Re: [Therion] How to morph sketches

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

And final note (I hope):

There are two kinds of images in thTMPDIR folder: .png (or other extension) and 
.gif. The first one is the source background image, the .gif one is the morphed 
image.

Martin


> 30. 6. 2021 v 22:06, Martin Sluka :
> 
> For example, image from morphing - sketch-warp point and the same image with 
> enhanced contrast and unsharping.
> 
> Martin
> 
> <418-419-4110_point.png><418-419-4110_point_us.png>

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Re: [Therion] How to morph sketches

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

An final solution:

You may use Command line option when compiling. It will create the folder 
thTMPDIR in working directory. and save there all temporary files created 
during compilation. There you may find your morphed background image too. 
Rename it, move to directory with sketches and use in normal way as any 
background image. You may unsharp it, make more contrast, make transparent and 
so on.

Thanks Stacho to pointed me to this option. Life with Therion is more easy now. 
:)

Martin






> 28. 6. 2021 v 12:30, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion :
> 
> On 28/06/2021 09:58, Martin Sluka via Therion wrote:
>> 28. 6. 2021 v 10:17, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion > 
>> >>:
>>> 
>>> Ah yes, doing it as separate scraps is a lot less messy. Though in the
>>> end you then probably have to keep using multiple scraps, even if the
>>> idea was to warp it into a nice shape so you can draw it up as a single
>>> scrap.
>> 
>> Anyway you may use all morphed sketches in one final scrap (Torsten).
>> Take care if you add another xvi file it will go above of recent one. So
>> the way is to switch visibility of mesh (xvi itself) to off and move
>> morphed sketch (xvi - IMGn) to correct position: select that sketch in
>> "Background images" field, check coordinates of cursor (lover right
>> corner of map editor window) where you want to place it, write those
>> coordinates to fields next of “Move to” and press Enter. Manually move
>> sketch to exact position. There is the bug in Therion that th2 file will
>> remember only 3 such positions. For fourth and next you should repeat
>> that last step after you open th2 file again.
>> 
>> To move to your sketch is the shortest way to click on point or line in
>> “Object section” - on the top of sections menu.
> 
> So that would be a solution to Bill's problem, of combining separate
> surveys of a single room into one scrap. (Think someone mentioned this
> in that thread too...)
> 
> Just need to set the -name property correctly for each survey station
> (like 1@subsurvey1) if you end up using the resulting .th2 from a parent
> survey that has access to all of the subsurvey data.
> 
> And if they are paper drawings, perhaps morph (warp) them first using
> the instructions from earlier mails in this thread.
> 
> This has been a hugely useful learning exercise :)
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Re: [Therion] How to morph sketches

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

And you may prepare two versions of morphed scraps - one with 50% transparency 
and move them to correct position and then replace it wit no transparent using 
coordinates. You may use screenshots, ..

The increase quality of morphed sketches enhance contrast of sketches. 

Martin

Odesláno z iPhonu

28. 6. 2021 v 12:30, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion :

>> On 28/06/2021 09:58, Martin Sluka via Therion wrote:
>> 28. 6. 2021 v 10:17, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion > >:
>>> 
>>> Ah yes, doing it as separate scraps is a lot less messy. Though in the
>>> end you then probably have to keep using multiple scraps, even if the
>>> idea was to warp it into a nice shape so you can draw it up as a single
>>> scrap.
>> 
>> Anyway you may use all morphed sketches in one final scrap (Torsten).
>> Take care if you add another xvi file it will go above of recent one. So
>> the way is to switch visibility of mesh (xvi itself) to off and move
>> morphed sketch (xvi - IMGn) to correct position: select that sketch in
>> "Background images" field, check coordinates of cursor (lover right
>> corner of map editor window) where you want to place it, write those
>> coordinates to fields next of “Move to” and press Enter. Manually move
>> sketch to exact position. There is the bug in Therion that th2 file will
>> remember only 3 such positions. For fourth and next you should repeat
>> that last step after you open th2 file again.
>> 
>> To move to your sketch is the shortest way to click on point or line in
>> “Object section” - on the top of sections menu.
> 
> So that would be a solution to Bill's problem, of combining separate
> surveys of a single room into one scrap. (Think someone mentioned this
> in that thread too...)
> 
> Just need to set the -name property correctly for each survey station
> (like 1@subsurvey1) if you end up using the resulting .th2 from a parent
> survey that has access to all of the subsurvey data.
> 
> And if they are paper drawings, perhaps morph (warp) them first using
> the instructions from earlier mails in this thread.
> 
> This has been a hugely useful learning exercise :)
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> https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
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Re: [Therion] How to morph sketches

[Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion]

On 28/06/2021 09:58, Martin Sluka via Therion wrote:
> 28. 6. 2021 v 10:17, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion  >:
>>
>> Ah yes, doing it as separate scraps is a lot less messy. Though in the
>> end you then probably have to keep using multiple scraps, even if the
>> idea was to warp it into a nice shape so you can draw it up as a single
>> scrap.
> 
> Anyway you may use all morphed sketches in one final scrap (Torsten).
> Take care if you add another xvi file it will go above of recent one. So
> the way is to switch visibility of mesh (xvi itself) to off and move
> morphed sketch (xvi - IMGn) to correct position: select that sketch in
> "Background images" field, check coordinates of cursor (lover right
> corner of map editor window) where you want to place it, write those
> coordinates to fields next of “Move to” and press Enter. Manually move
> sketch to exact position. There is the bug in Therion that th2 file will
> remember only 3 such positions. For fourth and next you should repeat
> that last step after you open th2 file again.
> 
> To move to your sketch is the shortest way to click on point or line in
> “Object section” - on the top of sections menu.

So that would be a solution to Bill's problem, of combining separate
surveys of a single room into one scrap. (Think someone mentioned this
in that thread too...)

Just need to set the -name property correctly for each survey station
(like 1@subsurvey1) if you end up using the resulting .th2 from a parent
survey that has access to all of the subsurvey data.

And if they are paper drawings, perhaps morph (warp) them first using
the instructions from earlier mails in this thread.

This has been a hugely useful learning exercise :)
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Re: [Therion] How to morph sketches

[Torsten Schnitter via Therion]

Thanks a lot for these examples and explanation.
Now I got it to work. :-)
(you never stop learning about Therion...)

This last article from Marco is realy worth a read.
Great stuff!

cheers,
Torsten

> Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion  hat am 28.06.2021 10:17 
> geschrieben:
> 
>  
> > You are right. It could be very useful in simple passages. But in your
> > case I’ll divide sketch to three pieces first and try to use “extra”
> > points when LRUD are available.
> 
> Ah yes, doing it as separate scraps is a lot less messy. Though in the
> end you then probably have to keep using multiple scraps, even if the
> idea was to warp it into a nice shape so you can draw it up as a single
> scrap.
> 
> I tested out the "sketch-warp" option (that goes directly in the
> .thconfig file, not inside the layout). "plaquette" gave a very good
> resulting shape for my demo case (and was really fast!), but made the
> lines jagged and hard to see. "linear" preserved the sketch best but
> caused more distortion. "point" took forever, but the result was
> absolutely excellent. It is interesting to me that the default "line"
> gave the worst result of all options.
> 
> The Therion book does not mention "linear" or "point", and could do with
> an update. I found more details on this very old tutorial:
> http://marcocorvi.altervista.org/caving/tbe/m_04/m_045.htm
> 
> Torsten, that article is a treasure trove for you!
> 
> > Note: You may change order of morphed sketches and xvi with splay shots,
> > centreline and xvi mesh, switch visibility on/off, move them to exact
> > coordinates in “Background sketches” part of Map editor.
> 
> Are these documented anywhere? Specifically how to use the options.
> 
> I can see the "point extra" options in the linked article above, but not
> how to use the coordinates or visibility.
> 
> Feeling like I must have missed something, since the Therion book
> doesn't mention "background sketches" at all, and only describes setting
>  and  coordinates for the scrap's -sketch option. I am guessing
> that x/y lets you offset the sketch to a more useful location relative
> to your stations (though I have no idea why you would need to).
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Re: [Therion] How to morph sketches

[Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion]

> You are right. It could be very useful in simple passages. But in your
> case I’ll divide sketch to three pieces first and try to use “extra”
> points when LRUD are available.

Ah yes, doing it as separate scraps is a lot less messy. Though in the
end you then probably have to keep using multiple scraps, even if the
idea was to warp it into a nice shape so you can draw it up as a single
scrap.

I tested out the "sketch-warp" option (that goes directly in the
.thconfig file, not inside the layout). "plaquette" gave a very good
resulting shape for my demo case (and was really fast!), but made the
lines jagged and hard to see. "linear" preserved the sketch best but
caused more distortion. "point" took forever, but the result was
absolutely excellent. It is interesting to me that the default "line"
gave the worst result of all options.

The Therion book does not mention "linear" or "point", and could do with
an update. I found more details on this very old tutorial:
http://marcocorvi.altervista.org/caving/tbe/m_04/m_045.htm

Torsten, that article is a treasure trove for you!

> Note: You may change order of morphed sketches and xvi with splay shots,
> centreline and xvi mesh, switch visibility on/off, move them to exact
> coordinates in “Background sketches” part of Map editor.

Are these documented anywhere? Specifically how to use the options.

I can see the "point extra" options in the linked article above, but not
how to use the coordinates or visibility.

Feeling like I must have missed something, since the Therion book
doesn't mention "background sketches" at all, and only describes setting
 and  coordinates for the scrap's -sketch option. I am guessing
that x/y lets you offset the sketch to a more useful location relative
to your stations (though I have no idea why you would need to).
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Re: [Therion] How to morph sketches

[Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion]

Hi Torsten,

> As I read some of the last mails I came to the question how to morph a
> sketch.

You don't.

> All I found was on page 89 ff in the book which shows some pictures
> before and after morphing.

Clarification; that appears to be page 94 of this:
https://therion.speleo.sk/downloads/thbook.pdf

> If I got it right it is possible like that:

Those pages of the book do not (at east to my knowledge) show how you do
things with Therion.

You do not warp the drawings. You start with the original drawings in a
.th2 file. Create a "scrap" and set the approximate scale and
approximate scale directions (x/y = east distance/north distance) -
normally it doesn't matter if you get this wrong, as long as you have
more than one station per scrap, but occasionally it makes very odd
shapes if you get it badly wrong. Inside that scrap, you put "station"
points on the stations shown in your drawings. You then draw the walls
using "wall" lines (and other features using other lines). Then when you
process the survey with Therion, it takes the line vectors, and warps
those as needed to force them to align with the real directions of the
survey legs.

I *think* those pages of the book are just trying to help you visualise
how Therion will internally warp the *vector* drawing to match the legs.
It does not actually warp the xvi/image drawings. The book is trying to
show you how the morphing approach would need to correct the
imperfections of a sketch to make it align with reality.

But maybe I am also wrong, and Therion might have some very cool
functionality I have never seen. No doubt one of the highly experienced
users will confirm either way.

Cheers

Tarquin
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Re: [Therion] How to morph sketches

[Benedikt Hallinger]

What is the advantage of digitizing a morphed sketch over just let therion 
morph the raw digitized sketch?

I usually just digitize the raw paper sketch and get good results.

> Am 27.06.2021 um 12:43 schrieb Torsten Schnitter via Therion 
> :
> 
> 
> Hi
> 
> As I read some of the last mails I came to the question how to morph a 
> sketch. 
> I searched the wiki and the Therion book but could not find how to do it. 
> All I found was on page 89 ff in the book which shows some pictures before 
> and after morphing.
> But no explanation how to do it in detail. 
> 
> If I got it right it is possible like that: 
> Someone have an image, a sketch of a cave area (which is not orientated 
> correctly at all). 
> And you have some survey data from that passage (which should be correct). 
> The sketch is scanned to a png or jpg file. 
> Now you can morph this image file into a xvi file where the image is morphed 
> to the correct orientation matching the messured survey data. 
> The final result is a new xvi file (with correctly morphed) image inside so 
> you can use this new xvi file (including survey data as a line and the 
> correctly morphed sketch itself) as a background image to draw the final 
> scrap. 
> Or did I get this wrong? 
> 
> Can anyone describe in detail how to do this please!?
> Apparently I'm too stupid to make it... 
> I put a sketch and the survey data from a small passage to this email as a 
> possible example to show how this process does work.
> Many thanks in advance. 
> 
> regards, 
> Torsten 
> 
> 
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