Re: [tw] Re: TW to learn/study node-js?

[Alex Hough]

I was thinking about this yesterday I keep on thinking I should learn
javascript, but each time the motivation disappears. I just want to tinker
with TiddlyWikis: as Bob Dylan once sang, it levels my head and eases my
mind, where as learning javascript does it in.

I think it would be good to learn about

objects, functions, closures and recursions

in TW

Would it be fair to say that TW uses a "functional approach" to JS?



Alex



On 9 December 2015 at 22:46, Mat  wrote:

> Guys - thank you all for your informative answers, particularly Marios of
> course!
>
> Ok, my friend is actually really new with coding all together so I think I
> will not advice her to get into TW (at this time). I'll show her this
> thread though so, again, thank you all!
>
> <:-)
>
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[tw] Re: upgrade.html does still requires an upgrade on each tiddler

[TD]

Any news on this upgrade path?  I still have a mass of my information in TW 
Classic and would love to move on to TW5.

Thanks, TD

On Saturday, June 27, 2015 at 5:13:39 PM UTC+10, TD wrote:
>
> That's great news.  Thanks Jeremy.
>

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[tw] Re: Struggling to Understand the Available TW5 Web Hosted Options

[Daniel Metcalfe]

Thanks for taking the time to write this in-depth reply Tobias. I also 
found this tiddler of yours that helped further clarify a few things: Hosting 
Via node.js Or store.php? 


I just have a couple more questions relating to my particular use case: I 
use TiddlyWiki as a personal knowledge database. I have no need to publish 
things with it, I simply want maximum ease of use. I want to be able to 
edit it in-browser, from anywhere, picking up from where I left off.

>From what you've told me the very simplest way to do that seems to be to 
use *store.php*. That seems to be precisely what TiddlySpot is doing for me 
already, but I find the interaction quite clunky in that I have to download 
a copy, edit, and then save to push back to the server. Using multiple 
devices to access my TiddlyWiki means I also have to take another offline 
copy from TiddlySpot every time I wish to edit, or otherwise remember which 
machine I last used it on. I can change the save options in the TiddlyWiki 
control panel so that it saves in browser, but then I can't seem to 
download a copy for backup without changing these settings once again. 
Another problem is that to edit on iOS is simply too much work, but 
sometimes I really need to get stuff out of my brain and into a tiddler, in 
browser saving would therefore also be preferable here.

Hosting myself seemed to be the best way to get around TiddlySpot's 
limitations (although there could be a way to work with it I've not found). 
I can save in-browser whilst still keeping my own backups (as it would be 
hosted on my own machine).

I understand your main point to be that I can host my TiddlyWiki anywhere 
just as it is, seen as it is just a HTML page; no need for a fancy server 
deployment. May I ask though why you choose to use the node.js 
implementation locally? Is it just so you can manage the wiki by individual 
tiddler? And if so is that tiddler-centric management of the wiki the only 
real difference between node and single page TiddlyWiki?

Cheers,
Dan

For me, TiddlyWiki is just for personal use, and so I have no need to 
publish things

On Monday, 7 December 2015 21:44:01 UTC, Tobias Beer wrote:
>
> Hi Daniel,
>
> Welcome and all the best for your journey's with TiddlyWiki.
>
> As for hosting, the very easiest way is to *simply upload your wiki 
> someplace*.
>
> What I currently do is work mostly offline with node.js under localhost.
> However, to publish stuff, I actually build wikis that are then pushed, 
> e.g. to GitHub pages.
> ...while also pushing the individual tiddlers from which they are built up 
> there, for versioning.
>
> You could just use FileZilla and any host giving you ftp access, and 
> you're done.
> If you fancy static pages over big wikis, you can try to fiddle with 
> building those.
> But, the process is still quite cumbersome if you want things to work or 
> look differently.
>
> As for your questions, 
>
>>
>>- In what way are TiddlyWeb and the Node server different from one 
>>another? Are they two different ways of achieving the same thing (a web 
>>accessible TiddlyWiki)?
>>
>> TiddlyWeb is a python based server, the node server is a (very basic) js 
> server.
> You do not need any such server to have TiddlyWiki accessible over the web.
> Just upload the html alongside any external resources you may prefer 
> externalized. 
>
>>
>>- How does store.php fit in, is that an application of TiddlyWeb?
>>
>> The two have little to nothing in common.
> Store.php is a very simple php script allowing you to upload a wiki 
> document right from your browser,
> granted you have a php enabled server and said script properly configured. 
>
>>
>>- How does the term TiddlyWebWiki differ from TiddlyWeb?
>>
>> TiddlyWeb is a pretty general purpose server implementation to serving 
> tiddlers over HTTP... with things like bags, recipes, policies.
> TiddlyWebWiki adds a bit of a controler / view layer that caters for the 
> needs of a TiddlyWiki talking to TiddlyWeb, I believe.
> So the latter builds on the foundation of the former and allows you to 
> have your wiki talk to a tiddlyweb server and back.
>
>>
>>- As a single user, are there any advantages to self hosting a TW5 
>>Node server rather than allowing TiddlySpot to host it?
>>
>> I would not recommend "hosting" TiddlyWiki via some minimalistic node.js 
> server.
> There is hardly any benefit to it.
>
> Currently, the power of using TiddlyWiki under node.js does not lie in any 
> serving capabilities with respect to remote visitors.
>
> Keep in mind that we're also not quite at any workable multi-user 
> configurations... yet.
> ...unless working on a shared GitHub repo and someone merging changes back 
> to a master is an acceptable workflow to you. :D
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Tobias.
>

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Re: [tw] TW to learn/study node-js?

[Jeremy Ruston]

The great thing with learning programming is to have an itch to scratch that 
you find truly fascinating and engaging. It’s only through enthusiastic 
repetition that one gets any good as a programmer, and it’s hard to keep that 
going unless you’ve got some excitement about what you are doing.

So, if the prospect of adapting and improving your own use of TiddlyWiki is 
attractive, it’s a great environment for learning JavaScript for you. Simple 
tweaks can have a great impact on things, much more than burning through 
another dry exercise on one of the online tutorials.

The other thing I’d add is that one tends to learn a lot by studying and 
modifying the work of others. There are many environments where there is enough 
sharing for that process to take place, but TiddlyWiki is a pretty nice example 
because there are artefacts that smoothly progress through simple wikitext 
hacks through javascript macros and more intense customisations.

Best wishes

Jeremy.


> On 10 Dec 2015, at 08:24, Alex Hough  wrote:
> 
> I was thinking about this yesterday I keep on thinking I should learn 
> javascript, but each time the motivation disappears. I just want to tinker 
> with TiddlyWikis: as Bob Dylan once sang, it levels my head and eases my 
> mind, where as learning javascript does it in.
> 
> I think it would be good to learn about 
> 
> objects, functions, closures and recursions
> 
> in TW
> 
> Would it be fair to say that TW uses a "functional approach" to JS? 
> 
> 
> 
> Alex
> 
> 
> 
> On 9 December 2015 at 22:46, Mat  > wrote:
> Guys - thank you all for your informative answers, particularly Marios of 
> course!
> 
> Ok, my friend is actually really new with coding all together so I think I 
> will not advice her to get into TW (at this time). I'll show her this thread 
> though so, again, thank you all!
> 
> <:-)
> 
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[tw] Tidgraph - won't open below

[Alex Hough]

IM4U,

I'd like my tiddlers to open below my South facing tidgraph.

The plugin seems to over-ride the "open below current tiddler" behavior

Could this be changed?

Also, a feature requests. Could there me a "North" option that opens above
the current tiddler?

best



Alex

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[tw] Re: TiddlyWiki Hangout #93 will be on Tuesday 8th December at 4pm GMT/UTC

[Mat]

Could someone please post the *direct *link to the actual hangout (because 
they're not here, right?)
Still after these many years I don't know how to find the actual hangout, 
i.e not the Q&A.
Thanx.

<:-)


On Friday, December 4, 2015 at 6:32:21 PM UTC+1, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>
> TiddlyWiki Hangout #93 will be on Tuesday 8th December at 4pm GMT/UTC.
>
> Find out more and post questions:
>
> https://plus.google.com/events/ctvcat9o8l7l0rd72vpuvibbd20
>
> As usual, I’ve created a TiddlySpot for the agenda:
>
> http://hangout-93.tiddlyspot.com/
>
> I hope you can join me, and do please let me know if there are any topics 
> that you’d like to see covered,
>
> Best wishes
>
> Jeremy
>

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Re: [tw] Re: TiddlyWiki Hangout #93 will be on Tuesday 8th December at 4pm GMT/UTC

[Jeremy Ruston]

TiddlyWiki Hangout #93 is about to start

Watch or post questions at

https://plus.google.com/events/ctvcat9o8l7l0rd72vpuvibbd20

Or join in at

https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYdt8p3crwVfc87OFI6M8KDjhxbtHcCWnFlSQ15KpACyVUQaxw

Best wishes

Jeremy.


On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 4:10 PM, Jeremy Ruston 
wrote:

> Hi Mat
>
> I always post the link to join the hangout here on the group and on
> Twitter as the hangout starts.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Jeremy
>
> On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 4:07 PM, Mat  wrote:
>
>> Could someone please post the *direct *link to the actual hangout
>> (because they're not here, right?)
>> Still after these many years I don't know how to find the actual hangout,
>> i.e not the Q&A.
>> Thanx.
>>
>> <:-)
>>
>>
>> On Friday, December 4, 2015 at 6:32:21 PM UTC+1, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>>>
>>> TiddlyWiki Hangout #93 will be on Tuesday 8th December at 4pm GMT/UTC.
>>>
>>> Find out more and post questions:
>>>
>>> https://plus.google.com/events/ctvcat9o8l7l0rd72vpuvibbd20
>>>
>>> As usual, I’ve created a TiddlySpot for the agenda:
>>>
>>> http://hangout-93.tiddlyspot.com/
>>>
>>> I hope you can join me, and do please let me know if there are any
>>> topics that you’d like to see covered,
>>>
>>> Best wishes
>>>
>>> Jeremy
>>>
>> --
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>>
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>>
>
>
>
> --
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> mailto:jeremy.rus...@gmail.com
>



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Re: [tw] Re: TiddlyWiki Hangout #93 will be on Tuesday 8th December at 4pm GMT/UTC

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Mat

I always post the link to join the hangout here on the group and on Twitter
as the hangout starts.

Best wishes

Jeremy

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 4:07 PM, Mat  wrote:

> Could someone please post the *direct *link to the actual hangout
> (because they're not here, right?)
> Still after these many years I don't know how to find the actual hangout,
> i.e not the Q&A.
> Thanx.
>
> <:-)
>
>
> On Friday, December 4, 2015 at 6:32:21 PM UTC+1, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>>
>> TiddlyWiki Hangout #93 will be on Tuesday 8th December at 4pm GMT/UTC.
>>
>> Find out more and post questions:
>>
>> https://plus.google.com/events/ctvcat9o8l7l0rd72vpuvibbd20
>>
>> As usual, I’ve created a TiddlySpot for the agenda:
>>
>> http://hangout-93.tiddlyspot.com/
>>
>> I hope you can join me, and do please let me know if there are any topics
>> that you’d like to see covered,
>>
>> Best wishes
>>
>> Jeremy
>>
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[tw] Re: [tw5] Text-Slicer Plugin

[Evolena]

I've just noticed that *state tiddlers* for slider are stored in 
"$:/config/plugins/tiddlywiki/text-slicer/heading-status/..."
I think it would be better to use the same prefix as for other state 
tiddler: "$:/state/...". This way, if someone don't want to keep state 
tiddlers on saving, it would be consistent, instead of having to add 
another bit in the save filter(s).

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[tw] Re: Struggling to Understand the Available TW5 Web Hosted Options

[Tobias Beer]

Hi Daniel,

I have no need to publish things with it, I simply want maximum ease of use.
>

Define easy:

   1. easily manage individual tiddlers and move them about, perhaps into 
   dedicated topic wikis, e.g. "my cookbook"
   2. easily author tiddlers in a wiki

If your focus is merely 2. then there's no need for node.js. If you wish to 
be more flexible with how and where you store individual tidbits, with how 
you weave them together in an actual html wiki, with what plugins you wish 
to be loaded, what other wikis, what templates ... all the 
tiddlywiki.info-bits you wish to use that allow you to fully mix and mingle 
the content you need then, in short, you use node.js. Some of these things 
can be done with a lot of drag and drop or export import... however, 
manageability suffers.

What I tend to do, is to not have a catch-all wiki, but to split tiddlers 
into different wikis, contextually, per topic. This makes things more 
manageable, focused, I find. However, it creates the problem that the 
platform I work with, being TiddlyWiki as an application, will not be the 
same for each wiki. They may be of different versions, have different 
plugins, macros or other components like templates. So, the more of those 
you have, the more you start wishing that you could better control which 
components are available in which wiki, via inclusion so to speak or 
"bundles", I called them *swarms* once.

If there's a core or plugin update, wouldn't you just want it to be updated 
in all your wikis, not just one?

I want to be able to edit it in-browser, from anywhere, picking up from 
> where I left off.
>

This is perfectly doable in TiddlySpot (same as with store.php). You should 
not need to actually download your wiki... and I would only recommend to do 
so for backup reasons, although... both TiddlySpot and store.php handle 
backups already.
 

> I find the interaction quite clunky in that I have to download a copy, 
> edit, and then save to push back to the server.
>

In other words: you don't have to do that. You open your instance in your 
browser, enter your credentials in the control-panel and hit save.

Using multiple devices to access my TiddlyWiki means I also have to take 
> another offline copy from TiddlySpot every time I wish to edit, or 
> otherwise remember which machine I last used it on.
>

By not downloading offline copies (except for backups only) you pretty much 
eliminate this problem.

I can change the save options in the TiddlyWiki control panel so that it 
> saves in browser, but then I can't seem to download a copy for backup 
> without changing these settings once again.
>

This is barely problematic. I can imagine that you can even create a 
modified save-button that will let you save a local copy, despite the 
server settings being set. Not sure... needs testing.

Another problem is that to edit on iOS is simply too much work, but 
> sometimes I really need to get stuff out of my brain and into a tiddler, in 
> browser saving would therefore also be preferable here.
>

Same, again, simply edit online... otherwise use your favorite ios notes 
app. I love trello.

Hosting myself seemed to be the best way to get around TiddlySpot's 
> limitations (although there could be a way to work with it I've not found). 
> I can save in-browser whilst still keeping my own backups (as it would be 
> hosted on my own machine).
>

The one difference between store.php and TiddlySpot that matters is: you 
control the server (ignoring for a moment that it is perhaps rather your 
hosting provider who actually does). But that's pretty much the only 
difference. For one, you don't need to register a wiki on your server, you 
just point to the store.php and have it handle the wiki. 

I understand your main point to be that I can host my TiddlyWiki anywhere 
> just as it is, seen as it is just a HTML page; no need for a fancy server 
> deployment. May I ask though why you choose to use the node.js 
> implementation locally?
>

As said above, it allows me to slice my tidbits into reusable, includable 
batches... that I can batch-update and easily rearrange as individual 
tid-files moved around my file-system.
 

> Is it just so you can manage the wiki by individual tiddler?
>

Put it the other way around: It is so I can manage individual tiddlers, and 
only then wikis. In other words, tiddler's first. Using some version 
control system like git(hub), I get to have a version history for each 
tiddler. People can even collaborate with me on all this, via forking or 
making pull requests or simply opening issues in an issue tracker. This is 
something a standalone wiki makes quite hard, if not impossible.

Many problems you find posted around here would be far easier to respond to 
simply by actually looking at the tidbits, rather than reading prose 
describing what feels like a problem.
 

> And if so is that tiddler-centric management of the wiki the only real 
> difference between node and single page T

[tw] Re: [TW5] Create sticky notes

[Micaela]

Hi Matabele,

Thank you for your feedback. Yes I'm testing it and it seems to work fine, 
finger crossed! I liked your idea of using a field of the currentTiddler, 
but unfortunately I was not able to make it work!

Cheers,
M

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[tw] [TW5] Problem with Firefox Android and Owncloud sync

[Micaela]

Hi all,

Since I discovered TW in July I always used it with owncloud in order to 
sync it on my laptop and smartphone. I followed the guidelines for the set 
up, downloading the two plugins required, and everything worked fine until 
I updated owncloud to the latest release. Since then, the sync of my wiki 
is not working properly: the owncloud app downloads the file on my 
smartphone in a folder called *myusern...@mydomain.com%2Fowncloud*, while 
before the update it downloaded the files to a folder called 
*myusern...@mydomain.com*. 
The problem is that when I edit and save the wiki just downloaded, instead 
of being overwritten as before, the file gets duplicated into another 
folder, called *myusern...@mydomain.com* (like the old one that I used to 
have). Therefore the sync doesn’t work any more because first the file is 
downloaded into a folder, but then saved into another. 

I was wondering if you have ever seen this issue before... I'm tempted to 
say that it might be a problem with the Firefox plugin, which doesn't seem 
to like the new file path that the owncloud has decided to set up for the 
download, because all the other files on the server, once downloaded and 
edited, overwrite the current ones allowing the syncing.
I've also tried to clear the cache, uninstall and reinstall the plugins but 
no luck. But on the other side it's true that owncloud is now generating a 
new file path, and I don't know why. 
I know this is a long shot, but have you got any ideas?

Thanks in advance,
Micaela

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[tw] @giffmex - blogtool

[Mat]

In todays hangout #93 (thanks guys!) fellow David invited me to comment on 
his site/tool 
http://www.giffmex.org/experiments/river.template.html#.HQ
to use* TW as a blogging tool*.

@David - here are some thoughts intended to be constructive and help make 
the tool popular. Thus;

I like the Instructions tiddler but I miss some "preceding steps", 
specifically:

* A few introdoctory words about context/why. What specifically does your 
creation accomplish? Why would anybody need this?
* It would also be great to see an example, perhaps by providing a link to 
such a site/blog.
* How is the whole thing installed (if at all)? I.e am I supposed to 
download the whole TW and use it as a theme, or is it a plugin or am I to 
drag'n drop some special tids into my TW?

Further
*Regarding the Caveat (the last instruction), it would be great if you 
could link to someplace where this is explained, i.e why there cannot be 
search, sidebars etc. Or this could be brought up 
*For the sake of input and making it popular; It just struck me that all 
plugins (etc) should probably provide a link to a discussion thread on the 
boards where people can discuss the creation.

Ok, that's a start. Thank you David for providing this and always being 
generous with your TW stuff!

<:-)

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Re: [tw] Re: TW to learn/study node-js?

[PMario]

Hi folks, 

I didn't want to be discouraging about using TW to learn javascript. I 
wanted to show the layers, that are involved. 


On Thursday, December 10, 2015 at 9:24:25 AM UTC+1, AlexHough wrote:
>
> I was thinking about this yesterday I keep on thinking I should learn 
> javascript, but each time the motivation disappears. I just want to tinker 
> with TiddlyWikis: as Bob Dylan once sang, it levels my head and eases my 
> mind, where as learning javascript does it in.
>

If TiddlyWiki is your motivation to learn javascript, you should definitely 
do so. ... As I stumbled upon TWclassic, I had no idea about HTML, 
javascript and CSS. I'm a technician and a trainer. So I did use 
programming languages like C,  Pascal and Assambler for years. I did 
programming and training for a living. .. 

For me TiddlyWiki was interesting enough to dig into the TWc templating 
system. I saw, that I'll need html and CSS knowledge, to go deeper. So I 
did search for good web related reference resources. I found the Mozilla 
Developers Network , which I 
still use quite a lot. I did skim a good portion of the docs there, to get 
an overview, what's possible. ... And when I hit the wall with an eg: CSS 
problem, I have a closer look at the docs. ... 

I think it would be good to learn about 
> objects, functions, closures and recursions
>

Yes. I really do think so and the best way to see the possibilities of a 
programming language is with a "guided and well structured" book. I think 
"eloquent javascript" is one of those books. There is a web version, that 
covers the "js language", "js in the browser" and "js with nodejs". So I 
think its a good read, to get an overview about most of the possibilities 
that js offers at the moment. ... You should still start at the beginning. 
The additional time you spend reading it all, will pay off very fast. ... 
 

> in TW
>

If you want to. Yes. ... 

But as I wrote, it won't be the easy path, since there are playing 4 
different things together. JavaScript, HTML, CSS and TW wikitext. ... So if 
you are new to all of them, it may be a bit overwhelming. ... AND imo the 
biggest problem. If something doesn't work, there are 4 different places, 
where the error could be. So finding bugs may be frustrating from time to 
time. 
 

> Would it be fair to say that TW uses a "functional approach" to JS? 
>

I'm not sure about this question?

=

Just some more things about JS. 

For those of you, that prefer watching a video over reading books, I'll add 
some links. ... Just some. There are a lot of good talks out there.

If you want to see a relatively recent talk from the inventor himself: Brendan 
Eich  have a look here: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83_rC1FesOI

I think the Yahoo series "Crockford on JavaScript 
" is still worth 
while. I did watch them all (a little bit after they where recorded) and 
think they are still informative in terms of the language history and imo 
they are funny. They are about "the good, the bad and the new parts". ... 
The series started in 2010 and ended Nov 2011. So some views and 
predictions may be outdated today. .. So have a look for some newer talks 
too. Imo its worth it. ... In the javascript community Douglas Crockford is 
always good for controversies. 

If you want to see a discussion about the TW source code have a look at 
hangout #10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o70TtNIe-L4 .. It's a deep dive 
into TW code structure. ... A searchable list of all hangouts is here: 
http://hangouts.tiddlyspace.com/ ... If you click the top toolbar button 
"All Notes" you'll get a searchable / filtered list of many many topics. 
... 

have fun!
mario

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[tw] [TWC] To to make html into a macro

[Yang Wen-Ming]

I am trying to convert this to a macro for every tid in my tiddlywiki page. 
It seems to have trouble with any try.




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