[tw5] Re: Initial Query -- EXIF data extraction from images?

2018-10-18 Thread @TiddlyTweeter
Thanks PMario & Mark S.

Very useful thread for me. Very clarifying.

Mark S.

> I too am puzzled why you would need/want the TW file to be nearly empty. 
>>
>
PMario...

> I think, that's obvious. All the image related data can be stored and 
> distributed with the image. TiddlyWiki is "just" the app, that lets you 
> have a nice presentation of this data. ... I do like the idea. 
>

I do think there is merit is using TW as a minimalist "shell" for some 
uses. I think this is an example where it could be appropriate.

My starting idea was that I want the image meta-data handing to be done 
dynamically via a plugin. Partly this was, as PMario, you understood, so I 
can concentrate in the TW on getting the visual presentation right. It 
really is not necessary that you have 4,000 individual tiddlers. What could 
be good is when a specific dynamically shown image is interesting you can 
favourite it and in that case create a tiddler for it.

My main technical issue is I can't program Javascript. I maybe could work 
out, with a bit of help, porting some JS based EXIF extractor IF I knew it 
were not in conflict with TW's way of working. There are several. I look at 
them a bit more and see where I get.

Where I am: Two possible routes: minimal image data extracted to TW; or, 
plugin based dynamic EXIF extraction.

Both look workable.

Thanks
Josiah

On Thursday, 18 October 2018 12:10:01 UTC+2, PMario wrote:
>
> On Thursday, October 18, 2018 at 4:52:12 AM UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:
>>
>> Sure enough, you can find one with the first google search (called, 
>> surprisingly, EXIF.js).
>>
>
> IMO exif.js contains all the functionality, that is needed to extract the 
> different values. 
>
> One problem I see is, that the value description is hard-coded english 
> language. For a TW plugin, we would want that to be translatable. 
>  
>
>> But it wants as input an image element from the DOM. Can you get that in 
>> TW ?
>>
>
> That's a point. Especially, since TW uses the DOM src-element if an image 
> is imported with _cannonical_uri. .. This means: all the work is done by 
> the browser, when it shows the image. TW does almost nothing with the image 
> data. ... So we would need a way, to extract the exif data, after the 
> browser did load / show the image. 
>  
>
>> I too am puzzled why you would need/want the TW file to be nearly empty. 
>>
>
> I think, that's obvious. All the image related data can be stored and 
> distributed with the image. TiddlyWiki is "just" the app, that lets you 
> have a nice presentation of this data. ... I do like the idea. 
>
 

>  
>
>> The information is not going to be searchable , if that is a goal, unless 
>> it is loaded in the TW.
>>
>
> That's right. 
>
> -m
>

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[tw5] Re: Initial Query -- EXIF data extraction from images?

2018-10-18 Thread @TiddlyTweeter
Thanks TonyM & Mark S. for prod to extract some EXIF data to the TW.

My focus, I think, simply comes from work on photographs Adobe Lightroom. 
It uses embedded data directly to organise its entire non-destructive 
editing system. 

So part of it is a kind of mindset *I* have about EXIF outside TW. Why 
bother importing it?

On reflection, for the use case, you may be right in that it may be better 
to have the basic EXIF data in the TW. There could also be some benefits 
for the user--like being able to export all the meta data without the end 
user needing specialised software to do so.

FWIW, I'm now thinking of extracting all the needed metadata into a single 
data-tiddler, with each line an array for each image and with the child 
painter's details, i.e.: *Image-File-Number: Name, Age, School, Gender, 
Year.*

I'll give it a go and see.

Thanks, Josiah

Mark S. wrote:
>
> I too am puzzled why you would need/want the TW file to be nearly empty. 
> The information is not going to be searchable , if that is a goal, unless 
> it is loaded in the TW.
>

TonyM wrote:

> In your case the import exif data may not be such a chore or excessive 
> space as you think. Say you had 1KB of exif data per image and 4000 images 
> this is only 4MB which is acceptable for a single function tiddlywiki 
>

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[tw5] Re: Initial Query -- EXIF data extraction from images?

2018-10-18 Thread PMario
On Thursday, October 18, 2018 at 4:52:12 AM UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:
>
> Sure enough, you can find one with the first google search (called, 
> surprisingly, EXIF.js).
>

IMO exif.js contains all the functionality, that is needed to extract the 
different values. 

One problem I see is, that the value description is hard-coded english 
language. For a TW plugin, we would want that to be translatable. 
 

> But it wants as input an image element from the DOM. Can you get that in 
> TW ?
>

That's a point. Especially, since TW uses the DOM src-element if an image 
is imported with _cannonical_uri. .. This means: all the work is done by 
the browser, when it shows the image. TW does almost nothing with the image 
data. ... So we would need a way, to extract the exif data, after the 
browser did load / show the image. 
 

> I too am puzzled why you would need/want the TW file to be nearly empty. 
>

I think, that's obvious. All the image related data can be stored and 
distributed with the image. TiddlyWiki is "just" the app, that lets you 
have a nice presentation of this data. ... I do like the idea. 
 

> The information is not going to be searchable , if that is a goal, unless 
> it is loaded in the TW.
>

That's right. 

-m

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[tw5] Re: Initial Query -- EXIF data extraction from images?

2018-10-17 Thread 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki
Sure enough, you can find one with the first google search (called, 
surprisingly, EXIF.js).

But it wants as input an image element from the DOM. Can you get that in TW 
?

I too am puzzled why you would need/want the TW file to be nearly empty. 
The information is not going to be searchable , if that is a goal, unless 
it is loaded in the TW.

-- Mark

On Wednesday, October 17, 2018 at 6:06:35 PM UTC-7, TonyM wrote:
>
> Josiah et al
>
> I imagine there would be a JavaScript solution somewhere that extracts 
> exif information from images. Ideally if someone could turn it into a 
> TiddlyWiki plugin it would help. The design would need to allow both 
> extracting the exif data from external as well as tiddler based images.
>
> I discovered in the past it was possible to import images from a mobile 
> phone camera or gallery into a Android based TiddlyWiki (I do not currently 
> recall how), which could be used to capture and document an image, later 
> exporting it to a repository where a tiddler may be retained for describing 
> it, but the image moved outside the wiki. This would be very good if the 
> exif, and geolocation data could be imported into a tiddler, perhaps even 
> with a thumb nail link to the external file. Using a recent Geolocation 
> plugin you could show images near me.
>
> In your case the import exif data may not be such a chore or excessive 
> space as you think. Say you had 1KB of exif data per image and 4000 images 
> this is only 4MB which is acceptable for a single function tiddlywiki. And 
> once you have tiddlers for each image you have the power to tag and 
> manipulate in other ways.
>
> Interesting work Josiah
>
> Regards
> Tony
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, October 18, 2018 at 8:44:37 AM UTC+11, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>
>> The end aim here is single file stand alone. Thanks for the note of an FF 
>> add-on for EXIF. I'll take a look. There are EXIF tools and extractors on 
>> Github. I need study them more to even guess what might work.
>>
>> -- J.
>>
>> On Wednesday, 17 October 2018 23:31:54 UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:
>>>
>>> You didn't mention if it was node or static file.
>>>
>>> The reason I ask is because, as you have mentioned, you can call scripts 
>>> from Bob. So I was just thinking that it might be possible to call a script 
>>> on the fly that would extract the data as needed. But that wouldn't be 
>>> possible from a stand-alone TW file.
>>>
>>> There is a plugin for FF that presents EXIF data.
>>>
>>> -- Mark
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, October 17, 2018 at 2:19:05 PM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:

 In the TW nothing at all for the images:-) They are presented by simply 
 generating a random number in the range  and 3999. All the files are 
 numbered like "fw_1234.jpg" and presented one at a time. It works for that 
 app as they are simply a vast set of images so no persistent tiddlers are 
 needed. I do intend to add ability to add favourites  eventually, but that 
 would simply be a list of pointers to external files. I aim to use EXIF 
 without creating 4000 Tiddlers or any external lists. If I wanted I could 
 do that already simply extracting the EXIF to spreadsheet and importing 
 them.Its that I'm trying to avoid. I'm hoping, if I can figure it out, how 
 to use embedded EXIF data in images dynamically only when showing the 
 image. It won't persist beyond that as it would not be needed.

 Hope this is clear!

 Josiah

 On Wednesday, 17 October 2018 22:43:57 UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:
>
> Until someone with the answer shows up, a few questions.
>
> What information *are *you storing in the TW (if not EXIF, then 
> what?) ?
>
> Is this being served up via Bob, or single-file?
>
> I'm sure there are tools for extracting and making files from EXIF 
> data (DigiKam will make sidecars, for instance). So if you had 4000 exif 
> files, it should be possible to make 4000 tid files that could then be 
> either combined or linked to existing image tiddlers.
>
> -- Mark
>
> On Wednesday, October 17, 2018 at 10:53:46 AM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter 
> wrote:
>>
>> I have a long term project to showcase 4000 images of paintings made 
>> by children of Bonfire Night (a great UK festival held on the 5th of 
>> November).
>>
>> I already figured out how to show them without them ever having 
>> Tiddlers in TW (too many to do one by one). Showing is done using 
>> numbers 
>> generated between 0 & 3999 rather than calling on individual Tiddlers. 
>> It 
>> works. 
>>
>> The remaining issue is meta data that is held in the image files as 
>> EXIF data. And that is my concern here. 
>>
>> I'm wondering if anyone knows of a way to extract EXIF data from 
>> image files using TW? 
>>
>> The great advantage of EXIF is that every image caries with it its 
>> own data record (like: 

[tw5] Re: Initial Query -- EXIF data extraction from images?

2018-10-17 Thread TonyM
Josiah et al

I imagine there would be a JavaScript solution somewhere that extracts exif 
information from images. Ideally if someone could turn it into a TiddlyWiki 
plugin it would help. The design would need to allow both extracting the 
exif data from external as well as tiddler based images.

I discovered in the past it was possible to import images from a mobile 
phone camera or gallery into a Android based TiddlyWiki (I do not currently 
recall how), which could be used to capture and document an image, later 
exporting it to a repository where a tiddler may be retained for describing 
it, but the image moved outside the wiki. This would be very good if the 
exif, and geolocation data could be imported into a tiddler, perhaps even 
with a thumb nail link to the external file. Using a recent Geolocation 
plugin you could show images near me.

In your case the import exif data may not be such a chore or excessive 
space as you think. Say you had 1KB of exif data per image and 4000 images 
this is only 4MB which is acceptable for a single function tiddlywiki. And 
once you have tiddlers for each image you have the power to tag and 
manipulate in other ways.

Interesting work Josiah

Regards
Tony




On Thursday, October 18, 2018 at 8:44:37 AM UTC+11, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> The end aim here is single file stand alone. Thanks for the note of an FF 
> add-on for EXIF. I'll take a look. There are EXIF tools and extractors on 
> Github. I need study them more to even guess what might work.
>
> -- J.
>
> On Wednesday, 17 October 2018 23:31:54 UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:
>>
>> You didn't mention if it was node or static file.
>>
>> The reason I ask is because, as you have mentioned, you can call scripts 
>> from Bob. So I was just thinking that it might be possible to call a script 
>> on the fly that would extract the data as needed. But that wouldn't be 
>> possible from a stand-alone TW file.
>>
>> There is a plugin for FF that presents EXIF data.
>>
>> -- Mark
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 17, 2018 at 2:19:05 PM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>>
>>> In the TW nothing at all for the images:-) They are presented by simply 
>>> generating a random number in the range  and 3999. All the files are 
>>> numbered like "fw_1234.jpg" and presented one at a time. It works for that 
>>> app as they are simply a vast set of images so no persistent tiddlers are 
>>> needed. I do intend to add ability to add favourites  eventually, but that 
>>> would simply be a list of pointers to external files. I aim to use EXIF 
>>> without creating 4000 Tiddlers or any external lists. If I wanted I could 
>>> do that already simply extracting the EXIF to spreadsheet and importing 
>>> them.Its that I'm trying to avoid. I'm hoping, if I can figure it out, how 
>>> to use embedded EXIF data in images dynamically only when showing the 
>>> image. It won't persist beyond that as it would not be needed.
>>>
>>> Hope this is clear!
>>>
>>> Josiah
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, 17 October 2018 22:43:57 UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:

 Until someone with the answer shows up, a few questions.

 What information *are *you storing in the TW (if not EXIF, then what?) 
 ?

 Is this being served up via Bob, or single-file?

 I'm sure there are tools for extracting and making files from EXIF data 
 (DigiKam will make sidecars, for instance). So if you had 4000 exif files, 
 it should be possible to make 4000 tid files that could then be either 
 combined or linked to existing image tiddlers.

 -- Mark

 On Wednesday, October 17, 2018 at 10:53:46 AM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter 
 wrote:
>
> I have a long term project to showcase 4000 images of paintings made 
> by children of Bonfire Night (a great UK festival held on the 5th of 
> November).
>
> I already figured out how to show them without them ever having 
> Tiddlers in TW (too many to do one by one). Showing is done using numbers 
> generated between 0 & 3999 rather than calling on individual Tiddlers. It 
> works. 
>
> The remaining issue is meta data that is held in the image files as 
> EXIF data. And that is my concern here. 
>
> I'm wondering if anyone knows of a way to extract EXIF data from image 
> files using TW? 
>
> The great advantage of EXIF is that every image caries with it its own 
> data record (like: description, date shot, and any details I add) so 
> there 
> is no need for a second external set of documentation or database. Being 
> able to access EXIF data in images loaded into TW would keep it very 
> lightweight and efficient for large galleries of images--whilst providing 
> useful displayable information.
>
> This is just an initial query to see if anyone here may have 
> understanding of what I am getting at.
>
> Any tips appreciated.
>
> Best wishes
> Josiah
>


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[tw5] Re: Initial Query -- EXIF data extraction from images?

2018-10-17 Thread @TiddlyTweeter
The end aim here is single file stand alone. Thanks for the note of an FF 
add-on for EXIF. I'll take a look. There are EXIF tools and extractors on 
Github. I need study them more to even guess what might work.

-- J.

On Wednesday, 17 October 2018 23:31:54 UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:
>
> You didn't mention if it was node or static file.
>
> The reason I ask is because, as you have mentioned, you can call scripts 
> from Bob. So I was just thinking that it might be possible to call a script 
> on the fly that would extract the data as needed. But that wouldn't be 
> possible from a stand-alone TW file.
>
> There is a plugin for FF that presents EXIF data.
>
> -- Mark
>
> On Wednesday, October 17, 2018 at 2:19:05 PM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>
>> In the TW nothing at all for the images:-) They are presented by simply 
>> generating a random number in the range  and 3999. All the files are 
>> numbered like "fw_1234.jpg" and presented one at a time. It works for that 
>> app as they are simply a vast set of images so no persistent tiddlers are 
>> needed. I do intend to add ability to add favourites  eventually, but that 
>> would simply be a list of pointers to external files. I aim to use EXIF 
>> without creating 4000 Tiddlers or any external lists. If I wanted I could 
>> do that already simply extracting the EXIF to spreadsheet and importing 
>> them.Its that I'm trying to avoid. I'm hoping, if I can figure it out, how 
>> to use embedded EXIF data in images dynamically only when showing the 
>> image. It won't persist beyond that as it would not be needed.
>>
>> Hope this is clear!
>>
>> Josiah
>>
>> On Wednesday, 17 October 2018 22:43:57 UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:
>>>
>>> Until someone with the answer shows up, a few questions.
>>>
>>> What information *are *you storing in the TW (if not EXIF, then what?) ?
>>>
>>> Is this being served up via Bob, or single-file?
>>>
>>> I'm sure there are tools for extracting and making files from EXIF data 
>>> (DigiKam will make sidecars, for instance). So if you had 4000 exif files, 
>>> it should be possible to make 4000 tid files that could then be either 
>>> combined or linked to existing image tiddlers.
>>>
>>> -- Mark
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, October 17, 2018 at 10:53:46 AM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter 
>>> wrote:

 I have a long term project to showcase 4000 images of paintings made by 
 children of Bonfire Night (a great UK festival held on the 5th of 
 November).

 I already figured out how to show them without them ever having 
 Tiddlers in TW (too many to do one by one). Showing is done using numbers 
 generated between 0 & 3999 rather than calling on individual Tiddlers. It 
 works. 

 The remaining issue is meta data that is held in the image files as 
 EXIF data. And that is my concern here. 

 I'm wondering if anyone knows of a way to extract EXIF data from image 
 files using TW? 

 The great advantage of EXIF is that every image caries with it its own 
 data record (like: description, date shot, and any details I add) so there 
 is no need for a second external set of documentation or database. Being 
 able to access EXIF data in images loaded into TW would keep it very 
 lightweight and efficient for large galleries of images--whilst providing 
 useful displayable information.

 This is just an initial query to see if anyone here may have 
 understanding of what I am getting at.

 Any tips appreciated.

 Best wishes
 Josiah

>>>

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[tw5] Re: Initial Query -- EXIF data extraction from images?

2018-10-17 Thread 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki
You didn't mention if it was node or static file.

The reason I ask is because, as you have mentioned, you can call scripts 
from Bob. So I was just thinking that it might be possible to call a script 
on the fly that would extract the data as needed. But that wouldn't be 
possible from a stand-alone TW file.

There is a plugin for FF that presents EXIF data.

-- Mark

On Wednesday, October 17, 2018 at 2:19:05 PM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> In the TW nothing at all for the images:-) They are presented by simply 
> generating a random number in the range  and 3999. All the files are 
> numbered like "fw_1234.jpg" and presented one at a time. It works for that 
> app as they are simply a vast set of images so no persistent tiddlers are 
> needed. I do intend to add ability to add favourites  eventually, but that 
> would simply be a list of pointers to external files. I aim to use EXIF 
> without creating 4000 Tiddlers or any external lists. If I wanted I could 
> do that already simply extracting the EXIF to spreadsheet and importing 
> them.Its that I'm trying to avoid. I'm hoping, if I can figure it out, how 
> to use embedded EXIF data in images dynamically only when showing the 
> image. It won't persist beyond that as it would not be needed.
>
> Hope this is clear!
>
> Josiah
>
> On Wednesday, 17 October 2018 22:43:57 UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:
>>
>> Until someone with the answer shows up, a few questions.
>>
>> What information *are *you storing in the TW (if not EXIF, then what?) ?
>>
>> Is this being served up via Bob, or single-file?
>>
>> I'm sure there are tools for extracting and making files from EXIF data 
>> (DigiKam will make sidecars, for instance). So if you had 4000 exif files, 
>> it should be possible to make 4000 tid files that could then be either 
>> combined or linked to existing image tiddlers.
>>
>> -- Mark
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 17, 2018 at 10:53:46 AM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>>
>>> I have a long term project to showcase 4000 images of paintings made by 
>>> children of Bonfire Night (a great UK festival held on the 5th of November).
>>>
>>> I already figured out how to show them without them ever having Tiddlers 
>>> in TW (too many to do one by one). Showing is done using numbers generated 
>>> between 0 & 3999 rather than calling on individual Tiddlers. It works. 
>>>
>>> The remaining issue is meta data that is held in the image files as EXIF 
>>> data. And that is my concern here. 
>>>
>>> I'm wondering if anyone knows of a way to extract EXIF data from image 
>>> files using TW? 
>>>
>>> The great advantage of EXIF is that every image caries with it its own 
>>> data record (like: description, date shot, and any details I add) so there 
>>> is no need for a second external set of documentation or database. Being 
>>> able to access EXIF data in images loaded into TW would keep it very 
>>> lightweight and efficient for large galleries of images--whilst providing 
>>> useful displayable information.
>>>
>>> This is just an initial query to see if anyone here may have 
>>> understanding of what I am getting at.
>>>
>>> Any tips appreciated.
>>>
>>> Best wishes
>>> Josiah
>>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Initial Query -- EXIF data extraction from images?

2018-10-17 Thread @TiddlyTweeter
In the TW nothing at all for the images:-) They are presented by simply 
generating a random number in the range  and 3999. All the files are 
numbered like "fw_1234.jpg" and presented one at a time. It works for that 
app as they are simply a vast set of images so no persistent tiddlers are 
needed. I do intend to add ability to add favourites  eventually, but that 
would simply be a list of pointers to external files. I aim to use EXIF 
without creating 4000 Tiddlers or any external lists. If I wanted I could 
do that already simply extracting the EXIF to spreadsheet and importing 
them.Its that I'm trying to avoid. I'm hoping, if I can figure it out, how 
to use embedded EXIF data in images dynamically only when showing the 
image. It won't persist beyond that as I would not be needed.

Hope this is clear!

Josiah

On Wednesday, 17 October 2018 22:43:57 UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:
>
> Until someone with the answer shows up, a few questions.
>
> What information *are *you storing in the TW (if not EXIF, then what?) ?
>
> Is this being served up via Bob, or single-file?
>
> I'm sure there are tools for extracting and making files from EXIF data 
> (DigiKam will make sidecars, for instance). So if you had 4000 exif files, 
> it should be possible to make 4000 tid files that could then be either 
> combined or linked to existing image tiddlers.
>
> -- Mark
>
> On Wednesday, October 17, 2018 at 10:53:46 AM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>
>> I have a long term project to showcase 4000 images of paintings made by 
>> children of Bonfire Night (a great UK festival held on the 5th of November).
>>
>> I already figured out how to show them without them ever having Tiddlers 
>> in TW (too many to do one by one). Showing is done using numbers generated 
>> between 0 & 3999 rather than calling on individual Tiddlers. It works. 
>>
>> The remaining issue is meta data that is held in the image files as EXIF 
>> data. And that is my concern here. 
>>
>> I'm wondering if anyone knows of a way to extract EXIF data from image 
>> files using TW? 
>>
>> The great advantage of EXIF is that every image caries with it its own 
>> data record (like: description, date shot, and any details I add) so there 
>> is no need for a second external set of documentation or database. Being 
>> able to access EXIF data in images loaded into TW would keep it very 
>> lightweight and efficient for large galleries of images--whilst providing 
>> useful displayable information.
>>
>> This is just an initial query to see if anyone here may have 
>> understanding of what I am getting at.
>>
>> Any tips appreciated.
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Josiah
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: Initial Query -- EXIF data extraction from images?

2018-10-17 Thread 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki
Until someone with the answer shows up, a few questions.

What information *are *you storing in the TW (if not EXIF, then what?) ?

Is this being served up via Bob, or single-file?

I'm sure there are tools for extracting and making files from EXIF data 
(DigiKam will make sidecars, for instance). So if you had 4000 exif files, 
it should be possible to make 4000 tid files that could then be either 
combined or linked to existing image tiddlers.

-- Mark

On Wednesday, October 17, 2018 at 10:53:46 AM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> I have a long term project to showcase 4000 images of paintings made by 
> children of Bonfire Night (a great UK festival held on the 5th of November).
>
> I already figured out how to show them without them ever having Tiddlers 
> in TW (too many to do one by one). Showing is done using numbers generated 
> between 0 & 3999 rather than calling on individual Tiddlers. It works. 
>
> The remaining issue is meta data that is held in the image files as EXIF 
> data. And that is my concern here. 
>
> I'm wondering if anyone knows of a way to extract EXIF data from image 
> files using TW? 
>
> The great advantage of EXIF is that every image caries with it its own 
> data record (like: description, date shot, and any details I add) so there 
> is no need for a second external set of documentation or database. Being 
> able to access EXIF data in images loaded into TW would keep it very 
> lightweight and efficient for large galleries of images--whilst providing 
> useful displayable information.
>
> This is just an initial query to see if anyone here may have understanding 
> of what I am getting at.
>
> Any tips appreciated.
>
> Best wishes
> Josiah
>

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