[tw5] Re: So I want to make ...

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

A slightly more abstract aspect overlooked in the xkcd comic is that of 
learning. What you learn doing a project may help you in making other 
projects, which will take less time to develop and thus have a better ROI. 
These kinds of benefits are more difficult to calculate, but equally valid. 
I find that learning, without an actual objective, is very difficult.

-- Mark

On Thursday, February 21, 2019 at 9:17:46 PM UTC-8, S. S. wrote:
>
> So I want to make a custom drop down menu on my tiddler's view toolbar 
> that will:
>
>1. . . .
>2. . . .
>3. . . .
>4. . . .
>5. AND ALSO ...
>   1. . . .
>   2. . . .
>   3. . . .
>   
> How much time should I spend on it?
> https://xkcd.com/1205/
>
>

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[tw5] Re: So I want to make ...

[@TiddlyTweeter]

S. S. wrote:
>
> ... Dictionary Links that Mohammed picked up for his Tw-Scripts. I never 
> bothered to make an interface to add and remove items from the data tiddler 
> that holds the link names and patterns.
>

Ciao S.S. 

I stumbled on that tool of yours in TW-Scripts. It's incredibly useful!

Sure, one could finesse it forever. But just seeing and using it--well  I'm 
grateful you showed it. Others can then take it and finesse it if they 
want. 

I'm using it a lot with no real changes. 

I like its self-contained. Regarding using... well all you need do is clone 
it to make another search set. And data dictionaries are easy to edit and 
maintain.

So thanks! :-)
Josiah

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[tw5] Re: So I want to make ...

[TonyM]

S S,

I empathise with your position. One of my personal advances has being 
building a feature called context, for each tiddler. Containing Domain, 
Project, Client fields. I found a new tiddler drop down can now generate 
new items "in context" by populating the current context fields.Some gains 
pay off forever. One way to know which improvements are of value and others 
of less value, is evaluating what others do in the community, their hard 
won gains, as a result we need to share, but sharing should not be too high 
barrier, or we will share less. Its basically a balancing game.

Regards
Tony

On Sunday, February 24, 2019 at 12:44:43 PM UTC+11, S. S. wrote:
>
> This post came about after reading an interesting recent (July 2018) blog 
> post from an ex-google programmer : Why not add an option for that? 
> 
> It had a link to xkcd  but not to the little "How 
> Long" chart I posted above. 
>
> There is also a link to an April 2000 post by Joel Spolsky (of Stack 
> Overflow) that I read: Choices 
> 
>
> Everything I do on my own TiddlyWiki is just for myself. The enhancements 
> come about organically, and so are not "configurable." Changes and 
> additions are hard coded. If I had to make it re-usable for others I would 
> probably not make them, as I would then want to do it perfectly, and it 
> would take too much longer.
>
> One obvious example was the Dictionary Links that Mohammed picked up for 
> his Tw-Scripts. I never bothered to make an interface to add and remove 
> items from the data tiddler that holds the link names and patterns.
>
> Another is a dropdown menu to make new tiddlers for specific topics by 
> using templates. For each particular topic, it adds all the correct fields 
> & tags & puts in the macros that display the fields, the next and previous 
> buttons, etc. This one saves me a LOT of time, multiple times a session. 
> But at the time I made it, if I had to make it for others to use, I would 
> have probably given up! Now, after seeing so many examples of how it is 
> done, I probably could do it, but still probably won't - as doing it WELL 
> is not the same as just doing it!
>
> [image: Create New Tiddler Buttons]
>
> Cheers!
>
>
>

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[tw5] Re: So I want to make ...

[S. S.]

This post came about after reading an interesting recent (July 2018) blog 
post from an ex-google programmer : Why not add an option for that? 

It had a link to xkcd  but not to the little "How Long" 
chart I posted above. 

There is also a link to an April 2000 post by Joel Spolsky (of Stack 
Overflow) that I read: Choices 


Everything I do on my own TiddlyWiki is just for myself. The enhancements 
come about organically, and so are not "configurable." Changes and 
additions are hard coded. If I had to make it re-usable for others I would 
probably not make them, as I would then want to do it perfectly, and it 
would take too much longer.

One obvious example was the Dictionary Links  that 
Mohammed picked up for his Tw-Scripts. I never bothered to make an 
interface to add and remove items from the data tiddler that holds the link 
names and patterns.

Another is a dropdown menu to make new tiddlers for specific topics by 
using templates. For each particular topic, it adds all the correct fields 
& tags & puts in the macros that display the fields, the next and previous 
buttons, etc. This one saves me a LOT of time, multiple times a session. 
But at the time I made it, if I had to make it for others to use, I would 
have probably given up! Now, after seeing so many examples of how it is 
done, I probably could do it, but still probably won't - as doing it WELL 
is not the same as just doing it!

[image: Create New Tiddler Buttons]

Cheers!


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[tw5] Re: So I want to make ...

[TonyM]

Thomas,

I think you are right, when you place such developments in a community it 
changes a lot, here is however leakage, when people can't find good prior 
work, but community is always a multiplier effect.

I would add however this is even in relation to your future self. A 
productivity improvement now, can inform another productivity improvement 
in the future. As I commonly point out if you try and keep what you do in a 
reusable form this may take 10% more effort to do so, however in the second 
instance it may take 50% of the effort. The benefit is realised in only one 
similar case.

   1. Build a productivity improvement 1 hours effort to achieve according 
   to the provided table. Add 6 mins to your effort to make it reusable (10% 
   more)  = 1:06h effort
   2. Build a second productivity improvement by making use of the Prior 
   reusable solution (1) 0:30 mins (half) of the effort (if 1 was not 
   reusable), (make it reusable +10%)  Total Effort so far 1:39 of a possible 
   2hrs
   3. Build a third productivity improvement  based on one or both of the 
   previous improvements perhaps 20mins, + 10% to reusability = 22mins so now 
   we are benefiting from diminishing costs. 2:01hrs effort rather than a 
   possible 3hr investment.

Each of the above still return the benefits reflected in the table.through 
repetition.
You can change the cost and benefits of reusability in various ways and you 
will almost always be ahead.

I have spent 100's of hours with tiddlywiki, but now my productivity has 
skyrocketed.

Regards
Tony

On Sunday, February 24, 2019 at 8:28:46 AM UTC+11, Thomas Elmiger wrote:
>
> This gets more interesting than I thought ;–) 
> The comic only talks about you, a single user. It doesn't take into 
> account that others might save time too. (That's my personal justification 
> to spend unreasonable amounts of time with TW solutions. They are easy to 
> share and many others might use them.) 
>
> All the best, 
> Thomas 

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[tw5] Re: So I want to make ...

[Thomas Elmiger]

This gets more interesting than I thought ;–)
The comic only talks about you, a single user. It doesn't take into account 
that others might save time too. (That's my personal justification to spend 
unreasonable amounts of time with TW solutions. They are easy to share and many 
others might use them.)

All the best, 
Thomas 

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[tw5] Re: So I want to make ...

[HansWobbe]

The value of this chart for me is that it suggests I should never do 
anything advanced.  TW is so rich in optional solutions, that I inevitably 
spend a lot of time Searching, Evaluating, and Optimizing solutions.  The 
result is that I would likely never be able to achieve payback from 
improved operations.

Now, I have reached a level of understanding that lets me learn from others 
by just lurking until I see a technique that is an obvious improvement in 
my learning (as opposed to doing).  Furthermore, I am now finding myself 
getting closer to the (bleeding) edge since my investment in TW is such 
that I still want to learn more.  This is best (for me) by experimenting 
with the HOT new features that are under active discussion (which is much 
better than book-marking them for later attention and then try to 
find/remeber them).

One final observation; the recent more rapid evolution of TW resources is a 
true blessing.  My thanks to one and all for making those freely available.

Cheers,
Hans

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[tw5] Re: So I want to make ...

[Joshua Fontany]

I had been staring at wikitext syntax too long. LOL, should have clicked on 
the link.


On Friday, February 22, 2019 at 12:46:28 AM UTC-8, S. S. wrote:
>
> Sorry guys, it was meant to be tongue in cheek!
>
> Sometimes I spend so much time making a feature that saves less time than 
> it took to make the feature.
>
> That's where the link led:
>
>
>
> [image: https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/is_it_worth_the_time_2x.png] 
> 
>
>
>

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[tw5] Re: So I want to make ...

[S. S.]

Sorry guys, it was meant to be tongue in cheek!

Sometimes I spend so much time making a feature that saves less time than 
it took to make the feature.

That's where the link led:



[image: https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/is_it_worth_the_time_2x.png] 



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[tw5] Re: So I want to make ...

[Mohammad]

S.S
 This is a cascade menu! As Joshua pointed out using reveal widget is 
possible.

Mohammad


On Friday, February 22, 2019 at 8:47:46 AM UTC+3:30, S. S. wrote:
>
> So I want to make a custom drop down menu on my tiddler's view toolbar 
> that will:
>
>1. . . .
>2. . . .
>3. . . .
>4. . . .
>5. AND ALSO ...
>   1. . . .
>   2. . . .
>   3. . . .
>   
> How much time should I spend on it?
> https://xkcd.com/1205/
>
>

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[tw5] Re: So I want to make ...

[Joshua Fontany]

You need an accordion reveal (two $reveal widgets with a button in each) 
inside of a pop-up reveal.

<$reveal type="popup>

  <$list>

<$reveal>
  Button 
<$/reveal>

<$reveal> Button

  <$list>
  sub-list content here
  



  



On Thursday, February 21, 2019 at 9:17:46 PM UTC-8, S. S. wrote:
>
> So I want to make a custom drop down menu on my tiddler's view toolbar 
> that will:
>
>1. . . .
>2. . . .
>3. . . .
>4. . . .
>5. AND ALSO ...
>   1. . . .
>   2. . . .
>   3. . . .
>   
> How much time should I spend on it?
> https://xkcd.com/1205/
>
>

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