.  I named the lines,
then created "join" statements specifying the two lines and which points
on those lines to join.  Therion is happy with that, and the wall that
it draws is a fair depiction of the area.  The problem is that much of
the interior is getting lost.

I have not tried to use plain joins of the scraps - joins which do not
specify the lines.  I suspect that would not change much.

I have already drawn some of this area three times.  It is
extraordinarily complicated due to multiple levels, especially along the
east side.  We thought for a long time that the east side was separate
passages, but it is really just a complicated pile of big breakdown blocks.

I really REALLY do not want to go back and make one huge sketch of the
entire room.  That would take several days.

What can I do to convince Therion where the cave really is?  Can I put
in some invisible walls (subtype hidden)?

Thanks!

--
===
Bill Gee
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Re: [Therion] Elevation scrap distortion with survex 3.d import

[alastair gott]

Hi Wookey,

Quick reply.

Looks like you might need to close the walls off, maybe add a wall invisible on 
the end of some of those walls, without looking deeper into your data if you’ve 
got scrap joins then open wall ends will always try and join back where they 
can.

This also goes for big pots open to the surface, where the walls will be bent 
down to nearest wall to join to. Add a wall invisible to the “top” of the cave 
and you’ll be sorted.

Al.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 25 Aug 2021, at 13:43, "woo...@wookware.org"  wrote:
> 
> I am getting strange (and very annoying) results with a new survey.
> This is my first real fully-digital project (using sexytopo/android) which
> may be a factor.
> 
> So we have a ~1km cave system with two vertical entrances: Pollnatagha
> 'Natagha' and Pollpruglish 'Pruglish'.
> 
> Attached is a tarball of the current files:
> (look at ee.pdf and natagha/blackarrow-ee.pdf to see what's broken.
> You'll need to edit natagha/paris/paris.th and
> natagha/blackarrow/blackarrow.th to process those two surveys on their own
> (see below)
> 
> And underlying survex dataset, (which is all lovely and working nicely) is
> here:
> (I can't upload them somewhere sensible instead as 'the internet' here is
> HTTP(s) only so no scp, ssh, imap, etc)
> 
> The fundamental issue is the plans are coming out fine, but the (extended)
> elevations are severely distorted. After some hours staring at it last
> night I worked out that the 'paris' survey was considered by therion to be
> upside down so adding a '-flip vertical' to the scrap definition made
> things look way better, and then making sure one leg was reversed took out
> the rest of the distortion.
> 
> However this does not seem to work for blackarrow, which is all twisted
> over itself, and not really any better if I flip vertically.
> 
> And the question remains - why does therion think my elevation sketches
> are upside down? Is this actually a bug in the 'therion' export from
> sexytopo? Or am I being dim about something? They look the right way up in
> the therion editor.
> 
> I've spent quite a lot of time checking that the stations are numbered as
> expected. I think there is something more significant about the extending
> process, or possibly the import -surveys use process. (The log file note a
> lot of 'unused fixed points' which are therion's made-up station numbers
> for the survex data in the thTMPdir). Not sure if this is relevant or not.
> 
> Also, I've noticed that whilst I have the right 'import -surveys use'
> runes for both the top level (whole cavesystem) and single-survey (paris).
> If I leave them both in then a big distortion re-appears (stations 7,8,9
> are moved ~30m along). What is going on there? Importing the same set of
> stations twice should actually matter should it? (it would be nice to be
> able to leave the 'single survey' import in place because then you can
> check that alone without having to edit the 'singlesurvey.th' each time to
> add/remove the import). The plan still works fine with the double-import.
> 
> I am currently in Northern Ireland with very limited internet (I've come
> to the local show-cave visitor centre to send this), but will be back in
> civilisation in Friday evg. If anyone replies to this today I'll be back
> here about 5pm to check. I can't really draw up any more elevation at the
> moment because I can't check it's not gone crazy (because it's already
> crazy :-)
> 
> So the  structure is:
> top-level NataghaPruglish.th (and thconfig)
> with natagha and pruglish surveys.
> I am using the 'import -surveys use' with corresponding empty therion
> survey structure so that the individual scrap station names as just '1'
> '2' etc.
> 
> There are about 12 surveys in total but you can ignore everything except
> 'paris' and 'blackarrow', two largely horizontal linear surveys under
> 'natagha'.
> 
> So this is now working:
> import NataghaPruglish.3d -surveys use
> survey natagha
> survey paris
> #import ../../NataghaPruglish.3d -surveys use -filter natagha.paris
> input "paris-ee.th2"
> endsurvey
> endsurvey
> 
> But if you comment that 2nd filtered import back in (in natagha/paris.th)
> then paris.7,8,9 move 30 to the right.
> 
> import NataghaPruglish.3d -surveys use
> survey natagha
> survey paris
> import ../../NataghaPruglish.3d -surveys use -filter natagha.paris
> input "paris-ee.th2"
> endsurvey
> endsurvey
> 
> 
> 
> If you have both paris and blackarrow input in natagha/natagha.th then you
> get a different pair of large distortions (in ee.pdf) (plan.pdf is fine).
> 
> import NataghaPruglish.3d -surveys use
> survey natagha
> survey paris
> #import ../../NataghaPruglish.3d -surveys use -filter natagha.paris
> input "paris-ee.th2"
> #import ../../NataghaPruglish.3d -surveys use -filter natagha.blackarrow
> input "blackarrow-ee.th2"
> endsurvey
> endsurvey
> 
> One last question. If I wanted to try a projected elevation (to remove the
> extra complexity of the extending pro

Re: [Therion] compass correction Re: Strange Therion/survex disparity

[alastair gott]

Hi Andrew,

I'm afraid I there is no answer as to whether I mean calibration, declination 
or calibrate declination.

 As the survex model has the *calibrate compass -2.65 already in it, and I 
don't know whether this is because they knew the compass was out, or whether 
they corrected for the declination in the survex model when the data was put in.

 When I refer to the calibration in Therion, I've just applied the same 
function calibrate compass 357.3

I was hoping that running the comparison between therion and survex on the 
first leg of the survey, I could work out by trial and error what I should do 
to make the data the same. I'm happy to apply a fix to all the .th files, to 
ensure that the models align, but this doesn't seem like the therion way given 
that the underlying data is the same.

PS. I know there will be parts of the datasets where there are differences, but 
till I can make the first leg the same, I think it will be difficult for me to 
spot even the biggest difference.


Therion.th
survey entrance_boulder
  centerline
cs UTM30N
station 1 "Cueva del Nacimiento" entrance
fix 1 0363921 4789684 470

date 2011.08.14
#calibrate compass 357.35

units length meters
units compass clino degrees
data normal from to length compass clino

1  213.40  131  10.0
2  310.50  194  1.0
endcentreline
endsurvey

config
source therion.th

export model -o therion.3d

Survex.svx
*begin entrance_boulder
*entrance 1
*fix 1 0363921 4789684 470; Cueva del Nacimiento (Cueva del Agua)

*date 2011.08.14
;instruments: SWCC compass and clino, colins laser pointer
;*calibrate compass -2.65
*calibrate clino -0.5

;**ENTRANCE TO BOULDER HALL**
;

*data normal from to direction tape compass clino
1 2 13.40 131 10.0
2 3 10.50 194 1.0
*end entrance_boulder


Regards,
Alastair Gott.

alastairg...@hotmail.com,
M: 07931779380.

From: Therion  on behalf of Andrew Atkinson 

Sent: 15 March 2021 16:53
To: therion@speleo.sk 
Subject: Re: [Therion] compass correction Re: Strange Therion/survex disparity

First when you say calibration, you do mean calibration not declination,
(or calibrate declination, which is an older form of declination) which
have slightly different functions?
There is more about these in the documentation, which can be useful when
dealing with old data sets.

I started a quick test hoping this would only take 5 mins, but got no
where, but found something interesting, I have run out of time, not read
the manual etc, so just putting this up as it could be useful

I produced two files identical except in the annoying format
differences. See below

I was expecting to see some difference between the 1980 and 220 as the
declination has moved about 3° I was interested to see what happened to
the no date one.

However, the answer was nothing happened everything came out the same,
with not adjustment, both in survex and therion. I noticed I didn't get
a list of declinations, so ran one of my older files, and it was there

geomag declinations (deg):
  2010.1.1  -2.6622
  2011.1.1  -2.4922

So at some point I knew what I was doing, but now I don't, but there are
no errors and no way to tell its not working!

Now I think that the problem with Therion is it is doing something weird
with the date.

Happily accepts
date 999
or
date 999.11
Not happy with
date 99.9 invalid date month

Goodness know how it is interpreting those

Survex give a sensible error message about the dates that can be use.

Andrew


Therion 5.5.7

survey all


equate 1@2020 1@nodate 1@1980

survey 2020
centerline
cs OSGB:ST
date 2020
data normal from to tape compass clino
1 2 15 90 0
2 3 10 180 0
endcentreline
endsurvey

survey nodate
centerline
cs OSGB:ST
data normal from to tape compass clino

1 2 15 90 0
2 3 10 180 0
endcentreline
endsurvey

survey 1980
centerline
cs OSGB:ST

date 1980
data normal from to tape compass clino
1 2 15 90 0
2 3 10 180 0
endcentreline
endsurvey

endsurvey


Survex

*Begin all

*Equate 2020.1 nodate.1 1980.1

*Begin 2020
*cs OSGB:ST
*date 2020
*Data normal from to tape compass clino
1 2 15 90 0
2 3 10 180 0

*End 2020

*Begin nodate

*Data normal from to tape compass clino
*cs OSGB:ST

1 2 15 90 0
2 3 10 180 0

*End nodate

*Begin 1980
*cs OSGB:ST
*Date 1980
*Data normal from to tape compass clino
1 2 15 90 0
2 3 10 180 0

*End 1980

*End all

On 15/03/2021 14:45, Alastair Gott wrote:
> Hi therion people,
>
> I’m working on the dataset again with my friend.
>
> We’ve found that the survex model uses a compass calibration in some
> places and are trying to work out if this needs transposing across to
> the therion model.
>  But in the process I have found out that when we give therion a compass
> reading it’s always taking off 0.9 to 1 degree from the reading given in
> the .th data.
>
> I’ve just run changes to entrance-boulder in bo

[Therion] compass correction Re: Strange Therion/survex disparity

[Alastair Gott]

Hi therion people,

I’m working on the dataset again with my friend.

We’ve found that the survex model uses a compass calibration in some places and 
are trying to work out if this needs transposing across to the therion model.
 But in the process I have found out that when we give therion a compass 
reading it’s always taking off 0.9 to 1 degree from the reading given in the 
.th data.

I’ve just run changes to entrance-boulder in both therion and survex. Below 
results just for first leg 1-2

No date+compass calib= 133.6 deg survex// 132.6 deg therion
Date + no compass calib=131.0 deg survex// 130.1 deg therion
No date+no compass calib=131 deg survex// 130deg therion
Date + compass calib=133.6 deg survex// 132.7 deg therion

So clearly therion is correcting the data 1[] 2[] 13.4[] 131[] 10.0
By always taking one degree off the compass irrespective of what we tell it.

(For information: When calibration used survex= *calibrate compass -2.65 // 
therion= calibrate compass 357.35)

Does anyone have any ideas where therion is pulling this 1 degree correction 
from?


Regards,
Alastair Gott.

> On 26 Feb 2021, at 07:43, A Gott  wrote:
> 
> HI Tarquin and Andrew,
> 
> Many thanks for that, We were just lost, I think we'll be able to pick it up 
> from here with your helpful guidance. Should just be a case of looking 
> through the .th files and looking for all the 90's
> 
> I hope you are both well.
> 
> Al.
> 
>> On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 at 07:33, Andrew Atkinson  wrote:
>> 
>> > DOWN has been mis-converted into +90 rather than -90, when converting
>> > from Survex format to Therion format.
>> > Survex:
>> > 2213  2212B   3.49-   DOWN
>> > Therion:
>> > 2213  22123.49  311  90
>> > I'm guessing that error may turn up elsewhere. consort_climax looks
>> > similarly wrong.
>> As a point to note -90 and Down at treated differently for clino 
>> correction, they can be treated ed the same
>> 
>>  From the survex manual
>> 
>>  "*infer plumbs on" tells cavern to interpret gradients of +/- 90 
>> degrees as UP/DOWN (so it will not apply the clino correction to them). 
>> This is useful when the data has not been converted to have UP and DOWN
>> 
>> Andrew
>> ___
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Re: [Therion] Gradient out of range - does not process

[alastair gott]

Hi Andrew, if you can get deg,mins,secs to work in survex then you can use the 
.3d file with the surveys use command. (But I think from your careful wording, 
you already know this).

import use.3d -surveys use

Not ideal afaik for “mixing local and global coordinates” so tricky if your 
going for a kml output if you have to use with mixed .3d and normal .th files.

It would be good if you could select a lookup file for the Clino, then you 
could easily create a translation file in excel and save that as a .th for your 
total station .th file to lookup to. But no idea if this is feasible or even an 
idea at all.

Al.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 13 Dec 2020, at 18:15, Andrew Atkinson  wrote:
> 
> Hello
> 
> I thought that there was a way I could stop the out of range error, but
> I cannot now find it. It would be an a useful command to have as instead
> of negative readings we got readings between 270 and 359, which although
> strange is valid. In survex readings over 90 are just a warning, which
> seems far more sensible, the problem is that I don't think that I can
> enter the data in survex either without conversion as I don't think that
> degrees minutes and seconds can be entered.
> 
> So I'm stuck with data that I have to convert, for different reasons
> depending on whether I use survex of therion.
> 
> Here is part of the file, I have quiet a few
> 
> survey
> 
> centreline
> data normal from to clino compass tape ignoreall
> 121:08:2583:37:4017.88
> 2300:00:00-:-:-0.055
> 3-02:39:00266:49:003.206
> 3-314:28:20299:57:452.02
> 3-16:32:25312:13:201.246
> 3-06:22:3584:16:101.17
> 3-309:16:4584:15:501.846
> 3-55:00:10122:44:500.77
> 3-325:02:55249:55:451.014
> 35359:30:50338:07:2516.674
> 5-306:52:00262:23:201.402
> 5-59:29:30343:51:301.076
> 5-305:08:25358:34:301.274
> 5-315:26:2090:51:351.632
> 5-29:12:4577:01:351.891
> 5-19:55:5033:02:003.071
> 5-348:22:3531:08:253.707
> 5-350:35:2015:31:254.292
> 5-13:29:3515:31:204.202
> 5-12:24:5030:20:207.919
> 5617:29:0531:28:506.444
> 6-307:24:35149:47:351.738
> 6-344:44:40149:45:301.426
> 6-77:05:35149:36:051.523
> 6-306:05:00314:12:100.84
> 6-353:47:5094:54:352.091
> 6-00:42:00219:31:405.446
> 6-18:33:50230:03:054.468
> 6712:26:05241:13:004.272
> 
> .etc
> 
> Anyone got a solution that does not mean I have to convert in a spreadsheet?
> 
> thanks
> 
> Andrew
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Re: [Therion] Vertical scalebar created by Juraj Halama added to wiki

[alastair gott]

Hi Martin,

Do you have the meta post for the plan and elevation symbols? They look great!

[cid:fb5ddfa0-6726-4688-a17f-4417930ca203]


thanks,
Al

From: Therion  on behalf of Martin Sluka via Therion 

Sent: 01 December 2020 15:41
To: List for Therion users 
Cc: Martin Sluka 
Subject: Re: [Therion] Vertical scalebar created by Juraj Halama added to wiki



29. 11. 2020 v 23:15, Bruce Mutton mailto:br...@tomo.co.nz>>:

Has this been compiled entirely with Therion, or has it been post processed 
with the likes of Illustrator or Inkscape?

As I may say, entirely in Therion with some editing of Metapost and TeX. Logos 
were created in some other programs.

Juraj Halama is not in front of his computer now, he will answer you later.

Martin
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Re: [Therion] Connection of Really straight mine level to surveyed passage

[alastair gott]

HI Beni and Ben,

I have applied those fixes, it's looking much better now i've applied the 
following to the mine level and added the points back in.
"centreline
grade UISv1_5
sd position 1 m
sd x 1 m
sd y 1 m"

I have also changed the survey grade of some of the loop closure passages to be 
grade UISv1_3, which has helped loosen them up a little. I've asked the person 
i'm helping whether we can apply the grade 3 fix to some more passages, but I 
think we'll have to choose wisely which we alter with this fix.

But I guess therion/survex is already applying this fix anyway, so it would be 
better for us to choose where it tightens and loosens the loop closer.

Thank you for the suggestions, I'll try and let you know how it goes.


Regards,
Alastair Gott.

alastairg...@hotmail.com,
M: 07931779380.

From: Therion  on behalf of Benedikt Hallinger 

Sent: 15 November 2020 08:09
To: List for Therion users 
Subject: Re: [Therion] Connection of Really straight mine level to surveyed 
passage

Another option would be to get the coordinates of the linking mine station and 
fixing it, and just giving that station a „perfect“ Standards deviation (isn’t 
that default if not given?)

Am 14.11.2020 um 21:29 schrieb Ben Cooper :


Hi Alistair
I would definitely link all the survey centrelines. The implication is that you 
have some errors in the survey, but you know that the straight mine level needs 
to be straight so the error isn’t there. One thing you could try is to set the 
SD for the level to be very low, and the SD for the rest of the cave to be 
quite high. When Therion distributes the error, most of this should go to the 
survey sections either the highest SD, and the level should be less distorted.
Best regards
Ben


Sent from my iPhone

On 14 Nov 2020, at 11:49, alastair gott  wrote:


HI Therion people,

I'm helping with a project we've got a cave/mine system with a really straight 
mine level for one of the entrances, which we have the centreline data for (but 
no sketches to show where the points are).

When the system was joined up together with all the entrances there was a kink 
in the mine level. so to counteract this, I removed some of the unknown survey 
points in the centre of the level and hung the survey on some points at the 
beginning and end of the level.

I now want to add in a section of cave in the centre of the level. I have 
connected this quite well in a map at a lower level with just the one entrance 
coordinates in it, but when I run the full map with all the entrances in, the 
model then tries to remove the loop error by doing it's statisical wizardry.

Unfortunately in doing so, it shifts the start of the level (the entrance) to 
the east. and then leaves the section of cave out unconnected.

If anyone can help, then the config for the full system is here: 
http://www.cave-registry.org.uk/svn/PeakDistrict/Castleton/peak_speedwell_model/<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cave-registry.org.uk%2Fsvn%2FPeakDistrict%2FCastleton%2Fpeak_speedwell_model%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C1f1e9dd467c24016498a08d8893df764%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637410246519365911%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=ZPk8DRBXvmSvvJYqFyWGU15PCQsMqQ1nuM6UFMcRpWY%3D&reserved=0>

This is what I get:




the config for the one entrance coordinate is here:
http://www.cave-registry.org.uk/svn/PeakDistrict/Castleton/peak_speedwell_model/speedwell_mine/Speedwell_mine_thconfig.thc<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cave-registry.org.uk%2Fsvn%2FPeakDistrict%2FCastleton%2Fpeak_speedwell_model%2Fspeedwell_mine%2FSpeedwell_mine_thconfig.thc&data=04%7C01%7C%7C1f1e9dd467c24016498a08d8893df764%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637410246519365911%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=AfKnso9AUbw0UzNSOYJxjwjf4edH7jnEqshbUCsBE44%3D&reserved=0>

and these are the two selects if you want to run it at the lower level:

select bottomless_pit.speedwell_mine
select oakden_level.speedwell_mine

This is what I want:





If I add in a survey point to hook it to, then I get this:



Rather than this:



Adding in more survey points further down the passage to the south only 
increases the amount of distortion in a small space of passage. as there are 
three loop closures at the bottom of the picture [just below the red circle) 
which the model is running (i've just not included the maps on the drawing for 
clarity).


Regards,
Alastair Gott.

alastairg...@hotmail.com,
M: 07931779380.
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Re: [Therion] Blended colour by gradient?

[alastair gott]

Hi Therion guys,

I've had a go at this today, is there anyone who would be able to automate the 
repetitive process to enable the software to implement this itself for a 
projected elevation?

and then add it as a background for a projected elevation survey.

I've taken a look at the therion mailing list and can see replies, so thank you 
for those, i'm going to need to sort my emails so I see your replies again 🙂

TH2
encoding  utf-8
##XTHERION## xth_me_area_adjust -129.0 -129.0 779.0 784.0
##XTHERION## xth_me_area_zoom_to 400

scrap cusseygradientSE65 -projection [elevation 0] -scale [0 0 650 0 0.0 0.0 65 
0.0 m]

point 325.0 650.0 station -name 65

line wall -subtype invisible
  650.0 645.0
  650.0 655.0
endline

line wall -subtype invisible
  0.0 645.0
  650.0 645.0
endline

line wall -subtype invisible
  650.0 655.0
  0.0 655.0
endline

line wall -subtype invisible
  0.0 655.0
  0.0 645.0
endline

endscrap


scrap cusseygradientSE64 -projection [elevation 0] -scale [0 0 650 0 0.0 0.0 65 
0.0 m]

point 325.0 640.0 station -name 64

line wall -subtype invisible
  650.0 635.0
  650.0 645.0
endline

line wall -subtype invisible
  650.0 645.0
  0.0 645.0
endline

line wall -subtype invisible
  0.0 635.0
  650.0 635.0
endline

line wall -subtype invisible
  0.0 645.0
  0.0 635.0
endline

endscrap


scrap cusseygradientSE63 -projection [elevation 0] -scale [0 0 650 0 0.0 0.0 65 
0.0 m]

point 325.0 630.0 station -name 63

line wall -subtype invisible
  0.0 625.0
  650.0 625.0
endline

line wall -subtype invisible
  650.0 625.0
  650.0 635.0
endline

line wall -subtype invisible
  650.0 635.0
  0.0 635.0
endline

line wall -subtype invisible
  0.0 635.0
  0.0 625.0
endline

endscrap


scrap cusseygradientSE62 -projection [elevation 0] -scale [0 0 650 0 0.0 0.0 65 
0.0 m]

line wall -subtype invisible
  0.0 615.0
  650.0 615.0
endline

point 325.0 620.0 station -name 62

line wall -subtype invisible
  650.0 615.0
  650.0 625.0
endline

line wall -subtype invisible
  650.0 625.0
  0.0 625.0
endline

line wall -subtype invisible
  0.0 625.0
  0.0 615.0
endline

endscrap


scrap cusseygradientSE61 -projection [elevation 0] -scale [0 0 650 0 0.0 0.0 65 
0.0 m]

line wall -subtype invisible
  0.0 605.0
  650.0 605.0
endline

point 325.0 610.0 station -name 61

line wall -subtype invisible
  650.0 605.0
  650.0 615.0
endline

line wall -subtype invisible
  650.0 615.0
  0.0 615.0
endline

line wall -subtype invisible
  0.0 615.0
  0.0 605.0
endline

endscrap


scrap cusseygradientSE60 -projection [elevation 0] -scale [0 0 650 0 0.0 0.0 65 
0.0 m]

point 325.0 600.0 station -name 60

line wall -subtype invisible
  650.0 595.0
  650.0 605.0
endline

line wall -subtype invisible
  650.0 605.0
  0.0 605.0
endline

line wall -subtype invisible
  0.0 605.0
  0.0 595.0
endline

line wall
  0.0 595.0
  650.0 595.0
endline

endscrap



TH FILE
survey cusseygradients

centreline
  cs OSGB:SK

  station 65 "main ent." entrance
  fix 65 16350  75190  244
data normal from to length compass clino
0 1 1 0 90
1   2 1 0 90
2   3 1 0 90
3   4 1 0 90
4   5 1 0 90
5   6 1 0 90
6   7 1 0 90
7   8 1 0 90
8   9 1 0 90
9   10 1 0 90
10  11 1 0 90
11  12 1 0 90
12  13 1 0 90
13  14 1 0 90
14  15 1 0 90
15  16 1 0 90
16  17 1 0 90
17  18 1 0 90
18  19 1 0 90
19  20 1 0 90
20  21 1 0 90
21  22 1 0 90
22  23 1 0 90
23  24 1 0 90
24  25 1 0 90
25  26 1 0 90
26  27 1 0 90
27  28 1 0 90
28  29 1 0 90
29  30 1 0 90
30  31 1 0 90
31  32 1 0 90
32  33 1 0 90
33  34 1 0 90
34  35 1 0 90
35  36 1 0 90
36  37 1 0 90
37  38 1 0 90
38  39 1 0 90
39  40 1 0 90
40  41 1 0 90
41  42 1 0 90
42  43 1 0 90
43  44 1 0 90
44  45 1 0 90
45  46 1 0 90
46  47 1 0 90
47  48 1 0 90
48  49 1 0 90
49  50 1 0 90
50  51 1 0 90
51  52 1 0 90
52  53 1 0 90
53  54 1 0 90
54  55 1 0 90
55  56 1 0 90
56  57 1 0 90
57  58 1 0 90
58  59 1 0 90
59  60 1 0 90
60  61 1 0 90
61  62 1 0 90
62  63 1 0 90
63  64 1 0 90
64  65 1 0 90
endcentreline

input cusseygradients.th2

map m1s -projection [elevation 0]
cusseygradientSE65
cusseygradientSE64
cusseygradientSE63
cusseygradientSE62
cusseygradientSE61
cusseygradientSE60
endmap

endsurvey


Regards,
Alastair Gott.
____
From: alastair gott 
Sent: 07 October 2020 12:27
To: therion@speleo.sk 
Subject: Blended colour by gradient?

Hi therion users,

One of my friends has asked me whether it’s possible to colour an elevation 
survey by a blended gradient rather than a discrete scrap by scrap basis.

I thought about it, but I don’t have the expertise in metapost, would it be 
possible to metapost a gradient which is predefined one colour through the 
normal rainbow of therion colours to the final colour and then bound this by 
the top and bottom of the cave.

Then insert this gradient as a fill cave fg user.

Just a thought?

I know John Stevens has some good success with the Agen allwedd survey in South 
Wales (uk) but I think his solution relied upon the 1 colour for one scrap 
metho

[Therion] Blended colour by gradient?

[alastair gott]

Hi therion users,

One of my friends has asked me whether it’s possible to colour an elevation 
survey by a blended gradient rather than a discrete scrap by scrap basis.

I thought about it, but I don’t have the expertise in metapost, would it be 
possible to metapost a gradient which is predefined one colour through the 
normal rainbow of therion colours to the final colour and then bound this by 
the top and bottom of the cave.

Then insert this gradient as a fill cave fg user.

Just a thought?

I know John Stevens has some good success with the Agen allwedd survey in South 
Wales (uk) but I think his solution relied upon the 1 colour for one scrap 
method, though my memory could be wrong.

Regards,
Alastair Gott,
alastairg...@hotmail.com

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [Therion] Need metapost wizard: new text label

[alastair gott]

Sorry Beni you'll get this twice as I forgot to send to the list...


The function def p_continuation (I know not the one you're using).

has the line:
if known(ATTR__text) and picture(ATTR__text):

This seems to work, but not sure if it's because of the next few lines:
 % set labeling color to light orange
  push_label_fill_color(0.8, 0.8, 0.0);​
  % draw filled label with text next to symbol ?​
  p_label.urt(ATTR__text,(.5u,-.25u) transformed T,0.0,8);​
  % restore original labeling color​
  pop_label_fill_color;​
  fi;

It seems like the P_label.urt is fairly important, as this is what tells it 
where to place the label, in this case in the upper right (.urt) and then tells 
it to put the attr_text there.

[cid:4b8816ef-abef-4e06-8047-3dee7b44eed9]

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=hh6rdgZ9m3MC&pg=PA65&lpg=PA65&dq=p_label.urt&source=bl&ots=1unNIgxr0Q&sig=ACfU3U39-oFLnFB5msQcedNUKtjMkbdY8A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwig4MyeqfDnAhUyThUIHUSxDSIQ6AEwBHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=p_label.urt&f=false


Regards,
Alastair Gott.

alastairg...@hotmail.com,
M: 07931779380.

From: Therion  on behalf of Benedikt Hallinger 

Sent: 26 February 2020 22:47
To: therion@speleo.sk 
Subject: Re: [Therion] Need metapost wizard: new text label

Hello,
meanwhile i tried to play more with this.
I'm nearly there, however i still have no clue how to read out the text
attribute i attached to the symbol in the th2. "txt := ATTR__text;"
throws metapost out the window.

The point is defined like this:
   point 234.0909090909091 626.3636363636364 u:mappe -attr text 1234


Layout i came up with so far (does not support
scaling/alignment/rotation, but thats fine so far):



-
layout m

   # Symbol to denote assigned survey.
   # If option -attr text  is given, it will be used; otherwise
current survey is shown.
   code metapost
 def p_u_mappe(expr pos, theta, sc, al) =
   T:=identity aligned al rotated theta scaled sc shifted pos;

   % GET LABEL TEXT:
   string txt;
   txt := "123";
   %txt := ATTR__text;   % does not work. How do i get the value from
' -attr text "345" '?
   if known(ATTR__text):
 txt := ATTR_text;   % NEVER evaluates to TRUE!?!?
   else:
 txt := ATTR__survey;
   fi;

   % DRAW LABEL:
   lab:=thelabel(txt, pos);
   process_label(pos, 0.001);


   % BORDER:
   pickup PenA;  % border thickness
   interim bboxmargin:=6.5bp;% padding border->text
   q:=((bbox lab) smoothed 4);   % smoothness of corners
   draw q;

 enddef;

 initsymbol("p_u_mappe");
   endcode
endlayout
-


Am 2020-02-19 18:34, schrieb Benedikt Hallinger:
> Hi there,
> i need some new point symbol (text label). Its a simple text on white
> color within a box with rounded corners, like the attached image.
>
>
> My metapostskills are not good enough to get this to work...
>
> For now i would be happy to have such a user point symbol.
> It would be important that it scales well and react to xtherions
> direction setting.
>
> Optional it would be cool if the default symbol could show the current
> survey identifier of the nearest station in the scrap and maybe also
> the nearest next survey.
> But this information could also be maintained manually for now.
>
> Is there someone here for my rescue? :)
> Thanks in advance,
> Beni
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Re: [Therion] therion sketch .th, Use of Grade UISv1_1

[alastair gott]

Hi Beni,

Many thanks, Have just slotted it in before units and data within the 
centreline/endcentreline wrapper, and it works!

Thank you for helping me get this sorted.
 on your recommendation, I have not included an endgrade as there is no need.

Just realised you're the master of grades Beni :) 
https://mailman.speleo.sk/pipermail/therion/2016-November/006103.html


Regards,
Alastair Gott.

alastairg...@hotmail.com,
M: 07931779380.

From: Therion  on behalf of Benedikt Hallinger 

Sent: 23 December 2019 19:41
To: List for Therion users 
Subject: Re: [Therion] therion sketch .th, Use of Grade UISv1_1

No, it is like this:
UISv1_

———-
centerline
...more stuff...
grade UISv1_3

units length meters
units bearing gradient degrees
datanormal  fromto  length  bearing gradientleft
right   up  down
...data follows...
endcenterline

> Am 23.12.2019 um 20:35 schrieb Andrew Atkinson :
>
> I'm only on a phone so cannot check this but surely it needs a number after 
> the system
>
> grade UISv1 3
>
> Also the th book of 19/12/19 only has v1 not v1_1 listed
>
> Andrew
>
>> On 23 December 2019 18:02:00 CET, alastair gott  
>> wrote:
>> Hi Therion mailing list,
>>
>> I'm trying to use the function "grade" in one of our .th files, theres
>> a sketch made of a cave with very little detail, but we think it would
>> be better to include it.
>>
>> I'm strugging to get the function grade to work, therion is giving me
>> red writing "-- not enough data readings" and stopping the survey from
>> generating, but only when I implement the grade function.
>>
>> I must be using it incorrectly, but I've tried it between survey and
>> centreline commands too and that isn't working either. this gives red
>> writing "-- invalid value -- centerline"
>>
>> centerline
>>   #[omitted] ​
>>   units length meters​
>>   units compass clino degrees​
>>   data normal from to length compass clino​
>>   extend left​
>>   grade UISv1_1​
>>   0 1 1.00 300 0.0​
>>   1 2 1.00  0.0 0.0​
>>   2 3 1.00  0.0 0.0​
>>   3 4 1.00  0.0 0.0​
>>   4 5 1.00  0.0 0.0​
>>   endgrade​​
>> endcenterline
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Alastair Gott.
>>
>> alastairg...@hotmail.com,
>> M: 07931779380.
>
> Andrew
> --
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[Therion] therion sketch .th, Use of Grade UISv1_1

[alastair gott]

Hi Therion mailing list,

I'm trying to use the function "grade" in one of our .th files, theres a sketch 
made of a cave with very little detail, but we think it would be better to 
include it.

I'm strugging to get the function grade to work, therion is giving me red 
writing "-- not enough data readings" and stopping the survey from generating, 
but only when I implement the grade function.

I must be using it incorrectly, but I've tried it between survey and centreline 
commands too and that isn't working either. this gives red writing "-- invalid 
value -- centerline"

centerline
#[omitted] ​
units length meters​
units compass clino degrees​
data normal from to length compass clino​
extend left​
grade UISv1_1​
0 1 1.00 300 0.0​
1 2 1.00  0.0 0.0​
2 3 1.00  0.0 0.0​
3 4 1.00  0.0 0.0​
4 5 1.00  0.0 0.0​
    endgrade​​
  endcenterline


Regards,
Alastair Gott.

alastairg...@hotmail.com,
M: 07931779380.
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Re: [Therion] problem with -flip horizontal extended elevation scrap

[alastair gott]

Sorry Omri and Tarquin,

Meant omri.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 20 Dec 2019, at 11:12, alastair gott  wrote:
> 
> Hi Tarquin,
> 
> You need to also change your .th file so the extend left/right are correct 
> for your flip horizontal.
> 
> If it’s for outputting at a higher level, then you can do that at higher 
> level, however as your flip in .th2 has been at lower level, probably best to 
> extend left right in your .th file.
> 
> Al.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 20 Dec 2019, at 10:16, עמרי גסטר  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi everyone,
>> 
>> I have a scrap of extended elevation to left and I want to flip it so it 
>> will be to the right, but when I add -flip horizontal to the scrap 
>> definition it flips it upside down and mashing up the lines. 
>>  -flip vertical does the same thing.
>> 
>> am I missing something?
>> my file is generated from Topodroid
>> 
>> I added an examples of what it does and the .th +.th2 files 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Omri
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Therion] problem with -flip horizontal extended elevation scrap

[alastair gott]

Hi Tarquin,

You need to also change your .th file so the extend left/right are correct for 
your flip horizontal.

If it’s for outputting at a higher level, then you can do that at higher level, 
however as your flip in .th2 has been at lower level, probably best to extend 
left right in your .th file.

Al.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 20 Dec 2019, at 10:16, עמרי גסטר  wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I have a scrap of extended elevation to left and I want to flip it so it will 
> be to the right, but when I add -flip horizontal to the scrap definition it 
> flips it upside down and mashing up the lines. 
>   -flip vertical does the same thing.
> 
> am I missing something?
> my file is generated from Topodroid
> 
> I added an examples of what it does and the .th +.th2 files 
> 
> -- 
> Omri
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Therion] How does Therion decide which passages to put above and below

[alastair gott]

Hi Tarquin and others,

I'm still struggling with this one, I have implemented Tarquin's suggestions 
but the survey has not changed in the slightest, I'm still getting the maps 
appearing below that I want above.

please find below my implementation.

Is there anything else I can try?

map Abovemainpassage -projection plan
m1p@YFSOE​
m1p@YMWAH​
endmap​
​
map mainpassage -projection plan​
m1p@clapham_to_wp​
m1p@wp_to_pf​
m1p@partingfriends​
endmap​
​
map Claphamjn_PartingfrMasterplan -projection plan​
Abovemainpassage​
break​
mainpassage​
endmap


Regards,
Alastair Gott.

alastairg...@hotmail.com,
M: 07931779380.

From: Therion  on behalf of Tarquin Wilton-Jones via 
Therion 
Sent: 12 December 2019 22:46
To: therion@speleo.sk 
Cc: Tarquin Wilton-Jones 
Subject: Re: [Therion] How does Therion decide which passages to put above and 
below

Alastair,

> I need to know how therion decides which passages to put above and below
> others.

I have not yet looked into your specific setup, but this is the general
case:

If you are *not* using "map-endmap" to define a map, or if you are
selecting multiple objects in a dataset with several "select" commands
rather than using a map, then Therion uses the average height of the
stations in the scraps to determine the heights of each scrap, and
stacks them accordingly.

If a scrap contains stations with altitudes 1m, 5m, and 15m, the average
height of the scrap will be 7m. The scrap will be placed above scraps
with average heights lower than that, even if the other scrap has two
stations at 6 metres, passing over the first scrap's 1m altitude
station. (It checks the averages, not the specific locations where the
scraps cross each other.)

If you are using maps, then by default, a map of scraps will be placed
with the scraps at the same stacking height as each other (so the
passage fills are rendered overlapping, and the features like walls are
all rendered on top of all the scraps at once). You use "break" to
separate the rendering layers.

map map1
 scrap1
 scrap2
 break
 scrap3
 scrap4
endmap

scrap1 and scrap2 get rendered at the same time, at the same stacking
level as each other. scrap3 and scrap4 get rendered at the same time, at
the same stacking level as each other. scrap1 and scrap2 get stacked and
layered *above* scrap3 and scrap4.

When you have a map of maps, a "break" is implied between the maps.

map outermap
 map1
 map2
 map3
endmap

The scraps in map1 are stacked/layered above the scraps in map2, and
those in map2 are stacked/layered above map3.

You seem to be using maps, so you will be seeing this automatic breaking
between maps.

If the scraps within a map are layered in the wrong order, change your
ordering of scraps within the map to put them in the right order, and
put "break" where needed to separate them into layers.

If the scraps within a map-of-maps are layered in the wrong order,
change your ordering of maps within the outer map to put the top layers
first.

Complicated setups can arise in some cases; If you have scraps within a
map (eg. "mapxyz") where some are supposed to pass above, and some
below, a scrap within another map (eg. "mapothr"), then you need to
split your "mapxyz" map into two maps, one with the "above" scraps, and
one with the "below" scraps, and then you need to include those two maps
separately in the parent map, with the interleaved "mapothr" map between
them.

I guess some of this might be stuff you already know, but maybe it will
explain what you are seeing at least.

Tarquin
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Re: [Therion] kml export is not working

[alastair gott]

Hi Torsten,

Would it be cs  UTM31N  (I use UTM30N for spain so assume that you're UTM31N 
for the lot)

I find the UTM from geoplaner normally, not sure who suggested it, but it's a 
good shout https://www.geoplaner.com/

Worth checking it out on Geoplaner, as its giving me the UTM31N for your 
coordinates as being 390214 4960303

so i'd say you should try:
cs  UTM31N
fix 9 0390214 4960303 105

Marco gives a couple of the coordinate systems that you can use

 http://marcocorvi.altervista.org/caving/tbe/m_02/m_02a.htm

Marco doesn't give cs osgb:sk but I know it can be used (If it's in the uk, 
because of course the British have to be different 🙁 )


Regards,
Alastair Gott.

alastairg...@hotmail.com,
M: 07931779380.

From: Therion  on behalf of henry.benn...@dell.com 

Sent: 04 December 2019 16:52
To: therion@speleo.sk 
Subject: Re: [Therion] kml export is not working


Pretty sure you can’t use “CS lat-long”.  I can get it to work by stripping 
back to just using reseau_de_louysse_surveys_dry2_2012_09.th and swapping it 
for “cs EPSG:32651” but then it puts it in completely the wrong place, however 
it does populate the kml file correctly.



Henry



From: Therion  On Behalf Of Nick Bairstow
Sent: 03 December 2019 11:44
To: List for Therion users
Subject: Re: [Therion] kml export is not working



[EXTERNAL EMAIL]

>As far as I know you only need a geo reference within your survey network.
>But you don't need to have a geo reference within your selected data for 
>output.
>Am I wrong with that?

You are correct, as long as you input the georeferenced survey in the top level 
directory you can toggle any output on and off with select in the survey 
structure.



I had a quick look at your files and struggled a bit with the structure, I will 
try and work it out tonight.



From: Therion [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Torsten Schnitter 
via Therion
Sent: 03 December 2019 07:41
To: List for Therion users mailto:therion@speleo.sk>>
Cc: Torsten Schnitter 
mailto:torsten.schnit...@netcologne.de>>
Subject: Re: [Therion] kml export is not working



Hello

I have stripped down all the data to the minimum.
You can find all attached in the zip file.

As far as I know you only need a geo reference within your survey network.
But you don't need to have a geo reference within your selected data for output.
Am I wrong with that?

Anyhow.
If you have a look at the "thconfig-survey.thc" file you can find some "DOES 
NOT WORK" and "DOES WORK" statements.
Beside this when not selecting anything it also does work with the kml export.
What also does NOT work is selecting all lines (wihat should be the same as 
selecting nothing).

When I do select the map "survey_southpassage_plan_m" it does work.
This map does have the same lines like the first part in the 
thconfig-survey.thc file which is not working.

May be there is something wrong in the select command?

regards,
Torsten

Nick Bairstow mailto:n...@pff.uk.com>> hat am 2. Dezember 2019 
um 23:19 geschrieben:

Just got there before me John. You are correct no coords but there is not much 
else either. I can edit the kml and insert coords name and icon and the file 
opens as expected but no centreline/splays or map outline in the case of model 
output. Also, if you try to compile Therion and ask for kml output and there 
are no coords in the .th then it fails with a warning.

I think there is something else going on and we need to see all the data.



From: Therion mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk>> On 
Behalf Of John Stevens
Sent: 02 December 2019 21:38
To: therion@speleo.sk<mailto:therion@speleo.sk>
Subject: Re: [Therion] kml export is not working



Looking at the kml file, I don't see the geo referenced points. By taking just 
part of the system, have you cut out a fixed point for the kml. This is a 
problem I have found when doing part of a system.







From: Torsten Schnitter via Therion

Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 1:35 PM

To: therion@speleo.sk<mailto:therion@speleo.sk>

Cc: Torsten Schnitter

Subject: [Therion] kml export is not working



Hello

I have some problems with exporting a kml file and I wonder what I'm doing 
wrong.
I'm using Therion 5.4.4 (2019-05-01) on Windows 7.
Aim is to just get the survey lines from a part of the cave system into a kml 
file.

In the thconfig file I select several lines with the "select command".
(I used to do this with double click on the data structure on the right side 
from the compiler window)

Generating a pdf file with:
export map -fmt pdf -proj plan -o 
_Output\Reseau_de_lOuysse_southpassage_2019.pdf -layout layout_plan
is doing exactly what I want to have.
The result is just the survey data from a part of the complete cave system.

But exporting a kml file with the same selected lines fails:
export model -fmt kml -o

Re: [Therion] Colouring an elevation based on surveys that are not being displayed

[alastair gott]

Hi Tarquin,

Might be really oversimplifying but didn't you write a wiki page about this 7 
months ago? https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/colouringelevations

With the use of Lookup at the bottom of the page?

Would the colours for the specific altitudes not be fixed if you used lookup?


Regards,
Alastair Gott.

alastairg...@hotmail.com,
M: 07931779380.

From: Therion  on behalf of Tarquin Wilton-Jones via 
Therion 
Sent: 02 December 2019 21:08
To: therion@speleo.sk 
Cc: Tarquin Wilton-Jones 
Subject: Re: [Therion] Colouring an elevation based on surveys that are not 
being displayed

> It is quite easy to turn a PDF into a JPG, especially on Linux. Once
> that is done, then any decent photo editor can crop it. The legend will
> be a problem. I suppose you could crop out two sections (the legend and
> the cave portion you want) and paste them into a single image.

Thanks for the suggestion.

For me, this is all very easy indeed, and if it were only me that
mattered, I would probably go down this route (as I have done with
wkhtmltopdf to get a modified cavelist into a survey). Even removing the
legend part is very easy with the various Therion options. But my
intention is to be able to share my surveys, source and all (they are
going to be one of the open source licences). Sadly, I cannot expect
another user to have to install and configure ImageMagick, and make
adjustments when adding new cave passage to a survey which shifts the
positions of things.

This is why I am hoping for a solution that works entirely within
Therion, if at all possible.

Still hoping for "altitude-relative caveMP@cave", which would be so much
easier for both my use case, and the use cases that I can see others
wanting :)
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[Therion] For Torsten: Photo Overlay sharing Texinputs

[alastair gott]

Hi Torsten,

I made some instructions last night so that we could get this working on our 
project, so excuse the references, but you will get the idea.

If anyone wants to tidy this up and put it on the Wiki then please feel free :)


Some instructions on getting the photo overlays to work on your PC.

You’ll need the onedrive as a file location on your PC.

Mine is at: C:\Users\alastair\OneDrive\Tresviso2019\photo_overlay


We need to point Therion to this file location

To do this we need to go into the Therion programme files:

In mine this is at C:\Program Files (x86)\Therion\texmf\web2c

[cid:7dde4e17-affb-4460-b533-5de7d5e7f714]


In here is a file called texmf.cnf

We need to edit this file.

It will look like this:

[cid:c9eb0e55-dca1-47be-8d12-00cbe479bf86]


We need to change the TEXINPUTS to point it to our onedrive file.

TEXINPUTS = $TEXMF/tex;C:/Users/alastair/OneDrive/Tresviso2019/photo_overlay;.

The semicolon and the dot at the end of this line are very important, as is the 
semicolon before the C directory.

Saving this file doesn’t always work. Administrator privileges or something.

If it doesn’t let you save it, save it somewhere else and either drag and drop 
it or copy and paste the file into the therion program files. C:\Program Files 
(x86)\Therion\texmf\web2c

Now we should be able to get the Photo overlay to work on both our PC’s.

And it will work across all of the different surveys.

For completeness we are keeping the specific photo overlay tex file in the same 
file as the thconfig. The specific photo overlay is looking into the onedrive 
file and drilling down into the Marniosa file.

http://cave-registry.org.uk/svn/Andara/Tresviso/Marniosa/therion/_photo_overlay.tex

As per Henry Bennett's suggestion the other week we are keeping the generic 
layouts and translations at a higher level. (I asked Henry whether I could 
borrow/steal a lot of his code from the speleophilippeans project and he was 
happy)

cave-registry.org.uk/svn/Andara/XTherionFiles/

It is still work in progress but we're getting there.


Regards,
Alastair.
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Re: [Therion] How to rotate XVI?

[alastair gott]

Hi Torsten,

You should be able to get it to work.

If I add "Survey-Folder/General-Folder//;" to TEXINPUTS it does work with 
"\loadpicture{image.jpg}".
But this is not the resolution as you might reference in the thconfig file to 
data within the project-folder.

You will be able to relate to the image.jpg and the project-folder 
interchangeably, just make sure you dont get rid of any of the standard 
settings.

I got rid of the ;. On the end of texinputs and it broke.

If you have overwritten any of the standard texinputs variables then it will 
stop working.

If you can’t get it to work, please copy and paste the export texinputs line 
and we can take a look.

Regards,
Alastair Gott

Sent from my iPhone

On 28 Nov 2019, at 08:48, Torsten Schnitter via Therion 
mailto:therion@speleo.sk>> wrote:


Hi Alastair

Is there a way to work with TEXINPUTS and relative paths?
The idea is to have a base folder in TEXINPUTS and to reference from this base 
folder to the final files within the thconfig commands.
I tried but couldn't get it to work.

If you have a folder structure with a main folder for all the survey stuff and 
subfolders for every cave system/survey project.
And also a subfolder for general stuff (may be with more subfolders).
Within every project you have the thconfig file with e.g. the \loadpicture 
command.

Survey-Folder
   General-Folder
  image.jpg
   Project-Folder
  thconfig

I would like to reference with relative paths from that thconfig to the 1st 
level subfolder with general stuff for example.
I added "Survey-Folder//;" to TEXINPUTS and tried 
"\loadpicture{/General-Folder/image.jpg}" but it didn't work.

If I add "Survey-Folder/General-Folder//;" to TEXINPUTS it does work with 
"\loadpicture{image.jpg}".
But this is not the resolution as you might reference in the thconfig file to 
data within the project-folder.

regards,
Torsten

alastair gott mailto:alastairg...@hotmail.com>> hat 
am 27. November 2019 um 12:13 geschrieben:

HI Torsten and Bruce,

I'm not a "coder" but I implemented the  export Texinputs last night for 
relative file locations, It was OK in the end but it took me a while to work 
out where the export texinputs was actually kept.

I broke texinputs on my PC last night by accidentally removing the final ;.
 Which meant that it could not find the normal therion functions to work, 
luckily I worked out my mistake.

Do you think it would be possible to create a file within the therion software 
files where absolute file locations can be kept separately to the texinputs?

This would allow you to ask anyone using your thconfig to go onto a publicly 
shared file system and copy it into their computer. ie 
C:\Users\alastair\OneDrive\#


If this is possible, would it also be possible to create another window in the 
thconfig which looks to the absolute file locations and allows you to "select" 
images from there. Much like the survey structure.

 which then spits out the code:
code tex-map
\legendbox{00} {140} {nw} {\loadpicture{/TCP.png}}
endcode


Regards,
Alastair Gott.

alastairg...@hotmail.com<mailto:alastairg...@hotmail.com>,
M: 07931779380.


From: Therion mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk>> on 
behalf of Torsten Schnitter via Therion 
mailto:therion@speleo.sk>>
Sent: 27 November 2019 09:07
To: List for Therion users mailto:therion@speleo.sk>>
Cc: Torsten Schnitter 
mailto:torsten.schnit...@netcologne.de>>
Subject: Re: [Therion] How to rotate XVI?


Hi Bruce

Sometimes it is more trick than magic. ;-)

I agree with this shaded line. That would be realy nice to have this available.
May be with a paramter for the "thickness" of the shade.

I have some more statements \def\maplayout{ \legendbox ... {\loadpicture...} } 
for pictures and elevation map. As you already have supposed. I deleted all 
this in the previous example to make it more easy to read.
I'm using absolute paths for loadpicture commands.
But it would be much better if you can use relative paths like 
..\logos\picture.jpg
I'm also looking forward for a better solution to this.


regards,
Torsten

Bruce Mutton mailto:br...@tomo.co.nz>> hat am 26. November 
2019 um 09:37 geschrieben:


Thanks for the comprehensive answers Torsten

I was a little disappointed that the surface ‘line’ turns out to be a clever 
adaption of a long skinny ‘area’, but it is effective I suppose.  I seem to 
recall there was a conversation about creating a line with shading along one 
side recently…  That would be easier for the draughtsperson if someone has 
solved that one.  All the same, I think I may use your method one day.



The legend scaling is interesting, and I see now that you posted this 
previously.  I wonder if a similar approach could be taken to scaling all the 
passage cross sections, with a simple ‘s

Re: [Therion] How to rotate XVI?

[alastair gott]

HI Torsten and Bruce,

I'm not a "coder" but I implemented the export Texinputs last night for 
relative file locations, It was OK in the end but it took me a while to work 
out where the export texinputs was actually kept.

I broke texinputs on my PC last night by accidentally removing the final ;.
 Which meant that it could not find the normal therion functions to work, 
luckily I worked out my mistake.

Do you think it would be possible to create a file within the therion software 
files where absolute file locations can be kept separately to the texinputs?

This would allow you to ask anyone using your thconfig to go onto a publicly 
shared file system and copy it into their computer. ie 
C:\Users\alastair\OneDrive\#


If this is possible, would it also be possible to create another window in the 
thconfig which looks to the absolute file locations and allows you to "select" 
images from there. Much like the survey structure.
[cid:7399ee40-348b-4212-8b63-393f383b633e]
 which then spits out the code:
code tex-map
\legendbox{00} {140} {nw} {\loadpicture{/TCP.png}}
endcode


Regards,
Alastair Gott.

alastairg...@hotmail.com,
M: 07931779380.

From: Therion  on behalf of Torsten Schnitter via 
Therion 
Sent: 27 November 2019 09:07
To: List for Therion users 
Cc: Torsten Schnitter 
Subject: Re: [Therion] How to rotate XVI?


Hi Bruce

Sometimes it is more trick than magic. ;-)

I agree with this shaded line. That would be realy nice to have this available.
May be with a paramter for the "thickness" of the shade.

I have some more statements \def\maplayout{ \legendbox ... {\loadpicture...} } 
for pictures and elevation map. As you already have supposed. I deleted all 
this in the previous example to make it more easy to read.
I'm using absolute paths for loadpicture commands.
But it would be much better if you can use relative paths like 
..\logos\picture.jpg
I'm also looking forward for a better solution to this.


regards,
Torsten

Bruce Mutton  hat am 26. November 2019 um 09:37 geschrieben:


Thanks for the comprehensive answers Torsten

I was a little disappointed that the surface ‘line’ turns out to be a clever 
adaption of a long skinny ‘area’, but it is effective I suppose.  I seem to 
recall there was a conversation about creating a line with shading along one 
side recently…  That would be easier for the draughtsperson if someone has 
solved that one.  All the same, I think I may use your method one day.



The legend scaling is interesting, and I see now that you posted this 
previously.  I wonder if a similar approach could be taken to scaling all the 
passage cross sections, with a simple ‘switch’?



I guess your \def\maplayout{ also contains a couple of \loadpicture statements, 
one for the Hidden river logo and one for the elevation.  Are you using 
absolute paths to specify the file to load, or environment variables?  I am 
interested in ways to make it easier for projects that are used with version 
control across a number of different versioned branches and computer systems.  
I have not got the time to experiment, but if the environment variable has to 
point to the exact folder (as this page implies 
https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/tex#changing_the_look_or_layout_of_a_map_output),
 I can imagine it becomes unworkable on a computer system with dozens of cave 
projects, each comprising a number of caves.

This post by Martin 
B<https://www.mail-archive.com/therion@speleo.sk/msg05519.html> in 2015 
suggests we can define a root folder with an environment variable, and then 
spell out an absolute path relative to that.  Unfortunately if one uses a 
version control system that stores different development branches in different 
folders, both approaches are even more problematic.



Sorry that this thread is rambling around topics that bear little relation to 
the original message.



Bruce



From: Therion  On Behalf Of Torsten Schnitter via 
Therion
Sent: Monday, 25 November 2019 23:33
To: List for Therion users 
Cc: Torsten Schnitter 
Subject: [Therion] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: How to rotate XVI?

Hi

I got the answer for rotation XVI file already from Stephen Clark.
In the end it's easy and as Alastair also mentioned:
export map -fmt xvi -proj [elevation 45 deg] -o 

Concerning the questions from Bruce:
1. Ground profile
You have to export a kml file from your passages. But only these survey lines 
you would like to have the surface profile from.
There is a website where you can transform this kml data to surface data. You 
will get an endless list with stations and added surface altitude. The website 
is www.gpsvisualizer.com<http://www.gpsvisualizer.com>
I can't remember how to get the final file  but there was still some work to do 
on that file.
In the end you need a file like this to generate a XVI file from that:
survey
 centreline
  date 
   cs lat-long
   walls off
  

[Therion] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: How to rotate XVI?

[alastair gott]

Hi Torsten,

As far as I know the command "elevation" only works when you give it an angle 
(ie elevation 45 or elevation 315).

The clever guy Mr Tarquin gave me some code to generate a (projected) elevation 
to an xvi file, he said it could be used with the "select" command.

I guess without giving therion an angle to project the elevation command to it 
may just default to "elevation 0" (or an elevation facing north).

Looks like an amazing project with some great cavers.


Regards,
Alastair Gott.

alastairg...@hotmail.com,
M: 07931779380.

From: Therion  on behalf of Torsten Schnitter via 
Therion 
Sent: 24 November 2019 17:00
To: therion@speleo.sk 
Cc: Torsten Schnitter 
Subject: [Therion] How to rotate XVI?


Hello

I have a cave system in a plan view and also an elevation view from the main 
passage. This main passage is heading west-east.
Both maps are compiled into one final map.
(http://www.thehiddenriverproject.org/downloads/Reseau_de_lOuysse_Copyright.pdf)
Beside that I would like to add a side passage which is heading let's say 
north-south also in elevation view into the final map.
Therefore I would like to draw an elevation map of only this side passage with 
point of viewing from west to east.

I selected all the measured survey lines from only this side passage and wanted 
to have the resulting (elevation) XVI file rotated 45 degree (counterclock 
wise). I do get a correct XVI file with only the side passage but not rotated.
I tried to use a layout for the XVI export and within that I used the "rotate" 
command.
But it didn't work:

select line
select line
export map -fmt xvi -proj elevation -layout layout_xvi -o 

layout_xvi
  scale 1 200
  units metric
  rotate -45
endlayout

Is it possible to get a rotated XVI file (elevation view)?

regards,
Torsten


ProjectSection.thconfig
Description: ProjectSection.thconfig
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Re: [Therion] ***UNCHECKED*** RE: scrap without stations keeps the original sketch in Topodroid

[alastair gott]

Hi Omri,


I think it depends on how you've surveyed this chamber, without seeing how 1_9 
is connected to 1_17 on your th file, I think it would be very difficult to 
work out why the programme is distorting the file so much.

I suspect now you have run it (scrap 26) without any survey points, you have 
taken out the reason why the programme is warping your image. therefore it's 
probably a problem with your th file.

As far as my limited knowledge takes me, there are a couple of reasons why it 
might have warped your image.
1) a series of points connected up from 1_9 to 1_17 may have a small error in 
them.
2) you may have accidentally equated two points in your th file. (for example
1_9 to 1_10,
1_10 to 1_11,
1_11 1_9 0 0 0,
3) If you have outputted this at a higher "cave" level (when you ran 
Kimron-1_15Xp) and linked in more than one of the pits in the floor, this could 
also cause warping when the programme tries to join several th2 files together. 
This is so that it can create the best fit with where you've placed the walls.

Might be an idea to show us your th file.


Regards,
Alastair Gott.

alastairg...@hotmail.com,
M: 07931779380.

From: Therion  on behalf of עמרי גסטר 

Sent: 07 October 2019 17:00
To: List for Therion users 
Subject: Re: [Therion] ***UNCHECKED*** RE: scrap without stations keeps the 
original sketch in Topodroid

Here is an example of what I mean:

the cave I'll show is a pit and I made plan sketches as a horizontal sections. 
The extended profile turned out good.
one of the plan sketches is distorted as you can see here:

[image.png]


The original scrap is  Kimron-1_15Xp, the new scrap is  scrap26,
so, I moved all the map elements except the stations, so now my scrap look like 
this ( the stations still exists in the  .th file):

scrap Kimron-1_15Xp -projection plan -scale [0 0 20 0 0 0 1 0 m]

point 146.75 -130.52 station -name "1_9"
point 162.64 -129.64 station -name "1_10"
point 186.31 -124.43 station -name "1_11"
point 198.19 -127.12 station -name "1_12"
point 176.97 -115.01 station -name "1_13"
point 191.00 -109.43 station -name "1_14"
point 194.21 -92.76 station -name "1_15"
point 182.67 -112.46 station -name "1_16"
point 186.84 -71.79 station -name "1_17"

endscrap
scrap scrap26 -projection plan -scale [0 0 20 0 0 0 1 0 m]

line wall -close on.

when I ran scrap26 the map is correct:

[image.png]

I used this Technic several times and it worked every time.


On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 12:23 PM Bruce Mutton 
mailto:br...@tomo.co.nz>> wrote:

Omri, Alastair

I would have thought it almost impossible to draw a whole cave without any 
point stations in the th2 files, but yesterday a colleague who just self-taught 
themselves Therion presented me with a 5km long cave that has no point stations 
defined in the th2 (it has survey stations of course, just not drawn in the 
scraps).  It is also one of the better looking Therion maps I have come across. 
 I have yet to pick it apart to see why it works and what the implications are.

My suspicion is that it does not properly morph the sketches to the survey 
network.



In response to Omri’s question – if your survey is perfect, and the field 
sketch as well, then of course an unmorphed drawing will be just fine.  If you 
have a real survey and sketch, subject to distortions due to loop closures over 
multiple trips (multiple files), then the loops will not match, and the drawing 
will need to be morphed due to loop closures and due to scrap joins where the 
scraps are in different files or different locations in the same file.



If, when using Topodroid, as I have seen people over here do, you accumulate 
all of your survey trips in a single file, and end up with one huge sketch for 
the cave, in which you manually compensate for any misclosures, then Therion 
has nothing much left to do.  In that case, it might be fine to do as you 
describe.  Until someone finds the next big breakthrough passage, then it may 
or may not be.



Bruce







From: Therion mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk>> On 
Behalf Of alastair gott
Sent: Monday, 7 October 2019 19:34
To: List for Therion users mailto:therion@speleo.sk>>
Subject: Re: [Therion] scrap without stations keeps the original sketch in 
Topodroid



Hi Omri,



You cannot have a scrap without any survey points in it. each scrap or th2 file 
needs 2 or greater survey stations in it to function correctly without warping 
the image.



extended elevations are a bit different (and sometimes need careful adjustment 
of the legs to fold the extended elevation in the correct way).



[Caviat, I know you can have a th2 file with no survey stations in it, but 
we're not creating rocks today 
wookware.org/surveys/therion/testrocks<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwookware.org%2Fsurv

Re: [Therion] scrap without stations keeps the original sketch in Topodroid

[alastair gott]

Hi Omri,

You cannot have a scrap without any survey points in it. each scrap or th2 file 
needs 2 or greater survey stations in it to function correctly without warping 
the image.

extended elevations are a bit different (and sometimes need careful adjustment 
of the legs to fold the extended elevation in the correct way).

[Caviat, I know you can have a th2 file with no survey stations in it, but 
we're not creating rocks today wookware.org/surveys/therion/testrocks].


Regards,
Alastair Gott.

alastairg...@hotmail.com,
M: 07931779380.

From: Therion  on behalf of עמרי גסטר 

Sent: 06 October 2019 20:31
To: List for Therion users 
Subject: [Therion] scrap without stations keeps the original sketch in Topodroid

Hi all,
I want to raise a question I've been having with my self...
when I'm in the cave I use Topodroid to make the sketch. when I export the map 
in Therion with "debug on" I see the changes that Therion makes which make the 
final map different from the sketch I made in Topodroid (sometimes it is a big 
difference).
a few days ago I noticed that if I make a new scrap and move all the map 
elements that I draw except the stations, the map turns out exactly as I draw 
it on Topodroid.

As I understand it, Therion change the map to overcome or compensate errors or 
Deviations, especially when there are loops involved, but wouldn't it be more 
accurate to stick to the original sketch that I drew with Topodroid  in the 
cave?
what do you think?

Omri Gaster
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Re: [Therion] Limit on scale

[alastair gott]

Hi Andrew,

Do you need to refer to Slab chamber as:
 input "..\SlabChamber/SlabChamber.th"
because slab chamber is in a higher file than bagpit?

also I cannot find input Temp/bagpit_dig.th #containing survey Temp

I managed to get slabchamber to appear in the survey structure by adding in ..\


Regards,
Alastair Gott.

alastairg...@hotmail.com,
M: 07931779380.

From: Therion  on behalf of Andrew Atkinson 

Sent: 23 September 2019 19:40
To: therion@speleo.sk 
Subject: [Therion] Limit on scale

I'm working on a survey

http://www.cave-registry.org.uk/svn/CheddarCatchment/Bagpit/

As I'm working on it the Head will be changing as often

Using the config file in this directory it works at a scale of 1 100

However if I import common_layout.th (which imports another file) from

http://www.cave-registry.org.uk/svn/CheddarCatchment/

Then use the common layout in my local layout, I get an error if I try
to go to a scale bigger than 1 139 (eg 1 138) The message does not give
me any clues, as far as I can fathom, of what is causing the error, and
there is lots going on in these files, some very old now, so how do I
find the problem?

The error message is
writing BagpitP.pdf ...
### metapost log file 
This is MetaPost, version 2.00 (TeX Live 2019/dev/Debian) (kpathsea
version 6.3.1/dev)  23 SEP 2019 19:29
**data.mp
(/usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/metapost/base/mpost.mp
(/usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/metapost/base/plain.mp
Preloading the plain mem file, version 1.005) ) (./data.mp
{randomseed:=42}
 [4001] [4002] [4003] [4004] [4005] [4006] [4007] [4008] [4009] [4010]
[4011] [
4012] [4013]
[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17]
[18] [19] [20] [21] (./mptextmp.mp) (./mptextmp.mp) (./mptextmp.mp)
(./mptextmp.mp) (./mptextmp.mp) (./mptextmp.mp) [22]
! Number is too large (5669.29134).
l.6842 s_hgrid(-1, -1, 5669.29134
 , 5669.29134);
It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope
with that big value; but it might be dangerous.
(Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.)

! Number is too large (5669.29134).
l.6842 s_hgrid(-1, -1, 5669.29134, 5669.29134
 );
It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope
with that big value; but it might be dangerous.
(Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.)

[23]
! Number is too large (5669.29134).
l.6845 s_hgrid(0, -1, 5669.29134
, 5669.29134);
It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope
with that big value; but it might be dangerous.
(Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.)

! Number is too large (5669.29134).
l.6845 s_hgrid(0, -1, 5669.29134, 5669.29134
);
It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope
with that big value; but it might be dangerous.
(Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.)

[24]
! Number is too large (5669.29134).
l.6848 s_hgrid(1, -1, 5669.29134
, 5669.29134);
It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope
with that big value; but it might be dangerous.
(Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.)

! Number is too large (5669.29134).
l.6848 s_hgrid(1, -1, 5669.29134, 5669.29134
);
It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope
with that big value; but it might be dangerous.
(Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.)


>>>>>>>>>..and it continues on a similar vein until

   );
It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope
with that big value; but it might be dangerous.
(Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.)

[31] )

Here is how much of MetaPost's memory you used:
 7706 strings using 154690 characters
 4000528 bytes of node memory
 1469 symbolic tokens
 11i,81n,26p,214b,5f stack positions out of 16i,96n,32p,250b,6f
44 output files written: data.1 .. data.4013


 end of metapost log file 
therion: error -- metapost exit code -- 512
writing xtherion file ... done

Any help most appriciated

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Re: [Therion] Using 3d Scan Data To Create A Map

[alastair gott]

Just musing, KML doesn’t really give you anything other than the walls?

Therefore it doesn’t really matter if you use the base point for the 3D scan 
data and trace around the walls to whatever detail you want. Using the 3D scan 
data as a background image on your th2 file.

As far as I know the KML only really gives you plan data, perhaps a negligible 
amount of vertical data, but I’ve never really played about with it.

I’ve been able to create KML by using one or two points of a .3D file in a mile 
(or half a mile) of passage. The introduction of less points just increases the 
warping of the walls.

It just depends on what accuracy you want, 3D scan will give you pinpoint 
accuracy, how you use that is up to you.

I hope you get on well with the introduction of 3D scan data :)

See you soon Nick!

Al.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 20 Jun 2019, at 20:30, kevin dixon  wrote:
> 
> I do not know.
> 
> I have in the past hand cranked a result by plotting LiDAR data 2D
> (whole dataset or sub-slices) and manually selecting outer points to
> create an outline or cross section but that was circa ten years ago.
> 
> An 'automated' approach will need some sort of fractal control -
> coastline length problem.
> 
> Kevin
> 
> On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 6:56 PM Martin Sluka via Therion
>  wrote:
>> 
>> Kevin, is any of those softwares able to create vector outline of projection 
>> of cloud to a plane?
>> 
>> Martin
>> 
>>> 20. 6. 2019 v 12:43, kevin dixon :
>>> 
>>> Those with their own LiDAR instrument will usually have access to
>>> their LiDAR manufacturer Software and this often includes automated
>>> rendering of man-made surfaces - results quality depend a lot on the
>>> LiDAR resolution and accuracy. Natural surfaces such as caves are more
>>> difficult for Point Cloud software to deal with automatically.
>>> 
>>> For the rest of us, you may wish to consider the following open source
>>> software for Point Clouds:
>>> MeshLab - lots of functionality, poor interface, I used this a decade
>>> ago when there were few open source options
>>> CloudCompare - nice interface, I have not used it for a while
>>> ParaView - uses PCL (Point Cloud Library), PCL can be used direct
>>> depending on your coding ability
>>> PDAL - a library of point cloud tools, need to use something like QGIS
>>> for results visualisation
>>> Blender - more for 3D videographics
>>> 3DTK - 3D Toolkit, not familiar with
>>> 
>>> Other options are available.
>>> 
>>> Kevin Dixon
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 9:36 AM Martin Sluka via Therion
>>>  wrote:
 
 Isn’t it as call for nuclear aircraft carrier to kill a fly?
 
 Martin
 
 Odesláno z iPhonu
 
 20. 6. 2019 v 9:33, Pavel Herich :
 
> This software should do it:
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgeoslam.com%2Fhub%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C4a1bc8d4138e4cb217e308d6f5b5ba83%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636966558213530576&sdata=xAonwt7nb%2BlKTnV25024kZpGe0bAk2dGxC6o2%2B0S%2BNc%3D&reserved=0
> P.
> 
> 
> Dňa 2019-06-20 09:26 Martin Sluka via Therion napísal(a):
>> I’m curios if there is a software able to create  vector map outline
>> from cloud data automatically.
>> Martin
>> Odesláno z iPhonu
>> 19. 6. 2019 v 23:13, kevin dixon :
>>> Nick,
>>> I have both DistoX2 and LiDAR data for parts of the same cave.
>>> All the LiDAR scans were registered to create a single model as normal
>>> for LiDAR.
>>> The individual scans were then decimated in the Point Cloud Software
>>> using a suitable distance to nearest neighbour. I found Survex gets a
>>> bit overwhelmed with millions of LiDAR data so you may have to
>>> experiment with a suitable distance between adjacent LiDAR data. Each
>>> decimated individual scan was then output to LibreOffice Calc and new
>>> ranges, bearings and inclinations calculated to create single station
>>> Survex files with lots of splays, now all orientated the same way.
>>> Dummy traverse observations were created within Survex to link all the
>>> LiDAR scan stations based upon the Point Cloud registration
>>> coordinates and elevations of the scan stations.
>>> I then manually matched the Survex output of the above LiDAR data to
>>> some known DistoX2 observations or in your case, perhaps known show
>>> cave outline. You can do this within Survex by having your non-LiDAR
>>> data as another survey then using a Calibrate Compass figure (may
>>> require up to +/-180degrees) within the LiDAR Survex data to change
>>> the orientation so as to match the known and also setting one of the
>>> LiDAR stations within the Dummy traverse observations to coordinates
>>> and elevation that give a good fit with the known data. Several
>>> iterations are needed with these.
>>> Hope that is self explanatory.
>>> Has worked for me - I have a DistoX2 Survex model with ve

Re: [Therion] Maps of maps at lower level in survey tree

[alastair gott]

Thank you Martin and Tarquin,

It’s all working perfectly, such a useful thing to know. Got a few things to 
try out later too.

Many thanks for sorting me out.

Al.

Sent from my iPhone

On 7 May 2019, at 17:42, Martin Sluka via Therion 
mailto:therion@speleo.sk>> wrote:


And use only simple thconfig:

source 
Fingernailviatpvtovortex2.th

export …..


Sorry:

source 
Fingernailviatpvtovortex2.th
select Fingernailtovortex2@Fingernailviatpvtovortex2 #map@survey

export …..


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Re: [Therion] Maps of maps at lower level in survey tree

[alastair gott]

Hi Martin and Tarquin,

I have now redefined the subsurveys correctly, however it's now got an error on 
the thconfig file.

Error
C:\Program Files (x86)\Therion\therion.exe: error -- thconfig [16] -- object 
does not exist -- tpv
writing xtherion file ... done

But as far as I know I defined the map tpv on the .th file. I've been round in 
a circle before commenting out parts. If I comment out tpv from both .th and 
config file, then I get the same message with just "lower".

Error
error -- thconfig [18] -- object does not exist -- lower

Regards,
Alastair Gott.

alastairg...@hotmail.com,
M: 07931779380.

From: Therion  on behalf of Martin Sluka via Therion 

Sent: 07 May 2019 07:26
To: List for Therion users
Cc: Martin Sluka
Subject: Re: [Therion] Maps of maps at lower level in survey tree


6. 5. 2019 v 23:48, alastair gott 
mailto:alastairg...@hotmail.com>>:

map tpv
TotalperspectivevortM​
break​
Vortex2M​
endmap​
​
map lower​
TotpersfromfingerM​
endmap​


TotalperspectivevortM is scrap, isn’t it. But that scrap is part of namespace 
Totalperspectivevort of survey Totalperspectivevort defined in file 
Totalperspectivevort.th<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftotalperspectivevort.th&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb1b950e4fdca48063d3b08d6d2b4f6bb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636928072002282895&sdata=WKj8RhBKVT9%2BzUu6%2Ftcmo1To5XPTGHNHAF%2Btb0LTXl0%3D&reserved=0>

Therion must know the way to all objects to work with. If not, it sends message 
as in your case 
"Fingernailviatpvtovortex2.th<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ffingernailviatpvtovortex2.th&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb1b950e4fdca48063d3b08d6d2b4f6bb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636928072002292906&sdata=RTsEnuz4TK9M0Mt%2FpNFD63smyaU2EzH7QMtCKgLewNk%3D&reserved=0>
 [9] -- object does not exist -- TotalperspectivevortM​„. It means on 9th line 
of file 
Fingernailviatpvtovortex2.th<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ffingernailviatpvtovortex2.th&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb1b950e4fdca48063d3b08d6d2b4f6bb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636928072002302911&sdata=eYCLCWDNIULi4v%2BlbEhDe6PGw7GmSKIz%2BV%2BhjIDi6GU%3D&reserved=0>
 is object TotalperspectivevortM but Therion doesn’t know the way to it.

You defined the station in equate command correct - 1.2@Totalperspectivevort  
(station_name@name_space)

Use the same way in your map definition

map tpv
TotalperspectivevortM​@Totalperspectivevort
break​
Vortex2M​@Totalperspectivevort
endmap​

Note: I after years started to name maps as x.map and scraps as 
.scrap just to see what is the object listed in definitions.

Martin Sluka

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[Therion] Maps of maps at lower level in survey tree

[alastair gott]

Hi Therion Mailing list,

I'm struggling with something after a surveying trip on Saturday (I've drawn 
everything up) but now want to strip the survey into lower and upper sections.

At present I can run the top level .th file and stripped down config file to 
get the survey tree out (so I could select surveys individually at a lower 
level).

However when I'm trying to use the code used in the Therion samples [installed 
on download].
therion/samples/map-offset/thconfig.4 it doesn't work.

Please find below my error message, .th and config files, does anyone know 
where i'm going wrong?

Error message
calculating basic statistics ... done
processing extended elevation ... done​
processing references ... ​
C:\Program Files (x86)\Therion\therion.exe: error -- 
Fingernailviatpvtovortex2.th [9] -- object does not exist -- 
TotalperspectivevortM​
writing xtherion file ... done​
C:\Program Files (x86)\Therion\therion.exe: warning -- error deleting temporary 
directory -- C:\Users\alastair\AppData\Local\Temp\th27304​
​
.th
survey Fingernailviatpvtovortex2
​
input Totalperspectivevort/Totalperspectivevort.th​
input Totpersfromfinger/Totpersfromfinger.th​
input Vortex2/Vortex2.th​
​
map tpv
TotalperspectivevortM​
break​
Vortex2M​
endmap​
​
map lower​
TotpersfromfingerM​
endmap​
​
centreline​
equate 1.7@Vortex2 1.2@Totalperspectivevort​
equate 1.0@Totalperspectivevort 1.6@Totpersfromfinger​
endcentreline​
​
endsurvey


Config file
source Fingernailviatpvtovortex2.th

source
#!CODE​
map Fingernailtovortex2​
  tpv​
  break​
  lower [-0 30 m] below​
endmap​
#!ENDCODE​
​
endsource



Regards,
Alastair Gott.

alastairg...@hotmail.com,
M: 07931779380.
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Re: [Therion] Showing qestion mark texts broken?

[alastair gott via Therion]

Hi Benedikt,

Adding a continuation ? should be a standard use of a TH2 file, check in:
points/All Symbols/Possible continuation/Type [continuation].

This should produce a ?, even without the code to produce the text as well. If 
it's not producing a ? then there's something going wrong before.

I've never tried adding continuation text, but I assume you're adding the text 
to the options box (much like producing a label). Options: -text "water too 
cold to continue" -code A

If you're not adding this to the options then this is what is causing your 
problems.

If it doesn't solve your problems, then we were having fun defining new rocks 
and Debris a couple of months ago. To insert these new icons, there were a few 
steps to go through.

The test example is on Wookey's website, so I can't take credit for that, but 
it does just reduce the problem of defining new symbols to a simple file, so is 
a good example for you to look at and work out. 
http://wookware.org/surveys/therion/index.html

In the Config file Wookey and Andrew defined the symbol in the layout. 
"Symbol-assign area debris TEST"

Then Initiated the Symbol within the Metapost wrapping "initsymbol 
("a_debris_TEST")

and then defined the symbol.

At present I think you may have only defined the symbol. So i'd advise also 
trying to define your continuation as def p_continuation_TEST(expr 
pos,theta,sc,al) =

Then above assigning the symbol
symbol-assign point continuation TEST

and then within your metapost wrapper initsymbol ("p_continuation_TEST")

By doing this, you should be able to turn on and off your "test" point 
continuation by # the symbol-assign line. as Wookey and Andrew did below for 
the AUT and SKBB blocks.

Do I make any sense?


---layout from wookeys Debris and rock
layout local
scale 1 100​
symbol-set NZSS​
symbol-hide group cave-centreline​
​
#copy blocksAUT​
#copy blocksSKBB​
​
symbol-assign area debris TEST​
symbol-assign area blocks TEST​
#symbol-assign area blocks AUT​
#symbol-assign area blocks SKBB​
​
​
code metapost​
​
initsymbol ("a_debris_TEST");​
initsymbol ("a_blocks_TEST");​
​
def a_blocks_TEST (expr p) =​
   T:=identity;​
  symbol_distance:=1.6;​
  scale_factor:= 0.8;​
  pickup PenC;​
  path q, qq; q = bbox p;​
  pair outside;​
  outside:= ulcorner q + up;​
  picture tmp_pic; ​
  uu := max(u, (xpart urcorner q - xpart llcorner q)/100, (ypart urcorner q - 
ypart llcorner q)/100);​
  tmp_pic := image(​
 for i = xpart llcorner q step symbol_distance*uu until xpart urcorner q:​
for j = ypart llcorner q step symbol_distance*uu until ypart urcorner 
q:​
   qq := punked 
(((-.5uu,-.5uu)--(.5uu,-.5uu)--(1.05uu,0.05uu)--(.5uu,.5uu)--(-.5uu,.5uu)--cycle)
 ​
   randomized (uu/2))​
   scaled (uniformdeviate(0.7)+scale_factor )​
   rotated uniformdeviate(360) ​
   shifted ((i,j) randomized 0.75uu);​
   if xpart (p intersectiontimes qq) < 0:​
 if pointinside((i,j),p,outside):​
   thclean qq;​
   thdraw qq;​
 fi;​
   else:​
 qq:= qq scaled (uniformdeviate(.2)+.5 )​
 if xpart (p intersectiontimes qq) < 0:​
   if pointinside((i,j),p,outside):​
 thclean qq;​
 thdraw qq;​
   fi;​
 fi;​
   fi;​
endfor;  ​
 endfor;​
  );​
  clip tmp_pic to p;​
  drawoptions();​
  draw tmp_pic;​
enddef;  ​
​
​
def a_debris_TEST (expr p) =​
  T:=identity;​
  pickup PenC;​
  path q, qq; q = bbox p;​
  picture tmp_pic; ​
  tmp_pic := image(​
for i = xpart llcorner q step u until xpart urcorner q:​
 for j = ypart llcorner q step u until ypart urcorner q:​
qq := punked ​
  (((-.2u,-.2u)--(.2u,-.2u)--(.2u,.2u)--(-.2u,.2u)--cycle) ​
 randomized (u/2))​
   rotated uniformdeviate(360) ​
   shifted ((i,j) randomized u);​
   if xpart (p intersectiontimes qq) < 0:​
thclean qq;​
thdraw qq;​
   fi;​
  endfor;  ​
    endfor;​
  );​
  clip tmp_pic to p;​
  draw tmp_pic;​
enddef;​
​
endcode​
​
​
endlayout​




Regards,
Alastair Gott.

alastairg...@hotmail.com,
M: 07931779380.

From: Therion  on behalf of Benedikt Hallinger via 
Therion 
Sent: 22 December 2018 11:12
To: List for Therion users
Cc: Benedikt Hallinger
Subject: [Therion] Showing qestion mark texts broken?

Hi,
i try to add a layout for showing the question mark texts.
For this i tried the additions from the websites:
a) 
https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftherion.speleo.sk%2Fsamples.doc%2F60.html&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0ca209370ddc495c109308d667ffbce5%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636810745412347133&sdata=WEN25vHGKS75bd2iOmYY8N3phCECVr

Re: [Therion] Add Coordinate data back at last level of Survey Hierarchy?

[alastair gott via Therion]

Hi Everyone,

It's solved, I found a way of commenting out enough of the information at a 
higher level in Survex to allow Therion to take a .3d file with the right 
amount of information that it can cope with. This means that the UTM30N data 
was running through Survex (for MarniosaOld) and this was the same cs that I 
was using for the Silvestre Data.

I'm sure I could use the Calibrate function, just as a case in point if you 
would like me to run it again with the limited .3d dataset to prove its use?

thanks for all the help, as a reward I've got a lovely KML file. 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1xIOHqp5ypJOUda_AZzf-ypYqArseJsAZ&usp=sharing

I'll need to tidy up the survey, as the KML is not coming out correctly. we've 
got a few things to solve when we return next year. but it adds to the fun.


  Regards,
 Alastair Gott.
 
 alastairg...@hotmail.com,
 M: 07931779380,
   



From: Therion  on behalf of Wookey via Therion 

Sent: 14 November 2018 22:59
To: Andrew Atkinson via Therion
Cc: Wookey
Subject: Re: [Therion] Add Coordinate data back at last level of Survey 
Hierarchy?
  

On 2018-11-14 20:36 +, Olly Betts via Therion wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 14, 2018 at 07:07:50PM +, Andrew Atkinson via Therion wrote:
> > I've not had time to play with this, since Alistair showed me the problem
> > on the weekend. The bit that I cannot get my head round is when 3d are
> > imported with a coordinate system, if a th centreline then connects 2 parts
> > of the survey from the 3d or an entrance coordinate is specified for the
> > 3d, how does this change, or can it change the coordinates of the data from
> > the 3d as the stations from this already has coordinates with little
> > information about the connections  [I hope that makes sense]
> 
> Survex .3d files record the coordinate system the data is in, if one was
> specified.  This was added in Survex 1.2.14 (released 2014-07-05).

Right, and that is metadata saying, effectively, 'the numbers in this
file should be considered to be in a co-ordinate system starting at
X,Y on the planet, oriented this way'.


> But looking at the therion source code, it appears therion never makes
> use of this information.  I suspect therion just hasn't been updated for
> Survex gaining coordinate system support.
> 
> You can specify the coordinate system as an option to therion's import
> command, so for now I guess that's what you have to do.

Right, but (if I understand this correctly), that option does not
change the numbers in the file. They must be valid for the cordinate
system given in the import command. This info effectively says where
the origin for the co-ordinates in the file are to be interpreted-as
(and stuff about axis angles).

So let's say that your survex data was processed in 'local' co-ordinates
so it just starts from 0,0 in arbitrary 'nowhere' co-ordinates.

What Alistair wants to do is read that in, but use it with therion
data that is in real-world co-ordinates (UTM30N).

The question is, can that be offset by some arbitrary number on
reading-in so that it appears in the right place in the UTM30
co-ordinate system? Is a rotation needed too?

Adding a rune to the line saying 'this is already in UTM30' will not
have the desired effect, because data in UTM30 doesn't necessarily
start from 0,0, and even if it did, his survey presumably needs to be
at some other co-ord withint that space.

The import -calibrate x y z X Y Z command looks like it should do the
right thing, so long as the axes are aligned, by shifting from x y z
to X Y Z. 

Wookey
-- 
Principal hats:  Linaro, Debian, Wookware, ARM
https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwookware.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C670640a1c1ed4a4e7bcd08d64a84fa34%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636778332323125751&sdata=nhNLhLsOQtUspK5BJMEYGjHCEXwPTIHWFA60VHl4L3Q%3D&reserved=0

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[Therion] Add Coordinate data back at last level of Survey Hierarchy?

[alastair gott via Therion]

HI,

I was trying to join a file [with Centreline driven by .3d data (.3d)] to 
another file [with centreline driven by my electronic surveying data (Elec)].

The .3d file seems to come with it's own coordinate system, so we needed to 
remove(#) the entrance coordinates, from the Elec data.

I have joined these two surveys in a .th file and successfully got an output. 
There are two entrances to the system.

So my question is, can I add back coordinate data for one (or more) Entrance(s) 
at the last level of the survey hierarchy? or will the mismatch between .3d and 
Elec prevent me from doing this?


 Regards,
 Alastair Gott.
 
 alastairg...@hotmail.com,
 M: 07931779380,
   
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[Therion] ***UNCHECKED*** Quick fix exporting from therion to SVG

[alastair gott via Therion]

Hi everyone,

Not an ideal situation, but is there a quick way of exporting from therion to 
SVG or a similar file format.

There is a legacy survey that we have found a new extension/entrance to, I have 
drawn the new cave in therion, but the rest is in a drawing package.

We're looking at quickly adding the therion file to the existing drawing. If 
there's no solution, then it's not too bad, I'll be with a load of therion 
boffins in a week and a half. And will probably be able to do it properly.


Regards,
Alastair Gott.

alastairg...@hotmail.com,
M: 07931779380,
A: 8 Earlston Avenue, Denton, Manchester M34 2LF.
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