Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki for Books (Newbie Questions)

[Ste]

Animated svg's?
https://app.svgator.com/

On Tuesday, 9 February 2021 at 17:47:16 UTC Odin wrote:

> You can make a list of tiddlers that are supposed to be viewed in order. 
> Add this macro (or a variation of it) by Mohammed (
> https://kookma.github.io/TW-Utility/#demo%2Fsimple-navigation). This adds 
> navigation to those tiddlers, so users can press 'previous' and 'next' 
> buttons to go back and forth in a linear manner. You can then ofcourse 
> style the buttons however you please.
> What makes this macro pretty handy is that it uses the order that is in 
> the tag-dropdown list. You can drag-and-drop tiddlers in that list to 
> change the order. So it is easy to rearrange and order your tiddlers, 
> without changing links you've made in the text.
>
> Op dinsdag 9 februari 2021 om 16:32:15 UTC+1 schreef 
> jbigos...@ncc.commnet.edu:
>
>> Thank you kindly Mat, PMario, and Mark S for all your comments. You have 
>> given me much to think about it. 
>>
>>  
>>
>> In response to some of the clarifying questions, here are my 
>> justifications for pursuing TiddyWiki, and my current requirements:
>>
>>  
>>
>>- I like the fact that TW is a one file that can be easily viewed, 
>>downloaded or make derivative works from. I can see, however, that may 
>>cause file bloat and when adding images. A 400 mb single file isn’t going 
>>to work when students will be likely using their underpowered smart 
>> phones 
>>to read the text and images. Maybe I can host image in a folder and link 
>> to 
>>it from TW, but that would break the derivative part unless there is a 
>>plugin to automagically create PDFs, downloadable EPUB, etc ( like there 
>> is 
>>download option for Wikipedia\Wikimedia). I just don’t want to constantly 
>>maintain and update a separate file for that purpose. An acceptable 
>>compromise might by a chapter by chapter download versus the whole thing. 
>>Or maybe I shouldn’t care and just leave it to the end-user to figure it 
>>out. Seems very rude though IMHO. This isn’t a critical feature for me, 
>> but 
>>it is part of the OER ethos. 
>>
>>- To me, a linear process is going from Step 1, Step 2, and likewise, 
>>reading from Chapter 1 to Chapter 2, and so on. You are correct that 
>> books, 
>>per se, are not very linear in their creation, but I was alluding to the 
>>process in which they are read or understood. I don’t want to confuse 
>>students by making it too easy to skip around and miss critical concepts 
>> by 
>>not going in a specific order, which can happen with “Research Wormholes” 
>>on Wikipedia where all you wanted to find out was about Topic A but then 
>>you get off-track by reading Topic B,C,D,E, etc. 
>>
>>- I’m drawn to FLIF as a modern alternative to animated GIFs., which 
>>depending on size and resolution can result in massive file sizes. I do 
>> not 
>>think that JPEG XL can serve animated content, if only be going by the 
>> lack 
>>of doing so for JPEG and JPEG2000. Considering device issues and internet 
>>connection speeds, GIFs really aren’t going to cut it. I could fall back 
>> on 
>>APNGs, but that format doesn’t have much browser support either but it 
>> may 
>>end up being the necessary compromise if I can’t get FLIF to work 
>>correctly. The only player left in this small format field (AFAIK) is 
>>Google’s WebP format, but cursory research reveals double the file size 
>> of 
>>an equivalent animated GIF. 
>>http://littlesvr.ca/apng/gif_apng_webp3.html You might point out to 
>>just use videos, but people read faster than listening to the spoken word 
>>or watching a video. I want to be able to serve short animations of 5-30 
>>seconds of content at a time, as necessary, fronted and backed by the 
>>appropriate text explanation. I’m not a back-end developer so by 
>> suggesting 
>>to figure out a widget to make FLIF work with TW is probably the answer – 
>>not going to happen. =)
>>
>>- I just saw the post about a TiddlyWiki Textbook. That’s really cool 
>>and will try attempt to contribute only to see if that’s going to work 
>> for 
>>my needs. In the meantime, I guess it’s time for some rigorous testing. 
>>    Aside from TiddlyWiki, I’ve been looking at DocuWiki and Wiki.js. I might 
>>have an open source webhost lined up too (where server space and 
>> bandwidth 
>>is limited – nec

Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki for Books (Newbie Questions)

[Odin]

You can make a list of tiddlers that are supposed to be viewed in order. 
Add this macro (or a variation of it) by Mohammed 
(https://kookma.github.io/TW-Utility/#demo%2Fsimple-navigation). This adds 
navigation to those tiddlers, so users can press 'previous' and 'next' 
buttons to go back and forth in a linear manner. You can then ofcourse 
style the buttons however you please.
What makes this macro pretty handy is that it uses the order that is in the 
tag-dropdown list. You can drag-and-drop tiddlers in that list to change 
the order. So it is easy to rearrange and order your tiddlers, without 
changing links you've made in the text.

Op dinsdag 9 februari 2021 om 16:32:15 UTC+1 schreef 
jbigos...@ncc.commnet.edu:

> Thank you kindly Mat, PMario, and Mark S for all your comments. You have 
> given me much to think about it. 
>
>  
>
> In response to some of the clarifying questions, here are my 
> justifications for pursuing TiddyWiki, and my current requirements:
>
>  
>
>- I like the fact that TW is a one file that can be easily viewed, 
>downloaded or make derivative works from. I can see, however, that may 
>cause file bloat and when adding images. A 400 mb single file isn’t going 
>to work when students will be likely using their underpowered smart phones 
>to read the text and images. Maybe I can host image in a folder and link 
> to 
>it from TW, but that would break the derivative part unless there is a 
>plugin to automagically create PDFs, downloadable EPUB, etc ( like there 
> is 
>download option for Wikipedia\Wikimedia). I just don’t want to constantly 
>maintain and update a separate file for that purpose. An acceptable 
>compromise might by a chapter by chapter download versus the whole thing. 
>Or maybe I shouldn’t care and just leave it to the end-user to figure it 
>out. Seems very rude though IMHO. This isn’t a critical feature for me, 
> but 
>it is part of the OER ethos. 
>
>- To me, a linear process is going from Step 1, Step 2, and likewise, 
>reading from Chapter 1 to Chapter 2, and so on. You are correct that 
> books, 
>per se, are not very linear in their creation, but I was alluding to the 
>process in which they are read or understood. I don’t want to confuse 
>students by making it too easy to skip around and miss critical concepts 
> by 
>not going in a specific order, which can happen with “Research Wormholes” 
>on Wikipedia where all you wanted to find out was about Topic A but then 
>you get off-track by reading Topic B,C,D,E, etc. 
>
>- I’m drawn to FLIF as a modern alternative to animated GIFs., which 
>depending on size and resolution can result in massive file sizes. I do 
> not 
>think that JPEG XL can serve animated content, if only be going by the 
> lack 
>of doing so for JPEG and JPEG2000. Considering device issues and internet 
>connection speeds, GIFs really aren’t going to cut it. I could fall back 
> on 
>APNGs, but that format doesn’t have much browser support either but it may 
>end up being the necessary compromise if I can’t get FLIF to work 
>correctly. The only player left in this small format field (AFAIK) is 
>Google’s WebP format, but cursory research reveals double the file size of 
>an equivalent animated GIF. 
>http://littlesvr.ca/apng/gif_apng_webp3.html You might point out to 
>just use videos, but people read faster than listening to the spoken word 
>or watching a video. I want to be able to serve short animations of 5-30 
>seconds of content at a time, as necessary, fronted and backed by the 
>appropriate text explanation. I’m not a back-end developer so by 
> suggesting 
>to figure out a widget to make FLIF work with TW is probably the answer – 
>not going to happen. =)
>
>- I just saw the post about a TiddlyWiki Textbook. That’s really cool 
>and will try attempt to contribute only to see if that’s going to work for 
>my needs. In the meantime, I guess it’s time for some rigorous testing. 
>Aside from TiddlyWiki, I’ve been looking at DocuWiki and Wiki.js. I might 
>have an open source webhost lined up too (where server space and bandwidth 
>is limited – necessitating image compression algorithms), we’ll see.
>
>
>  
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Jeremi
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
> *From:* tiddl...@googlegroups.com  *On Behalf 
> Of *PMario
> *Sent:* Monday, February 8, 2021 1:12 PM
> *To:* TiddlyWiki 
> *Subject:* [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki for Books (Newbie Questions)
>
>  
>
> On Monday, February 8, 2021 at 3:41:48 PM UTC+1 jbigos...@ncc.commnet.edu 
> wrote:
>
&

RE: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki for Books (Newbie Questions)

[Bigosinski, Jeremi J]

Thank you kindly Mat, PMario, and Mark S for all your comments. You have given 
me much to think about it.

In response to some of the clarifying questions, here are my justifications for 
pursuing TiddyWiki, and my current requirements:


  *   I like the fact that TW is a one file that can be easily viewed, 
downloaded or make derivative works from. I can see, however, that may cause 
file bloat and when adding images. A 400 mb single file isn't going to work 
when students will be likely using their underpowered smart phones to read the 
text and images. Maybe I can host image in a folder and link to it from TW, but 
that would break the derivative part unless there is a plugin to automagically 
create PDFs, downloadable EPUB, etc ( like there is download option for 
Wikipedia\Wikimedia). I just don't want to constantly maintain and update a 
separate file for that purpose. An acceptable compromise might by a chapter by 
chapter download versus the whole thing. Or maybe I shouldn't care and just 
leave it to the end-user to figure it out. Seems very rude though IMHO. This 
isn't a critical feature for me, but it is part of the OER ethos.

  *   To me, a linear process is going from Step 1, Step 2, and likewise, 
reading from Chapter 1 to Chapter 2, and so on. You are correct that books, per 
se, are not very linear in their creation, but I was alluding to the process in 
which they are read or understood. I don't want to confuse students by making 
it too easy to skip around and miss critical concepts by not going in a 
specific order, which can happen with "Research Wormholes" on Wikipedia where 
all you wanted to find out was about Topic A but then you get off-track by 
reading Topic B,C,D,E, etc.

  *   I'm drawn to FLIF as a modern alternative to animated GIFs., which 
depending on size and resolution can result in massive file sizes. I do not 
think that JPEG XL can serve animated content, if only be going by the lack of 
doing so for JPEG and JPEG2000. Considering device issues and internet 
connection speeds, GIFs really aren't going to cut it. I could fall back on 
APNGs, but that format doesn't have much browser support either but it may end 
up being the necessary compromise if I can't get FLIF to work correctly. The 
only player left in this small format field (AFAIK) is Google's WebP format, 
but cursory research reveals double the file size of an equivalent animated 
GIF. http://littlesvr.ca/apng/gif_apng_webp3.html You might point out to just 
use videos, but people read faster than listening to the spoken word or 
watching a video. I want to be able to serve short animations of 5-30 seconds 
of content at a time, as necessary, fronted and backed by the appropriate text 
explanation. I'm not a back-end developer so by suggesting to figure out a 
widget to make FLIF work with TW is probably the answer - not going to happen. 
=)

  *   I just saw the post about a TiddlyWiki Textbook. That's really cool and 
will try attempt to contribute only to see if that's going to work for my 
needs. In the meantime, I guess it's time for some rigorous testing. Aside from 
TiddlyWiki, I've been looking at DocuWiki and Wiki.js. I might have an open 
source webhost lined up too (where server space and bandwidth is limited - 
necessitating image compression algorithms), we'll see.


Best wishes,
Jeremi




From: tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
PMario
Sent: Monday, February 8, 2021 1:12 PM
To: TiddlyWiki 
Subject: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki for Books (Newbie Questions)

On Monday, February 8, 2021 at 3:41:48 PM UTC+1 
jbigos...@ncc.commnet.edu<mailto:jbigos...@ncc.commnet.edu> wrote:

3) How well does TW play with Javascript? I want to implement an open source 
image compression algorithm that doesn't yet have major browser support. The 
only way to use it at the moment is to wrap the image in a javascript script. 
For those interested, I want to use this: 
https://flif.info/<https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fflif.info%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cjbigosinski1%40ncc.commnet.edu%7Ca1e517ed6bd54f6810e408d8cc5d19c5%7C679df878277a496aac8dd99e58606dd9%7C0%7C0%7C637484047522016933%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=mqHxOWTDlQsek%2B2rp6eVv72qSxQsKWOhwMuMGVNlPbQ%3D&reserved=0>

TW plays well with JS, if you know how to do it. It is more advanced as adding 
a script to a static page. TW is highly interactive and the "visual elements" 
can be redrawn anytime. ... So you probably will need a new widget, that can 
deal with your image format.

FLIF will probably _never_ be supported by major browsers, since it is 
superseded by JPEG 
XL<https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fjpeg.org%2Fjpegxl%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cjbi

[tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki for Books (Newbie Questions)

[PMario]

On Monday, February 8, 2021 at 3:41:48 PM UTC+1 jbigos...@ncc.commnet.edu 
wrote:

3) How well does TW play with Javascript? I want to implement an open 
> source image compression algorithm that doesn't yet have major browser 
> support. The only way to use it at the moment is to wrap the image in a 
> javascript script. For those interested, I want to use this: 
> https://flif.info/
>

TW plays well with JS, if you know how to do it. It is more advanced as 
adding a script to a static page. TW is highly interactive and the "visual 
elements" can be redrawn anytime. ... So you probably will need a new 
widget, that can deal with your image format. 

FLIF will probably _never_ be supported by major browsers, since it is 
superseded by JPEG XL  which seems to be ISO 
standard now. According to the "tracking bugs" browsers are focusing on 
JPEG XL. 

There seems to be a FLIF browser polyfill, that can be used. ... I did play 
a little bit with the polyifll demo page. The advantage of the FLIF file 
format seems to be, that it can "partially" download the image and still 
show something. ... The polyfill seems to always download the whole file. 
.. So IMO there will be no advantage. 

The github-flif page says, that development has stopped 
. ... So for me it doesn't make too much 
sense to use this file format, except you absolutely have too. 

Is there a reason, why you want to use FLIF? ... Or is it just a "want to 
have"?

-mario

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[tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki for Books (Newbie Questions)

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

TW is just a web page powered by Javascript. Out of the box, it can't save 
to a website. So you can load it to your site just like any other web page. 
Someone could of course modify their own version, but that wouldn't save 
back to your site.

Even linear things, like books, are broken into pages and chapters and 
sections. So nothing is really linear ;-) Having the ability to search can 
be a very useful thing with an instruction manual. If it was me, I'd try 
writing a chapter to see how hard it is and whether you like the results.

TW5 does tend to keep you at arm's length from Javascript. You, or somebody 
who was interested, would have to find some way to wrap the library in a 
javascript macro or widget. How hard that is depends at least partly on 
they've written the library. In this day of cheap server space, I'm 
wondering what the point of more compression is ? Most compression routines 
I've seen that promise better compression than some existing tech end up 
only being a few percent better. 


On Monday, February 8, 2021 at 6:41:48 AM UTC-8 jbigos...@ncc.commnet.edu 
wrote:

> Hello,
> I've been looking into using TiddlyWiki to create an online instructional 
> manual. I'm not clear on three things and am wondering if someone could 
> help me:
>
> 1) When the TW is published to the web, can anyone edit it and change it 
> (a big problem for obvious reasons). I don't mind if they want to change 
> their "view" or navigation, but not the content. I saw this article: 
> http://80.56.108.132/TW5/TW5_readonly.html that makes the TW read-only. 
> Is there an easier way to lock the file with User Access Control, or more 
> blunt like with CHMOD or HTACCESS or would that break TW? For example, I 
> write up the master file on TiddlyDesktop and then upload it to the web and 
> lock it...
>
> 2) The tagline for TW is a non-linear personal notebook. I like how the 
> tiddlers operate versus other wikis and the ability to hide the "cards" 
> (tiddlers). But, as I want to use TW in a VERY linear fashion, am I making 
> more work for myself than by just using other software tools? 
>
> 3) How well does TW play with Javascript? I want to implement an open 
> source image compression algorithm that doesn't yet have major browser 
> support. The only way to use it at the moment is to wrap the image in a 
> javascript script. For those interested, I want to use this: 
> https://flif.info/
>
> Thank you,
> Jeremi
> FLIF - Free Lossless Image Format 
> FLIF - Free Lossless Image Format. FLIF is a novel lossless image format 
> which outperforms PNG, lossless WebP, lossless BPG, lossless JPEG2000, and 
> lossless JPEG XR in terms of compression ratio.
> flif.info
>
>

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[tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki for Books (Newbie Questions)

[Mat]

Welcome Jeremi

I've been looking into using TiddlyWiki to create an online instructional 
> manual
>

Shold be perfect for it.
 

> 1) When the TW is published to the web, can anyone edit it and change it 
> (a big problem for obvious reasons). 
>

Yes and no. Or I should say No and yes because it is more "no". If you use 
the standard way that TW is designed, visitors can edit it but not save 
changes to your server. But it is fairly easy to remove the editing 
possibilities e.g the "edit" button. But if you make a public wiki you'll 
not want the edit button and some other stuff to show anyway, like some of 
the sidebar stuff. So you'll have to tweak it regardless.
 

> 2) ... I want to use TW in a VERY linear fashion, am I making more work 
> for myself than by just using other software tools?
>

Hm, if you really mean "VERY" then, yeah, TW is not the thing.  But what do 
you actually mean with "VERY linear fashion"? You can easily make, say, a 
bunch of tiddlers appear as a monolithic and linear group (use transclusion 
in a wrapping tiddler). But it is not a "word document".


3) How well does TW play with Javascript? I want to implement an open 
> source image compression algorithm that ...
>

You can package the JS into and make it work. (I don't know how, but people 
do it.) But why would you do image compression in TW? If your intention is 
to *show *images in TW you should note that they are best not stored in the 
very TW file because it bloats the file and makes it slow to load. Instead 
images are stored elsewhere and shown in the TW. 

<:-)

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