[time-nuts] Inside a dead Lucent 40 db cone

[Pete Lancashire]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/oDjphd6DQhyrQp1w7
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Re: [time-nuts] HP5065C or the 5065Jr.

[Pete Lancashire]

nicely done !

On Sun, Jun 10, 2018 at 8:53 AM  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Thought I'd share some PIX of an HP5065A I made up from spare parts.
>
> Chassis was from an HP8620C and there is no AC supply, it runs off of
> external +24VDC.
>
> Unit has 5 and 10 Mhz outputs.
>
> It tests well and easily exceeds the HP specs.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Corby___
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Re: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable

[Pete Lancashire]

Dana,

I would suggest downloading and reading the HP journals that discussed the
first clocks there's a lot of information in there about how they operate
Etc.

On Sat, May 19, 2018, 8:23 AM Dana Whitlow  wrote:

> Don't Cesium clocks have a beam current integrator of sorts so that it's
> possible
> to pretty accurately assess the remaining life of the tube?  If not, I'm
> terribly
> surprised and disappointed.
>
> Also, beginning with a new tube, roughly how long can one be run until it
> reaches exhaustion?  Are we speaking months, years, decades, or what?
>
> Dana
>
>
> On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 10:01 AM, Bob kb8tq  wrote:
>
> > Hi
> >
> > Unfortunately there really is no way to tell how much Cs is left in the
> > tube. You can
> > look at beam current and make a guess. All that really will tell you is
> > that the fuel
> > gauge is on empty or at least just off of empty.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > > On May 19, 2018, at 2:30 AM, Paul Bicknell 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Doug
> > >
> > > Is it possible to test its operation and
> > > can the time left on the cesium be calculated   Regards Paul
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Doug
> > Millar
> > > via time-nuts
> > > Sent: 19 May 2018 05:04
> > > To: time-nuts@febo.com
> > > Subject: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable
> > >
> > > Hi, I am willing to part with my HP 5061A cesium standard and manual.
> The
> > > unit was rebuilt and functioning some years ago and not used since
> then.
> > > There is usable cesium in the tube and the unit worked. I have not
> > tested it
> > > recently. It has a Patek-Philippe analogue clock in the front. The unit
> > is
> > > in great physical condition.  Asking $600 plus shipping from Long
> Beach,
> > CA.
> > > 90806
> > > I also have an ESI 242D resistance calibrator and a Julie primary
> > resistance
> > > standard in an oven. Let me know if you are interested. Very
> reasonable.
> > >  Thanks, Doug K6JEY
> > > ___
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> > >
> > >
> > > -
> > > No virus found in this message.
> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15670 - Release Date:
> > 05/19/18
> > >
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Re: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable

[Pete Lancashire]

I dug not sure if the previous email went through correctly. I am
interested in your cesium clock. My location is Portland Oregon 97217



On Fri, May 18, 2018, 9:31 PM Doug Millar via time-nuts 
wrote:

> Hi, I am willing to part with my HP 5061A cesium standard and manual. The
> unit was rebuilt and functioning some years ago and not used since then.
> There is usable cesium in the tube and the unit worked. I have not tested
> it recently. It has a Patek-Philippe analogue clock in the front. The unit
> is in great physical condition.  Asking $600 plus shipping from Long Beach,
> CA. 90806
> I also have an ESI 242D resistance calibrator and a Julie primary
> resistance standard in an oven. Let me know if you are interested. Very
> reasonable.
>  Thanks, Doug K6JEY
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Re: [time-nuts] What is considered the best deal now days on ...

[Pete Lancashire]

Yeah the 10 megahertz thing was me not thinking very well. It's somewhere
in the back of my mind I remember I think a korean-made (?) model did 10 out

On Thu, May 3, 2018, 5:16 PM Bob kb8tq  wrote:

> Hi
>
> Outputs a pps is not impossible to find on an L1 / L2 receiver. Outputs 10
> MHz is
> very unusual on an L1 / L2 device.
>
> Bob
>
> > On May 3, 2018, at 7:42 PM, Pete Lancashire 
> wrote:
> >
> > ... a L1 / L2 receiver that also outputs either one PPS or 10 megahertz
> >
> > -pete
> > ___
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[time-nuts] What is considered the best deal now days on ...

[Pete Lancashire]

... a L1 / L2 receiver that also outputs either one PPS or 10 megahertz

-pete
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[time-nuts] 5062C (long shot) looking for ...

[Pete Lancashire]

Does not hurt to ask, looking for ...

1259-1287 adapter

05062-60127 extender

05062-60128 extender

05062-60187 extender

05062-60126 2 x test cable



A8 10543-60013 5 MHz osc. assembly replacement 10543-00500
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Re: [time-nuts] suggestions on getting 24 Mhz ?

[Pete Lancashire]

14 bit

On Mon, Apr 16, 2018, 8:00 AM jimlux  wrote:

> On 4/16/18 3:45 AM, Pete Lancashire wrote:
> > Access to " the xtal" is not an option the SDR is enclosed in a metal
> box.
> >
> > Do a web search for RSP2Pro
> >
> >
>
> It does have an external reference input..
> There's not a lot of info on the Mirics data sheets (or on the sdrplay
> website)
>
> It sort of looks like this is a somewhat enhanced version of the parts
> used in the RTL-SDR dongles.
> (10 bit ADC, instead of 8 bits in the RTL2832)
>
> And of course it needs 24MHz because it has to run the USB interface.
>
> 10 bit ADC means that you probably don't need *outstanding* clock
> performance - the sample and hold and all the other timing logic is
> probably designed to that sort of performance level - getting
> femtosecond jitter probably isn't worth it.
>
>
> If you're just looking for a 24 MHz driver that doesn't need to be
> locked to anything, one of the SiTime modules would work, or you could
> probably order a TCXO for 24 MHz - it's a standard frequency (viz. USB),
> so it's almost certainly available from stock
>
>
>
> > On Sun, Apr 15, 2018, 6:00 AM Attila Kinali  wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 11 Apr 2018 03:00:23 -0700
> >> Pete Lancashire  wrote:
> >>
> >>> Needed for SDR project as external clock source.
> >>
> >> If your goal is, as Jim guessed, to get 24MHz from 10MHz and
> >> you are using something like an RTL-SDR, then how about just
> >> passing the 10MHz through a CMOS gate to square it up and
> >> get nice harmonics, then pass a wire close to the crystal.
> >> This should injection lock the crystal to right frequency.
> >> It wont be a strong lock due to the 5:12 ratio, but for something
> >> like a crystal that is already quite close, that should do the trick.
> >>
> >> Alternatively, using an ADF4002 with a small uC to configure it
> >> and a VCXO/VCO should also work.
> >>
> >>  Attila Kinali
> >> --
> >> The bad part of Zurich is where the degenerates
> >>  throw DARK chocolate at you.
> >> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] suggestions on getting 24 Mhz ?

[Pete Lancashire]

Access to " the xtal" is not an option the SDR is enclosed in a metal box.

Do a web search for RSP2Pro



On Sun, Apr 15, 2018, 6:00 AM Attila Kinali  wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Apr 2018 03:00:23 -0700
> Pete Lancashire  wrote:
>
> > Needed for SDR project as external clock source.
>
> If your goal is, as Jim guessed, to get 24MHz from 10MHz and
> you are using something like an RTL-SDR, then how about just
> passing the 10MHz through a CMOS gate to square it up and
> get nice harmonics, then pass a wire close to the crystal.
> This should injection lock the crystal to right frequency.
> It wont be a strong lock due to the 5:12 ratio, but for something
> like a crystal that is already quite close, that should do the trick.
>
> Alternatively, using an ADF4002 with a small uC to configure it
> and a VCXO/VCO should also work.
>
> Attila Kinali
> --
> The bad part of Zurich is where the degenerates
> throw DARK chocolate at you.
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Re: [time-nuts] suggestions on getting 24 Mhz ?

[Pete Lancashire]

Yea, was also thinking of grabbing one of my 3325B's and hiding it under
the desk :-)

Going to see on Ebay if there are any 24 MHz VXCO's

-pete

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 9:00 AM, Jerry Hancock  wrote:

> For and RSP?  I used an HP 3325 locked to my Cs beam and took the signal
> from the back.  I think I paid no more than $100 for the 3325a and one I
> got for free.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jerry
>
>
> > On Apr 11, 2018, at 4:49 AM, jster...@att.net wrote:
> >
> > Leo Bodnar GPSDO - adjustable Low-jitter GPS-locked precision frequency
> reference 400 Hz to 810 MHz .  He has a new one, single output for 99
> british pounds.
> >
> > Jerry NY2KW
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: time-nuts  On Behalf Of Pete
> Lancashire
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 6:00 AM
> > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <
> time-nuts@febo.com>
> > Subject: [time-nuts] suggestions on getting 24 Mhz ?
> >
> > Needed for SDR project as external clock source.
> >
> > -pete
> > ___
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> >
> > ---
> > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> > https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >
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[time-nuts] suggestions on getting 24 Mhz ?

[Pete Lancashire]

Needed for SDR project as external clock source.

-pete
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[time-nuts] 100% Gamble HP 5062C

[Pete Lancashire]

Found the 5 MHz osc assembly floating around and the nuts removed from the
PCB

https://photos.app.goo.gl/5AM9tW26UQYNyz1k2

-pete
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Re: [time-nuts] Time nut over from the old days

[Pete Lancashire]

The old oven has been taken

I will be finding much more over the next few month and 99% of it will be
at the same price.

Regards

-pete

On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 9:22 AM, Pete Lancashire 
wrote:

> https://photos.app.goo.gl/gIw4P1RQHPk2t4K33
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Time nut over from the old days

[Pete Lancashire]

If anyone wants it, he or she that comes up with the coolest reason can
have it. It rattles so I will take a look inside and post what I find

-pete

On Feb 28, 2018 10:54 AM, "John Franke"  wrote:

> I still use them, both the Bliley and James Knights versions. Especially
> like them for 100 KC crystals.
>
> John Franke
> WA4WDL
>
> > On February 28, 2018 at 12:22 PM Pete Lancashire <
> p...@petelancashire.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > https://photos.app.goo.gl/gIw4P1RQHPk2t4K33
> > ___
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[time-nuts] Time nut over from the old days

[Pete Lancashire]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/gIw4P1RQHPk2t4K33
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Re: [time-nuts] Need Oncore connector info.

[Pete Lancashire]

Magdi,

Excellent summery 

-pete

On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:13 AM, Majdi S. Abbas  wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 08:01:12AM -0600, John Green wrote:
> > I need the part number of the connector that the Motorola Oncore series
> GPS
> > receiver plugs into.  Does anyone have that info at hand?
>
> Which Oncore?  The M12+ and the earlier ones are different.
> Early receivers used a standard dual row 0.1" (2.54mm) pitch for
> power and data, and an MCX antenna connector.
>
> Later receivers used a 1.27mm pitch (0.050") 2x5pin header
> with (from memory) the same pinout.
>
> You should be able to search on pitch, row and pin count on
> your distributors website and find a variety of manufacturers.
> There's nothing special about these connectors.
>
> And while you're ordering them, Trimble went to a 2x4 pin
> 2mm / 0.079" connector.  If you're going to play with a Resolution T
> SMT module or something along those lines down the road, you might
> as well order that up, too.
>
> --msa
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Re: [time-nuts] Curious, how many t-nuts have 5065A

[Pete Lancashire]

Wow, don't know why but more than I expected. I no longer do, but if the
person who I gave it to wants and is on TN can.

-pet

On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 6:23 PM,  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> My current Tally of  "Known" HP 5065A is 120 units!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Corby
>
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[time-nuts] Curious, how many t-nuts have 5065A

[Pete Lancashire]

no reason other then  curious

-pete
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[time-nuts] read of the wire - the Clock of the Long Now

[Pete Lancashire]

https://www.theengineer.co.uk/1-year-clock-texan-mountain/
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Re: [time-nuts] HP nixie counters, free!

[Pete Lancashire]

Worse case pull and keep/offer the boards and the oven. Gets the shipping
costs down. Other than the power transistors they are 90% of what goes
wrong.



On Jan 5, 2018 11:45 AM, "Don"  wrote:

> Hi Scott
> I have two of these counters and just love them.
> With the proper 'tuned-cavity' plugins, they can measure into the
> gigahertz.  Such nostalgia.
> Unfortunately, I am in Austin, TX.  They are heavy!  Want to meet in
> Atlanta  hihi.
> Seriously, ...if you have any left over, with no homes, I might be
> interested in just the Nixie readout modules, if you would ship some to
> me.  I'll pay shipping, of course.
> Don
> N5CID
> ===
> On Fri, 2018-01-05 at 13:10 -0500, David Scott Coburn wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I have some old HP nixie tube counters (5245Ls) which I would like to
> > give away to a good home.  See the attached photo.  (Sorry for the
> > poor quality.)
> >
> > Some of them power on, some of them do not.  I don't think any of
> > them actually work correctly.  They would be good for parts.
> >
> > I am giving these away for free to anyone who is interested.
> >
> > I would rather not have to box these up and ship them.  I am located
> > on Long Island (NY) and would be willing to drive them part way
> > (within reason!) to meet if you are willing.
> >
> > I tried Craig's list with no luck.  I do not want the hassle of eBay.
> >
> > If no one is interested I will probably tear them down and get the
> > various parts into the right metal recycling bins at the landfill
> > (sadly).
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Scott
> > ___
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Re: [time-nuts] Recently acquired 53132A

[Pete Lancashire]

Bob,

I took the cover off, looks like the moisture inside the box was not that
bad, can't see anything
with corrosion, rust, oxides etc. And my first test sticking my head in the
box and sniffing for
the usual mold/mildew smells.

On that VFD .. I totally agree my a 3324A and a 8664A are pretty much no
longer have a disply,
found a hanger queen with a good display for the 8664A but the 3324A is now
pretty much remote
only, or push buttons and hope for the best.



On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 11:54 AM, Pete Lancashire 
wrote:

> Tom,
>
> I should have re-read the model number, no wonder I could not find
> anything.
> Hopefully still a good $100 investment.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 11:43 AM, Bob kb8tq  wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> The 53132 is the older version of the 53230 counter. It’s been out of
>> production
>> and past "end of life" support for quite a while now. It’s main issue
>> measurement
>> wise is a group of issues that make it less sensitive (lower resolution)
>> than one
>> might think right at 10 MHz and to a lesser extent at 10 MHz / N or 10
>> MHz * N.
>> There is no known “fix” other than running it with a reference that is
>> detuned a bit
>> from 10 MHz. That obviously has some issues all by its self. I suppose a
>> fix could
>> be to not measure 10 MHz ….
>>
>> The biggest failure point in the counters that I have seen has been the
>> power supplies.
>> They apparently came as a completed module from an HP supplier. One
>> wonders who
>> that might have been …. I would strongly recommend taking a look at yours
>> to be sure
>> the water did not damage the board. I would also make sure the fan is
>> clean and
>> operates correctly. Clogged fans lead to dead power supply boards ….
>>
>> All that said, it’s a pretty good counter. I’m not sure it is worth a
>> crazy price, but there is
>> a price I would gladly pay for one. They all will eventually die as the
>> las of the VFD displays
>> wear out. At that point, hopefully we all will be running them via serial
>> or GPIB and
>> not even notice the issue.
>>
>> Lots of Fun
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> > On Dec 18, 2017, at 2:23 PM, Pete Lancashire 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Friday I acquired a 53132A
>> >
>> > https://photos.app.goo.gl/xexnJcEmT8tEWXi73
>> >
>> > It does not have any options.
>> >
>> > It is from a place that sells "selected" E-waste. I was in a water
>> damaged
>> > box, and was from a DHL freight insurance sale. It's been in the box
>> until
>> > a couple weeks ago.
>> >
>> > Anyway, until now I've not followed the conversation on the issues with
>> > using the External Reference, which I would like to do. But don't see if
>> > there
>> > were any conclusions or anything that could be done other then the
>> issues
>> > where fixed in the "B" version.
>> >
>> > Is there a problem and a 'fix' that I missed searching the archives ?
>> >
>> > -pete
>> > ___
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Re: [time-nuts] Recently acquired 53132A

[Pete Lancashire]

Tom,

I should have re-read the model number, no wonder I could not find anything.
Hopefully still a good $100 investment.



On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 11:43 AM, Bob kb8tq  wrote:

> Hi
>
> The 53132 is the older version of the 53230 counter. It’s been out of
> production
> and past "end of life" support for quite a while now. It’s main issue
> measurement
> wise is a group of issues that make it less sensitive (lower resolution)
> than one
> might think right at 10 MHz and to a lesser extent at 10 MHz / N or 10 MHz
> * N.
> There is no known “fix” other than running it with a reference that is
> detuned a bit
> from 10 MHz. That obviously has some issues all by its self. I suppose a
> fix could
> be to not measure 10 MHz ….
>
> The biggest failure point in the counters that I have seen has been the
> power supplies.
> They apparently came as a completed module from an HP supplier. One
> wonders who
> that might have been …. I would strongly recommend taking a look at yours
> to be sure
> the water did not damage the board. I would also make sure the fan is
> clean and
> operates correctly. Clogged fans lead to dead power supply boards ….
>
> All that said, it’s a pretty good counter. I’m not sure it is worth a
> crazy price, but there is
> a price I would gladly pay for one. They all will eventually die as the
> las of the VFD displays
> wear out. At that point, hopefully we all will be running them via serial
> or GPIB and
> not even notice the issue.
>
> Lots of Fun
>
> Bob
>
> > On Dec 18, 2017, at 2:23 PM, Pete Lancashire 
> wrote:
> >
> > Friday I acquired a 53132A
> >
> > https://photos.app.goo.gl/xexnJcEmT8tEWXi73
> >
> > It does not have any options.
> >
> > It is from a place that sells "selected" E-waste. I was in a water
> damaged
> > box, and was from a DHL freight insurance sale. It's been in the box
> until
> > a couple weeks ago.
> >
> > Anyway, until now I've not followed the conversation on the issues with
> > using the External Reference, which I would like to do. But don't see if
> > there
> > were any conclusions or anything that could be done other then the issues
> > where fixed in the "B" version.
> >
> > Is there a problem and a 'fix' that I missed searching the archives ?
> >
> > -pete
> > ___
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> > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
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> > and follow the instructions there.
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[time-nuts] Recently acquired 53132A

[Pete Lancashire]

Friday I acquired a 53132A

https://photos.app.goo.gl/xexnJcEmT8tEWXi73

It does not have any options.

It is from a place that sells "selected" E-waste. I was in a water damaged
box, and was from a DHL freight insurance sale. It's been in the box until
a couple weeks ago.

Anyway, until now I've not followed the conversation on the issues with
using the External Reference, which I would like to do. But don't see if
there
were any conclusions or anything that could be done other then the issues
where fixed in the "B" version.

Is there a problem and a 'fix' that I missed searching the archives ?

-pete
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Re: [time-nuts] General Radio Model 723D Precision Oscillator (Tuning Fork)

[Pete Lancashire]

Here's a look at a 723-C (1,000 cps) and how its power supply cap was
handled and a good look inside

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/vintage-teardown-general-radio-723-c-vacuum-tube-tuning-fork/


The GR Experimenter

http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-General-Radio/GR%20Exp%201941_10.pdf

There is another Experimenter that goes into how the tuningfork was made
but can't find it

-pete

On Sat, Dec 9, 2017 at 5:18 AM, Don  wrote:

> > I was fortunate to find a vintage, General Radio (GR) Model 723D
> > Precision Oscillator (tuning fork).
> >
> > The exceptional wooden case is as 'exciting' to look at as is the
> > mechanical tuning fork inside (400Hz).
> >
> > As it is ac powered, I'll need to recap it before I turn it on.
> >  Then, we can test for accuracy! (sic).
> >
> > A real class-act, 'time-nut' oscillator from the last century,
> > predating crystals.
> >
> > Don
> >
> > Don Lewis
> > Austin, TX
> > N5CID
> >
> >
> >
> >
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Re: [time-nuts] GPS Antenna Feed Line Decision

[Pete Lancashire]

What are you using for a distribution amplifier ?

On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 11:57 AM, Clay Autery  wrote:

> Having decision-making problems for the materials for my GPS main
> feedline.  Going to use a TM LMR stock, just can't decide how big to go
> with it...
>
> 26 dB 5vdc antenna on top of a 38 foot mast.  Feed will come down the
> inside/center of mast and exit near the bottom, thence routed through a
> window and to the GPS distro amp. Antenna will feed GPSDO, NTP Server,
> Blitzortung System Blue station, and one other device TBD.
>
> Just cannot decide how big to go with the antenna to distro amp feed...
> Assuming 50 feet total (38' mast + 12 feet to amp in shack) @ 1800 MHz
> (closest to 1725 MHz), here are the losses from just this piece
> (ignoring the amp to device jumpers):
>
> -240 = 5.45 dB XXX - too much loss?
> -400 = 2.85 dB
> -500 = 2.30 dB  XXX - too hard to find
> -600 = 1.85 dB
> -900 = 1.25 dB
>
> Money not necessarily a consideration as this is a short run for a
> permanent installation.  Don't anticipate ever moving the GPS antenna to
> the tower.
> For 900 and likely 600, likely would not be able to do it in one piece
> as routing it out of the mast and into the shack would get complicated.
> Would likely bring it out of the mast at the bottom with a right angle
> connector, and then use a smaller diameter jumper for the last 12 feet.
> 500 is pretty uncommon stock wise and it and connectors are harder to find.
>
> I already have the tooling for both 240 and 400... but I definitely
> don't want to challenge ANY of the devices for signal gain.
>
> So it mostly boils down to easy vs. more effort ($$ aside)  Is it
> worth the additional trouble to move from -400 to -600 or -900?  To NOT
> lose the 1-1.6 dB additional?
>
> I'd appreciate your recommendation and reasoning. Thanks in advance!
>
> 73,
>
> --
> __
> Clay Autery, KY5G
> MONTAC Enterprises
> (318) 518-1389
>
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Re: [time-nuts] HP 5065A repair...

[Pete Lancashire]

That's great. Another old HP  box brought back to life.

-pete

On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 4:24 PM, paul swed  wrote:

> Ulf very good and great to hear. I did look at the clock motor driver and I
> believe you can use a ttl flip flop to drive the two transistors just fine.
> I think the ttl will run on the 4.2 V. But the transistor drive
> requirements look reasonable.
> So if you want the click click you can have it.
> Regards
> Paul
> Wb8tsl
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 6:28 PM, Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts <
> time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:
>
> >  After having salvaged an old 5065A that was
> > decomissioned in 1987 due to Rubidium cavity
> > heater short circuit, I have now, several
> > weeks later eventually managed to what I think
> > repair it.
> > Using a GPS-Diciplined HP105A
> > as oscilloscope trigger, the 5MHz O/P is
> > absolutely still. "Continous Operation"is ON, and the values indicated on
> > thepanel meter are almost matching thosewritten on the operating chart
> back
> > in 1987.
> >
> > The next step is to take the 5065 to my work
> > where we have two H-masers. Then it will be possible
> > to see if it meets the old specification.
> >
> > A BIG Thank You
> > to Corby Dawson!for valuable help and also to people providing
> > the documents found on KO4BB site ("First Aid...")
> > Ulf KylenfallSM6GXV
> > ___
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> >
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Re: [time-nuts] GPS Units in Z3801A

[Pete Lancashire]

I may have more of replacement Motorola GPS receiver modules. I had been
sorting out stuff in storage
and ran across some boxes that came from the same source the last batch
came from. It maybe a couple
weeks before I can find out. My dance card is pretty full for the next
couple weeks and weekends.

The pictures from last year

http://petelancashire.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=5249

-pete






On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 3:27 PM, Hal Murray  wrote:

>
> I have a Z3801A that has lost contact with GPS.  The GPS module is working
> -
> the list of not-tracking  satellites changes occasionally, but it never
> tracks anything.  I've tried swapping antennas and such but that hasn't
> helped.
>
> How often does the front end of the GPS module die?
>
> Will the newer 8 channel modules work in the Z3801A or do I need to locate
> an
> old 6 channel version?
>
> Is there a tells-all web page or message to this list about GPS modules for
> the Z3801A?  I'd expect one, but I haven't found it.
>
> 
>
> I noticed that the UTC time from the status page is different from the T2
> time.
>
> T220170719039300141
>
> The UTC clock seems to have gone crazy.  From the status page:
> Tracking: 0Not Tracking: 6UTC  06:28:15 [?] 01 Nov
> 2018
> Tracking: 0Not Tracking: 6UTC  06:28:15 [?] 22 Aug
> 2019
> Tracking: 0Not Tracking: 6UTC  06:28:15 [?] 19 Dec
> 2019
>
> The T2 time is a day old.  My guess is that it pulled the time it's using
> for
> T2 from wherever it stores the log slots.
>
>
>
>
> --
> These are my opinions.  I hate spam.
>
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] CRT for Tracor 527A

[Pete Lancashire]

Not rare but uncommon. I gave the one I have away a couple years ago. Ask
on a few of he military/boatanchor lists, I've had pretty good luck.

-pete

On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 2:01 PM, David C. Partridge <
david.partri...@perdrix.co.uk> wrote:

> Trying a long shot here, I'm looking for a 1" CRT type 1EP1 (or 1EP11, or?)
> for a Tracor 527A Frequency Difference Meter.
>
> I did spot some on eBay but the vendor had a rather high opinion of their
> worth :) at over 300 dollars
>
> Anyone got one to spare?
>
> Thanks
> Dave
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Powering up a long inactive 5061A

[Pete Lancashire]

Did' not see the 'variac'

A variable autotransfomer more then likely we burn up something in the
power supply. This applies to pretty much all high equipment
that is more than just TV Repair shop gear or anything designed by HP after
around the mid to late 60's.

If power supply regulation exists, and is anything more then a gas
discharge regulator, don't use a variac.

On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 11:02 PM, Hugh Blemings  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I've been assisting with the cataloguing and, where possible, testing of a
> bunch of test equipment from a deceased estate.
>
> One of the items is a 5061A which best I can tell has not been powered on
> for over a decade.  The High Performance tube has a warranty expiration
> date of 1988.  Serial number is 1936A01567 and has Option 01 and 04 and has
> the digital rather than analogue clock.  Minor but it's missing the bottom
> cover.
>
> My intuition is to set it to one side until I can become familiar with the
> operating manual and potentially bring power up to it slowly with a Variac
> or similar.
>
> I'd be curious as to the time-nuts view on whether this degree of caution
> warranted ?
>
> I suspect the Cs tube is long dead, but maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised
> ?
>
> Would welcome feedback on sensible/cautious first steps with the unit -
> initial need, if possible, is a "simple" go/no go/does it power on ?
>
> Cheers/73
> Hugh
> VK3YYZ/AD5RV
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Powering up a long inactive 5061A

[Pete Lancashire]

scan the archives for 5061, there's a lot there specially recently

-pete

On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 11:02 PM, Hugh Blemings  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I've been assisting with the cataloguing and, where possible, testing of a
> bunch of test equipment from a deceased estate.
>
> One of the items is a 5061A which best I can tell has not been powered on
> for over a decade.  The High Performance tube has a warranty expiration
> date of 1988.  Serial number is 1936A01567 and has Option 01 and 04 and has
> the digital rather than analogue clock.  Minor but it's missing the bottom
> cover.
>
> My intuition is to set it to one side until I can become familiar with the
> operating manual and potentially bring power up to it slowly with a Variac
> or similar.
>
> I'd be curious as to the time-nuts view on whether this degree of caution
> warranted ?
>
> I suspect the Cs tube is long dead, but maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised
> ?
>
> Would welcome feedback on sensible/cautious first steps with the unit -
> initial need, if possible, is a "simple" go/no go/does it power on ?
>
> Cheers/73
> Hugh
> VK3YYZ/AD5RV
>
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[time-nuts] Two pieces of old General Radio Freq. Nuts

[Pete Lancashire]

https://goo.gl/photos/tygN5ZFeFLUhc4zX6

Near Portland Oregon

Don't want much, make offer.

Anyone interested ?

Can bring to Seaside Swap meet

-pete
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Re: [time-nuts] Machining some aluminum help!

[Pete Lancashire]

Price sounds reasonable to me.

Tapping 40 each 4-40's that deep in to a closed hole is the killer. If I
still had my old Bridgeport J and was NC'ed Your looking at say 1 hour to
program, 10 minutes to mount in a vice and get aligned, drill 40 each #44
or #43 holes would be easy, but then slow things down, cross fingers and
start tapping.

Doing it by hand, at 1/2 deep those holes better be close to "perfectly"
aligned.


On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 9:54 AM,  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have a square aluminum tube 5" X 5" with a .25" wall it's 8 1/2" long.
>
> I need 20 holes in each end tapped for 4/40 and 1/2" deep.
>
> This is for a Rubidium project.
>
> The local machine shop want's $360.00
>
> Anyone have a machining setup that could do the work a bit cheaper?
>
> If not I'll give it a try myself.
>
> Please contact me off list.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Corby Dawson
>
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[time-nuts] Another oldie

[Pete Lancashire]

HP 103A from a swap meet

https://goo.gl/photos/S5RNSvFigrm8TSeY9
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Re: [time-nuts] Looking for Gen Rad 1101A oscillator/parts

[Pete Lancashire]

I took a gamble at a swap meet a few years ago $5 but did not have time etc
to look inside get home no rock but nice wooden box :-)

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 2:21 PM, Bob kb8tq  wrote:

> Hi
>
> Does your unit have the 1190 100 Kc quartz bar still in it? If so does the
> mount appear to be intact?
>
> At this late date, replacing that resonator is not going to be easy.
>
> Bob
>
> > On Apr 6, 2017, at 3:58 PM, jmfra...@cox.net wrote:
> >
> > I am trying to restore a clunker  General Radio 1101A crystal
> oscillator. The unit I have is missing several parts including the mercury
> thermostat switch and parts of the oven box, and maybe more. I am looking
> to buying one or more other clunkers to get at least one of these historic
> devices operational again. Any help appreciated.
> >
> > John Franke WA4WDL
> > 4500 Ibis Ct
> > Portsmouth, VA 23703
> > ___
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Re: [time-nuts] HP5061B Ion Current

[Pete Lancashire]

Do a search of the list and a few other sites. there is a LOT of
information on what challenges one can have.
And a lot of the information is practical.

As for as pumping a tube down, it took me pretty much a day + a whole
weekend, but it did go down to what was
scribbled on the door, and now takes less than a minute. I only turned mine
on either once every 2-3 months or when
I wanted to use it. Before the current issue of what looks like a power
supply going nuts, I got lock in no more that
203 minutes. If I was not going to use it, I would let it run for 30-45
minutes and shut it down for the next 'pump down'

-pete



On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 4:44 PM, Donald E. Pauly 
wrote:

> This is my first post.  I just bought a non-working HP5061B on eBay
> for $350.  My old boss KB7APQ in Salt Lake City and I are working on
> it.  It came in from the Philipines in October of 2015 and was
> diagnosed with a bad physics package in March 2016 by AllTest in New
> Jersey.  We initially found an open R8 pot on the 5 mc oscillator
> A10A2 which was killing most of the output.
>
> Next we had ion current of about 25 uA which stayed up.  The book
> seems to indicate that this was low enough to enable the cesium oven.
> The analysis of the theoretical ion current for cesium turn on was
> very difficult.  We shorted the base emitter of Q6 on A15 board to
> override Cesium oven disable. The instrument then achieved lock with
> beam current of 20.  Ion current rose to 35 after cesium oven warm up
> and lock.
>
> We have made great progress on the +3500V power supply analysis.  We
> believe that many so called gassy tubes are perfectly functional up to
> 1 mA ion current.  Mean free path is on the order of 142 mm in that
> case or the length of the beam.  We will discuss our findings if there
> is interest.
>
> WB4BBP has been most helpful with our efforts.
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[time-nuts] Early 5065A

[Pete Lancashire]

https://goo.gl/photos/TMKiXxSnQUcsRrRE8

Blown fuse so will wait till have recapped before turning on.

Later this summer will turn into a "Super 5065A"
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Re: [time-nuts] Installing GPS Antenna

[Pete Lancashire]

I pretty much agree on the fittings, only ones designed for outdoor
and contact with copper. Stainless steel, bronze etc.

I disagree about guy wires, Are you in a area that gets winds and
gusts > 30 mph  ? Then I would guy it no matter what, it may even be
code.

Ever get below freezing where you are, that pipe could end up easily
having 10 lbs of ice per foot, thats 200 lbs and then a 5x increase in
wind resistance.

=pete

On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 11:41 PM, Chris Albertson
 wrote:
> Copper?  What an expensive material to use.   Galvanized iron pipe is
> cheaper and very strong.   But even the thinner "type M" copper pipe
> is strong enough if it is 1 1/4" diameter.
>
> You should not need guy wires on such a short mast.   You will need
> likely the proper threaded adaptor to fit the antenna mount.   Run the
> coax antenna lead down the center of the pipe.  Also be sure and
> ground the pipe to a ground rod.   The ground wire needs to be (from
> memory) #8 or larger.   You don't want a 20 foot tall ungrounded
> lightening rod up on the roof.  Electric code requires the ground.
>
> One thing, because you used copper pipe use either copper wire for the
> ground or if using aluminum wire use the special fittings/clamps
> designed for connecting aluminum to copper.
>
> I assume this is an unused chimney?
>
> On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 9:57 PM,   wrote:
>> I have finally ordered a GPSDO (probably get here in April). In the meantime,
>> I have the GPS antenna (Luctel, 26Db). I picked up a 20' solid section of 1 
>> 1/4"
>> copper pipe at the plumbing store with the intention of mounting it to my
>> chimney.
>>
>> My question is about the stability of that mounting. I expect that 16 or 17
>> feet of the pipe will be above the chimney. The weight of the GPS antenna is
>> trivial. The effective cross section area of the pipe is very small as well,
>> so I would think that wind effects would be pretty small even for a good
>> breeze.
>>
>> Will that be sufficiently stable, or will I need to include guy wires? If so,
>> are there any recommendations in that area. I don't really have any 
>> experience
>> putting up antennas. I know that TV antennas are much heavier and, even 
>> though
>> not mounted as high, still 10' or so is common without guy wires.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Michael
>>
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>
>
>
> --
>
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] HP 5061A Cesium Beam Std

[Pete Lancashire]

Search the list for what Paul and I did. There is a web page where someone
did the same forced pump down. If all the voltage s are good you have
nothing to loose. You are going to need a "real" high voltage source.



On Feb 9, 2017 6:01 PM, "David Smith"  wrote:

>
> Hello Time Nuts Friends,
>
> I have acquired an HP 5061A off of EBAY and I believe the cesium beam tube
> may be bad. The ion pump meter pins out and never comes down to a
> reasonable level. I don’t have an external HVPS to check the tube as
> suggested in the manual. I’m thinking the worst here… that the tube is
> probably bad. The seller listed it “For Parts” and the usual “I have no way
> of checking it.” Fortunately, he has a 14 day return policy. He’s offered
> me $400 to keep it. I have $725 in it.
>
> My question to the group is… are there replacement tubes available? Any
> suggestions on what to do with it if I can’t get a replacement tube?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Dave Smith / W6TE
> Sent from Mail for
> Windows 10
>
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[time-nuts] For those that insist on using switching power supplies

[Pete Lancashire]

Although this link

http://www.righto.com/2012/10/a-dozen-usb-chargers-in-lab-apple-is.html

is about the little Line to 5V USB adapters one sees everywhere now days,
it does show how crappy the output looks when one gets a 'bargin'

-pete
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Re: [time-nuts] HP 59309A Clock runs, sets via GPIB, but no GPIB output?

[Pete Lancashire]

Those voltages look a bit too high. Shoot for setting them to their values
or even a couple percent low.
On Oct 7, 2016 5:27 PM, "Mark Spencer"  wrote:

> Hi in the (probably unlikely) event another tester would help I have a
> 59309a and a spare prologix gpib / Ethernet adaptor.
>
> I may try this code out at some point in any event.
>
> Best regards
> Mark S
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Oct 7, 2016, at 5:15 PM, Tom Van Baak  wrote:
> >
> > Hi Bob,
> >
> > Yes, the hp 59309A is a wonderful little LED clock. I just re-tested the
> program I wrote to read/write the time and it still works.
> >
> > For others that are wondering, the code is at
> http://leapsecond.com/tools/hp59309.c and a Win32 exe is there too.
> >
> > Anyway, one possible suggestion is for you to use ++read 10 instead of
> just ++read. The 59309A is an early byte-oriented HP-IB device and the
> Prologix command set is more meant for line oriented communication (using
> CR or LF or EOI for termination). So when I use ++read10 everything is
> fine, but ++read, or ++read9 or ++read11 or ++read anything else will cause
> the Prologix to go into an infinite loop.
> >
> > One other idea that may shed light on your problem is to use the /d
> (debug) option and have a look at the exact communication between the
> program and the Prologix and the 59309A. Then do the same with your Python
> code to see if it matches, down to the byte. Again, these vintage HP-IB
> instruments are wonderfully simple but they don't always take well to
> things we take for granted these days like extraneous line terminators or
> spaces or open-ended reads and such. If you really want some fun, use a
> GPIB bus analyzer.
> >
> > Attached is the debug log from my 59309A.
> >
> > If all else fails I can send you a known working 59309A so you can tell
> if the problem is with your PC, your Python tool, your Prologix, or your
> 59309A.
> >
> > /tvb
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Bob" 
> > To: "TimeNuts" 
> > Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2016 12:56 PM
> > Subject: [time-nuts] HP 59309A Clock runs, sets via GPIB, but no GPIB
> output?
> >
> >
> > I'd like to ask the HP 59309A owners on time-nuts if the following
> symptoms sound familiar, and if so, what would the fix be?
> >
> > o New-to-me HP 59309A clock.
> > o Late build, 1985 date code on many parts.
> > o I replaced the big 1900 uF electrolytic before plugging it in.
> > o Visual inspection very clean, no corrosion, no battery.
> > o 12v reads 13.1v, 5v reads 5.3v, -2v reads -2.9v.
> > o Front panel switches and buttons all work as expected.
> > o Internal and external osc. both work as expected.
> > o Internal "format" switch set to  i.e. comma, cal, no space.
> > o GPIB works to *set* the time, using Prologix Ethernet adapter.
> > o Prologix Ethernet adapter attached directly to the clock, no cables.
> > o Python code to set via GPIB attached below.
> > o Setting time via GPIB always works, tried many times.
> > o Reading time has never worked.  All I get is lots of ASCII
> 444...
> > o Reading with Prologix ++read command
> > o Switches set to 1100010 i.e. Listen, ADDR 2 for normal operation
> > o Tried switches as 010 i.e. Talk Only, also resulted in continuous
> 444...
> > o Tried very long delays between every GPIB command, no change.
> > o Tried removing top cover and running a fan to bring entire clock to
> 21C, no change.
> > o Tried gently reseating the four boards and three socketed PROMS, no
> change.
> >
> > Thanks to TVB for hp59309.c sample Windows Prologix USB code.  I based
> the Python Ethernet code on TVB, to read from the clock he sends command C
> and then ++read.  When I do that all I get are a zillion 0x34 '4'
> characters.
> >
> > Seems strange that all the GPIB commands work.  I tried R reset, P pause
> T resume D day H hour M minute S second manually and they all work just
> fine.  I have never been able to read anything reasonable though.
> >
> > As to the Prologix Ethernet adapter, I believe it is working OK
> electrically as I have been using it for weeks at a time reading PPS time
> intervals from a trusty HP 5334B counter, the adapter has read hundreds of
> thousands times from the 5334B.
> >
> > Is there a trick to using the Prologix to read from the 59309A?
> >
> > I did notice that the 59309A has at least one trick - in TVB's code
> where he reads the Prologix settings and only writes them if they need to
> be changed, that is actually required(!).  Just writing them every time
> seems to put the adapter into a strange state.
> >
> > Page 4-2 of the 59309A manual seems to imply that the "Output State
> Machine" generates the GPIB output messages, using input from the "Data
> Memory".  AFAICT, those two functional blocks are the only ones that are
> not working for me.
> >
> > I think A4U18 ROM is OK as it handles GPIB command decoding and R P T D
> H M S commands all work.
> >
> > A5U15 appears to do the ASCII encoding for

Re: [time-nuts] GPS? Antenna

[Pete Lancashire]

Nemko is the Norwegian "UL", my guess is the numbers are the
test/certification numbers. A picture would help

-pete

On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 5:14 PM, Glenn Little WB4UIV <
glennmaill...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> At the last hamfest that I attended, I bought an antenna that looks like a
> GPS antenna.
> The price was right.
> This is a Nemko Article number: 84097323, Type number 1315.17.0018.
> It has a manufacturing date of 09/2012.
> Can anyone tell me if this is in fact a GPS antenna and what voltage wold
> be required.
> I would suspect that it would be either 5VDC or 3.3 VDC based on the date.
> Any help appreciated.
>
> Thanks
> 73
> Glenn
> WB4UIV
>
> --
> ---
> Glenn LittleARRL Technical Specialist   QCWA  LM 28417
> Amateur Callsign:  WB4UIVwb4...@arrl.netAMSAT LM 2178
> QTH:  Goose Creek, SC USA (EM92xx)  USSVI LM   NRA LM   SBE ARRL TAPR
> "It is not the class of license that the Amateur holds but the class
> of the Amateur that holds the license"
> 
> ---
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[time-nuts] 5061A Beam Current went high

[Pete Lancashire]

I fired up my old 5061A about 3-4 times a year to keep the tube pumped
down. I usually run it for 1 to 2 hours to keep it pumped down.


This time was different,


My GPSs have been off the air from getting a new roof and not being in any
rush to get the antennas back up, etc.


So ... I wanted to calibrate a couple devices for a friend and fired up the
5061A, got it locked "Green Light" and gave him a call.


Up until now, beam current for me has been about 8-10 when peaked. The
number recorded on the door is 19.


He got delayed, and showed up about 8 hours later. We went to the lab, and
the green light was still on, BUT the beam current was around 30.
Everything else was where it was normally which is pretty much was was
recorded on the door long ago.


Any ideas of what I should look for first, before starting from the power
supplies and checking everything ?


-pete
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Re: [time-nuts] controlling instruments using USB

[Pete Lancashire]

here is what the author has to say

https://joeyh.name/code/alien/

On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 7:33 PM, Pete Lancashire
 wrote:
> Never tried this Alien convert RPM to DEB
>
> https://www.howtoforge.com/converting_rpm_to_deb_with_alien
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 6:02 PM, jimlux  wrote:
>> Semi-off-topic..
>>
>> I've got a bunch of Keysight/Agilent/HP instruments with USB interfaces that
>> I want to control from Python.  On Mac and PC, the PyVisa library works
>> great (either the one with the NI back end or the python only back end )
>>
>> But, on Ubuntu, there's no way to install the NI drivers (RH install only,
>> and Ubuntu is debian..)
>>
>> So, I've been doing usbtmc, which sort of works.  (after figuring out all
>> the udev rules stuff)
>>
>> If I do something like this from the python interpreter:
>>
>>>>> import usbtmc
>>>>> myinst = usbtmc.Instrument( mfr, product)
>>>>> myinst.write('some command')
>>
>> it works fine.
>>
>> But if I put the same three linesin a .py file and run it, it doesn't always
>> work.. sometimes, you need to send the command twice.
>>
>> It seems it might be a timing thing (in libusb or usbtmc?) but putting some
>> sleep() in between connecting to the instrument and doing the write doesn't
>> seem to work all the time.
>>
>> Very curious.
>>
>> Any ideas?
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Re: [time-nuts] controlling instruments using USB

[Pete Lancashire]

Never tried this Alien convert RPM to DEB

https://www.howtoforge.com/converting_rpm_to_deb_with_alien



On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 6:02 PM, jimlux  wrote:
> Semi-off-topic..
>
> I've got a bunch of Keysight/Agilent/HP instruments with USB interfaces that
> I want to control from Python.  On Mac and PC, the PyVisa library works
> great (either the one with the NI back end or the python only back end )
>
> But, on Ubuntu, there's no way to install the NI drivers (RH install only,
> and Ubuntu is debian..)
>
> So, I've been doing usbtmc, which sort of works.  (after figuring out all
> the udev rules stuff)
>
> If I do something like this from the python interpreter:
>
 import usbtmc
 myinst = usbtmc.Instrument( mfr, product)
 myinst.write('some command')
>
> it works fine.
>
> But if I put the same three linesin a .py file and run it, it doesn't always
> work.. sometimes, you need to send the command twice.
>
> It seems it might be a timing thing (in libusb or usbtmc?) but putting some
> sleep() in between connecting to the instrument and doing the write doesn't
> seem to work all the time.
>
> Very curious.
>
> Any ideas?
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[time-nuts] Motorla Oldie

[Pete Lancashire]

Saw this guy at GoodWill, but they wanted $25 for it so didn't get it.

Model: A11121Z115

http://petelancashire.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7196

http://petelancashire.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7200

-pete
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Re: [time-nuts] Datum Starloc II GPSDO issues

[Pete Lancashire]

I'm leaning toward Ed's bet. Having done sub contracting in the past,
when we completed modification work ESD requirements were
that the bags either sealed or closed with a static warning label.

On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 10:09 AM, Ed Palmer  wrote:
> On 2016-06-29 10:00 AM, Mark Sims wrote:
>>
>> I don't think so.  The day and year is there, only the month is 0.   The
>> guy selling them has them available in sealed factory case lots.  They look
>> new.  They are in sealed anti-static bags.  My guess is they came from
>> somebody's  product line closeout.
>> I did notice that several of their messages make liberal use of fields
>> that Trimble marks "reserved".
>
>
> Was yours in a sealed bag?  Looking at the auctions, they're described as
> 'New in open bags' or 'may have been opened'.  If I was the suspicious sort
> (oh wait, I am!) I'd suspect that there was a complete changeout of all
> units with fresh ones from the factory - perhaps due to one or more of the
> bugs you've found - and the ones being sold are the bad ones that were
> replaced and then junked.  If there are any that are sealed, they might be
> leftover good units. If you look for pictures of the Starloc II, it's a box
> with, probably, two boards; this one and a power converter, similar to the
> 'retail' version of the Thunderbolt.  It seems odd that a distributor would
> have a boxful of just this board.
>
> Ed
>
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Trimble / Symmetricom UCCM mini-GPSDO boards

[Pete Lancashire]

How about putting the pictures of the TB on a site with overlays
saying what it is, so we know to stay away from the seller with many
names

On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 5:38 PM, skipp Isaham via time-nuts
 wrote:
>
>> From: Mark Sims 
>> Subject: [time-nuts] Trimble / Symmetricom UCCM mini-GPSDO boards
>
>> For those of you that have one of these... good-ish news.   I have Lady 
>> Heather working with
>> them (well, at least the Trimble works,  the Symmetricoms have not arrived 
>> yet and there are
>> a couple of known differences in their commands).  I'll get the code out 
>> there when I have a
>> chance to test it with the Symmetricoms.  They seem to fairly nice little 
>> units.  Not as tweakable
>> / versatile as a Z3801A, etc but quite usable.
>
> A Trimble Thunderbolt with Lady Heather initiated my interest in small 
> micro-controller GPSDO status
> display boards, such as the one sold by (Chris ZL1CVD) on Ebay. I purchased 
> and built the status board
> and am very happy with the results. However, as a course project, a friend 
> and I rewrote a lot of the code to
> include power savings (interrupts) and a few other extras.
>
> "ZL1CVD TSIP GPSDO Thunderbolt Nortel Display (PCB Only)"
> Ebay Item number: 111864779325
>
> Chris's web site for his TSIP board
>
> https://sites.google.com/site/zl1cvd/tsip
>
> Anyway, just an offer to freely share the firmware we developed to hopefully 
> enhance Chris's board.
>
>> For those that are thinking about buying one,  be aware that there are some 
>> pretty skeezy / clueless
>> / dishonest sellers out there.  People have received units with various 
>> parts that have been physically
>> damaged or ripped off the boards.  Apparently one or more of the Chinese 
>> scrappers was less than
>> gentle removing them from whatever it was that they came out of.  EEVBLOG 
>> has a long thread that
>> mentions the Chinese Standard GPSDO Damage Infliction.  A couple of devices 
>> (an inductor, a
>> couple of caps, and some connectors) seem to be the most prone to be 
>> damaged... most damage
>> was easily repaired.   My Trimble came from a seller with a high reported 
>> coefficient of skeezyness,
>> but was in perfect condition.  Oh, and they run on 6V 2A startup,  .8A 
>> warmed up.
>
> I purchased a received dead Thunderbolt from a China based seller, who 
> stalled answer replies over weeks
> and then expired the regular Ebay return policy... Eventually with no return 
> shipping verification signature
> process at their receiving end of the trip, said returned Thunderbolt was of 
> course never credited being "lost
> in transit".
>
> I then received the return credit only because I paid that purchase with my 
> credit card through Paypal.
> Of course, in three weeks the same seller using a different Ebay name put the 
> exact same returned
> defective Thunderbolt back up for auction... I had clearly identifiable 
> pictures of the defective unit I received...
> I reported it to Ebay (wasn't easy) and eventually the auction was taken 
> down. The seller however, remains
> active with current auctions...
>
> Credit where it's due...
> A number of friends and myself have purchased Thunderbolts from the 
> Australian Ebay Seller
> electro_wrench and every one has been received fast and worked very well.
>
> Back to the ZL1CVD GPSDO status PC board kits/parts...
>
> If you have/use one of Chris's GPSDO display status boards or even something 
> similar you developed, you
> are welcome to try our revised firmware/code (Free of course).  Nothing 
> rocket science special but there are
> some novel approaches taken to achieve notable power savings. Developed using 
> WinAVR and AVR Dude
> (both software packages are available on the web... and free).
>
>
> cheers,
>
> skipp
> skipp025 at yahoo dot com
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Re: [time-nuts] HF frequency counting receiver

[Pete Lancashire]

Never tried it but a Selective Level Meter aka HP 3586A/B/C ?

On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 7:51 AM, Nick Sayer via time-nuts
 wrote:
> I'm considering taking a shot at the next ARRL frequency measurement contest.
>
> The assumption going in is that the signal is CW, with at least a half minute 
> or so of just solid "on" at one point or another and that reception is 
> reasonably good.
>
> I've got a good TIA and excellent references, but that's the easy part, it 
> seems to me. It seems to me that what I really need to do is make a 
> synthesized heterodyne receiver that can present an accurately tuned RF band 
> pass - say, 10 kHz wide with the synthesizer set for
> 5 kHz steps - to the TIA, with some manually tunable high-pass and low-pass 
> filtering to isolate the signal of interest. If the mixer got its LO from a 
> synthesizer with a GPSDO reference, it seems to me that you could then 
> measure the frequency of the signal of interest (now an audio frequency, so 
> you can listen to it too) with the TIA (also getting the GPSDO reference) and 
> then do simple math to arrive at the actual RF frequency.
>
> Anybody have any thoughts?
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
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[time-nuts] OT: Anyone near or in State College PA ?

[Pete Lancashire]

-pete
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Re: [time-nuts] Mains Frequency Monitor with the PIC 16F1619

[Pete Lancashire]

Dan,

Nice.

Ideas for the next go around

+ Add a 10 MHz in circuit to replace or override the TCXO. , this is
Time-Nuts you know :-)

+ The SPI could be used as the 2nd I/O port

And if one wants to play more the this part or other pics search on
Google for "Curiosity Board by Microchip"

-pete

On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 5:56 PM, Daniel Watson  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> A few months ago someone on the list made mention of the PIC 16F1619,
> prompting me to order a few to check out. It's an interesting little chip
> with some nice peripherals. I decided to do a mains frequency monitor
> project using it. The project is not quite complete, but you can read about
> my progress so far on my blog:
>
> Part 1:
> http://syncchannel.blogspot.com/2016/05/designing-mains-frequency-monitor-part-1.html
>
> Part 2:
> http://syncchannel.blogspot.com/2016/06/designing-mains-frequency-monitor-part-2.html
>
>
> Any feedback and suggestions are welcome.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Dan W.
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Re: [time-nuts] Anyone have an HP5060A sitting around?

[Pete Lancashire]

Somewhat available, the 'lab' is without power due to a complete house
rewiring project.

But if it just something I could do with a Fluke, I could help

You can contact me off line ...

-pete

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 9:48 AM, paul swed  wrote:

> Corby
> Not sure I can help. I have my frankenstein 5061 in a 5060 with home brew
> oven controller. I pulled the old controller out. Is it that you need
> measurements on the controller or with the tube also. If its with a tube I
> don't believe my measurements would be helpful.
> Regards
> Paul
>
> On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 11:26 AM,  wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I need a couple resistance readings at the A11 oven controller jack.
> >
> > Does anyone have one available that they could measure for me?
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Corby
> >
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[time-nuts] Unique little dewar insulated oven & Bliley crystal

[Pete Lancashire]

Found this weekend

http://petelancashire.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7059

Anyone know where it was used ?

-pete
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Re: [time-nuts] 2016 W.G. Cady award

[Pete Lancashire]

Some info on Cady

http://www.ieee-uffc.org/main/memorial-cady.asp

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Guyton_Cady

http://ethw.org/Walter_G._Cady

http://amhistory.si.edu/archives/AC0046.pdf




On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 9:03 AM, Pete Lancashire
 wrote:
> Congratulations
>
> -pete
>
> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 4:43 AM, Bernd Neubig  wrote:
>> Thank you for the congratulations.
>> I am very pleased to have received this prestigious award named after Walter 
>> G. Cady, the guy who has built the first crystal oscillator in 1921.
>>
>> Bernd Neubig
>>
>> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
>> Von: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] Im Auftrag von Dr. Ulrich 
>> Rohde via time-nuts
>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 11. Mai 2016 16:36
>> An: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
>> Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] 2016 W.G. Cady award
>>
>> From me too , Ulrich N 1ul
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On May 11, 2016, at 8:46 AM, Magnus Danielson  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Goes to Bernd W. Neubig!
>>>
>>> Congratulations Bernd!
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Magnus
>>> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] 2016 W.G. Cady award

[Pete Lancashire]

Congratulations

-pete

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 4:43 AM, Bernd Neubig  wrote:
> Thank you for the congratulations.
> I am very pleased to have received this prestigious award named after Walter 
> G. Cady, the guy who has built the first crystal oscillator in 1921.
>
> Bernd Neubig
>
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] Im Auftrag von Dr. Ulrich 
> Rohde via time-nuts
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 11. Mai 2016 16:36
> An: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
> Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] 2016 W.G. Cady award
>
> From me too , Ulrich N 1ul
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On May 11, 2016, at 8:46 AM, Magnus Danielson  
>> wrote:
>>
>> Goes to Bernd W. Neubig!
>>
>> Congratulations Bernd!
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Magnus
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
> ___
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> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
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[time-nuts] OT: A paper on Cs + Zeeman etc.

[Pete Lancashire]

Even though nothing to do with time, I found the paper

CESIUM OPTICALLY PUMPED MAGNETOMETERS

http://www.gserentals.co.uk/gse/pdf/Theory%20Cesium%20Optically%20Pumped%20Magnetometers.pdf

to be an interesting read.

I can only imagine what HP and Varian engineers went through

-pete
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Re: [time-nuts] HP 5360A History?

[Pete Lancashire]

Tom

Add to your list

http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/abouthp/histnfacts/publications/measure/pdf/1969_06.pdf



On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 12:57 PM, Tom Van Baak  wrote:

> John,
>
> I agree with Paul, an absolutely amazing instrument. The early models have
> nixie display, later ones plasma. 11 digits! In 1969! It was the first hp
> instrument that was capable enough to compute stability statistics. In
> real-time! Like Paul I have a couple, along with various the accessories.
> Built like a tank, even the keyboard.
>
> You'll find mention of the counter in old technical articles, sometimes
> including the programs people would write for automated statistics. I've
> always thought the 5360 was uniquely at the cross-roads between hp as an
> instrument company and hp as a computer company (not to mention hp as a
> printer ink company). You can see the DNA of each of these in the 5360 &
> its accessories.
>
> You were probably reading this major 5360A Computing Counter issue:
>
> http://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs/IssuePDFs/1969-05.pdf
>
> Here's all about the 5375A keyboard:
>
> http://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs/IssuePDFs/1970-03.pdf
>
> And this is where the diode and punch card interface is shown, as well as
> ADEV from 1 us to 1 s (see page 4, fig 4).
>
> http://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs/IssuePDFs/1970-12.pdf
>
> More on ADEV on the 5360:
>
> http://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs/IssuePDFs/1971-11.pdf
>
> Select high-res page scans from my own hardcopy HPJ collection are here:
>
> http://www.leapsecond.com/hpj/
>
> For example, the 79-step ADEV program is here:
>
> http://www.leapsecond.com/hpj/v22n4/v22n4p10.jpg
>
> Finally, do not miss HP AN116 "Precision Frequency Measurements":
>
> http://www.hpmemoryproject.org/an/pdf/an_116.pdf
>
> /tvb
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "John Ackermann N8UR" 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 9:38 AM
> Subject: [time-nuts] HP 5360A History?
>
>
> >I was browsing through the HP Journal archives and came across the May,
> > 1969 issue, dedicated to the new 5360A Computing Counter -- "An
> > Electronic Counter for the 1970s!"
> >
> > I don't recall hearing much about these in time-nuts lore.  I can guess
> > from the Journal articles that it was a beast to keep running and was
> > very expensive (500 ICs and a 10A 5V power supply).
> >
> > Is anyone here familiar with the story of this product?
> >
> > John
>
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Re: [time-nuts] HP 5360A History?

[Pete Lancashire]

As part of my oldies collection I've ended up with three of them. One
works, the other two are nixie and I think it has Beckman/Sperry's
but could be LED's. I got the 2nd and 3rd one them when I was offered a
keyboard for the cost of a 200/200 mile road trip.

It took a bit of work to get the first one to work, but I'm still amazed at
what it must of taken to design. The keyboard is in it self quite
complex. I forget the IC package count after you add the keyboard and TI
plugin. I've never powered up the other two.

There's a article somewhere that talks about how it came about and how it
did not get canceled. From a fuzzy memory HP was surprised
that even with a $10K price they sold, either Bill or Dave were advised to
cancel the project due to its growing cost and complexity but
decided to keep it going in that HP would learn about designing with logic.
I have an internal HP logic design class notebook and it looks
like the 5360A might have been the seed for the class.

I'll see if I can dig up the article/URL.

The only thing I don't have is an original cable to connect the keyboard.
Multi conductor small round cable is getting pretty hard to find now days.





On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 11:45 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist <
rich...@karlquist.com> wrote:

> This product came out in the early '70's when I was working
> for Boeing.  The company bought several and they were
> very popular.  This was an amazing advance for the time,
> to be able to measure short term stability so easily.
> This was before HPIB, so you couldn't easily connect a
> counter to a computer.
> As far as reliability is concerned, at least the unit
> I used never had any problems.  Everyone loved it.
>
> Fast forward to 1979.  I get hired by the HP Santa
> Clara Division.  I didn't work in one of the frequency
> counter sections, but they were located right next to
> me and I interacted with them during donut time.  (This
> was during the time that HP famously served free
> donuts at coffee break time).
>
> To my shock, I found that everyone at HP hated the 5360.
> I guess the complexity was a resource hog.  It was
> developed at least 10 years before PC-CAD systems came
> to Santa Clara, so the schematic was hand drawn and
> the PC board layout was with mylar tape.  The boards
> were hand loaded and wave soldered.  I did a 100 IC
> board that way with 8 layers and the checking alone
> took a whole week.
>
> It seemed to be lumped with a hated logic analzyer
> that was derisively referred to as the "logic furnace".
>
> It might have been one of those "image" products that
> made Bill Hewlett look good but the division loses
> money on it.  The 5071 was one of those, although
> the division didn't actually lose money on it.
> They just made less than they ostensibly could have
> on their preferred products.
>
> Rick
>
>
> On 4/13/2016 9:38 AM, John Ackermann N8UR wrote:
>
>> I was browsing through the HP Journal archives and came across the May,
>> 1969 issue, dedicated to the new 5360A Computing Counter -- "An
>> Electronic Counter for the 1970s!"
>>
>> I don't recall hearing much about these in time-nuts lore.  I can guess
>> from the Journal articles that it was a beast to keep running and was
>> very expensive (500 ICs and a 10A 5V power supply).
>>
>> Is anyone here familiar with the story of this product?
>>
>> John
>> ___
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>>
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Re: [time-nuts] Looking for specs/info on a HP/Symmetricom Z3833B

[Pete Lancashire]

Thanks everyone, it has been purchased by someone ..

On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 4:12 PM, Steve D  wrote:

> If it is like the 58540A or 58533A it will talk 9600/8/n/1 SCPI but it will
> have fewer commands then the 3801 etc.
>
> On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 11:55 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:
>
> > Hi
> >
> > Judging by what can be seen in the eBay listing pictures: That is a mid
> > 1990’s design. I would
> > *guess* that the same i/o (baud rates, basic commands) that works with a
> > 3801 would work with it.
> > Given it’s physical resemblance to a TBolt … it might talk to LH …
> >
> > Fortunately the power connector is labeled. You don’t have to randomly
> > guess at the supply
> > voltage and current.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > > On Apr 10, 2016, at 11:02 AM, Pete Lancashire  >
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > So far found Zip
> > >
> > > -pete
> > > ___
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[time-nuts] Looking for specs/info on a HP/Symmetricom Z3833B

[Pete Lancashire]

So far found Zip

-pete
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[time-nuts] Replacement Oncore Modules - all gone for now

[Pete Lancashire]

The demand has been much more then I expected, and didn't expect almost
everyone one to want two.

I had no idea there were so many old HP units out there.

I do not know if I can fulfil all the requests. Packages will be sent FIFS
"First In First Shipped".

Again if I do not have an address that the Post Office will ship to, I
can't ship it.
If you are not in the US or Canada, I'll contact you on what the cost will
be.


For those that maybe just looking for a receiver, by today's standards
these things are not all that great. Don't be disappointed. I suggest
getting something newer.

I'll start boxing the ones I have pulled this week, and then next week
start pulling apart more of the devices the modules are in.

Regards,

-pete
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[time-nuts] Replacement Motorola 8 channel Oncores will start shipping in two weeks

[Pete Lancashire]

Sorry for all the delays, have a lot of things going on

I'f you have already notified me make sure I have an address the USPS will
send a box to.

If someone still want one, I will need to know by Wednesday the 6th.

If you can take modules that do not have the right angle antenna connector
please let me know. This will ensure there are enough for those that do. So
far right angle versions are running around 1/3 of what I've pulled.

Price will be $5 each to members of this list, with a limit of two per
person at that price. Shipping to an address in the US will be in a USPS
Small Flat Rate box, which currently is $6.80. The box will hold two
without any issues.

If outside the US the cost will have to be figured out.

Regards

-pete
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[time-nuts] Update on Oncores that can be used in Z3801A

[Pete Lancashire]

My 'evaluator' (thanks Dave) has seen a mechanical interference
issue with the modules with a straight antenna connector.

But other then that so far there have not been any issues.

As stated before these are pulls from NIB obsolete hand held surveying
system.

http://petelancashire.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=5249

They are the 8 channel vs the 6 version that was used in the Z3801A.

Like the choke ring antennas, I'm offering the first batch to time-nuts
members for cheap, $10 each + shipping.

A couple have asked what it costs to ship the whole surveying unit, I'll
find out, and take a few more pictures. There are no battery packs,
bags,etc. The best pictures are on Ebay, search for "CMT March II". BTW
since they don't have built in DGPS or equivalent, they are useless for
surveying.

With the news of the connector interference being a issue it will be
another one to two weeks before I can say they will be ready.

I update when I'm ready.

The remaining thing I need to find is shipping boxes, where is live is not
a great place to find such things in bulk at reasonable prices. I'm looking
for a box close to the size if the USPS small flat rate box or a bit
smaller. If someone knows where one can get 50-100 of them at a good
delivered (i.e. with shipping) let me know.

-pete
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Re: [time-nuts] Unix software to generate nice looking *DEV plots

[Pete Lancashire]

Give rrdtool a shot. Many of the open source packages that have time series
based plots use it.

http://oss.oetiker.ch/rrdtool/gallery/index.en.html

it is both the data storage, conditioning and graphing all in one

On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 3:29 AM, Attila Kinali  wrote:

> Moin,
>
> I'm looking for some non-GUI software to generate the different *DEV
> plots we generally use to asses oscillators with. Timelab is nice,
> but if you are evaluating two dozen measurements using different
> parameters, it becomes very tedious to generate the plots. Not
> to talk about the problem that the plots are not really reproducable,
> which is a very important property, when publishing results.
>
> I could for sure write myself wrappers around
> gnuplot/ploticus/mathplotlib/..
> to generate the *DEV plots, but I'm not keen on reinventing the wheel.
>
> Thus I'd like to ask whether someone has any hints on what to use.
>
> Attila Kinali
>
> --
> It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All
> the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no
> use without that foundation.
>  -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
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Re: [time-nuts] Fw: 5065

[Pete Lancashire]

Anywhere there is a concentration of HAMs you should be able to find the
connector. I found the one for my 5061 at a ham swapmeet and found another
for a friend by asking a few hams who were the 'collector' type.

On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 10:54 AM, paul swed  wrote:

> Both good answers the old connect to the bottom, and my favorite get the
> connector. I used both methods. Connected to the bottom, fixed the unit,
> purchased the real connector. It was something like $18 or $30.
> Search time nuts because 2 years ago someone figured out the model numbers
> and source. Something like greybar as the supplier. The same connector also
> works on the HP cesiums. I pulled the connector off but unfortunately no
> useful numbers.
> It can be strapped for either voltage and as suggested get the manual from
> Artek.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
>
> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp 
> wrote:
>
> > 
> > In message , "Tom Van Baak"
> writes:
> >
> > With respect to 120/240VAC, the 5065 I have is jumpered for 5065, the
> > manual
> > (available from Artek) has the details.
> >
> > --
> > Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
> > p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
> > FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
> > Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by
> incompetence.
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[time-nuts] For those of us that did the CPU upgrade for the 5370

[Pete Lancashire]

http://linuxgizmos.com/beefed-up-beaglebone-black-clone-launches-on-indiegogo/
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Re: [time-nuts] Rubidium Frequency Standard

[Pete Lancashire]

Corby mentioned one very important thing .. what are you going to be using
it for ?

and I'll ask what is your budget ?

That will determine quite a bit.

-pete

On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 11:02 AM,  wrote:

> Mike,
>
> Luciano is correct. The HP 5065A beats all the others easily.
>
> It is not configured however to be disciplined  although it can be
> modified.
>
> It's main claim to fame is the excellent short term stability.
>
> If all you are after is a long term accuracy standard then any of the
> others would work.
>
> There has been a lot of work done with disciplining the FE-5680 and also
> temperature controlling its baseplate.
>
> Results are very good!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Corby Dawson
>
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[time-nuts] Anyone have an old Ardin catalog ?

[Pete Lancashire]

Been going though some stuff from an estate

http://petelancashire.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=5698

(click on photo to see full resolution)

Only 3 pins so nothing fancy

-pete
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[time-nuts] At least one semi time-nuts find from recent Ham swap meet - Datum 9150-719

[Pete Lancashire]

http://petelancashire.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=5629

FRK is said to be intermittent, but for $25 I took the chance
and it even came with the AC power cord !

Anyone have the manual for the 719 variation of the 9150 ?
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Re: [time-nuts] Downsizing - Which GPSDO To Keep?

[Pete Lancashire]

my vote Thunderbolt

known entity, well studied

On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Jerry  wrote:

> I have been a wannabe Time Nut for several years but work has kept me
> chained.  I started collecting different GPSDO's over the years thinking I
> would play with all of them once I retired.  Now as I approach that
> crossroad, I find I have to downsize and some things need to go.  Could
> someone help me rank the following to decide on the top two to keep?  All
> are in great shape and work fine - I had the Thunderbolt and Lady Heather
> going for the past few years with my ham radio gear and as an external
> source for my workbench.  I also had the Lucent pair working fine with some
> software I came across (and shared with some on this reflector.
>
>
>
> Thunderbolt
>
> Samsung GCRU-002
>
> Lucent RFTGm-II-XO and RFTGM-II-Rb pair
>
> GPSR-A (with HP hockey puck 10Mhz Osc)
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance for any advice
>
>
>
> Jerry K1JOS
>
>
>
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[time-nuts] Can someone ID this GPS board ?

[Pete Lancashire]

Another $1 wasted :-)

Found a few referneces to it being for automotive use and the GPS module is
made by/for JRC.

Anyone have a data on the module or the board ?

http://petelancashire.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=5606

http://petelancashire.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=5609

-pete
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Re: [time-nuts] Inside a CTS 1960017 OCXO

[Pete Lancashire]

Pretty much agree with Dave M. But just like HP, PDI had their basic
supplies and their 'low noise/ripple' models, and of course the model with
the heater for voltage stability. The one Dave is talking about has a temp
controlled voltage reference. The easiest way to tell is there is
a 'HEATER' light on the front panel.

I'll toss in a 3rd company, Kepco. So for me its PDI, Kepco, and a HP.

Sounds like I should finish that web page I started of the low noise/ripple
models from the three makes.



On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 7:25 PM, Dave M  wrote:

> Pete Lancashire wrote:
>
>> ... I was using an HP lab supply>>>
>>
>> Model ? Age ?
>>
>> My bench has some pretty old HP's even Harrison Lab branded supplies.
>> I
>> have had to re-cap a few of them.
>> In a way it is almost a curse how reliable their supplies were. You
>> always got the V and I you wanted so one
>> never thought about the filtering getting worse over the years.
>>
>> Also HP had two variations of their bench supplies. The basic ones
>> and the low noise versions. When I need
>> to make measurement like this, I make sure I'm using one of the low
>> noise/ripple models.
>>
>>
> Adding my few cents' worth to the power supply ripple/noise thoughts, I've
> found that the old linear supplies by Power Designs Inc were among the
> best, at considerably lower cost than the HP/Harrison Labs units.
> Ripple/Noise in the low millivolts and high microvolts, 0.01 - 0.005%
> regulation and temperature stability in the neighborhood of 0.01%/degC were
> common.
> I have a couple on my bench, and they just keep on working.  They still
> pop up at auction frequently.
>
> Cheers,
> Dave M
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Inside a CTS 1960017 OCXO

[Pete Lancashire]

... I was using an HP lab supply>>>

Model ? Age ?

My bench has some pretty old HP's even Harrison Lab branded supplies. I
have had to re-cap a few of them.
In a way it is almost a curse how reliable their supplies were. You always
got the V and I you wanted so one
never thought about the filtering getting worse over the years.

Also HP had two variations of their bench supplies. The basic ones and the
low noise versions. When I need
to make measurement like this, I make sure I'm using one of the low
noise/ripple models.

Another thing that is pretty easy to eliminate is radiated 60 Hz. Build a
cell (box). A very simple disposable one
can be from a corrugated box, aluminum foil, and a few feed through
connections.

Any lighting not based on piece of tungsten wire ?

On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 1:07 PM, Rob Sherwood.  wrote:

> I cannot say exactly, as I measured it as 59 Hz.  VA7OJ measured it as 60
> Hz.  I was using an HP lab supply, and Adam was using some other lab
> supply.  I put a 500 uF capacitor across the Vcc pin and it had no effect.
> I don't think it has anything to do with the power supply since both of us
> saw the same thing.  If an attachment will go through this reflector, I can
> post a spectrum analyzer screen shot.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of jimlux
> Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2016 12:07 PM
> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Inside a CTS 1960017 OCXO
>
>
>
> On 2/27/16 9:35 AM, Rob Sherwood. wrote:
> > Hi Dan,
> >
> > I purchased two of these, and VA7OJ one.  One of mine is defective, and
> the seller is going to replace it.  What was disappointing was all the
> spurious at 60 Hz intervals relatively close-in to the 10 MHz carrier.  I
> suppose if all one wants is a reasonably accurate 10 MHz, then they work
> OK.  My good one and Adam's unit were 1x10^7 low in frequency once warmed
> up, and there are pins for frequency adjustment and sync to another
> standard.  However if one wanted it for an oscillator with good close-in
> phase noise, the spurs ruin that hope.
> >
> > Do you know if there is a chopper at 60 Hz that runs the proportional
> oven that is the source of all the spurious?
> >
>
>
> Is it right at line frequency, or is it "close" to 60 Hz?
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Z3801 Update with VP-Oncore 8Ch receiver

[Pete Lancashire]

So far it seems one can 'drop in' a 8 channel module and it will as a
minimum
been seen as a 6 channel.

Once I can come up with a reliable and safe way to ship, antistatic and
minimal
crushability, and a less time consuming way of getting the module out of
the old surveying hand held I'll make some of them available to the list
members
for say $5 each + shipping to cover the cost of taking the handheld apart,
packaging (looking around $1-2). I'll also figure out the shipping for a
complete
handheld minus the battery pack which I don't have any for those that like
to
take things apart. About the only thing is a magnetic mount antenna, the LCD
panel was custom although is just the usual Hitachi chip set.

Maybe a couple months from now, got a lot of other stuff going.

There is also a long shot some more of the choke rings antennas maybe found,
if so, I'll make them available for the same price I did before.

-pete



On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 4:11 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:

> Hi
>
> Part of the way through the development of the modules, they started
> adding various commands. Eventually
> that changed the way things worked enough that it no longer is a “little
> bit longer string” sort of thing.
>
> Bob
>
> > On Feb 7, 2016, at 10:33 PM, Frederick Bray 
> wrote:
> >
> > This brings up a question that I have been wondering about.  Has anyone
> tried using one of the Synergy M12/adaptor board assemblies as an update in
> the Z3801 or similar unit?  If the original firmware just ignores the extra
> data, perhaps the Synergy unit might work? They are quite inexpensive on
> the used market.
> >
> > See:
> >
> >
> http://www.synergy-gps.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=173&Itemid=115
> >
> > As a further upgrade, might it be possible to replace the M12 receiver
> unit on the Synergy board with a Jackson Labs M12M replacement receiver?
> While the additional data would be lost / ignored, the superior
> characteristics of the Jackson Labs unit could prove helpful.
> >
> > Thanks for any information.
> >
> > Fred Bray
> > KE6CD
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Re: [time-nuts] Z3801 misbehaving

[Pete Lancashire]

I have a long shot.

If you really do not think it is not anything to do with not getting a
signal into the 3801, antenna, cable, connectors etc. I may have a
replacement GPS module but will have to be confirmed by the group.

The module is a 8 Channel Motorola Oncore

http://petelancashire.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=5249

I'll send you one if you want to try it out. Only 'cost' I ask is it work
let me know.

-pete









On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 6:52 AM, John Green  wrote:

> After a couple of days of GPS lock, it went into holdover. I briefly
> powered it down and it attained lock again in about 15 minutes. But, a
> while later, it was back in holdover. I finally coaxed that Sager laptop
> into working and after connecting to it with genuine RS232, I still can't
> communicate with it. I get zip with Satstat. And, it isn't locking again
> either. So, while it will achieve GPS lock, it doesn't seem to want to stay
> locked. And, there is that troubling lack of communication. I am
> considering trying a different GPS receiver module. I understand that
> probably isn't smart unless I try one similar to the one in it. I
> understand that the internal processor talks to the GPS module and anything
> with a different command set will cause it to think the GPS has gone bad.
> At this point, it looks like my options are limited to buying a new, used
> one off eBay for $500, or going to the Thunderbolt, which I don't trust. I
> have an old desktop PC I am going to try just in case the laptop RS232
> voltages weren't up to snuff. And, I am going to try a different cable,
> just in case. It probably wouldn't hurt to exercise the RS232 jumpers
> either. Anything else I should try?
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Re: [time-nuts] Looking for any information on a Leica MX 9400R

[Pete Lancashire]

Made a mistake, the I/F connector is a DB-25. But still 4xRS-232 (maybe?)

On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 11:16 AM, Pete Lancashire 
wrote:

> Found very little.
>
> http://petelancashire.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=5273
>
> 12 channel receiver and a few other bits of information.
>
> 4 RS-232 interfaces all come out of a DC-37 (the same
> profile as the DB-25 but 37 pins)
>
> -pete
>
>
>
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[time-nuts] Looking for any information on a Leica MX 9400R

[Pete Lancashire]

Found very little.

http://petelancashire.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=5273

12 channel receiver and a few other bits of information.

4 RS-232 interfaces all come out of a DC-37 (the same
profile as the DB-25 but 37 pins)

-pete
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[time-nuts] Looking for info on a Leica MX 9400R

[Pete Lancashire]

http://petelancashire.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=5273

Unit was rebranded as a CMT GPS-L4 (local outfit long closed up)

An old web page

http://www.cmtinc.com/fieldcmp/gpsbase.html


-pete
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[time-nuts] May have asked before - any one have a dead 5061 Cs tube you don't want ?

[Pete Lancashire]

Dead as in out of Cs, but not damaged.

-pete
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Re: [time-nuts] 5335a opt 40

[Pete Lancashire]

No need to upload on,. Didier has a very nice scan set, low and high res,
proms, even sales lit.

-pete

On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 9:09 AM, Lizeth Norman 
wrote:

> Hosting manuals is a non starter. Past history says it's easy to have
> an individual steal this sort of thing for fun and profit, or just
> remove the credit.
>
> This is free. As in air.
>
> On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 7:24 AM, Attila Kinali  wrote:
> > On Sun, 17 Jan 2016 15:02:43 -0500
> > Lizeth Norman  wrote:
> >
> >> Who wants a scanned copy of the manual?
> >
> > I think the best would be to upload it to Didier's manual site:
> > http://www.ko4bb.com/getsimple/index.php?id=manuals
> >
> > Attila Kinali
> >
> > --
> > It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All
> > the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no
> > use without that foundation.
> >  -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
> > ___
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[time-nuts] Possible 5372A available .. my usual luck

[Pete Lancashire]

I've been lucking for a 5372A with option 020 (fast memory i/o). Well two
5372A's showed up on the Eplace and one had option 020,the other didn't I
bid and won.

They shipped me the one wrong one.

The seller has offered to have me ship it back but before I do, is anyone
interested ?

I paid just over $220 for it.

I'm going to ask the seller to consider meeting half way on it, if not I
can either send it
back for a full refund or offer it here, I'm in Portland OR and it is HEAVY,

-pete
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[time-nuts] Picture of the HP Flying Clock in its seat on TWA

[Pete Lancashire]

http://dsx.weather.com//util/image/w/024twc_vintageairtravel_980x551.jpg?v=at&w=980&h=551&api=7db9fe61-7414-47b5-9871-e17d87b8b6a0

source

http://www.weather.com/travel/commuter-conditions/news/vintage-air-travel-photos-20130513
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[time-nuts] For those that use or thinking of using the Beagle Bone Black

[Pete Lancashire]

There is a spin of the board minus HDMI, It is called
the BB Green, and is $20 cheaper.

-pete
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Re: [time-nuts] Novatel ProPak-V3 GPSDO

[Pete Lancashire]

I just looked at current and past sale, do you have an example ?

I only see two Propacks  1's  that someone has been trying to sell for
quite a long time, and one V3



On Fri, Dec 25, 2015 at 3:35 AM, Ole Petter Ronningen  wrote:

> Hello
>
> I'm sure many of you have noticed quite a few surplus NOS Novatel OEM-V3
> L1-only units appearing on eBay lately. Reading the firmware manual, it
> seems the ProPak is capable of steering an external oscillator with the
> addition of a filtered chargepump circuit. Has anyone made any experiments
> using this functionality?
>
> Also, a couple of labs (APL and USNO) use ProPak-V3 receivers to
> participate in TAI, by the use of PPP. BIPM has a little information about
> the ProPak (calibration procedures), but other than that I have not found
> much information about the configuration of the receiver in this particular
> setting. Any clues would be appreciated.
>
> (In case anyone is interested - the receiver can be software upgraded to
> also track L2 - the license is north of USD2K..)
>
> Thanks,
> Ole
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[time-nuts] Anyone know what a Symmetricon Z3838A is ?

[Pete Lancashire]

-pete
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Re: [time-nuts] SMD TADD-1 distribution amplifier - seeking comments and suggestions?

[Pete Lancashire]

When I used a Lead acid battery as a low noise and isolated power source I
raided the kitchen. Put the batter inside
a polyethylene container they type with a 'snap tight' lid. Then found in
my junk a nylon barb to threaded fitting and
some Tygon tubing to create an external vent. In another junk box a sealed
MS socket and its mating plug.

It solved three things venting to where it didn't matter, sealed becoming
not sealed and puking and solving
shorting from touching things.





On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 7:22 AM, Chuck Harris  wrote:

> One of my other hats involves advising electronics scrap and
> recycling companies, and the repair of all manner of electronics
> equipment.
>
> In all of the equipment I have rummaged through I can state the
> following without reservation:
>
> I have never seen any sign of damage caused by properly float charged
> sealed lead acid batteries.
>
> I have seen lots of serious damage caused by trickle charged nicads.
>
> I have seen some very serious damage caused by lithium iodide pacemaker
> cells at end-of-life.
>
> I have seen lots of damage caused by carbon-zinc, and alkaline cells.
>
> Lithium ion cells behave like electrolytic capacitors.  They want to
> have their initial inrush current limited to about 1C, and they must
> have their final charge voltage limited to 4.2V.  They will tolerate
> being floated at 4.2V for quite a while, but that will ultimately lead
> to their capacity being compromised.
>
> A simple backup charger for a LiIon cell would be a constant voltage,
> current roll back supply that is controlled by a timer that charges
> the cell every time power is restored, and several times a year if
> power doesn't fail.
>
> Discharge must be abruptly stopped when the cell voltage drops below
> around 2V... the exact value varies by the manufacturer.
>
> -Chuck Harris
>
>
> Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) wrote:
>
>> On 17 Dec 2015 21:00, "Anders Wallin" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> First prototype assembled today, tested with 12 VDC SMPS wall-wart supply
>>> and with 12 V lead-acid battery.
>>>
>>
>> Anders
>>>
>>
>> Is the lead acid battery supposed to be there so the unit continues to
>> function if power is removed?
>>
>> If do, I believe that the choice of a lead acid battery is a poor one.  I
>> believe that even the sealed ones release very small amounts of sulphuric
>> acid and when contained in equipment the acid results in damage in the
>> long-term. I believe that people have reported damage to oscillators like
>> the HP 10811A even on this list.
>>
>> I believe NiCd would be a better choice.  That said I somewhere read they
>> were banned in Europe but that might have been for general consumer use,
>> as
>> I note that they are still shipped in some products - e.g. sone emergency
>> lights I bought in the UK from Farnell,  although the lights were made in
>> China. One can certainly still buy NiCd cells in Europe.
>>
>> I don't know if there is any simple way of slowly charging Lithium Metal
>> Hydride batteries. Commercial chargers from reputable manufacturers have
>> temperature sensors, voltage sensors and I assume a microprocessor to
>> determine how to charge them and when to stop charging.  You don't need to
>> fast-charge a distribution amplifier,  but I don't know if there's any
>> relatively simple way of charging them.
>>
>> Dave.
>>
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[time-nuts] Fwd: UTC Leap Seconds to Continue Until at Least 2023

[Pete Lancashire]

-- Forwarded message --
From: Richard B. Langley 
Date: Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 7:08 AM
Subject: UTC Leap Seconds to Continue Until at Least 2023
To: cansp...@listserv.unb.ca


Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) to retain “leap second”

New reference time scale to be considered by World Radiocommunication
Conference in 2023

Geneva, 19 November 2015 – The ITU World Radiocommunication Conference
(WRC-15), currently in session in Geneva from 2 to 27 November, has decided
that further studies are required on the impact and application of a future
reference time-scale, including the modification of coordinated universal
time (UTC) and suppressing the so-called “leap second”.

More: https://www.itu.int/net/pressoffice/press_releases/2015/53.aspx

-
| Richard B. LangleyE-mail: l...@unb.ca
 |
| Geodetic Research Laboratory  Web: http://gge.unb.ca/
 |
| Dept. of Geodesy and Geomatics EngineeringPhone:+1 506 453-5142
 |
| University of New Brunswick   Fax:  +1 506 453-4943
 |
| Fredericton, N.B., Canada  E3B 5A3
|
|Fredericton?  Where's that?  See: http://www.fredericton.ca/
 |
-

[To unsubscribe from CANSPACE, send the following message to <
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Re: [time-nuts] Downsizing dilemma, HP 3335A

[Pete Lancashire]

Tektronix (long before being a division of Danaher) up to at least the mid
70's would require an EE to
work in production. I understand some HP divisions did the same. All that
started to change when
'software' engineers were showing up.





On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 5:56 PM, KA2WEU--- via time-nuts  wrote:

> I know Zoya for many years, this ham business is a good idea.Give her my
> best regards , Ulrich
>
>
> In a message dated 11/11/2015 7:00:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> r...@nc0b.com writes:
>
> The EE  department at the University of Colorado has an enlightened
> professor.
>
> http://ecee.colorado.edu/faculty/popovic.html
>
> Zoya required her  students to not only get a ham license, but to build a
> Norcal 40A.
>
> http://ecee.colorado.edu/~ecen2420/Files/NorCal40A_Manual.pdf
>
>
> Most  of the EE students had no idea what a resistor really was, let alone
> have any  experience in soldering a resistor or capacitor on a PC board.
> One
> student  stuffed the PC board, bent all the leads 90 degrees without
> cutting any of  them off, and then in effect flow soldered the whole
> bottom of the
> PC  board!
>
> One wonders how EE grads today can actually get a job and be  productive
> with so little hands-on experience.
>
> Zoya belongs to the  Boulder (Colorado) Amateur Radio Club, and our monthly
> meetings are in the EE  department. It is too bad this is likely an unusual
> example of what happens on  campuses today.
>
> Rob
> NC0B
>
>
> -Original  Message-
> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf  Of Pete
> Lancashire
> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2015 10:01 AM
> To:  Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> Subject: Re:  [time-nuts] Downsizing dilemma, HP 3335A
>
>
>
> I can understand the  downsizing, someday it will happen to me. And where I
> live there is pretty  much zero interest in anything electronic. The two
> local schools Portland  State and Reed both have EE but the students done
> seem
> to have any interest in  anything physical. they believe everything they
> need or have interest in can  be simulated on a computer. I helped one of
> the
> PSU EE's one day, just  finished his 2nd year, had an old Kenwood stereo
> distorted left output. He  pretty much had no idea what to do, and when
> 'we'
> found the bad transistor, he  didn't really know how to replace it.
>
> BTW I know a Comp Sci graduate  from PSU that can not write a program in
> any language that outputs "Hello  World"
>
> -pete Sad
>
> On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 5:08 AM, paul swed   wrote:
>
> > Bill
> > It is unfortunate  when the time comes to downsize. Even worse as time
> > goes by at least  for me each piece of test equipment from HP seems to
> > get heavier.  Must be dust building up inside. So as Ed says if you
> > need that fine  grain resolution you need them.
> > But you are also running into the age  thing in the gear and that there
> > are failures that creep in that are  really a big problem to figure out.
> > Especially if some form of  programmable logics involved.
> > Lastly sending them to the dumpster is  the worst thing. But then the
> > ole reality really sets in selling  packing and shipping the stuff.
> > I guess the good news is that today  there is a lot of replacement gear
> > that will do reasonably well thats  cheap respectively consumes little
> > power and can easily be controlled  by usb so you don't have to
> > actually stop experimenting.
> >  Regards
> > Paul
> > WB8TSL
> >
> >
> > On Thu, May 23,  2013 at 2:32 AM, ed breya  wrote:
> >
> > >  You don't save these kinds of synthesizers for high frequency
> > >  coverage, but for their 10 to 11 digit frequency resolution. If you
> >  > anticipate needing that, then of course they should be kept and
> >  > fixed. The long-obsolete telecom standard connectors and ranges are
> > > pretty much useless - sacrifice that one first if you need parts  for
> the others.
> > >
> > > If you need to justify keeping them,  you can use them for practical
> > > everyday applications. For  example, each one can store a telephone
> > number -
> > > as long  as the power doesn't go out.
> > >
> > > Ed
> > >
> >  >
> > > __**_
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> >  https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts>
> >

Re: [time-nuts] Downsizing dilemma, HP 3335A

[Pete Lancashire]

I can understand the downsizing, someday it will happen to me. And where I
live there is pretty much zero
interest in anything electronic. The two local schools Portland State and
Reed both have EE but the students
done seem to have any interest in anything physical. they believe
everything they need or have interest in
can be simulated on a computer. I helped one of the PSU EE's one day, just
finished his 2nd year, had an
old Kenwood stereo distorted left output. He pretty much had no idea what
to do, and when 'we' found the
bad transistor, he didn't really know how to replace it.

BTW I know a Comp Sci graduate from PSU that can not write a program in any
language that outputs "Hello World"

-pete Sad

On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 5:08 AM, paul swed  wrote:

> Bill
> It is unfortunate when the time comes to downsize. Even worse as time goes
> by at least for me each piece of test equipment from HP seems to get
> heavier. Must be dust building up inside. So as Ed says if you need that
> fine grain resolution you need them.
> But you are also running into the age thing in the gear and that there are
> failures that creep in that are really a big problem to figure out.
> Especially if some form of programmable logics involved.
> Lastly sending them to the dumpster is the worst thing. But then the ole
> reality really sets in selling packing and shipping the stuff.
> I guess the good news is that today there is a lot of replacement gear that
> will do reasonably well thats cheap respectively consumes little power and
> can easily be controlled by usb so you don't have to actually stop
> experimenting.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
>
>
> On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 2:32 AM, ed breya  wrote:
>
> > You don't save these kinds of synthesizers for high frequency coverage,
> > but for their 10 to 11 digit frequency resolution. If you anticipate
> > needing that, then of course they should be kept and fixed. The
> > long-obsolete telecom standard connectors and ranges are pretty much
> > useless - sacrifice that one first if you need parts for the others.
> >
> > If you need to justify keeping them, you can use them for practical
> > everyday applications. For example, each one can store a telephone
> number -
> > as long as the power doesn't go out.
> >
> > Ed
> >
> >
> > __**_
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Re: [time-nuts] General Radio frequency standard question

[Pete Lancashire]

There is a GR group on Yahoo but its pretty quiet.


I joined when I started restoring one of the GR early synthesizers a 1161A,
the a 1115A
oscillator (the one where the dewer got destroyed in shipping).


I have one of the tuning fork units, it is in very bad condition but cost
me $1 at a
swap meet.

-pete



On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 12:00 PM, Tom Van Baak  wrote:

> Some of you know I spend as much time looking backward as looking forward:
> both ends of the precision time envelope are extremely interesting -- from
> chronometers and tuning forks -- to cesium clocks and masers.
>
> In particular I trying to restore and power up several old NL (Norrman
> Laboratories) and GR (General Radio) pre-quartz frequency standards/clocks
> from the 1930's. Can someone tell me if there's an active GenRad user
> group, web-forum, or mailing list on the web? In spite of a heavy shelf of
> General Radio Experimenter magazines, GR catalogs and GR manuals, I could
> use some help.
>
> Replies on- or off-list are ok.
>
> For those of you new to the 20th century history of time & frequency see
> mouth-watering specimens like:
> http://leapsecond.com/museum/gr1103a/
> http://leapsecond.com/museum/gr1190a/
> http://leapsecond.com/museum/gr676b-50kc/
> http://leapsecond.com/museum/gr815b/
> http://leapsecond.com/pages/old-genrad/
>
> Thanks,
> /tvb
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Trimble GPSDO board

[Pete Lancashire]

Not yet but just showed up Friday

https://goo.gl/photos/81fEtun41HVZThBk8

On Sat, Sep 12, 2015 at 8:37 PM, Arthur Dent 
wrote:

> "Did anyone have any luck in talking to this unit?"
>
> Reread my posts that describe what I did. Mine
> works great.
>
> -Arthur
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Re: [time-nuts] "Vanguard Ultra precision Golden Oscillator"

[Pete Lancashire]

>From the way the descriptions read, there must be a audiofool in there
somewhere

On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 5:16 AM, Tim Shoppa  wrote:

> Mainstream TCXO's moved entirely to surface-mount many years ago.
>
> These "Vanguard" DIP units have to be washed/replated RFE parts. It's a
> shame they are so completely relabeled because the original
> manufacturer/part number is nowhere to be found, and I'm sure this lost
> info would be interesting to a time-nut. They seem to be especially popular
> with audiophools (probably the gold).
>
> Tim N3QE
>
> On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 4:59 AM, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts <
> time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:
>
> > The "Vanguard ultra precision Golden TCXO", their description not
> mine:-),
> > has been listed on Ebay for a while now at various frequencies, and  the
> > 0.1 ppm spec caught my eye as a possible replacement for  the around 6
> or 7
> > ppm oscillator in a DDS function generator I've been  using.
> >
> > One typical current auction, for a 25MHz unit, is 111071283814.
> >
> > Has anybody tried any of these and/or come across any more data
> elsewhere?
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Nigel
> > GM8PZR
> > ___
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Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

[Pete Lancashire]

100% 2nd the thanks to all.
On Aug 9, 2015 12:07 PM, "Bob Camp"  wrote:

> Hi
>
> And my thanks to all the others who worked on this project as well !!!
>
> Bob
>
> > On Aug 9, 2015, at 11:26 AM, D W  wrote:
> >
> > A quick update for everyone. I have successfully gotten a REF-0 to run
> standalone. I am using an AVR, an inexpensive GPS module and very minimal
> circuitry. The 'NO GPS' light is off, and SatStat shows it is locked and
> disciplining to the 1PPS.
> >
> > The stability of this needs to be assessed for a day or two. But things
> are looking very good.
> >
> > I plan to write up a complete procedure with code and pictures. I will
> post that here when I am done.
> >
> > Thanks for all of your help Bob, and to the others that worked on the
> project.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >> On Aug 8, 2015, at 7:40 PM, Bob Camp  wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> While the newer Oncore’s are technically backwards compatible
> >> with the old units, in practice (as you have noted) that’s not a 100%
> >> sort of thing. If you work with a new(er) Oncore, you would pick
> different
> >> strings to use for this sort of thing. In order to have a “drop in”
> with an
> >> Oncore, you do indeed need a part made before (roughly) 2001.
> >>
> >> That kicks you back to  20 year old technology (the early Oncore silicon
> >> came out in the mid 90’s) . A *lot* has happened in Moore’s Law terms
> since then.
> >> A lot has also happened in “aggregate volume” (what ever you want to
> call
> >> volume doubling) terms. Both of those things directly impact GPS
> receivers.
> >> Top that off with SA going away after the early Oncore came out and you
> >> have a LOT of changes.
> >>
> >> Is that all bad? Of course not. It’s what makes me focus more on the
> REF-0, with
> >> a modern GPS than on the REF-1 with an old Oncore. You have the high
> stability /
> >> long loop stuff from the SA era. You have a high speed, high
> sensitivity GPS to
> >> go with it. In many ways, that’s the best of both worlds.
> >>
> >> 
> >>
> >> Hopefully somebody will pop up and take the gear off of your hands !!
> >>
> >> Bob
> >>
> >>> On Aug 8, 2015, at 1:59 PM, Bill Hawkins  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Bob Camp has done a fine job of explaining the recent Lucent hardware.
> >>>
> >>> I have two of the old pairs with Rb oscillators and poor early Oncore
> >>> receivers.
> >>> Then I got a new pair with crystals and better GPS. I got the idea to
> >>> use a new
> >>> crystal unit to pair with an old RB unit, so I did some research on the
> >>> messages
> >>> required to do that.
> >>>
> >>> The data was acquired with a Pico Scope set to display the bytes as
> >>> ASCII
> >>> characters. The displays can be saved as text files, which can be
> edited
> >>> with
> >>> explanations of the data. I have no skills with microcomputers, and
> >>> after many
> >>> years working with computers have no desire to acquire them.
> >>>
> >>> The messages decoded easily enough with the 1996 Oncore manual. The
> >>> problem
> >>> with mixing old and new units is that the old Oncore had six channels
> >>> while
> >>> the new one has eight. The messages don't match. The only difference is
> >>> two
> >>> more groups of satellite data.
> >>>
> >>> I have text files (MS Word 2003) with the contents of the messages.
> >>> Considering
> >>> the low level of interest in this subject, please write to
> b...@iaxs.net
> >>> for
> >>> further details. If you'd like to experiment with the hardware, please
> >>> make a
> >>> reasonable offer for any of it. The new units have been assembled with
> a
> >>> 28 volt
> >>> 3 amp supply into a mini-rack using aluminum angle. My time lab is
> being
> >>> downsized due to a move to senior living apartments. There's other
> >>> stuff.
> >>>
> >>> Bill Hawkins
> >>> Bloomington, MN 55438
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob
> >>> Camp
> >>> Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 6:33 AM
> >>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> >>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone
> >>>
> >>> Hi
> >>>
> >>> As far as I know, the Symmetricom / HP designs that were done in the SA
> >>> era
> >>> (this is one of them) did not use the sawtooth correction information.
> >>> The signal
> >>> spreading (at the time they were designed) was just to great to make it
> >>> worth
> >>> playing with. I have no authoritative source for that, but it does
> sound
> >>> reasonable.
> >>>
> >>> As with any “absolute” statement, there are sure to be exceptions
> >>> ..
> >>>
> >>> ==
> >>>
> >>> For the strings, you need the right status bits in the right locations.
> >>> The KS
> >>> does not care that it always sees the same sat’s at the same locations
> >>> directly
> >>> over it’s own north pole location. It just wants data in the field.
> >>>
> >>> It does care about the TRAIM status and probably a few other bits here
> >>> and there.
> >>> Non

Re: [time-nuts] wtd: WWVB info

[Pete Lancashire]

There is someone on ebay selling an analog 'movement'

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181283274562

DISCLAIMER: Not associated with the seller







On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 4:15 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:

> Hi
>
> The front end would be “dealers choice”. He who does the
> project gets to decide what gets used.
>
> If you look over some other designs, you can indeed get
> a device going with a 12 bit converter. The qualifier is that
> the signal to noise needs to be pretty good. With fades
> and switcher interference, you probably would notice its
> limitations.
>
> The “other end” of the design spectrum would be with a part
> designed as a high range font end chip. You can get to a lot
> of bits at low frequency. Even the prices aren’t all that crazy.
>
> Is there one and only one approach here? Not in any way. There
> are several thousand possible ways to do it. AGC or no AGC would
> be a pretty major decision. Next decision would be things like clocks.
> 15 MHz from a ($25) KS box that also puts out 10 MHz looks like a
> pretty good choice at the moment.
>
> Past that it’s decimators / filters and the usual DSP stuff (or any of
> a dozen alternatives). Given the high noise environment I’d lean towards
> a DSP approach.
>
> Most of the choices run into the easy / quick / cheap tradeoff triangle.
> I’m
> sure that the debating process can find a solution that should “cost 10
> cents”. I’m
> also sure that a basement lash up of available parts is quick, but hard to
> reproduce.
> I’m not terribly surprised at the lack of 10 cent solutions. I’m a bit
> surprised
> that there are no unique lash up designs. The debate process seems to
> have made this a pretty un-attractive thing to do.
>
> Bob
>
> > On Aug 4, 2015, at 11:36 PM, Hal Murray  wrote:
> >
> >
> > kb...@n1k.org said:
> >> So far there have not been any home brew design radios show up that will
> >> demodulate and lock to the new data format. There is plenty of info on
> the
> >> transmit format. The demodulation approach is not crazy hard. That said,
> >> there’s still a lot of work to get a receiver running.
> >
> > Has anybody looked into a software approach?  What sort of front end
> would
> > you want?
> >
> >
> > --
> > These are my opinions.  I hate spam.
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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Re: [time-nuts] HP10811 dual oven

[Pete Lancashire]

Interesting, mine does not have a HP tag, just a dot-matrix printed label
with one line. Hopefully by next spring I'll be set up to where I can do
some 'real' checking of the the oscillators I have.

Thank you for the enlightenment

-pete

On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Charles Steinmetz 
wrote:

> Pete wrote:
>
> When I got it, my luck won this time, one of the coax
>> cables is tagged 10 MHz and the other EFC.
>>
>
> That, by itself, does not differentiate between an HP 10811 and the
> Symmetricom OCXO -- they are identical 10MHz oscillators externally (the
> doubler in the Symmetricom is internal).  In my experience, the only
> conclusive external feature is the presence or absence of the Hewlett
> Packard ID on the serial number sticker.  10811s have a serial number
> sticker with Hewlett Packard ID (see photo below).  If the serial number
> sticker doesn't have the HP ID, it is the Symmetricom oscillator.
>
> As I noted, having the Symmetricom oscillator is not necessarily a bad
> thing -- mine is better than all of my 10811s, including the selected 10811
> that came out of an HP5390A frequency stability analyzer.  (This should NOT
> be read as a claim that the Symmetricom oscillators are better than 10811s
> -- my sample of the Symmetricoms is way too small to justify any conclusion
> in this regard.  But this particular Symmetricom happens to be a very fine
> "10811 class" OCXO.)
>
> Best regards,
>
> Charles
>
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Re: [time-nuts] HP10811 dual oven

[Pete Lancashire]

Charles

When I made the offer for the unit, I took the chance that it might be, I
saw that the s/n was 3505A02095, the same HP prefix
on my other dead dual oven 10811.

When I got it, my luck won this time, one of the coax cables is tagged 10
MHz and the other EFC.

A bit of background

The modules came from an HP system that was built for generating the master
T1/E1 clock in a central office. Some chassis
had 64 x 2.048 MHz outputs !

https://goo.gl/photos/t8oXfQ3AdQEFiji46

http://www.jackson-labs.com/assets/uploads/main/HP_AppNote.pdf

I chatted with the seller, The system he got took up 2 rack bays, It had
128 ouputs, and  it had a HP 5071A as the primary clock. Later version are
the ones used a GPS receiver.

http://atecorp.com/atecorp/media/pdfs/data-sheets/Agilent-58504A_Manual.pdf

I don't think many people know about the 55400A, they more then likely
didn't build many. I only read about it when this thing came up for sale.
My guess is there will not be a flood of them on the surplus market. And
sadly think of all the 5071A that more then likely ended up in a
E-Waste/Scrap yard.

-pete




















On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 2:24 PM, Charles Steinmetz 
wrote:

> Pete wrote:
>
> I have a HP / Symmetricom unit that has a dual oven 10811 that was part of
>> a telecom master clock distribution system that was only meant to run in a
>> controlled environment.
>>
>
> I'm not 100% positive, but I believe the OCXO in your photos is not an HP
> 10811, but rather the Symmetricom version, which uses a 5MHz crystal and a
> frequency doubler.  I bought a 58503 that the seller guaranteed had a
> 10811, but it turned out to have the Symmetricom oscillator instead.  When
> I pointed this out, the seller offered to refund me the price of a DO
> 10811, which I accepted.  Just for curiosity's sake, I ran the 58503 as it
> was, and after a time it settled into being one of my most stable OCXOs --
> better than all of my 10811s.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Charles
>
>
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] HP10811 dual oven

[Pete Lancashire]

Bob/TNuts ..

I have a HP / Symmetricom unit that has a dual oven 10811 that was part of
a telecom master clock distribution system that was only meant to run in a
controlled environment.

https://goo.gl/photos/xpfnxRegRyuykLSy5

Just another data point

-pete



On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 3:26 PM, Bob Camp  wrote:

> Hi
>
> The “external” heater on the Z3801 OCXO is only needed if you are
> regularly running below -20C in your environment. Other than
> the alarm signal, there is no harm in letting it simply shut off forever.
>
> Bob
>
> > On Aug 2, 2015, at 8:56 AM, tim...@timeok.it wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> > I have seen, but I do not remember where, someone have rebuilt the
> external oven controller to complete a stand alone OCXO removed from an
> HPZ3801A.
> > Can you hep me to find the document?
> >
> > Luciano
> > timeok
> >
> >
> > Message sent via Atmail Open - http://atmail.org/
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Re: [time-nuts] Symmetricom / Truetime XL-AK

[Pete Lancashire]

Hope there is something in this manual

http://www.awa.tohoku.ac.jp/~kazumi/Trigger/xl-ak-manual.pdf

On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 8:54 AM, jim s  wrote:

>
> I picked up one of these from the usual site, and it is supposed to be in
> working condition.  I wonder if someone may have a suitable antenna for it
> I might acquire, or a pointer to one that will work.
>
> It is the type with a 5v amplifier in it from what I was told, and is
> working.
>
> I have the manual, but it doesn't mention anything but "bullet" antenna as
> far as the one to be used with the unit or the optional downconverter.
> Multiple discussions are in the list archive about that requiring switch
> settings, but I have only found a user manual for the RS232 interface
> online for this unit.
>
> thanks
> Jim
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt CPR?

[Pete Lancashire]

Are they the same version ?

-pete

On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 12:11 PM, skipp Isaham via time-nuts <
time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:

> Trimble Thunderbolt CPR?
>
> An Ebay purchased Trimble Thunderbolt arrived DOA, it has no rs-232 output
> and I should also check the 10 MHz output soon. I'd like to have an initial
> look at a diagram to see if there are any "user serviceable parts" on
> board.
>
> Initial web searching suggests the schematic is not easily located.
>
> Would anyone have a source (even if I have to pay for it) of a diagram
> and/or
> any initial suggestions to trouble shoot an appearing to be dead
> Thunderbolt.
>
> I have a working Thunderbolt available for relative comparisons, sitting
> right next
> to the DOA unit.
>
> Again, thank you in advance for your replies.
>
> regards,
>
> skipp
>
> skipp025 at yahoo dot com
>
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Re: [time-nuts] how to find low noise transistors

[Pete Lancashire]

Hate to be an echo but be very careful. What you can get on EBay is things
like rejects, rebranded junk, used pulls. Reports have been published where
even parts that sell for 10 cents were profitable enough to rebrand parts.
A case of say 10th spoils of 5,000 each transistors can be had for less
then $5 and it cost about 2 cents to remark them.
 On Jul 19, 2015 4:08 PM, "Mike Feher"  wrote:

> But they can be found very inexpensively on eBay. 73 - Mike
>
> Mike B. Feher, EOZ Inc.
> 89 Arnold Blvd.
> Howell, NJ, 07731
> 732-886-5960 office
> 908-902-3831 cell
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of John
> Miles
> Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2015 11:00 PM
> To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] how to find low noise transistors
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of
> > KA2WEU--
> > - via time-nuts
> > Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2015 3:40 PM
> > To: time-nuts@febo.com
> > Cc: akpod...@synergymwave.com; alexander.r...@rohde-schwarz.com
> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] how to find low noise transistors
> >
> > BFG540
> >
> >
>
> That's what I mean -- both BFG540 and BFG591 have been discontinued by
> NXP.  Guess they don't sell enough of them these days.
>
> -- john, KE5FX
> Miles Design LLC
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] how to find low noise transistors (was: Firmware and antenna for Stanford Research FS700)

[Pete Lancashire]

I agree with Bob, find a vendor you can trust and make sure you buy from an
authorized distributor or if just need two or three parts try to get them
as samples.directly from the manufacturer. The reason for this is you may
get a fake or reject part and you will never know.

Trying to do the measurements yourself is pretty much out of the question
today.. Every improvement made it harder in that the equipment had to
itself be lower in noise

If interested

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=measuring+transistor+noise&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart





.

-pete



On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 5:29 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:

> Hi
>
> You have (and always have had) two basic choices:
>
> 1) Buy a very expensive part from somebody who has gone to the trouble
> of characterizing the noise performance and will guarantee at least some
> of what they show on the data sheet.
>
> 2) Buy a bunch of cheap transistors and test them. Lock in on a
> specific part and vendor. Keep monitoring what you get in case they
> “improve”
> their process and the magic goes away.
>
> How do you select candidates? That’s never been easy, there is less and
> less data on the sheets every day. Normally the first step is to look at
> a vendor that you have had luck with in the past. The next step is to ask
> them…
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> > On Jul 18, 2015, at 5:16 AM, Attila Kinali  wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 17 Jul 2015 23:25:10 -0400
> > Charles Steinmetz  wrote:
> >
> >> A pair of Zetex (Diodes, Inc.)
> >> ZTX849 or FZT849 actually have significantly lower voltage noise than
> >> either the LM394 or MAT12.
> >
> > I always wonder how you figure out whether a transistor is low noise
> > or not. What part of the datasheet hints at which transistors have low
> > noise and which have not? Even if it's just try and measure, how
> > do you find good candidates to measure?
> >
> >   Attila Kinali
> >
> > --
> > I must not become metastable.
> > Metastability is the mind-killer.
> > Metastability is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
> > I will face my metastability.
> > I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
> > And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
> > Where the metastability has gone there will be nothing. Only I will
> remain.
> >
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