Re: [tw] Re: Done Close and Cancel Close toolbar options

[Mat]

Thomas, this is already bringing value in my tiddly fiddling. Thank you!

<:-)

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Re: [tw] Re: Done Close and Cancel Close toolbar options

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Thomas

Thomas Elmiger wrote:
>
> BTW, the buttons are available as a plugin *EditButtons* now: 
> https://tid.li/tw5/plugins.html.
>

I love how you often polish your stuff into THE FULL MONTY 
 ---rather than 
leaving it as a half-done suggestion.

This one--letting you save a tiddler and immediately close it--simple as it 
is, is *really, really useful* IMO.

Kudos to you!
Josiah

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Re: [tw] Re: Done Close and Cancel Close toolbar options

[Thomas Elmiger]

Hi all,

BTW, the buttons are available as a plugin *EditButtons* now:
https://tid.li/tw5/plugins.html.

BTW, it was NOT a good a idea to say its a "plugin" before it is one. That
> will cause you hassle as people look for the plugin not yet created. Lol.
> :-)
>

In my eyes it should be near to core quality so I hope this works for you.

Cheers,
Thomas

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Re: [tw] Re: Done Close and Cancel Close toolbar options

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao all

I'm really struck at what this simple extension enables.

*I'm bemused why it was never done before.*

IMO it supports a "model" of working where the editor can be used to create 
FOR a purpose more precisely.

Its gets away from the, I think, rather stupid idea, of the "random" story 
view where anything you created or edited ended up in the stream as a 
matter of course. That never made any sense to me. I was forever clicking 
"close" after edit.

This approach is maybe what the DEFAULT should have been.

Thoughts in a tetchy mood.

But, still, best wishes
Josiah

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Re: [tw] Re: Done Close and Cancel Close toolbar options

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Thomas, still in Mittwoch,

FURTHER to last, looking at the current lingo on saving ... it reads very 
NEUTRAL ... "Confirm changes on this tiddler" ... that is fine ... so what 
about "*Close this tiddler & save changes.*"

BTW, it was NOT a good a idea to say its a "plugin" before it is one. That 
will cause you hassle as people look for the plugin not yet created. Lol. 
:-) 

Josiah, x

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Re: [tw] Re: Done Close and Cancel Close toolbar options

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Thomas on Mittwoch,

A small, contentious issue perhaps is the wording. I have an opinion on 
this ... 

*I see what you developed as just "Save & Close". Full Stop. Done.*

The complications of the lexicon of "Done & Close So Long As You Are 
Running TiddlyFox"--which is the underlying semantic--is a different thing 
& it messes up simplicity by surrogate phrasing that way. It weakens the 
immediate relevance of what the button does.   

Lets NOT blur up basic EDITING ACTIONS with "HAVE I GOT THIS THING WORKING 
YET?" ... 

You get my point?

Best wishes
Josiah

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Re: [tw] Re: Done Close and Cancel Close toolbar options

[Thomas Elmiger]

Hi Tony

There is no plugin yet, you will have to import 4 tiddlers atm. Maybe it 
can become a plugin later. 

I did not change any standard behaviour of any kind, basically I copied the 
existing buttons, added the command to close the tiddler in the storyriver 
and an icon variant.

Good luck!
-t

Am Mittwoch, 13. September 2017 02:10:55 UTC+2 schrieb TonyM:
>
> I am not sure if you have addressed this or not,
>
> A quick comment from my perspective Done/Close and Cancel/Close are 
> operations we do on a tiddler, of course when we click the Tic we expect it 
> to save the tiddler, and cancel to not save the changes we just made. The 
> Auto-save feature should in my view remain separate and distinct. Of course 
> done/close can trigger the wikisave but we must be able to turn off the 
> save of the tiddlywiki for large wikis or slow remote hosted wikis.
>

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Re: [tw] Re: Done Close and Cancel Close toolbar options

[TonyM]

Thomas,

I am not sure if you have addressed this or not,

A quick comment from my perspective Done/Close and Cancel/Close are 
operations we do on a tiddler, of course when we click the Tic we expect it 
to save the tiddler, and cancel to not save the changes we just made. The 
Auto-save feature should in my view remain separate and distinct. Of course 
done/close can trigger the wikisave but we must be able to turn off the 
save of the tiddlywiki for large wikis or slow remote hosted wikis.

Surprisingly large wikis can be practical as long as autosave can be 
stopped.

I will test your plugin soon, thanks

Tony

On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 8:48:55 PM UTC+10, Thomas Elmiger wrote:
>
> Hi folks, 
>
> Good things first: Both buttons are working now and you can download all 4 
> components of the prototypes from the link I posted before :–)
>
> Not that good: I am a bit confused again about how to name the 
> Done/Save-and-close button. 
>
> Existing parts for similar functionality (without the closing) operate 
> with the following terms: 
>
> Hint: Confirm changes to this tiddler
> Button: save
> Image: done
> Caption: ok
>
> As stated before: Clicking the Done/Save button in my eyes saves the 
> tiddler. Technically it deletes the prior version from TW internal memory 
> and saves the new/updated version instead. And it triggers an autosave 
> operation if you have TiddlyFox installed as I have. 
> So «save» seems to reflect the user expectation after clicking on edit and 
> applying changes, then you would want to save your work, wouldn’t you? 
> Maybe you are just done or one is as good as the other?
>
> On the other hand under certain conditions your wiki might not be saved 
> and users are not as safe as they would like to be until they save/download 
> their whole wiki – then «done» or «confirm» would be more precise. 
>
> As a new caption I thought about ”Confirm changes and close this tiddler". 
> That seems consistent with existing wording to me.
>
> What do you think? 
>
> Stay safe 
> Thomas 
>
> Mat, I should have called it "Done and close". 
>> My own TW is saved by Tiddlyfox when I am done … so the name seemed 
>> logical to me. Thank you for pointing out the difference! 
>> -t
>>
> -- 
> --
>
> Thomas Elmiger
> Lorenwäldlistrasse 34
> 8630 Rüti ZH
>
>

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Re: [tw] Re: Done Close and Cancel Close toolbar options

[Mat]

Thomas, thank you very much for this. I will use them!!!

Not that good: I am a bit confused again about how to name the 
> Done/Save-and-close button. 
>

IMO they should stay as close to the native non-closing versions as 
possible. The main reason is for when showing the button text instead of 
the icon. (That said, I do agree that the instinctive term is to "save a 
tiddler".)
 
BTW a nitpick:
It would be better if the icons kept the same dimensions as the other 
buttons. I did this little experiment and think it looks pretty good thanks 
to your idea to use both gray and black. IMO the X's are visible enough to 
instantly differentiate them from their non-closing variants.

<:-)


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Re: [tw] Re: Done Close and Cancel Close toolbar options

[Thomas Elmiger]

Here is the link again, the thread is already longer than I thought:

You might be interested in the (itermediate) result of my latest hack ;–)

https://tid.li/tw5/hacks.html#Save%20and%20close%20Button%20Plugin

-t

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Re: [tw] Re: Done Close and Cancel Close toolbar options

[Thomas Elmiger]

Hi folks,

Good things first: Both buttons are working now and you can download all 4
components of the prototypes from the link I posted before :–)

Not that good: I am a bit confused again about how to name the
Done/Save-and-close button.

Existing parts for similar functionality (without the closing) operate with
the following terms:

Hint: Confirm changes to this tiddler
Button: save
Image: done
Caption: ok

As stated before: Clicking the Done/Save button in my eyes saves the
tiddler. Technically it deletes the prior version from TW internal memory
and saves the new/updated version instead. And it triggers an autosave
operation if you have TiddlyFox installed as I have.
So «save» seems to reflect the user expectation after clicking on edit and
applying changes, then you would want to save your work, wouldn’t you?
Maybe you are just done or one is as good as the other?

On the other hand under certain conditions your wiki might not be saved and
users are not as safe as they would like to be until they save/download
their whole wiki – then «done» or «confirm» would be more precise.

As a new caption I thought about ”Confirm changes and close this tiddler".
That seems consistent with existing wording to me.

What do you think?

Stay safe
Thomas

Mat, I should have called it "Done and close".
> My own TW is saved by Tiddlyfox when I am done … so the name seemed
> logical to me. Thank you for pointing out the difference!
> -t
>
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Re: [tw] Re: Done Close and Cancel Close toolbar options

[Thomas Elmiger]

Mat, I should have called it "Done and close".
My own TW is saved by Tiddlyfox when I am done … so the name seemed logical
to me. Thank you for pointing out the difference!
-t

Mat  schrieb am Sa. 9. Sep. 2017 um 15:29:

>
> @Thomas, I can only see/test one of your hacks there. And you have titled
> them "Save and close" and "Done and close".  but I'm wondering if you
> really mean "Done and close" and "*Cancel* and close" as in the OP. Or
> maybe you really do mean "Save [the TW] and close [tiddler]"?
>
> <:-)
>
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[tw] Re: Done Close and Cancel Close toolbar options

[Mat]

In deed, I would very much 
 
like DoneClose and CancelClose. They were *very *useful in TWC.


@Thomas, I can only see/test one of your hacks there. And you have titled 
them "Save and close" and "Done and close".  but I'm wondering if you 
really mean "Done and close" and "*Cancel* and close" as in the OP. Or 
maybe you really do mean "Save [the TW] and close [tiddler]"?

<:-)

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Re: [tw] Re: Done Close and Cancel Close toolbar options

[Thomas Elmiger]

Obviously not.

@TiddlyTweeter  schrieb am Di. 5. Sep. 2017 um
19:12:

> I have a very, very small mind.
>
> Am I excluded?
>
>
> Thomas Elmiger wrote:
>>
>> Only great minds in this group, Tony, only great minds :–)
>
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[tw] Re: Done Close and Cancel Close toolbar options

[@TiddlyTweeter]

I have a very, very small mind.

Am I excluded?

Thomas Elmiger wrote:
>
> Only great minds in this group, Tony, only great minds :–) 

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[tw] Re: Done Close and Cancel Close toolbar options

[Thomas Elmiger]

Only great minds in this group, Tony, only great minds :–)

The color can be adjusted via CSS fill attribute:


.tc-image-done-button {
 fill:red;
}


Maybe you will have to add your own class or a span with an additional class to 
get the desired result. 

Good luck!

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[tw] Re: Done Close and Cancel Close toolbar options

[TonyM]

Ha Ha, Thomas,


Great minds think alike or is it fools never differ?



I am still trying to find out how to color them, and do not know how to 
close the original tiddler.

PS I would simply adopt your plugin however I am 90% of the way to making 
my own with the above two issues. I will see if I can harvest the answers 
from yours.

Argggh

Tony



On Tuesday, September 5, 2017 at 8:57:42 PM UTC+10, Thomas Elmiger wrote:
>
> Hi Tony
>
> You might be interested in the (itermediate) result of my latest hack ;–)
>
> See: https://tid.li/tw5/hacks.html#Save%20and%20close%20Button%20Plugin
>
> All comments I have are there. Sorry, I am in a hurry.
>
> Good luck!
> Thomas
>
> Am Dienstag, 5. September 2017 09:44:46 UTC+2 schrieb TonyM:
>>
>> Post Script,
>>
>> I would also like to toggle On/Off the Dialogue that asks "Do you wish to 
>> discard changes to the tiddler "
>>
>> After all I will only loose the changes to this tiddler
>>
>> Regards
>> Tony
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 5, 2017 at 5:36:17 PM UTC+10, TonyM wrote:
>>>
>>> Folks,
>>>
>>> Here is my steps to answering my own question. On the Cancel Close 
>>> Button, see below for the last piece of the Puzzle I do not have.
>>>
>>>
>>>- Clone $:/core/ui/Buttons/cancel
>>>   - Rename to $:/core/ui/Buttons/cancelclose
>>>- Clone $:/language/Buttons/Cancel/Hint to 
>>>$:/language/Buttons/CancelClose/Hint
>>>   - change content to "Discard and close this tiddler"
>>>- Clone $:/language/Buttons/Cancel/Caption to 
>>>$:/language/Buttons/CancelClose/Caption
>>>   - change content to "cancel/close"
>>>- Edit $:/core/ui/Buttons/cancelclose
>>>   - Rename the Cancel/hint and Cancel/Caption to CancelClose/hint 
>>>   and CancelClose/Caption respectively
>>>   - Place {{$:/core/images/close-button}} after 1st 
>>>   {{$:/core/images/cancel-button}}
>>>  - Looks OK especially when using ControlPanel > Settings > 
>>>  Toolbar Button Style > Boxed but you could replace with another 
>>> button Icon
>>>   - add <$action-sendmessage $message="tm-close-tiddler"/> before 
>>>   last 
>>>
>>> This "Works" on the Draft Of Tiddler name but the original tiddler 
>>> remains open, how do I also Close the Original tiddler?
>>>
>>>
>>> I can publish this as a plugin (with better Icons) once working, and if 
>>> not already available but It would be a nice option in the "Core" with 
>>> little effort.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance
>>>
>>> Tony
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

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[tw] Re: Done Close and Cancel Close toolbar options

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Thomas

Excellent. Not least the icon. This makes what I'm already using--the great 
initial RichardWS version--into an even better version.

I hadn't really grasped the caveats on where it can't work. I just got 
confused. Hats off to you so I don't have to encounter that confusion.

Josiah, x

Thomas Elmiger wrote:
>
> You might be interested in the (itermediate) result of my latest hack ;–)
>
> See: https://tid.li/tw5/hacks.html#Save%20and%20close%20Button%20Plugin
>

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[tw] Re: Done Close and Cancel Close toolbar options

[Thomas Elmiger]

Hi Tony

You might be interested in the (itermediate) result of my latest hack ;–)

See: https://tid.li/tw5/hacks.html#Save%20and%20close%20Button%20Plugin

All comments I have are there. Sorry, I am in a hurry.

Good luck!
Thomas

Am Dienstag, 5. September 2017 09:44:46 UTC+2 schrieb TonyM:
>
> Post Script,
>
> I would also like to toggle On/Off the Dialogue that asks "Do you wish to 
> discard changes to the tiddler "
>
> After all I will only loose the changes to this tiddler
>
> Regards
> Tony
>
> On Tuesday, September 5, 2017 at 5:36:17 PM UTC+10, TonyM wrote:
>>
>> Folks,
>>
>> Here is my steps to answering my own question. On the Cancel Close 
>> Button, see below for the last piece of the Puzzle I do not have.
>>
>>
>>- Clone $:/core/ui/Buttons/cancel
>>   - Rename to $:/core/ui/Buttons/cancelclose
>>- Clone $:/language/Buttons/Cancel/Hint to 
>>$:/language/Buttons/CancelClose/Hint
>>   - change content to "Discard and close this tiddler"
>>- Clone $:/language/Buttons/Cancel/Caption to 
>>$:/language/Buttons/CancelClose/Caption
>>   - change content to "cancel/close"
>>- Edit $:/core/ui/Buttons/cancelclose
>>   - Rename the Cancel/hint and Cancel/Caption to CancelClose/hint 
>>   and CancelClose/Caption respectively
>>   - Place {{$:/core/images/close-button}} after 1st 
>>   {{$:/core/images/cancel-button}}
>>  - Looks OK especially when using ControlPanel > Settings > 
>>  Toolbar Button Style > Boxed but you could replace with another 
>> button Icon
>>   - add <$action-sendmessage $message="tm-close-tiddler"/> before 
>>   last 
>>
>> This "Works" on the Draft Of Tiddler name but the original tiddler 
>> remains open, how do I also Close the Original tiddler?
>>
>>
>> I can publish this as a plugin (with better Icons) once working, and if 
>> not already available but It would be a nice option in the "Core" with 
>> little effort.
>>
>>
>> Thanks in advance
>>
>> Tony
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

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[tw] Re: Done Close and Cancel Close toolbar options

[TonyM]

Post Script,

I would also like to toggle On/Off the Dialogue that asks "Do you wish to 
discard changes to the tiddler "

After all I will only loose the changes to this tiddler

Regards
Tony

On Tuesday, September 5, 2017 at 5:36:17 PM UTC+10, TonyM wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> Here is my steps to answering my own question. On the Cancel Close Button, 
> see below for the last piece of the Puzzle I do not have.
>
>
>- Clone $:/core/ui/Buttons/cancel
>   - Rename to $:/core/ui/Buttons/cancelclose
>- Clone $:/language/Buttons/Cancel/Hint to 
>$:/language/Buttons/CancelClose/Hint
>   - change content to "Discard and close this tiddler"
>- Clone $:/language/Buttons/Cancel/Caption to 
>$:/language/Buttons/CancelClose/Caption
>   - change content to "cancel/close"
>- Edit $:/core/ui/Buttons/cancelclose
>   - Rename the Cancel/hint and Cancel/Caption to CancelClose/hint and 
>   CancelClose/Caption respectively
>   - Place {{$:/core/images/close-button}} after 1st 
>   {{$:/core/images/cancel-button}}
>  - Looks OK especially when using ControlPanel > Settings > 
>  Toolbar Button Style > Boxed but you could replace with another 
> button Icon
>   - add <$action-sendmessage $message="tm-close-tiddler"/> before 
>   last 
>
> This "Works" on the Draft Of Tiddler name but the original tiddler remains 
> open, how do I also Close the Original tiddler?
>
>
> I can publish this as a plugin (with better Icons) once working, and if 
> not already available but It would be a nice option in the "Core" with 
> little effort.
>
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Tony
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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[tw] Re: Done Close and Cancel Close toolbar options

[TonyM]

Folks,

Here is my steps to answering my own question. On the Cancel Close Button, 
see below for the last piece of the Puzzle I do not have.


   - Clone $:/core/ui/Buttons/cancel
  - Rename to $:/core/ui/Buttons/cancelclose
   - Clone $:/language/Buttons/Cancel/Hint to 
   $:/language/Buttons/CancelClose/Hint
  - change content to "Discard and close this tiddler"
   - Clone $:/language/Buttons/Cancel/Caption to 
   $:/language/Buttons/CancelClose/Caption
  - change content to "cancel/close"
   - Edit $:/core/ui/Buttons/cancelclose
  - Rename the Cancel/hint and Cancel/Caption to CancelClose/hint and 
  CancelClose/Caption respectively
  - Place {{$:/core/images/close-button}} after 1st 
  {{$:/core/images/cancel-button}}
 - Looks OK especially when using ControlPanel > Settings > Toolbar 
 Button Style > Boxed but you could replace with another button Icon
  - add <$action-sendmessage $message="tm-close-tiddler"/> before last 
  
   
This "Works" on the Draft Of Tiddler name but the original tiddler remains 
open, how do I also Close the Original tiddler?


I can publish this as a plugin (with better Icons) once working, and if not 
already available but It would be a nice option in the "Core" with little 
effort.


Thanks in advance

Tony






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