Re: [time-nuts] Why these Crystal Frequencies?

[Steve .]

adding to the sub ordinate: 32.768khz is a common resonator / crystal
frequency for Real Time Clocks.  Note this is not time-nut RTC

My general rule of thumb is that anything that will cleanly divide by 2 (a
binary number) can be use for time applications with little or no work in
either hardware or software.

Steve

On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 2:37 AM, Javier Herrero wrote:

> A lot of them are derivatives of the 2.4576 UART baud rate gen:
>
>  9.8304 = 2.4576 * 4
>>
> 14.7456 = 2.4576 * 6
>
>  19.6608 = 2.4576 * 8
>>
>> 22.1184 = 2.4576 * 9
>>
>
>  24.567 = 2.4576 * 10
>>
>>  That is the reason why I've used some of them (14.7456MHz and
> 19.6608MHz) for clocking the HC11 variants with 4 and 5MHz internal clock
> (long ago... :) ).
>
> Regards,
>
> Javier
>
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Why these Crystal Frequencies?

[Javier Herrero]

A lot of them are derivatives of the 2.4576 UART baud rate gen:


9.8304 = 2.4576 * 4

14.7456 = 2.4576 * 6


19.6608 = 2.4576 * 8

22.1184 = 2.4576 * 9



24.567 = 2.4576 * 10

That is the reason why I've used some of them (14.7456MHz and 
19.6608MHz) for clocking the HC11 variants with 4 and 5MHz internal 
clock (long ago... :) ).


Regards,

Javier


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Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb

[Steve .]

Yup.  Nice binary number. jut like those old school crystals we like to see
(4.096, 8.192...etc) dare i mention 32.768 khz... ouch ;)

Steve

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 10:03 PM, Rex  wrote:

> On 12/14/2011 5:20 PM, Steve . wrote:
>
>> Looks to me like 63.8976mhz (63,897,600hz) is divisible by two. Using a
>> counter to make a clock distribution system etc. With that in mind i could
>> use this in all sorts of projects.
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>
> Hmm... 63897600 = 0x3CF. Pretty clean hex number with those low-order
> zeros. Maybe that's what you were getting at.
>
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb

[Hal Murray]

albertson.ch...@gmail.com said:
> The prime factors are 13, 3, 2, 2, 2, and lots more 2s 

There are also a couple of 5s in there.

[~]$ factor 63897600
63897600: 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 5 5 13


> There really is no reason to clock a DDS with a nice even number frequency.
> OK the even freq. makes the math easier but it's all done in software so
> "easier" does not matter.

I'll bet there are some second order considerations in there.  How about 
spurs?  If your starting frequency is "nice" relative to your target 
frequency, the spurs will be smaller and/or farther away.

--

bell.pe...@gmail.com said:
> It's exactly 52 times the 1.2288MHz reference that IS95/CDMA2K uses - this
> may be a coincidence, but I somehow doubt it. 

DDS calculations get (much) easier if you have the right clock frequency.

I'm not enough of a wizard in that area to guess why they want that number.



-- 
These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's.  I hate spam.




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Re: [time-nuts] Question.....

[Robert LaJeunesse]

If memory serves me correct that unit of measure was chosen by the Institute 
for 
High Fidelity (IHF) roughly 40 years ago as the unit to rate FM tuner 
sensitivity. The dBf unit was to replace the more common (at the time) 
microvolt 
since the dBf was a true power measument in positive whole numbers, while 
the microvolt rating was typically not "whole" and had an implied impedance 
that 
was not always stated, or met in practice. For example the Outlaw RR2150 is 
specified to have a "Usable Sensitivity IHF: 12dBf" (see: 
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/rr2150.html). Other than for better FM 
tuners I've not ever seen the dBf unit used.

Bob LaJeunesse


From: "Brian, WA1ZMS" 
To: Time-Nuts 
Sent: Wed, December 14, 2011 10:10:13 PM
Subject: [time-nuts] Question.

OK..here's a question I never found a solid answer to:

On the HP-8656A signal generators, one of the amplitude scale buttons is in
dBf.

dB relative to a femptowatt.  (ie: -120dBm)



What drove that requirement?  I have yet to see a later vintage sig gen use
that scale.





-Brian, WA1ZMS



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Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb

[Chris Albertson]

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 5:20 PM, Steve .  wrote:
> Looks to me like 63.8976mhz (63,897,600hz) is divisible by two. Using a
> counter to make a clock distribution system etc. With that in mind i could
> use this in all sorts of projects.

The prime factors are 13, 3, 2, 2, 2, and lots more 2s
So you can divide this by 2, 4, 8, 16 and so on and also by 3 and 13.
I always look at the prime factors when I see and oddball number like
this.  (There are web sites to help factor numbers)

I have one of these on order.  I'm sure it will be used one day to
clock a DDS chip.   There really is no reason to clock a DDS with a
nice even number frequency.  OK the even freq. makes the math easier
but it's all done in software so "easier" does not matter.

-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [time-nuts] Why these Crystal Frequencies?

[Peter Bell]

Ah, and I just noticed that you had the H-Maser and Rb marked wrong

On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 12:17 PM, Peter Bell  wrote:
> 11.0592MHz is another crystal used for accurate baud rates -
> especially on MCUs that had a 12MHz maximum clock (like the Intel
> 8051)
> So is 9.8304MHz - used on a number of Mototola (now Freescale) MCUs
> 17.734475 is 4 times the PAL color burst frequency of 4.433619MHz
>
> I'll see if I can think of anything else.
>
> Regards,
>
> Pete
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 11:54 AM, Brooke Clarke  wrote:
>> Hi Rex:
>>
>> Thanks, I had 14.7456 mis listed (off one row) as the 4X CB freq.  I've
>> updated the table.
>>
>>
>> Have Fun,
>>
>> Brooke Clarke
>> http://www.PRC68.com
>> http://www.end2partygovernment.com/Brooke4Congress.html
>>
>>
>> Rex wrote:
>>>
>>> Brooke,
>>>
>>> 14.31818  is 4x the analog color burst (~3.58)
>>>
>>> 18.432   divides cleanly for baud rates. I've used it as a PIC clock for
>>> that. I think some of the others may be too, but I didn't recognize or do
>>> the math to see.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/14/2011 7:13 PM, Brooke Clarke wrote:

 Hi Pete:

 Maybe you can shed some light on the common xtal frequencies table where
 there's no explanation given?
 http://www.prc68.com/I/pdf/Crystal_Freq.pdf
 An answer is not it's an "even" frequency or "it's an even binary
 frequency. That's true for most of these and the factors are part of the
 table above.
 The question is why do they exist?
 such as:
 32.0 kHz
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
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Re: [time-nuts] Why these Crystal Frequencies?

[Peter Bell]

11.0592MHz is another crystal used for accurate baud rates -
especially on MCUs that had a 12MHz maximum clock (like the Intel
8051)
So is 9.8304MHz - used on a number of Mototola (now Freescale) MCUs
17.734475 is 4 times the PAL color burst frequency of 4.433619MHz

I'll see if I can think of anything else.

Regards,

Pete



On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 11:54 AM, Brooke Clarke  wrote:
> Hi Rex:
>
> Thanks, I had 14.7456 mis listed (off one row) as the 4X CB freq.  I've
> updated the table.
>
>
> Have Fun,
>
> Brooke Clarke
> http://www.PRC68.com
> http://www.end2partygovernment.com/Brooke4Congress.html
>
>
> Rex wrote:
>>
>> Brooke,
>>
>> 14.31818  is 4x the analog color burst (~3.58)
>>
>> 18.432   divides cleanly for baud rates. I've used it as a PIC clock for
>> that. I think some of the others may be too, but I didn't recognize or do
>> the math to see.
>>
>>
>> On 12/14/2011 7:13 PM, Brooke Clarke wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Pete:
>>>
>>> Maybe you can shed some light on the common xtal frequencies table where
>>> there's no explanation given?
>>> http://www.prc68.com/I/pdf/Crystal_Freq.pdf
>>> An answer is not it's an "even" frequency or "it's an even binary
>>> frequency. That's true for most of these and the factors are part of the
>>> table above.
>>> The question is why do they exist?
>>> such as:
>>> 32.0 kHz
>>
>> ...
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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Re: [time-nuts] Why these Crystal Frequencies?

[Brooke Clarke]

Hi Rex:

Thanks, I had 14.7456 mis listed (off one row) as the 4X CB freq.  I've updated 
the table.

Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.end2partygovernment.com/Brooke4Congress.html


Rex wrote:

Brooke,

14.31818  is 4x the analog color burst (~3.58)

18.432   divides cleanly for baud rates. I've used it as a PIC clock for that. I think some of the others may be too, 
but I didn't recognize or do the math to see.



On 12/14/2011 7:13 PM, Brooke Clarke wrote:

Hi Pete:

Maybe you can shed some light on the common xtal frequencies table where 
there's no explanation given?
http://www.prc68.com/I/pdf/Crystal_Freq.pdf
An answer is not it's an "even" frequency or "it's an even binary frequency. That's true for most of these and the 
factors are part of the table above.

The question is why do they exist?
such as:
32.0 kHz

...



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Re: [time-nuts] Why these Crystal Frequencies?

[Rex]

Brooke,

14.31818  is 4x the analog color burst (~3.58)

18.432   divides cleanly for baud rates. I've used it as a PIC clock for 
that. I think some of the others may be too, but I didn't recognize or 
do the math to see.



On 12/14/2011 7:13 PM, Brooke Clarke wrote:

Hi Pete:

Maybe you can shed some light on the common xtal frequencies table 
where there's no explanation given?

http://www.prc68.com/I/pdf/Crystal_Freq.pdf
An answer is not it's an "even" frequency or "it's an even binary 
frequency. That's true for most of these and the factors are part of 
the table above.

The question is why do they exist?
such as:
32.0 kHz

...



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Re: [time-nuts] gravity controlled pendulumn clock?

[Said Jackson]

If the banks here or anywhere should start to fail in the next 6 months or so 
it is beneficial to know that a Krugerrand is an ounce of gold which should buy 
more than enough food for a month for a family, and that an MOA is a little 
more than an inch at 100 yards (or 93 some odd meters if you prefer), and what 
150 grains at 2700ft/s can do...

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 14, 2011, at 14:25, Jim Lux  wrote:

> On 12/14/11 12:44 PM, Justin Pinnix wrote:
>> Contrary to popular belief, most of us in the U.S. have heard of the metric
>> system and understand how it works.  Personally, I agree that it is a
>> simpler and superior system.
>> 
>> But, English is the system we "think" in.  We know that if a person is 300
>> lbs they need to lose weight, you need to drink 8 cups of water a day, and
>> wish for 70 degree days.  Grandma's cookie recipe uses 1 cup of flour.
>>  Trying to convince 300 million people to re-learn all of that is a tough
>> sell when there is no obvious advantage to them.  Most are not scientists
>> or engineers and aren't likely to do business with a foreign country.
>> 
> 
> 
> Based on practical experience (moving to another country several times over 
> the years), the disruption in day to day life is minimal.  Pretty soon, you 
> ask for a half or third kilo of cheese instead of a pound. You know that 10 
> degrees is cool, chilly in the shade, 20 degrees is nice, 30 degrees is 
> pleasantly warm, and 40 is hot.  -20 is where spit goes clink.
> 
> A yard and a meter are about the same, so if you're buying fabric or rope or 
> wire that works out pretty well.
> 
> A square meter is about 10 square feet, so if you're looking at apartments, 
> 40 sq m is smallish, 200 is palatial.
> 
> People by gasoline by money amounts (or "fill it up").  Back when gas started 
> to go over $1/gallon, some stations changed their pump to read in liters, and 
> it was only moderately inconvenient, and after a while you get used to it.
> 
> I think if we did the "massive cutover" there would be whining and 
> complaining for about a month or two.
> 
> In a year, all the recipes would be printed in metric, except for books 
> specializing in archaic styles.. but those exist today.. my wife has screwed 
> up more than once using a recipe originating from her (English) mother or 
> grandmother.
> 
> If you buy a graduated measuring cup today it likely has both metric and US 
> Customary units on it.  Yes, you need to know that a teaspoon is 5ml and 
> tablespoon is 15ml, but that's not exactly an ordeal.
> 
> 
> The tricky thing is manufacturing and customary sizes.  That 1/4-20 bolt has 
> a long and enduring history and we'll be making them for decades to come.  
> But over 10-20 years, instead of bolt bins at the local hardware store having 
> mostly customary units with a smaller section for metric, we'll have more 
> metric, with a smaller section for customary.
> 
> Most folks have both sets of wrenches and hex keys, etc.  (or, they just use 
> the adjustable wrench or those ChannelLok serrated pliers, so they can rip 
> the corners off any nut, metric or US)
> 
> 
>> Those of us who are scientists and engineers likely use metric at work and
>> English at home.  Is that wrong?  Maybe, but we're smart people and we can
>> deal with it :-)
>> 
>> It's not like metric is totally absent.  We drink 2 liter cokes and defend
>> ourselves with 9mm pistols.   Our cars use mostly metric parts.  Even ham
>> radio operators, arguably the most jingoistic and set in the past bunch
>> around, get on the 80, 40, and 20 METER bands.
>> 
>> Furthermore, I've been to some of these countries that supposedly use the
>> metric system.  One of them measured distance between cities in km and
>> speed limits in MPH.  Now THAT was annoying!
>> 
>> "Progressives" tried to force Metric on the U.S. in the 1970s and it didn't
>> catch on.  Besides, we've got bigger standardization problems to deal with
>> these days - getting everyone here to speak English!
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
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[time-nuts] Why these Crystal Frequencies?

[Brooke Clarke]

Hi Pete:

Maybe you can shed some light on the common xtal frequencies table where 
there's no explanation given?
http://www.prc68.com/I/pdf/Crystal_Freq.pdf
An answer is not it's an "even" frequency or "it's an even binary frequency. That's true for most of these and the 
factors are part of the table above.

The question is why do they exist?
such as:
32.0 kHz
40.0
75.0
76.79
76.8
76.81
96.0
3.072 MHz
4.0
4.096
5.0
6.0
7.3729
8.0
8.192
9.8304
10.0
11.0
11.0592
11.2896
12.0
12.288
12.352
13.5
14.31818
15.36
16.0
16.384
17.734475
18.0
18.432
19.6608
19.44
22.1184
24.0
24.567
25.0
25.175
28.63636
30.0
1.4204058 GHz

Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.end2partygovernment.com/Brooke4Congress.html


Peter Bell wrote:

It's exactly 52 times the 1.2288MHz reference that IS95/CDMA2K uses -
this may be a coincidence, but I somehow doubt it.

Regards,

Pete


On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 3:46 AM, Joe Leikhim  wrote:

I have been watching this thread and may have missed something. My
questions: What is the purpose of the outboard OCXO VECTRON 63.8976Mhz? What
model number does this RB most closely resemble?

--
Joe Leikhim

Leikhim and Associates
Communications Consultants
Oviedo, Florida

www.Leikhim.com

jleik...@leikhim.com

407-982-0446

Note to GMail Account users. Due to an abnormally high volume of spam
originating from bogus GMail accounts, I have found it necessary to block
certain GMail traffic. Please phone me if you believe your message was not
received.


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[time-nuts] Question.....

[Brian, WA1ZMS]

OK..here's a question I never found a solid answer to:

On the HP-8656A signal generators, one of the amplitude scale buttons is in
dBf.

dB relative to a femptowatt.  (ie: -120dBm)

 

What drove that requirement?   I have yet to see a later vintage sig gen use
that scale.

 

 

-Brian, WA1ZMS

 

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Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb

[Rex]

On 12/14/2011 5:20 PM, Steve . wrote:

Looks to me like 63.8976mhz (63,897,600hz) is divisible by two. Using a
counter to make a clock distribution system etc. With that in mind i could
use this in all sorts of projects.


Steve


Hmm... 63897600 = 0x3CF. Pretty clean hex number with those 
low-order zeros. Maybe that's what you were getting at.



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Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb

[Peter Bell]

It's exactly 52 times the 1.2288MHz reference that IS95/CDMA2K uses -
this may be a coincidence, but I somehow doubt it.

Regards,

Pete


On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 3:46 AM, Joe Leikhim  wrote:
> I have been watching this thread and may have missed something. My
> questions: What is the purpose of the outboard OCXO VECTRON 63.8976Mhz? What
> model number does this RB most closely resemble?
>
> --
> Joe Leikhim
>
> Leikhim and Associates
> Communications Consultants
> Oviedo, Florida
>
> www.Leikhim.com
>
> jleik...@leikhim.com
>
> 407-982-0446
>
> Note to GMail Account users. Due to an abnormally high volume of spam
> originating from bogus GMail accounts, I have found it necessary to block
> certain GMail traffic. Please phone me if you believe your message was not
> received.
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] PCMCIA Jewel Cases

[lists]

The only PCMCIA cards I've found useful are soundcards and Socketcom serial 
cards. 

Some program that decode scanner demod taps use the 8 bit mode found in older 
style sound standards that are missing in intel high def. 

Some Socketcom serial cards work in DOS. 

-Original Message-
From: "Steve ." 
Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 20:11:18 
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement

Subject: Re: [time-nuts] PCMCIA Jewel Cases

Not so many cases, But i have all sorts of PCMCIA cards, tried selling them
on ebay a while ago but they are not worth anything.

Modem, Lan, Wifi, Serial, some flash. etc. If someone is looking for a card
contact me off list. You won't be the price (free + shipping)

I probably have 500, maybe more.
Steve

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 7:08 PM, Azelio Boriani wrote:

> I have literally tons of (and they are free), I think the only problem is
> to ship them from Italy. At work they are throwing away hundreds of them.
> Actually I have here at home 15-20 pieces.
>
> On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 12:55 AM, J. Forster  wrote:
>
> > Does anybody have extra, or have a source for, the jewel cases for
> storing
> > PCMCIA cards? I could use 2-5.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > -John
> >
> > ==
> >
> >
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Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb

[Robert Darlington]

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Rex  wrote:

> I don't think the strange oscillator is part of the Rb board.
>

That's correct.   The OCXO is a brand new part that is thrown in and has
nothing to do with the board the Rb is on.  Same for the DE-9 connector.  I
can use the connector but the OCXO is not useful to me at all.   I did wire
it up though and my counter verified what the sticker says.   3.3 volts in
according to the data sheet in the auction listing, however the data sheet
is for a different part.  Close enough, I guess.

-Bob



>
> I have a full board from a purchase a number of years back. There are no
> gold fingers; it has a big square multi-pin connector. The board is 20
> inches long and has only a few interfacing chips on it and a LED. I'd say
> the board is cut just as the most expedient way to get something small
> enough to practically ship and store.
>
> About 2/3 of the board had heavy plating on both sides as a heatsink, so
> that was one of the functions it performed.
>
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb

[Steve .]

Looks to me like 63.8976mhz (63,897,600hz) is divisible by two. Using a
counter to make a clock distribution system etc. With that in mind i could
use this in all sorts of projects.


Steve
On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 7:02 PM, Pete Lancashire wrote:

> I use to have a reference to frequencies used by the different cell
> systems. That's my
> call .. and I can't think of another industry that just like the
> Thunderbolts that when it
> does a refresh or a fix from a design oh-shit dumps so many of the same
> thing.
>
> I just read US Patent 6,282,184 "Common Digitizing Rate for Multiple
> Air Interfaces
> for Generic Cell Sites in Cellular Radio" .. it mentions it.as a base
> frequency (11.37)
>
> -pete
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:44 PM, Azelio Boriani
>  wrote:
> > The 63.8976MHz frequency seems to be related to the OFDM frame of the
> WiMAX
> > standard that has a window of 62400 bytes and the 63.8976MHz can time
> WiMAX
> > BaseStations with only powers-of-2 dividers.
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:24 PM, paul swed  wrote:
> >
> >> Could be but as a timenut not real magical to me either.
> >> Regards
> >> Paul
> >>
> >> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Javier Herrero  >> >wrote:
> >>
> >> > I'm begin getting curious... having already received that OCXO, and
> with
> >> a
> >> > 2nd unit arriving... I've googled the frequency and there are about a
> >> > zillion cristals and oscillators for that frequency from a ton of
> >> different
> >> > manufacturers, and seems that the frequency is patented: US patent
> >> 6282184
> >> > (well, I suppose that not exactly the frequency is what it is
> patented,
> >> > but...):
> >> >
> >> > " The digitizing rate of the A-D converter 41 preferably set for this
> >> > example to 63.8976 MHz is carefully selected, as described in detail
> >> below,
> >> > to eliminate the need for additional expensive and complex signal
> >> filtering
> >> > and shielding that would otherwise be required in the RX channelizer
> >> banks
> >> > 7, 8, 9 for simultaneously processing the digitized signal received by
> >> the
> >> > A-D converter 41 at the common digitizing rate based on their
> respective
> >> > CDMA, TDMA and GSM requirements "
> >> >
> >> > So... this seems to be the magic about this frequency (and the reason
> >> that
> >> > these sellers has enough of them for sameless give them away)
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> >
> >> > Javier
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > El 14/12/2011 22:41, Pete Lancashire escribió:
> >> >
> >> >> I'd agree. If you google the frequency there is a lot of surplus out
> >> >> there and unless
> >> >> you building your own cell system I can't think of any use .. yet :-)
> >> >>
> >> >> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:53 AM, Chuck Harris
> >> >>  wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> I would say that he has a gadzillion of the OCXO's, recognizes that
> the
> >> >>> frequency
> >> >>> is useless, and would rather give them away, generating a little
> >> >>> synthetic
> >> >>> good will,
> >> >>> than scrap them.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> -Chuck Harris
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Joe Leikhim wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> 
> >>  I have been watching this thread and may have missed something. My
> >>  questions: What is
> >>  the purpose of the outboard OCXO VECTRON 63.8976Mhz? What model
> number
> >>  does this RB
> >>  most closely resemble?
> >> 
> >> 
> >> >>> __**_
> >> >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> >> >>> To unsubscribe, go to
> >> >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/**mailman/listinfo/time-nuts<
> >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts>
> >> >>> and follow the instructions there.
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >> __**_
> >> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> >> >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/**
> >> >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts<
> >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts>
> >> >> and follow the instructions there.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> > __**_
> >> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> >> > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/**
> >> > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts<
> >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts>
> >> > and follow the instructions there.
> >> >
> >> ___
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> >> and follow the instructions there.
> >>
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Re: [time-nuts] Best way to...?

[Robert Darlington]

I didn't feel like digging for an allen key so I just drilled from the back
side of the board.  I didn't go all the way through.  It was just enough to
remove the nut or anchor that was attached to the PCB.   It took about 1
minute.

-Bob

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Don Latham  wrote:

> I just checked: it's a 1/16 in. hex wrench ( not metric.) They've been
> driven in hard, don't give up...
> Don
>
> gandal...@aol.com
> > In a message dated 14/12/2011 21:41:13 GMT Standard Time,
> > kyr...@bluefeathertech.com writes:
> >
> > What's the best way folks have found to remove the Ebay special  5680's
> > from the hunk of PC board they're rivited to on  arrival?
> > Alan/Hex key, what look like rivets are screws  :-)
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to
> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
>
>
> --
> "Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument
> are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind."
> R. Bacon
> "If you don't know what it is, don't poke it."
> Ghost in the Shell
>
>
> Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
> Six Mile Systems LLP
> 17850 Six Mile Road
> POB 134
> Huson, MT, 59846
> VOX 406-626-4304
> www.lightningforensics.com
> www.sixmilesystems.com
>
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] PCMCIA Jewel Cases

[Steve .]

Not so many cases, But i have all sorts of PCMCIA cards, tried selling them
on ebay a while ago but they are not worth anything.

Modem, Lan, Wifi, Serial, some flash. etc. If someone is looking for a card
contact me off list. You won't be the price (free + shipping)

I probably have 500, maybe more.
Steve

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 7:08 PM, Azelio Boriani wrote:

> I have literally tons of (and they are free), I think the only problem is
> to ship them from Italy. At work they are throwing away hundreds of them.
> Actually I have here at home 15-20 pieces.
>
> On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 12:55 AM, J. Forster  wrote:
>
> > Does anybody have extra, or have a source for, the jewel cases for
> storing
> > PCMCIA cards? I could use 2-5.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > -John
> >
> > ==
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > To unsubscribe, go to
> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
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[time-nuts] 63.8976 OCXO is useful

[Murray Greenman]

Hi,

I can think of at least one excellent use for the unwanted 63.8976MHz OCXO
that comes free with some of the recently offered FE-5680A units.

It would make a great reference for a DDS synthesizer, such as an
AD9852/AD9854. These chips have a 4x reference multiplier capability, and
thus would provide a clock at ~256MHz.

How useful it would be to have a DDS synthesized signal generator with
sub-milliHz steps, low phase noise, controllable phase and output level,
and 0 - 100MHz output capability!

73,
Murray ZL1BPU



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Re: [time-nuts] PCMCIA Jewel Cases

[Azelio Boriani]

I have literally tons of (and they are free), I think the only problem is
to ship them from Italy. At work they are throwing away hundreds of them.
Actually I have here at home 15-20 pieces.

On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 12:55 AM, J. Forster  wrote:

> Does anybody have extra, or have a source for, the jewel cases for storing
> PCMCIA cards? I could use 2-5.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -John
>
> ==
>
>
> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb

[Pete Lancashire]

I use to have a reference to frequencies used by the different cell
systems. That's my
call .. and I can't think of another industry that just like the
Thunderbolts that when it
does a refresh or a fix from a design oh-shit dumps so many of the same thing.

I just read US Patent 6,282,184 "Common Digitizing Rate for Multiple
Air Interfaces
for Generic Cell Sites in Cellular Radio" .. it mentions it.as a base
frequency (11.37)

-pete

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:44 PM, Azelio Boriani
 wrote:
> The 63.8976MHz frequency seems to be related to the OFDM frame of the WiMAX
> standard that has a window of 62400 bytes and the 63.8976MHz can time WiMAX
> BaseStations with only powers-of-2 dividers.
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:24 PM, paul swed  wrote:
>
>> Could be but as a timenut not real magical to me either.
>> Regards
>> Paul
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Javier Herrero > >wrote:
>>
>> > I'm begin getting curious... having already received that OCXO, and with
>> a
>> > 2nd unit arriving... I've googled the frequency and there are about a
>> > zillion cristals and oscillators for that frequency from a ton of
>> different
>> > manufacturers, and seems that the frequency is patented: US patent
>> 6282184
>> > (well, I suppose that not exactly the frequency is what it is patented,
>> > but...):
>> >
>> > " The digitizing rate of the A-D converter 41 preferably set for this
>> > example to 63.8976 MHz is carefully selected, as described in detail
>> below,
>> > to eliminate the need for additional expensive and complex signal
>> filtering
>> > and shielding that would otherwise be required in the RX channelizer
>> banks
>> > 7, 8, 9 for simultaneously processing the digitized signal received by
>> the
>> > A-D converter 41 at the common digitizing rate based on their respective
>> > CDMA, TDMA and GSM requirements "
>> >
>> > So... this seems to be the magic about this frequency (and the reason
>> that
>> > these sellers has enough of them for sameless give them away)
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Javier
>> >
>> >
>> > El 14/12/2011 22:41, Pete Lancashire escribió:
>> >
>> >> I'd agree. If you google the frequency there is a lot of surplus out
>> >> there and unless
>> >> you building your own cell system I can't think of any use .. yet :-)
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:53 AM, Chuck Harris
>> >>  wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> I would say that he has a gadzillion of the OCXO's, recognizes that the
>> >>> frequency
>> >>> is useless, and would rather give them away, generating a little
>> >>> synthetic
>> >>> good will,
>> >>> than scrap them.
>> >>>
>> >>> -Chuck Harris
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Joe Leikhim wrote:
>> >>>
>> 
>>  I have been watching this thread and may have missed something. My
>>  questions: What is
>>  the purpose of the outboard OCXO VECTRON 63.8976Mhz? What model number
>>  does this RB
>>  most closely resemble?
>> 
>> 
>> >>> __**_
>> >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> >>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/**mailman/listinfo/time-nuts<
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts>
>> >>> and follow the instructions there.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> __**_
>> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/**
>> >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts<
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts>
>> >> and follow the instructions there.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> > __**_
>> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/**
>> > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts<
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts>
>> > and follow the instructions there.
>> >
>> ___
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>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
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[time-nuts] PCMCIA Jewel Cases

[J. Forster]

Does anybody have extra, or have a source for, the jewel cases for storing
PCMCIA cards? I could use 2-5.

Thanks,

-John

==


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Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb

[Rex]

I don't think the strange oscillator is part of the Rb board.

I have a full board from a purchase a number of years back. There are no 
gold fingers; it has a big square multi-pin connector. The board is 20 
inches long and has only a few interfacing chips on it and a LED. I'd 
say the board is cut just as the most expedient way to get something 
small enough to practically ship and store.


About 2/3 of the board had heavy plating on both sides as a heatsink, so 
that was one of the functions it performed.




On 12/14/2011 12:24 PM, paul swed wrote:

Sure its one seller or his family. Notice the stratum of pricing and such.
What they are saving is the effort to remove the useless oscillator.
Most likely they get the board cut off already. Or could it be? The boards
cut that way because the gold fingers were pulled off for recovery.
Its all about min effort for max reward. Margin I think.




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Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb

[Azelio Boriani]

The 63.8976MHz frequency seems to be related to the OFDM frame of the WiMAX
standard that has a window of 62400 bytes and the 63.8976MHz can time WiMAX
BaseStations with only powers-of-2 dividers.

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:24 PM, paul swed  wrote:

> Could be but as a timenut not real magical to me either.
> Regards
> Paul
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Javier Herrero  >wrote:
>
> > I'm begin getting curious... having already received that OCXO, and with
> a
> > 2nd unit arriving... I've googled the frequency and there are about a
> > zillion cristals and oscillators for that frequency from a ton of
> different
> > manufacturers, and seems that the frequency is patented: US patent
> 6282184
> > (well, I suppose that not exactly the frequency is what it is patented,
> > but...):
> >
> > " The digitizing rate of the A-D converter 41 preferably set for this
> > example to 63.8976 MHz is carefully selected, as described in detail
> below,
> > to eliminate the need for additional expensive and complex signal
> filtering
> > and shielding that would otherwise be required in the RX channelizer
> banks
> > 7, 8, 9 for simultaneously processing the digitized signal received by
> the
> > A-D converter 41 at the common digitizing rate based on their respective
> > CDMA, TDMA and GSM requirements "
> >
> > So... this seems to be the magic about this frequency (and the reason
> that
> > these sellers has enough of them for sameless give them away)
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Javier
> >
> >
> > El 14/12/2011 22:41, Pete Lancashire escribió:
> >
> >> I'd agree. If you google the frequency there is a lot of surplus out
> >> there and unless
> >> you building your own cell system I can't think of any use .. yet :-)
> >>
> >> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:53 AM, Chuck Harris
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >>> I would say that he has a gadzillion of the OCXO's, recognizes that the
> >>> frequency
> >>> is useless, and would rather give them away, generating a little
> >>> synthetic
> >>> good will,
> >>> than scrap them.
> >>>
> >>> -Chuck Harris
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Joe Leikhim wrote:
> >>>
> 
>  I have been watching this thread and may have missed something. My
>  questions: What is
>  the purpose of the outboard OCXO VECTRON 63.8976Mhz? What model number
>  does this RB
>  most closely resemble?
> 
> 
> >>> __**_
> >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> >>> To unsubscribe, go to
> >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/**mailman/listinfo/time-nuts<
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts>
> >>> and follow the instructions there.
> >>>
> >>
> >> __**_
> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/**
> >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts<
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts>
> >> and follow the instructions there.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > __**_
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/**
> > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts<
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts>
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
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Re: [time-nuts] gravity controlled pendulumn clock?

[Jim Lux]

On 12/14/11 12:44 PM, Justin Pinnix wrote:

Contrary to popular belief, most of us in the U.S. have heard of the metric
system and understand how it works.  Personally, I agree that it is a
simpler and superior system.

But, English is the system we "think" in.  We know that if a person is 300
lbs they need to lose weight, you need to drink 8 cups of water a day, and
wish for 70 degree days.  Grandma's cookie recipe uses 1 cup of flour.
  Trying to convince 300 million people to re-learn all of that is a tough
sell when there is no obvious advantage to them.  Most are not scientists
or engineers and aren't likely to do business with a foreign country.




Based on practical experience (moving to another country several times 
over the years), the disruption in day to day life is minimal.  Pretty 
soon, you ask for a half or third kilo of cheese instead of a pound. 
You know that 10 degrees is cool, chilly in the shade, 20 degrees is 
nice, 30 degrees is pleasantly warm, and 40 is hot.  -20 is where spit 
goes clink.


A yard and a meter are about the same, so if you're buying fabric or 
rope or wire that works out pretty well.


A square meter is about 10 square feet, so if you're looking at 
apartments, 40 sq m is smallish, 200 is palatial.


People by gasoline by money amounts (or "fill it up").  Back when gas 
started to go over $1/gallon, some stations changed their pump to read 
in liters, and it was only moderately inconvenient, and after a while 
you get used to it.


I think if we did the "massive cutover" there would be whining and 
complaining for about a month or two.


In a year, all the recipes would be printed in metric, except for books 
specializing in archaic styles.. but those exist today.. my wife has 
screwed up more than once using a recipe originating from her (English) 
mother or grandmother.


If you buy a graduated measuring cup today it likely has both metric and 
US Customary units on it.  Yes, you need to know that a teaspoon is 5ml 
and tablespoon is 15ml, but that's not exactly an ordeal.



The tricky thing is manufacturing and customary sizes.  That 1/4-20 bolt 
has a long and enduring history and we'll be making them for decades to 
come.  But over 10-20 years, instead of bolt bins at the local hardware 
store having mostly customary units with a smaller section for metric, 
we'll have more metric, with a smaller section for customary.


Most folks have both sets of wrenches and hex keys, etc.  (or, they just 
use the adjustable wrench or those ChannelLok serrated pliers, so they 
can rip the corners off any nut, metric or US)




Those of us who are scientists and engineers likely use metric at work and
English at home.  Is that wrong?  Maybe, but we're smart people and we can
deal with it :-)

It's not like metric is totally absent.  We drink 2 liter cokes and defend
ourselves with 9mm pistols.   Our cars use mostly metric parts.  Even ham
radio operators, arguably the most jingoistic and set in the past bunch
around, get on the 80, 40, and 20 METER bands.

Furthermore, I've been to some of these countries that supposedly use the
metric system.  One of them measured distance between cities in km and
speed limits in MPH.  Now THAT was annoying!

"Progressives" tried to force Metric on the U.S. in the 1970s and it didn't
catch on.  Besides, we've got bigger standardization problems to deal with
these days - getting everyone here to speak English!





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Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb

[paul swed]

Could be but as a timenut not real magical to me either.
Regards
Paul

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Javier Herrero wrote:

> I'm begin getting curious... having already received that OCXO, and with a
> 2nd unit arriving... I've googled the frequency and there are about a
> zillion cristals and oscillators for that frequency from a ton of different
> manufacturers, and seems that the frequency is patented: US patent 6282184
> (well, I suppose that not exactly the frequency is what it is patented,
> but...):
>
> " The digitizing rate of the A-D converter 41 preferably set for this
> example to 63.8976 MHz is carefully selected, as described in detail below,
> to eliminate the need for additional expensive and complex signal filtering
> and shielding that would otherwise be required in the RX channelizer banks
> 7, 8, 9 for simultaneously processing the digitized signal received by the
> A-D converter 41 at the common digitizing rate based on their respective
> CDMA, TDMA and GSM requirements "
>
> So... this seems to be the magic about this frequency (and the reason that
> these sellers has enough of them for sameless give them away)
>
> Regards,
>
> Javier
>
>
> El 14/12/2011 22:41, Pete Lancashire escribió:
>
>> I'd agree. If you google the frequency there is a lot of surplus out
>> there and unless
>> you building your own cell system I can't think of any use .. yet :-)
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:53 AM, Chuck Harris
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> I would say that he has a gadzillion of the OCXO's, recognizes that the
>>> frequency
>>> is useless, and would rather give them away, generating a little
>>> synthetic
>>> good will,
>>> than scrap them.
>>>
>>> -Chuck Harris
>>>
>>>
>>> Joe Leikhim wrote:
>>>

 I have been watching this thread and may have missed something. My
 questions: What is
 the purpose of the outboard OCXO VECTRON 63.8976Mhz? What model number
 does this RB
 most closely resemble?


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>>
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Re: [time-nuts] gravity controlled pendulumn clock?

[Jim Lux]

On 12/14/11 12:59 PM, Jim Palfreyman wrote:


A cubic metre holds 1000 litres (exactly) and a 10x10x10 cm container holds
a litre (exactly). A litre of water weighs 1kg, A ml of water weight 1
gram. (Fantastic for cooking btw - use digital scales, put your bowl on
them, zero it and add, say, 250g of milk/water/most liquids)

And if you want a laugh go youtube "American Chopper metric system" and
watch that short video. It is the final conclusive proof why metric is
superior.



As my daughter said... "Curse those Babylonians and their reliance on 
fractions"


(this is why they make calculators that do fractions.. for kitchen and 
shop use  Those recipes that call for 1 cup and 1 tablespoon of 
something, and you're making a 1/2 recipe or something.


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Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb

[Javier Herrero]

I'm begin getting curious... having already received that OCXO, and with 
a 2nd unit arriving... I've googled the frequency and there are about a 
zillion cristals and oscillators for that frequency from a ton of 
different manufacturers, and seems that the frequency is patented: US 
patent 6282184 (well, I suppose that not exactly the frequency is what 
it is patented, but...):


" The digitizing rate of the A-D converter 41 preferably set for this 
example to 63.8976 MHz is carefully selected, as described in detail 
below, to eliminate the need for additional expensive and complex signal 
filtering and shielding that would otherwise be required in the RX 
channelizer banks 7, 8, 9 for simultaneously processing the digitized 
signal received by the A-D converter 41 at the common digitizing rate 
based on their respective CDMA, TDMA and GSM requirements "


So... this seems to be the magic about this frequency (and the reason 
that these sellers has enough of them for sameless give them away)


Regards,

Javier


El 14/12/2011 22:41, Pete Lancashire escribió:

I'd agree. If you google the frequency there is a lot of surplus out
there and unless
you building your own cell system I can't think of any use .. yet :-)

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:53 AM, Chuck Harris  wrote:

I would say that he has a gadzillion of the OCXO's, recognizes that the
frequency
is useless, and would rather give them away, generating a little synthetic
good will,
than scrap them.

-Chuck Harris


Joe Leikhim wrote:


I have been watching this thread and may have missed something. My
questions: What is
the purpose of the outboard OCXO VECTRON 63.8976Mhz? What model number
does this RB
most closely resemble?



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Re: [time-nuts] Software for Tektronix FCA3100 Counter -- AKA Pendulum CNT91

[Azelio Boriani]

I have the Fluke PM6681: it has no talk-only function on the GPIB port. If
the CNT81 has the same software then TimeLab can't get data from the
CNT81/PM6681. Anyway I can write a logging software (for free, of course)
to grab data so that you can post-process it with whatever you want (I use
matlab). The problem will be the GPIB interface: I use the Agilent
82357B/E5810A and Tektronix AD007 so my software requires IOAgilent suite
or TekVISA or I can send source files in C to compile in your system.

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 5:03 PM,  wrote:

> Hi Stan
>
> Unfortunately I can't answer your question, I'm having trouble enough with
> my own:-), but I have got a copy of 0v979 so will forward that  direct in
> case you want to try it.
>
> Regards
>
> Niogel
> GM8PZR
>
> ---
>
>
> In a message dated 14/12/2011 14:57:08 GMT Standard Time,
> swp...@earthlink.net writes:
>
> Hi Nigel  and Magnus,
>
> Do you know whether TimeLab will work with the CNT81  counter? If so, is
> Version 0.979 still available  anywhere?
>
> Thanks,
> Stan
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Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb

[Jim Lux]

On 12/14/11 12:15 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:46 AM, Joe Leikhim  wrote:

I have been watching this thread and may have missed something. My
questions: What is the purpose of the outboard OCXO VECTRON 63.8976Mhz? What
model number does this RB most closely resemble?


I can understand one seller just tossing in a useless 63.8976Mhz part
but notice the EVERY seler is tossing in the same 63.8976Mhz part.
This tells me tha one of two things is going on:

(1) threre really is only one seller and he is using multiple eBay acounts or
(2) there is one supplier who is provides these kits in bulk to
several people who then resell the kits on ebay.  The people who are
selling may not even know the  63.8976Mhz part is useless.

Also notice the photo that shows "my lab" and has the stack of test
equipment is exactly the same photo in a dozen eBay accounts.

My guess about all of this:  One person is selling a "get rich quick"
scheme to others.   He sets you up then sells you bulk items with
pre-written English language descriptions and photo.   Likely he is
also the person who buys the old cell towers and dismantles the parts
  Why else are all the eBay stores so identical?



Not necessarily a get rich quick.  Just the usual wholesale/retail 
distinction. The actual source isn't interested in dealing with hundreds 
of individual customers at least some of which will have issues.


There may also be some sort of gaming the eBay system going on.  Maybe 
small sellers get a discount on seller fees or some such.. I don't know 
enough about how eBay works to really comment.


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Re: [time-nuts] Best way to...?

[Don Latham]

I just checked: it's a 1/16 in. hex wrench ( not metric.) They've been
driven in hard, don't give up...
Don

gandal...@aol.com
> In a message dated 14/12/2011 21:41:13 GMT Standard Time,
> kyr...@bluefeathertech.com writes:
>
> What's the best way folks have found to remove the Ebay special  5680's
> from the hunk of PC board they're rivited to on  arrival?
> Alan/Hex key, what look like rivets are screws  :-)
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>


-- 
"Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument
are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind."
R. Bacon
"If you don't know what it is, don't poke it."
Ghost in the Shell


Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
Six Mile Systems LLP
17850 Six Mile Road
POB 134
Huson, MT, 59846
VOX 406-626-4304
www.lightningforensics.com
www.sixmilesystems.com



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Re: [time-nuts] Best way to...?

[Don Latham]

These are small self-tapping hollow Allen screws. Find the right size
Allen L-shaped wrench and have at it...
Don

Bruce Lane
> Hi, gang,
>
>   What's the best way folks have found to remove the Ebay special 5680's
> from the hunk of PC board they're rivited to on arrival?
>
>   On a related note: Any speculation on whether an SMA connector could be
> added to accommodate the 10MHz output? I seem to recall the 5680's have
> an internal connector for such, and it just takes a jumper to bring it
> out.
>
>   Thanks much.
>
>
> Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy,
> Blue Feather Technologies (http://www.bluefeathertech.com)
> Assoc. member, AZA & AAZK for many moons.
> "Salvadore Dali's computer has surreal ports..."
>
>
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> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>


-- 
"Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument
are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind."
R. Bacon
"If you don't know what it is, don't poke it."
Ghost in the Shell


Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
Six Mile Systems LLP
17850 Six Mile Road
POB 134
Huson, MT, 59846
VOX 406-626-4304
www.lightningforensics.com
www.sixmilesystems.com



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Re: [time-nuts] Best way to...?

[GandalfG8]

In a message dated 14/12/2011 21:41:13 GMT Standard Time,  
kyr...@bluefeathertech.com writes:

What's the best way folks have found to remove the Ebay special  5680's
from the hunk of PC board they're rivited to on  arrival?
Alan/Hex key, what look like rivets are screws  :-)
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Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb

[Pete Lancashire]

I'd agree. If you google the frequency there is a lot of surplus out
there and unless
you building your own cell system I can't think of any use .. yet :-)

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:53 AM, Chuck Harris  wrote:
> I would say that he has a gadzillion of the OCXO's, recognizes that the
> frequency
> is useless, and would rather give them away, generating a little synthetic
> good will,
> than scrap them.
>
> -Chuck Harris
>
>
> Joe Leikhim wrote:
>>
>> I have been watching this thread and may have missed something. My
>> questions: What is
>> the purpose of the outboard OCXO VECTRON 63.8976Mhz? What model number
>> does this RB
>> most closely resemble?
>>
>
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[time-nuts] Best way to...?

[Bruce Lane]

Hi, gang,

What's the best way folks have found to remove the Ebay special 5680's
from the hunk of PC board they're rivited to on arrival?

On a related note: Any speculation on whether an SMA connector could be
added to accommodate the 10MHz output? I seem to recall the 5680's have
an internal connector for such, and it just takes a jumper to bring it
out.

Thanks much.


Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy,
Blue Feather Technologies (http://www.bluefeathertech.com)
Assoc. member, AZA & AAZK for many moons.
"Salvadore Dali's computer has surreal ports..."


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Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb

[paul swed]

heck yes and its pretty good deal from what the folks on the list say.
I just missed the $38 special with shipping
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 3:48 PM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R
wrote:

> So the only item of interest is the Rb module itself?
>
> Brings back memories of strange merchandise at Burnstein-Applebee.
>
> On 12/14/2011 12:24 PM, paul swed wrote:
>
>> Sure its one seller or his family. Notice the stratum of pricing and such.
>> What they are saving is the effort to remove the useless oscillator.
>> Most likely they get the board cut off already. Or could it be? The boards
>> cut that way because the gold fingers were pulled off for recovery.
>> Its all about min effort for max reward. Margin I think.
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Chris Albertson
>> **wrote:
>>
>>  On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:46 AM, Joe Leikhim
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I have been watching this thread and may have missed something. My
 questions: What is the purpose of the outboard OCXO VECTRON 63.8976Mhz?

>>> What
>>>
 model number does this RB most closely resemble?

>>> I can understand one seller just tossing in a useless 63.8976Mhz part
>>> but notice the EVERY seler is tossing in the same 63.8976Mhz part.
>>> This tells me tha one of two things is going on:
>>>
>>> (1) threre really is only one seller and he is using multiple eBay
>>> acounts
>>> or
>>> (2) there is one supplier who is provides these kits in bulk to
>>> several people who then resell the kits on ebay.  The people who are
>>> selling may not even know the  63.8976Mhz part is useless.
>>>
>>> Also notice the photo that shows "my lab" and has the stack of test
>>> equipment is exactly the same photo in a dozen eBay accounts.
>>>
>>> My guess about all of this:  One person is selling a "get rich quick"
>>> scheme to others.   He sets you up then sells you bulk items with
>>> pre-written English language descriptions and photo.   Likely he is
>>> also the person who buys the old cell towers and dismantles the parts
>>>  Why else are all the eBay stores so identical?
>>> --
>>>
>>> Chris Albertson
>>> Redondo Beach, California
>>>
>>> __**_
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>>>
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>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
>>
> --
> Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
> Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
>  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
> 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430
>
>
> __**_
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>
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Re: [time-nuts] Noob question on measuring Allan Deviation on 10 MHz source

[John Ackermann N8UR]

Hi George --

You can feed frequency data into Stable32, but the documentation doesn't 
clearly explain that you need to scale the readings into fractional 
frequency using the scaling function in the File/Open dialog.  To get 
fractional frequency, you divide the results by the nominal frequency, 
except that the scaling model in the Stable32 input box allows 
multiplication only.


So, for a nominal 10 MHz (or 1e7 Hz) source where the data is in Hz 
format (10,000,000.xxx Hz), you would multiply by 1e-7.


But if your counter outputs in MHz format, (10.xxx MHz), that's already 
effectively scaled by 1e-6.  So you end up using 1e-1 as the multiplier.


I have lost much hair trying to keep this straight; as wonderful as 
Stable32 is, the documentation is aimed at people who already know what 
they are doing. :-)


73,

John


On 12/14/2011 3:29 PM, George Dubovsky wrote:

List;

OK, I need to measure the stability of a 10 MHz sine-wave source. After
reading a lot of background info on this list and some of the sources that
were referenced, I thought I could get away with a frequency measurement. I
now think I was wrong.

What I have is an Agilent 53230A counter (a pretty capable box - claims 20
ps one-shot resolution in TI mode), a Trimble Thunderbolt, the 10 MHz
oscillator to be measured,  and a copy of Stable32. My first effort
involved feeding the Trimble 10 MHz into the counter as its Ext Reference.
I then fed the Trimble 1pps into the Ext Trigger input of the counter and
fed the sinewave 10 MHz signal to be measured into Ch 1 of the counter. I
then captured the frequency reading of the counter every second and stuffed
those numbers into a file. I collected about 20 hours of frequency
readings, but when I imported that into Stable32 and attempted to do an
Allan Dev plot, it didn't look very good - specifically, the sigma numbers
were in the region of 10e-2 to 10e-4.

So, I grabbed another Thunderbolt and attempted to do the same measurement
on it, figuring that everyone (but me) has taken data on a T'bolt, so I
could just look on tvb's site or some such to find proper data on a Tbolt.
Again, the plot didn't look like it should.

Am I going to have to go to time interval measurements to do what I want?
And does this mean I will have to square up my 10 MHz signal to have real
edges?

geo
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Re: [time-nuts] Noob question on measuring Allan Deviation on 10 MHz source

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

Once you get the frequencies matched with a fraction of 1 Hz,
I would measure the phase between the 10 MHz source and the
10 MHz from the Trimble.

On 12/14/2011 12:29 PM, George Dubovsky wrote:

List;

OK, I need to measure the stability of a 10 MHz sine-wave source. After
reading a lot of background info on this list and some of the sources that
were referenced, I thought I could get away with a frequency measurement. I
now think I was wrong.

What I have is an Agilent 53230A counter (a pretty capable box - claims 20
ps one-shot resolution in TI mode), a Trimble Thunderbolt, the 10 MHz
oscillator to be measured,  and a copy of Stable32. My first effort
involved feeding the Trimble 10 MHz into the counter as its Ext Reference.
I then fed the Trimble 1pps into the Ext Trigger input of the counter and
fed the sinewave 10 MHz signal to be measured into Ch 1 of the counter. I
then captured the frequency reading of the counter every second and stuffed
those numbers into a file. I collected about 20 hours of frequency
readings, but when I imported that into Stable32 and attempted to do an
Allan Dev plot, it didn't look very good - specifically, the sigma numbers
were in the region of 10e-2 to 10e-4.

So, I grabbed another Thunderbolt and attempted to do the same measurement
on it, figuring that everyone (but me) has taken data on a T'bolt, so I
could just look on tvb's site or some such to find proper data on a Tbolt.
Again, the plot didn't look like it should.

Am I going to have to go to time interval measurements to do what I want?
And does this mean I will have to square up my 10 MHz signal to have real
edges?

geo
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--
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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Re: [time-nuts] gravity controlled pendulumn clock?

[Don Latham]

Good Lord, I thought he meant the cost of beer
Don

Jim Palfreyman
> John,
>
> No it isn't. Not even close to "the world around".
>
>>From WP:
>
> "One fluid ounce is 1⁄16 of a U.S. pint, 1⁄32 of a U.S. quart, and
> 1⁄128 of
> a U.S. gallon. The fluid ounce derives its name originally from being
> the
> volume of one ounce avoirdupois
> of water, but in the U.S. it
> is defined as
> 1⁄128 of a U.S. gallon. Consequently, a fluid ounce of water weighs
> about
> 1.041 ounces avoirdupois.
>
> The saying "a pint's a pound the world around" refers to 16 US fluid
> ounces
> of water weighing approximately (about 4% more than) one pound
> avoirdupois.
> An imperial pint of water weighs a pound and a quarter."
>
>
> You also have troy and apothecary systems - all different. Urrghhh.
>
>
> A cubic metre holds 1000 litres (exactly) and a 10x10x10 cm container
> holds
> a litre (exactly). A litre of water weighs 1kg, A ml of water weight 1
> gram. (Fantastic for cooking btw - use digital scales, put your bowl on
> them, zero it and add, say, 250g of milk/water/most liquids)
>
> And if you want a laugh go youtube "American Chopper metric system" and
> watch that short video. It is the final conclusive proof why metric is
> superior.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> On 15 December 2011 07:02, John Ackermann N8UR  wrote:
>
>> On 12/14/2011 2:29 PM, shali...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>  Another small thing I miss is that a liter of water weighs a kg
>> (under
>>> reference conditions, I forgot what that was :). Then the specific
>>> weight
>>> of various materials only has to be known by their "density" (ratio
>>> of
>>> specific weight compared to water). It makes all sorts of
>>> calculations (
>>> and guestimations) easy.
>>>
>>
>> I remember one (and only one) thing from my 7th grade math teacher: "A
>> pint's a pound the world around."
>>
>> John
>>
>>
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>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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>>
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>


-- 
"Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument
are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind."
R. Bacon
"If you don't know what it is, don't poke it."
Ghost in the Shell


Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
Six Mile Systems LLP
17850 Six Mile Road
POB 134
Huson, MT, 59846
VOX 406-626-4304
www.lightningforensics.com
www.sixmilesystems.com



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Re: [time-nuts] gravity controlled pendulumn clock?

[Don Latham]

OK, it's right most folks (except for NASA, poke poke) do not have to
know the difference between a pound mass and a pound force, or
capacitance in ??? etc. The SI units are best for science because they
are all tied together with common ground. OTH, my grandmother's cookie
recipe only puts pounds or is it slugs on me...
Don

Justin Pinnix
> Contrary to popular belief, most of us in the U.S. have heard of the
> metric
> system and understand how it works.  Personally, I agree that it is a
> simpler and superior system.
>
> But, English is the system we "think" in.  We know that if a person is
> 300
> lbs they need to lose weight, you need to drink 8 cups of water a day,
> and
> wish for 70 degree days.  Grandma's cookie recipe uses 1 cup of flour.
>  Trying to convince 300 million people to re-learn all of that is a
> tough
> sell when there is no obvious advantage to them.  Most are not
> scientists
> or engineers and aren't likely to do business with a foreign country.
>
> Those of us who are scientists and engineers likely use metric at work
> and
> English at home.  Is that wrong?  Maybe, but we're smart people and we
> can
> deal with it :-)
>
> It's not like metric is totally absent.  We drink 2 liter cokes and
> defend
> ourselves with 9mm pistols.   Our cars use mostly metric parts.  Even
> ham
> radio operators, arguably the most jingoistic and set in the past bunch
> around, get on the 80, 40, and 20 METER bands.
>
> Furthermore, I've been to some of these countries that supposedly use
> the
> metric system.  One of them measured distance between cities in km and
> speed limits in MPH.  Now THAT was annoying!
>
> "Progressives" tried to force Metric on the U.S. in the 1970s and it
> didn't
> catch on.  Besides, we've got bigger standardization problems to deal
> with
> these days - getting everyone here to speak English!
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:29 PM,  wrote:
>
>> I told myself I would stop after my last posts, but I can't help it.
>>
>> I do not pretend to know everything, but I am one of the relatively
>> few in
>> my circle of friends with extensive experience with both systems, and
>> after
>> 26 years here, the imperial system has simply not made a case for
>> itself as
>> far as I am concerned. It is my opinion, and a fact as far as I am
>> concerned, not that it makes it a universal truth in any other frame
>> of
>> reference. Your mileage may vary.
>>
>> I agree that the decimal system is a big part of what makes me prefer
>> the
>> metric system. The meter itself is not a superior unit than the inch
>> or the
>> foot to measure anything. But there are other considerations when
>> using one
>> "system" versus the other.
>> Our designers and mechanical engineers here use decimal fractions of
>> an
>> inch in specifying mechanical drawings, but raw metal stock (and
>> tools) are
>> still only available in 1/4, 1/8, 1/16 (and so on) of an inch
>> dimensions,
>> so most dimensions have to be given with 3 or 4 decimals, and even
>> then
>> they are not always right. When trying to mentally add two, three or
>> four
>> dimensions each with 4 decimals, and one or two digits to the left of
>> the
>> decimal point, it stops being fun and its easy to make mistakes.
>> Somehow, that was never an issue when I was designing back in France.
>> Most
>> dimensions has 2 or 3 significant digits, making the mental juggling
>> much
>> easier.
>> That was the reason for my characterization of the imperial system as
>> being more error prone. I never said or implied that it was less
>> precise.
>> Precision is a function of the instrument, not the frame of reference.
>>
>> In the metric system, screws and wires are referenced by their
>> diameter,
>> not a reference number that requires a table to figure out how big
>> they
>> are. I understand these numbers correspond to something, they are not
>> arbitrary, but while they may simplify "some" calculations, in
>> everyday
>> tasks, these numbers tend to complicate life instead of simplifying
>> it.
>> Here, every designer has tables after tables plastered on their walls.
>> In
>> France, I do not remember that we needed so many.
>>
>> Another small thing I miss is that a liter of water weighs a kg (under
>> reference conditions, I forgot what that was :). Then the specific
>> weight
>> of various materials only has to be known by their "density" (ratio of
>> specific weight compared to water). It makes all sorts of calculations
>> (
>> and guestimations) easy.
>>
>> But its just my opinion :)
>>
>> Didier
>>
>> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless thingy while I do other things...
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Chuck Harris 
>> Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com
>> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 10:30:34
>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement<
>> time-nuts@febo.com>
>> Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>>
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] gravity controlled pendulumn clock?
>>
>> Hal Murray wrote:
>> ..

[time-nuts] Noob question on measuring Allan Deviation on 10 MHz source

[George Dubovsky]

List;

OK, I need to measure the stability of a 10 MHz sine-wave source. After
reading a lot of background info on this list and some of the sources that
were referenced, I thought I could get away with a frequency measurement. I
now think I was wrong.

What I have is an Agilent 53230A counter (a pretty capable box - claims 20
ps one-shot resolution in TI mode), a Trimble Thunderbolt, the 10 MHz
oscillator to be measured,  and a copy of Stable32. My first effort
involved feeding the Trimble 10 MHz into the counter as its Ext Reference.
I then fed the Trimble 1pps into the Ext Trigger input of the counter and
fed the sinewave 10 MHz signal to be measured into Ch 1 of the counter. I
then captured the frequency reading of the counter every second and stuffed
those numbers into a file. I collected about 20 hours of frequency
readings, but when I imported that into Stable32 and attempted to do an
Allan Dev plot, it didn't look very good - specifically, the sigma numbers
were in the region of 10e-2 to 10e-4.

So, I grabbed another Thunderbolt and attempted to do the same measurement
on it, figuring that everyone (but me) has taken data on a T'bolt, so I
could just look on tvb's site or some such to find proper data on a Tbolt.
Again, the plot didn't look like it should.

Am I going to have to go to time interval measurements to do what I want?
And does this mean I will have to square up my 10 MHz signal to have real
edges?

geo
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Re: [time-nuts] gravity controlled pendulumn clock?

[Jim Palfreyman]

John,

No it isn't. Not even close to "the world around".

From WP:

"One fluid ounce is 1⁄16 of a U.S. pint, 1⁄32 of a U.S. quart, and 1⁄128 of
a U.S. gallon. The fluid ounce derives its name originally from being the
volume of one ounce avoirdupois
of water, but in the U.S. it
is defined as
1⁄128 of a U.S. gallon. Consequently, a fluid ounce of water weighs about
1.041 ounces avoirdupois.

The saying "a pint's a pound the world around" refers to 16 US fluid ounces
of water weighing approximately (about 4% more than) one pound avoirdupois.
An imperial pint of water weighs a pound and a quarter."


You also have troy and apothecary systems - all different. Urrghhh.


A cubic metre holds 1000 litres (exactly) and a 10x10x10 cm container holds
a litre (exactly). A litre of water weighs 1kg, A ml of water weight 1
gram. (Fantastic for cooking btw - use digital scales, put your bowl on
them, zero it and add, say, 250g of milk/water/most liquids)

And if you want a laugh go youtube "American Chopper metric system" and
watch that short video. It is the final conclusive proof why metric is
superior.

Jim



On 15 December 2011 07:02, John Ackermann N8UR  wrote:

> On 12/14/2011 2:29 PM, shali...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>  Another small thing I miss is that a liter of water weighs a kg (under
>> reference conditions, I forgot what that was :). Then the specific weight
>> of various materials only has to be known by their "density" (ratio of
>> specific weight compared to water). It makes all sorts of calculations (
>> and guestimations) easy.
>>
>
> I remember one (and only one) thing from my 7th grade math teacher: "A
> pint's a pound the world around."
>
> John
>
>
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> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

So the only item of interest is the Rb module itself?

Brings back memories of strange merchandise at Burnstein-Applebee.

On 12/14/2011 12:24 PM, paul swed wrote:

Sure its one seller or his family. Notice the stratum of pricing and such.
What they are saving is the effort to remove the useless oscillator.
Most likely they get the board cut off already. Or could it be? The boards
cut that way because the gold fingers were pulled off for recovery.
Its all about min effort for max reward. Margin I think.

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Chris Albertson
wrote:


On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:46 AM, Joe Leikhim
wrote:

I have been watching this thread and may have missed something. My
questions: What is the purpose of the outboard OCXO VECTRON 63.8976Mhz?

What

model number does this RB most closely resemble?

I can understand one seller just tossing in a useless 63.8976Mhz part
but notice the EVERY seler is tossing in the same 63.8976Mhz part.
This tells me tha one of two things is going on:

(1) threre really is only one seller and he is using multiple eBay acounts
or
(2) there is one supplier who is provides these kits in bulk to
several people who then resell the kits on ebay.  The people who are
selling may not even know the  63.8976Mhz part is useless.

Also notice the photo that shows "my lab" and has the stack of test
equipment is exactly the same photo in a dozen eBay accounts.

My guess about all of this:  One person is selling a "get rich quick"
scheme to others.   He sets you up then sells you bulk items with
pre-written English language descriptions and photo.   Likely he is
also the person who buys the old cell towers and dismantles the parts
  Why else are all the eBay stores so identical?
--

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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--
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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Re: [time-nuts] gravity controlled pendulumn clock?

[Justin Pinnix]

Contrary to popular belief, most of us in the U.S. have heard of the metric
system and understand how it works.  Personally, I agree that it is a
simpler and superior system.

But, English is the system we "think" in.  We know that if a person is 300
lbs they need to lose weight, you need to drink 8 cups of water a day, and
wish for 70 degree days.  Grandma's cookie recipe uses 1 cup of flour.
 Trying to convince 300 million people to re-learn all of that is a tough
sell when there is no obvious advantage to them.  Most are not scientists
or engineers and aren't likely to do business with a foreign country.

Those of us who are scientists and engineers likely use metric at work and
English at home.  Is that wrong?  Maybe, but we're smart people and we can
deal with it :-)

It's not like metric is totally absent.  We drink 2 liter cokes and defend
ourselves with 9mm pistols.   Our cars use mostly metric parts.  Even ham
radio operators, arguably the most jingoistic and set in the past bunch
around, get on the 80, 40, and 20 METER bands.

Furthermore, I've been to some of these countries that supposedly use the
metric system.  One of them measured distance between cities in km and
speed limits in MPH.  Now THAT was annoying!

"Progressives" tried to force Metric on the U.S. in the 1970s and it didn't
catch on.  Besides, we've got bigger standardization problems to deal with
these days - getting everyone here to speak English!

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:29 PM,  wrote:

> I told myself I would stop after my last posts, but I can't help it.
>
> I do not pretend to know everything, but I am one of the relatively few in
> my circle of friends with extensive experience with both systems, and after
> 26 years here, the imperial system has simply not made a case for itself as
> far as I am concerned. It is my opinion, and a fact as far as I am
> concerned, not that it makes it a universal truth in any other frame of
> reference. Your mileage may vary.
>
> I agree that the decimal system is a big part of what makes me prefer the
> metric system. The meter itself is not a superior unit than the inch or the
> foot to measure anything. But there are other considerations when using one
> "system" versus the other.
> Our designers and mechanical engineers here use decimal fractions of an
> inch in specifying mechanical drawings, but raw metal stock (and tools) are
> still only available in 1/4, 1/8, 1/16 (and so on) of an inch dimensions,
> so most dimensions have to be given with 3 or 4 decimals, and even then
> they are not always right. When trying to mentally add two, three or four
> dimensions each with 4 decimals, and one or two digits to the left of the
> decimal point, it stops being fun and its easy to make mistakes.
> Somehow, that was never an issue when I was designing back in France. Most
> dimensions has 2 or 3 significant digits, making the mental juggling much
> easier.
> That was the reason for my characterization of the imperial system as
> being more error prone. I never said or implied that it was less precise.
> Precision is a function of the instrument, not the frame of reference.
>
> In the metric system, screws and wires are referenced by their diameter,
> not a reference number that requires a table to figure out how big they
> are. I understand these numbers correspond to something, they are not
> arbitrary, but while they may simplify "some" calculations, in everyday
> tasks, these numbers tend to complicate life instead of simplifying it.
> Here, every designer has tables after tables plastered on their walls. In
> France, I do not remember that we needed so many.
>
> Another small thing I miss is that a liter of water weighs a kg (under
> reference conditions, I forgot what that was :). Then the specific weight
> of various materials only has to be known by their "density" (ratio of
> specific weight compared to water). It makes all sorts of calculations (
> and guestimations) easy.
>
> But its just my opinion :)
>
> Didier
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless thingy while I do other things...
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Chuck Harris 
> Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com
> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 10:30:34
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement<
> time-nuts@febo.com>
> Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] gravity controlled pendulumn clock?
>
> Hal Murray wrote:
> ...
> >
> > If you were an alien landing on Earth for the first time, which system
> would
> > make more sense to you?
>
> Ah!   A Godcentric view of the universe.  Decimal is an arbitrary
> number system that came about purely because we had 10 fingers, and
> a brain that could only think of using them to count on.
>
> Your hands are probably right now fondling a model of a life form that
> would find the metric system to be quite foreign, and unfriendly...
> Surely you should count using a number system based on an even power
> of 2?
>
> The

Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb

[paul swed]

Sure its one seller or his family. Notice the stratum of pricing and such.
What they are saving is the effort to remove the useless oscillator.
Most likely they get the board cut off already. Or could it be? The boards
cut that way because the gold fingers were pulled off for recovery.
Its all about min effort for max reward. Margin I think.

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Chris Albertson
wrote:

> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:46 AM, Joe Leikhim 
> wrote:
> > I have been watching this thread and may have missed something. My
> > questions: What is the purpose of the outboard OCXO VECTRON 63.8976Mhz?
> What
> > model number does this RB most closely resemble?
>
> I can understand one seller just tossing in a useless 63.8976Mhz part
> but notice the EVERY seler is tossing in the same 63.8976Mhz part.
> This tells me tha one of two things is going on:
>
> (1) threre really is only one seller and he is using multiple eBay acounts
> or
> (2) there is one supplier who is provides these kits in bulk to
> several people who then resell the kits on ebay.  The people who are
> selling may not even know the  63.8976Mhz part is useless.
>
> Also notice the photo that shows "my lab" and has the stack of test
> equipment is exactly the same photo in a dozen eBay accounts.
>
> My guess about all of this:  One person is selling a "get rich quick"
> scheme to others.   He sets you up then sells you bulk items with
> pre-written English language descriptions and photo.   Likely he is
> also the person who buys the old cell towers and dismantles the parts
>  Why else are all the eBay stores so identical?
> --
>
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
>
> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb

[Chris Albertson]

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:46 AM, Joe Leikhim  wrote:
> I have been watching this thread and may have missed something. My
> questions: What is the purpose of the outboard OCXO VECTRON 63.8976Mhz? What
> model number does this RB most closely resemble?

I can understand one seller just tossing in a useless 63.8976Mhz part
but notice the EVERY seler is tossing in the same 63.8976Mhz part.
This tells me tha one of two things is going on:

(1) threre really is only one seller and he is using multiple eBay acounts or
(2) there is one supplier who is provides these kits in bulk to
several people who then resell the kits on ebay.  The people who are
selling may not even know the  63.8976Mhz part is useless.

Also notice the photo that shows "my lab" and has the stack of test
equipment is exactly the same photo in a dozen eBay accounts.

My guess about all of this:  One person is selling a "get rich quick"
scheme to others.   He sets you up then sells you bulk items with
pre-written English language descriptions and photo.   Likely he is
also the person who buys the old cell towers and dismantles the parts
 Why else are all the eBay stores so identical?
-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb

[paul swed]

no purpose at all. Just junk
As to the close match sorry don't know

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:46 PM, Joe Leikhim  wrote:

> I have been watching this thread and may have missed something. My
> questions: What is the purpose of the outboard OCXO VECTRON 63.8976Mhz?
> What model number does this RB most closely resemble?
>
> --
> Joe Leikhim
>
> Leikhim and Associates
> Communications Consultants
> Oviedo, Florida
>
> www.Leikhim.com
>
> jleik...@leikhim.com
>
> 407-982-0446
>
> Note to GMail Account users. Due to an abnormally high volume of spam
> originating from bogus GMail accounts, I have found it necessary to block
> certain GMail traffic. Please phone me if you believe your message was not
> received.
>
>
> __**_
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> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/**
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb

[Peter Gottlieb]

 I would he rather recycle them there than send them to me to fill up landfill 
here.
 
 
On 12/14/11, Chuck Harris wrote:
 
I would say that he has a gadzillion of the OCXO's, recognizes that the 
frequency
is useless, and would rather give them away, generating a little synthetic good 
will,
than scrap them.

-Chuck Harris

Joe Leikhim wrote:
> I have been watching this thread and may have missed something. My questions: 
> What is
> the purpose of the outboard OCXO VECTRON 63.8976Mhz? What model number does 
> this RB
> most closely resemble?
>

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Re: [time-nuts] gravity controlled pendulumn clock?

[John Ackermann N8UR]

On 12/14/2011 2:29 PM, shali...@gmail.com wrote:


Another small thing I miss is that a liter of water weighs a kg (under reference 
conditions, I forgot what that was :). Then the specific weight of various materials only 
has to be known by their "density" (ratio of specific weight compared to 
water). It makes all sorts of calculations ( and guestimations) easy.


I remember one (and only one) thing from my 7th grade math teacher: "A 
pint's a pound the world around."


John

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Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb

[GandalfG8]

In a message dated 14/12/2011 19:58:15 GMT Standard Time,  
jleik...@leikhim.com writes:

So the  OCXO and the 9 pin RS232 are not actually connected to the PC 
board? I am  confused?
--
Nope, just sitting on it for the sake of the photo, treat them as a freebie 
 or as scrap, either or both is a reasonable assumption:-)
 
Regards
 
Nigel
GM8PZR
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Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb

[Joe Leikhim]

So the OCXO and the 9 pin RS232 are not actually connected to the PC 
board? I am confused?


On 12/14/2011 2:53 PM, Chuck Harris wrote:
I would say that he has a gadzillion of the OCXO's, recognizes that 
the frequency
is useless, and would rather give them away, generating a little 
synthetic good will,

than scrap them.

-Chuck Harris

Joe Leikhim wrote:
I have been watching this thread and may have missed something. My 
questions: What is
the purpose of the outboard OCXO VECTRON 63.8976Mhz? What model 
number does this RB

most closely resemble?



--
Joe Leikhim

Leikhim and Associates
Communications Consultants
Oviedo, Florida

www.Leikhim.com

jleik...@leikhim.com

407-982-0446

Note to GMail Account users. Due to an abnormally high volume of spam 
originating from bogus GMail accounts, I have found it necessary to block 
certain GMail traffic. Please phone me if you believe your message was not 
received.


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Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb

[GandalfG8]

In a message dated 14/12/2011 19:46:56 GMT Standard Time,  
jleik...@leikhim.com writes:

I have  been watching this thread and may have missed something. My 
questions:  What is the purpose of the outboard OCXO VECTRON 63.8976Mhz? 
What model  number does this RB most closely resemble?
 
---
No purpose other than a bit of gamesmanship.
When first listed these auctions were categorised as "New", but if you  
looked at the small print it was the throwaway oscillator and/or 9 pin 
connector  that were new but the RB module itself was indicated as used.
 

The module is just one variant of the FEI FE5680A, in this case the PN is  
217400-30352-1 and the frequency can be adjusted over a small range using 
HEX  strings that have previously been documented on this list, in order to 
set it  accurately to 10MHz.
 

regards
 

Nigel
GM8PZR
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Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb

[Chuck Harris]

I would say that he has a gadzillion of the OCXO's, recognizes that the 
frequency
is useless, and would rather give them away, generating a little synthetic good 
will,
than scrap them.

-Chuck Harris

Joe Leikhim wrote:

I have been watching this thread and may have missed something. My questions: 
What is
the purpose of the outboard OCXO VECTRON 63.8976Mhz? What model number does 
this RB
most closely resemble?



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Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb

[Joe Leikhim]

I have been watching this thread and may have missed something. My 
questions: What is the purpose of the outboard OCXO VECTRON 63.8976Mhz? 
What model number does this RB most closely resemble?


--
Joe Leikhim

Leikhim and Associates
Communications Consultants
Oviedo, Florida

www.Leikhim.com

jleik...@leikhim.com

407-982-0446

Note to GMail Account users. Due to an abnormally high volume of spam 
originating from bogus GMail accounts, I have found it necessary to block 
certain GMail traffic. Please phone me if you believe your message was not 
received.


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Re: [time-nuts] gravity controlled pendulum clock?

[Chuck Harris]

Jim Palfreyman wrote:

Paul, a cricket pitch is 20 m. Sure when the curator draws the lines it is
12cm longer, (and I guarantee s/he uses a metric measure) but when we pace
it out for backyard cricket - its 20 m.

Also my American friends, all your imperial measurements are DEFINED in
terms of metric. eg your inch is 25.4 mm exactly. By definition. It has
been estimated you could save a trillion dollars a year in your economy by
converting - which you will ultimately do. I just hope it is in my
lifetime.


I have to wonder how scrapping all of our gas pumps, road signs, cooking
utensils, and most of our manufacturing machines would save us a trillion
dollars a year.  Sounds like wishful thinking.

I would sure like to see how that number was arrived at!

-Chuck Harris




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Re: [time-nuts] gravity controlled pendulumn clock?

[shalimr9]

I told myself I would stop after my last posts, but I can't help it.

I do not pretend to know everything, but I am one of the relatively few in my 
circle of friends with extensive experience with both systems, and after 26 
years here, the imperial system has simply not made a case for itself as far as 
I am concerned. It is my opinion, and a fact as far as I am concerned, not that 
it makes it a universal truth in any other frame of reference. Your mileage may 
vary.

I agree that the decimal system is a big part of what makes me prefer the 
metric system. The meter itself is not a superior unit than the inch or the 
foot to measure anything. But there are other considerations when using one 
"system" versus the other.
Our designers and mechanical engineers here use decimal fractions of an inch in 
specifying mechanical drawings, but raw metal stock (and tools) are still only 
available in 1/4, 1/8, 1/16 (and so on) of an inch dimensions, so most 
dimensions have to be given with 3 or 4 decimals, and even then they are not 
always right. When trying to mentally add two, three or four dimensions each 
with 4 decimals, and one or two digits to the left of the decimal point, it 
stops being fun and its easy to make mistakes.
Somehow, that was never an issue when I was designing back in France. Most 
dimensions has 2 or 3 significant digits, making the mental juggling much 
easier.
That was the reason for my characterization of the imperial system as being 
more error prone. I never said or implied that it was less precise. Precision 
is a function of the instrument, not the frame of reference.

In the metric system, screws and wires are referenced by their diameter, not a 
reference number that requires a table to figure out how big they are. I 
understand these numbers correspond to something, they are not arbitrary, but 
while they may simplify "some" calculations, in everyday tasks, these numbers 
tend to complicate life instead of simplifying it. Here, every designer has 
tables after tables plastered on their walls. In France, I do not remember that 
we needed so many.

Another small thing I miss is that a liter of water weighs a kg (under 
reference conditions, I forgot what that was :). Then the specific weight of 
various materials only has to be known by their "density" (ratio of specific 
weight compared to water). It makes all sorts of calculations ( and 
guestimations) easy.

But its just my opinion :)

Didier

Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless thingy while I do other things...

-Original Message-
From: Chuck Harris 
Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 10:30:34 
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement

Subject: Re: [time-nuts] gravity controlled pendulumn clock?

Hal Murray wrote:
...
>
> If you were an alien landing on Earth for the first time, which system would
> make more sense to you?

Ah!   A Godcentric view of the universe.  Decimal is an arbitrary
number system that came about purely because we had 10 fingers, and
a brain that could only think of using them to count on.

Your hands are probably right now fondling a model of a life form that
would find the metric system to be quite foreign, and unfriendly...
Surely you should count using a number system based on an even power
of 2?

There was a time when I spent more time doing arithmetic in octal
than in decimal.  If humans had been born with 4 fingers on each
hand, we would be talking about how certain we were that an alien
would find an octal centric measurement system made more sense.

Metric is purely arbitrary, as are all of the variants on the
English system.  Life would go just as smoothly if we had standardized
on the inch, pound, and gallon, and used decimal fractions and multiples
to represent measurements larger and smaller than the unit.

-Chuck Harris

OBTW, as time nuts, we are steeped in the two units of measure that
are decidedly non-metric: seconds, and Hz.  Think about it...

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Re: [time-nuts] gravity controlled pendulumn clock?

[Don Latham]

yes, but 4 rods in the RSF system...
Reeves Paul
> But it is 1 chain, (22 yards), surely? And you admitted that is not 20m
> when
> laid out properly. The laws of cricket have not changed (even if they
> give a
> metric equivalent) just because we might have joined the EU!! I have no
> objection to using a metric measure to do it but you have to use a
> non-integer value - and do the conversion. Not very elegant. So if tape
> measures with joint metric/imperial markings are available - and they
> are -
> why not use the correct measure in the first place?
> As to the definition of the inch it works both ways - why have 25.4
> subdivisions of an arbitrary length to equal one inch. Just use an inch
> -
> it's no less valid and the yard/metre can both be defined in exactly the
> same way as so-and-so many wavelengths of Kr86 light. As I said, it's
> just
> that the internal standards conversions in the 'metric' system are
> easier.
> Just nit-picking, really. I use both systems happily as, I suspect, most
> people of my age do, depending on circumstance.
>
> Paul Reeves  G8GJA
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jim Palfreyman [mailto:jim77...@gmail.com]
> Sent: 14 December 2011 11:23
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] gravity controlled pendulumn clock?
>
> Paul, a cricket pitch is 20 m. Sure when the curator draws the lines it
> is
> 12cm longer, (and I guarantee s/he uses a metric measure) but when we
> pace
> it out for backyard cricket - its 20 m.
>
> Also my American friends, all your imperial measurements are DEFINED in
> terms of metric. eg your inch is 25.4 mm exactly. By definition. It has
> been
> estimated you could save a trillion dollars a year in your economy by
> converting - which you will ultimately do. I just hope it is in my
> lifetime.
>
> On Wednesday, 14 December 2011, Reeves Paul
> 
> wrote:
>> Oh dear, what have I helped to get going :-) It has certainly been
>> interesting reading! My point was, as Chuck notes, that the metre,
> kilogram
>> etc. are no more 'precise' than a yard, pound etc. being, essentially,
>> arbitrary units and the 'imperial' units can be defined just as
>> accurately and in the same way. I will certainly concede that things
>> become 'interesting' when converting between different units outside
>> of the 'metric' system (and the 'metric' system went through several
>> versions
> -with
>> distinctly odd units - before the current standardised one) but that
>> just relates to my comment on the reduction of mental arithmetic
>> abilities nowadays as against simple decimal point shifting..
>> I'm not sure I would agree on being 'forced' to take on certain
> measurements
>> - we are a lot closer to Europe (sort of...), after all - but pints,
> inches
>> and miles do seem more 'natural' (a litre is just too much beer) and
>> you could never measure a cricket pitch in metres!
>> That's all from me,
>>
>> Paul Reeves G8GJA
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Chuck Harris [mailto:cfhar...@erols.com]
>> Sent: 14 December 2011 02:05
>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] gravity controlled pendulumn clock?
>>
>> Arnold Tibus wrote:
>>> I don't understand at all the arguments against the metric system and
>>> the polemic remarks about. I second the statements of Neville and
>>> Jim.
>>>
>>> Without these intelligent french Astronomers like
>>> Jean-Baptiste-Joseph Delambre, Pierre-François-André Méchain and J.J.
> Lalande (more infos:
>>> Ken Alder, The Measure of All Things), we would still have the severe
>>> problems they had centuries ago!
>>>
>>> Reading WIKIPEDIA, http://en.wikipedia.org
>>> /wiki/German_units_of_measurement,
>>> we find a good example of weird units (just for only a part of
>>> Germany):
>>>
>>> "Before the introduction of the metric system in Germany, almost
>>> every town had its own definitions of the units shown below, and
>>> supposedly by 1810, in Baden alone, there were 112 different
>>> standards for the Elle around Germany. The metric system was a
>>> much-needed standardisation in Germany."
>>>
>>> This was not only a german problem, and we still have today some
>>> problems in the world in this area.
>>
>> Standardization is fine.  Attempting to force the world's largest
>> economy
> to
>> bend to the wishes of Europe isn't fine.  The US system has been
>> standardized for more than a century, and works very nicely.  Decimal
>> inches, decimal pounds, and seconds is every bit as valid a
>> measurement system as the equally arbitrary meter, kilogram and
>> second.  Decimal
> inches,
>> decimal pounds, and seconds flies most of the airframes in the world,
>> won WWII, and took mankind to the moon and beyond.
>>
>> Saying that the use of pounds, and yards is imprecise is simply
>> ignorant.
>>
>>>
>>> I believe we should think more about what we are saying and doing, so
>>> we would do a big step forward to become 

Re: [time-nuts] gravity controlled pendulumn clock?

[Tony Finch]

Chuck Harris  wrote:

> Metric is purely arbitrary, as are all of the variants on the
> English system.

They are not equally arbitrary. The metric system was constructed from the
size and rate of rotation of the Earth and the density of water, plus some
well-organized constant factors. (The relation between length, volume, and
mass is elegantly simple.) Customary measures are based on artefacts whose
size cannot be recovered if they are lost, with irregular subdividing
factors and no commonality between the units for different physical
dimensions.

Tony.
-- 
f.anthony.n.finchhttp://dotat.at/
Fair Isle: West, veering northwest, 5 to 7, occasionally gale 8 at first.
Rough or very rough, occasionally high. Squally showers. Moderate or good.

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Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb I see the price has gone up for these

[lists]

Or the shipper didn't pack it well. UPS is very generous on insurance payments 
IF the shipper doesn't have a history of issues. The stores that use the custom 
foam scheme you see often on ebay were stores already nabbed by UPS for too 
many damage claims.  

As far as I know, the Customs House just does paperwork. Breaking stuff is left 
to the package handlers. 

Everything I ever got from China has been USPS. Slow boat from China is more 
than an expression. ;-)

--Original Message--
From: J. Forster
To: li...@lazygranch.com
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
ReplyTo: j...@quikus.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb I see the price has gone up  for  
these
Sent: Dec 14, 2011 9:00 AM

Yeah. UPS has a Customs Broker...  staffed by 600 pound gorillas. They
succeeded in breaking my cast iron antenna base about 1/2" thick and
weighing over 40 pounds.

-John

===


> Paying duty on foreign purchases is always a crap shoot. Often you don't
> get charged at all. Other times the item is held and you pony up the duty.
>
> I got an item through Fedex and they came after me two years later for the
> duty. I refused to pay because I couldn't even remember if I paid the duty
> when I got the item.
>
> UPS has their own customs house. Way more professional than Fedex.
>
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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>
>


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Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb I see the price has gone up for these

[J. Forster]

Yeah. UPS has a Customs Broker...  staffed by 600 pound gorillas. They
succeeded in breaking my cast iron antenna base about 1/2" thick and
weighing over 40 pounds.

-John

===


> Paying duty on foreign purchases is always a crap shoot. Often you don't
> get charged at all. Other times the item is held and you pony up the duty.
>
> I got an item through Fedex and they came after me two years later for the
> duty. I refused to pay because I couldn't even remember if I paid the duty
> when I got the item.
>
> UPS has their own customs house. Way more professional than Fedex.
>
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
>



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Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb I see the price has gone up for these

[lists]

Paying duty on foreign purchases is always a crap shoot. Often you don't get 
charged at all. Other times the item is held and you pony up the duty. 

I got an item through Fedex and they came after me two years later for the 
duty. I refused to pay because I couldn't even remember if I paid the duty when 
I got the item. 

UPS has their own customs house. Way more professional than Fedex. 

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Re: [time-nuts] Software for Tektronix FCA3100 Counter -- AKA Pendulum CNT91

[GandalfG8]

Hi Stan
 
Unfortunately I can't answer your question, I'm having trouble enough with  
my own:-), but I have got a copy of 0v979 so will forward that  direct in 
case you want to try it.
 
Regards
 
Niogel
GM8PZR
 
---
 
 
In a message dated 14/12/2011 14:57:08 GMT Standard Time,  
swp...@earthlink.net writes:

Hi Nigel  and Magnus,

Do you know whether TimeLab will work with the CNT81  counter? If so, is
Version 0.979 still available  anywhere?

Thanks,
Stan
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Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb I see the price has gone up for these

[David Kirkby]

On 14 December 2011 01:13, Frederick Bray  wrote:
> Anyone who is interested in buying these units should take a look at the
> completed listings and be guided accordingly when making an offer.  I
> recently picked up a couple for ~ $35 each, including shipping.  True the
> price may be going up, but it looks like you can still get them for under
> $40 with shipping if you don't mind waiting for the slow boat from China.
>  For experimentation, that is still a good deal.
>
> (I must admit that I didn't "need" them, but want to try pairing them with a
> couple Thunderbolts.)

I bought a couple off of someone who sold them on eBay, though it was
not an ebay purchase. But he used god alful courier that wanting
paying the import duties by bank transfer or cheque before they would
deliver the goods. I thought I would be able to ring up with a Visa
card and pay, but was told they could not take credit or debit cards
over the phone. But I did get a couple for a pretty good deal.

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Re: [time-nuts] gravity controlled pendulumn clock?

[Javier Herrero]

El 14/12/2011 16:30, Chuck Harris escribió:


OBTW, as time nuts, we are steeped in the two units of measure that
are decidedly non-metric: seconds, and Hz.  Think about it...


I find the second quite metric in the sense of powers of ten: we measure 
seconds, milliseconds, nanoseconds...  and not usualy 15/32 of a second. 
The non-metric ones could be the minute, hour, day And for the Hz 
the same applies.


Regards,

Javier


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Re: [time-nuts] gravity controlled pendulumn clock?

[Chuck Harris]

Hal Murray wrote:
...


If you were an alien landing on Earth for the first time, which system would
make more sense to you?


Ah!   A Godcentric view of the universe.  Decimal is an arbitrary
number system that came about purely because we had 10 fingers, and
a brain that could only think of using them to count on.

Your hands are probably right now fondling a model of a life form that
would find the metric system to be quite foreign, and unfriendly...
Surely you should count using a number system based on an even power
of 2?

There was a time when I spent more time doing arithmetic in octal
than in decimal.  If humans had been born with 4 fingers on each
hand, we would be talking about how certain we were that an alien
would find an octal centric measurement system made more sense.

Metric is purely arbitrary, as are all of the variants on the
English system.  Life would go just as smoothly if we had standardized
on the inch, pound, and gallon, and used decimal fractions and multiples
to represent measurements larger and smaller than the unit.

-Chuck Harris

OBTW, as time nuts, we are steeped in the two units of measure that
are decidedly non-metric: seconds, and Hz.  Think about it...

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Re: [time-nuts] gravity controlled pendulumn clock?

[Tony Finch]

Dave Martindale  wrote:
>
> But where the metric system has an advantage is that the units with
> the same name are the same size everywhere; that's not true of
> "English" units.  I can remember mixing Kodak photographic chemicals
> for darkroom use, where the mixing instructions are in terms of ounces
> and gallons.  But I was in Canada, where the Imperial (British) ounce
> and gallon are both different volumes than the American (and thus
> Kodak) units of the same name.
>
> Fortunately, the inch seems to be the same size everywhere, so I don't
> have to figure out whether someone is talking about British inches or
> American inches.

It's possibly worth noting that it is only the units of volume that differ
between the American customary and British Imperial systems of units. The
systems diverged because in the 18th century there were multiple volume
measures in use (the ale gallon, the wine gallon, the Winchester bushel).
The US simplified by using the wine gallon for all liquid volumes and kept
the Winchester bushel for grain volume. Britain was more influenced by
French metrication, which led to a new unified system based on the
Imperial gallon, defined as the volume of 10 lb water.

Tony.
-- 
f.anthony.n.finchhttp://dotat.at/
Portland, Plymouth, Biscay: West 7 to severe gale 9, occasionally storm 10
later. Very rough or high, occasionally very high. Squally thundery showers.
Moderate, occasionally poor.

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Re: [time-nuts] filtering a 10Mhz frequency standard?

[paul swed]

Boy thats nice and simple. Shame I juts placed a order for parts could have
added a few 10.7 xformers to the order.

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Timeok  wrote:

> see also:
> http://www.timeok.it/files/10_mhz_bandpass_filter.pdf
> --
> Luciano P. S. Paramithiotti
> IZ5JHJ
>
>
> - Original Message 
> From: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> 
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> 
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] filtering a 10Mhz frequency standard?
> Date: Dec 13, 2011 10:29 PM
>
> > If you are going to buffer the output, why does the filter have to be
> > passive? Did I miss something here? Today 10MHz is in the realm of
> > active filters. [Hey, not that I made an active filter at 10MHz.]
> >
> > Sensitivity is a function of the denominator. The only advantage to a
> > LPF over a BPF is the BPF has to be centered at 10MHz, while you could
> > bump the corner of the LPF to a higher frequency so there is less
> > sensitivity at 10MHz This presumes you are only getting rid of harmonics
> > and not spurs.
> >
> > For lowest component sensitivity, leap frog designs are best. But in
> > continuous time designs, they require many op amps per pole.
> >
> > ___
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> >
>
>
>
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>
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] filtering a 10Mhz frequency standard?

[Timeok]

see also:
http://www.timeok.it/files/10_mhz_bandpass_filter.pdf
--
Luciano P. S. Paramithiotti
IZ5JHJ


- Original Message 
From: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement

To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement

Subject: Re: [time-nuts] filtering a 10Mhz frequency standard?
Date: Dec 13, 2011 10:29 PM

> If you are going to buffer the output, why does the filter have to be 
> passive? Did I miss something here? Today 10MHz is in the realm of 
> active filters. [Hey, not that I made an active filter at 10MHz.]
> 
> Sensitivity is a function of the denominator. The only advantage to a 
> LPF over a BPF is the BPF has to be centered at 10MHz, while you could 
> bump the corner of the LPF to a higher frequency so there is less 
> sensitivity at 10MHz This presumes you are only getting rid of harmonics 
> and not spurs.
> 
> For lowest component sensitivity, leap frog designs are best. But in 
> continuous time designs, they require many op amps per pole.
> 
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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> 



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Re: [time-nuts] Software for Tektronix FCA3100 Counter -- AKA Pendulum CNT91

[Stan]

In a message dated 14/12/2011 09:45:33 GMT Standard Time,
mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org writes:

TimeLab  should be able to work with it as the CNT91 supports TalkOnly (and
TimeLab  only supports TalkOnly counters for generic types). I can't use my
CNT90  with TimeLab, as it doesn't have TalkOnly mode unfortunately.

Tektronix  and Fluke re-badged them. Spectracom bought Pendulum and in the
end they  closed the Stockholm office and the Pendulum design-team
dispersed.
--
Thanks Magnus
 
I'd downloaded version 0.979 in November, but because the release note for
that version stated "Added driver for HP 5335A counter" I just assumed that
any device would need a machine specific driver.
That'll teach me not to do my homework properly, and not to jump to
unwarranted conclusions:-), I'll give it a try.
 
I was aware of the re-badging and of Spectracom taking over Pendulum, but
wasn't aware of the closer of the Stockholm office and the loss of the
design  team, that would seem to be a very short sighted business
decision:-(
 
Regards
 
Nigel
GM8PZR
--
Hi Nigel and Magnus,

Do you know whether TimeLab will work with the CNT81 counter? If so, is
Version 0.979 still available anywhere?

Thanks,
Stan


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Re: [time-nuts] gravity controlled pendulumn clock?

[Reeves Paul]

But it is 1 chain, (22 yards), surely? And you admitted that is not 20m when
laid out properly. The laws of cricket have not changed (even if they give a
metric equivalent) just because we might have joined the EU!! I have no
objection to using a metric measure to do it but you have to use a
non-integer value - and do the conversion. Not very elegant. So if tape
measures with joint metric/imperial markings are available - and they are -
why not use the correct measure in the first place? 
As to the definition of the inch it works both ways - why have 25.4
subdivisions of an arbitrary length to equal one inch. Just use an inch -
it's no less valid and the yard/metre can both be defined in exactly the
same way as so-and-so many wavelengths of Kr86 light. As I said, it's just
that the internal standards conversions in the 'metric' system are easier.
Just nit-picking, really. I use both systems happily as, I suspect, most
people of my age do, depending on circumstance.

Paul Reeves  G8GJA


-Original Message-
From: Jim Palfreyman [mailto:jim77...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 14 December 2011 11:23
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] gravity controlled pendulumn clock?

Paul, a cricket pitch is 20 m. Sure when the curator draws the lines it is
12cm longer, (and I guarantee s/he uses a metric measure) but when we pace
it out for backyard cricket - its 20 m.

Also my American friends, all your imperial measurements are DEFINED in
terms of metric. eg your inch is 25.4 mm exactly. By definition. It has been
estimated you could save a trillion dollars a year in your economy by
converting - which you will ultimately do. I just hope it is in my lifetime.

On Wednesday, 14 December 2011, Reeves Paul 
wrote:
> Oh dear, what have I helped to get going :-) It has certainly been 
> interesting reading! My point was, as Chuck notes, that the metre,
kilogram
> etc. are no more 'precise' than a yard, pound etc. being, essentially, 
> arbitrary units and the 'imperial' units can be defined just as 
> accurately and in the same way. I will certainly concede that things 
> become 'interesting' when converting between different units outside 
> of the 'metric' system (and the 'metric' system went through several 
> versions
-with
> distinctly odd units - before the current standardised one) but that 
> just relates to my comment on the reduction of mental arithmetic 
> abilities nowadays as against simple decimal point shifting..
> I'm not sure I would agree on being 'forced' to take on certain
measurements
> - we are a lot closer to Europe (sort of...), after all - but pints,
inches
> and miles do seem more 'natural' (a litre is just too much beer) and 
> you could never measure a cricket pitch in metres!
> That's all from me,
>
> Paul Reeves G8GJA
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Chuck Harris [mailto:cfhar...@erols.com]
> Sent: 14 December 2011 02:05
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] gravity controlled pendulumn clock?
>
> Arnold Tibus wrote:
>> I don't understand at all the arguments against the metric system and 
>> the polemic remarks about. I second the statements of Neville and Jim.
>>
>> Without these intelligent french Astronomers like 
>> Jean-Baptiste-Joseph Delambre, Pierre-François-André Méchain and J.J.
Lalande (more infos:
>> Ken Alder, The Measure of All Things), we would still have the severe 
>> problems they had centuries ago!
>>
>> Reading WIKIPEDIA, http://en.wikipedia.org 
>> /wiki/German_units_of_measurement,
>> we find a good example of weird units (just for only a part of Germany):
>>
>> "Before the introduction of the metric system in Germany, almost 
>> every town had its own definitions of the units shown below, and 
>> supposedly by 1810, in Baden alone, there were 112 different 
>> standards for the Elle around Germany. The metric system was a 
>> much-needed standardisation in Germany."
>>
>> This was not only a german problem, and we still have today some 
>> problems in the world in this area.
>
> Standardization is fine.  Attempting to force the world's largest 
> economy
to
> bend to the wishes of Europe isn't fine.  The US system has been 
> standardized for more than a century, and works very nicely.  Decimal 
> inches, decimal pounds, and seconds is every bit as valid a 
> measurement system as the equally arbitrary meter, kilogram and 
> second.  Decimal
inches,
> decimal pounds, and seconds flies most of the airframes in the world, 
> won WWII, and took mankind to the moon and beyond.
>
> Saying that the use of pounds, and yards is imprecise is simply ignorant.
>
>>
>> I believe we should think more about what we are saying and doing, so 
>> we would do a big step forward to become a world community. ...
>
> Regardless of our measurement systems, we are already a world community.
>
> The strife we see in the world today is not the result of 
> measurements,
but
> rather is th

Re: [time-nuts] gravity controlled pendulumn clock?

[Jim Palfreyman]

Paul, a cricket pitch is 20 m. Sure when the curator draws the lines it is
12cm longer, (and I guarantee s/he uses a metric measure) but when we pace
it out for backyard cricket - its 20 m.

Also my American friends, all your imperial measurements are DEFINED in
terms of metric. eg your inch is 25.4 mm exactly. By definition. It has
been estimated you could save a trillion dollars a year in your economy by
converting - which you will ultimately do. I just hope it is in my
lifetime.

On Wednesday, 14 December 2011, Reeves Paul 
wrote:
> Oh dear, what have I helped to get going :-) It has certainly been
> interesting reading! My point was, as Chuck notes, that the metre,
kilogram
> etc. are no more 'precise' than a yard, pound etc. being, essentially,
> arbitrary units and the 'imperial' units can be defined just as accurately
> and in the same way. I will certainly concede that things become
> 'interesting' when converting between different units outside of the
> 'metric' system (and the 'metric' system went through several versions
-with
> distinctly odd units - before the current standardised one) but that just
> relates to my comment on the reduction of mental arithmetic abilities
> nowadays as against simple decimal point shifting..
> I'm not sure I would agree on being 'forced' to take on certain
measurements
> - we are a lot closer to Europe (sort of...), after all - but pints,
inches
> and miles do seem more 'natural' (a litre is just too much beer) and you
> could never measure a cricket pitch in metres!
> That's all from me,
>
> Paul Reeves G8GJA
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Chuck Harris [mailto:cfhar...@erols.com]
> Sent: 14 December 2011 02:05
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] gravity controlled pendulumn clock?
>
> Arnold Tibus wrote:
>> I don't understand at all the arguments against the metric system and
>> the polemic remarks about. I second the statements of Neville and Jim.
>>
>> Without these intelligent french Astronomers like Jean-Baptiste-Joseph
>> Delambre, Pierre-François-André Méchain and J.J. Lalande (more infos:
>> Ken Alder, The Measure of All Things), we would still have the severe
>> problems they had centuries ago!
>>
>> Reading WIKIPEDIA, http://en.wikipedia.org
>> /wiki/German_units_of_measurement,
>> we find a good example of weird units (just for only a part of Germany):
>>
>> "Before the introduction of the metric system in Germany, almost every
>> town had its own definitions of the units shown below, and supposedly
>> by 1810, in Baden alone, there were 112 different standards for the
>> Elle around Germany. The metric system was a much-needed
>> standardisation in Germany."
>>
>> This was not only a german problem, and we still have today some
>> problems in the world in this area.
>
> Standardization is fine.  Attempting to force the world's largest economy
to
> bend to the wishes of Europe isn't fine.  The US system has been
> standardized for more than a century, and works very nicely.  Decimal
> inches, decimal pounds, and seconds is every bit as valid a measurement
> system as the equally arbitrary meter, kilogram and second.  Decimal
inches,
> decimal pounds, and seconds flies most of the airframes in the world, won
> WWII, and took mankind to the moon and beyond.
>
> Saying that the use of pounds, and yards is imprecise is simply ignorant.
>
>>
>> I believe we should think more about what we are saying and doing, so
>> we would do a big step forward to become a world community. ...
>
> Regardless of our measurement systems, we are already a world community.
>
> The strife we see in the world today is not the result of measurements,
but
> rather is the result of religion, politics, and culture.
>
> -Chuck Harris
>
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> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is
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> or covered by legal professional privilege. If you have received this
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you
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https

Re: [time-nuts] Software for Tektronix FCA3100 Counter -- AKA Pendulum CNT91

[GandalfG8]

In a message dated 14/12/2011 09:45:33 GMT Standard Time,  
mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org writes:

TimeLab  should be able to work with it as the CNT91 supports TalkOnly 
(and TimeLab  only supports TalkOnly counters for generic types). I can't 
use my CNT90  with TimeLab, as it doesn't have TalkOnly mode unfortunately.

Tektronix  and Fluke re-badged them. Spectracom bought Pendulum and in 
the end they  closed the Stockholm office and the Pendulum design-team  
dispersed.
--
Thanks Magnus
 
I'd downloaded version 0.979 in November, but because the release note for  
that version stated "Added driver for HP 5335A counter" I just assumed that 
 any device would need a machine specific driver.
That'll teach me not to do my homework properly, and not to jump to  
unwarranted conclusions:-), I'll give it a try.
 
I was aware of the re-badging and of Spectracom taking over Pendulum, but  
wasn't aware of the closer of the Stockholm office and the loss of the 
design  team, that would seem to be a very short sighted business decision:-(
 
Regards
 
Nigel
GM8PZR
 
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Re: [time-nuts] Software for Tektronix FCA3100 Counter -- AKA Pendulum CNT91

[GandalfG8]

In a message dated 14/12/2011 09:34:35 GMT Standard Time,  
azelio.bori...@screen.it writes:

You can  download a 30-day demo version of TimeView from the SpectraCom  web
site.
-
Thanks for the reply.
 
Tektronix, and no doubt Pendulum too, also offers a 30 day evaluation copy  
and I have already downloaded that and will be trying it shortly, but even 
if it  turns out to be the all time best thing since sliced bread I'd still 
be  extremely reluctant to even consider paying the price they're asking  
for a full copy.
 
 
 
regards
 
Nigel
GM8PZR
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Re: [time-nuts] Software for Tektronix FCA3100 Counter -- AKA Pendulum CNT91

[Magnus Danielson]

On 12/14/2011 01:13 AM, gandal...@aol.com wrote:

Earlier this year I got a very good deal on an as new Tektronix  FCA3100
Timer/Counter/Analyzer, which turned out to be  a rebadged Pendulum CNT91.

Pendulum offers what looks to be some very nice software for this  unit,
what it calls its TimeView Modulation Domain Analyzer, but Tektronix have
quoted me a price for that in excess of what I paid for the counter  itself.

Does anybody know of any similar software that can be used with these
counters, ideally free:-), but at the very least a lot cheaper than  the 600 or
700 GBP I was quoted by Tektronix?


TimeLab should be able to work with it as the CNT91 supports TalkOnly 
(and TimeLab only supports TalkOnly counters for generic types). I can't 
use my CNT90 with TimeLab, as it doesn't have TalkOnly mode unfortunately.


Tektronix and Fluke re-badged them. Spectracom bought Pendulum and in 
the end they closed the Stockholm office and the Pendulum design-team 
dispersed.


Cheers,
Magnus

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Re: [time-nuts] gravity controlled pendulumn clock?

[Reeves Paul]

Oh dear, what have I helped to get going :-) It has certainly been
interesting reading! My point was, as Chuck notes, that the metre, kilogram
etc. are no more 'precise' than a yard, pound etc. being, essentially,
arbitrary units and the 'imperial' units can be defined just as accurately
and in the same way. I will certainly concede that things become
'interesting' when converting between different units outside of the
'metric' system (and the 'metric' system went through several versions -with
distinctly odd units - before the current standardised one) but that just
relates to my comment on the reduction of mental arithmetic abilities
nowadays as against simple decimal point shifting..
I'm not sure I would agree on being 'forced' to take on certain measurements
- we are a lot closer to Europe (sort of...), after all - but pints, inches
and miles do seem more 'natural' (a litre is just too much beer) and you
could never measure a cricket pitch in metres!
That's all from me,

Paul Reeves G8GJA



-Original Message-
From: Chuck Harris [mailto:cfhar...@erols.com] 
Sent: 14 December 2011 02:05
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] gravity controlled pendulumn clock?

Arnold Tibus wrote:
> I don't understand at all the arguments against the metric system and 
> the polemic remarks about. I second the statements of Neville and Jim.
>
> Without these intelligent french Astronomers like Jean-Baptiste-Joseph 
> Delambre, Pierre-François-André Méchain and J.J. Lalande (more infos:
> Ken Alder, The Measure of All Things), we would still have the severe 
> problems they had centuries ago!
>
> Reading WIKIPEDIA, http://en.wikipedia.org 
> /wiki/German_units_of_measurement,
> we find a good example of weird units (just for only a part of Germany):
>
> "Before the introduction of the metric system in Germany, almost every 
> town had its own definitions of the units shown below, and supposedly 
> by 1810, in Baden alone, there were 112 different standards for the 
> Elle around Germany. The metric system was a much-needed 
> standardisation in Germany."
>
> This was not only a german problem, and we still have today some 
> problems in the world in this area.

Standardization is fine.  Attempting to force the world's largest economy to
bend to the wishes of Europe isn't fine.  The US system has been
standardized for more than a century, and works very nicely.  Decimal
inches, decimal pounds, and seconds is every bit as valid a measurement
system as the equally arbitrary meter, kilogram and second.  Decimal inches,
decimal pounds, and seconds flies most of the airframes in the world, won
WWII, and took mankind to the moon and beyond.

Saying that the use of pounds, and yards is imprecise is simply ignorant.

>
> I believe we should think more about what we are saying and doing, so 
> we would do a big step forward to become a world community. ...

Regardless of our measurement systems, we are already a world community.

The strife we see in the world today is not the result of measurements, but
rather is the result of religion, politics, and culture.

-Chuck Harris

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This email, including any attachment, is a confidential communication
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is
addressed. It contains information which is private and may be proprietary
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in error, please notify the sender upon receipt, and immediately delete it
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Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that any attachment to
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damage sustained as a result of software viruses, and would advise that you
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Re: [time-nuts] Software for Tektronix FCA3100 Counter -- AKA Pendulum CNT91

[Azelio Boriani]

You can download a 30-day demo version of TimeView from the SpectraCom web
site.

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 1:13 AM,  wrote:

> Earlier this year I got a very good deal on an as new Tektronix  FCA3100
> Timer/Counter/Analyzer, which turned out to be  a rebadged Pendulum CNT91.
>
> Pendulum offers what looks to be some very nice software for this  unit,
> what it calls its TimeView Modulation Domain Analyzer, but Tektronix have
> quoted me a price for that in excess of what I paid for the counter
>  itself.
>
> Does anybody know of any similar software that can be used with these
> counters, ideally free:-), but at the very least a lot cheaper than  the
> 600 or
> 700 GBP I was quoted by Tektronix?
>
> Regards
>
> Nigel
> GM8PZR
>
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
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