[tw5] Re: A TiddlyWiki "GraphViz Server" (?)

[Charlie Veniot]

It would seem that the GraphViz plugin only supports the "dot" layout 
engine.

Any graph specified with a layout engine 
 other than dot will not be rendered by 
the GraphViz plugin?

Too bad, but I don't think that's a deal breaker.



On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 12:28:54 AM UTC-3 Charlie Veniot wrote:

> Duh.
>
> If you just want to click and view diagrams ...
>
> What I'm suddenly finding quite neat: I can have a private TiddlyWiki 
> generate these URL's, and the graphs are displayed by the public GraphViz 
> uTWility.
>
> Graphviz Gallery 
>
> Bazel Build System 
> 
> Data Structures 
> 

[tw5] Re: A TiddlyWiki "GraphViz Server" (?)

[Charlie Veniot]

Duh.

If you just want to click and view diagrams ...

What I'm suddenly finding quite neat: I can have a private TiddlyWiki 
generate these URL's, and the graphs are displayed by the public GraphViz 
uTWility.

Graphviz Gallery 

Bazel Build System 

Data Structures 

[tw5] Re: A TiddlyWiki "GraphViz Server" (?)

[Charlie Veniot]

Trying out all of the examples in the Graphviz Gallery 


Although the Graphviz uTWility is unable to render many of them (I've got a 
bug somewhere I need to fix), there are still some interesting ones that 
work out of the box.

The bug: although it could be a bug/incompatibility/??? issue with the 
GraphViz plugin, I really suspect there are some characters tripping up 
generation of a proper URL for the GraphViz uTWility.

I'll be rolling up my sleeves and investigating later.

For now, if you are interested in trying out the new examples, download the 
attached, and drag into any TiddlyWiki instance for import.

Open the "Sample Graphs" tiddler and click away.


On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 6:34:49 PM UTC-3 Charlie Veniot wrote:

> BTW, adding the GraphViz plugin to a TiddlyWiki instance increases the 
> size of that TiddlyWiki instance by 1.1 MB
>
> Adding that to one TiddlyWiki instance is a problem if you only view 
> graphs occasionally, and is a significant problem if you are opening and 
> saving edits to that TiddlyWiki many times in a session.  Every open and 
> every save has that 1.1 MB overhead.
>
> Even more so a problem if you need occasional graphing in many TiddlyWiki 
> instances.
>
> However, if a TiddlyWiki instance relies heavily on displaying graphs 
> everywhere, then much better to include the GraphViz plugin in that 
> TiddlyWiki instance so that it is not loading a GraphViz uTWility (i.e. a 
> whole TiddlyWiki and GraphViz plugin) for every single graph displayed in 
> that TiddlyWiki.
>
> For my use case, I prefer my TiddlyWiki's showing graph links to click on 
> when I want to view a graph.  Embedding in an iframe like above, I'd be 
> careful with that to make sure the host tiddler only pops up in the story 
> river (or anywhere) when I want the graph displayed.
>
> All kinds of design considerations no matter what ...
>
> On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 6:24:20 PM UTC-3 Charlie Veniot wrote:
>
>> All of my TiddlWiki instances are single file.
>>
>> Yup, any local TiddlyWiki can show any other local TiddlWiki in an iframe 
>> or open it in another browser window/tab via a link.
>>
>> In the screenshot below, I have a local copy (older version) of the 
>> GraphViz uTWility on a local drive, and another TiddlyWiki showing the 
>> GraphViz uTWility in an iframe, embedding a graph specification in the URL 
>> so see that graph in the iframe.
>>
>> [image: Screenshot 2023-03-18 6.18.44 PM.png]
>>
>> On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 5:57:36 PM UTC-3 scott@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> > The problem with an online GraphViz server: you have to be online and 
>>> > have access to a server.
>>>
>>> Oh, do your wikis have access to one another when offline?  I don't have
>>> anything set up like that.  I run them either as single-file wikis or in
>>> standalone Node processes.  But this makes sense in that case.  I am 
>>> going
>>> to raise an issue regarding a possible https://kroki.io/ extension, but
>>> that would require being online to do the initial rendering.
>>>
>>> The rest of this, I did understand.  And I'm impressed.
>>>
>>>   -- Scott 
>>>
>>

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Graphviz_uTWility_Testing.json
Description: application/json

[tw5] Re: A TiddlyWiki "GraphViz Server" (?)

[Charlie Veniot]

BTW, adding the GraphViz plugin to a TiddlyWiki instance increases the size 
of that TiddlyWiki instance by 1.1 MB

Adding that to one TiddlyWiki instance is a problem if you only view graphs 
occasionally, and is a significant problem if you are opening and saving 
edits to that TiddlyWiki many times in a session.  Every open and every 
save has that 1.1 MB overhead.

Even more so a problem if you need occasional graphing in many TiddlyWiki 
instances.

However, if a TiddlyWiki instance relies heavily on displaying graphs 
everywhere, then much better to include the GraphViz plugin in that 
TiddlyWiki instance so that it is not loading a GraphViz uTWility (i.e. a 
whole TiddlyWiki and GraphViz plugin) for every single graph displayed in 
that TiddlyWiki.

For my use case, I prefer my TiddlyWiki's showing graph links to click on 
when I want to view a graph.  Embedding in an iframe like above, I'd be 
careful with that to make sure the host tiddler only pops up in the story 
river (or anywhere) when I want the graph displayed.

All kinds of design considerations no matter what ...

On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 6:24:20 PM UTC-3 Charlie Veniot wrote:

> All of my TiddlWiki instances are single file.
>
> Yup, any local TiddlyWiki can show any other local TiddlWiki in an iframe 
> or open it in another browser window/tab via a link.
>
> In the screenshot below, I have a local copy (older version) of the 
> GraphViz uTWility on a local drive, and another TiddlyWiki showing the 
> GraphViz uTWility in an iframe, embedding a graph specification in the URL 
> so see that graph in the iframe.
>
> [image: Screenshot 2023-03-18 6.18.44 PM.png]
>
> On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 5:57:36 PM UTC-3 scott@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> > The problem with an online GraphViz server: you have to be online and 
>> > have access to a server.
>>
>> Oh, do your wikis have access to one another when offline?  I don't have
>> anything set up like that.  I run them either as single-file wikis or in
>> standalone Node processes.  But this makes sense in that case.  I am going
>> to raise an issue regarding a possible https://kroki.io/ extension, but
>> that would require being online to do the initial rendering.
>>
>> The rest of this, I did understand.  And I'm impressed.
>>
>>   -- Scott 
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: A TiddlyWiki "GraphViz Server" (?)

[scott....@gmail.com]

> The problem with an online GraphViz server: you have to be online and 
> have access to a server.

Oh, do your wikis have access to one another when offline?  I don't have
anything set up like that.  I run them either as single-file wikis or in
standalone Node processes.  But this makes sense in that case.  I am going
to raise an issue regarding a possible https://kroki.io/ extension, but
that would require being online to do the initial rendering.

The rest of this, I did understand.  And I'm impressed.

  -- Scott 

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[tw5] Re: A TiddlyWiki "GraphViz Server" (?)

[Charlie Veniot]

I know that's a real groaner, but I need to change "GraphViz Server" to 
something else so that folk realize this isn't a "server."  It is more a 
"utility" or "appliance."

The GraphViz plugin can be added to any TiddlyWiki instance.

The purpose of this project is to have one TiddlyWiki dedicated to the job 
of having the plugin and generating graphs.

So if you have any number of TiddlyWiki instances (so a dozen) for which 
you'd like to have GraphViz capability, have just one TiddlyWiki instance 
doing the job for all of them.

Ideally a very lean TiddlyWiki instance that does nothing but generate 
graphs for all the "clients".

The beauty of this is: download your own instance of the GraphViz uTWility, 
locate it and modify it as you like.  So you have your own appliance.

And if you want to do offline stuff, you can.

The problem with an online GraphViz server: you have to be online and have 
access to a server.

Not only is this good for offline graphing, it is also good for graphing 
behind your firewall which might block access to a GraphViz server.


I have a whole bunch of TiddlyWiki instances, and GraphViz increases the 
size of a TiddlyWiki too much for my liking.  I will not have GraphViz 
saved over and over again every time I save a TiddlyWiki instance.

For a TiddlyWiki instance that is heavily reliant on many graphs, it might 
be better to include the GraphViz plugin at the cost of that much more 
getting saved every time.

The measure of a TiddlyWiki instance's performance depends on the usage of 
that TiddlyWiki.  For me, better to have GraphViz in one dedicated 
TiddlyWiki instance acting as an appliance to all of my other TiddlyWiki 
instances.

A copy of that GraphViz uTWility online for access anywhere on any device, 
and a copy locally for better performance and offline access.



On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 4:15:09 PM UTC-3 scott@gmail.com wrote:

> I wasn't around the TW community when you started discussing this.
>
> I'm fascinated by the work.  It looks quite useful.
>
> But I also wonder what TW adds in this case to any other server 
> implementation of GraphViz.  If you're going to create these diagrams
> on a server of yours or someone else's, rather than in your single-page
> wiki, why not just use one of the online servers?  https://kroki.io/ 
> looks amazing.
>
> But mostly I replied so I could groan at this:
>
> > Instead of "server", and just because I like cutesy/comical 
> portemanteaux :
> > 
> > A GraphViz u*TW*ility ?
>
> It may be common in the community already, but I hadn't seen "utwility".
>
> I'm sure I'll be stealing borrowing that!
>
> Cheers,
>
>   -- Scott
>

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[tw5] Re: A TiddlyWiki "GraphViz Server" (?)

[scott....@gmail.com]

I wasn't around the TW community when you started discussing this.

I'm fascinated by the work.  It looks quite useful.

But I also wonder what TW adds in this case to any other server 
implementation of GraphViz.  If you're going to create these diagrams
on a server of yours or someone else's, rather than in your single-page
wiki, why not just use one of the online servers?  https://kroki.io/ 
looks amazing.

But mostly I replied so I could groan at this:

> Instead of "server", and just because I like cutesy/comical portemanteaux 
:
> 
> A GraphViz u*TW*ility ?

It may be common in the community already, but I hadn't seen "utwility".

I'm sure I'll be stealing borrowing that!

Cheers,

  -- Scott

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[tw5] Re: A TiddlyWiki "GraphViz Server" (?)

[Charlie Veniot]

Drag the attached into TiddlyWiki.com for import.

Tiddlers:

   - Sample Graphs *(URL's  generated to render GraphViz images with the 
   GraphViz uTWility)*
   - gViz *(macro for generating URL's to GraphViz uTWility with graph 
   specification embedded in the URL)*
   - a bunch of example graphs with graphs specified in the "DOT" language

Open the Sample Graphs tiddler and try the links.

More samples pending ...


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gViz_Samples.json
Description: application/json

[tw5] Re: A TiddlyWiki "GraphViz Server" (?)

[Charlie Veniot]

"Server" might not be the right word.  Kind of like saying almond beverage 
is "milk".  (Digression: then why is "milk of magnesia" okay???)

Instead of "server", and just because I like cutesy/comical portemanteaux 
:

A GraphViz u*TW*ility ?

On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 8:46:30 PM UTC-3 Charlie Veniot wrote:

>  
> https://cjveniot.neocities.org/TiddlyWiki%20Projects/TwGraphVizServer.html?graph%20{%20a%20--%20b%20[color=green];%20a%20--%20z;%20b%20--%20c;%20a%20--%20c;%20%20d%20--%20c;%20%20e%20--%20c;%20%20e%20--%20a;}#GraphURL
>  
> 
>
> I just added a RangeWidget to increase the size of the GraphViz image.  So 
> a large elements with a lot of elements, which might render too small to 
> read, we can now zoom in to see the details.
>
> [image: Screenshot 2023-03-17 8.43.30 PM.png]
>
> On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 12:08:34 AM UTC-3 Charlie Veniot wrote:
>
>> "Phase 1" done:  
>> https://cjveniot.neocities.org/TiddlyWiki%20Projects/TwGraphVizServer.html?graph%20{%20a%20--%20b%20[color=green];%20a%20--%20z;%20b%20--%20c;%20a%20--%20c;%20%20d%20--%20c;%20%20e%20--%20c;%20%20e%20--%20a;}#GraphURL
>>  
>> 
>>
>> For now, cobbled together manually by concatenating in the web browser's 
>> URL the following pieces:
>>
>>- 
>>https://cjveniot.neocities.org/TiddlyWiki%20Projects/TwGraphVizServer.html
>>- graph { a -- b [color=green]; a -- z; b -- c; a -- c;  d -- c;  e 
>>-- c;  e -- a;}
>>- #GraphURL
>>
>> *(Try cobbling together some test URL's with different middles to that 
>> URL sandwich.  I haven't tried any others, and I'm betting that I'll need 
>> to handle some GraphViz syntax that will break URL's.)*
>>
>> Without knowing for sure what I want to tackle next, I know I will need:
>>
>>- A tiddler with the goodies to automagically put that URL together 
>>and provide a link to click on and/or embed things "right there" in an 
>>iframe.
>>- Show the "TW GraphViz Server" "GraphURL" tiddler full screen (i.e. 
>>hide the TiddlyWiki interface), with a button to display the TiddlyWiki 
>>interface
>>- Start going back in time to see if I can find an older version of 
>>TiddlyWiki that still works as TW GraphViz Server but is a little bit 
>>lighter: 3.8 MB for the current TiddlyWiki is heavy, and I'd like to make 
>>it reasonably lighter
>>
>> On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 7:45:38 PM UTC-3 Charlie Veniot wrote:
>>
>>> The GraphViz plugin is pretty awesome, but it does increase the size of 
>>> a TiddlyWiki instance by about 1.5 Mb's.
>>>
>>> Not something I want in every TiddlyWiki instance of mine.
>>>
>>> Which got me thinking: what if I had one TiddlyWiki instance that acted 
>>> as the "GraphViz Server" to all my other TiddlyWiki instances?
>>>
>>> That's my latest TiddlyWiki interest.
>>>
>>> A TiddlyWiki that get generate a GraphViz diagram based on input from 
>>> some other TiddlyWiki, and that can be used for creating/editing ad-hoc and 
>>> stand-alone GraphViz diagrams.
>>>
>>> "Server" first.  Then a simple tiddler that can be added to any 
>>> TiddlyWiki for sending graph requests to the "server".  (Maybe "embedded 
>>> graph generator" makes more sense than "server".)
>>>
>>> Mash-up prototype of GraphVizServer and GraphVizEditor:
>>> [image: Screenshot 2022-08-25 7.35.08 PM.png]
>>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: A TiddlyWiki "GraphViz Server" (?)

[Charlie Veniot]

 
https://cjveniot.neocities.org/TiddlyWiki%20Projects/TwGraphVizServer.html?graph%20{%20a%20--%20b%20[color=green];%20a%20--%20z;%20b%20--%20c;%20a%20--%20c;%20%20d%20--%20c;%20%20e%20--%20c;%20%20e%20--%20a;}#GraphURL
 


I just added a RangeWidget to increase the size of the GraphViz image.  So 
a large elements with a lot of elements, which might render too small to 
read, we can now zoom in to see the details.

[image: Screenshot 2023-03-17 8.43.30 PM.png]

On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 12:08:34 AM UTC-3 Charlie Veniot wrote:

> "Phase 1" done:  
> https://cjveniot.neocities.org/TiddlyWiki%20Projects/TwGraphVizServer.html?graph%20{%20a%20--%20b%20[color=green];%20a%20--%20z;%20b%20--%20c;%20a%20--%20c;%20%20d%20--%20c;%20%20e%20--%20c;%20%20e%20--%20a;}#GraphURL
>  
> 
>
> For now, cobbled together manually by concatenating in the web browser's 
> URL the following pieces:
>
>- 
>https://cjveniot.neocities.org/TiddlyWiki%20Projects/TwGraphVizServer.html
>- graph { a -- b [color=green]; a -- z; b -- c; a -- c;  d -- c;  e -- 
>c;  e -- a;}
>- #GraphURL
>
> *(Try cobbling together some test URL's with different middles to that URL 
> sandwich.  I haven't tried any others, and I'm betting that I'll need to 
> handle some GraphViz syntax that will break URL's.)*
>
> Without knowing for sure what I want to tackle next, I know I will need:
>
>- A tiddler with the goodies to automagically put that URL together 
>and provide a link to click on and/or embed things "right there" in an 
>iframe.
>- Show the "TW GraphViz Server" "GraphURL" tiddler full screen (i.e. 
>hide the TiddlyWiki interface), with a button to display the TiddlyWiki 
>interface
>- Start going back in time to see if I can find an older version of 
>TiddlyWiki that still works as TW GraphViz Server but is a little bit 
>lighter: 3.8 MB for the current TiddlyWiki is heavy, and I'd like to make 
>it reasonably lighter
>
> On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 7:45:38 PM UTC-3 Charlie Veniot wrote:
>
>> The GraphViz plugin is pretty awesome, but it does increase the size of a 
>> TiddlyWiki instance by about 1.5 Mb's.
>>
>> Not something I want in every TiddlyWiki instance of mine.
>>
>> Which got me thinking: what if I had one TiddlyWiki instance that acted 
>> as the "GraphViz Server" to all my other TiddlyWiki instances?
>>
>> That's my latest TiddlyWiki interest.
>>
>> A TiddlyWiki that get generate a GraphViz diagram based on input from 
>> some other TiddlyWiki, and that can be used for creating/editing ad-hoc and 
>> stand-alone GraphViz diagrams.
>>
>> "Server" first.  Then a simple tiddler that can be added to any 
>> TiddlyWiki for sending graph requests to the "server".  (Maybe "embedded 
>> graph generator" makes more sense than "server".)
>>
>> Mash-up prototype of GraphVizServer and GraphVizEditor:
>> [image: Screenshot 2022-08-25 7.35.08 PM.png]
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: A TiddlyWiki "GraphViz Server" (?)

[Charlie Veniot]

"Phase 1" 
done:  
https://cjveniot.neocities.org/TiddlyWiki%20Projects/TwGraphVizServer.html?graph%20{%20a%20--%20b%20[color=green];%20a%20--%20z;%20b%20--%20c;%20a%20--%20c;%20%20d%20--%20c;%20%20e%20--%20c;%20%20e%20--%20a;}#GraphURL

For now, cobbled together manually by concatenating in the web browser's 
URL the following pieces:

   - 
   https://cjveniot.neocities.org/TiddlyWiki%20Projects/TwGraphVizServer.html
   - graph { a -- b [color=green]; a -- z; b -- c; a -- c;  d -- c;  e -- 
   c;  e -- a;}
   - #GraphURL
   
*(Try cobbling together some test URL's with different middles to that URL 
sandwich.  I haven't tried any others, and I'm betting that I'll need to 
handle some GraphViz syntax that will break URL's.)*

Without knowing for sure what I want to tackle next, I know I will need:

   - A tiddler with the goodies to automagically put that URL together and 
   provide a link to click on and/or embed things "right there" in an iframe.
   - Show the "TW GraphViz Server" "GraphURL" tiddler full screen (i.e. 
   hide the TiddlyWiki interface), with a button to display the TiddlyWiki 
   interface
   - Start going back in time to see if I can find an older version of 
   TiddlyWiki that still works as TW GraphViz Server but is a little bit 
   lighter: 3.8 MB for the current TiddlyWiki is heavy, and I'd like to make 
   it reasonably lighter

On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 7:45:38 PM UTC-3 Charlie Veniot wrote:

> The GraphViz plugin is pretty awesome, but it does increase the size of a 
> TiddlyWiki instance by about 1.5 Mb's.
>
> Not something I want in every TiddlyWiki instance of mine.
>
> Which got me thinking: what if I had one TiddlyWiki instance that acted as 
> the "GraphViz Server" to all my other TiddlyWiki instances?
>
> That's my latest TiddlyWiki interest.
>
> A TiddlyWiki that get generate a GraphViz diagram based on input from some 
> other TiddlyWiki, and that can be used for creating/editing ad-hoc and 
> stand-alone GraphViz diagrams.
>
> "Server" first.  Then a simple tiddler that can be added to any TiddlyWiki 
> for sending graph requests to the "server".  (Maybe "embedded graph 
> generator" makes more sense than "server".)
>
> Mash-up prototype of GraphVizServer and GraphVizEditor:
> [image: Screenshot 2022-08-25 7.35.08 PM.png]
>

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