Re: [Therion] mud!

[Rob Countess via Therion]

thanks footleg I'll try to download your symbol set and make it work in
therion. it sems like I'm getting a small clusters of cavers to start using
therion but we are all relative therion noobs and still figuring out some
basic stuff. I'll post if I need help.

On Saturday, August 19, 2017, Rob Countess <rob.count...@gmail.com> wrote:

> No prob. I totally understand. And it is funny because i'd be so happy to
> call clay mud but not the other way around...
>
> On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 12:25 PM, Bruce Mutton via Therion <
> therion@speleo.sk <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','therion@speleo.sk');>>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Rob
>> Sorry for Laughing. You are right about the definition of and semantics
>> of clay.
>> To be honest it took me years to feel comfortable calling mud clay. And
>> not having mud or silt symbols.
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>> Sent from my Samsung device, hence the typo's
>>
>> ___
>> Therion mailing list
>> Therion@speleo.sk <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Therion@speleo.sk');>
>> https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
>>
>>
>
___
Therion mailing list
Therion@speleo.sk
https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion

Re: [Therion] Hello Theron community / need help for Therion install

[Rob Countess via Therion]

Hi Franck,

Rob Countess here. We haven't met but I'm sure we will soon. I look forward
to working with you on the caves of Vancouver Island. I am coming up to
McNeill this weekend. Gus Pub Friday night at 745. Dennis and Peter will be
there.


I switched to PC and all my Therion problems went away. Save the compiling
for the real coders. I did successfully compile on mac but was sure if some
things weren't working right or i just didnt know how to use the program.
Features I was having trouble with on mac now work on PC. Second hand PCs
are cheap and up to the task.

On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 8:13 PM, franck TUOT via Therion <therion@speleo.sk>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I live in Vancouver Island, Caving there for two years now.
> We have some interesting project going on here.
> I tried to install Therion on my mac few days ago.
> It seems like the final installation doesn’t work for me. I’ve followed
> all the steps on your website (that’s great by the way).
> Since I’m not a genius in computer, my competence to play in the terminal
> and write code are limited.
> I tried few option with a friend but he finally suggest me to contact you.
> My only problem is the last command : to launch Therion or Xtherion. my
> computer can’t find that file and I can’t find it neither in my therion
> folder.
> I will join to this e-mail a copy of my terminal use during the
> installation.
> Maybe you can help me to solve it, this might be a mistake from me during
> the installation process.
> Thanks a lot in advance, talk to you soon !
>
> Franck
>
>
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion@speleo.sk
> https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
>
>
___
Therion mailing list
Therion@speleo.sk
https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion

Re: [Therion] mud!

[Rob Countess via Therion]

Well, in my mind, clay is a more specifically defined substance based on
mineral content and particle size. Mud is larger particles, more organics,
and less homogenous. Clay is what you make pots from and is less frequent
in Canadian caves in my experience, but I probably would have used our mud
symbol to draw it. I guess in my mind clay belongs to the set of mud not
vice-versa. Semantics I know but there is a reason I was so stuck on it. In
Canada we have been using a symbol for mud, see  link to a map of a
well-known cave:

http://www.canmorecavetours.com/images/Images/RNC_Map/CanmoreCaveTours-RatsNestCaveMap02.png
.

It would seem like a break in tradition to use a different symbol for mud.
I've been surveying caves for 20 years with this symbol. As far as I
understood, we were using British mapping symbols because of the large
number of British cavers like Mike Boon and Tich Morris, and others who
came over because of Derek Ford at McMaster University. I used to have a
huge list of symbols with this mud symbol included, I can't find anything
to back this up several pages deep on google. You will notice that the UIS
calcite symbol is exactly the mud symbol in Canada whereas our calcite
symbol is connected scallops. Not sure if this is based of some now defunct
british symbols set.

I see the UIS symbols have no mud symbol so I guess clay it is, even though
clay is not a standard UIS symbol just a member of the set clastic
sediments. Is that ASF symbols distinction that therion is using??

I guess you could say this is clear as mud eh?

Rob Countess
Canadian caver


On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 12:05 AM, Bruce Mutton via Therion <
therion@speleo.sk> wrote:

> Ha ha, what do you think mud is made of?
>
> Clay?  And a bit of water, but then most things on earth have a little
> water, so just stick with clay.
>
> Have a look at my interpretation
>
> https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/drawingchecklist
>
> Search for mud on that page.
>
>
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Therion [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] *On Behalf Of *Rob
> Countess via Therion
> *Sent:* Monday, 14 August 2017 6:03 PM
> *To:* List for Therion users <therion@speleo.sk>
> *Cc:* Rob Countess <rob.count...@gmail.com>
> *Subject:* [Therion] mud!
>
>
>
> So, Still a therion noob despite having put all my data over. Finally
> working on cave maps not just line plots, thanks to a caving buddy who is
> leading the charge.
>
>
>
> So this seems strange but why is there no mud area symbol? I am sure
> someone else has already addressed this. I cant be the only person to
> survey in a muddy cave. Surprised really, my floor detail is usually sand,
> cobbles, mud, water or breakdown. I've never really had to use clay or
> debris. Can someone help put the mud into my cave maps? It seems like such
> a common and important floor area, can someone with the expertise make it
> so that mud just comes up on the drop down area list in map editor?
>
>
>
> Rob Countess
>
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion@speleo.sk
> https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
>
>
___
Therion mailing list
Therion@speleo.sk
https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion

[Therion] mud!

[Rob Countess via Therion]

So, Still a therion noob despite having put all my data over. Finally
working on cave maps not just line plots, thanks to a caving buddy who is
leading the charge.

So this seems strange but why is there no mud area symbol? I am sure
someone else has already addressed this. I cant be the only person to
survey in a muddy cave. Surprised really, my floor detail is usually sand,
cobbles, mud, water or breakdown. I've never really had to use clay or
debris. Can someone help put the mud into my cave maps? It seems like such
a common and important floor area, can someone with the expertise make it
so that mud just comes up on the drop down area list in map editor?

Rob Countess
___
Therion mailing list
Therion@speleo.sk
https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion

[Therion] Updated Tutorial

[Rob Countess]

Awesome thanks! I'll give it a read. Especially excited about the data
structure bit.

Rob

On Sun, Nov 1, 2015 at 12:34 PM, Footleg  wrote:

> I have just put an updated draft of my Therion Tutorial online (link on
> the Therion wiki), or click here: http://wscc.darkgem.com/footleg/therion/
>
> I've completed lessons on area fills, and tackled the much more complex
> topic of how to structure your data for a project which is more than one
> scrap/survey trip. There are many ways to do this of course, but I have
> suggested one in the tutorial which should help people who do not already
> have a data model in mind. As always I welcome feedback and comments which
> will help me and others to improve and learn more.
>
> Footleg
>
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk
> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
>
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

[Therion] Do people use Toughbooks for mapping

[Rob Countess]

My caves are deeper than my pockets

I almost bought one but decided to try a cheaper option first.

On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 4:33 AM, rowena  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Does anyone use a Panasonic toughbook for caving?  Do you get the DistoX
> data direct uploaded to Therion on a toughbook?
> If so how well do they go underground and what other mapping tools do you
> use with it?
>
> Rowena
>
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk
> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

[Therion] error

[Rob Countess]

So I fixed it. There was a loop in the survey I was not aware of (I didnt
survey it) the notes were not drawn to scale so it wasnt apparent. Talked
to one of the cavers on the trip who sorted it out.

On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 5:33 PM, Rob Countess 
wrote:

> Done. Please post more Facebook links of gorgeous women ;-)
>
> On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 1:27 PM, Martin Sluka  wrote:
>
>> Please, send me full data set.
>>
>> Martin
>>
>
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<http://mailman.speleo.sk/pipermail/therion/attachments/20150929/aa86dd1b/attachment.html>

[Therion] Error - cant figure it out

[Rob Countess]

Its a 2km 235m deep cave. I look over equates again but none to the station
in the problem causing section are part of an equate statement. I can post
the whole data set if its helpful.

Rob

On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 3:45 AM, Martin Sluka  wrote:

> It looks as part of a huge system. Isn’t there a typo in equates?
>
> m.s.
>
>
> 29. 9. 2015 v 7:49, Rob Countess :
>
> So I get an error when I try to compile this cave. I just added a new
> survey. A few stations were missing. It all compiled properly. When I added
> the stations I get this error output. If I comment out survey legs
> 72-73-74-75-76-77-78-79-80 then everything compiles properly. Output and th
> file follow.
>
>
>
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk
> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
>
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<http://mailman.speleo.sk/pipermail/therion/attachments/20150929/9c335d15/attachment.html>

[Therion] Error - cant figure it out

[Rob Countess]

So I get an error when I try to compile this cave. I just added a new
survey. A few stations were missing. It all compiled properly. When I added
the stations I get this error output. If I comment out survey legs
72-73-74-75-76-77-78-79-80 then everything compiles properly. Output and th
file follow.

Rob




therion 5.3.16
initialization file: /usr/local/etc/therion.ini
reading ... done
configuration file: thconfig.thconfig
reading ... done
reading source files ... done
preprocessing database ... done
output coordinate system: UTM9
meridian convergence (deg): -1.6174
geomag declinations (deg):
  1982.1.1  23.0300
  1983.1.1  22.9182
  1984.1.1  22.8065
  1985.1.1  22.6947
  1986.1.1  22.5800
  1987.1.1  22.4652
  1988.1.1  22.3504
  1989.1.1  22.2355
  1990.1.1  22.1205
  1991.1.1  21.9916
  1992.1.1  21.8627
  1993.1.1  21.7339
  1994.1.1  21.6052
  1995.1.1  21.4765
  1996.1.1  21.3119
  1997.1.1  21.1472
  1998.1.1  20.9827
  1999.1.1  20.8181
  2000.1.1  20.6535
  2001.1.1  20.4500
  2002.1.1  20.2465
  2003.1.1  20.0430
  2004.1.1  19.8394
  2005.1.1  19.6359
  2006.1.1  19.4264
  2007.1.1  19.2167
  2008.1.1  19.0069
  2009.1.1  18.7970
  2010.1.1  18.5869
  2011.1.1  18.3842
  2012.1.1  18.1812
  2013.1.1  17.9779
  2014.1.1  17.7744
  2015.1.1  17.5706
  2016.1.1  17.3972
scanning centreline tree ... done
searching for centerline loops ... done
calculating station coordinates ... done
average loop error: 0.41%
calculating basic statistics ... done
processing extended elevation ... done
processing references ... done
selecting export objects ... done
processing projection plan ... done
writing Resonance.xvi ... done
writing ResonancePlan.pdf ...
### metapost log file 
This is MetaPost, version 1.902 (TeX Live 2014) (kpathsea version 6.2.0)
 28 SEP 2015 22:40
**data.mp
(/usr/local/texlive/2014/texmf-dist/metapost/base/mpost.mp
(/usr/local/texlive/2014/texmf-dist/metapost/base/plain.mp
Preloading the plain mem file, version 1.005) ) (./data.mp [4001] [4002]
[4003]
[4004] [4005] [4006] [4007] [4008] [4009] [4010] [4011] [4012]
! Number is too large (4140.07).
l.6213 ...e(((602.97,-3964.48) -- (607.41,-4140.07
  )));
It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope
with that big value; but it might be dangerous.
(Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.)

! Number is too large (4140.07).
l.6223 l_survey_cave(((607.41,-4140.07
  ) -- (534.29,-4105.11)));
It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope
with that big value; but it might be dangerous.
(Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.)

! Number is too large (4105.11).
l.6223 ...e(((607.41,-4140.07) -- (534.29,-4105.11
  )));
It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope
with that big value; but it might be dangerous.
(Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.)

! Number is too large (4140.07).
l.6228 l_survey_cave(((607.41,-4140.07
  ) -- (602.97,-3964.48)));
It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope
with that big value; but it might be dangerous.
(Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.)

! Number is too large (4105.11).
l.6233 l_survey_cave(((534.29,-4105.11
  ) -- (527.64,-4072.27)));
It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope
with that big value; but it might be dangerous.
(Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.)

! Number is too large (4105.11).
l.6238 l_survey_cave(((534.29,-4105.11
  ) -- (607.41,-4140.07)));
It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope
with that big value; but it might be dangerous.
(Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.)

! Number is too large (4140.07).
l.6238 ...e(((534.29,-4105.11) -- (607.41,-4140.07
  )));
It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope
with that big value; but it might be dangerous.
(Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.)

! Number is too large (4105.11).
l.6248 ...e(((527.64,-4072.27) -- (534.29,-4105.11
  )));
It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope
with that big value; but it might be dangerous.
(Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.)

! Number is too large (4140.07).
l.8598 p_station((607.41,-4140.07
 ),1,0,"");
It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope
with that big value; but it might be dangerous.
(Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.)

! Value is too large (-4140.07).
p_station->T:=identity.shifted(EXPR0);

if(EXPR1)=4:p_station_fixed((EXPR0))el...
l.8598 p_station((607.41,-4140.07),1,0,"")
  ;
The equation I just processed has given some variable a
value outside of the safetyp range. Continue and I'll try
to cope with that big 

[Therion] GPS app for android

[Rob Countess]

Thanks Martin, I'm trying it out.


Bruce, are you using a stylus with you galaxy s5? can you recommend one?


Rob

On Sat, Sep 26, 2015 at 2:21 PM, Martin Sluka  wrote:

> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=gr.stasta.mobiletopographer
>
> developer: http://www.stgrdev.com
>
> there is free and pro version
>
> Your mobile Topographer!
>
> *** Increase GPS accuracy using:
> - Weighted averaging (on every axis).
> - Map calibration.
> - Device calibration on map, or on a know point.
>
> *** Display and convert GPS geodetic to Cartesian EN coordinates and back:
> - UTM.
> - Europe ETRS89/UTMZ28-38.
> - Hellas HGRS 87 (EGSA 87).
> - Hellas HTRS07/TM07.
> - Iceland ISN93/Lambert 93.
> - Morroco Merchich.
> - SPCS83 (124 zones) USA.
> - Romania S-42(58)/Stereo 70.
> - Lebanon & Syria Deir ez Zor/Stereo.
> - Croatia HTRS96/TM.
> - Serbia SRB-ETRS89/UTM, SRB-MGI/Z7.
> - Australia MGA94 (GDA94), AMG66 (AGD66) National, A.C.T., Northern
> Territory, NSW & Victoria, Tasmania,AMG84 (AGD84).
> - Former FR of Yugoslavia MGI Balkans zones 5,6 & 7.
> - Italy Monte Mario West Zone 1 Peninsular, West Zone 1 Sardinia, East
> Zone 2 Peninsular, East Zone 2 Sicily.
> - Costa Rica CΜ05/CRTM05, Ocotepeque 1935 Costa Rica Norte & Ocotepeque
> 1935 Costa Rica Sur.
> - Cyprus CGRS-93-LTM.
> - Hungary HD72/EOV.
> - Kosovo KosovaREF01.
> - Latvia LKS92/TM.
> - Lithuania LKS94/TM.
> - Spain ED50/UTMZ29-30 NW, ED50/UTMZ29-31 ML & ED50/UTMZ31 BA.
> - Uk's OSTN02/OSGM02.
> - Turkey ED50/Gauss-Kruger 3° Z9-15, ITRF96 & ED50/UTMZ35-38.
> - Luxembourg LUREF.
> - Venezuala REGVEN/Z18-20.
> - Sweden SWEREF99 TM.
> - Argentina POSGAR 94 & POSGAR 2007.
> - India Kalianpur 1975 ZI - ZIV.
> - Algeria Nord Sahara 1959 / Z29-32.
> - Armenia, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Russia -
> Kaliningrad and Kazakhstan Pulkovo 1942/ CS63 (A)Z1-4, (C)Z0-2, (K)Z2-4.
> - Central and South America SIRGAS 2000.
> - Nigeria and Cameroon Minna 1996 & 2008 MTM West, Mid, East Belts & UTM
> Z31-33.
> - Bangladesh Gulshan 303/TM.
> - France RGF93/CC42-50.
> - Canada CSRS
> - Egypt 1907 Blue, Red, Purple, Extended Purple belts.
> - Portugal ETRS89/PTM06.
> - Netherlands Amersfoort/RD new.
> - Qatar QND95.
> - Colombia MAGNA-SIRGAS Far West, West, Bogota, Central East, East zones.
> - Mexico ITRF 2008/LCC.
> - Madagascar Tananariva (Paris)/Laborde & Tananariva/UTM Z38-39S .
> - Tunisia Carthage (Paris)/Mining Grid, Carthage/Nord, Carthage/Sud,
> Carthage/TM 11 NE, Carthage/UTM zone 32N.
>
> *** Auto stop for accurate positioning.
>
> *** Examine the satellites above you in a sky view.
>
> *** Signal strength and number of satellites indication for each GNSS
> constellation individually.
>
> *** Multiple units support:
> - Meters,
> - International feet,
> - US survey feet.
>
> ***Height calculation:
> - Ellipsoidal height.
> - EGM96 orthometric height calculation.
>
> *** Convert from geodetic to Cartesian coordinates and back:
> - Support for device measured points, or
> - Manually input of geodetic or Cartesian coords.
>
> *** Drive me:
> - Key in coordinates of the target point in either geodetic or Cartesian
> coordinates, or select a point from the list and follow the pointer.
> - Compass indicating both magnetic and true North.
>
> ***
>
> *Project on Map:- Project individual points on any map application.-
> Project list of points, and the defined polygon, on embedded maps.*
>
>  Save multiple point lists, to use them later. *
>
>  Calculate area.*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  Export point lists το:- .txt (text file)- .csv (point file - comma
> separated)- .kml (google earth file)- .gpx (Gps Exchange format)- .dxf
> (drawing file)*
>
>  Send file via e-mail, or upload it to cloud.*
>
>  Complete help text support.*
>
>
>
> 26. 9. 2015 v 23:15, Rob Countess :
>
>
> So I ended up with a Samsung galaxy S5 Active. Can anyone recommend a good
> app for android that does GPS averaging to get accurate fixes on cave
> entrances? Other good GPS apps useful for cave stuff?
>
> I thought i saw something on this listserv but my searched came up empty.
>
> I'm looking forward to testing out my set up.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rob
>
>
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk
> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
>
>
>
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk
> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
>
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<http://mailman.speleo.sk/pipermail/therion/attachments/20150926/21b9c06e/attachment.html>

[Therion] GPS app for android

[Rob Countess]

So I ended up with a Samsung galaxy S5 Active. Can anyone recommend a good
app for android that does GPS averaging to get accurate fixes on cave
entrances? Other good GPS apps useful for cave stuff?

I thought i saw something on this listserv but my searched came up empty.

I'm looking forward to testing out my set up.

Thanks,

Rob
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

[Therion] Best caving tablet

[Rob Countess]

http://ruggedpcreview.com/3_slates_xplore_xslate_b10.html

I'm thinking of this: XSlate B10. Has wacom digitizer. They also make
smaller android model. Any thoughts?

On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 6:02 AM, Adam Sampson 
wrote:

> FYI, you can use Andy from andyroid.net to emulate android on a PC if you
> want to try out topodroid. However, the emulator can't use Bluetooth. So
> you have to disable/deny Bluetooth and enter everything manually. Still a
> cheap way to try out the program.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 2:43 AM -0700, "Martin Sluka"  > wrote:
>
> Me too.
>
> M.
>
> Odesláno z iPhonu
>
> 15. 9. 2015 v 10:52, Footleg :
>
> I have used a Dell Axim x51v PDA for my underground drawing and data
> collection since the original DistoX came out. Running PocketTopo on this
> Windows Mobile OS. I find it works well, waterproofed using a beach case
> (Aquapaq bags for total immersion waterproofing, or a cheap beach case for
> phone/PDA). The winning features for me are the replaceable battery
> (allowing larger batteries which can run the PDA all day) and low cost (2nd
> hand via eBay).
>
> Footleg
>
> On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 12:42 AM Rob Countess 
> wrote:
>
> I posted this on cave chat.org but no replies:
>
>
> So I'm awaiting shipment of my DistoX2. I've never used one before.
>
> I am trying to figure out what the best tablet is to use with it. I am
> using Therion but I am new to that as well. I used to use Walls and before
> that On Station.
>
> I have zero experience with paperless cave surveying. I have never used
> Pocketopo or Topodroid which makes it hard to decide between windows or
> android. Topodroid seems to be set up well for use with Therion, but again
> I have no idea; I've never used an android device only iPhone and iPad. I
> see the new ipad pro has a stylus - are there cave survey/disto apps that
> run on iPad?
>
> A new windows surface pro3 tablet seems like a good idea but are there
> good waterproof cases?
>
> Xperia Z4 tablet claims IP68 - can it handle a cave without a case? I
> can't seem to find any suitable rugged cases for it.
>
> If price was not a factor what set up would you use?
>
> Thanks
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk
> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
>
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk
> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
>
>
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk
> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
>
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<http://mailman.speleo.sk/pipermail/therion/attachments/20150915/4dfb533b/attachment.html>

[Therion] Best caving tablet

[Rob Countess]

Thanks Adam! I will definitely try Andy and Topodroid.

On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 6:02 AM, Adam Sampson 
wrote:

> FYI, you can use Andy from andyroid.net to emulate android on a PC if you
> want to try out topodroid. However, the emulator can't use Bluetooth. So
> you have to disable/deny Bluetooth and enter everything manually. Still a
> cheap way to try out the program.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 2:43 AM -0700, "Martin Sluka"  > wrote:
>
> Me too.
>
> M.
>
> Odesláno z iPhonu
>
> 15. 9. 2015 v 10:52, Footleg :
>
> I have used a Dell Axim x51v PDA for my underground drawing and data
> collection since the original DistoX came out. Running PocketTopo on this
> Windows Mobile OS. I find it works well, waterproofed using a beach case
> (Aquapaq bags for total immersion waterproofing, or a cheap beach case for
> phone/PDA). The winning features for me are the replaceable battery
> (allowing larger batteries which can run the PDA all day) and low cost (2nd
> hand via eBay).
>
> Footleg
>
> On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 12:42 AM Rob Countess 
> wrote:
>
> I posted this on cave chat.org but no replies:
>
>
> So I'm awaiting shipment of my DistoX2. I've never used one before.
>
> I am trying to figure out what the best tablet is to use with it. I am
> using Therion but I am new to that as well. I used to use Walls and before
> that On Station.
>
> I have zero experience with paperless cave surveying. I have never used
> Pocketopo or Topodroid which makes it hard to decide between windows or
> android. Topodroid seems to be set up well for use with Therion, but again
> I have no idea; I've never used an android device only iPhone and iPad. I
> see the new ipad pro has a stylus - are there cave survey/disto apps that
> run on iPad?
>
> A new windows surface pro3 tablet seems like a good idea but are there
> good waterproof cases?
>
> Xperia Z4 tablet claims IP68 - can it handle a cave without a case? I
> can't seem to find any suitable rugged cases for it.
>
> If price was not a factor what set up would you use?
>
> Thanks
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk
> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
>
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk
> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
>
>
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk
> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
>
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<http://mailman.speleo.sk/pipermail/therion/attachments/20150915/6ccd22a5/attachment.html>

[Therion] Data Management (Adam Sampson)

[Rob Countess]

Yeah, I was just reading about versioning systems on Wikipedia. I have no
prior experience setting up such a thing. Git seems useful. Anything would
be a step up. Even snail mailing each other 5&1/4 floppies is a step up.
For now dropbox is what I know how to use but I will figure out Git
eventually.

Rob

On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 5:16 PM, Bruce Mutton  wrote:

> Rob
> For collaborative projects you would be much better to use a version
> control package such as bazaar, git or mercurial.
> Dropbox and similar cloud does not allow people to work on the same files
> simultaneously and maintain integrity of data or track changes.
> I am otherwise occupied so no time to explain further.
> Bruce
>
>
>
> Sent from my Samsung device
>
>
> ---- Original message 
> From: Rob Countess 
> Date: 09/09/2015 01:34 (GMT+05:45)
> To: List for Therion users 
> Subject: Re: [Therion] Data Management (Adam Sampson)
>
> I would love any and all tutorials. I am still a newbie. Any information I
> can glean about how to use Therion is helpful. I fully understand that it
> is a flexible and powerful program and that info in any tutorial is just
> one possible way to use Therion. I found installing it on my Mac OSX quite
> a complex process but it somehow magically produced a working program.
>
> I am converting data over from other programs, Walls and On Station and
> this has been quite straight forward. I have about 60% of my data converted
> over but have yet to draw anything on Therion but that is the goal. The
> caves I am working on were mostly surveyed and drawn with pen and paper in
> the 1980's. Now they have doubled in length roughly but no comprehensive
> maps have been produced just snippets of new passage. I would like to use
> the dropbox approach to manage projects with multiple surveyors and
> cartographers and hopefully convert some other caver's to Therion. Right
> now On Station is the main program people use and maps are mostly hand
> drawn or sometimes Illustrator. There is about 10 km of new passage to draw
> and 20 km total with redrawing old stuff. More than a one man job so using
> dropbox with 3 or 4 of us mapping sounds wonderful. I also have a DistoX2
> coming and I am looking to convert to paperless surveying in the future. I
> think GoPro, Disto, tablet should make it possible. I am not completely
> useless with technology but I am not fluent in Geek.
>
> Rob
>
> On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 3:53 AM, Nick Bairstow  wrote:
>
>> Dave has been my personal tutor for the last 2/3 weeks and has got me
>> flying along with things. I can not thank him enough for the not
>> inconsiderable time and effort he has put in with me. He sorted my file
>> structure and checked and corrected lots of my data some of which is
>> available to view using the dropbox link. Be warned files have been flying
>> in and out of that dropbox so some of the stuffs a bit messy.
>> I have been giving some thought to producing a tutorial to follow on from
>> Footlegs wiki item. Unfortunately it's not a simple as I first thought.
>> Over the next few months I will attempt to come up with something that will
>> enable a novice therioneer understand the next steps following the Footleg
>> wiki article. It would be nice to continue using Bull Pot as the sample
>> cave but I have not got time to re-survey that so I propose we use an
>> existing data set which could become the default novice reference.
>> It seems many people give up with Therion as it is difficult to learn but
>> with a good tutorial and a little help many more could be using it.
>> What do people think, am I wasting my time, comments please.
>> Oh and if someone else is already doing something similar please shout
>> up. No point doing it twice.
>>
>>  Nick.
>> 
>> From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk [therion-bounces at speleo.sk] On Behalf 
>> Of
>> Dave Clucas [dave.clucas at icloud.com]
>> Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2015 7:55 AM
>> To: therion at speleo.sk
>> Subject: Re: [Therion] Data Management (Adam Sampson)
>>
>> I helped Nick with his problen. To see how it's done have a look at the
>> sample data we worked on
>> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lmpe35x3mhy7kp8/AADED3GW7KpiAFVKR1q-zxEsa?dl=0
>>
>> Any queries contact me.
>>
>> Dave Clucas
>> daveclucas.com<http://daveclucas.com>
>> sarawak-caves.com<http://sarawak-caves.com>
>> dave.clucas at icloud.com<mailto:daveclucas at icloud.com>
>>
>> Exploring the World - One cave at a time
>>
>>
>> On 19 Aug 2015, at 12:44, therion-request at speleo.sk> therion-reque

[Therion] Data Management (Adam Sampson)

[Rob Countess]

I would love any and all tutorials. I am still a newbie. Any information I
can glean about how to use Therion is helpful. I fully understand that it
is a flexible and powerful program and that info in any tutorial is just
one possible way to use Therion. I found installing it on my Mac OSX quite
a complex process but it somehow magically produced a working program.

I am converting data over from other programs, Walls and On Station and
this has been quite straight forward. I have about 60% of my data converted
over but have yet to draw anything on Therion but that is the goal. The
caves I am working on were mostly surveyed and drawn with pen and paper in
the 1980's. Now they have doubled in length roughly but no comprehensive
maps have been produced just snippets of new passage. I would like to use
the dropbox approach to manage projects with multiple surveyors and
cartographers and hopefully convert some other caver's to Therion. Right
now On Station is the main program people use and maps are mostly hand
drawn or sometimes Illustrator. There is about 10 km of new passage to draw
and 20 km total with redrawing old stuff. More than a one man job so using
dropbox with 3 or 4 of us mapping sounds wonderful. I also have a DistoX2
coming and I am looking to convert to paperless surveying in the future. I
think GoPro, Disto, tablet should make it possible. I am not completely
useless with technology but I am not fluent in Geek.

Rob

On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 3:53 AM, Nick Bairstow  wrote:

> Dave has been my personal tutor for the last 2/3 weeks and has got me
> flying along with things. I can not thank him enough for the not
> inconsiderable time and effort he has put in with me. He sorted my file
> structure and checked and corrected lots of my data some of which is
> available to view using the dropbox link. Be warned files have been flying
> in and out of that dropbox so some of the stuffs a bit messy.
> I have been giving some thought to producing a tutorial to follow on from
> Footlegs wiki item. Unfortunately it's not a simple as I first thought.
> Over the next few months I will attempt to come up with something that will
> enable a novice therioneer understand the next steps following the Footleg
> wiki article. It would be nice to continue using Bull Pot as the sample
> cave but I have not got time to re-survey that so I propose we use an
> existing data set which could become the default novice reference.
> It seems many people give up with Therion as it is difficult to learn but
> with a good tutorial and a little help many more could be using it.
> What do people think, am I wasting my time, comments please.
> Oh and if someone else is already doing something similar please shout up.
> No point doing it twice.
>
>  Nick.
> 
> From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk [therion-bounces at speleo.sk] On Behalf Of
> Dave Clucas [dave.clucas at icloud.com]
> Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2015 7:55 AM
> To: therion at speleo.sk
> Subject: Re: [Therion] Data Management (Adam Sampson)
>
> I helped Nick with his problen. To see how it's done have a look at the
> sample data we worked on
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lmpe35x3mhy7kp8/AADED3GW7KpiAFVKR1q-zxEsa?dl=0
>
> Any queries contact me.
>
> Dave Clucas
> daveclucas.com
> sarawak-caves.com
> dave.clucas at icloud.com
>
> Exploring the World - One cave at a time
>
>
> On 19 Aug 2015, at 12:44, therion-request at speleo.sk therion-request at speleo.sk> wrote:
>
> Send Therion mailing list submissions to
> therion at speleo.sk
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> therion-request at speleo.sk
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> therion-owner at speleo.sk
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Therion digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Data Management (Adam Sampson)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 08:14:36 -0400
> From: Adam Sampson 
> Subject: Re: [Therion] Data Management
> To: Therion List 
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Please do let us know what you figure out. Martin helped me figure out how
> to have my surveys in a sub-folder of my main survey, but so far I'm only
> doing one cave. Would like to hear how to add the other area caves to the
> same output.
>
> Adam Sampson(502)
> 509-5066caver.adam at outlook.comwww.kentuckykarstconservancy.com
>
> From: Nick at pff.uk.com
> To: therion at speleo.sk
> Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 10:31:32 +0100
> Subject: Re: [Therion] Data Management
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Andrew, Martin, Rowena,
>
> Thanks for the replies. What I 

[Therion] Therion Digest, Vol 112, Issue 5

[Rob Countess]

I think my joke fell flat.

Just to point out lest anyone think I'm an ASS (actually I have been a
member of the Alberta Speleological Society), you left out the "only half
joking" part of the control freak quote, it was tongue in cheek and I was
making fun of myself for enjoying being the "boss". I'm not sure if you got
that, Bruce. If you did great, then I didn't catch your sarcasm - it is so
hard to do with email especially if you don't know your correspondent. It
also left me realizing that a lot of people on this list are multilingual
(awesome!) with english as a 2nd 3rd or 4th language and they might have
missed that I was making fun of myself. I also meant to reply privately to
you, Bruce, but I had two email programs running at the same time and
answered the the wrong email from you. It's looking grim for me figuring
out Therion if I can't even use email ;-) (I make jokes at my own expense
until I get to know you and then its fair game.)

 There are literally less than a dozen active cave explorers on Vancouver
Island and most of them could't be bothered to track down the old data let
alone maintain it. There are more people who get out infrequently, survey
small caves, but few who want to do longer exploration trips.

I adopted the Glory 'ole caving area in 1998 after my first survey trip
because nobody else cared. It was literally my first survey trip and I
became the project leader because I was the only candidate.  I had to track
down retired cavers across the country to find 15 year old data. I
resurveyed kms of passage and had to twist peoples arms to help. There's no
motivation like "I've got a awesome lead but lets do some resurveying
first." Again I hate resurveying.

Martin Davis takes care of the Weymer Creek data (30 + km) and many other
areas because well somebody has to. We both are open to other people
helping out but so far no-one has stepped up. There's a guy who manages
Holely Mountain but he really does't cave with anyone but his crew. There's
a guy who started exploration in Thanksgiving cave - but all he has done is
scoop passage in the past two years - no surveying. There are whole amazing
caving areas that have been abandoned since the heyday of Vancouver Island
caving in the 80's: Clayoquot Plateau, White Ridge, Thanksgiving Ridge,
Benson River, Tahshish, Skull Lake, crying for someone to explore them and
preserve their data. There were three caving related deaths in a period of
a few years that probably contributed to the decline of the caving scene
here.

It sounds like you have a very different situation in New Zealand.

I would love it if I could have the versioning system and multiple people
drawing, that is why I picked Therion. I am hoping to facilitate a
consortium of cave mappers tackling Vancouver Island caves. I heed your
call to share the load Bruce. Plus I have three kids under 5, if that
doesn't count for succession planning then I don't know what does ;-)

Yeah, Therion is not user friendly, but I'll figure it out. There seems to
be a great community supporting it. It is by far the most awesome program
for keeping final maps up to date and like you said it is just developing.
Once somebody develops a user interface that doesn't require coding skills
its going to be amazing.

Again thanks for all the help from the Therion community.

Rob Countess,
tongue-in-cheek, sarcastic, mini-tyrant of Vancouver Island Caves.





On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 1:27 AM, Bruce  wrote:

>As below…
>
> >I've always like the idea of a "series" in bigger caves, i.e. a group of
> related passages that help divide the cave into neighbourhoods.
>
> Yes, we do that for larger caves.
>
>
>
> >I pictured it as a bunch of building blocks (scraps and associated
> centrelines) that I could put together hierarchically
>
> I think it is.
>
>
>
> >and that I could easy pass parameters from one level to the other or
> change parameters of one branch or another. In Walls and On Station it was
> super easy to change the colour of centreline for 2D or 3D display in a
> hierarchical manner, just right click on the appropriate  survey or folder
> (on Station) or Book (Walls). I used this a lot to visualize the cave. Eg
> make all newly surveyed passage pink, colour code passage by survey date
> [cannot], depth [can, for maps, not centreline]  etc. With my limited
> understanding of Therion, I've not yet been able to do this. goes now it is
> hard to subdivide parameters of a map. It seems like there should be some
> commands for this. e.g. if survey = Arch then colour = blue, if team
> includes "Rob Countess" then colour = yellow, if flag = lead then colour =
> pink, if flag = drafting in then scrap/map = blue, elseif drafting out then
> scrap/map = red, elseif oscillating then scrap = yellow, else if scrap =
> bla

[Therion] Therion Digest, Vol 112, Issue 5

[Rob Countess]

Thanks for your insight,

Vancouver Island and New Zealand are very similar. Most of our caves are
highly accessible due to logging roads. In my main project most caves are
less than 100m from a road. The land is mostly public crown land. Plus some
bastard created a commercial backroads map book and marked the entrances to
Glory 'ole Arch and Resonance. It sells 2 copies and I thought there
would be a massive influx but the truth is 99.99 percent of people don't
want to cave. Thank god.

The Vancouver Island Cave Exploration Group was an exclusive brotherhood,
you had to be sponsored by a member in order to join. The idea was to
protect the caves. I was caving 5 years on the Island, leading and
organizing lots of exploration before I finally said, look sponsor me for
christ sake. Sadly because the club was so exclusive, egos were bruised,
splinter groups formed (and collapsed) and there were some ugly politics.
The by product was that the pace of exploration drastically slowed down as
old members got old and new cavers (Do you guys call them Ouigees (Weegees)
too?) had a hard time making the transition to independent cave explorers.

Anyway I totally understand the data shackles your fellow cagers have you
wearing.

As for data structure, I think I was heading for number 3 naturally but
only because I never thought of 1 or 2. I will go with number 3 and let you
know how it turns out.

Since it may be beneficial to my learning, I may create a sample data set
with my cave data and post it to the Therion wiki (long term goal though -
probably not for months). I'll just hide the cave locations by commenting
out the fixed stations. Joking. Ill just translate the coordinates to put
the cave in the ocean.

I've always like the idea of a "series" in bigger caves, i.e. a group of
related passages that help divide the cave into neighbourhoods. For example
Arch Cave has the Arch series (main entrance stream way), the Tunnel vision
series (separate entrance larger "tributary" stream way, that follows a
separate bedding plane/fault 50 m below the Arch Stream, the Triple Pots
series (fossil upper level passages off Arch stream way vadose) The Fecal
pot series (another parallel overlying stream), Mudfinger Series (large
fossil series that eventually leads to two other separate streams. There
are many others but these five I mention all overlap significantly in plan
view. It would makes sense to produce stand alone maps of each series.

I think I will go for a structure of
1) Caving Area Level- surface data, area maps
2) Cave Level- define entire cave maps from level 3 (is this possible or do
i have to repeat definitions from level 4 data I'm confused since i haven't
done it yet) I will probably want surface data here too.
3) Series Level - define series maps from scraps
4) Scrap level
5) Survey trip Level

Anyway I'm going to play around and try to figure it out before I go too
far in one direction. I still don't have a very good grasp on Therion. It
seems kind of not fully object oriented. I pictured it as a bunch of
building blocks (scraps and associated centrelines) that I could put
together hierarchically and that I could easy pass parameters from one
level to the other or change parameters of one branch or another. In Walls
and On Station it was super easy to change the colour of centreline for 2D
or 3D display in a hierarchical manner, just right click on the appropriate
 survey or folder (on Station) or Book (Walls). I used this a lot to
visualize the cave. Eg make all newly surveyed passage pink, colour code
passage by survey date, depth etc. With my limited understanding of
Therion, I've not yet been able to do this. goes now it is hard to
subdivide parameters of a map. It seems like there should be some commands
for this. e.g. if survey = Arch then colour = blue, if team includes "Rob
Countess" then colour = yellow, if flag = lead then colour = pink, if flag
= drafting in then scrap/map = blue, elseif drafting out then scrap/map =
red, elseif oscillating then scrap = yellow, else if scrap = black.
Actually that last one would be a useful visualization, now I want to do
that. It should be easy to set labels to hide if font <7 pt,

In answer to your "why not walls": Well i really like some features of
Walls. The blunder detection system is awesome. Worth porting your data to
if you can write a script for it, I found so many blunders in the old data
I inherited, backlight/foresight, clino +/-, decimal misplaced, etc. The
round tripping with SVG drawing programs gets super complicated when you
have many levels because each level has many levels (centreline, passage,
passage detail, labels, symbols) it does't understand overlapping passages.
If your old centreline data is shitty like mine ( some is one man survey
trips with topofil and ESTIMATED clino!!) and you are closing loops with
new exploration ( the cave went from 1 loop to hundreds) then overlapping
passages m

[Therion] Therion Digest, Vol 112, Issue 5

[Rob Countess]

Bruce,

Again thanks for all your help.

In your attachment you had some mention of where to put low-level map
definitions. Could you explain the benefits of placing map definitions:
1) in the file outside of surfer/endsurvery
2) in the file inside of at and the start of survey/endsurvey
3) in separate file

It seems like you've given this a lot of thought and would choose
differently if you were starting out again and since I am just starting out
I'd like to understand more.

Rob


The survey network and map hierarchies are then tied together in INDEX.th
files

[If I were to start my 'Therion life' again, I would place the map
definitions inside of, and at the start of the survey-endsurvey block to
promote ease of use and simpler map references in INDEX files.  The above
structure was intended to make maps independent of surveys (which is
preferred), but I did not think it through – to achieve that we would have
to have map definitions in separate files.  Separate files would work OK,
but would increase the number or size of files.  At the time, we chose not
to go this way.  Another time, I might choose differently.  Bruce]

On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 2:54 PM, Bruce  wrote:

> Rob
>
> This is not a dataset, but it is an example of a file I have recently
> started placing at the top level of a survey project folder, to remind me
> and other users what conventions are used and preferred in a particular
> project.  It might, indirectly, help you think about some of the
> considerations when starting a large project.
>
> See attached.
>
> Bruce
>
>
>  --
>
> *From:* therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces at speleo.sk] *On
> Behalf Of *Rob Countess
> *Sent:* Friday, 24 April 2015 7:58 a.m.
> *To:* List for Therion users
> *Subject:* Re: [Therion] Therion Digest, Vol 112, Issue 5
>
>
>
> Does anyone mind sending me one of your data sets. It would help me
> understand the structure and organization.
>
> I have data for several cave areas on Vancouver Island BC Canada in Walls
> and On Station. I want to convert the whole mess.
>
> My data sets are
>
>
>
> Glory 'ole/Arch Cave area
>
>-18 km in 4 main caves and a dozen or so smaller caves linked by
> overland survey and GPS
>
>- longest caves are  Arch (10.6 km km 3 entrances), Glory 'ole (2.7 km)
> Pellucidar (1.9 km) Resonance (1.8 km)
>
>- Arch cave is divided into several series based on streams and
> distinct areas of the cave
>
>- 3 caves (Glory 'ole, Resonance, and Arch) overlap in plan view (I
> want to produce a high level map with all three caves in different colours,
> initially just line plots but eventually real maps)
>
>
>
> White Ridge
>
> -7 km in 3 main caves and a half dozen smaller caves Linked by radio
> location and GPS
>
>
>
> Larch Mountain
>
>
>
> 2 km in 3 main caves and a dozen smaller caves linked by GPS
>
>
>
> I also have a friend that manages data for Weymer Creek (over 30 km in
> over 100 caves, longest are 12 and 9 km lots of caves overlap in plan
> view). I am trying to convince him to switch to Therion too.
>
>
>
> I am looking for an example data set that has
>
>
>
> 1) multiple caves in one caving area
>
> 2) at least one cave large enough to be broken into series
>
> 3) overlapping layers in at least one of the caves
>
> 4) examples of files to produces different outputs with overlapping caves
> or cave series in different colours on the same map.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Rob Countess
>
>
>
> PS If you don't want to spam the mailing list then send to:
>
> rob.countess at gmail.com
>
>
>
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk
> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
>
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<http://mailman.speleo.sk/pipermail/therion/attachments/20150426/1e56e71d/attachment.html>

[Therion] Therion Digest, Vol 112, Issue 5

[Rob Countess]

Does anyone mind sending me one of your data sets. It would help me
understand the structure and organization.
I have data for several cave areas on Vancouver Island BC Canada in Walls
and On Station. I want to convert the whole mess.
My data sets are

Glory 'ole/Arch Cave area
   -18 km in 4 main caves and a dozen or so smaller caves linked by
overland survey and GPS
   - longest caves are  Arch (10.6 km km 3 entrances), Glory 'ole (2.7 km)
Pellucidar (1.9 km) Resonance (1.8 km)
   - Arch cave is divided into several series based on streams and distinct
areas of the cave
   - 3 caves (Glory 'ole, Resonance, and Arch) overlap in plan view (I want
to produce a high level map with all three caves in different colours,
initially just line plots but eventually real maps)

White Ridge
-7 km in 3 main caves and a half dozen smaller caves Linked by radio
location and GPS

Larch Mountain

2 km in 3 main caves and a dozen smaller caves linked by GPS

I also have a friend that manages data for Weymer Creek (over 30 km in over
100 caves, longest are 12 and 9 km lots of caves overlap in plan view). I
am trying to convince him to switch to Therion too.

I am looking for an example data set that has

1) multiple caves in one caving area
2) at least one cave large enough to be broken into series
3) overlapping layers in at least one of the caves
4) examples of files to produces different outputs with overlapping caves
or cave series in different colours on the same map.

Thanks,

Rob Countess

PS If you don't want to spam the mailing list then send to:
rob.countess at gmail.com


On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 6:35 PM, Xavier Pennec 
wrote:

> if all stations have different name in Compass and Walls, could they be
> put in a single survey name-space?
> However, I agree that this is not the cleanest way as it is not respecting
> the structure of surveys that was previously defined.
>
> Xavier
>
> Le 22/04/2015 13:31, Martin Sluka a écrit :
>
>> The problem of Compass and Walls data conversion is generate list of
>> equate commands. In Compass and Walls it is simple, because there couldn’t
>> be two stations with identical name. But in Therion it is not a rule. So
>> you should to do it manually.
>>
>> in survey12 which is above survey1 and survey2:
>>
>> equal a101 at survey1 a101 at survey2
>>
>> m.s.
>>
>>
>>  19. 4. 2015 v 10:20, Robert Countess :
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> This is from the Glory ‘ole caving area on Vancouver Island. I surveyed
>>> there from 1996 to 2007 in Arch Cave (10.5 km) Glory ‘ole (now 2.8 km) and
>>> Resonance (now 1.8 km). The area had been previously explored from
>>> 1980-1988 and some maps produced by hand. Much of the original data was
>>> lost. I resurveyed a few km in Arch cave and added 5 km but never completed
>>> a map due to the fact that loop closures were wreaking havoc with my walls
>>> and Illustrator attempts at a map. The original data in Arch was sketchy
>>> solo topofil survey. Resonance was extended by about 1km and an map
>>> produced but recently another half kilometre of passage has been added.
>>> Glory ‘ole was increased by about a kilometre but the main passage 
>>> original
>>> survey 1.3 km needed to be resurveyed which led to no map. There are
>>> drafting leads in connection areas between the three caves. Two other caves
>>> Pellucidar and Tsulton Rising (cave dive) were managed by Pat Shaw, a cave
>>> diver.
>>>
>>> I went off to medical school in 2007 and nobody picked up the torch as
>>> far as drawing maps. Now I’m back and we are at it again. I want Therion 
>>> to
>>> keep the maps up to date with the exploration going forward.
>>>
>>> The data is from 2004. I lost my 2007 copy due to 7 years of neglect and
>>> hard drive failure. I still have original notes of all exploration I was
>>> involved in but there are probably 3 km of passage that should be
>>> resurveyed.
>>>
>>> I’m getting the hang of Therion and have got Resonance and Glory ‘ole
>>> centerline data converted over.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 19, 2015, at 12:54 AM, Martin Sluka  wrote:
>>>
>>>  Robert, may you send me an example of Walls data?
>>>>
>>>> I was surprised how simple is to convert Compass data to Therion. As I
>>>> may say, Compass data are small subset of Therion’s format so several
>>>> simple copy/paste made the job.
>>>>
>>>> m.s.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  19. 4. 2015 v 6:41, Robert Countess :
>>>>>
>>>>> Than