[tw] Re: An Easy Way to Create and Modify Plugins

[Jed Carty]

That looks really useful, particularly for small bugfixes. Thanks!

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[tw] Re: An Easy Way to Create and Modify Plugins

[Greg Davis]

Wow! It looks very well thought out. About the only thing I would suggest 
might be a link to some info, like http://tiddlywiki.com/#PluginMechanism , 
for those that are new to building plugins. This will be great for a chance 
to experiment without setting up node.js. Thanks!

Greg 

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[tw] Re: An Easy Way to Create and Modify Plugins

[Mat]

@Andreas

First; thank your for this creation!

Here is some feedback:


   - I don't think the "Create New Plugin" button/content should be under 
   the tab "Installed Plugins" but instead warrants a tab of its own.
   - As someone new in the plugin packers business, I am a bit uncertain 
   what happens to my original tiddlers. It seems they are fully replaced with 
   the created plugin. This makes it difficult to make changes and I would 
   strongly prefer that the original tiddlers were left intact.
   - "*Plugin title*" appeared clear... until I read *(full "path")*. I 
   suggest using the same technique used in the standard "New Tiddler", i.e 
   add a faint gray "disappear-on-type" instruction in the text field saying 
   perhaps "*e.g $:/.../myPlugin*". (...if this, in deed, is what you mean).
   - ...further, I propose moving "*Name:*" to first position in list, then 
   "*Plugin title*" and then "*Author*". 
   - For "*Plugin type*" I would love to get a drop down menu with 
   predefined suggestions in addition to the possibility to make up a type. I 
   propose "predefined suggestions" as part of a greater "community issue" to 
   standardize denominations and terminology for the coming Federation. I'm 
   guessing this will become important then in order to find things (or am I 
   wrong?) Your whole plugin packer already does a wonderful job for creating 
   a standard for the meta data labels (e.g "Author" as opposed to "Creator", 
   "Plugin-maker" etc), not to mention the fact that your plugin encourages 
   people to actually add this data to begin with.
   - "Description"; It is not unlikely that the plugin author finds the 
   plugin to be more "obvious" than the later users. For this reason it is, 
   IMO, desirable to really encourage the author to describe it properly, and 
   the current field is IMO too small for this. (An option would perhaps be a 
   field with "*Link to documentation*" or some such.)
   - "Version"; do I understand it right that typing in "1" or "0.1" should 
   automatically be converted to "0.01"? (I made my first plugin the other day 
   and proudly tried to set it to version 1.0 but this was converted. Maybe 
   there are standards for versioning that I'm not aware of?)


Your creation is what I classify as "infrastructure for sharing" - 
extremely important for the TW project IMO. It is worth considering that 
there is, for sure, a lot of brilliant stuff created in the TiddlyVerse 
that is never shared because it is a bit of exrtra work to do so. To 
absolutely minimize this barrier must be one of the most important things 
we can do.

...This is why I, in a recent hangout, tried to propose that your plugin 
packer or similar becomes part of the standard distribution. I mistakenly 
referred to the latter as "core" which I feel confused my proposal. I 
understand people feel differently about this, but here's a thought; would 
it be possible to make your packer so that it could be included on tw.com, 
as a service *there*? I.e so that a user could e.g drag or otherwise import 
tiddlers his own tiddlers into it and get a plugin in return to drag back 
to his own TW... or even upload directly from tw.com to e.g a tiddlyspot? 

Ok, again, thank you so much for this Andreas.


<:-)

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[tw] Re: An Easy Way to Create and Modify Plugins

[Mat]

An addition to my feedback two posts up;


   - *Presumption* of how a plugin is made up and how Tinka creates one: 
   the plugin is created by copying+converting multiple tiddlers into a json 
   tiddler. At the same time, the original tiddlers are converted into being 
   shadow tiddlers.
   *Feedback*: In creating different *variants *of a plugin, which I'm just 
   trying to do, I find it would be valuable to access tiddlers that have 
   previously been converted to shadow tiddlers. (Specifically, I'm creating a 
   variant of the SideEditor and it uses all the tiddlers of the current 
   variant but also some new ones.) If possible, I would like an *option to 
   include shadow tiddlers* in the Tinka search tool. (...or is a tiddler 
   somehow critically changed as it is converted into a shadow tiddler, making 
   it unusable for plugin content?) 


   - *Observation*: When developing my plugin, I need easy access to the 
   tiddlers involved so they are not prefixed with $:/. This, however, means 
   that when the plugin is created, they are hidded (shadowed) but with these 
   titles... which makes them "odd" in the shadow list and, more unfortunate, 
   they get placed (alphasorted) to the very bottom of the listing. If someone 
   is looking around for where these tiddlers are hiding, then being at the 
   very bottom of a long list is of course not good.
   *Feedback*: I'm not certain it's a "Tinka issue" as much as a workflow 
   issue, but I would like to use common titles during development but have 
*prefixes 
   $:/ added* as they are converted into shadow tiddlers. Maybe this is 
   something Tinka could offer? 


Again, thank you for this Andreas. Very valuable!

<:-)


On Thursday, June 4, 2015 at 9:12:54 AM UTC+2, Mat wrote:
>
> @Andreas
>
> First; thank your for this creation!
>
> Here is some feedback:
>
>
>- I don't think the "Create New Plugin" button/content should be under 
>the tab "Installed Plugins" but instead warrants a tab of its own.
>- As someone new in the plugin packers business, I am a bit uncertain 
>what happens to my original tiddlers. It seems they are fully replaced 
> with 
>the created plugin. This makes it difficult to make changes and I would 
>strongly prefer that the original tiddlers were left intact.
>- "*Plugin title*" appeared clear... until I read *(full "path")*. I 
>suggest using the same technique used in the standard "New Tiddler", i.e 
>add a faint gray "disappear-on-type" instruction in the text field saying 
>perhaps "*e.g $:/.../myPlugin*". (...if this, in deed, is what you 
>mean).
>- ...further, I propose moving "*Name:*" to first position in list, 
>then "*Plugin title*" and then "*Author*". 
>- For "*Plugin type*" I would love to get a drop down menu with 
>predefined suggestions in addition to the possibility to make up a type. I 
>propose "predefined suggestions" as part of a greater "community issue" to 
>standardize denominations and terminology for the coming Federation. I'm 
>guessing this will become important then in order to find things (or am I 
>wrong?) Your whole plugin packer already does a wonderful job for creating 
>a standard for the meta data labels (e.g "Author" as opposed to "Creator", 
>"Plugin-maker" etc), not to mention the fact that your plugin encourages 
>people to actually add this data to begin with.
>- "Description"; It is not unlikely that the plugin author finds the 
>plugin to be more "obvious" than the later users. For this reason it is, 
>IMO, desirable to really encourage the author to describe it properly, and 
>the current field is IMO too small for this. (An option would perhaps be a 
>field with "*Link to documentation*" or some such.)
>- "Version"; do I understand it right that typing in "1" or "0.1" 
>should automatically be converted to "0.01"? (I made my first plugin the 
>other day and proudly tried to set it to version 1.0 but this was 
>converted. Maybe there are standards for versioning that I'm not aware of?)
>
>
> Your creation is what I classify as "infrastructure for sharing" - 
> extremely important for the TW project IMO. It is worth considering that 
> there is, for sure, a lot of brilliant stuff created in the TiddlyVerse 
> that is never shared because it is a bit of exrtra work to do so. To 
> absolutely minimize this barrier must be one of the most important things 
> we can do.
>
> ...This is why I, in a recent hangout, tried to propose that your plugin 
> packer or similar becomes part of the standard distribution. I mistakenly 
> referred to the latter as "core" which I feel confused my proposal. I 
> understand people feel differently about this, but here's a thought; would 
> it be possible to make your packer so that it could be included on tw.com, 
> as a service *there*? I.e so that a user could e.g drag or otherwise 
> import tiddlers his own tiddlers i

Re: [tw] Re: An Easy Way to Create and Modify Plugins

[Andreas Hahn]

Hi Greg and Jed,

thanks for the feedback. I added some documentation which mainly 
consists of pointers to the official documentation for further 
information about plugins and filters (as suggested).

Furthermore, I changed the following things:

* The list of plugin tiddlers is now hidden by default, since some lists 
can get very long.

* Added a different search option (default/filter)
* Improved Documentation slightly
* Added a backup option, so a plugin can be backed up before repackaging 
to avoid data loss.


Especially the option to use the "default" search lowers the entry 
barrier to the plugin, I think.

The new version is, again, available at: http://twguides.org/wiki/tinka.html

/Andreas

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Re: [tw] Re: An Easy Way to Create and Modify Plugins

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Andreas

That's a really nice piece of work, congratulations. It looks great too.

Seeing it reminds me that I'd like to try to make it a goal for 5.1.9 to
get third party plugins such as this listed in the plugin library. I'll
open a ticket for discussion about how we might do that.

Best wishes

Jeremy.



On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 12:05 PM, Andreas Hahn 
wrote:

> Hi Greg and Jed,
>
> thanks for the feedback. I added some documentation which mainly consists
> of pointers to the official documentation for further information about
> plugins and filters (as suggested).
> Furthermore, I changed the following things:
>
> * The list of plugin tiddlers is now hidden by default, since some lists
> can get very long.
> * Added a different search option (default/filter)
> * Improved Documentation slightly
> * Added a backup option, so a plugin can be backed up before repackaging
> to avoid data loss.
>
> Especially the option to use the "default" search lowers the entry barrier
> to the plugin, I think.
> The new version is, again, available at:
> http://twguides.org/wiki/tinka.html
>
> /Andreas
>
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>
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>



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Re: [tw] Re: An Easy Way to Create and Modify Plugins

['Andreas Hahn' via TiddlyWiki]

Hi Mat,

thank you very much for your feedback, you raise some important points 
and a new Tinka version with quite a few changes is already in the making.

Here are my thoughts:


  * I don't think the "Create New Plugin" button/content should be
under the tab "Installed Plugins" but instead warrants a tab
of its own.

Yes, you are correct, it feels better to put it there, so this will be 
changed in the next version.




  * As someone new in the plugin packers business, I am a bit
uncertain what happens to my original tiddlers. It seems they
are fully replaced with the created plugin. This makes it
difficult to make changes and I would strongly prefer that the
original tiddlers were left intact.


  * *Presumption* of how a plugin is made up and how Tinka creates
one: the plugin is created by copying+converting multiple tiddlers
into a json tiddler. At the same time, the original tiddlers are
converted into being shadow tiddlers.
*Feedback*: In creating different /variants /of a plugin, which
I'm just trying to do, I find it would be valuable to access
tiddlers that have previously been converted to shadow tiddlers.
(Specifically, I'm creating a variant of the SideEditor and it
uses all the tiddlers of the current variant but also some new
ones.) If possible, I would like an *option to include shadow
tiddlers* in the Tinka search tool. (...or is a tiddler somehow
critically changed as it is converted into a shadow tiddler,
making it unusable for plugin content?)

*Observation*: When developing my plugin, I need easy access to the 
tiddlers involved so they are not prefixed with $:/. This, however, 
means that when the plugin is created, they are hidded (shadowed) but 
with these titles... which makes them "odd" in the shadow list and, 
more unfortunate, they get placed (alphasorted) to the very bottom of 
the listing. If someone is looking around for where these tiddlers are 
hiding, then being at the very bottom of a long list is of course not 
good.
*Feedback*: I'm not certain it's a "Tinka issue" as much as a workflow 
issue, but I would like to use common titles during development but 
have *prefixes $:/ added* as they are converted into shadow tiddlers. 
Maybe this is something Tinka could offer? 



This is partly due to the way plugins work, namely the tiddlers 
belonging to this plugin are stuffed into a JSON tiddler and become 
shadows. Also I am afraid that I would like to do it this way, as 
ideally the tiddlers in the plugin are the ones that get executed on 
loading, as this is necessary to test if the plugin is working. Copying 
those tiddlers and having them both as shadows and as normal tiddlers 
may cause all kinds of problems.


The general philosophy is that all the tiddlers belonging to the plugin 
should be shadow tiddlers, except when you are in the middle of making 
changes, in which case a selected few are overwritten by normal 
tiddlers. Also, you can get a list of all the tiddlers in the plugin by 
just clicking on the plugin name in either the Tinka tab or the normal 
Plugin tab in the Control Panel.


I do however agree with you, that it can be cumbersome to navigate to 
the tiddlers. For that, I would like to add something like an edit-mode, 
where a new tab is attached to the sidebar that displays all the 
relevant tiddlers for the plugin for easy access.


The variants is something I did not think about when I removed the 
capability of the "default" search to search for shadows. I will have to 
think about this one and maybe add a third tab to the searches that 
enable a search for shadow tiddlers. For now however, the mechanics to 
create variants is via the backup functionality:


- You create your plugin
- Then you back it up
- Make the changes to create a new variant
- Pack the changes into the plugin, maybe add something to the version 
to mark is as a variant (e.g. "0.0.2-variantA")
- Repeat for all the variants. If you want to make one active again, 
simply restore it via the Backup-tab, the currently active one will be 
backed up by default (if not already)


This way you will also only have 1 variant active at any given time 
(which sounds like a good idea).


As for the creation ($:/-prefix) process: Since plugin tiddlers can have 
interdependencies (and these are usually by title), it can get very 
difficult to near impossible to implement a mechanic that changes the 
tiddlers titles automatically while keeping all the links intact. 
Therefore, when making a plugin, the tiddler titles pretty much have to 
be the final titles. Again the above mentioned "edit-mode" with the 
sidebar tab might make this process easier.



  * "/Plugin title/" appeared clear... until I read /(full
"path")/. I suggest using the same technique used in the
standard "New Tiddler", i.e add a faint gray
"disappear-on-type" instruction in the text field sayi

Re: [tw] Re: An Easy Way to Create and Modify Plugins

[Mat]

Andreas,


I apologize that this answer became very lengthy,...


On the contrary, I really appreciate you taking the time to go through my 
feedback.


New little discovery; There is a state tiddler missing a colon 
- $/state/popup/tinka-create


Having now gone through the process again (for SideEditor ver 0.2) I must 
restate that I do still find the naming issue a big problem. If I prefix 
with "$:/" they hide during development, but if I intend to change it later 
then I must also change any references to these titles. And if I don't 
prefix them, then they look odd in the shadow lists and I also realized 
that tiddlers that become overwritten (such as the tiddler holding the 
temporary position values in SideEditor), then these show up in the regular 
tiddler lists... so those I must prefix. Not a Tinka issue, but just maybe 
tiddlers should be possible to shadow from tagging?


Another issue;

I didn't want the Tinka plugin installed on the SideEditor tiddlyspot so 
deleted the plugin. However, this still leaves all the shadow tiddlers. I'm 
guessing this is not due to Tinka itself. Maybe I just don't know how to 
uninstall a plugin... and this is where it just might be a Tinka issue; In 
using Tinka it is not unlikely that people create a plugin that they wish 
to re-make ("oh, I forgot to include tiddler X", "ah, I should have updated 
tiddly Y before I packaged", etc). For this reason, it would be valuable 
with a "complete plugin delete" feature in Tinka that deletes the plugin 
and the shadow tiddlers. Maybe user could get a checkbox list for which 
tiddlers to delete (+a "select all" button). 


I do however agree with you, that it can be cumbersome to navigate to the 
> tiddlers. For that, I would like to add something like an edit-mode, where 
> a new tab is attached to the sidebar that displays all the relevant 
> tiddlers for the plugin for easy access.
>

To the sidebar? You mean that pops up only when you're in the Tinka 
Controlpanel tab then? (a bit like the Sidebar Search tab 
 idea?)


TiddlyWiki seems to only accept version-numbers in this format:  
> N.N.N-X  
>

For the latest version, I tried putting in "0.2.0" and it was converted 
into "0.2.1" which I manually had to change in the resulting plugin 
after... 


<:-) 

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Re: [tw] Re: An Easy Way to Create and Modify Plugins

[Jeremy Ruston]

> TiddlyWiki seems to only accept version-numbers in this format:
 N.N.N-X

TW5 uses "semantic versioning" 2.0 - it's a specific set of rules governing
version numbers:

http://semver.org

Best wishes

Jeremy.


On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Mat  wrote:

> Andreas,
>
>
> I apologize that this answer became very lengthy,...
>
>
> On the contrary, I really appreciate you taking the time to go through my
> feedback.
>
>
> New little discovery; There is a state tiddler missing a colon
> - $/state/popup/tinka-create
>
>
> Having now gone through the process again (for SideEditor ver 0.2) I must
> restate that I do still find the naming issue a big problem. If I prefix
> with "$:/" they hide during development, but if I intend to change it later
> then I must also change any references to these titles. And if I don't
> prefix them, then they look odd in the shadow lists and I also realized
> that tiddlers that become overwritten (such as the tiddler holding the
> temporary position values in SideEditor), then these show up in the regular
> tiddler lists... so those I must prefix. Not a Tinka issue, but just maybe
> tiddlers should be possible to shadow from tagging?
>
>
> Another issue;
>
> I didn't want the Tinka plugin installed on the SideEditor tiddlyspot so
> deleted the plugin. However, this still leaves all the shadow tiddlers. I'm
> guessing this is not due to Tinka itself. Maybe I just don't know how to
> uninstall a plugin... and this is where it just might be a Tinka issue; In
> using Tinka it is not unlikely that people create a plugin that they wish
> to re-make ("oh, I forgot to include tiddler X", "ah, I should have updated
> tiddly Y before I packaged", etc). For this reason, it would be valuable
> with a "complete plugin delete" feature in Tinka that deletes the plugin
> and the shadow tiddlers. Maybe user could get a checkbox list for which
> tiddlers to delete (+a "select all" button).
>
>
> I do however agree with you, that it can be cumbersome to navigate to the
>> tiddlers. For that, I would like to add something like an edit-mode, where
>> a new tab is attached to the sidebar that displays all the relevant
>> tiddlers for the plugin for easy access.
>>
>
> To the sidebar? You mean that pops up only when you're in the Tinka
> Controlpanel tab then? (a bit like the Sidebar Search tab
>  idea?)
>
>
> TiddlyWiki seems to only accept version-numbers in this format:
>> N.N.N-X
>>
>
> For the latest version, I tried putting in "0.2.0" and it was converted
> into "0.2.1" which I manually had to change in the resulting plugin
> after...
>
>
> <:-)
>
> --
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> .
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Re: [tw] Re: An Easy Way to Create and Modify Plugins

['Andreas Hahn' via TiddlyWiki]

Hi Mat,

New little discovery; There is a state tiddler missing a colon 
- $/state/popup/tinka-create

Whoops, I never noticed that, thank you !

Maybe user could get a checkbox list for which tiddlers to delete (+a 
"select all" button).
If I am not mistaken Tinka already has a remove feature to remove 
individual tiddlers from a plugin (there is no select all button 
though). If you want to delete the entire plugin, there is no reason to 
use Tinka, just open the plugin tiddler by clicking on its name and 
delete it like any other tiddler.


To the sidebar? You mean that pops up only when you're in the Tinka 
Controlpanel tab then? (a bit like the Sidebar Search tab 
 idea?)
Possibly, although I was thinking more along the lines of a checkbox for 
each plugin, that enables the tab.


For the latest version, I tried putting in "0.2.0" and it was 
converted into "0.2.1" which I manually had to change in the resulting 
plugin after...
TiddlyWiki increases the version number after each (re-)packaging 
process. Therefore I tend not to care about the last version number, as 
it only serves as a number to distinguish the different packaging 
operations. Before release then, I set the version number to the number 
I want (you can edit the metadata of a plugin without needing to repackage).



Also thanks @Jeremy for the link, things make more sense now =).

/Andreas

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Re: [tw] Re: An Easy Way to Create and Modify Plugins

[Mat]

Dear Andreas

do you think you could put up Tinka on github? It would be much easier to 
post issues which in turn would provide a great overview of stuff AND it 
would enable others to make pull requests.

Thanks. 

<:-)

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