Re: [Therion] Fwd: Re: How to calculate the volume of a cave

[Ben Cooper]

Thanks Bill. Wow that’s quite a difference between the two techniques!

I know such volume calculations are just an estimate but it would be a lovely 
feature to have in Therion!  

Sent from my iPhone

> On 29 Jan 2022, at 11:41, Bill Gee  wrote:
> 
> Hi Ben -
> 
> The data file I refer to is a Compass file containing centerline and LRUD 
> data from the cave.  It is not from either Therion or Survex.
> 
> In this case the cave is very small, only 50 meters, and there are only 14 
> survey stations.  Retyping it into a Compass data file did not take long.
> 
> Compass and MeshLab do very different calculations to come up with volume.  
> For my cave Compass gives about 2900 cubic feet and MeshLab gives over 20,000 
> cubic feet (about 585 cubic meters).  Compass is doing a simple calculation 
> based on polygons and using only centerline plus LRUD.  MeshLab is a much 
> more complex calculation based on a 3D model of triangles.  Ultimately its 
> calculation can be traces back to centerline, LRUD, walls, passage height 
> objects and cross sections.  Therion uses all of that to build a .lox file 
> which, through translations, becomes the MeshLab file.
> 
> 
> Bill Gee
> 
> 
>> On Saturday, January 29, 2022 3:42:33 AM CST Ben Cooper wrote:
>> Hi Bill, Torsten,
>> What is that file; is it a standard output file from Therion or Survex?
>> Best regards
>> Ben
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On 28 Jan 2022, at 12:57, Bill Gee  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Ha!  Torsten, you are a magician.  Thanks!
>>> 
>>> That was indeed exactly how I calculated this.  I had completely forgotten 
>>> about it.  Fortunately the data file still exists on my Windows virtual 
>>> machine, and Compass produces the number I need to defend.  I now know how 
>>> to reproduce the calculation.
>>> 
>>> Breathing a huge sigh of relief ...
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Bill Gee
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Friday, January 28, 2022 6:40:00 AM CST Torsten Schnitter wrote:
>>>> Hi Bill
>>>> 
>>>> May be you are looking for this ... !?
>>>> 
>>>> cheers,
>>>> Torsten
>>>> 
>>>>> -- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --
>>>>> Von: Bill Gee 
>>>>> An: therion@speleo.sk
>>>>> Datum: 14.08.2019 23:38
>>>>> Betreff: Re: [Therion] How to calculate the volume of a cave
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Update:  After poking around a bit, I discovered that Compass will 
>>>>> calculate cave volume based on centerline and LRUD data.  Doing that 
>>>>> means I have to run a Windows computer (ugh!) and type in the survey data 
>>>>> twice (double ugh!)  Fortunately the cave for which I need this is small.

___
Therion mailing list
Therion@speleo.sk
https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion

Re: [Therion] Fwd: Re: How to calculate the volume of a cave

[Ben Cooper]

Hi Bill, Torsten,
What is that file; is it a standard output file from Therion or Survex?
Best regards
Ben

Sent from my iPhone

> On 28 Jan 2022, at 12:57, Bill Gee  wrote:
> 
> Ha!  Torsten, you are a magician.  Thanks!
> 
> That was indeed exactly how I calculated this.  I had completely forgotten 
> about it.  Fortunately the data file still exists on my Windows virtual 
> machine, and Compass produces the number I need to defend.  I now know how to 
> reproduce the calculation.
> 
> Breathing a huge sigh of relief ...
> 
> 
> Bill Gee
> 
> 
>> On Friday, January 28, 2022 6:40:00 AM CST Torsten Schnitter wrote:
>> Hi Bill
>> 
>> May be you are looking for this ... !?
>> 
>> cheers,
>> Torsten
>> 
>>> -- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --
>>> Von: Bill Gee 
>>> An: therion@speleo.sk
>>> Datum: 14.08.2019 23:38
>>> Betreff: Re: [Therion] How to calculate the volume of a cave
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Update:  After poking around a bit, I discovered that Compass will 
>>> calculate cave volume based on centerline and LRUD data.  Doing that means 
>>> I have to run a Windows computer (ugh!) and type in the survey data twice 
>>> (double ugh!)  Fortunately the cave for which I need this is small.
>>> 
>>> Can this feature be added as a suggestion for future versions of Survex?
>>> 
>>> Compass does quite a few other calculations.  For example, it will 
>>> calculate the volume of the bounding box.  A sample report is attached.  It 
>>> is nice that the report is in both meters and feet.
>>> 
 Hi, I am also interested on volume calculation!
 
 Please keep me updated it!
 
> On 11 Aug 2019, at 22:22, Benedikt Hallinger  wrote:
> 
> It would be awesome if the compiler could derive this fron the loch model 
> and write it to the statistics block (the one where also loop closure 
> info and total west/east and north/south dimwnsions are returned) when 
> compiling this, as the neccessary data should be already present?
> 
>> Am 09.08.2019 um 14:58 schrieb Bill Gee :
>> 
>> Hello everyone - 
>> 
>> What tools can be used to calculate the volume of a cave based on center 
>> line and LRUD data?
>> 
>> I found an email from Martin Sluka from about 4 years ago describing how 
>> to use Loch to export a .lox file in other formats, then run that file 
>> through CloudCompare or ParaView.  The process looks very complex to me, 
>> and besides - Loch does not run on my computers, so there is no way for 
>> me to generate an export.
>> 
>> As far as I can tell, Survex does not have a way to calculate volume.
>> 
>> Could it be done with a KML file and Google Earth?
>> 
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion@speleo.sk
> https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
 
 ___
 Therion mailing list
 Therion@speleo.sk
 https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> Therion mailing list
>>> Therion@speleo.sk
>>> https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion@speleo.sk
> https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion

___
Therion mailing list
Therion@speleo.sk
https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion

Re: [Therion] Handling of tape and backtape in survey data

[Ben Cooper]

Hi Bill, et al,
I’ve always thought that backsites didn’t need specific handling as effectively 
they form a small loop so would be handled by the loop averaging. 

I don’t often do backsites, and get reasonable accuracy without (as good as 
0.5%, depending on conditions). But when I do I always do a full reading, 
indeed it would be hard not to with a DistoX-PDA “total station” as all the 
data is collected automatically. In fact for this setup, there is no way to 
mark a backsite as a backsite (or if there is, I’ve never used it!) and instead 
Toporobot just generates a new station for the backsite. I then manually 
“equate” these in the .th file, creating a loop, together with any actual 
loops. I usually do this after compiling the survey for the first time, as it’s 
fun to see on the 3d how close any two measured stations appear, and hence get 
a visual feel for the accuracy and where potential blunders might (eg 
mislabelling a station)

But now I’m wondering how Survex handles all these loops because if every leg 
has a backsite, then the number of loops increases, crumbs, very quickly.

Hmm, I can't even begin to work out how to count that mathematically. It’s very 
much smaller than nCr because the loops can only be made up of adjacent legs, 
eg for 5 legs, the loops generated between any three are only 1-2-3, 2-3-4, and 
3-4-5; nCr also counts 1-2-4, 1-2-5, etc, which are not loops. So while nCr 
quickly becomes uncomputable for even modest sizes of n, I don’t know if the 
number of loops also becomes uncomputable?

What does Survex actually do for all these loops?
Best regards
Ben

Sent from my iPhone

> On 25 Dec 2021, at 14:51, Bill Gee  wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone - 
> 
> I have a holiday question for the group.  We have for years done our survey 
> shots both directions, obtaining a forward and backward reading for both 
> compass and inclinometer.  The two readings are averaged by Survex and 
> Therion in an effort to reduce errors.  The tape reading, however, has only 
> been a single number.
> 
> Now that the use of DistoX2 devices is becoming common, it is easy to get a 
> distance measurement both forward and backward.  I have been ignoring the 
> backward distance reading in the field.  It does not get into my notes.  I 
> might need to change that practice.
> 
> I looked at the Survex manual yesterday and see that it supports both TAPE 
> and BACKTAPE (also called LENGTH and BACKLENGTH) in the survey data.  That 
> brings up two questions:
> 
> 1) Does Therion also recognize the BACKTAPE data type?
> 
> 2) What does Survex do if both TAPE and BACKTAPE are given?  Does it average 
> the two readings?  Does Therion do the same thing?
> 
> I understand that Therion will use Survex to reduce the centerline data - if 
> Survex is installed.  In case Survex is NOT installed, then Therion reduces 
> the centerline itself.  As a result they might handle this situation 
> differently.
> 
> As I write this, another related question occurred to me.  When either 
> Therion or Survex averages a forward and backward reading, how many 
> significant digits does it carry in the calculation?  Can the significant 
> digits be changed?
> 
> And the same question applies to loop closure calculations.  How many 
> significant digits are carried through the calculations?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Bill Gee
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion@speleo.sk
> https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion

___
Therion mailing list
Therion@speleo.sk
https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion

Re: [Therion] sort drawings authors

[Ben Cooper]

That’s a really nice layout file, Bruce!  I can never remember all those 
settings so really useful to have that captured in comments in the file. In 
fact wouldn’t it be great if a file like that was included in the installer 
distribution covering all the layout features with the default settings 
explicitly set. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 29 May 2021, at 23:14, Bruce Mutton  wrote:
> 
> 
> Yes Phil
> This functionality was added earlier this year (or was it last year?)
>  
> Here is a standard layout that I use.  The comments should give you a clue as 
> to functionality.
>  
> layout LayoutStatisticsNormal
> #---  List all participant statistics in order of 
> contribution but without detail
>   statistics explo all  # all/off/number   # names of 
> explorers, or 'number' most significant explorers
>   statistics explo-length hide  # on/hide/off# on=sort by length 
> and show, hide=and hide, off=alpha-sort
>   statistics topo all# all/off/number   # names of 
> survey team members
>   statistics topo-length hide   # on/hide/off # on=sort by length 
> and show, hide=and hide, off=alpha-sort
>   statistics carto all   # all/off/number   # names of 
> scrap authors
>   statistics carto-count hide# on/hide/off# on=sort by count 
> and show, hide=and hide, off=alpha-sort
>   statistics copyright all# all/off/number   # names of scrap 
> copyrights 
>   statistics copyright-count hide # on/hide/off# on=sort by count and 
> show, hide=and hide, off=alpha-sort   
> endlayout LayoutStatisticsNormal
>  
> There is information in the Therion Book pages 55 and 56.
> 
> 
> You may need to update to a more recent version if it is not in your Therion 
> Book.
>  
> Bruce
>  
> -Original Message-
> From: Therion  On Behalf Of Philippe Vernant
> Sent: Sunday, 30 May 2021 09:25
> To: List for Therion users 
> Subject: [Therion] sort drawings authors
>  
> Hello,
>  
> Is there a way to have the authors of the scraps sorted by the number / 
> length of drawings instead of alphabetical order? I’ve been looking in the 
> thbook but could not find anything on that question.
>  
> Thanks,
> Phil
>  
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion@speleo.sk
> https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion@speleo.sk
> https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
___
Therion mailing list
Therion@speleo.sk
https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion

Re: [Therion] Gradient out of range - does not process

[Ben Cooper]

That’s an interesting anecdote, thanks Andrew. Conversely I had a surveyor 
complete a traverse around my house, a distance of about 60m from about 6 legs, 
with a loop closure error of 3mm. He was reasonably pleased with that!  Also, 
mines are surveyed very accurately, eg consider the precision drilling 
described in the book Bad Ground by Tony Wright. So it would be interesting to 
understand why the Wookey Hole survey was so bad!  

I picked up an optical Theodolite from eBay for about £100. It’s a beautiful 
instrument, and I am interested in using it underground in the right setting. 

So it would be useful to be able to incorporate Theodolite angular measurements 
into the Therion or Survex network with appropriately small standard 
deviations, notwithstanding Andrew’s observation in Wookey, but they would have 
to be treated differently to magnetic bearings. 

Can anyone suggest the mathematical approach for doing that?  Apologies that’s 
very lazy of me to ask!

I did consider using an approach similar to Andrew’s, ie to calibrate the 
Theodolite against a magnetic leg, but intuitively that seems to tie the 
measurement to the inaccuracy of a single leg losing the benefit of error 
reduction across multiple measurements of the magnetic field (which is what 
happens in a magnetic traverse). It feels that somehow we need to use both 
techniques at the same time, using the Theodolite to “lock” the angle between 
legs while using the compass to align the survey to North. 

Andrew you might be able to see it more clearly than me, am I missing something?

Sent from my iPhone

> On 14 Dec 2020, at 20:38, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> Theodolites are not really set up for doing traverses, for a loop of a few 
>> hundred metres we have an mis-closure of about 1m. I would be disappointed 
>> if I was using a disto X. It seems to be par for the course. The show cave 
>> owners paid for a traverse when they where tunnelling. They claimed 
>> millimetre accuracy however were metres out. Lead to a bit of an arguement 
>> between the caver surveyors and the paid surveyors about Which direction to 
>> dig the tunnel. It was resolved when the tunnel broke through. Luckily the 
>> tunnelers listen to the cavers. 😁
> 
> Well, that saves me buying one (as if I could afford one). I was
> expecting them to be super-accurate, if calibrated properly. I'm
> assuming this is not a calibration issue though. Theodolite grades were
> always given as being so much higher than regular surveys, so this is
> quite eye-opening.
> 
> Presumably the existing "theodolite" mode you were referring to in
> Survex/Therion is designed for use with separate positioning and
> levelling, since levelling gives extremely high accuracy vertical
> position, so all you need then is the horizontal. (This is similar to
> how OS land surveys were traditionally done, with the horizontal and
> vertical surveys being almost entirely unrelated, and only tied in a few
> places for convenience.)
> 
> I will add a note that yes, out-of-range crazy numbers is actually
> normal with theodolite-style devices. Not just for inclination.
> Certainly there are some other surveys done with thodolites (both
> professional and home-made) where the compass bearing is over 360, with
> full wrap-around.
> 
> One other things I just learned from this thread;
> degrees:minutes:seconds is a supported format. Cute. Useful for optical
> theodolites which are actually accurate enough to measure in such tiny
> increments. Never seen it in a cave survey before.
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion@speleo.sk
> https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion

___
Therion mailing list
Therion@speleo.sk
https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion

Re: [Therion] Connection of Really straight mine level to surveyed passage

[Ben Cooper]

Hi Alistair
I would definitely link all the survey centrelines. The implication is that you 
have some errors in the survey, but you know that the straight mine level needs 
to be straight so the error isn’t there. One thing you could try is to set the 
SD for the level to be very low, and the SD for the rest of the cave to be 
quite high. When Therion distributes the error, most of this should go to the 
survey sections either the highest SD, and the level should be less distorted. 
Best regards 
Ben


Sent from my iPhone

> On 14 Nov 2020, at 11:49, alastair gott  wrote:
> 
> HI Therion people,
> 
> I'm helping with a project we've got a cave/mine system with a really 
> straight mine level for one of the entrances, which we have the centreline 
> data for (but no sketches to show where the points are).
> 
> When the system was joined up together with all the entrances there was a 
> kink in the mine level. so to counteract this, I removed some of the unknown 
> survey points in the centre of the level and hung the survey on some points 
> at the beginning and end of the level.
> 
> I now want to add in a section of cave in the centre of the level. I have 
> connected this quite well in a map at a lower level with just the one 
> entrance coordinates in it, but when I run the full map with all the 
> entrances in, the model then tries to remove the loop error by doing it's 
> statisical wizardry.
> 
> Unfortunately in doing so, it shifts the start of the level (the entrance) to 
> the east. and then leaves the section of cave out unconnected.
> 
> If anyone can help, then the config for the full system is here: 
> http://www.cave-registry.org.uk/svn/PeakDistrict/Castleton/peak_speedwell_model/
> 
> This is what I get:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the config for the one entrance coordinate is here: 
> http://www.cave-registry.org.uk/svn/PeakDistrict/Castleton/peak_speedwell_model/speedwell_mine/Speedwell_mine_thconfig.thc
> 
> and these are the two selects if you want to run it at the lower level:
> select bottomless_pit.speedwell_mine
> select oakden_level.speedwell_mine
> This is what I want:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I add in a survey point to hook it to, then I get this:
> 
> 
> 
> Rather than this:
> 
> 
> 
> Adding in more survey points further down the passage to the south only 
> increases the amount of distortion in a small space of passage. as there are 
> three loop closures at the bottom of the picture [just below the red circle) 
> which the model is running (i've just not included the maps on the drawing 
> for clarity).
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Alastair Gott.
> 
> alastairg...@hotmail.com,
> M: 07931779380.
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion@speleo.sk
> https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
___
Therion mailing list
Therion@speleo.sk
https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion

Re: [Therion] Survey without clino

[Ben Cooper]

Hi Anton
When I’ve had to do that in the past, I just entered “0” for the clino. It’s 
the same effect I think as what you are asking of Therion, ie to default clino 
to zero. 
Best regards
Ben

Sent from my iPhone

> On 14 Jul 2020, at 17:34, Anton van Rosmalen  wrote:
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> How do I enter survey data made without a clinometer. I just thought entering 
> data like dive data would work but apparently diving only takes place under 
> water in Therion
> 
> It doesn't matter whether I enter fromdepth todepth data negative or 
> positive, it doesn't matter if I add calibrate depth 0 -1 before the data 
> the following line just goes down where it should be going up:
> 
> 
> So this:
> 
>data diving from to tape compass fromdepth todepth left right up down
> 
>r112h1   7.0010.00   0.005.00   2.00   0.00   8.00   0.00
> 
> Produces the same results as this:
> 
>data diving from to tape compass fromdepth todepth left right up down
> 
>calibrate depth 0 -1
> 
>r112h1   7.0010.00   0.005.00   2.00   0.00   8.00   0.00
> 
> And the same results as this:
> 
>data diving from to tape compass fromdepth todepth left right up down
> 
>r112h1   7.0010.00   0.00-5.00   2.00   0.00   8.00   0.00
> 
> Where it should be something somewhat comparable to this:
> 
>data normal from to length compass clino
>0 1 5.53 5.5 24.5
> 
> I looked at various manuals and examples, but they all assume you have a 
> disto or some other clinometer.
> 
> What extremely simple point am I too moronic to understand here?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Anton
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion@speleo.sk
> https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion

___
Therion mailing list
Therion@speleo.sk
https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion

Re: [Therion] Detecting errors

[Ben Cooper]

>Took your advice to heart and calibrated without helmet. Much better!

My non-surveyor assistants are usually dismayed when I ask them to remove 
everything!

 

Apologies, I misunderstood what you meant by display to the left and right.  I 
think I see what you mean now, the following drawing portrays the issue with a 
Disto sitting on top of one station, and pointing to another.  The two stations 
are horizontally aligned, but the Disto is pointing down.  The angular error 
will be the angle subtended by the height of the laser beam above the station 
(3.3 cm or 1.2 cm for my DistoX, depending on orientation).  If the error is 
2-degrees, then this suggests the distance is 94cm  (=3.3cm / tan(2.0)) – 
that’s a very short leg.  At 5m, this error reduces to 0.4-degrees, within the 
calibration error of the device.



In practice, I find legs of 5m to 8m produce the best surveys – much more than 
that and it is hard to accurately hit the target station with the laser beam, 
much less and errors like this “position” error start to get too big.  
Alternatively, when taking short legs, make sure that the “back” projection of 
the laser beam is as closely aligned to the station as possible – often easy to 
do for example when taking a shot from one wall across the passage to the 
opposite wall.  

 

Being aware of this issue should help surveyors choose better station 
positions, especially for short legs.  

 

The gadget shown in other emails would help, but only in certain circumstance – 
eg shots along the wall still suffer from this issue.  

- Ben



oledata.mso
Description: Binary data


image003.wmz
Description: application/ms-wmz
___
Therion mailing list
Therion@speleo.sk
https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion

Re: [Therion] Detecting errors

[Ben Cooper]

An error of 3 degrees in clino does indicate a device out of calibration.  I 
would expect it to be within 0.5 degrees for a well calibrated device, and 
would not tolerate more than 1 degree.  In my experience poor calibration is 
usually down to either just inaccurate calibration shots, or local magnetic 
anomalies: take off watch, step counter, metal belt buckle, jewellery, glasses, 
helmet, lights, steel toe caps, etc!!

Sent from my iPhone

> On 5 Sep 2019, at 12:10, Max D  wrote:
> 
> So I know that if the display is to the right the Disto tends to reassure an 
> Azimuth 2 degrees to high and if the display is to the left.
> And when the display is to the left it tends to give an Azimuth 1 degree to 
> low.
> 
> But perhaps I just should try to do more and better calibrations instead of 
> fixing stuff afterwards.

___
Therion mailing list
Therion@speleo.sk
https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion

Re: [Therion] Wanted: Flag to exclude certain legs from loop closure algorithm

[Ben Cooper via Therion]

Hi Michael,
You can use the SD flags to achieve that, effectively setting the error on 
those shots to be zero. 
Best regards
Ben

Sent from my iPhone

> On 14 Jun 2018, at 09:44, Michael via Therion  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> When therion detects loops, it applies a loop closure algorithm, which 
> distributes the error across all legs of a loop.
> 
> Is there a command or flag to exclude certain legs (i.e. centerline segments) 
> from loop closure algorithm, so that they are not
> changed?
> 
> I searched the Therion book and the Wiki FAQ, but couldn't find that 
> information.
> 
> Michael
> 
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion@speleo.sk
> https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion

___
Therion mailing list
Therion@speleo.sk
https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion

Re: [Therion] DXF output

[Ben Cooper via Therion]

Hi Bruce,

I was using Therion 5.3.11, so will update and try again!

Many thanks,

Ben

 

From: Therion [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Bruce Mutton
via Therion
Sent: 03 November 2017 08:32
To: 'List for Therion users'
Cc: Bruce Mutton
Subject: Re: [Therion] DXF output

 

Hi Ben

As Markus says, impressive shots for a distoX.  Very long if is really in
metres.

I compiled your example, after commenting out the th2 reference, and it
compiles fine, I have attached the .3d, survey list and dxf outputs.

They look to faithfully reproduce the data.  If I open the dxf in
DraftSight, it dimensions the lines exactly as in the .th file.

 

Opening the .dxf files you supplied, I also get no image for o1.dxf, and the
dimensions for lines in o1M.dxf are 100x shorter.

So there is some problem with your output files that I cannot reproduce by
compiling your o1.th and thconfig.dat files.

 

Bruce

Therion 5.4.1+4369eea

Survex 1.2.32

 

From: Therion [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Markus Boldt
via Therion
Sent: Friday, 3 November 2017 11:26 AM
To: 'List for Therion users' 
Cc: Markus Boldt 
Subject: Re: [Therion] DXF output

 

Hi Ben, 

is it right - you give the lenght in meters? Then the distance from point to
point is very long? A huge cave? There are Kilometers by some mesurements?

Regards 

Markus

 

 

Von: Therion [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] Im Auftrag von Ben Cooper
via Therion
Gesendet: Sonntag, 22. Oktober 2017 10:33
An: List for Therion users
Cc: Ben Cooper
Betreff: [Therion] DXF output

 

I'm struggling to output a DXF format map and model from Therion.  I've
found that the map export does not load into two different DXF viewers, both
giving no errors but showing nothing.  The model output works, but is
100-times too small (ie the default unit appears to be cm rather than m).
Can anyone provide any advice what I might be doing wrong?

Many thanks,

Ben

___
Therion mailing list
Therion@speleo.sk
https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion

Re: [Therion] DXF output

[Ben Cooper via Therion]

Hi Markus,

Apologies, the original file was in metres.  I changed it to centimetres
wondering if that was the problem.  I thought I had included the original
file in my email, so sorry for confusion.

Best regards,

Ben 

 

From: Therion [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Markus Boldt
via Therion
Sent: 02 November 2017 22:26
To: 'List for Therion users'
Cc: Markus Boldt
Subject: Re: [Therion] DXF output

 

Hi Ben, 

is it right - you give the lenght in meters? Then the distance from point to
point is very long? A huge cave? There are Kilometers by some mesurements?

Regards 

Markus

 

 

Von: Therion [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] Im Auftrag von Ben Cooper
via Therion
Gesendet: Sonntag, 22. Oktober 2017 10:33
An: List for Therion users
Cc: Ben Cooper
Betreff: [Therion] DXF output

 

I'm struggling to output a DXF format map and model from Therion.  I've
found that the map export does not load into two different DXF viewers, both
giving no errors but showing nothing.  The model output works, but is
100-times too small (ie the default unit appears to be cm rather than m).
Can anyone provide any advice what I might be doing wrong?

Many thanks,

Ben

___
Therion mailing list
Therion@speleo.sk
https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion

[Therion] DXF output

[Ben Cooper via Therion]

I'm struggling to output a DXF format map and model from Therion.  I've
found that the map export does not load into two different DXF viewers, both
giving no errors but showing nothing.  The model output works, but is
100-times too small (ie the default unit appears to be cm rather than m).
Can anyone provide any advice what I might be doing wrong?

Many thanks,

Ben



o1.dxf
Description: Binary data


o1M.dxf
Description: Binary data


o1.th
Description: Binary data


thconfig
Description: Binary data
___
Therion mailing list
Therion@speleo.sk
https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion

[Therion] Theodolite data

[Ben Cooper via Therion]

Is there a way to incorporate Theodolite data into Therion?  

Many thanks,

Ben

___
Therion mailing list
Therion@speleo.sk
https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion

Re: [Therion] weight on distorsion depending on survey

[Ben Cooper via Therion]

Hi Phil,
Yes, you can do that by setting the standard deviation for the survey as a 
whole, and then for each leg that requires it.

From the Therion book:

sd◃ sets the standard deviation for the given
measurements. The Quantity list can contain the following keywords: length, 
tape,
bearing, compass, gradient, clino, counter, depth, x, y, z, position, easting, 
dx, northing,
dy, altitude, dz.

The sd command affects all following legs, so for a single leg, remember to set 
the sd back to your default again, eg:-
sd compass 5 degrees
sd clino 2 degree
1 2 209 10.88 -4
sd compass clino 0.5 degrees

A small difference in SD makes a big difference in the distribution of error, 
so suggest experiment with different values.
Best regards,
Ben

-Original Message-
From: Therion [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Philippe Vernant 
via Therion
Sent: 14 February 2017 23:34
To: List for Therion users
Cc: Philippe Vernant
Subject: [Therion] weight on distorsion depending on survey

Hi guys,

Could not find the answer, so popping up to ask you the question. Is there a 
way to say that one survey should bear most on the distorsion ? I have a diving 
survey which is less accurate than the “regular” surveys, can I put some weight 
on that survey so it will be more distorted ?

Thanks,
Phil

___
Therion mailing list
Therion@speleo.sk
https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion

___
Therion mailing list
Therion@speleo.sk
https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion

[Therion] Grid coord label placement problems

[Ben Cooper]

It's a fudge, but I solve this problem by placing fixed stations at the two 
opposing corners of the area you want to include.  The stations are partially 
hidden by the grid, so are not too noticeable.
Ben

Sent from my iPhone

> On 30 Sep 2015, at 01:39, Bruce Mutton  wrote:
> 
> Absolutely agree Jenny. But no solution at my end.
> And the issues compound when the plan is rotated on the page.  For me the 
> first solution to find is to get each component of the coordinate to align 
> parallel with it's gridline.
> 
>  I have searched for the code that controls this in the past without luck.
> Bruce 
> Sent from my Samsung device
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk
> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

[Therion] Declination and the cs command

[Ben Cooper]

Yes please - that would help a problem I have with the Upper Flood data
where much of the "old" data is declined against Grid North, and hence all
my "new" data has also been delcined to Grid North too.  When I add the CS
option, the data is rotated by 0.55 degrees (the Grid to True difference in
UK).

(First posted Feb 2011 under subjects "CS and grid alignmenrt" and "grid
alignment rotation")
Ben


  _  

From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] On Behalf
Of Stacho Mudrak
Sent: 11 October 2012 16:49
To: List for Therion users
Subject: Re: [Therion] Declination and the cs command


Do you mean adding some option, that would specify, that given declination
is not against true but grid north? 

S.

-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

[Therion] symbol-show fixed points / point text

[Ben Cooper]

Of course you can define as many attr xyz as you need, and create different
layout definitions to select them at will.
- Ben


  _  

From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] On Behalf
Of Bruce
Sent: 02 December 2011 09:43
To: 'List for Therion users'
Subject: Re: [Therion] symbol-show fixed points / point text



That looks good Ben

Seems like 'we' have full control now.



Although ultimately it would be good to move away from having to modify each
station with text in the th2 files each time we wanted to toggle the output
of text for individual point types (mark or flag), and move towards putting
this type of control back into the layout files.



A symbol-show, symbol-hide that pertained to the text comment for stations
with specific mark and flag combinations would perhaps be ideal.



So we could have control of printing each of the three components of station
individually (mark, flag symbol, text) dependant on the mark and flag status
of each point.



Of course having a fourth controlling factor or override, ATTR_print, as you
have come up with is useful as well.



Bruce




  _  


From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] On Behalf
Of Ben Cooper
Sent: Friday, 2 December 2011 9:59 a.m.
To: 'List for Therion users'
Subject: Re: [Therion] symbol-show fixed points / point text



Hi Bruce,

Here is my re-defined p_station code that now works.  For each station that
you want to print the text for, set attr print "true" in the th2 file as I
illustrated in my earlier email.  If you want to turn off printing you can
set the text to "false".  This works for any station, no matter what its
subtype or flags that are set.  The code is as follows:

layout l_p_station_text
 code metapost
  def p_station(expr pos,mark,txt)(text flags) =

   % draw default station
   p_station_SKBB(pos, mark, txt, flags);

   % now print the text
   if picture(txt):
  picture ATTR__text;
  ATTR__text := txt;

  if known(ATTR_print):
if (ATTR_print="true"):
if not numeric txt:
 p_smartlabel(txt,pos);
else:
 % draw filled label with text next
 p_label.urt(ATTR__text,(.5u,-.25u) transformed T,0.0,8);
fi;
fi;
  fi;
  save ATTR__text;
fi;

  enddef;
 endcode   
endlayout





-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<http://mailman.speleo.sk/pipermail/therion/attachments/20111202/c81191b0/attachment.html>

[Therion] symbol-show fixed points / point text

[Ben Cooper]

Hi Bruce,
Here is my re-defined p_station code that now works.  For each station that
you want to print the text for, set attr print "true" in the th2 file as I
illustrated in my earlier email.  If you want to turn off printing you can
set the text to "false".  This works for any station, no matter what its
subtype or flags that are set.  The code is as follows:

layout l_p_station_text
 code metapost
  def p_station(expr pos,mark,txt)(text flags) =

   % draw default station
   p_station_SKBB(pos, mark, txt, flags);

   % now print the text
   if picture(txt):
  picture ATTR__text;
  ATTR__text := txt;

  if known(ATTR_print):
if (ATTR_print="true"):
if not numeric txt:
 p_smartlabel(txt,pos);
else:
 % draw filled label with text next
 p_label.urt(ATTR__text,(.5u,-.25u) transformed T,0.0,8);
fi;
fi;
  fi;
  save ATTR__text;
fi;
  enddef;
 endcode   
endlayout






  _  

From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] On Behalf
Of Ben Cooper
Sent: 01 December 2011 19:56
To: 'List for Therion users'
Subject: Re: [Therion] symbol-show fixed points / point text


Hi Bruce,
I've solved the problem - obvious really - I need to use p_station, not
p_station_SKBB.  I'll send the example through later - I need to copy it off
another computer.
Regards,
- Ben


  _  

From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] On Behalf
Of Ben Cooper
Sent: 30 November 2011 22:35
To: 'List for Therion users'
Subject: Re: [Therion] symbol-show fixed points / point text


Hi Bruce,
You beat me to it!  I've spent the last few days learning metapost and
rummaging around the bowels of the Therion's source code and have more or
less got to what you have summarised below.  I also spotted the smartlabel,
though haven't yet tried it in the re-definition of p_continuation.  

I surmise that stations with fixed co-ordinates are not exported by Therion
in any detectable way; while the th2 mark "fixed" is exported as "mark", and
the th2 flags are exported as "flags".  The items that are exported are
accessible in metapost.  In the debug output data.mp file, I saw that "attr
code" is exported by Therion as ATTR_code, where "code" is whatever attr has
been declated in the th2 file.  Note that it only has one "_" whereas
ATTR__text has two "_".   So one thing I tried that did work is to print the
value of my user define attr statements instead of the text, which is
potentially quite useful, as I can display a short code, and use
continuation.html for the longer description.  However, this still relies on
having the "continuation" flag set.  

I used the following re-definition of p_continuation using ATTR_code instead
of the example's ATTR__text, as follows

**THE FOLLOWING WORKS**
 code metapost
  def p_continuation(expr pos,theta,sc,al) =
   % draw default continuation symbol
   p_continuation_UIS(pos,theta,sc,al);

   % if attr code is set
   if known(ATTR_code):

% set labeling color to light orange
push_label_fill_color(1.0, 0.9, 0.8);

% draw filled label with text next to ?
p_label.urt(ATTR_code,(.5u,-.25u) transformed T,0.0,8);

% restore original labeling color
pop_label_fill_color;
   fi;
  enddef;
 endcode  

Looking at p_station_SKBB, the problem you and I are facing is that it's
only for the "continuation" flags that ATTR__text has been set.  It occurred
to me that if it was possible to refedine p_station_SKBB in the thconfig
file, then it would be possible to output ATTR__text if an "attr code" has
been declared in the th2 file.  

For example, th2 file:-
station 1 "Some text to output" entrance attr print "true"

My example p_station_SKBB is below.  Unfortunately, I've so far not managed
to see it being executed.  I can see it appear in the data.mp debug file,
but the changes I've made to it don't appear to work - the text is not yet
being output to my pdf file. Also, I don't understand yet the purpose of the
metapost "save" command, and the manual doesn't really shed much light on
it!  So it's possible that I've just not yet properly understood metapost
syntax.  



-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<http://mailman.speleo.sk/pipermail/therion/attachments/20111201/eb154185/attachment.html>

[Therion] symbol-show fixed points / point text

[Ben Cooper]

Hi Bruce,
I've solved the problem - obvious really - I need to use p_station, not
p_station_SKBB.  I'll send the example through later - I need to copy it off
another computer.
Regards,
- Ben


  _  

From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] On Behalf
Of Ben Cooper
Sent: 30 November 2011 22:35
To: 'List for Therion users'
Subject: Re: [Therion] symbol-show fixed points / point text


Hi Bruce,
You beat me to it!  I've spent the last few days learning metapost and
rummaging around the bowels of the Therion's source code and have more or
less got to what you have summarised below.  I also spotted the smartlabel,
though haven't yet tried it in the re-definition of p_continuation.  

I surmise that stations with fixed co-ordinates are not exported by Therion
in any detectable way; while the th2 mark "fixed" is exported as "mark", and
the th2 flags are exported as "flags".  The items that are exported are
accessible in metapost.  In the debug output data.mp file, I saw that "attr
code" is exported by Therion as ATTR_code, where "code" is whatever attr has
been declated in the th2 file.  Note that it only has one "_" whereas
ATTR__text has two "_".   So one thing I tried that did work is to print the
value of my user define attr statements instead of the text, which is
potentially quite useful, as I can display a short code, and use
continuation.html for the longer description.  However, this still relies on
having the "continuation" flag set.  

I used the following re-definition of p_continuation using ATTR_code instead
of the example's ATTR__text, as follows

**THE FOLLOWING WORKS**
 code metapost
  def p_continuation(expr pos,theta,sc,al) =
   % draw default continuation symbol
   p_continuation_UIS(pos,theta,sc,al);

   % if attr code is set
   if known(ATTR_code):

% set labeling color to light orange
push_label_fill_color(1.0, 0.9, 0.8);

% draw filled label with text next to ?
p_label.urt(ATTR_code,(.5u,-.25u) transformed T,0.0,8);

% restore original labeling color
pop_label_fill_color;
   fi;
  enddef;
 endcode  

Looking at p_station_SKBB, the problem you and I are facing is that it's
only for the "continuation" flags that ATTR__text has been set.  It occurred
to me that if it was possible to refedine p_station_SKBB in the thconfig
file, then it would be possible to output ATTR__text if an "attr code" has
been declared in the th2 file.  

For example, th2 file:-
station 1 "Some text to output" entrance attr print "true"

My example p_station_SKBB is below.  Unfortunately, I've so far not managed
to see it being executed.  I can see it appear in the data.mp debug file,
but the changes I've made to it don't appear to work - the text is not yet
being output to my pdf file. Also, I don't understand yet the purpose of the
metapost "save" command, and the manual doesn't really shed much light on
it!  So it's possible that I've just not yet properly understood metapost
syntax.  

This is the sort of thing I've got in mind 

** WARNING, THE FOLLOWING IS NOT YET WORKING **
def p_station_SKBB(expr pos,mark,txt)(text flags) =
  T:=identity shifted pos;

  if mark=4: p_station_fixed(pos)
  elseif mark=3: p_station_natural(pos)
  elseif mark=2: p_station_painted(pos)
  elseif mark=1: p_station_temporary(pos)
  fi;

  path path_cave;
  path_cave = (-.3u,-.25u) -- (-.2u,-.25u){dir 135} .. (0, .25u) .. {dir
225}(.2u,-.25u) -- (.3u,-.25u);
  for i=flags:
  % ... etc.  No change to contents of for-loop
  endfor;

   % if the "print" attribute is set to true, display the text
   if known (ATTR_print) and ATTR_print="true":
  if picture(txt):
picture ATTR__text;
ATTR__text := txt;
% set labeling color to light orange
push_label_fill_color(1.0, 0.9, 0.8);

% draw filled label with text next to ?
p_label.urt(ATTR__text,(.5u,-.25u) transformed T,0.0,8);

% restore original labeling color
pop_label_fill_color;
save ATTR__text;
  fi;
%  thdraw (0,0) withpen PenX withcolor red;
enddef;

You're welcome to try it to see if you can get it to work!
Regards,
- Ben





  _  

From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] On Behalf
Of Bruce
Sent: 29 November 2011 18:20
To: 'List for Therion users'
Subject: Re: [Therion] symbol-show fixed points / point text



Ben

I think the following (dumped below) from the therion sources
mpost\thPoint.mp holds the solution to what we are looking for.  And I think
the smartlabel is the wonderous self organising label routine.  I have not
had time to verify all this however.

Stacho tried to point me to it
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gis.therion/2468/match=symbol+show+fixed
+p

[Therion] symbol-show fixed points / point text

[Ben Cooper]

Hi Bruce,
You beat me to it!  I've spent the last few days learning metapost and
rummaging around the bowels of the Therion's source code and have more or
less got to what you have summarised below.  I also spotted the smartlabel,
though haven't yet tried it in the re-definition of p_continuation.  

I surmise that stations with fixed co-ordinates are not exported by Therion
in any detectable way; while the th2 mark "fixed" is exported as "mark", and
the th2 flags are exported as "flags".  The items that are exported are
accessible in metapost.  In the debug output data.mp file, I saw that "attr
code" is exported by Therion as ATTR_code, where "code" is whatever attr has
been declated in the th2 file.  Note that it only has one "_" whereas
ATTR__text has two "_".   So one thing I tried that did work is to print the
value of my user define attr statements instead of the text, which is
potentially quite useful, as I can display a short code, and use
continuation.html for the longer description.  However, this still relies on
having the "continuation" flag set.  

I used the following re-definition of p_continuation using ATTR_code instead
of the example's ATTR__text, as follows

**THE FOLLOWING WORKS**
 code metapost
  def p_continuation(expr pos,theta,sc,al) =
   % draw default continuation symbol
   p_continuation_UIS(pos,theta,sc,al);

   % if attr code is set
   if known(ATTR_code):

% set labeling color to light orange
push_label_fill_color(1.0, 0.9, 0.8);

% draw filled label with text next to ?
p_label.urt(ATTR_code,(.5u,-.25u) transformed T,0.0,8);

% restore original labeling color
pop_label_fill_color;
   fi;
  enddef;
 endcode  

Looking at p_station_SKBB, the problem you and I are facing is that it's
only for the "continuation" flags that ATTR__text has been set.  It occurred
to me that if it was possible to refedine p_station_SKBB in the thconfig
file, then it would be possible to output ATTR__text if an "attr code" has
been declared in the th2 file.  

For example, th2 file:-
station 1 "Some text to output" entrance attr print "true"

My example p_station_SKBB is below.  Unfortunately, I've so far not managed
to see it being executed.  I can see it appear in the data.mp debug file,
but the changes I've made to it don't appear to work - the text is not yet
being output to my pdf file. Also, I don't understand yet the purpose of the
metapost "save" command, and the manual doesn't really shed much light on
it!  So it's possible that I've just not yet properly understood metapost
syntax.  

This is the sort of thing I've got in mind 

** WARNING, THE FOLLOWING IS NOT YET WORKING **
def p_station_SKBB(expr pos,mark,txt)(text flags) =
  T:=identity shifted pos;

  if mark=4: p_station_fixed(pos)
  elseif mark=3: p_station_natural(pos)
  elseif mark=2: p_station_painted(pos)
  elseif mark=1: p_station_temporary(pos)
  fi;

  path path_cave;
  path_cave = (-.3u,-.25u) -- (-.2u,-.25u){dir 135} .. (0, .25u) .. {dir
225}(.2u,-.25u) -- (.3u,-.25u);
  for i=flags:
  % ... etc.  No change to contents of for-loop
  endfor;

   % if the "print" attribute is set to true, display the text
   if known (ATTR_print) and ATTR_print="true":
  if picture(txt):
picture ATTR__text;
ATTR__text := txt;
% set labeling color to light orange
push_label_fill_color(1.0, 0.9, 0.8);

% draw filled label with text next to ?
p_label.urt(ATTR__text,(.5u,-.25u) transformed T,0.0,8);

% restore original labeling color
pop_label_fill_color;
save ATTR__text;
  fi;
%  thdraw (0,0) withpen PenX withcolor red;
enddef;

You're welcome to try it to see if you can get it to work!
Regards,
- Ben





  _  

From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] On Behalf
Of Bruce
Sent: 29 November 2011 18:20
To: 'List for Therion users'
Subject: Re: [Therion] symbol-show fixed points / point text



Ben

I think the following (dumped below) from the therion sources
mpost\thPoint.mp holds the solution to what we are looking for.  And I think
the smartlabel is the wonderous self organising label routine.  I have not
had time to verify all this however.

Stacho tried to point me to it
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gis.therion/2468/match=symbol+show+fixed
+points+text but I did not follow up on it.



The first definition below is the code for drawing the ? symbol of a
continuation point. You just need to replace the thdraw statements with the
symbol you would like.  Don't ask me how - my approach is to trawl the rest
of the therion code for a symbol I like and perhaps tweak it a little.



The second shows how mark is used to decide what station 'x' mark to use,
and then how the flags control how the secondary symbols are added. The %%
comments are mine, so may not be correct.  It shows that station comment
text is only added if the station is flagged entrance.



I think moving the smartlabel into all but the stat

[Therion] Self adjusting label positions and missing point +s

[Ben Cooper]

That is a wonderous thing!  Is it possible to use this self-organising
feature to make the text of continuations display without overlapping each
other?
Regards,
- Ben


  _  

From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] On Behalf
Of Bruce
Sent: 13 February 2011 19:13
To: 'List for Therion users'
Subject: [Therion] Self adjusting label positions and missing point +s



I have just discovered a wonderous thing.  Where surface points in a survey
centreline are included in a map, the labels will self organise so that they
don't overlap. See example 1 and 2 attached.

This effect goes away I think when the points are included in a scrap.

It also does not have effect between separate map objects.



Is this default therion behaviour, or is it directly inherited from tex?

Could it be implemented in outputs derived from scrap drawings?



Now on to my short-term deadline question!

Why might example 1 have +s in on all the points and example 2 have all the
+s missing?

I have not done any redefinition of points (unless by accident, and then
they should be identical), and I think my symbol-show, symbol-hides are
similar (though not the same I admit).

Both the images are from the same dataset, just in different regions a few
km apart, and also in different parallel branches of the survey structure,
so somewhat independent of each other.

Both have caves displayed in a similar manner to example 2, it's just that
the caves in example 1 were not included in the screenshot.

As you can see, the map structure in example 1 is very simple (the old paper
cave map was traced in outline only in therion), whereas example 2 has
perhaps 100 maps as it is a 15km cave drawn entirely with therion.  I have
turned off the layers which would have made the image confusing.



Any guesses as to which symbol-show (or other statement) directly effects
the + part of the point symbol, as I would like to show them in both cases?

I'm also still looking for a way to show the labels for fixed points (and
leave other point labels unaffected).  What is the 'property' that Loch uses
to make the distinction in it's data file?



Bruce

-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

[Therion] symbol-show fixed points / point text

[Ben Cooper]

Bruce, Andrew, et al,
I noticed your posts from February about this topic, which I also happen to
be struggling with at the moment.  I'm trying to produce two maps, one
showing fixed survey stations and another showing continuations.

In particular, I'm a bit confused about the subtle difference between the
'mark', 'flags', and 'station' commands in centreline, and the various point
commands in scrap.  How are these related in metapost, and how can I
distinguish between them in selecting what is displayed?  As with Bruce's
"concrete water trough" below, I'd rather not have to use the "continuation"
flag just to get the text to display.  Any suggestions?

I have made some progress by using the "continuation" flag for both my
needs, but it's not ideal, and I had trouble getting it to work.  

I'm currently using the 
  mark  fixed and 
  station  "text" continuation 
in the centreline, but it also seems to work for the point continuation in
the scrap. 

In the thconfig layout I've used:
 symbol-hide group all
 symbol-show line wall # seems to be needed to force display of the cave
itself
 symbol-show point station:painted
 symbol-show point station:fixed
 symbol-show point station:natural
 symbol-show point flag:continuation

To display the text I've then used, as per thbook.  
code metapost

  def p_continuation(expr pos,theta,sc,al) = ...etc

I'd like to be able to use a different symbol to the question mark for my
fixed stations, but I don't know how to do that.

To get the points to display, I found I had to use the -stations option in
the 'scrap' command, even if the scrap included the station already!  I'm
not sure why this is so, but it works.  It also gave me an idea to create an
"overlay" scrap, that includes nothing other than the -stations option (plus
a couple of point stations to calibrate the scale and avoid the "scrap too
large" error).  I've got two such scrap files, one called "fixed" and the
other called "continuations", and it seems to be working.  
In my source file, I've added two map definitions 

   map Map_mFixedStations 
 UF_mFixed
 preview below UF_m1
   endmap
and
   map Map_Continuations 
 UF_mContinuations
 preview below UF_m1
   endmap

where UF_m1 is the master map of the whole cave, UF_mFixed is a map
containing the Fixed point scrap, and UF_mContinuations is the map
containing the Continuations scrap.  It might be that because of the preview
below, I no longer need symbol-hide all, but I haven't tried that yet.  

In this way I can select the various different points to show in each
overlay.  The limitation is that I can't have a station that is both a fixed
station and a continuation; and I have to manually search my whole cave
survey to manually identify all of the fixed points and list them in the
scrap.  It would be nicer to have Therion display these automatically using
symbol-show!  

The attached shows my "proof of concept" output (it's a bit rough and still
incomplete) and I've currently turned off the text output because my points
are too close together at this scale (1:4000) and the texts collide.  The
fixed stations without the question mark have no "stations" command and no
text.  

Regards,
- Ben

  _  

From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] On Behalf
Of Bruce
Sent: 10 February 2011 19:28
To: 'List for Therion users'
Subject: Re: [Therion] symbol-show fixed points



Thanks Stacho

I think you are pointing me in the direction of answering my second
question; redefinition of each type of point that I might be interested in.
ie p_sink, p_doline, p_entrance.  

(Admittedly I have not delved into the code to see how it currently works,
and I should perhaps educate myself some more before asking.)



Some of my points would have all three (or more) flags set (sink, doline,
entrance).  Are they just layered one above the other in the output? So
there may be three copies of the (identical) text layered one above the
other if each definition included printing of the text?  When I have time I
can look into the TMPDIR outputs and perhaps figure it out.



Anyway I digress.  My most pressing need and interest is (the first question
in my original post) adding the text output to fixed points that do not have
any other flags set.  The ones that show up in Loch as red circles that do
not have doline or other flag set, but do not show up with labels included
in the pdf output.  Is there a p_fixed?



Thanks

Bruce


  _  


From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] On Behalf
Of Stacho Mudrak
Sent: Thursday, 10 February 2011 10:48 p.m.
To: List for Therion users
Subject: Re: [Therion] symbol-show fixed points



Well, it is quite complicated, but it is possible. When point symbol is
exported from centerline, system _text attribute is set in metapost. To
dipsplay label, use code 

code metapost


  def p_continuation(expr pos,theta,sc,al) =







etc...
shown in:

http://therion.speleo.sk/samples

[Therion] New symbols

[Ben Cooper]

Hi Stacho,
I would also be thankful for steps!  
I was looking for a symbol for an emergency supplies dump, but couldn't find
one in thbook.  Perhaps the international green-cross or similar would do
it?
Regards,
- Ben 

> -Original Message-
> From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk 
> [mailto:therion-bounces at speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Andrew Atkinson
> Sent: 11 November 2011 20:55
> To: List for Therion users
> Subject: Re: [Therion] New symbols
> 
> I have already done a hand rail in plan, due to being 
> involved in surveying a show cave, been meaning to put it on 
> the kiwi for a while now. This is one of my first attempts at 
> symbol definition, (cannot remember what I adapted it from), 
> probably very poor, but in case it can help.
> 
> Steps would be wonderful, I have spent far too long trying to 
> use a border to draw steps.
> 
> The other one that vaguely crossed my mind was a point symbol 
> for light, but I put it to the back of the list after very little time
> 
> thanks
> 
> Andrew
> 
> def l_u_rail (expr P) =
>T:=identity;
>cas := 0;
>dlzka := arclength P;
>mojkrok:=adjust_step(dlzka, 0.8u);
>pickup PenC;
>forever:
>  t0 := arctime (cas) of P;
>  t1 := arctime (cas + mojkrok*2/5) of P;
>  t  := arctime (cas + mojkrok/2) of P;
>  t4 := arctime (cas + mojkrok*3/5) of P;
>  t5 := arctime (cas + mojkrok) of P;
>  thdraw (subpath (t0,t1) of P);
>  thdraw (subpath (t4,t5) of P);
>  drawdot
> (point t of P);
>  #mark_ (P,t,0.02u);
>  #mark_ (P,t,-0.02u);
>   #f := (P,t,0.2u);
>   #draw f;
>  cas := cas + mojkrok;
>  exitif cas > dlzka - (2*mojkrok/3); % for rounding errors
>endfor;
> enddef;
> 
> 
> initsymbol("l_u_rail")
> #text en line u:rail "Railing"
> 
> On 11/11/11 19:48, Stacho Mudrak wrote:
> > Hello everybody,
> >
> > after drawing a complex map of one show cave, I would like 
> to add new 
> > standard symbols to therion. These should include:
> >
> > line edge - should be used to draw other then rock edges, e.g. wall 
> > structures in elevation. There is already rock-border -- rock-edge 
> > pair, there is general border symbol but no general edge symbol.
> >
> > line rope - already discussed here, just line point option anchor 
> > on|off should work also
> >
> > line handrail - this symbol already exists in some cave 
> symbol sets. A 
> > line with dots in plan, in elevation some standard 1m tall handrail 
> > would be drawn.
> >
> > point handrail - used to draw handrail in cross-sections
> >
> > line steps - should be used in both, plan / elevation 
> projections. In 
> > plan, this line would surround steps area and steps would be drawn 
> > parallel to the first line segment. In elevation, 20cm 
> steps would be drawn.
> >
> > line path - used to draw concrete or other path in caves, 
> where it was 
> > built. If it will be closed curve, it will be filled with 
> "area path". 
> > See below.
> >
> > area path - fill for path areas. It would be automatically 
> applied for 
> > closed line steps/path in plan projection.
> >
> > Also should be added:
> > line rope-ladder
> > line fixed-ladder
> > line via-ferrata
> > point via-ferrata
> >
> > Do these symbols make sense? Any comments? Any other symbols, that 
> > should exist in the standard therion library?
> >
> > Thanks a lot for the feedback, S.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Therion mailing list
> > Therion at speleo.sk
> > http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk
> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion

[Therion] grid alignment rotation

[Ben Cooper]

Graham,
I too have used declination 0 on the "grid-aligned" data.  That's fine when
there is no cs setting; but when cs is used, for example when we integrate
Upper Flood into the Cheddar Catchment project, Therion rotates the survey
by 0.55 degrees to allign True North to Grid North.

How can I tell Therion that my survey is already alligned to Grid North
rather than True North?  Ideally I'd like to do this at the highest level,
rather than at the individual survey level, as there are about 50 surveys
that make up Upper Flood.  

The layout setting of North Grid or North True doesn't help either.  It is
about the alignment of the survey to the grid, and it affects the grid
references of the stations.  The further from the fixed entrance (as the
crow flies) the larger the error of course.
Regards,

- Ben

> -Original Message-
> From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk 
> [mailto:therion-bounces at speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Graham Mullan
> Sent: 17 February 2011 11:48
> To: therion at speleo.sk
> Subject: [Therion] grid alignment rotation
> 
> Ben
> 
> We've had similar problems, notably with some of Willie's 
> data where he applied a correction that encompassed both 
> compass error and declination. The result suggested was to 
> insert a line
> 
> declination 0 degree
> 
> which zero's the declination correction. One can then add a 
> line such as
> 
> calibrate compass +11.5
> 
> in our circumstances, not needed in yours where the alignment 
> with grid north has already been made.
> 
> As far as UFS is concerned, it's also worth noting that 
> Therion recognises the local grid so you can use
> 
> cs: OSGB:ST
> 
> Graham
> 
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk
> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion

[Therion] CS and grid alignment

[Ben Cooper]

Is there a way of turning off the grid alignment rotation for parts of a
survey when using the CS setting?  My survey is of a cave (Upper Flood) in
the UK using cs OSGB (or EPSG:27700). Some sections have been copied in from
a paper survey that is already aligned to Grid North, while other sections
are new surveys where I have manually specified declination to Grid North.
When turning on the cs setting, I've noticed that the cave is rotated,
because Therion has assumed that my survey is aligned to magnetic North.  

I can see two solutions for the new survey section:
1) change all my declination settings to be True North rather than Grid
North.  In this case Therion will apply the final rotation to Grid North.
2) remove all my declination settings and allow Therion to determine these
based on survey date.  

Howevver, I'd prefer not to have to edit all the source files and it still
leaves the problem with the old paper survey that I traced.  Is there
something I can do within Therion to turn off the rotation to Grid North
when using the cs setting?
Regards,
- Ben Cooper
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<http://mailman.speleo.sk/pipermail/therion/attachments/20110216/2e218890/attachment.html>

[Therion] Paperless Cave Survey with DistoX, PocketTopo and Therion

[Ben Cooper]

Has anyone achieved the reverse?  I'd like to export an existing Therion
survey into PocketTopo, so that when I add to the survey using the DistoX, I
can immediately see the new and the old data in PocketTopo.
Regards,
- Ben 

> -Original Messagen
> From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk 
> [mailto:therion-bounces at speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Footleg
> Sent: 01 February 2010 10:41
> To: List for Therion users
> Subject: Re: [Therion] Paperless Cave Survey with 
> DistoX,PocketTopo and Therion
> 
> You can use my converter tool to reformat the txt export 
> format from PocketTopo into Survex format:
> http://www.darkgem.com/wscc/caving-talk/index.php?title=CaveSu
rveyDataConverter
> 
> This will get you your original data readings out in a format 
> which I think should pretty well cut and paste into .th files 
> too (as Therion is based on the same syntax). My converter 
> averages the three shots to output a single reading for the 
> survey legs, and attempts to match up to 4 splays to generate 
> LRUD readings. If you want different output email me and I 
> will see what I can do.
> 
> Footleg
> 
> On 1 February 2010 08:56, Martin Budaj  wrote:
> >> Working together with people using PocketTopo, it is quite 
> >> inconvenint not to have true Therion *.th files with the 
> full set of 
> >> measurements, but just processed data. It would be great 
> to be able 
> >> to write a *.top conversion utility, but for that the file 
> format needs to known.
> >
> > The reason why you get survey shot data as an average of three 
> > measurments in pocketTopo therion export is that therion currently 
> > does not fully support multiple measurements of one shot. We agreed 
> > with Beat that he will export only averaged shots until it would be 
> > fixed in therion.
> >
> > Martin
> >
> > BTW, there is an open alternative at
> > http://marcocorvi.altervista.org/caving/distox/index.htm
> > ___
> > Therion mailing list
> > Therion at speleo.sk
> > http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
> >
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk
> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
> 

[Therion] Altitude

[Ben Cooper]

Thanks Martin.  That would be fabulous.
- Ben 

-Original Message-
From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] On Behalf
Of Martin Budaj
Sent: 06 June 2008 20:55
To: therion at speleo.sk
Subject: Re: [Therion] Altitude

On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 9:35 PM, Ben Cooper  wrote:
> "scale" works with point label, though.  Why do you say it is ignored 
> for labels?

Well, it used to be ignored (therion functionality sometimes surprises even
the authors ;-). Now we will implement it consistently also for altitude.

Martin
___
Therion mailing list
Therion at speleo.sk
http://www.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion

[Therion] Altitude

[Ben Cooper]

>It belongs to labels, for which the scale option is ignored. Anyway, did
you try to scale the dot or the text?

I would like to scale the altitude text.  

E.g.
point 2678.0 844.0 altitude -scale xs -align bl

"scale" works with point label, though.  Why do you say it is ignored for
labels?

- Ben



-Original Message-
From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] On Behalf
Of Martin Budaj
Sent: 28 May 2008 14:18
To: therion at speleo.sk
Subject: Re: [Therion] Altitude

On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 10:22 PM, Ben Cooper  wrote:
> I've noticed that the "scale" option does not appear to work with the 
> "altitude" point symbol.  Is there any particular reason for that?

It belongs to labels, for which the scale option is ignored. Anyway, did you
try to scale the dot or the text?

Martin
___
Therion mailing list
Therion at speleo.sk
http://www.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion

[Therion] Altitude

[Ben Cooper]

I've noticed that the "scale" option does not appear to work with the
"altitude" point symbol.  Is there any particular reason for that?
- Ben

-Original Message-
From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] On Behalf
Of Stacho Mudrak
Sent: 07 May 2008 08:09
To: therion at speleo.sk
Subject: Re: [Therion] Altitude

Either you can use altitude option for a wall point - just enter "altitude
." to the line point options text editor, as Martin has written. This way we
prefer. Or you can add -align option to your label - e.g. "-align tl" would
probably help in your case (tl means top left).

Regards, S.

2008/5/6 Martin Sluka :
>
>
>
> On 6.5.2008, at 22:55, Ben Cooper wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Can anyone advise me on this one?
> The simplest way is to add to point of line "wall" the option "altitude ."
> You should find in section "Line points" the black rectangle. 
> Highlight the point of wall you want to add the altitude and write
"altitude ." there.
>
> "altitude  . can be speci ed only with the wall type. This 
> option creates an altitude label on the wall. All altitudes are 
> exported as a di erence against grid Z origin (which is 0 by default). 
> If the value is speci ed, it gives the altitude di erence of the point 
> on the wall relative to the nearest station. The value can be pre xed 
> by a keyword \fix", then no nearest station is taken into 
> consideration; the absolute given value is used instead. Units can 
> follow the value. Examples: +4, [+4 m], [fix 1510 m]."
>
>
> "7 General altitude label. All altitudes are exported as a di erence 
> against grid Z origin (which is 0 by default). To display altitude on 
> the passage wall, use altitude option for any line point of the 
> passage wall."
>
> M.
>
>
> ___
>  Therion mailing list
>  Therion at speleo.sk
>  http://www.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
>
>
___
Therion mailing list
Therion at speleo.sk
http://www.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion

[Therion] Altitude

[Ben Cooper]

I'm trying to put "altitude" points into my map.  I've used point altitude
successfully, but the number over-writes the cave.  I've found I can move
the point outside the cave outline, and it still reports the correct
altitude, but it the "dot" appears now outside the cave, of course, as
attached.  









Is there a way of specifying the position of the altitude "point" within the
cave passage, but moving the text outside?  I could do this manually of
course with a point label, but then the altitude data would not be computed
from the centreline, so not ideal.  



Can anyone advise me on this one?
- Ben



-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

-- next part --
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image001.gif
Type: image/gif
Size: 6789 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: 

[Therion] Splay Survey Legs

[Ben Cooper]

Good news!  Thank you Stacho.
- Ben

-Original Message-
From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] On Behalf
Of Stacho Mudrak
Sent: 08 April 2008 15:01
To: therion at speleo.sk
Subject: Re: [Therion] Splay Survey Legs

Splay legs should work in the latest (todays) snapshot. Could you please
try?

Thanks, S.

On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 3:46 PM, Jonathan Prouty  wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> I was wondering if there is any specific reason why Survex's "splay" flag
is
> not supported in Therion? The only way I can get splay shots to not count
> towards my total length is by flagging them as surface survey or as
> duplicate survey, which is inaccurate. Any ideas?
>
> -Jonny
>
>
> P.S.
> I'm using version 0.5.1 on windows.
>
> ___
>  Therion mailing list
>  Therion at speleo.sk
>  http://www.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
>
>
___
Therion mailing list
Therion at speleo.sk
http://www.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion

[Therion] new symbol for therion : a hammer

[Ben Cooper]

Yes – a “dig” in the UK, too.

- Ben



  _  

From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] On Behalf
Of Jonathan Prouty
Sent: 06 April 2008 20:33
To: therion at speleo.sk
Subject: Re: [Therion] new symbol for therion : a hammer



We would call it a "dig" in the US, a well.

On Sat, Apr 5, 2008 at 10:51 PM, Bruce Mutton 
wrote:

Gilbert, Stacho
In New Zealand we would call it a "dig", probably in the UK as well, but
there will be many more experienced than I...
Bruce


-Original Message-
From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] On Behalf
Of Gilbert Fernandes (mailinglist)
Sent: Sunday, 6 April 2008 7:00 a.m.
To: therion at speleo.sk
Subject: Re: [Therion] new symbol for therion : a hammer

For English I don't know, may be an english speluncer can respond.
For French, you can put "désobstruction" (or "désob" which is shorter,
it's a nickname).
Is there an english in the mailing list ?
How do we call a galery we have to dig, to remove stone, clay to pass
threw a new gallery ?

Thanks,

Gilbert

Stacho Mudrak a écrit :
> Very good suggestion, but what keyword (in english) is used for such
> place? Could it be a "probe"?
>
> Regards, S.
>
> On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 7:11 PM, Gilbert Fernandes (mailinglist)
>  wrote:
>> hello,
>>
>>  I would like to add a new symbol in my survey. A hammer. In France we
use
>> it to show place where we dig.
>>  I've wrote the Meta Post code, but I've not test it yet (I must first
find
>> the doc I have read on therion building to add a new symbol).
>>  Could you add it in the next therion release if my code is correct ?
>>  Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>>  code metapost
>> def p_entrance_MY (expr P,R,S,A)=
>>   T:=identity aligned A rotated R scaled S shifted P;
>>   thfill
>>
(u,-.9u)--(-.1u,.3u)--(.2u,.6u)--(-.2u,u)--(.2u,-u)--(.6u,-.2u)--(.1u,-.3u)-
-(-.9u,-u)--cycle;
>> enddef;
>> initsymbol("p_hammer");
>> let p_hammer = p_hammer;
>>   endcode
>>
>>
>>  PS : I sent an drawing of the symbol as a join image
>>
>> ___
>>  Therion mailing list
>>  Therion at speleo.sk
>>  http://www.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
>>
>>
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk
> http://www.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
>
___
Therion mailing list
Therion at speleo.sk
http://www.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion

___
Therion mailing list
Therion at speleo.sk
http://www.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion




-- 
^v^
^v^ ^v^ Take nothing but pictures,
^v^ Leave nothing but footprints,
^v^ Kill nothing but time.
(**)

-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

[Therion] Printing xvi maps (done with pdf's)

[Ben Cooper]

ort command are the same. In layout, you can
> use
>
> color map-fg 50
>
> and in export command option -layout-color map-fg 50
>
> HTH, S.
>
> Bruce Mutton wrote:
>> Ben
>> I tried Stacho's suggestion, and it worked fine, although I think he
>> abbreviated the syntax of the export command a bit much.  Here's my
> more
>> verbose version...
>>
>> layout bruce-map-export
>>   north true
>>   scale 1 500
>>   base-scale 1 500
>>   units metric
>>
>>   page-grid on
>>   grid-size 100 100 100 metres
>> #  layout-map-header 0 0 s  #causes error?
>>   legend on
>>   statistics explo all
>>   statistics topo all
>>   statistics carto all
>>   statistics copyright all
>>   debug on
>> endlayout
>>
>> export map -projection plan -layout bruce-map-export \
>>   -layout-color map-fg 90 \
>>   -output SurveyPlan.pdf -fmt pdf
>>
>> Try this Ben.  The 90 gives a passage that is more lightly shaded than
> 50.
>> Good Luck
>> Bruce
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces at speleo.sk] On
> Behalf
>> Of Cooper, Ben
>> Sent: Friday, 9 November 2007 3:44 a.m.
>> To: therion at speleo.sk
>> Subject: Re: [Therion] Printing xvi maps
>>
>> Hi Stacho,
>> I've been wanting to get print-outs of XVI, too, so I am verry
>> interested in your recommendation, below.  I've tried it, but this is
>> the result I get: only the centreline is visible, not LRUD.
>> - Ben Cooper
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces at speleo.sk] On
>> Behalf Of Stacho Mudrak
>> Sent: 06 November 2007 12:24
>> To: therion at speleo.sk
>> Subject: Re: [Therion] Printing xvi maps
>>
>>
>> ..
>>
>> Stacho's  Example:
>>
>> source
>> map centerline-map
>>   my-survey
>> endmap
>> endsource
>>
>> select centerline-map
>> export map.pdf -layout-color map-fg 50 -layout-scale 1 500
>>
>>
>> ... where my-survey is the name of top-level survey.
>>
>> ..
>>
>> Regards, S.
>>
>> ___
>> Therion mailing list
>> Therion at speleo.sk
>> http://www.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk
> http://www.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk
> http://www.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk
> http://www.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
>


-- 
Ladislav Blazek

___
Therion mailing list
Therion at speleo.sk
http://www.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion

--
This email has been verified as Virus free
Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net

[Therion] Printing xvi maps (done with pdf's)

[Ben Cooper]

.3 0.6
> > 0.6 #10
> > 10  11  2.95156 -11 0.9 0.3 1.0
> > 0.2 #11
> > 11  12  5.36131 +03 1.5 1.2 6.7
> > 0.5 #12
> > 12  13  8.17124.5   +06 0   0.7 6.2
> > 1.6 #13
> > 13  14  8.37132 +7.50.9 2.7 2.2
> > 1.8 #14
> > 14  15  8.81147 -10 0.8 2.1 5.4
> > 1.4 #15
> > 15  16  5.75235 -10.5   0   1.0 5.6
> > 1.0 #16
> > 16  17  6.54272 +2  0.7 0   5.1
> > 1.3 #17
> > 17  18  2.81245 -19 0   0.3 0.4
> > 0.6 #18
> > 18  19  7.54262 0   0   1.7 5.1
> > 0.8 #19
> > 19  20  6.03263 -2  1.0 0.6 3.6
> > 0.7 #20
> > 20  21  2.26205 -2  0   0.6 0.6
> > 0.5 #21
> > 20  20a 4   325 0   0   1   2
> > 0.5 #20a estimated LRUD
> > 21  22  4.58162 +9  0.7 0   5.2
> > 1.3 #22
> > 22  23  4.15144 -4  1.0 0.2 0.5
> > 1.0 #23
> > 23  24  13.68   140.5   -2.51.5 1.5 4.9
> > 0.6 #24
> > 24  25  8.61216 +6  0   2.3 1.5
> > 1.8 #25
> > 25  26  4.58304 -13 1.1 0.9 1.8
> > 1.0 #26
> > 26  27  12.65   281 +1  0.4 1.2 2.2
> > 1.3 #27
> > 27  28  5.59304 -5  0.8 1.2 1.2
> > 0.9 #28
> > 28  29  5.46275 -6  0.2 1.0 0.5
> > 0.4 #29
> > 29  30  3.63312 +2  0.4 0   2.7
> > 0.5 #30
> > #31 30  10.16   103 -3.50.5 0.8 0.2 1.4 #31
> > 30  31  10.16   283 +3.50.5 0.8 0.2
> > 1.4 #31 REVERSED
> > 31  32  4.48276 +3  1.0 0.4 1.6
> > 1.4 #32
> > 32  33  8.42286 -5  1.5 0.8 1.8
> > 0.7 #33
> > 33  34  14.82   271 +1  0.3 2.2 3.2
> > 1.2 #34
> > 34  35  20.06   290.5   +2  2.5 1   2
> > 1.5 #35 estimated LRUD
> > mark 35 painted # ==51 at Leg2
> > endcentreline
> >   endsurvey # Leg1
> >   
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces at speleo.sk] On
> > Behalf Of Cooper, Ben
> > Sent: 11 November 2007 19:56
> > To: therion at speleo.sk
> > Subject: Re: [Therion] Printing xvi maps (done with pdf's)
> > 
> > Aha - thanks Stacho.  I'm still on 0.5.0.  Upgrading now...!
> > Regards,
> > - Ben 
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces at speleo.sk] On
> > Behalf Of Stacho Mudrak
> > Sent: 08 November 2007 19:53
> > To: therion at speleo.sk
> > Subject: Re: [Therion] Printing xvi maps (done with pdf's)
> > 
> > Just few remarks:
> > 
> > 1. Did you use latest version of therion (0.5.1)?  It is a new feature
> 
> > in that version.
> > 
> > 2. You may also use other colors that gray. Just add
> >color map-fg [100 50 50]
> > to your layout. Numbers mean intensities of red, green and blue.
> > 
> > 3. Options in layout and export command are the same. In layout, you
> can
> > use
> > 
> > color map-fg 50
> > 
> > and in export command option -layout-color map-fg 50
> > 
> > HTH, S.
> > 
> > Bruce Mutton wrote:
> >> Ben
> >> I tried Stacho's suggestion, and it worked fine, although I think he
> >> abbreviated the syntax of the export command a bit much.  Here's my
> > more
> >> verbose version...
> >>
> >> layout bruce-map-export
> >>   north true
> >>   scale 1 500
> >>   base-scale 1 500 
> >>   units metric 
> >> 
> >>   page-grid on
> >>   grid-size 100 100 100 metres
> >> #  layout-map-header 0 0 s  #causes error?
> >>   legend on
> >>   statistics explo all
> >>   statistics topo all
> >>   statistics carto all
> >>   statistics copyright all
> >>   debug on
> >> endlayout
> >>
> >> export map -projection plan -layout bruce-map-export \
> >>   -layout-color map-fg 90 \  
> >>   -output SurveyPlan.p