Re: [Therion] Extended profile problems

[Bruce Mutton]

It is never easy in my experience.  Extend ignore will be the answer, if there 
is one.  I tend to get the network shape correct first before trying to draw.  
There are some scrap statements that can then mess it up.  Subtle variations in 
approach may make a big difference.
Bruce

-Original Message-
From: Therion  On Behalf Of Martin Sluka via Therion
Sent: Sunday, 8 September 2019 20:01
To: List for Therion users 
Cc: Martin Sluka 
Subject: Re: [Therion] Extended profile problems


> 8. 9. 2019 v 9:20, Bruce Mutton :
> 
>> I dislike taking out a survey shot.  Maybe the thing to do is have a 
>> different centerline data file for generating this profile.
> 
> You could see if extend hide or extend ignore will do the trick.  Better than 
> removing data or duplicating it.
> This 
> https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/extend?s[]=extend#summary_of_all_extend_options_for_survey_centrelines
>  may not be directly applicable, but may give some insights.
> Bruce
> 

It does crazy things. Maybe if there will be added another parameter to command 
extend - something as „no-loop“. But I’m not sure how much modification of code 
it would require.

Martin

extend hide G14-G1

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Re: [Therion] Extended profile problems

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

> 8. 9. 2019 v 9:20, Bruce Mutton :
> 
>> I dislike taking out a survey shot.  Maybe the thing to do is have a 
>> different centerline data file for generating this profile.
> 
> You could see if extend hide or extend ignore will do the trick.  Better than 
> removing data or duplicating it.
> This 
> https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/extend?s[]=extend#summary_of_all_extend_options_for_survey_centrelines
>  may not be directly applicable, but may give some insights.
> Bruce
> 

It does crazy things. Maybe if there will be added another parameter to command 
extend - something as „no-loop“. But I’m not sure how much modification of code 
it would require.

Martin

extend hide G14-G1


StarkCavernsExtended_extend_hide_G14_G1.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document


extend ignore G14-G1


StarkCavernsExtended_extend_ignore_G14_G1.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document


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Re: [Therion] Extended profile problems

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

> 8. 9. 2019 v 9:20, Bruce Mutton :
> 
>> I dislike taking out a survey shot.  Maybe the thing to do is have a 
>> different centerline data file for generating this profile.
> 
> You could see if extend hide or extend ignore will do the trick.  Better than 
> removing data or duplicating it.
> This 
> https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/extend?s[]=extend#summary_of_all_extend_options_for_survey_centrelines
>  may not be directly applicable, but may give some insights.
> Bruce

I’m not sure it may have any effect. If there is shot the G14-G1 Therion will 
calculate with a loop. 

Martin
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Re: [Therion] Extended profile problems

[Bruce Mutton]

> I dislike taking out a survey shot.  Maybe the thing to do is have a 
> different centerline data file for generating this profile.

You could see if extend hide or extend ignore will do the trick.  Better than 
removing data or duplicating it.
This 
https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/extend?s[]=extend#summary_of_all_extend_options_for_survey_centrelines
 may not be directly applicable, but may give some insights.
Bruce

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Re: [Therion] Extended profile problems

[Bill Gee]

Hi Martin -

Hmmm   That is exactly what I am looking for.  I dislike taking out a 
survey shot.  Maybe the thing to do is have a different centerline data file 
for generating this profile.

Now that I know why the profile was so messed up, I can consider how to 
proceed.  Thanks for all the advice and the samples.

This part of the cave has an additional complication that I will eventually 
have to deal with.  From station G8 there is another passage that goes down to 
the west.  We have not yet surveyed that passage.  Depicting its profile is 
going to be interesting!  I will probably start a new profile sketch for it.

-- 
Bill Gee



On Saturday, September 7, 2019 3:21:30 AM CDT Martin Sluka via Therion wrote:
> 
> > 6. 9. 2019 v 17:41, Bill Gee :
> > 
> > I want one continuous profile extending from OC5a on the left to G14 on the 
> > right. 
> 
> Just commented G14-G1, a bit shorted ends of scraps  on station G10 and added 
> join command.
> 
> Martin
> 
> 




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Re: [Therion] Extended profile problems

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

> 6. 9. 2019 v 17:41, Bill Gee :
> 
> I want one continuous profile extending from OC5a on the left to G14 on the 
> right. 

Just commented G14-G1, a bit shorted ends of scraps  on station G10 and added 
join command.

Martin



StarkCavernsExtended_no_loop_G14_G1.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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Re: [Therion] Extended profile problems

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

Hi Bill,

> 6. 9. 2019 v 17:41, Bill Gee :
> 
> Thanks!  This is much better, but still not what I want.  I don't want the 
> profile to fold back on itself at all.  I want one continuous profile 
> extending from OC5a on the left to G14 on the right.  Is that possible?

I’m not sure if this is possible without using another centreline file where 
the loop will be not closed. So for map you should have data with loops and for 
extended profile without loops. 

> If I draw them as "projection none", then two questions come up.  First, if I 
> put survey stations in the scrap will they be used to scale the drawing?  
> Second, can two (or more) such scraps be joined?

I don’t know this is possible. Projection none is for sections only.  

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Re: [Therion] Extended profile problems

[Bill Gee]

Hi Martin -

Thanks!  This is much better, but still not what I want.  I don't want the 
profile to fold back on itself at all.  I want one continuous profile extending 
from OC5a on the left to G14 on the right.  Is that possible?

If I draw them as "projection none", then two questions come up.  First, if I 
put survey stations in the scrap will they be used to scale the drawing?  
Second, can two (or more) such scraps be joined?

-- 
Bill Gee



On Friday, September 6, 2019 10:26:52 AM CDT Martin Sluka via Therion wrote:
> Hi Bill,
> 
> it looks you have not defined „extend“ of centerline in your centerline data. 
> 
> Because extend right is default Therion will extend your stations form OC5a 
> to the right, but it has to close the loop and there should be the problem.
> 
> Your scrap extended Profile-OC5a-G10 includes stations OC5a to G10, stations 
> OC5a-G are extended to East but stations C9 and C10 are extended to West.
> 
> Try to divide that loop to two scraps from OC5a to G8 and G8 to G14 and add 
> extend commands. Not use join commands for first elevation export.
> 
>  extend right
> OC5a  G1 19.6   134 3.0314-3.0   1.0 9.8 18.7 3.5
>   G1G2 20.4   13329.0313   -28.0   3.0 6.6 17.3 4.2
>   G2G3 21.2   12513.0306   -13.0   2.3 3.0 9.3 6.4
>   G3G4 22.660 4.0239-5.0   6.2 2.0 4.8 2.4
>   G4G5  4.548   -10.022810.0   2.6 1.7 1.2 0.3
>   G5G6 12.3   10118.0281   -18.0   1.5 1.5 7.2 0.3
>   G6G7  9.0   127 7.0308-7.0   7.3 16.2 5.1 2.0
>   G7G8 10.944-8.0225 8.0   12.8 10.4 4.1 2.3
>   extend left
> G8G9  8.5   335   -15.015716.0   8.5 27.4 2.7 3.1
>   G9G1015.5   307-1.0128.5   1.0   3.4 3.9 0.7 0.8
>   G10   G1132.0   267-1.5 88.5   2.0   7.4 5.6 0.5 1.0
>   G11   G1221.8   262 0.0 81 0.0   1.7 4.8 1.5 1.4
>   G12   G13 5.7   246 6.0  --6.0   1.8 3.0 1.0 2.0
>   G13   G1413.9   236   -61.0 5762.0   - - - -
>   extend hide 
> G14   G1  5.9 -   -32.022032.0   - - - -
>   
> flags splay
>   G1G1a12.9   200-6.0  - 6.0   20.0 20.0 17.3 4.2
>   G7G7a18.4   24912.0  -   -12.0   10.4 12.8 4.1 2.3
> flags not splay
> 
> Add command select to your thconfig file
> 
> source StarkCaverns.th
> 
> select StarkCavernsProfiles@StarkCavernsProfiles
> 
> 
> # Load the Metapost code for custom symbols
> 
> and add to scrap  G10-G14 (G8-G14) parameter -flip horizontal, because in 
> output it should be flipped.
> 
> 




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Re: [Therion] Extended profile problems

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

Hi Bill,

it looks you have not defined „extend“ of centerline in your centerline data. 

Because extend right is default Therion will extend your stations form OC5a to 
the right, but it has to close the loop and there should be the problem.

Your scrap extended Profile-OC5a-G10 includes stations OC5a to G10, stations 
OC5a-G are extended to East but stations C9 and C10 are extended to West.

Try to divide that loop to two scraps from OC5a to G8 and G8 to G14 and add 
extend commands. Not use join commands for first elevation export.

 extend right
OC5a  G1 19.6   134 3.0314-3.0   1.0 9.8 18.7 3.5
  G1G2 20.4   13329.0313   -28.0   3.0 6.6 17.3 4.2
  G2G3 21.2   12513.0306   -13.0   2.3 3.0 9.3 6.4
  G3G4 22.660 4.0239-5.0   6.2 2.0 4.8 2.4
  G4G5  4.548   -10.022810.0   2.6 1.7 1.2 0.3
  G5G6 12.3   10118.0281   -18.0   1.5 1.5 7.2 0.3
  G6G7  9.0   127 7.0308-7.0   7.3 16.2 5.1 2.0
  G7G8 10.944-8.0225 8.0   12.8 10.4 4.1 2.3
  extend left
G8G9  8.5   335   -15.015716.0   8.5 27.4 2.7 3.1
  G9G1015.5   307-1.0128.5   1.0   3.4 3.9 0.7 0.8
  G10   G1132.0   267-1.5 88.5   2.0   7.4 5.6 0.5 1.0
  G11   G1221.8   262 0.0 81 0.0   1.7 4.8 1.5 1.4
  G12   G13 5.7   246 6.0  --6.0   1.8 3.0 1.0 2.0
  G13   G1413.9   236   -61.0 5762.0   - - - -
  extend hide 
G14   G1  5.9 -   -32.022032.0   - - - -
  
flags splay
  G1G1a12.9   200-6.0  - 6.0   20.0 20.0 17.3 4.2
  G7G7a18.4   24912.0  -   -12.0   10.4 12.8 4.1 2.3
flags not splay

Add command select to your thconfig file

source StarkCaverns.th

select StarkCavernsProfiles@StarkCavernsProfiles


# Load the Metapost code for custom symbols

and add to scrap  G10-G14 (G8-G14) parameter -flip horizontal, because in 
output it should be flipped.



Martin



StarkCavernsElevations-G10-G14.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document


StarkCavernsElevations-OC5a-G10.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document

And after some editing:



StarkCavernsElevations-OC5a-G14.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document




> 6. 9. 2019 v 16:09, Bill Gee :
> 
> Hi Martin -
> 
> This is a commercial cave - there are no secrets!  The attached ZIP file has 
> the thconfig, .th, .th2 and centerline data files for the whole project.
> 
> -- 
> Bill Gee
> 
> 
> 
> On Friday, September 6, 2019 8:50:38 AM CDT Martin Sluka via Therion wrote:
>> Bill, 
>> 
>> may you publish all your data? Or send it privately?
>> 
>> Martin
>> 
>>> 6. 9. 2019 v 15:47, Bill Gee :
>>> 
>>> Hello everyone -
>>> 
>>> I have not been putting elevation profiles on my maps for several years 
>>> because it is such a pain to do in Therion.  The time has come where I need 
>>> to start adding them to several maps in progress.  
>>> 
>>> In the past I have defined the profile scraps as type "elevation" and given 
>>> them a viewpoint angle.  The profile I am working on now will not work for 
>>> that because it basically goes around in a circle.  There is no viewpoint 
>>> angle where the entire profile lays out in a line.  The plan view is a loop.
>>> 
>>> So for this one I defined the scrap as type "extended".  Holy cow, that 
>>> makes a mess of things!  Take a look at the attached file.  This is so 
>>> distorted it is hard to figure out how it relates to the drawing!  The 
>>> stations in this profile go about 3/4 of the way around the circle.  The 
>>> upper half of the resulting map is upside down and magnified about 5 times 
>>> larger than it should be.
>>> 
>>> What am I missing???  Do I correctly understand that an "extended" scrap 
>>> should draw just the way it appears on the original sketch?  How should I 
>>> be drawing
>>> 
>>> Maybe I should completely skip using elevations.  I can probably make them 
>>> work by drawing as cross-sections.  Indeed, that might be easier to fit 
>>> onto the final map.  I think the only real problem there is whether 
>>> cross-section scraps can be joined.
>>> 
>> 
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Re: [Therion] Extended profile problems

[Philippe Vernant]

Hi Bill,

Not sure to understand what you are trying to do. Are you trying to make the 
full extended profile of the cave ? In which .th2 is your profile drawing ? 

Phil

> On 6 Sep 2019, at 16:09, Bill Gee  wrote:
> 
> Hi Martin -
> 
> This is a commercial cave - there are no secrets!  The attached ZIP file has 
> the thconfig, .th, .th2 and centerline data files for the whole project.
> 
> -- 
> Bill Gee
> 
> 
> 
> On Friday, September 6, 2019 8:50:38 AM CDT Martin Sluka via Therion wrote:
>> Bill, 
>> 
>> may you publish all your data? Or send it privately?
>> 
>> Martin
>> 
>>> 6. 9. 2019 v 15:47, Bill Gee :
>>> 
>>> Hello everyone -
>>> 
>>> I have not been putting elevation profiles on my maps for several years 
>>> because it is such a pain to do in Therion.  The time has come where I need 
>>> to start adding them to several maps in progress.  
>>> 
>>> In the past I have defined the profile scraps as type "elevation" and given 
>>> them a viewpoint angle.  The profile I am working on now will not work for 
>>> that because it basically goes around in a circle.  There is no viewpoint 
>>> angle where the entire profile lays out in a line.  The plan view is a loop.
>>> 
>>> So for this one I defined the scrap as type "extended".  Holy cow, that 
>>> makes a mess of things!  Take a look at the attached file.  This is so 
>>> distorted it is hard to figure out how it relates to the drawing!  The 
>>> stations in this profile go about 3/4 of the way around the circle.  The 
>>> upper half of the resulting map is upside down and magnified about 5 times 
>>> larger than it should be.
>>> 
>>> What am I missing???  Do I correctly understand that an "extended" scrap 
>>> should draw just the way it appears on the original sketch?  How should I 
>>> be drawing
>>> 
>>> Maybe I should completely skip using elevations.  I can probably make them 
>>> work by drawing as cross-sections.  Indeed, that might be easier to fit 
>>> onto the final map.  I think the only real problem there is whether 
>>> cross-section scraps can be joined.
>>> 
>> 
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>> 
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Re: [Therion] Extended profile problems

[Bill Gee]

Hi Martin -

This is a commercial cave - there are no secrets!  The attached ZIP file has 
the thconfig, .th, .th2 and centerline data files for the whole project.

-- 
Bill Gee



On Friday, September 6, 2019 8:50:38 AM CDT Martin Sluka via Therion wrote:
> Bill, 
> 
> may you publish all your data? Or send it privately?
> 
> Martin
> 
> > 6. 9. 2019 v 15:47, Bill Gee :
> > 
> > Hello everyone -
> > 
> > I have not been putting elevation profiles on my maps for several years 
> > because it is such a pain to do in Therion.  The time has come where I need 
> > to start adding them to several maps in progress.  
> > 
> > In the past I have defined the profile scraps as type "elevation" and given 
> > them a viewpoint angle.  The profile I am working on now will not work for 
> > that because it basically goes around in a circle.  There is no viewpoint 
> > angle where the entire profile lays out in a line.  The plan view is a loop.
> > 
> > So for this one I defined the scrap as type "extended".  Holy cow, that 
> > makes a mess of things!  Take a look at the attached file.  This is so 
> > distorted it is hard to figure out how it relates to the drawing!  The 
> > stations in this profile go about 3/4 of the way around the circle.  The 
> > upper half of the resulting map is upside down and magnified about 5 times 
> > larger than it should be.
> > 
> > What am I missing???  Do I correctly understand that an "extended" scrap 
> > should draw just the way it appears on the original sketch?  How should I 
> > be drawing
> > 
> > Maybe I should completely skip using elevations.  I can probably make them 
> > work by drawing as cross-sections.  Indeed, that might be easier to fit 
> > onto the final map.  I think the only real problem there is whether 
> > cross-section scraps can be joined.
> > 
> 
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Re: [Therion] Extended profile problems

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

Bill, 

may you publish all your data? Or send it privately?

Martin

> 6. 9. 2019 v 15:47, Bill Gee :
> 
> Hello everyone -
> 
> I have not been putting elevation profiles on my maps for several years 
> because it is such a pain to do in Therion.  The time has come where I need 
> to start adding them to several maps in progress.  
> 
> In the past I have defined the profile scraps as type "elevation" and given 
> them a viewpoint angle.  The profile I am working on now will not work for 
> that because it basically goes around in a circle.  There is no viewpoint 
> angle where the entire profile lays out in a line.  The plan view is a loop.
> 
> So for this one I defined the scrap as type "extended".  Holy cow, that makes 
> a mess of things!  Take a look at the attached file.  This is so distorted it 
> is hard to figure out how it relates to the drawing!  The stations in this 
> profile go about 3/4 of the way around the circle.  The upper half of the 
> resulting map is upside down and magnified about 5 times larger than it 
> should be.
> 
> What am I missing???  Do I correctly understand that an "extended" scrap 
> should draw just the way it appears on the original sketch?  How should I be 
> drawing
> 
> Maybe I should completely skip using elevations.  I can probably make them 
> work by drawing as cross-sections.  Indeed, that might be easier to fit onto 
> the final map.  I think the only real problem there is whether cross-section 
> scraps can be joined.
> 
> -- 
> Bill Gee
> 
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