Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A not responding to serial commands

[Bryan _]

BR


If you haven't already you may want to have a look at documentation available 
on the K04BB web site for the 5680A, may luck out and get the serial port 
working.


http://www.ko4bb.com/getsimple/index.php?id=manuals&dir=02_GPS_Timing/FEI/FE-5680A


-=Bryan=-



From: time-nuts  on behalf of Jonas Jalling 

Sent: November 19, 2017 11:30 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A not responding to serial commands

Hi Bryan,

I don't know, so probably not. I'll try to make a dump of the firmware, and
see if that gets me anywhare. But thank you for your input - now I know
that units exist with the serial port disabled.

BR Jonas

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 8:27 AM Bryan _  wrote:

> Did the serial communication ever work?. There is so many variations of
> the FE's that it's hard to know if it was even supported for that
> particular model or option. I have one and it has a serial port, but does
> not respond to any commands.
>
>
> -=Bryan=-
>
>
> 
> From: time-nuts  on behalf of Jonas Jalling <
> jo...@jalling.dk>
> Sent: November 19, 2017 12:20 AM
> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> Subject: [time-nuts] FE-5680A not responding to serial commands
>
> Hello all,
> I have an old FE-5680a I bought years ago, that surfaced from my storage
> boxes the other day. I thought I would experiment with disciplining it to
> my M12+t GPS. I have some problems adjusting the frequency though.
> If I put a scope on pins 5 and 7 of the DS80C323 processor, I can see the
> serial input (ie. 0x2D 0x04 0x00 0x29), but the processor never responds.
> Has anyone seen this problem before, and is there a way to fix it? Could
> the serial adjust be disabled? And if so, is there any way to enable it?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> BR Jonas
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A not responding to serial commands

[Jonas Jalling]

Hi Bryan,

I don't know, so probably not. I'll try to make a dump of the firmware, and
see if that gets me anywhare. But thank you for your input - now I know
that units exist with the serial port disabled.

BR Jonas

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 8:27 AM Bryan _  wrote:

> Did the serial communication ever work?. There is so many variations of
> the FE's that it's hard to know if it was even supported for that
> particular model or option. I have one and it has a serial port, but does
> not respond to any commands.
>
>
> -=Bryan=-
>
>
> 
> From: time-nuts  on behalf of Jonas Jalling <
> jo...@jalling.dk>
> Sent: November 19, 2017 12:20 AM
> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> Subject: [time-nuts] FE-5680A not responding to serial commands
>
> Hello all,
> I have an old FE-5680a I bought years ago, that surfaced from my storage
> boxes the other day. I thought I would experiment with disciplining it to
> my M12+t GPS. I have some problems adjusting the frequency though.
> If I put a scope on pins 5 and 7 of the DS80C323 processor, I can see the
> serial input (ie. 0x2D 0x04 0x00 0x29), but the processor never responds.
> Has anyone seen this problem before, and is there a way to fix it? Could
> the serial adjust be disabled? And if so, is there any way to enable it?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> BR Jonas
> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A not responding to serial commands

[Bryan _]

Did the serial communication ever work?. There is so many variations of the 
FE's that it's hard to know if it was even supported for that particular model 
or option. I have one and it has a serial port, but does not respond to any 
commands.


-=Bryan=-



From: time-nuts  on behalf of Jonas Jalling 

Sent: November 19, 2017 12:20 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] FE-5680A not responding to serial commands

Hello all,
I have an old FE-5680a I bought years ago, that surfaced from my storage
boxes the other day. I thought I would experiment with disciplining it to
my M12+t GPS. I have some problems adjusting the frequency though.
If I put a scope on pins 5 and 7 of the DS80C323 processor, I can see the
serial input (ie. 0x2D 0x04 0x00 0x29), but the processor never responds.
Has anyone seen this problem before, and is there a way to fix it? Could
the serial adjust be disabled? And if so, is there any way to enable it?

Thanks in advance,
BR Jonas
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[time-nuts] FE-5680A not responding to serial commands

[Jonas Jalling]

Hello all,
I have an old FE-5680a I bought years ago, that surfaced from my storage
boxes the other day. I thought I would experiment with disciplining it to
my M12+t GPS. I have some problems adjusting the frequency though.
If I put a scope on pins 5 and 7 of the DS80C323 processor, I can see the
serial input (ie. 0x2D 0x04 0x00 0x29), but the processor never responds.
Has anyone seen this problem before, and is there a way to fix it? Could
the serial adjust be disabled? And if so, is there any way to enable it?

Thanks in advance,
BR Jonas
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Year of Manufacture

[Mike Cook]

> Le 27 mai 2016 à 22:10, Bob Camp  a écrit :
> 
> Hi
> 
> Best guess is that the 0331 at the start is the date code. 31st week of 2003 
> would
> be it’s manufacture date.
> 
> Bob
> 

Bob’s guess fits with mine too. All between 0321 and 0345

>> On May 27, 2016, at 3:09 PM, Richard Webb  wrote:
>> 
>> New to this list, this week - having lusted after a 56' since seeing Gerry
>> Sweeney's series of videos on this unit and building up a distribution amp,
>> and then finally getting one.
>> 
>> I was interested in knowing how old my unit is, is there a way of decoding
>> the serial number to give a date code? - I have 0331-64239.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Richard.
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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who 
have not got it. »
George Bernard Shaw

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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Year of Manufacture

[Bob Camp]

Hi

Best guess is that the 0331 at the start is the date code. 31st week of 2003 
would
be it’s manufacture date.

Bob

> On May 27, 2016, at 3:09 PM, Richard Webb  wrote:
> 
> New to this list, this week - having lusted after a 56' since seeing Gerry
> Sweeney's series of videos on this unit and building up a distribution amp,
> and then finally getting one.
> 
> I was interested in knowing how old my unit is, is there a way of decoding
> the serial number to give a date code? - I have 0331-64239.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Richard.
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[time-nuts] FE-5680A Year of Manufacture

[Richard Webb]

New to this list, this week - having lusted after a 56' since seeing Gerry
Sweeney's series of videos on this unit and building up a distribution amp,
and then finally getting one.

I was interested in knowing how old my unit is, is there a way of decoding
the serial number to give a date code? - I have 0331-64239.

Thanks,

Richard.
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A GPSDO controller also works with FE-5650A

[Nick Sayer via time-nuts]

> On May 23, 2016, at 11:34 AM, Skip Withrow  wrote:
> 
> Hello Time-Nuts,
> 
> Nick Sayer's GPSDO controller will also work with the FEI FE-5650A rubidium
> oscillators as well.  A small modification is needed to the board, but is
> rather trivial.
> 
> First, the 5680 outputs 10MHz on pin-7 of the DB-9, the 5650 has a separate
> SMA connector.  So, pin-7 needs to be lifted from the GPSDO board (the 5650
> has the VCXO monitor on that pin).  And a short coaxial pigtail needs to be
> run to ground and the GPSDO 10MHz input (I soldered the center conductor to
> the chip cap on the top of the board.  I also just use an SMA coaxial Tee
> to run the 10MHz to my monitoring equipment.
> 
> Second, the 5680 has an RS-232 interface and the 5650 is TTL.  So, the 5650
> can be modified for RS-232 (the pads are in the unit, the RS232 chip and 5
> caps must be added), or the RS-232 converter can be taken off Nick's board
> and two small jumpers added.  I have done both.
> 
> I have asked Nick to add changes on the next pass of the board to
> accommodate these changes more easily.

Big, huge thanks to Skip for not only recovering the 5680 that my early 
firmware bricked (that has not recurred, by the way, so I have some hope it’s 
all better now), but for being an independent tester of the prototype.

The revision of the board that’s on the way back to me has an error and the 
RS-232/TTL jumpers are, unfortunately, worthless. To do the TTL conversion for 
that version you have to pull the chip off, but as long as the first 3 
customers have 5680s, it won’t matter to them. Once I verify there are no other 
errors (I expect there are none), I’ll order a larger run with that error 
corrected.

The third jumper, however, does work properly and allows you to reroute the RF 
input from pin 7 to an on-board U.FL connector footprint. You can either add 
the U.FL SMT jack or just solder on to the center pad, and then swap around the 
two-way jumper. This is useful for other FEI oscillators like Skip’s modified 
5650s, or 5680s that have SMA output jacks.

This version also has an improved power supply compared to what Skip’s been 
using. I’ve been seeing improved results. Surprisingly (to me), it’s been 
improvements on the 5v rail rather than the 15v rail that have been the most 
beneficial.


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[time-nuts] FE-5680A GPSDO controller also works with FE-5650A

[Skip Withrow]

Hello Time-Nuts,

Nick Sayer's GPSDO controller will also work with the FEI FE-5650A rubidium
oscillators as well.  A small modification is needed to the board, but is
rather trivial.

First, the 5680 outputs 10MHz on pin-7 of the DB-9, the 5650 has a separate
SMA connector.  So, pin-7 needs to be lifted from the GPSDO board (the 5650
has the VCXO monitor on that pin).  And a short coaxial pigtail needs to be
run to ground and the GPSDO 10MHz input (I soldered the center conductor to
the chip cap on the top of the board.  I also just use an SMA coaxial Tee
to run the 10MHz to my monitoring equipment.

Second, the 5680 has an RS-232 interface and the 5650 is TTL.  So, the 5650
can be modified for RS-232 (the pads are in the unit, the RS232 chip and 5
caps must be added), or the RS-232 converter can be taken off Nick's board
and two small jumpers added.  I have done both.

I have asked Nick to add changes on the next pass of the board to
accommodate these changes more easily.

These mods assume a 5650 that RDR-Electronics has modified to have the same
control word resolution as the 5680.

I hope to publish some Lady Heather plots soon of the GPSDO performance.
One nice feature is that Nick's code is open source and if people wanted to
add features (such as the EEPROM write) it should be easy to do.

I know I have had fun playing with the controller the last couple of seeks.

Regards,
Skip Withrow


Virus-free.
www.avast.com

<#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A GPS discipline board on sale now

[Nick Sayer via time-nuts]

Absolutely. There’s a standard AVR ISP header on the board and the firmware is 
open source - on github - so even if I didn’t do it, anyone else could.

> On May 22, 2016, at 9:04 AM, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts  
> wrote:
> 
> Nick,
> 
> This looks very interesting but just wondering,  will there be an  option 
> for end users to reprogram the board themselves just in  case there does turn 
> out to be any bugs in the software, and if so would  you be making updates 
> available?
> 
> Regards
> 
> Nigel
> GM8PZR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A GPS discipline board on sale now

[GandalfG8--- via time-nuts]

Nick,
 
This looks very interesting but just wondering,  will there be an  option 
for end users to reprogram the board themselves just in  case there does turn 
out to be any bugs in the software, and if so would  you be making updates 
available?
 
Regards
 
Nigel
GM8PZR
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A GPS discipline board on sale now

[Attila Kinali]

On Fri, 20 May 2016 07:03:10 -0700
Nick Sayer via time-nuts  wrote:

> > The discharge resistor of the integrator (R13) is with 10M way too high.
> > The PCB resistance is usually in the same order of magnitude. Ie with
> > a resistance that high, the actual resistance highly depends on how
> > clean the board is (finger prints, dust) and the amount of humidity
> > it absorbed (both the epoxy and the solder resist are quite hygroscopic).
> > A resistance of 1M usally is the maximum recommended value. For systems
> > that should run reliably for a long time, i would even try to keep it lower.
> > Of course, you have to increase the capacitor accordingly, which also makes
> > the capacitor less dependent on parasitics. 
> 
> The discharge time constant is not critical to the design.
> It needs to be long enough to not have a significant impact
> own the cap over the course of the first few microseconds,
> but it needs to clear out the cap before the next second.
> A larger cap requires a smaller resistor, which increases 
> the current from the PLL output pin. I joked at the time that
> I could just clip a fingernail and glue that onto the pads
> instead of using an 0805, but the standard deviation would be quite high.
>

Ah.. ok... so all you needed was something that defined the minimum
discharge resistance?

> As with my TCXO/OCXO based designs, there are a lot of choices that
> just wind up being “good enough,” given that the target ADEV is easily
> an order of magnitude higher (10^-11 ish for the OH300) than many Time
> Nuts(tm) aspire to.

Jupp... I just worte a long text block detailing the temperature
dependence of your phase measurement circuit, only to realize that
its error is likely to be burried in the temperature dependence and
noise of the rest of the circuit. Hence i deleted it again...

(In case you wonder: the phase measurement has probably a temp dependence
of about 0.1%/°C, in both variants. Plus the dependence of the ADC)

 
Attila Kinali

-- 
Reading can seriously damage your ignorance.
-- unknown
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A GPS discipline board on sale now

[Nick Sayer via time-nuts]

All the more reason to just observe the log and manually select the value to 
burn in, IMHO. If you happen to see that the discipline is alternating between 
adjacent values, then you can "de-dither" by adding back the two lost 
resolution bits and selecting the correct low-bits by interpolation. 



Sent from my iPhone

> On May 21, 2016, at 3:00 PM, Chris Albertson  
> wrote:
> 
> You SHOULD never have to write very frequently to the EEPROM.  As long at the 
> 5680 is connected to the GPS you don't have to write to the EEPROM at all.  
> Only time you'd need to write is just before it is disconnected.  Will you do 
> that even three times a week.
> 
> The unit that discipline the 5680 would have a "shutdown" button on it, when 
> pressed it would turn itself off but just before would write the best EFC 
> value to the EEPROM.   That would likely be the average EFC over the last 
> several days.  If a 5680 is used in a disconnected hold over mode you's like 
> it to be programmed with an EFC value that will work best over a long hold 
> over.  This might not be the same EFC value that was sent to the 5680.
> 
>> On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 8:37 AM, Nick Sayer via time-nuts 
>>  wrote:
>> You're right. The EEPROM of concern is the one in the 5680. Since they're 
>> used, you have no idea how many writes they've already endured (likely a low 
>> number), and they're quite old.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> > On May 20, 2016, at 3:20 PM, paul swed  wrote:
>> >
>> > Mark
>> > By todays standards yes. But they were not that great 10 years ago.
>> > So I may be crossing wires. I am speaking off the eeprom in the 5680 and I
>> > think you are speaking to the one in the AVR. That would be of the modern
>> > type.
>> > Regards
>> > Paul
>> > WB8TSL
>> >
>> >> On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 5:31 PM, Mark Sims  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I think the EEPROM in AVR chips is rated at 100,000 writes.   Several
>> >> people have tested them and most found they would survive at least 5
>> >> million writes... YMMV, of course.
>> >> 
>> >> One write every 24 hours is still under
>> >> 10K writes in a reasonable lifespan for a GPSDO. It’s a rare eeprom that
>> >> is rated that low.
>> >> ___
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A GPS discipline board on sale now

[Chris Albertson]

You SHOULD never have to write very frequently to the EEPROM.  As long at
the 5680 is connected to the GPS you don't have to write to the EEPROM at
all.  Only time you'd need to write is just before it is disconnected.
Will you do that even three times a week.

The unit that discipline the 5680 would have a "shutdown" button on it,
when pressed it would turn itself off but just before would write the best
EFC value to the EEPROM.   That would likely be the average EFC over the
last several days.  If a 5680 is used in a disconnected hold over mode
you's like it to be programmed with an EFC value that will work best over a
long hold over.  This might not be the same EFC value that was sent to the
5680.

On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 8:37 AM, Nick Sayer via time-nuts <
time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:

> You're right. The EEPROM of concern is the one in the 5680. Since they're
> used, you have no idea how many writes they've already endured (likely a
> low number), and they're quite old.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On May 20, 2016, at 3:20 PM, paul swed  wrote:
> >
> > Mark
> > By todays standards yes. But they were not that great 10 years ago.
> > So I may be crossing wires. I am speaking off the eeprom in the 5680 and
> I
> > think you are speaking to the one in the AVR. That would be of the modern
> > type.
> > Regards
> > Paul
> > WB8TSL
> >
> >> On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 5:31 PM, Mark Sims  wrote:
> >>
> >> I think the EEPROM in AVR chips is rated at 100,000 writes.   Several
> >> people have tested them and most found they would survive at least 5
> >> million writes... YMMV, of course.
> >> 
> >> One write every 24 hours is still under
> >> 10K writes in a reasonable lifespan for a GPSDO. It’s a rare eeprom that
> >> is rated that low.
> >> ___
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-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A GPS discipline board on sale now

[Nick Sayer via time-nuts]

You're right. The EEPROM of concern is the one in the 5680. Since they're used, 
you have no idea how many writes they've already endured (likely a low number), 
and they're quite old.  

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 20, 2016, at 3:20 PM, paul swed  wrote:
> 
> Mark
> By todays standards yes. But they were not that great 10 years ago.
> So I may be crossing wires. I am speaking off the eeprom in the 5680 and I
> think you are speaking to the one in the AVR. That would be of the modern
> type.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
> 
>> On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 5:31 PM, Mark Sims  wrote:
>> 
>> I think the EEPROM in AVR chips is rated at 100,000 writes.   Several
>> people have tested them and most found they would survive at least 5
>> million writes... YMMV, of course.
>> 
>> One write every 24 hours is still under
>> 10K writes in a reasonable lifespan for a GPSDO. It’s a rare eeprom that
>> is rated that low.
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A GPS discipline board on sale now

[paul swed]

Mark
By todays standards yes. But they were not that great 10 years ago.
So I may be crossing wires. I am speaking off the eeprom in the 5680 and I
think you are speaking to the one in the AVR. That would be of the modern
type.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 5:31 PM, Mark Sims  wrote:

> I think the EEPROM in AVR chips is rated at 100,000 writes.   Several
> people have tested them and most found they would survive at least 5
> million writes... YMMV, of course.
> 
> One write every 24 hours is still under
> 10K writes in a reasonable lifespan for a GPSDO. It’s a rare eeprom that
> is rated that low.
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[time-nuts] FE-5680A GPS discipline board on sale now

[Mark Sims]

I think the EEPROM in AVR chips is rated at 100,000 writes.   Several people 
have tested them and most found they would survive at least 5 million writes... 
YMMV, of course.

One write every 24 hours is still under
10K writes in a reasonable lifespan for a GPSDO. It’s a rare eeprom that is 
rated that low.   
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A GPS discipline board on sale now

[paul swed]

Hello to the group.
I would like to add a comment to this thread. I agree with Bobs comment on
the eeprom writes. For modern units its 100K plus but does depend on the
memory cell technology.
However aren't the 5680s about 10 years old? If thats true then the write
life cycle was much lower back then and I would be careful.

So far on the thread we are discussing manual writes that most likely are
occasional.

But lets say you do not realize there is a real memory lifecycle and you
choose to update every hour. You will very quickly eat through the write
life of the older technology.

Just be aware of what you are writing to.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 2:24 PM, Bob Camp  wrote:

> Hi
>
> If you go through the math on your eeprom, there is a point at which
> writes “don’t matter”. It
> depends a bit on the part you have and your target life. One write every
> 24 hours is still under
> 10K writes in a reasonable lifespan for a GPSDO. It’s a rare eeprom that
> is rated that low.
>
> Bob
>
> > On May 20, 2016, at 12:27 PM, Chris Albertson 
> wrote:
> >
> > Rather then a manual button, you might always burn in the EFC value
> > after finding it stable for some number of hours.  Then after that
> > only burn it again under some strict conditions like being stable for
> > twice as many hours and the value in the EEPROM is different from what
> > it needs to be, eventually getting to updates every week or two if
> > needed.  Actually that is my use of the Rb oscillator a portable
> > reference
> >
> >> Another use case for this GPS discipline module is to use it to figure
> out the correct tuning value for a particular oscillator, then unplug it
> and use the DOS software to commit that value to EEPROM (multiplying the
> logged value by 4 to make up for the resolution reduction). Having done
> that, you now have a portable calibrated reference. From what I can tell
> the holdover performance of the 5680A is particularly good - exactly why
> they made them, in fact. If I had just one more input on the controller, I
> might have added a “commit” button that would send the EEPROM burn command
> on demand with the current EFC value (the controller is almost out of flash
> space, though, so that’s an issue).
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
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> >> and follow the instructions there.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Chris Albertson
> > Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A GPS discipline board on sale now

[Bob Camp]

Hi

If you go through the math on your eeprom, there is a point at which writes 
“don’t matter”. It 
depends a bit on the part you have and your target life. One write every 24 
hours is still under
10K writes in a reasonable lifespan for a GPSDO. It’s a rare eeprom that is 
rated that low. 

Bob

> On May 20, 2016, at 12:27 PM, Chris Albertson  
> wrote:
> 
> Rather then a manual button, you might always burn in the EFC value
> after finding it stable for some number of hours.  Then after that
> only burn it again under some strict conditions like being stable for
> twice as many hours and the value in the EEPROM is different from what
> it needs to be, eventually getting to updates every week or two if
> needed.  Actually that is my use of the Rb oscillator a portable
> reference
> 
>> Another use case for this GPS discipline module is to use it to figure out 
>> the correct tuning value for a particular oscillator, then unplug it and use 
>> the DOS software to commit that value to EEPROM (multiplying the logged 
>> value by 4 to make up for the resolution reduction). Having done that, you 
>> now have a portable calibrated reference. From what I can tell the holdover 
>> performance of the 5680A is particularly good - exactly why they made them, 
>> in fact. If I had just one more input on the controller, I might have added 
>> a “commit” button that would send the EEPROM burn command on demand with the 
>> current EFC value (the controller is almost out of flash space, though, so 
>> that’s an issue).
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A GPS discipline board on sale now

[Chris Albertson]

Rather then a manual button, you might always burn in the EFC value
after finding it stable for some number of hours.  Then after that
only burn it again under some strict conditions like being stable for
twice as many hours and the value in the EEPROM is different from what
it needs to be, eventually getting to updates every week or two if
needed.  Actually that is my use of the Rb oscillator a portable
reference

> Another use case for this GPS discipline module is to use it to figure out 
> the correct tuning value for a particular oscillator, then unplug it and use 
> the DOS software to commit that value to EEPROM (multiplying the logged value 
> by 4 to make up for the resolution reduction). Having done that, you now have 
> a portable calibrated reference. From what I can tell the holdover 
> performance of the 5680A is particularly good - exactly why they made them, 
> in fact. If I had just one more input on the controller, I might have added a 
> “commit” button that would send the EEPROM burn command on demand with the 
> current EFC value (the controller is almost out of flash space, though, so 
> that’s an issue).
>
>
> ___
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> and follow the instructions there.



-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A GPS discipline board on sale now

[Nick Sayer via time-nuts]

> On May 20, 2016, at 2:29 AM, Attila Kinali  wrote:
> 
> Hoi Nick!
> 
> On Thu, 19 May 2016 10:08:10 -0700
> Nick Sayer via time-nuts  wrote:
> 
> 
>> This is a mash-up of my breakout board and GPSDO. You give it 30+W 18-24
>> VDC in (hack up a surplus laptop power supply) and it supplies up to 2A @ 15
>> VDC and 500 mA @ 5 VDC. In my testing I see around 25 mV p-p of ripple on the
>> 15V rail. The 5V rail is a bit noisier at around 35 mV. Functionally, the
>> discipline system is the same as the latest OH300 units - it has the phase
>> discriminator that Jim Harman recommended, but now there’s a JFET that acts
>> to make the phase ramp more linear (useful if you want to gather stats).
> 
> Nice! Thanks for sharing!
> 
> Three comments:
> 
> The discharge resistor of the integrator (R13) is with 10M way too high.
> The PCB resistance is usually in the same order of magnitude. Ie with
> a resistance that high, the actual resistance highly depends on how
> clean the board is (finger prints, dust) and the amount of humidity
> it absorbed (both the epoxy and the solder resist are quite hygroscopic).
> A resistance of 1M usally is the maximum recommended value. For systems
> that should run reliably for a long time, i would even try to keep it lower.
> Of course, you have to increase the capacitor accordingly, which also makes
> the capacitor less dependent on parasitics. 

The discharge time constant is not critical to the design. It needs to be long 
enough to not have a significant impact own the cap over the course of the 
first few microseconds, but it needs to clear out the cap before the next 
second. A larger cap requires a smaller resistor, which increases the current 
from the PLL output pin. I joked at the time that I could just clip a 
fingernail and glue that onto the pads instead of using an 0805, but the 
standard deviation would be quite high.

> 
> The FET Q2 makes the phase detector more linear, but also makes it more
> dependent on temperature. Also the V_GSth has a variation of a factor of 3
> between different transistors. But I have to admit that I don't know a
> good solution for this. 

The linearity is optional. It’s only useful if you want to try and make sense 
of the phase numbers logged. As alternative, you could attempt to curve-fit 
them instead. It’s a happy coincidence that an 0805 footprint is very similar 
to the D-S pads of the transistor, so the schematic notes that you can use a 0Ω 
across D-S if you like. In that case, the code needs to change to select the 
4.096V ADC reference instead of the 2.2V one.

For the actual PLL, I believe the impact of either choice is merely to lock 
onto a different phase center point. And if that center point drifts with 
temperature, then I think it’ll be dwarfed by the rest of the temperature 
impact on the system.

As with my TCXO/OCXO based designs, there are a lot of choices that just wind 
up being “good enough,” given that the target ADEV is easily an order of 
magnitude higher (10^-11 ish for the OH300) than many Time Nuts(tm) aspire to.


> 
> The output of the FE-5680 is exteremely noisy. A small VCXO locked
> to the 10MHz output using a simple PLL (an XOR gate with RC filter
> should be enough) is recommended to get at least rid of the spurs
> above 100Hz-1kHz

I have a design in mind for an OH300 based clean-up oscillator as a separate 
module. It would use an OH300 VCOCXO and a 4046 to attempt to lock against an 
input reference. It would be useful for those who want to use the 5680 in 
microwave applications (whether or not GPS disciplined) where the low-tau 
stability is an issue. For myself - at least at the moment - my use case is a 
reference for my 53220A, so I’m not sure stability below 1s is much of a 
factor. I do admit, however, to being curious as to whether I can do 
significantly better than my OH300 GPSDO with such a configuration. There’s not 
a lot of difference between the two when I measure them (that said, I am 
measuring them both against a Thunderbolt and have not yet attempted the 
three-cornered hat to tease out how much impact it’s having on the results). A 
comparison ADEV graph is on the Tindie store page.

Another use case for this GPS discipline module is to use it to figure out the 
correct tuning value for a particular oscillator, then unplug it and use the 
DOS software to commit that value to EEPROM (multiplying the logged value by 4 
to make up for the resolution reduction). Having done that, you now have a 
portable calibrated reference. From what I can tell the holdover performance of 
the 5680A is particularly good - exactly why they made them, in fact. If I had 
just one more input on the controller, I might have added a “commit” button 
that would send the EEPROM burn command on demand with the current EFC value 
(the controller is almost out of flash space, though, so that’s an issue).


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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A GPS discipline board on sale now

[Attila Kinali]

Hoi Nick!

On Thu, 19 May 2016 10:08:10 -0700
Nick Sayer via time-nuts  wrote:


> This is a mash-up of my breakout board and GPSDO. You give it 30+W 18-24
> VDC in (hack up a surplus laptop power supply) and it supplies up to 2A @ 15
> VDC and 500 mA @ 5 VDC. In my testing I see around 25 mV p-p of ripple on the
> 15V rail. The 5V rail is a bit noisier at around 35 mV. Functionally, the
> discipline system is the same as the latest OH300 units - it has the phase
> discriminator that Jim Harman recommended, but now there’s a JFET that acts
> to make the phase ramp more linear (useful if you want to gather stats).

Nice! Thanks for sharing!

Three comments:

The discharge resistor of the integrator (R13) is with 10M way too high.
The PCB resistance is usually in the same order of magnitude. Ie with
a resistance that high, the actual resistance highly depends on how
clean the board is (finger prints, dust) and the amount of humidity
it absorbed (both the epoxy and the solder resist are quite hygroscopic).
A resistance of 1M usally is the maximum recommended value. For systems
that should run reliably for a long time, i would even try to keep it lower.
Of course, you have to increase the capacitor accordingly, which also makes
the capacitor less dependent on parasitics. 

The FET Q2 makes the phase detector more linear, but also makes it more
dependent on temperature. Also the V_GSth has a variation of a factor of 3
between different transistors. But I have to admit that I don't know a
good solution for this. 

The output of the FE-5680 is exteremely noisy. A small VCXO locked
to the 10MHz output using a simple PLL (an XOR gate with RC filter
should be enough) is recommended to get at least rid of the spurs
above 100Hz-1kHz


Attila Kinali

-- 
It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All 
the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no 
use without that foundation.
 -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
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[time-nuts] FE-5680A GPS discipline board on sale now

[Nick Sayer via time-nuts]

This is a mash-up of my breakout board and GPSDO. You give it 30+W 18-24 VDC in 
(hack up a surplus laptop power supply) and it supplies up to 2A @ 15 VDC and 
500 mA @ 5 VDC. In my testing I see around 25 mV p-p of ripple on the 15V rail. 
The 5V rail is a bit noisier at around 35 mV. Functionally, the discipline 
system is the same as the latest OH300 units - it has the phase discriminator 
that Jim Harman recommended, but now there’s a JFET that acts to make the phase 
ramp more linear (useful if you want to gather stats). The firmware has 4 modes 
of operation - an initial FLL, followed by a PLL with TC 100s, 1/2 hr and 2 
hours. Once it’s in the 2 hour mode, the EFC value often goes for hours without 
changing (I’m throwing away the bottom two bits of EFC resolution).

It has a mini-DIN-4 diagnostic jack that has a buffered GPS PPS output and two 
TTL serial streams (log and NMEA), an SMA antenna jack (the module has an 
internal antenna, but an external one is recommended), a 2.1mm barrel connector 
for power and two JST jacks with independently buffered 5V square wave outputs. 
The board is the same width as the 5680A. It comes with rubber feet so it can 
rest on the table next to the oscillator, or you can remove them and mount it 
on 4 grounded screw holes in the corners. The three LEDs have light pipes to 
make them stick out from the edge of the board.

If you’ve got a 5680A and your biggest complaint about it is that it’s not 
actually *accurate* by itself, then this is a good solution.

http://www.tindie.com/products/nsayer/fe-5680a-gps-discipline-module/
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A tuning step and pre-lock stability?

[Azelio Boriani]

OK, 256*50*17E-15 is a more comfortable 2.176E-10, easier to measure.
Anyway, I have found out just today that there are 17digits/second
counters:


On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 4:18 PM, Nick Sayer via time-nuts
 wrote:
> I'm not measuring the actual step. I'm moving 256 steps at a time and 
> observing that THAT is 50ish times larger than expected. I'm extrapolating 
> that single-stepping would move 50 times more than expected, but I have no 
> way of testing that.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On May 7, 2016, at 4:26 AM, Azelio Boriani  wrote:
>>
>> How can anyone of us tell wheater a tuning step is or not at the level
>> of 10 at -15? Maybe only TVB can...
>> Are you sure that the 50 times greater than is not related to your
>> measure instead of the real capability of the 5680A?
>>
>> On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 6:51 AM, Nick Sayer via time-nuts
>>  wrote:
>>> I got a second 5680 in the mail the other day and so far my firmware isn’t 
>>> bricking it, so.. yay.
>>>
>>> A couple of odd things have turned up, though.
>>>
>>> 1. So far as I can experimentally tell, the tuning step on this unit is 50 
>>> times larger than the 17E-15 quoted by FEI. Either the tuning curve is not 
>>> linear or the tuning range is not what they claim (or both). I’d like to 
>>> get a feel for whether the standard deviation of the mid-range (near zero) 
>>> tuning step is. Is it closer to what I’m observing or FEI’s spec? The 
>>> answer will instruct me on how to pick the PLL gain constant for the 
>>> firmware.
>>>
>>> 2. Directly clocking an AVR from the 5680A is unreliable prior to lock. I 
>>> haven’t exhaustively examined the startup behavior of the 5680, but 
>>> power-up reset of my GPS board used to not happen a lot of the time, and 
>>> manual reset was required. The AVR datasheet says that as long as the clock 
>>> frequency is kept within 2% from cycle to cycle that that’s ok, but either 
>>> this 5680A isn’t doing that or the AVR datasheet is wrong. Fortunately, 
>>> there’s a software workaround: fuse the controller for the internal 8 MHz 
>>> oscillator and switch over (I was surprised to learn that changing system 
>>> clock sources on the fly is an option) to the 5680 only once a physics lock 
>>> is indicated by the lock pin. That seems to be acceptably reliable. My 
>>> purpose in mentioning it is to see if anyone has examined the pre-lock 
>>> behavior of the 5680 (I understand it’s not a particularly interesting 
>>> question) to see exactly how jumpy it really is before it locks.
>>>
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A tuning step and pre-lock stability?

[Bob Camp]

Hi

The way it’s normally found is in a control loop. The fact that the loop is 
“dead” for 
50 or 500 steps and then suddenly does something is what you quickly notice. If 
you are
manually tuning a loop, it does show up.

Bob

> On May 7, 2016, at 7:26 AM, Azelio Boriani  wrote:
> 
> How can anyone of us tell wheater a tuning step is or not at the level
> of 10 at -15? Maybe only TVB can...
> Are you sure that the 50 times greater than is not related to your
> measure instead of the real capability of the 5680A?
> 
> On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 6:51 AM, Nick Sayer via time-nuts
>  wrote:
>> I got a second 5680 in the mail the other day and so far my firmware isn’t 
>> bricking it, so.. yay.
>> 
>> A couple of odd things have turned up, though.
>> 
>> 1. So far as I can experimentally tell, the tuning step on this unit is 50 
>> times larger than the 17E-15 quoted by FEI. Either the tuning curve is not 
>> linear or the tuning range is not what they claim (or both). I’d like to get 
>> a feel for whether the standard deviation of the mid-range (near zero) 
>> tuning step is. Is it closer to what I’m observing or FEI’s spec? The answer 
>> will instruct me on how to pick the PLL gain constant for the firmware.
>> 
>> 2. Directly clocking an AVR from the 5680A is unreliable prior to lock. I 
>> haven’t exhaustively examined the startup behavior of the 5680, but power-up 
>> reset of my GPS board used to not happen a lot of the time, and manual reset 
>> was required. The AVR datasheet says that as long as the clock frequency is 
>> kept within 2% from cycle to cycle that that’s ok, but either this 5680A 
>> isn’t doing that or the AVR datasheet is wrong. Fortunately, there’s a 
>> software workaround: fuse the controller for the internal 8 MHz oscillator 
>> and switch over (I was surprised to learn that changing system clock sources 
>> on the fly is an option) to the 5680 only once a physics lock is indicated 
>> by the lock pin. That seems to be acceptably reliable. My purpose in 
>> mentioning it is to see if anyone has examined the pre-lock behavior of the 
>> 5680 (I understand it’s not a particularly interesting question) to see 
>> exactly how jumpy it really is before it locks.
>> 
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A tuning step and pre-lock stability?

[Nick Sayer via time-nuts]

I'm not measuring the actual step. I'm moving 256 steps at a time and observing 
that THAT is 50ish times larger than expected. I'm extrapolating that 
single-stepping would move 50 times more than expected, but I have no way of 
testing that. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 7, 2016, at 4:26 AM, Azelio Boriani  wrote:
> 
> How can anyone of us tell wheater a tuning step is or not at the level
> of 10 at -15? Maybe only TVB can...
> Are you sure that the 50 times greater than is not related to your
> measure instead of the real capability of the 5680A?
> 
> On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 6:51 AM, Nick Sayer via time-nuts
>  wrote:
>> I got a second 5680 in the mail the other day and so far my firmware isn’t 
>> bricking it, so.. yay.
>> 
>> A couple of odd things have turned up, though.
>> 
>> 1. So far as I can experimentally tell, the tuning step on this unit is 50 
>> times larger than the 17E-15 quoted by FEI. Either the tuning curve is not 
>> linear or the tuning range is not what they claim (or both). I’d like to get 
>> a feel for whether the standard deviation of the mid-range (near zero) 
>> tuning step is. Is it closer to what I’m observing or FEI’s spec? The answer 
>> will instruct me on how to pick the PLL gain constant for the firmware.
>> 
>> 2. Directly clocking an AVR from the 5680A is unreliable prior to lock. I 
>> haven’t exhaustively examined the startup behavior of the 5680, but power-up 
>> reset of my GPS board used to not happen a lot of the time, and manual reset 
>> was required. The AVR datasheet says that as long as the clock frequency is 
>> kept within 2% from cycle to cycle that that’s ok, but either this 5680A 
>> isn’t doing that or the AVR datasheet is wrong. Fortunately, there’s a 
>> software workaround: fuse the controller for the internal 8 MHz oscillator 
>> and switch over (I was surprised to learn that changing system clock sources 
>> on the fly is an option) to the 5680 only once a physics lock is indicated 
>> by the lock pin. That seems to be acceptably reliable. My purpose in 
>> mentioning it is to see if anyone has examined the pre-lock behavior of the 
>> 5680 (I understand it’s not a particularly interesting question) to see 
>> exactly how jumpy it really is before it locks.
>> 
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A tuning step and pre-lock stability?

[Azelio Boriani]

How can anyone of us tell wheater a tuning step is or not at the level
of 10 at -15? Maybe only TVB can...
Are you sure that the 50 times greater than is not related to your
measure instead of the real capability of the 5680A?

On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 6:51 AM, Nick Sayer via time-nuts
 wrote:
> I got a second 5680 in the mail the other day and so far my firmware isn’t 
> bricking it, so.. yay.
>
> A couple of odd things have turned up, though.
>
> 1. So far as I can experimentally tell, the tuning step on this unit is 50 
> times larger than the 17E-15 quoted by FEI. Either the tuning curve is not 
> linear or the tuning range is not what they claim (or both). I’d like to get 
> a feel for whether the standard deviation of the mid-range (near zero) tuning 
> step is. Is it closer to what I’m observing or FEI’s spec? The answer will 
> instruct me on how to pick the PLL gain constant for the firmware.
>
> 2. Directly clocking an AVR from the 5680A is unreliable prior to lock. I 
> haven’t exhaustively examined the startup behavior of the 5680, but power-up 
> reset of my GPS board used to not happen a lot of the time, and manual reset 
> was required. The AVR datasheet says that as long as the clock frequency is 
> kept within 2% from cycle to cycle that that’s ok, but either this 5680A 
> isn’t doing that or the AVR datasheet is wrong. Fortunately, there’s a 
> software workaround: fuse the controller for the internal 8 MHz oscillator 
> and switch over (I was surprised to learn that changing system clock sources 
> on the fly is an option) to the 5680 only once a physics lock is indicated by 
> the lock pin. That seems to be acceptably reliable. My purpose in mentioning 
> it is to see if anyone has examined the pre-lock behavior of the 5680 (I 
> understand it’s not a particularly interesting question) to see exactly how 
> jumpy it really is before it locks.
>
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A tuning step and pre-lock stability?

[Bob Camp]

Hi

If you go back into the archives, there are a long series of posts about the 
tuning word and tuning behavior 
of the 5880. Simple answers: No the real resolution is not the same as the LSB 
on the tuning word. The tuning is 
closer to 1x10^12 than to 1x10^-15.

Bob

> On May 7, 2016, at 12:51 AM, Nick Sayer via time-nuts  
> wrote:
> 
> I got a second 5680 in the mail the other day and so far my firmware isn’t 
> bricking it, so.. yay.
> 
> A couple of odd things have turned up, though.
> 
> 1. So far as I can experimentally tell, the tuning step on this unit is 50 
> times larger than the 17E-15 quoted by FEI. Either the tuning curve is not 
> linear or the tuning range is not what they claim (or both). I’d like to get 
> a feel for whether the standard deviation of the mid-range (near zero) tuning 
> step is. Is it closer to what I’m observing or FEI’s spec? The answer will 
> instruct me on how to pick the PLL gain constant for the firmware.
> 
> 2. Directly clocking an AVR from the 5680A is unreliable prior to lock. I 
> haven’t exhaustively examined the startup behavior of the 5680, but power-up 
> reset of my GPS board used to not happen a lot of the time, and manual reset 
> was required. The AVR datasheet says that as long as the clock frequency is 
> kept within 2% from cycle to cycle that that’s ok, but either this 5680A 
> isn’t doing that or the AVR datasheet is wrong. Fortunately, there’s a 
> software workaround: fuse the controller for the internal 8 MHz oscillator 
> and switch over (I was surprised to learn that changing system clock sources 
> on the fly is an option) to the 5680 only once a physics lock is indicated by 
> the lock pin. That seems to be acceptably reliable. My purpose in mentioning 
> it is to see if anyone has examined the pre-lock behavior of the 5680 (I 
> understand it’s not a particularly interesting question) to see exactly how 
> jumpy it really is before it locks.
> 
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[time-nuts] FE-5680A tuning step and pre-lock stability?

[Nick Sayer via time-nuts]

I got a second 5680 in the mail the other day and so far my firmware isn’t 
bricking it, so.. yay.

A couple of odd things have turned up, though.

1. So far as I can experimentally tell, the tuning step on this unit is 50 
times larger than the 17E-15 quoted by FEI. Either the tuning curve is not 
linear or the tuning range is not what they claim (or both). I’d like to get a 
feel for whether the standard deviation of the mid-range (near zero) tuning 
step is. Is it closer to what I’m observing or FEI’s spec? The answer will 
instruct me on how to pick the PLL gain constant for the firmware.

2. Directly clocking an AVR from the 5680A is unreliable prior to lock. I 
haven’t exhaustively examined the startup behavior of the 5680, but power-up 
reset of my GPS board used to not happen a lot of the time, and manual reset 
was required. The AVR datasheet says that as long as the clock frequency is 
kept within 2% from cycle to cycle that that’s ok, but either this 5680A isn’t 
doing that or the AVR datasheet is wrong. Fortunately, there’s a software 
workaround: fuse the controller for the internal 8 MHz oscillator and switch 
over (I was surprised to learn that changing system clock sources on the fly is 
an option) to the 5680 only once a physics lock is indicated by the lock pin. 
That seems to be acceptably reliable. My purpose in mentioning it is to see if 
anyone has examined the pre-lock behavior of the 5680 (I understand it’s not a 
particularly interesting question) to see exactly how jumpy it really is before 
it locks.

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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Breakout board

[gonzo .]

Hi John,
apologies for the delay.
The instructions were a 'work in progress' as I was sending out the kits, so 
sent PDFs instead of printed docs.
I've emailed you direct a copy of the latest version which is somewhat newer 
than the copy posted here.
If any one else is still to build their kit, just ask and I'll send the updated 
file.

73
ian

Hi Ian --

Happy holidays!

A few years ago I got some of the breakout board kits you did for the
FE-5680A.  They've finally risen to the top of my "to assemble pile." :-)

Looking for the schematic and any assembly info you might have available
-- I only have the boards and parts but can't find the docs.

Thanks and 73,
John
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Breakout board

[John Ackermann N8UR]

Apologies, all -- this wasn't meant for the list.  Thanks to another 
time-nut, though, I now have the info!


Best,
John


On 12/19/2015 12:53 PM, John Ackermann N8UR wrote:

Hi Ian --

Happy holidays!

A few years ago I got some of the breakout board kits you did for the
FE-5680A.  They've finally risen to the top of my "to assemble pile." :-)

Looking for the schematic and any assembly info you might have available
-- I only have the boards and parts but can't find the docs.

Thanks and 73,
John

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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Breakout board

[John Ackermann N8UR]

Hi Ian --

Happy holidays!

A few years ago I got some of the breakout board kits you did for the 
FE-5680A.  They've finally risen to the top of my "to assemble pile." :-)


Looking for the schematic and any assembly info you might have available 
-- I only have the boards and parts but can't find the docs.


Thanks and 73,
John

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[time-nuts] FE-5680A breakout board

[Nick Sayer via time-nuts]

I’d like to quickly mention that I’ve now got an FE-5680A “breakout board” for 
sale on Tindie.

It has a 2.1mm barrel connector for 16-24 VDC @ 30W - easily obtainable from a 
surplus laptop power supply. It has a buck converter to make 15V and an LDO 
(from that) to make 5V. It has a two pin SIP header for RF out and a 4 pin SIP 
header for serial and PPS. It has an LED for the “lock” indication, with a 
transistor to invert and buffer it. For me, this works well to power it and get 
the output into my TIA ext ref jack.

https://www.tindie.com/products/nsayer/fe-5680a-power-interface-board/
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A software calibration units ?

[ewkehren via time-nuts]

Depends on who you got it from




Sent from Samsung tabletNick Sayer via time-nuts  
wrote:When I got it, the setting was zero. That suggests to me that the factory 
tuning was erased, assuming that the factory tunes it the same way - by 
changing the value adjusted by that software.

> On Sep 21, 2015, at 4:34 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> Assuming it shows locked, that would suggest that (for what ever reason) 
> it’s been re-tuned at some point after it left the factory.
> 
> Bob
> 
>> On Sep 20, 2015, at 9:06 PM, Nick Sayer via time-nuts  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 19, 2015, at 4:20 PM, Nick Sayer via time-nuts  
>>> wrote:
>>> […]
>>> I’ve tested it against GPS and as it came, it had about a 0.5 ppm error.
>> 
>> Oops. That was supposed to be 0.5 ppb - 500 ppt.
>> 
>> 
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> 

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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A software calibration units ?

[Nick Sayer via time-nuts]

When I got it, the setting was zero. That suggests to me that the factory 
tuning was erased, assuming that the factory tunes it the same way - by 
changing the value adjusted by that software.

> On Sep 21, 2015, at 4:34 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> Assuming it shows locked, that would suggest that (for what ever reason) 
> it’s been re-tuned at some point after it left the factory.
> 
> Bob
> 
>> On Sep 20, 2015, at 9:06 PM, Nick Sayer via time-nuts  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 19, 2015, at 4:20 PM, Nick Sayer via time-nuts  
>>> wrote:
>>> […]
>>> I’ve tested it against GPS and as it came, it had about a 0.5 ppm error.
>> 
>> Oops. That was supposed to be 0.5 ppb - 500 ppt.
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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> 

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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A software calibration units ?

[Bob Camp]

Hi

Assuming it shows locked, that would suggest that (for what ever reason) 
it’s been re-tuned at some point after it left the factory.

Bob

> On Sep 20, 2015, at 9:06 PM, Nick Sayer via time-nuts  
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Sep 19, 2015, at 4:20 PM, Nick Sayer via time-nuts  
>> wrote:
>> […]
>> I’ve tested it against GPS and as it came, it had about a 0.5 ppm error.
> 
> Oops. That was supposed to be 0.5 ppb - 500 ppt.
> 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A software calibration units ?

[Nick Sayer via time-nuts]

> On Sep 19, 2015, at 4:20 PM, Nick Sayer via time-nuts  
> wrote:
> […]
> I’ve tested it against GPS and as it came, it had about a 0.5 ppm error.

Oops. That was supposed to be 0.5 ppb - 500 ppt.


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[time-nuts] FE-5680A software calibration units ?

[Nick Sayer via time-nuts]

I’ve designed and built a small power/interface board for my FE-5680A. It takes 
DC power from a surplus laptop power supply (16-24 VDC) and uses a buck 
converter to drop that down to 15v and a 5v LDO to supply the 5v pin. It brings 
the serial and PPS out to a 4 pin SIP header and the 10 MHz to a separate 2 pin 
SIP. I’m going to rev the design to use a transistor to drive the “ready” LED, 
but it’s working fine (since I’m not using the PPS output), since I used a 
higher than normal series resistor for the LED (560 ohms to +5) for the 
meantime.

I’ve tested it against GPS and as it came, it had about a 0.5 ppm error. I’ve 
downloaded the VK4XV calibrator and setting the offset to 1000 *appears* to 
have squared it within my ability to measure. That suggests that the units for 
the calibrator are 0.5 ppt. Does that resonate (pun intended) with anyone 
else’s experience?
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A pin 6?

[jmfranke]

There are many options. Describe the connector(s). Some have more than one 
connector. What have you applied to each pin? Do not say you applied +15v AND 
+5V, etc. without saying which pins. 

John WA4WDL


 Bob Camp  wrote: 
> Hi
> 
> There are far more unique pinouts for the 5680 than anybody can keep track 
> of. Three also is very little that ties the markings on the unit to a 
> specific pinout. If you are getting -5V, my guess is that you have an RS-232 
> output on that pin. 
> 
> Normal drill is to go back to the seller and see what they do or don’t know 
> about it. 
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> > On Sep 10, 2015, at 9:06 PM, Nick Sayer via time-nuts  
> > wrote:
> > 
> > I’ve acquired an eBay 5680. I’ve hooked it up to +15 and +5 and am getting 
> > 10 MHz out and the test pin is low. The unit is warm and within any 
> > reasonable expectations, it appears to be working properly.
> > 
> > What I wonder about is pin 6 on the connector. Google results seem to 
> > indicate that that’s supposed to be a PPS output, but what I get on it is a 
> > fixed -5v or so. Anybody know what this signal is supposed to be?
> > 
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A pin 6?

[Hal Murray]

> I figured it out. I was counting the bottom row from the wrong end. To
> actually find the PPS signal I had to set my scope to one-shot triggering at
> a very fast timebase setting (I used 500 ns/div). It’s only 1 µs wide, but
> it was there. 

Most scopes have some sort of indication that they are getting triggered, and 
old analog scopes usually have a one-shot on there so the light stays on long 
enough to see.  That usually works even if the signal is too infrequent or 
too narrow to show up on the screen.


-- 
These are my opinions.  I hate spam.



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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A pin 6?

[Nick Sayer via time-nuts]

I figured it out. I was counting the bottom row from the wrong end. To actually 
find the PPS signal I had to set my scope to one-shot triggering at a very fast 
timebase setting (I used 500 ns/div). It’s only 1 µs wide, but it was there.

> On Sep 11, 2015, at 6:07 AM, Nick Sayer  wrote:
> 
> That makes sense. Thanks! That’ll help when it comes time to attempt to 
> calibrate it. In this case, I doubt the seller speaks enough English to ask. 
> But I can look at all of the pinout variations to find one with a TX pin on 
> that wire.
> 
>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 3:59 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> There are far more unique pinouts for the 5680 than anybody can keep track 
>> of. Three also is very little that ties the markings on the unit to a 
>> specific pinout. If you are getting -5V, my guess is that you have an RS-232 
>> output on that pin. 
>> 
>> Normal drill is to go back to the seller and see what they do or don’t know 
>> about it. 
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 10, 2015, at 9:06 PM, Nick Sayer via time-nuts  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I’ve acquired an eBay 5680. I’ve hooked it up to +15 and +5 and am getting 
>>> 10 MHz out and the test pin is low. The unit is warm and within any 
>>> reasonable expectations, it appears to be working properly.
>>> 
>>> What I wonder about is pin 6 on the connector. Google results seem to 
>>> indicate that that’s supposed to be a PPS output, but what I get on it is a 
>>> fixed -5v or so. Anybody know what this signal is supposed to be?
>>> 
>>> ___
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>> 
> 

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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A pin 6?

[EB4APL]

Hi Nick,

FE-5680A is a whole family of Rb oscillators that have in common the 
case and name but the functionality, connectors and inner stuff varies a 
lot.  Some are programmable on a wide frequency margin, others has a 
fixed frequency output, mostly 10 MHz.  The connector arrangement also 
varies but you probably are referring to one with the P/N 217400-30352-1.
These units have a 1 PPS output on pin 6, the signal is normally at 0 
volts with a 1 uS wide 1PPS at about 5 volts.  This low duty cycle 
signal is difficult to see on an analog scope but you can see the 
trigger light blinking at each pulse.
The 1PPS signal is buffered by U503, a 74ACT240SC-ND chip. A word of 
caution here: since the driver circuitry is shared with the Lock output, 
an excessive (ie. a LED) load on the lock pin cause the 1PPS to 
disappear.  Please recheck the output voltage on pin 6, -5 volts doesn't 
make any sense for me, even with a driver chip failure (I have busted 
mine some time ago by connecting the +15 V power supply to the 5 volts 
input, a consequence of the disperse information about these units that 
circulate on Internet. Apparently on some units pin 6 is the +5 volt 
input so you can also ruin the driver following this wiring list.
If you are interested I have the board schematics that was reverse 
engineered by a member of this list who unfortunately I cannot give 
credit because I don't remember who is.  I can send it it directly to 
you if you want it.


Regards,
Ignacio EB4APL


El 11/09/2015 a las 3:06, Nick Sayer via time-nuts wrote:

I’ve acquired an eBay 5680. I’ve hooked it up to +15 and +5 and am getting 10 
MHz out and the test pin is low. The unit is warm and within any reasonable 
expectations, it appears to be working properly.

What I wonder about is pin 6 on the connector. Google results seem to indicate 
that that’s supposed to be a PPS output, but what I get on it is a fixed -5v or 
so. Anybody know what this signal is supposed to be?

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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A pin 6?

[Nick Sayer via time-nuts]

That makes sense. Thanks! That’ll help when it comes time to attempt to 
calibrate it. In this case, I doubt the seller speaks enough English to ask. 
But I can look at all of the pinout variations to find one with a TX pin on 
that wire.

> On Sep 11, 2015, at 3:59 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> There are far more unique pinouts for the 5680 than anybody can keep track 
> of. Three also is very little that ties the markings on the unit to a 
> specific pinout. If you are getting -5V, my guess is that you have an RS-232 
> output on that pin. 
> 
> Normal drill is to go back to the seller and see what they do or don’t know 
> about it. 
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
>> On Sep 10, 2015, at 9:06 PM, Nick Sayer via time-nuts  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I’ve acquired an eBay 5680. I’ve hooked it up to +15 and +5 and am getting 
>> 10 MHz out and the test pin is low. The unit is warm and within any 
>> reasonable expectations, it appears to be working properly.
>> 
>> What I wonder about is pin 6 on the connector. Google results seem to 
>> indicate that that’s supposed to be a PPS output, but what I get on it is a 
>> fixed -5v or so. Anybody know what this signal is supposed to be?
>> 
>> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A pin 6?

[Bob Camp]

Hi

There are far more unique pinouts for the 5680 than anybody can keep track of. 
Three also is very little that ties the markings on the unit to a specific 
pinout. If you are getting -5V, my guess is that you have an RS-232 output on 
that pin. 

Normal drill is to go back to the seller and see what they do or don’t know 
about it. 

Bob


> On Sep 10, 2015, at 9:06 PM, Nick Sayer via time-nuts  
> wrote:
> 
> I’ve acquired an eBay 5680. I’ve hooked it up to +15 and +5 and am getting 10 
> MHz out and the test pin is low. The unit is warm and within any reasonable 
> expectations, it appears to be working properly.
> 
> What I wonder about is pin 6 on the connector. Google results seem to 
> indicate that that’s supposed to be a PPS output, but what I get on it is a 
> fixed -5v or so. Anybody know what this signal is supposed to be?
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A pin 6?

[cfo]

On Thu, 10 Sep 2015 18:06:23 -0700, Nick Sayer via time-nuts wrote:


> What I wonder about is pin 6 on the connector. Google results seem to
> indicate that that’s supposed to be a PPS output, but what I get on it
> is a fixed -5v or so. Anybody know what this signal is supposed to be?

AFAIK

The "Lock" pin is loading the 1PPS pin , meaning if you have a LED on the 
"Lock" you should buffer it, else there will be no 1PPS.

But -5v doesn't seem right.




-- 
E-mail:xne...@luna.dyndns.dk

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[time-nuts] FE-5680A pin 6?

[Nick Sayer via time-nuts]

I’ve acquired an eBay 5680. I’ve hooked it up to +15 and +5 and am getting 10 
MHz out and the test pin is low. The unit is warm and within any reasonable 
expectations, it appears to be working properly.

What I wonder about is pin 6 on the connector. Google results seem to indicate 
that that’s supposed to be a PPS output, but what I get on it is a fixed -5v or 
so. Anybody know what this signal is supposed to be?

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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A commands

[Cube Central]

Hi there

I've come across the following resources for the one I was fooling with...

Here, on the archive of this list:
https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2008-June/031663.html

Some more information:
http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/fei5650a/

A really good PDF here:
http://www.dd1us.de/Downloads/precise%20reference%20frequency%20rev%201_0.pdf

A datasheet with more information on the hexadecimal frequency setting:
http://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/AD9830.pdf


Hope some of this helps!

-Randal "r3" of CubeCentral


-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of EB4APL
Sent: Friday, 19 June, 2015 10:30
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: [time-nuts] FE-5680A commands

Hello,

I was wondering if anybody has the full command set for this Rb oscillator.  I 
know that FE-5680A means very different things and some commands are unit type 
dependent, but I think that there should be commands to monitor some health 
data, something similar to the LPRO-101 and FRS-C which have analog outputs of 
the lamp and oscillator voltages.
Also since this unit has a 1PPS output, maybe a means of steering it is built 
in.
I have the FE-5680A Calibrator program by Bob Campbell VK4XV, but it only uses 
the offset commands, maybe others have developed other programs or at least 
have the command info.

Regards,
Ignacio EB4APL
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A commands

[Bob Camp]

Hi

If you dig into the archives (maybe 3 years ago), there was a lot of digging 
into various 5680 commands. As you have noted, there apparently isn’t anything 
like a “standard” 5680. The appear to have made a number of different designs 
over the years. There are multiple different pc board layouts, and both parts 
stuffing and firmware differences within the layouts. About all you can be sure 
of when you see it’s a 5680 is the outer dimensions on the case ….

All that said, there *should* be a list of random commands that people tried 
and got responses to. This included some where the responses *probably* 
contained status information. I do not recall anybody ever coming up with a 
complete command list or a decoder from FEI. 

Bob

> On Jun 19, 2015, at 12:29 PM, EB4APL  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I was wondering if anybody has the full command set for this Rb oscillator.  
> I know that FE-5680A means very different things and some commands are unit 
> type dependent, but I think that there should be commands to monitor some 
> health data, something similar to the LPRO-101 and FRS-C which have analog 
> outputs of the lamp and oscillator voltages.
> Also since this unit has a 1PPS output, maybe a means of steering it is built 
> in.
> I have the FE-5680A Calibrator program by Bob Campbell VK4XV, but it only 
> uses the offset commands, maybe others have developed other programs or at 
> least have the command info.
> 
> Regards,
> Ignacio EB4APL
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A commands

[Cube Central]

Hi there

I've come across the following resources for the one I was fooling with...

Here, on the archive of this list:
https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2008-June/031663.html

Some more information:
http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/fei5650a/

A really good PDF here:
http://www.dd1us.de/Downloads/precise%20reference%20frequency%20rev%201_0.pdf

A datasheet with more information on the hexadecimal frequency setting:
http://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/AD9830.pdf


Hope some of this helps!

-Randal "r3" of CubeCentral


-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of EB4APL
Sent: Friday, 19 June, 2015 10:30
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: [time-nuts] FE-5680A commands

Hello,

I was wondering if anybody has the full command set for this Rb oscillator.  I 
know that FE-5680A means very different things and some commands are unit type 
dependent, but I think that there should be commands to monitor some health 
data, something similar to the LPRO-101 and FRS-C which have analog outputs of 
the lamp and oscillator voltages.
Also since this unit has a 1PPS output, maybe a means of steering it is built 
in.
I have the FE-5680A Calibrator program by Bob Campbell VK4XV, but it only uses 
the offset commands, maybe others have developed other programs or at least 
have the command info.

Regards,
Ignacio EB4APL
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[time-nuts] FE-5680A commands

[EB4APL]

Hello,

I was wondering if anybody has the full command set for this Rb 
oscillator.  I know that FE-5680A means very different things and some 
commands are unit type dependent, but I think that there should be 
commands to monitor some health data, something similar to the LPRO-101 
and FRS-C which have analog outputs of the lamp and oscillator voltages.
Also since this unit has a 1PPS output, maybe a means of steering it is 
built in.
I have the FE-5680A Calibrator program by Bob Campbell VK4XV, but it 
only uses the offset commands, maybe others have developed other 
programs or at least have the command info.


Regards,
Ignacio EB4APL
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[time-nuts] FE-5680a DGND/GND separate?

[Ryan Stasel]

All, 

I'm doing a simple PCB design for a breakout for the venerable FE-5680a, and 
I'm curious if there's any need/desire to separate out the GND/DGND (pins 2 and 
5). In my test connection, I just used pin 2 for grounding the 15V supply, and 
pin 5 for everything else, but I figured they're connected internally to the 
oscillator, so I'm not sure the point. 

Is there any point in separating out those grounds? 

Thanks! 

-Ryan Stasel
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[time-nuts] FE 5680A disciplined controller

[EWKehren]

The development phase of the FE 5680A disciplined controller is nearing  
its completion in no small part thanks to Scott's work on frequency/  
temperature control. As I have pointed out in the past we have no plans to use  
the 
5680 so Juerg  is considering selling his FE5680A along with controller  and 
auxiliary assembled and tested.. If some one in Europe preferable in  
Switzerland is interested please contact Juerg off list   _j.koegel@bluewin.ch_ 
(mailto:j.koe...@bluewin.ch) . Would also help with  independent test before 
roll out.
Nert Kehren
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[time-nuts] FE 5680A GPSDO update second link problem

[EWKehren]

Some how a dot snuck in at the end of the second link after the s you can  
use the old link and delete the dot or use this one
http://n5tnl.com/time/fe-5680a/gpsdo/JK5680A_Test35c.xls
Sorry about  that
Bert Kehren
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[time-nuts] FE 5680A GPSDO update

[EWKehren]

First let me thank again Scott Newell for all the work he has  done. The 
links included in this post where made possible by Scott. All three  exceed 
the limit of time nuts but will give you a better understanding as to  what is 
going on. First removing the 10 K resistor changes the Rb frequency any  
where between 2 to 3.5 E-10 upward. It is a function of the temperature of the 
 device. In the first link you will see what happened right after removing 
the 10  K.
http://n5tnl.com/time/fe-5680a/gpsdo/JK5680A_Test35.xls  Allow me to explain
The first collum is time in seconds followed by time in hours. The third  
is phase input measured by the loop The loop will try to set it to 14080.  We 
call that the set point. The next column shows the delta to the set point  
followed by the control word send to the unit and its 2's compliment. 2's  
compliment since in this case it is mostly a very large negative number 
easier  to read. Finally the status word which shows a 1 saying it is unlocked 
followed  by a 0 other options are glitch hold and alpha. the third column 
shows which  mode. The way it is presently programmed it will advance to Mode 5 
and  alpha.  That would show up here as 15.
Before the modification this Rb showed when settled -124. The 1 pps comes  
from a $ 16 ublox M7 no sawtooth correction.. At about 18.5 hours the GPS 
filter  is activated with a 12 setting and you notice a dramatic change in the 
control  word. still has a few more steps. What you see is frequency 
correction do to  influences like GPS Rb and its temperature. Rb has only a 
heatsink, no  temperature control.
Next this mornings readings.  
http://n5tnl.com/time/fe-5680a/gpsdo/JK5680A_Test35c.xls.  This is more of the 
same but you see a dramatic change between 
day  (left) and night (right) allowing me to check when he is not  working.
Summarizing temperature control is not a requirement but the curve will  be 
flattened if the Rb is held at a constant temperature. Each digit is a 
change  of 6.8-13. but it is not directly correlated to the output frequency, 
what it  says it is the control word that according to the filter function 
tries to set  it exactly to 10 MHz. The plot that I attached so many times may 
contribute to  the frequency in 1 second increments that most likely is 
reduced by disabling  the heater current sensing but there may be other  
sources.
That is why I feel strong about a clean up loop. Those happy with what  you 
see stop right now. Again thanks to Scott here is a link to the Auxillary  
board schematic. 
http://n5tnl.com/time/fe-5680a/gpsdo/AUXILLARYBOARDrevA27-04-2014.pdf   I did 
post a picture but to file limitation was not able to 
post  the schematic. It has room for power conditioning a PIC and two flexible 
outpu  circuits. First the PIC takes the output of the controller (attached) 
and  modifies it in such a way that it can drive a FTDI USB adapter to 
store the  output without PC requirement. The code is presently in PIC Basic 
would like to  find some one to write PIC code so we can use FTDI and a I2C 
display. Scott is  looking at it but if some one has the expertise would  help.
The outputs can be individually set to 5 or 10  MHz.
A third board is presently in the works by an other time nut. All boards  
will be in Gerber. He is working on a temperature control board. All boards 
are  5 X 5 cm.  What is missing is a clean up filter board. I am looking for  
someone that can do it in Gerber, please contact me off list. We have a 
circuit  but it is on expressPCB and should be modified for this  application.
I look at it the following way. More than half the cost of the kit  is 
taken  up by pay pal, shipping kitting etc. Boards are the smallest  cost part 
and going from one to 4 will only increase the kit cost by $ 5. In my  book a 
bargain. 
Comments are appreciated
Bert Kehren
Some may not get this post because AOL for instance flags it as  spam

Typical  RS 232 output.doc
Description: Binary data
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A sweep range setting

[Paul Berger]

On 3/01/14 11:35 AM, Magnus Danielson wrote:

On 24/02/14 19:14, Paul Berger wrote:

A couple further observations, to make life easier when adjusting C245
you can unplug the top card and move it aside, the CVXO will lock
without it, but you will not have the 10MHz to monitor, but you can
monitor the CVXO output instead.  On the 6 pin connector you will see a
1 near the outer long edge of the second card, the CVXO output appears
on pin 5 of this connector and on mine, it locks at 50.25505808 MHz
according to my 5335A.   I also noted that when the 5680A is well warmed
up it sweeps through a much smaller range.


In that case it would be good if the "mid" voltage would be 
established, so that once lock have been achieved, further trimming 
can be done until the VCXO steering is in the middle of the range. 
That would make sure there is plenty of margin to either end, rather 
than sitting on the edge and just barely lock.


Cheers,
Magnus
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and follow the instructions there.
After some careful looking around, I determined that this C245 that we 
are adjusting is part of an LC tank in one leg of the crystal. The one 
that I am having trouble with definitely has a fault in the VCXO 
oscillator it seems to want to start up up at about 50% of the desired 
frequency with a very small noisey signal, but if I touch almost 
anything around the crystal it snap into the right frequency range, with 
a nice strong, clean sine wave  and locks rather quickly.  I am finding 
it hard to trace out the circuit as this little card has components on 
both sides of it, and to make matters worse seems to be multi layer as 
well.  I have set it aside for now but will go back to it later.


I thought it was a little odd that these do not have a block of 
insulation over the bulb, does this matter?  The other thing that is 
different about  the two that I just got, from my first one is, these 
seem to be using an AD9830A synthesizer chip to generate the 10MHz 
output signal.  There is a PIC beside which likely controls it and the 
PIC is connected to a RS-232 level converter chip however the external 
side of the RS232 chip is currently not connected to anything, but that 
can be quickly remedied.


Paul.
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A sweep range setting

[Bob Camp]

Hi

I seem to recall that many of the bad transitions get ruled out for this or 
that reason. The number of “threats” isn’t as big as you might think. There is 
basically one close in transition and everything else is quite a bit further 
out. 

Bob

On Mar 1, 2014, at 1:48 PM, Magnus Danielson  wrote:

> Hi Bob,
> 
> On 01/03/14 16:55, Bob Camp wrote:
>> Hi
>> 
>> I am not at all sure that a mid setting on the VCXO is really the right 
>> thing to do.
> 
> It's not really the right thing to do. You should trim it to one end so that 
> further continuous drift makes trimming time longer than putting it at the 
> mid.
> 
>> I’ve seen quite a few Rb’s from a number of manufacturers. They all seem to 
>> set up the
>> sweep process so it sweeps fairly far low but not very far high. There are 
>> multiple
>> quantum state transitions possible with a Rb. They may be trying to get the 
>> good one
>> and avoid a near by bad one.
> 
> Since the nearby bad ones is evenly distributed around the central good one, 
> your way of reasoning doesn't really work.
> 
> Cheers,
> Magnus
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A sweep range setting

[Magnus Danielson]

Hi Bob,

On 01/03/14 16:55, Bob Camp wrote:

Hi

I am not at all sure that a mid setting on the VCXO is really the right thing 
to do.


It's not really the right thing to do. You should trim it to one end so 
that further continuous drift makes trimming time longer than putting it 
at the mid.



I’ve seen quite a few Rb’s from a number of manufacturers. They all seem to set 
up the
sweep process so it sweeps fairly far low but not very far high. There are 
multiple
quantum state transitions possible with a Rb. They may be trying to get the 
good one
and avoid a near by bad one.


Since the nearby bad ones is evenly distributed around the central good 
one, your way of reasoning doesn't really work.


Cheers,
Magnus
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A sweep range setting

[Bob Camp]

Hi

I am not at all sure that a mid setting on the VCXO is really the right thing 
to do. I’ve seen quite a few Rb’s from a number of manufacturers. They all seem 
to set up the sweep process so it sweeps fairly far low but not very far high. 
There are multiple quantum state transitions possible with a Rb. They may be 
trying to get the good one and avoid a near by bad one.

Bob

On Mar 1, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Magnus Danielson  
wrote:

> On 24/02/14 19:14, Paul Berger wrote:
>> A couple further observations, to make life easier when adjusting C245
>> you can unplug the top card and move it aside, the CVXO will lock
>> without it, but you will not have the 10MHz to monitor, but you can
>> monitor the CVXO output instead.  On the 6 pin connector you will see a
>> 1 near the outer long edge of the second card, the CVXO output appears
>> on pin 5 of this connector and on mine, it locks at 50.25505808 MHz
>> according to my 5335A.   I also noted that when the 5680A is well warmed
>> up it sweeps through a much smaller range.
> 
> In that case it would be good if the "mid" voltage would be established, so 
> that once lock have been achieved, further trimming can be done until the 
> VCXO steering is in the middle of the range. That would make sure there is 
> plenty of margin to either end, rather than sitting on the edge and just 
> barely lock.
> 
> Cheers,
> Magnus
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A sweep range setting

[Magnus Danielson]

On 24/02/14 19:14, Paul Berger wrote:

A couple further observations, to make life easier when adjusting C245
you can unplug the top card and move it aside, the CVXO will lock
without it, but you will not have the 10MHz to monitor, but you can
monitor the CVXO output instead.  On the 6 pin connector you will see a
1 near the outer long edge of the second card, the CVXO output appears
on pin 5 of this connector and on mine, it locks at 50.25505808 MHz
according to my 5335A.   I also noted that when the 5680A is well warmed
up it sweeps through a much smaller range.


In that case it would be good if the "mid" voltage would be established, 
so that once lock have been achieved, further trimming can be done until 
the VCXO steering is in the middle of the range. That would make sure 
there is plenty of margin to either end, rather than sitting on the edge 
and just barely lock.


Cheers,
Magnus
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A sweep range setting

[Paul Berger]

A couple further observations, to make life easier when adjusting C245 
you can unplug the top card and move it aside, the CVXO will lock 
without it, but you will not have the 10MHz to monitor, but you can 
monitor the CVXO output instead.  On the 6 pin connector you will see a 
1 near the outer long edge of the second card, the CVXO output appears 
on pin 5 of this connector and on mine, it locks at 50.25505808 MHz 
according to my 5335A.   I also noted that when the 5680A is well warmed 
up it sweeps through a much smaller range.


It would appear that the one I had trouble getting to lock has some 
secondary issue.  I can get it to lock playing with C245 but the when I 
power off and back on it seems the  CVXO does not start properly 
measured frequency is low and outputs a very weak signal, injecting some 
capacitance by touching a metal screwdriver to the end of one capacitor 
gets it going and once that happens it will lock pretty quickly more 
investigation needed.


Paul.


On 2/23/14 6:01 PM, Simon Lyons wrote:

OK ... I have C245 on the middle board, same as you. Tweaking it and ...

Hmmm, it does affect the range (twitchy is an understatement!) but 
still no lock. To be continued


Now by the 'frequency control board' do you mean the board that 
overlaps the top of the D-Sub connector? I have been at a loss to 
understand this section. There is all sorts of silicon on it but no 
inputs of any kind. Just a 5V supply and a single analog output of 
1.99V on the orange wire. I'm baffled, so if you know what this board 
is doing, please tell!

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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A sweep range setting

[Ed Palmer]

I also have a 5680A with that strange little board.  On a hunch, I 
disconnected the orange wire and injected a DC voltage into the main 
board.  It caused the frequency to change.  I don't know if it's the 
C-field control or another mechanism, but the result is the same.


Ed

On 2/23/2014 4:01 PM, Simon Lyons wrote:

OK ... I have C245 on the middle board, same as you. Tweaking it and ...

Hmmm, it does affect the range (twitchy is an understatement!) but 
still no lock. To be continued


Now by the 'frequency control board' do you mean the board that 
overlaps the top of the D-Sub connector? I have been at a loss to 
understand this section. There is all sorts of silicon on it but no 
inputs of any kind. Just a 5V supply and a single analog output of 
1.99V on the orange wire. I'm baffled, so if you know what this board 
is doing, please tell!




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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A sweep range setting

[Paul Berger]

Yes It took me several tries to find the spot, I only had success when I 
began only moving it in tiny increments I was not getting anywhere with 
1/4 or 1/8 turn adjustments, and you should leave it a few minutes on 
each try when mine finally did lock is started at a little over 10MHz 
and then dipped down 300 - 400 Hz below and wander around a bit down 
there, and I was ready to turn it off and tweak it again when it started 
back up and went across 10MHz and then it wandered back and forth across 
the 10MHz line before it finally locked.I just ran across another 
reference to that C245 
http://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2013-January/073442.html.



What I was referring to as the frequency control board does look like it 
would be mounted over the DB9 connector.  The two that I just got do not 
have this board installed on the  pictures link I posted it is at the 
center of IMGP2309_m and IMGP2310_m.  At 
http://ko4bb.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=precision_timing:fe5680a_faq there 
is a short comment about this card under "Electronic Frequency Control 
(EFC)"  beyond that I do not know anything about the function of this card.


Paul.


On 2/23/14 6:01 PM, Simon Lyons wrote:

OK ... I have C245 on the middle board, same as you. Tweaking it and ...

Hmmm, it does affect the range (twitchy is an understatement!) but 
still no lock. To be continued


Now by the 'frequency control board' do you mean the board that 
overlaps the top of the D-Sub connector? I have been at a loss to 
understand this section. There is all sorts of silicon on it but no 
inputs of any kind. Just a 5V supply and a single analog output of 
1.99V on the orange wire. I'm baffled, so if you know what this board 
is doing, please tell!

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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A sweep range setting

[Simon Lyons]

OK ... I have C245 on the middle board, same as you. Tweaking it and ...

Hmmm, it does affect the range (twitchy is an understatement!) but still 
no lock. To be continued


Now by the 'frequency control board' do you mean the board that overlaps 
the top of the D-Sub connector? I have been at a loss to understand this 
section. There is all sorts of silicon on it but no inputs of any kind. 
Just a 5V supply and a single analog output of 1.99V on the orange wire. 
I'm baffled, so if you know what this board is doing, please tell!

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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A sweep range setting

[Simon Lyons]

Thank you Paul, there is some detailed info there which is sure to be 
helpful. The number of variations on this thing is mind boggling.


FYI my two identical units havePPS out, no RF out and don't require 5V 
in. I will probably wire the RF out to pin 4 of the D-Sub.


I will let you know if I have success with the sweep frequency on this 
unit. It suffered a heavy blow en route from China which dented the 
outer casing and the physics package. It also broke the solder joint 
between one of the heater FETs and the lamp housing. I repaired that 
with conductive epoxy and judging by the current consumption(and purple 
glow)thetemp regulation seems to be workingnow. I just need to adjust 
the sweep freq and I will have two working units to play with!


Cheers,

// Simon






--

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 15:37:45 -0400
From: Paul Berger 
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A sweep range setting
Message-ID: <5303b689.7070...@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Hi,

I have a couple that look like the one in these pictures minus the the
little frequency control board.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/14336723@N08/sets/72157632394339366/
One of mine would not lock so what I did I looked at my other 5680A
which is the type referred to in the tip about C217 and looked at how it
is connected in relation to the crystal  for the VCXO, which is very
close to C217.  In the ones that I have with the stacked cards this
crystal is on the middle card with a little block of foam over it.  Near
this crystal is a trim cap C245 that seems to be connected the same way
relative to the crystal and by adjusting it I was able to get mine to
lock, but did find the adjustment to be a bit twitchy and since it is on
the middle card, you need to remove the top one every time you want to
tweak it a bit.

The one that I have are marked with option 57 and instead of having a
flange around the edge like many of the telecom surplus ones it is
mounted on a piece of 1/4" aluminum plate.The top card has a PIC on
it and there is a RS232 level converter chip there but it looks like the
connection only go to the 5 pin connector next to the SP232ACT RS232
chip.  This one does not require external +5V and in fact bring out the
10MHz on pin 4 where others seem to connect +5V. there does not appear
to be any PPS output either.  These also have a cutout to expose the 15
pin connector that is on the base board in front of the physics package.

Paul.

On 2/17/14 11:03 PM, Simon Lyons wrote:

Hello everyone,

I have a 5680 which is failing to lock. My DDS frequency is 8388608Hz,
but it's sweeping between about 8388638 and 8388740. My unit has 3
levels of PCBs in the DDS/VCO corner and there is no trimcap labeled
C217. Does anyone know how to adjust the sweep center frequency on
this type of 'triple decker' unit?

Thanks,

=Simon=
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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 12:34:00 -0800
From: "Chris Smith" 
To: 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 10811-60165 Double Oven Crystal Oscillator
Pin-Outs
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="iso-8859-1"

That pin-out sounds promising as this unit has
BLK-RED-BLK-ORG-YEL-GRN-BLU, which seems consistent with the one that
you provided. Did you source that from one of HP's various guides or
somewhere else?

CS

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com]On
Behalf Of Richard H McCorkle
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 11:07 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 10811-60165 Double Oven Crystal Oscillator
Pin-Outs


Chris,

The 10811-60165 may be similar to the HP 10811-60158
that uses using the following pin-out:

1 - BRN Oscillator Return (Com)
2 - RED Oscillator Power (+12V)
3 - ORG Oven Monitor Return (Com)
4 - YEL Oven Monitor Output
5 - GRN Oven Power (+18-24V)
6 - BLU Oven Return (Com)

The following description is from the 10811 A/B Manual
where the recommended oven monitor circuit is shown:

The Oven Monitor Output is an indicator of oven warm-up.
At initial turn-on (warmup) the oven monitor will go to
approximately 1.5 volts below the oven power supply
voltage. After the oven cuts back, the output will drop
to approximately 3.5 volts (at 25?C). The output
impedance of this circuit is 10,000 ohms.

Richard


I've seen a pin-out for the outer-oven 6-position connector (2 heater

wires,

2 thermistor wires), but I've not found anything on the pin-out of the

other

6-position connector. Has anyone come across the pin-outs for the
10811-60165 connectors?

CS
___

Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A sweep range setting

[Paul Berger]

Hi,

I have a couple that look like the one in these pictures minus the the 
little frequency control board. 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/14336723@N08/sets/72157632394339366/
One of mine would not lock so what I did I looked at my other 5680A 
which is the type referred to in the tip about C217 and looked at how it 
is connected in relation to the crystal  for the VCXO, which is very 
close to C217.  In the ones that I have with the stacked cards this 
crystal is on the middle card with a little block of foam over it.  Near 
this crystal is a trim cap C245 that seems to be connected the same way 
relative to the crystal and by adjusting it I was able to get mine to 
lock, but did find the adjustment to be a bit twitchy and since it is on 
the middle card, you need to remove the top one every time you want to 
tweak it a bit.


The one that I have are marked with option 57 and instead of having a 
flange around the edge like many of the telecom surplus ones it is 
mounted on a piece of 1/4" aluminum plate.The top card has a PIC on 
it and there is a RS232 level converter chip there but it looks like the 
connection only go to the 5 pin connector next to the SP232ACT RS232 
chip.  This one does not require external +5V and in fact bring out the 
10MHz on pin 4 where others seem to connect +5V. there does not appear 
to be any PPS output either.  These also have a cutout to expose the 15 
pin connector that is on the base board in front of the physics package.


Paul.

On 2/17/14 11:03 PM, Simon Lyons wrote:

Hello everyone,

I have a 5680 which is failing to lock. My DDS frequency is 8388608Hz, 
but it's sweeping between about 8388638 and 8388740. My unit has 3 
levels of PCBs in the DDS/VCO corner and there is no trimcap labeled 
C217. Does anyone know how to adjust the sweep center frequency on 
this type of 'triple decker' unit?


Thanks,

=Simon=
___
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[time-nuts] FE-5680A sweep range setting

[Simon Lyons]

Hello everyone,

I have a 5680 which is failing to lock. My DDS frequency is 8388608Hz, 
but it's sweeping between about 8388638 and 8388740. My unit has 3 
levels of PCBs in the DDS/VCO corner and there is no trimcap labeled 
C217. Does anyone know how to adjust the sweep center frequency on this 
type of 'triple decker' unit?


Thanks,

=Simon=
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator

[Angus]

Hi,

A lot of indicator outputs on oscillators and other things are completely or 
primarily pull-downs, just like some microcontroller pins.

The problem with surplus stuff like this that don't come with exact datasheets 
for their options is that you have to work out for yourself how it's 
configured, etc. If it does not look like a proper TTL or CMOS output 
(especially when loaded a little) it's worth checking to see if it is a pull 
down.
Sometimes they're just weird (or faulty!). It all depends what they were 
designed to connect to.

I find low current LEDs are useful to give some indication with minimal loading 
to reduce the chance of any complications, since you never know what else is 
going on. A while back there was some discussion of the pps output on some 
5680As not working because of the lock indicator pin being pulled down too much.

More info at
http://www.ko4bb.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=precision_timing:fe5680a_faq
if you have not already seen it.

Angus.



From: "Bob Stewart" 
To: "Time Nuts" 
Sent: September 22, 2013 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator

I hadn't thought of using a pullup resistor.  I'd have to get out the 
calculator to see if it's worth it, though.  It's only taking a load for a 
minute or two till it locks, so I don't think it's a problem.

Bob





>
> From: Chris Stake 
>To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' ; 'Bob Stewart'  
>Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 2:06 PM
>Subject: RE: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
> 
>
>I have a circuit that seems to work well:
>The lock indicator is a weak source but a good sink so it interfaces more
>naturally with a pnp or p-channel device. Pull it up to 5V with 100K and
>connect this point to the gate of a P channel Mosfet whose source is also
>connected to 5V. Connect the drain of the mosfet to a LED anode and take the
>LED cathode via 220 R to 0V.
>This way, the sense of the indicator is correct (0n = lock) and the drive
>capability of the lock signal works in your favour.
>
>Chris Stake  
>
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
>> Behalf Of Bob Camp
>> Sent: 22 September 2013 18:53
>> To: Bob Stewart; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> If you want 10 ma through the LED (which should be plenty) then the
>> collector resistor would be right around 1.2K
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>> On Sep 22, 2013, at 1:32 PM, Bob Stewart  wrote:
>> 
>> > D'oh, that should say "I could increase the COLLECTOR resistor to 1500
>> ohms".
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> 
>> >> From: Bob Stewart 
>> >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>> >> 
>> >> Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 12:27 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Except that it doesn't work with even 1500 ohms in the base lead.  The
>> LED immediately comes on and stays on.  I could increase the emitter
>> resistor to 1500 ohms and get around 8.5-9ma through the LED, but I'm done
>> playing with it until I get a proper box to put it all in.  This is just a
>> random 3mm LED out of an HP 37203A, so maybe that has something to do with
>> it?  I haven't looked at the specs.
>> >>
>> >> Bob
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> 
>> >>> From: Bob Camp 
>> >>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>> >>> 
>> >>> Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 12:12 PM
>> >>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Hi
>> >>>
>> >>> Circuit should be:
>> >>>
>> >>> 2N with emitter to ground, collector to LED, base to lock
>indicator
>> via the 4.7K resistor. The LED is hooked to +15 via another resistor.
>> >>>
>> >>> If you have ~ 10 ma in the LED then the base needs less than 0.1 ma to
>> do the job with a . A 4.7K should be plenty.
>> >>>
>> >>> Alternate circuit:
>> >>>
>> >>> 2N with base to lock indicator / no resistor at all, emit

Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator

[Bob Stewart]

I just did a quick inline test with the 3456A.  The resistor measured 
just over 1000 ohms, and it's dropping just over 2.5V before it locks.  
So, that's about 2.5ma current draw from the FE-5680A for about 90 
seconds or so.  I think we're just at the splitting hairs stage on this.  =)

Bob





>
> From: Al Wolfe 
>To: time-nuts@febo.com 
>Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 6:43 PM
>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
> 
>
>   I'm surprised no one suggested using two 2N's in Darlington. Then a 22K 
>or more from the base to the indicator pin would not load things down much. 
>Collector load then 1.2K to 2k in series with the LED.
>
>Al, K9SI
>
>
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>
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator

[Bob Stewart]

Hi Al,

This is just something quick and dirty.  At least it works and doesn't seem to 
be able to hurt anything.

Bob





>
> From: Al Wolfe 
>To: time-nuts@febo.com 
>Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 6:43 PM
>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
> 
>
>   I'm surprised no one suggested using two 2N's in Darlington. Then a 22K 
>or more from the base to the indicator pin would not load things down much. 
>Collector load then 1.2K to 2k in series with the LED.
>
>Al, K9SI
>
>
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>
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator

[Al Wolfe]

   I'm surprised no one suggested using two 2N's in Darlington. Then a 
22K or more from the base to the indicator pin would not load things down 
much. Collector load then 1.2K to 2k in series with the LED.


Al, K9SI


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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator

[Bob Stewart]

I hadn't thought of using a pullup resistor.  I'd have to get out the 
calculator to see if it's worth it, though.  It's only taking a load for a 
minute or two till it locks, so I don't think it's a problem.

Bob





>
> From: Chris Stake 
>To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' 
>; 'Bob Stewart'  
>Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 2:06 PM
>Subject: RE: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
> 
>
>I have a circuit that seems to work well:
>The lock indicator is a weak source but a good sink so it interfaces more
>naturally with a pnp or p-channel device. Pull it up to 5V with 100K and
>connect this point to the gate of a P channel Mosfet whose source is also
>connected to 5V. Connect the drain of the mosfet to a LED anode and take the
>LED cathode via 220 R to 0V.
>This way, the sense of the indicator is correct (0n = lock) and the drive
>capability of the lock signal works in your favour.
>
>Chris Stake  
>
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
>> Behalf Of Bob Camp
>> Sent: 22 September 2013 18:53
>> To: Bob Stewart; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> If you want 10 ma through the LED (which should be plenty) then the
>> collector resistor would be right around 1.2K
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>> On Sep 22, 2013, at 1:32 PM, Bob Stewart  wrote:
>> 
>> > D'oh, that should say "I could increase the COLLECTOR resistor to 1500
>> ohms".
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> 
>> >> From: Bob Stewart 
>> >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>> >> 
>> >> Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 12:27 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Except that it doesn't work with even 1500 ohms in the base lead.  The
>> LED immediately comes on and stays on.  I could increase the emitter
>> resistor to 1500 ohms and get around 8.5-9ma through the LED, but I'm done
>> playing with it until I get a proper box to put it all in.  This is just a
>> random 3mm LED out of an HP 37203A, so maybe that has something to do with
>> it?  I haven't looked at the specs.
>> >>
>> >> Bob
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> 
>> >>> From: Bob Camp 
>> >>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>> >>> 
>> >>> Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 12:12 PM
>> >>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Hi
>> >>>
>> >>> Circuit should be:
>> >>>
>> >>> 2N with emitter to ground, collector to LED, base to lock
>indicator
>> via the 4.7K resistor. The LED is hooked to +15 via another resistor.
>> >>>
>> >>> If you have ~ 10 ma in the LED then the base needs less than 0.1 ma to
>> do the job with a . A 4.7K should be plenty.
>> >>>
>> >>> Alternate circuit:
>> >>>
>> >>> 2N with base to lock indicator / no resistor at all, emitter to
>> ground via a 1K resistor, collector to LED. LED to +15 via a 1.5K
>resistor.
>> >>>
>> >>> Either one should work. Both turn on the LED when the output is high
>> and off when the output is low. In order to turn on when it's high you
>need
>> to get an inversion ahead of the 2N.
>> >>>
>> >>> Bob
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Sep 22, 2013, at 12:17 PM, Bob Stewart  wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Hi Bob,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I tried 4700 and even 1500, but they're too large.  I guess the
>little
>> flash of the LED at power-on is the hint that 1K is right at the ragged
>> edge.  It would probably make a big difference if there was a 100 or even
>> 47 ohm resistor between the emitter and the LED, but my little board is
>> starting to get burnt up, wires are starting to get frayed, and it does
>> work, so this cake is done.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Bob
>

Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator

[Chris Stake]

I have a circuit that seems to work well:
The lock indicator is a weak source but a good sink so it interfaces more
naturally with a pnp or p-channel device. Pull it up to 5V with 100K and
connect this point to the gate of a P channel Mosfet whose source is also
connected to 5V. Connect the drain of the mosfet to a LED anode and take the
LED cathode via 220 R to 0V.
This way, the sense of the indicator is correct (0n = lock) and the drive
capability of the lock signal works in your favour.

Chris Stake   


> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
> Behalf Of Bob Camp
> Sent: 22 September 2013 18:53
> To: Bob Stewart; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
> 
> Hi
> 
> If you want 10 ma through the LED (which should be plenty) then the
> collector resistor would be right around 1.2K
> 
> Bob
> 
> On Sep 22, 2013, at 1:32 PM, Bob Stewart  wrote:
> 
> > D'oh, that should say "I could increase the COLLECTOR resistor to 1500
> ohms".
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> 
> >> From: Bob Stewart 
> >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> >> 
> >> Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 12:27 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
> >>
> >>
> >> Except that it doesn't work with even 1500 ohms in the base lead.  The
> LED immediately comes on and stays on.  I could increase the emitter
> resistor to 1500 ohms and get around 8.5-9ma through the LED, but I'm done
> playing with it until I get a proper box to put it all in.  This is just a
> random 3mm LED out of an HP 37203A, so maybe that has something to do with
> it?  I haven't looked at the specs.
> >>
> >> Bob
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> 
> >>> From: Bob Camp 
> >>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> >>> 
> >>> Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 12:12 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Hi
> >>>
> >>> Circuit should be:
> >>>
> >>> 2N with emitter to ground, collector to LED, base to lock
indicator
> via the 4.7K resistor. The LED is hooked to +15 via another resistor.
> >>>
> >>> If you have ~ 10 ma in the LED then the base needs less than 0.1 ma to
> do the job with a . A 4.7K should be plenty.
> >>>
> >>> Alternate circuit:
> >>>
> >>> 2N with base to lock indicator / no resistor at all, emitter to
> ground via a 1K resistor, collector to LED. LED to +15 via a 1.5K
resistor.
> >>>
> >>> Either one should work. Both turn on the LED when the output is high
> and off when the output is low. In order to turn on when it's high you
need
> to get an inversion ahead of the 2N.
> >>>
> >>> Bob
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sep 22, 2013, at 12:17 PM, Bob Stewart  wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi Bob,
> >>>>
> >>>> I tried 4700 and even 1500, but they're too large.  I guess the
little
> flash of the LED at power-on is the hint that 1K is right at the ragged
> edge.  It would probably make a big difference if there was a 100 or even
> 47 ohm resistor between the emitter and the LED, but my little board is
> starting to get burnt up, wires are starting to get frayed, and it does
> work, so this cake is done.
> >>>>
> >>>> Bob
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> From: Bob Camp 
> >>>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 6:31 AM
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you trace out the chip that drives the lock indicator it's got
> some sort of strange gating in it's supply pin. That gets you even less
> output than you would expect from a CMOS gate. I would not count on it
> putting out more than 1 ma at 5 volts. A 4.7K resistor to the 2N base
> should be about right.
> >>>>>

Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator

[Bob Camp]

Hi

If you want 10 ma through the LED (which should be plenty) then the collector 
resistor would be right around 1.2K

Bob

On Sep 22, 2013, at 1:32 PM, Bob Stewart  wrote:

> D'oh, that should say "I could increase the COLLECTOR resistor to 1500 ohms".
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> From: Bob Stewart 
>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
>>  
>> Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 12:27 PM
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>> 
>> 
>> Except that it doesn't work with even 1500 ohms in the base lead.  The LED 
>> immediately comes on and stays on.  I could increase the emitter resistor to 
>> 1500 ohms and get around 8.5-9ma through the LED, but I'm done playing with 
>> it until I get a proper box to put it all in.  This is just a random 3mm LED 
>> out of an HP 37203A, so maybe that has something to do with it?  I haven't 
>> looked at the specs.
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> ________
>>> From: Bob Camp 
>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
>>>  
>>> Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 12:12 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi
>>> 
>>> Circuit should be:
>>> 
>>> 2N with emitter to ground, collector to LED, base to lock indicator via 
>>> the 4.7K resistor. The LED is hooked to +15 via another resistor. 
>>> 
>>> If you have ~ 10 ma in the LED then the base needs less than 0.1 ma to do 
>>> the job with a . A 4.7K should be plenty.
>>> 
>>> Alternate circuit:
>>> 
>>> 2N with base to lock indicator / no resistor at all, emitter to ground 
>>> via a 1K resistor, collector to LED. LED to +15 via a 1.5K resistor. 
>>> 
>>> Either one should work. Both turn on the LED when the output is high and 
>>> off when the output is low. In order to turn on when it's high you need to 
>>> get an inversion ahead of the 2N.
>>> 
>>> Bob
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sep 22, 2013, at 12:17 PM, Bob Stewart  wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi Bob,
>>>> 
>>>> I tried 4700 and even 1500, but they're too large.  I guess the little 
>>>> flash of the LED at power-on is the hint that 1K is right at the ragged 
>>>> edge.  It would probably make a big difference if there was a 100 or even 
>>>> 47 ohm resistor between the emitter and the LED, but my little board is 
>>>> starting to get burnt up, wires are starting to get frayed, and it does 
>>>> work, so this cake is done.
>>>> 
>>>> Bob
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: Bob Camp 
>>>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
>>>>>  
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 6:31 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you trace out the chip that drives the lock indicator it's got some 
>>>>> sort of strange gating in it's supply pin. That gets you even less output 
>>>>> than you would expect from a CMOS gate. I would not count on it putting 
>>>>> out more than 1 ma at 5 volts. A 4.7K resistor to the 2N base should 
>>>>> be about right.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bob
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 21, 2013, at 10:34 PM, Bob Stewart  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks for the heads-up, Bob.  I'll do it the next time the iron is hot. 
>>>>>>  Fortunately, it's only on for about a minute or so, then there's no 
>>>>>> drive from the FE-5680A.  Is 3ma really that big a deal?  I know squat 
>>>>>> about CMOS gates.  I guess it is pulling the voltage down by 25%, though.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> From: Robert LaJeunesse 
>>>>>>> To: Bob Stewart ; Discussion of precise time and 
>>>>>>> frequency measurement  
>>>>>&

Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator

[Bob Stewart]

D'oh, that should say "I could increase the COLLECTOR resistor to 1500 ohms".




>
> From: Bob Stewart 
>To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement  
>Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 12:27 PM
>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
> 
>
>Except that it doesn't work with even 1500 ohms in the base lead.  The LED 
>immediately comes on and stays on.  I could increase the emitter resistor to 
>1500 ohms and get around 8.5-9ma through the LED, but I'm done playing with it 
>until I get a proper box to put it all in.  This is just a random 3mm LED out 
>of an HP 37203A, so maybe that has something to do with it?  I haven't looked 
>at the specs.
>
>Bob
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> From: Bob Camp 
>>To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement  
>>Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 12:12 PM
>>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>> 
>>
>>Hi
>>
>>Circuit should be:
>>
>>2N with emitter to ground, collector to LED, base to lock indicator via 
>>the 4.7K resistor. The LED is hooked to +15 via another resistor. 
>>
>>If you have ~ 10 ma in the LED then the base needs less than 0.1 ma to do the 
>>job with a . A 4.7K should be plenty.
>>
>>Alternate circuit:
>>
>>2N with base to lock indicator / no resistor at all, emitter to ground 
>>via a 1K resistor, collector to LED. LED to +15 via a 1.5K resistor. 
>>
>>Either one should work. Both turn on the LED when the output is high and off 
>>when the output is low. In order to turn on when it's high you need to get an 
>>inversion ahead of the 2N.
>>
>>Bob
>>
>>
>>On Sep 22, 2013, at 12:17 PM, Bob Stewart  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Bob,
>>> 
>>> I tried 4700 and even 1500, but they're too large.  I guess the little 
>>> flash of the LED at power-on is the hint that 1K is right at the ragged 
>>> edge.  It would probably make a big difference if there was a 100 or even 
>>> 47 ohm resistor between the emitter and the LED, but my little board is 
>>> starting to get burnt up, wires are starting to get frayed, and it does 
>>> work, so this cake is done.
>>> 
>>> Bob
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> From: Bob Camp 
>>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
>>>>  
>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 6:31 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Hi
>>>> 
>>>> If you trace out the chip that drives the lock indicator it's got some 
>>>> sort of strange gating in it's supply pin. That gets you even less output 
>>>> than you would expect from a CMOS gate. I would not count on it putting 
>>>> out more than 1 ma at 5 volts. A 4.7K resistor to the 2N base should 
>>>> be about right.
>>>> 
>>>> Bob
>>>> 
>>>> On Sep 21, 2013, at 10:34 PM, Bob Stewart  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks for the heads-up, Bob.  I'll do it the next time the iron is hot.  
>>>>> Fortunately, it's only on for about a minute or so, then there's no drive 
>>>>> from the FE-5680A.  Is 3ma really that big a deal?  I know squat about 
>>>>> CMOS gates.  I guess it is pulling the voltage down by 25%, though.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bob
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: Robert LaJeunesse 
>>>>>> To: Bob Stewart ; Discussion of precise time and 
>>>>>> frequency measurement  
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 9:24 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bob,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I would bump that base resistor up a lot higher, to load the FE-5680 
>>>>>> less. The PN has enough gain it only needs about 0.3 mA base drive 
>>>>>> to work as intended. You'd get that with a 10K base resistor.  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bob LaJeunesse
>>>

Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator

[Bob Stewart]

Except that it doesn't work with even 1500 ohms in the base lead.  The LED 
immediately comes on and stays on.  I could increase the emitter resistor to 
1500 ohms and get around 8.5-9ma through the LED, but I'm done playing with it 
until I get a proper box to put it all in.  This is just a random 3mm LED out 
of an HP 37203A, so maybe that has something to do with it?  I haven't looked 
at the specs.

Bob





>
> From: Bob Camp 
>To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement  
>Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 12:12 PM
>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
> 
>
>Hi
>
>Circuit should be:
>
>2N with emitter to ground, collector to LED, base to lock indicator via 
>the 4.7K resistor. The LED is hooked to +15 via another resistor. 
>
>If you have ~ 10 ma in the LED then the base needs less than 0.1 ma to do the 
>job with a . A 4.7K should be plenty.
>
>Alternate circuit:
>
>2N with base to lock indicator / no resistor at all, emitter to ground via 
>a 1K resistor, collector to LED. LED to +15 via a 1.5K resistor. 
>
>Either one should work. Both turn on the LED when the output is high and off 
>when the output is low. In order to turn on when it's high you need to get an 
>inversion ahead of the 2N.
>
>Bob
>
>
>On Sep 22, 2013, at 12:17 PM, Bob Stewart  wrote:
>
>> Hi Bob,
>> 
>> I tried 4700 and even 1500, but they're too large.  I guess the little flash 
>> of the LED at power-on is the hint that 1K is right at the ragged edge.  It 
>> would probably make a big difference if there was a 100 or even 47 ohm 
>> resistor between the emitter and the LED, but my little board is starting to 
>> get burnt up, wires are starting to get frayed, and it does work, so this 
>> cake is done.
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Bob Camp 
>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
>>>  
>>> Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 6:31 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi
>>> 
>>> If you trace out the chip that drives the lock indicator it's got some sort 
>>> of strange gating in it's supply pin. That gets you even less output than 
>>> you would expect from a CMOS gate. I would not count on it putting out more 
>>> than 1 ma at 5 volts. A 4.7K resistor to the 2N base should be about 
>>> right.
>>> 
>>> Bob
>>> 
>>> On Sep 21, 2013, at 10:34 PM, Bob Stewart  wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Thanks for the heads-up, Bob.  I'll do it the next time the iron is hot.  
>>>> Fortunately, it's only on for about a minute or so, then there's no drive 
>>>> from the FE-5680A.  Is 3ma really that big a deal?  I know squat about 
>>>> CMOS gates.  I guess it is pulling the voltage down by 25%, though.
>>>> 
>>>> Bob
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: Robert LaJeunesse 
>>>>> To: Bob Stewart ; Discussion of precise time and 
>>>>> frequency measurement  
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 9:24 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bob,
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I would bump that base resistor up a lot higher, to load the FE-5680 
>>>>> less. The PN has enough gain it only needs about 0.3 mA base drive to 
>>>>> work as intended. You'd get that with a 10K base resistor.  
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bob LaJeunesse
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: Bob Stewart 
>>>>>> To: Time Nuts  
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 10:02 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi John,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks for the response.  I managed to cobble something up with 
>>>>>> LTSpiceIV, and get it to work.  And for me, that's saying
>>>> something!    Here's what I wound up with: 
>>>> "http://www.evoria.net

Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator

[Bob Camp]

Hi

Circuit should be:

2N with emitter to ground, collector to LED, base to lock indicator via the 
4.7K resistor. The LED is hooked to +15 via another resistor. 

If you have ~ 10 ma in the LED then the base needs less than 0.1 ma to do the 
job with a . A 4.7K should be plenty.

Alternate circuit:

2N with base to lock indicator / no resistor at all, emitter to ground via 
a 1K resistor, collector to LED. LED to +15 via a 1.5K resistor. 

Either one should work. Both turn on the LED when the output is high and off 
when the output is low. In order to turn on when it's high you need to get an 
inversion ahead of the 2N.

Bob


On Sep 22, 2013, at 12:17 PM, Bob Stewart  wrote:

> Hi Bob,
> 
> I tried 4700 and even 1500, but they're too large.  I guess the little flash 
> of the LED at power-on is the hint that 1K is right at the ragged edge.  It 
> would probably make a big difference if there was a 100 or even 47 ohm 
> resistor between the emitter and the LED, but my little board is starting to 
> get burnt up, wires are starting to get frayed, and it does work, so this 
> cake is done.
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> From: Bob Camp 
>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
>>  
>> Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 6:31 AM
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>> 
>> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> If you trace out the chip that drives the lock indicator it's got some sort 
>> of strange gating in it's supply pin. That gets you even less output than 
>> you would expect from a CMOS gate. I would not count on it putting out more 
>> than 1 ma at 5 volts. A 4.7K resistor to the 2N base should be about 
>> right.
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>> On Sep 21, 2013, at 10:34 PM, Bob Stewart  wrote:
>> 
>>> Thanks for the heads-up, Bob.  I'll do it the next time the iron is hot.  
>>> Fortunately, it's only on for about a minute or so, then there's no drive 
>>> from the FE-5680A.  Is 3ma really that big a deal?  I know squat about CMOS 
>>> gates.  I guess it is pulling the voltage down by 25%, though.
>>> 
>>> Bob
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> From: Robert LaJeunesse 
>>>> To: Bob Stewart ; Discussion of precise time and 
>>>> frequency measurement  
>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 9:24 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Bob,
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I would bump that base resistor up a lot higher, to load the FE-5680 less. 
>>>> The PN has enough gain it only needs about 0.3 mA base drive to work 
>>>> as intended. You'd get that with a 10K base resistor.  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Bob LaJeunesse
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: Bob Stewart 
>>>>> To: Time Nuts  
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 10:02 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi John,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks for the response.  I managed to cobble something up with 
>>>>> LTSpiceIV, and get it to work.  And for me, that's saying
>>> something!Here's what I wound up with: 
>>> "http://www.evoria.net/AE6RV/GPSstd_PLL/LED-driver.png";, where V2 is the 
>>> Loop Lock Indicator.  The PN shorts out the LED until it goes into 
>>> lock, then the LED comes on.  It does give a short pulse when power is 
>>> first applied and things are equalizing.  Even with a 1K resistor, the 4.2V 
>>> from Lock signal is pulled down to 3V.
>>>>> 
>>>>> And here's a pic of my Rb standard on it's temporary home with the LED on 
>>>>> a scrap of breadboard:
>>>>> "http://www.evoria.net/AE6RV/GPSstd_PLL/Rb.standard.png";.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bob
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: jmfranke 
>>>>>> To: Bob Stewart ; Discussion of precise time and 
>>>>>> frequency measurement  
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 6:58 PM
>>>>>&g

Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator

[Bob Stewart]

Hi Bob,

I tried 4700 and even 1500, but they're too large.  I guess the little flash of 
the LED at power-on is the hint that 1K is right at the ragged edge.  It would 
probably make a big difference if there was a 100 or even 47 ohm resistor 
between the emitter and the LED, but my little board is starting to get burnt 
up, wires are starting to get frayed, and it does work, so this cake is done.

Bob





>
> From: Bob Camp 
>To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement  
>Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 6:31 AM
>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
> 
>
>Hi
>
>If you trace out the chip that drives the lock indicator it's got some sort of 
>strange gating in it's supply pin. That gets you even less output than you 
>would expect from a CMOS gate. I would not count on it putting out more than 1 
>ma at 5 volts. A 4.7K resistor to the 2N base should be about right.
>
>Bob
>
>On Sep 21, 2013, at 10:34 PM, Bob Stewart  wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the heads-up, Bob.  I'll do it the next time the iron is hot.  
>> Fortunately, it's only on for about a minute or so, then there's no drive 
>> from the FE-5680A.  Is 3ma really that big a deal?  I know squat about CMOS 
>> gates.  I guess it is pulling the voltage down by 25%, though.
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Robert LaJeunesse 
>>> To: Bob Stewart ; Discussion of precise time and frequency 
>>> measurement  
>>> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 9:24 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Bob,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I would bump that base resistor up a lot higher, to load the FE-5680 less. 
>>> The PN has enough gain it only needs about 0.3 mA base drive to work as 
>>> intended. You'd get that with a 10K base resistor.  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Bob LaJeunesse
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> From: Bob Stewart 
>>>> To: Time Nuts  
>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 10:02 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Hi John,
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks for the response.  I managed to cobble something up with LTSpiceIV, 
>>>> and get it to work.  And for me, that's saying
>> something!    Here's what I wound up with: 
>> "http://www.evoria.net/AE6RV/GPSstd_PLL/LED-driver.png";, where V2 is the 
>> Loop Lock Indicator.  The PN shorts out the LED until it goes into lock, 
>> then the LED comes on.  It does give a short pulse when power is first 
>> applied and things are equalizing.  Even with a 1K resistor, the 4.2V from 
>> Lock signal is pulled down to 3V.
>>>> 
>>>> And here's a pic of my Rb standard on it's temporary home with the LED on 
>>>> a scrap of breadboard:
>>>> "http://www.evoria.net/AE6RV/GPSstd_PLL/Rb.standard.png";.
>>>> 
>>>> Bob
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: jmfranke 
>>>>> To: Bob Stewart ; Discussion of precise time and 
>>>>> frequency measurement  
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 6:58 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yes, but put an isolation resistor between the output and the base of the
>>>>> transistor, something between 3K and 5K should work. The LED will light 
>>>>> upon
>>>>> power on and extinguish when lock is achieved.
>>>>> 
>>>>> John  WA4WDL
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> From: "Bob Stewart" 
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 6:10 PM
>>>>> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Bob,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I hooked the big voltmeter up to it, and it shows +4.2V out for about a 
>>>>>> minute, and then goes to 0. Looking on the web, it seems like I can use 
>>>>

Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator

[Bob Camp]

Hi

If you trace out the chip that drives the lock indicator it's got some sort of 
strange gating in it's supply pin. That gets you even less output than you 
would expect from a CMOS gate. I would not count on it putting out more than 1 
ma at 5 volts. A 4.7K resistor to the 2N base should be about right.

Bob

On Sep 21, 2013, at 10:34 PM, Bob Stewart  wrote:

> Thanks for the heads-up, Bob.  I'll do it the next time the iron is hot.  
> Fortunately, it's only on for about a minute or so, then there's no drive 
> from the FE-5680A.  Is 3ma really that big a deal?  I know squat about CMOS 
> gates.  I guess it is pulling the voltage down by 25%, though.
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> From: Robert LaJeunesse 
>> To: Bob Stewart ; Discussion of precise time and frequency 
>> measurement  
>> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 9:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Bob,
>> 
>> 
>> I would bump that base resistor up a lot higher, to load the FE-5680 less. 
>> The PN has enough gain it only needs about 0.3 mA base drive to work as 
>> intended. You'd get that with a 10K base resistor.   
>> 
>> 
>> Bob LaJeunesse
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Bob Stewart 
>>> To: Time Nuts  
>>> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 10:02 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi John,
>>> 
>>> Thanks for the response.  I managed to cobble something up with LTSpiceIV, 
>>> and get it to work.  And for me, that's saying
> something!Here's what I wound up with: 
> "http://www.evoria.net/AE6RV/GPSstd_PLL/LED-driver.png";, where V2 is the Loop 
> Lock Indicator.  The PN shorts out the LED until it goes into lock, then 
> the LED comes on.  It does give a short pulse when power is first applied and 
> things are equalizing.  Even with a 1K resistor, the 4.2V from Lock signal is 
> pulled down to 3V.
>>> 
>>> And here's a pic of my Rb standard on it's temporary home with the LED on a 
>>> scrap of breadboard:
>>> "http://www.evoria.net/AE6RV/GPSstd_PLL/Rb.standard.png";.
>>> 
>>> Bob
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> From: jmfranke 
>>>> To: Bob Stewart ; Discussion of precise time and 
>>>> frequency measurement  
>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 6:58 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Yes, but put an isolation resistor between the output and the base of the
>>>> transistor, something between 3K and 5K should work. The LED will light 
>>>> upon
>>>> power on and extinguish when lock is achieved.
>>>> 
>>>> John  WA4WDL
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> From: "Bob Stewart" 
>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 6:10 PM
>>>> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 
>>>> 
>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Bob,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I hooked the big voltmeter up to it, and it shows +4.2V out for about a 
>>>>> minute, and then goes to 0. Looking on the web, it seems like I can use 
>>>>> that to drive a 2N and put the LED and dropping resistor in the 
>>>>> collector path with the emitter to ground? Does that sound right?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bob
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: Bob Camp 
>>>>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, September
> 21, 2013 4:12 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Those readings sound a lot more like a CMOS gate output than some sort 
>>>>>> of open drain / open collector discrete driver.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>> 

Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator

[Hal Murray]

b...@evoria.net said:
> Is 3ma really that big a deal?  I know squat about CMOS gates.  I guess it
> is pulling the voltage down by 25%, though. 

There should be something in the data sheet.  1/2 :)

If you trace the signal back the next time you have it open, you might be 
able to figure out which data sheet to go looking for.

For things like 5V CMOS signals, HC is a reasonable guess.  If you look at 
the data sheet for a typical HC chip, it will specify Voh at a load current 
of 20 uA and 4 mA.  That at least tells you that a 4 mA load is sensible.

I'd probably use 10K because my junk box has lots of 1K and 10K, and 1K seems 
too small.

10K at 5V is 1/2 mA max or 1/4 mA if the output droops and we deduct some 
more for Vbe.  How bright do you want your LED to be?  (How much current?)  
Scan the data sheet and look for minimum Beta...

Plan B:
  Insert a PIC/AVR/whatever-you-like.  It can turn on a green LED for OK, and 
blink a red LED for non-locked.  And the data sheet will tell you how much 
current you can drive.



-- 
These are my opinions.  I hate spam.



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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator

[Bob Stewart]

Thanks for the heads-up, Bob.  I'll do it the next time the iron is hot.  
Fortunately, it's only on for about a minute or so, then there's no drive from 
the FE-5680A.  Is 3ma really that big a deal?  I know squat about CMOS gates.  
I guess it is pulling the voltage down by 25%, though.

Bob





>
> From: Robert LaJeunesse 
>To: Bob Stewart ; Discussion of precise time and frequency 
>measurement  
>Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 9:24 PM
>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
> 
>
>
>Bob,
>
>
>I would bump that base resistor up a lot higher, to load the FE-5680 less. The 
>PN has enough gain it only needs about 0.3 mA base drive to work as 
>intended. You'd get that with a 10K base resistor.   
>
>
>Bob LaJeunesse
>
>
>
>>
>> From: Bob Stewart 
>>To: Time Nuts  
>>Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 10:02 PM
>>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>> 
>>
>>Hi John,
>>
>>Thanks for the response.  I managed to cobble something up with LTSpiceIV, 
>>and get it to work.  And for me, that's saying
 something!    Here's what I wound up with: 
"http://www.evoria.net/AE6RV/GPSstd_PLL/LED-driver.png";, where V2 is the Loop 
Lock Indicator.  The PN shorts out the LED until it goes into lock, then 
the LED comes on.  It does give a short pulse when power is first applied and 
things are equalizing.  Even with a 1K resistor, the 4.2V from Lock signal is 
pulled down to 3V.
>>
>>And here's a pic of my Rb standard on it's temporary home with the LED on a 
>>scrap of breadboard:
>>"http://www.evoria.net/AE6RV/GPSstd_PLL/Rb.standard.png";.
>>
>>Bob
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> From: jmfranke 
>>>To: Bob Stewart ; Discussion of precise time and frequency 
>>>measurement  
>>>Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 6:58 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>>> 
>>>
>>>Yes, but put an isolation resistor between the output and the base of the
>>>transistor, something between 3K and 5K should work. The LED will light upon
>>>power on and extinguish when lock is achieved.
>>>
>>>John  WA4WDL
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>From: "Bob Stewart" 
>>>Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 6:10 PM
>>>To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 
>>>
>>>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>>>
>>>> Hi Bob,
>>>> 
>>>> I hooked the big voltmeter up to it, and it shows +4.2V out for about a 
>>>> minute, and then goes to 0. Looking on the web, it seems like I can use 
>>>> that to drive a 2N and put the LED and dropping resistor in the 
>>>> collector path with the emitter to ground? Does that sound right?
>>>> 
>>>> Bob
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: Bob Camp 
>>>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, September
 21, 2013 4:12 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi
>>>>> 
>>>>> Those readings sound a lot more like a CMOS gate output than some sort of 
>>>>> open drain / open collector discrete driver.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bob
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 21, 2013, at 4:43 PM, Bob Stewart  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Bob,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It's rather curious. Using my handheld DVM in the diode scale, I get a 
>>>>>> reading of 448 in one direction and 458 in the other with it off and 
>>>>>> cold. In the 2K ohms scale, I get 561 and 562 ohms. Later on, I'll pop 
>>>>>> the top off again and take a pic so I can expand it and look at it. For 
>>>>>> what it's worth, my DDS board is 2 revisions earlier than the one 
>>>>>> Matthias Bopp
 modifies here 
"http://www.dd1us.de/Downloads/precise%20reference%20frequency%20rev%201_0.pdf";
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>

Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator

[Robert LaJeunesse]

Bob,

I would bump that base resistor up a lot higher, to load the FE-5680 less. The 
PN has enough gain it only needs about 0.3 mA base drive to work as 
intended. You'd get that with a 10K base resistor.   

Bob LaJeunesse



>
> From: Bob Stewart 
>To: Time Nuts  
>Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 10:02 PM
>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
> 
>
>Hi John,
>
>Thanks for the response.  I managed to cobble something up with LTSpiceIV, and 
>get it to work.  And for me, that's saying something!    Here's what I wound 
>up with: "http://www.evoria.net/AE6RV/GPSstd_PLL/LED-driver.png";, where V2 is 
>the Loop Lock Indicator.  The PN shorts out the LED until it goes into 
>lock, then the LED comes on.  It does give a short pulse when power is first 
>applied and things are equalizing.  Even with a 1K resistor, the 4.2V from 
>Lock signal is pulled down to 3V.
>
>And here's a pic of my Rb standard on it's temporary home with the LED on a 
>scrap of breadboard:
>"http://www.evoria.net/AE6RV/GPSstd_PLL/Rb.standard.png";.
>
>Bob
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> From: jmfranke 
>>To: Bob Stewart ; Discussion of precise time and frequency 
>>measurement  
>>Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 6:58 PM
>>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>> 
>>
>>Yes, but put an isolation resistor between the output and the base of the
>>transistor, something between 3K and 5K should work. The LED will light upon
>>power on and extinguish when lock is achieved.
>>
>>John  WA4WDL
>>
>>
>>--
>>From: "Bob Stewart" 
>>Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 6:10 PM
>>To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 
>>
>>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>>
>>> Hi Bob,
>>> 
>>> I hooked the big voltmeter up to it, and it shows +4.2V out for about a 
>>> minute, and then goes to 0. Looking on the web, it seems like I can use 
>>> that to drive a 2N and put the LED and dropping resistor in the 
>>> collector path with the emitter to ground? Does that sound right?
>>> 
>>> Bob
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> From: Bob Camp 
>>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 4:12 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Hi
>>>> 
>>>> Those readings sound a lot more like a CMOS gate output than some sort of 
>>>> open drain / open collector discrete driver.
>>>> 
>>>> Bob
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Sep 21, 2013, at 4:43 PM, Bob Stewart  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Bob,
>>>>> 
>>>>> It's rather curious. Using my handheld DVM in the diode scale, I get a 
>>>>> reading of 448 in one direction and 458 in the other with it off and 
>>>>> cold. In the 2K ohms scale, I get 561 and 562 ohms. Later on, I'll pop 
>>>>> the top off again and take a pic so I can expand it and look at it. For 
>>>>> what it's worth, my DDS board is 2 revisions earlier than the one 
>>>>> Matthias Bopp modifies here 
>>>>> "http://www.dd1us.de/Downloads/precise%20reference%20frequency%20rev%201_0.pdf";
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bob
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: Bob Camp 
>>>>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 3:00 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> As far as I know the lock output is a CMOS output that will drive a 
>>>>>> couple of ma. There are so many variations that yours may indeed be an 
>>>>>> open collector and good to +15 volts.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sep 21, 2013, at 10:55 AM, Bob Stewart  wrote:
>>>&g

Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator

[Bob Stewart]

Hi John,

Thanks for the response.  I managed to cobble something up with LTSpiceIV, and 
get it to work.  And for me, that's saying something!    Here's what I wound up 
with: "http://www.evoria.net/AE6RV/GPSstd_PLL/LED-driver.png";, where V2 is the 
Loop Lock Indicator.  The PN shorts out the LED until it goes into lock, 
then the LED comes on.  It does give a short pulse when power is first applied 
and things are equalizing.  Even with a 1K resistor, the 4.2V from Lock signal 
is pulled down to 3V.

And here's a pic of my Rb standard on it's temporary home with the LED on a 
scrap of breadboard:
"http://www.evoria.net/AE6RV/GPSstd_PLL/Rb.standard.png";.

Bob





>
> From: jmfranke 
>To: Bob Stewart ; Discussion of precise time and frequency 
>measurement  
>Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 6:58 PM
>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
> 
>
>Yes, but put an isolation resistor between the output and the base of the
>transistor, something between 3K and 5K should work. The LED will light upon
>power on and extinguish when lock is achieved.
>
>John  WA4WDL
>
>
>--
>From: "Bob Stewart" 
>Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 6:10 PM
>To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 
>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>
>> Hi Bob,
>> 
>> I hooked the big voltmeter up to it, and it shows +4.2V out for about a 
>> minute, and then goes to 0. Looking on the web, it seems like I can use that 
>> to drive a 2N and put the LED and dropping resistor in the collector 
>> path with the emitter to ground? Does that sound right?
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Bob Camp 
>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
>>> 
>>> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 4:12 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi
>>> 
>>> Those readings sound a lot more like a CMOS gate output than some sort of 
>>> open drain / open collector discrete driver.
>>> 
>>> Bob
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sep 21, 2013, at 4:43 PM, Bob Stewart  wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi Bob,
>>>> 
>>>> It's rather curious. Using my handheld DVM in the diode scale, I get a 
>>>> reading of 448 in one direction and 458 in the other with it off and cold. 
>>>> In the 2K ohms scale, I get 561 and 562 ohms. Later on, I'll pop the top 
>>>> off again and take a pic so I can expand it and look at it. For what it's 
>>>> worth, my DDS board is 2 revisions earlier than the one Matthias Bopp 
>>>> modifies here 
>>>> "http://www.dd1us.de/Downloads/precise%20reference%20frequency%20rev%201_0.pdf";
>>>> 
>>>> Bob
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: Bob Camp 
>>>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 3:00 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi
>>>>> 
>>>>> As far as I know the lock output is a CMOS output that will drive a 
>>>>> couple of ma. There are so many variations that yours may indeed be an 
>>>>> open collector and good to +15 volts.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bob
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 21, 2013, at 10:55 AM, Bob Stewart  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> The instructions I got with this Rb said that you could hook an LED 
>>>>>> through a 5-10K resistor to the +15 supply and get a lock indication. 
>>>>>> I'm using a 10K resistor and the LED lights as soon as it's powered up 
>>>>>> from cold. Is the loop lock indicator circuit broken or is it just 
>>>>>> another strange option for these things? I saw on one site that if you 
>>>>>> do it this way it prevents lock, but mine seems to lock OK with or 
>>>>>> without the voltage.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bob - AE6RV
>>>>>> ___
>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com

Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator

[jmfranke]

Yes, but put an isolation resistor between the output and the base of the
transistor, something between 3K and 5K should work. The LED will light upon
power on and extinguish when lock is achieved.

John  WA4WDL


--
From: "Bob Stewart" 
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 6:10 PM
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 


Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator


Hi Bob,

I hooked the big voltmeter up to it, and it shows +4.2V out for about a 
minute, and then goes to 0. Looking on the web, it seems like I can use 
that to drive a 2N and put the LED and dropping resistor in the 
collector path with the emitter to ground? Does that sound right?


Bob







From: Bob Camp 
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 


Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator


Hi

Those readings sound a lot more like a CMOS gate output than some sort of 
open drain / open collector discrete driver.


Bob


On Sep 21, 2013, at 4:43 PM, Bob Stewart  wrote:


Hi Bob,

It's rather curious. Using my handheld DVM in the diode scale, I get a 
reading of 448 in one direction and 458 in the other with it off and 
cold. In the 2K ohms scale, I get 561 and 562 ohms. Later on, I'll pop 
the top off again and take a pic so I can expand it and look at it. For 
what it's worth, my DDS board is 2 revisions earlier than the one 
Matthias Bopp modifies here 
"http://www.dd1us.de/Downloads/precise%20reference%20frequency%20rev%201_0.pdf";


Bob







From: Bob Camp 
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 


Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator


Hi

As far as I know the lock output is a CMOS output that will drive a 
couple of ma. There are so many variations that yours may indeed be an 
open collector and good to +15 volts.


Bob

On Sep 21, 2013, at 10:55 AM, Bob Stewart  wrote:

The instructions I got with this Rb said that you could hook an LED 
through a 5-10K resistor to the +15 supply and get a lock indication. 
I'm using a 10K resistor and the LED lights as soon as it's powered up 
from cold. Is the loop lock indicator circuit broken or is it just 
another strange option for these things? I saw on one site that if you 
do it this way it prevents lock, but mine seems to lock OK with or 
without the voltage.



Bob - AE6RV
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator

[Bob Stewart]

Hi Bob,

I hooked the big voltmeter up to it, and it shows +4.2V out for about a minute, 
and then goes to 0.  Looking on the web, it seems like I can use that to drive 
a 2N and put the LED and dropping resistor in the collector path with the 
emitter to ground?  Does that sound right?

Bob





>
> From: Bob Camp 
>To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement  
>Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 4:12 PM
>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
> 
>
>Hi
>
>Those readings sound a lot more like a CMOS gate output than some sort of open 
>drain / open collector discrete driver. 
>
>Bob
>
>
>On Sep 21, 2013, at 4:43 PM, Bob Stewart  wrote:
>
>> Hi Bob,
>> 
>> It's rather curious.  Using my handheld DVM in the diode scale, I get a 
>> reading of 448 in one direction and 458 in the other with it off and cold.  
>> In the 2K ohms scale, I get 561 and 562 ohms.  Later on, I'll pop the top 
>> off again and take a pic so I can expand it and look at it.  For what it's 
>> worth, my DDS board is 2 revisions earlier than the one Matthias Bopp 
>> modifies here 
>> "http://www.dd1us.de/Downloads/precise%20reference%20frequency%20rev%201_0.pdf";
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> ________
>>> From: Bob Camp 
>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
>>>  
>>> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 3:00 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi
>>> 
>>> As far as I know the lock output is a CMOS output that will drive a couple 
>>> of ma. There are so many variations that yours may indeed be an open 
>>> collector and good to +15 volts.
>>> 
>>> Bob
>>> 
>>> On Sep 21, 2013, at 10:55 AM, Bob Stewart  wrote:
>>> 
>>>> The instructions I got with this Rb said that you could hook an LED 
>>>> through a 5-10K resistor to the +15 supply and get a lock indication.  I'm 
>>>> using a 10K resistor and the LED lights as soon as it's powered up from 
>>>> cold.  Is the loop lock indicator circuit broken or is it just another 
>>>> strange option for these things?  I saw on one site that if you do it this 
>>>> way it prevents lock, but mine seems to lock OK with or without the 
>>>> voltage.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Bob - AE6RV
>>>> ___
>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>>> To unsubscribe, go to 
>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to 
>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> ___
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>> and follow the instructions there.
>
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>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator

[Bob Camp]

Hi

Those readings sound a lot more like a CMOS gate output than some sort of open 
drain / open collector discrete driver. 

Bob


On Sep 21, 2013, at 4:43 PM, Bob Stewart  wrote:

> Hi Bob,
> 
> It's rather curious.  Using my handheld DVM in the diode scale, I get a 
> reading of 448 in one direction and 458 in the other with it off and cold.  
> In the 2K ohms scale, I get 561 and 562 ohms.  Later on, I'll pop the top off 
> again and take a pic so I can expand it and look at it.  For what it's worth, 
> my DDS board is 2 revisions earlier than the one Matthias Bopp modifies here 
> "http://www.dd1us.de/Downloads/precise%20reference%20frequency%20rev%201_0.pdf";
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> From: Bob Camp 
>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
>>  
>> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 3:00 PM
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>> 
>> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> As far as I know the lock output is a CMOS output that will drive a couple 
>> of ma. There are so many variations that yours may indeed be an open 
>> collector and good to +15 volts.
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>> On Sep 21, 2013, at 10:55 AM, Bob Stewart  wrote:
>> 
>>> The instructions I got with this Rb said that you could hook an LED through 
>>> a 5-10K resistor to the +15 supply and get a lock indication.  I'm using a 
>>> 10K resistor and the LED lights as soon as it's powered up from cold.  Is 
>>> the loop lock indicator circuit broken or is it just another strange option 
>>> for these things?  I saw on one site that if you do it this way it prevents 
>>> lock, but mine seems to lock OK with or without the voltage.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Bob - AE6RV
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to 
>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
>> 
>> 
> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator

[Bob Stewart]

Hi Bob,

It's rather curious.  Using my handheld DVM in the diode scale, I get a reading 
of 448 in one direction and 458 in the other with it off and cold.  In the 2K 
ohms scale, I get 561 and 562 ohms.  Later on, I'll pop the top off again and 
take a pic so I can expand it and look at it.  For what it's worth, my DDS 
board is 2 revisions earlier than the one Matthias Bopp modifies here 
"http://www.dd1us.de/Downloads/precise%20reference%20frequency%20rev%201_0.pdf";

Bob





>
> From: Bob Camp 
>To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement  
>Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 3:00 PM
>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
> 
>
>Hi
>
>As far as I know the lock output is a CMOS output that will drive a couple of 
>ma. There are so many variations that yours may indeed be an open collector 
>and good to +15 volts.
>
>Bob
>
>On Sep 21, 2013, at 10:55 AM, Bob Stewart  wrote:
>
>> The instructions I got with this Rb said that you could hook an LED through 
>> a 5-10K resistor to the +15 supply and get a lock indication.  I'm using a 
>> 10K resistor and the LED lights as soon as it's powered up from cold.  Is 
>> the loop lock indicator circuit broken or is it just another strange option 
>> for these things?  I saw on one site that if you do it this way it prevents 
>> lock, but mine seems to lock OK with or without the voltage.
>> 
>> 
>> Bob - AE6RV
>> ___
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>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>
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>
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator

[Bob Camp]

Hi

As far as I know the lock output is a CMOS output that will drive a couple of 
ma. There are so many variations that yours may indeed be an open collector and 
good to +15 volts.

Bob

On Sep 21, 2013, at 10:55 AM, Bob Stewart  wrote:

> The instructions I got with this Rb said that you could hook an LED through a 
> 5-10K resistor to the +15 supply and get a lock indication.  I'm using a 10K 
> resistor and the LED lights as soon as it's powered up from cold.  Is the 
> loop lock indicator circuit broken or is it just another strange option for 
> these things?  I saw on one site that if you do it this way it prevents lock, 
> but mine seems to lock OK with or without the voltage.
> 
> 
> Bob - AE6RV
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator

[Mark C. Stephens]

There is a problem introduced if you sink too much current off the lock pin.
An LED draws enough current to cause the issue, I think to do with not going 
into lock or PPS output.
If I could just remember what the issue is...

Anyway, this guy has it nailed:  
http://www.ka7oei.com/10_MHz_Rubidium_FE-5680A.html

Except, the ones that I have that need a +5V supply are programmable. Go 
figure..


--marki


-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf 
Of Azelio Boriani
Sent: Sunday, 22 September 2013 1:25 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator

If the lock output comes from the micro or a logic port with a maximum output 
of 3.3 or 5V, a LED connected to it from +15 will be always ON.

On Sat, Sep 21, 2013 at 4:55 PM, Bob Stewart  wrote:
> The instructions I got with this Rb said that you could hook an LED through a 
> 5-10K resistor to the +15 supply and get a lock indication.  I'm using a 10K 
> resistor and the LED lights as soon as it's powered up from cold.  Is the 
> loop lock indicator circuit broken or is it just another strange option for 
> these things?  I saw on one site that if you do it this way it prevents lock, 
> but mine seems to lock OK with or without the voltage.
>
>
> Bob - AE6RV
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to 
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator

[Azelio Boriani]

If the lock output comes from the micro or a logic port with a maximum
output of 3.3 or 5V, a LED connected to it from +15 will be always ON.

On Sat, Sep 21, 2013 at 4:55 PM, Bob Stewart  wrote:
> The instructions I got with this Rb said that you could hook an LED through a 
> 5-10K resistor to the +15 supply and get a lock indication.  I'm using a 10K 
> resistor and the LED lights as soon as it's powered up from cold.  Is the 
> loop lock indicator circuit broken or is it just another strange option for 
> these things?  I saw on one site that if you do it this way it prevents lock, 
> but mine seems to lock OK with or without the voltage.
>
>
> Bob - AE6RV
> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator

[Bob Stewart]

Hi John,

Thanks for the response.  I don't think my unit is the same as that one.  The 
instructions I got did not mention any +5V.  Also, this is not a 10MHz unit, it 
is only a timing unit.  The internal frequency is 8.38860798/9 (last digit 
jitter) MHz.

Bob





>
> From: jmfranke 
>To: Bob Stewart ; Discussion of precise time and frequency 
>measurement  
>Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 10:45 AM
>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
> 
>
>Are you applying +5V to pin as well? See:
>
>http://www.ko4bb.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=precision_timing:fe5680a_faq
>
>        "Within 5 minutes after powering up (apply +15V on DB9 pin 1 and +5V 
>on pin 4) the unit should indicate lock (pin 3 voltage drops low)."
>
>John WA4WDL
>
>--
>From: "Bob Stewart" 
>Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 10:55 AM
>To: "Bob Stewart" ; "Discussion of precise time and frequency 
>measurement" 
>Subject: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator
>
>> The instructions I got with this Rb said that you could hook an LED through 
>> a 5-10K resistor to the +15 supply and get a lock indication. I'm using a 
>> 10K resistor and the LED lights as soon as it's powered up from cold. Is the 
>> loop lock indicator circuit broken or is it just another strange option for 
>> these things? I saw on one site that if you do it this way it prevents lock, 
>> but mine seems to lock OK with or without the voltage.
>> 
>> 
>> Bob - AE6RV
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
>
>
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator

[jmfranke]

Are you applying +5V to pin as well? See:

http://www.ko4bb.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=precision_timing:fe5680a_faq

"Within 5 minutes after powering up (apply +15V on DB9 pin 1 and 
+5V on pin 4) the unit should indicate lock (pin 3 voltage drops low)."


John WA4WDL

--
From: "Bob Stewart" 
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 10:55 AM
To: "Bob Stewart" ; "Discussion of precise time and 
frequency measurement" 

Subject: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator

The instructions I got with this Rb said that you could hook an LED 
through a 5-10K resistor to the +15 supply and get a lock indication. I'm 
using a 10K resistor and the LED lights as soon as it's powered up from 
cold. Is the loop lock indicator circuit broken or is it just another 
strange option for these things? I saw on one site that if you do it this 
way it prevents lock, but mine seems to lock OK with or without the 
voltage.



Bob - AE6RV
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[time-nuts] FE-5680A Loop Lock Indicator

[Bob Stewart]

The instructions I got with this Rb said that you could hook an LED through a 
5-10K resistor to the +15 supply and get a lock indication.  I'm using a 10K 
resistor and the LED lights as soon as it's powered up from cold.  Is the loop 
lock indicator circuit broken or is it just another strange option for these 
things?  I saw on one site that if you do it this way it prevents lock, but 
mine seems to lock OK with or without the voltage.


Bob - AE6RV
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Voltage?

[Bob Camp]

Hi

The issue is the efficiency drop off as the voltage differential goes low. The 
ebay boards normally  don't have any heat sinking on them. The LPRO pulls full 
current for quite a while when it warms up.

Bob

On Sep 12, 2013, at 10:40 PM, Orin Eman  wrote:

> Yes, my reading of the datasheet was the same.  18V in would be fine for
> 15V output.  My concern would be how noisy the output would be.  I have 9
> of the from China ebay boards here (gave one to my boss to play with).  I
> should wire one up and take a look.  At any rate, I think a turn or two of
> the output wires through a ferrite bead would be in order.  The data sheet
> shows a secondary filter of 3uH/180uF as well which I'd certainly want to
> use to feed a 5680A.  Shouldn't do any harm, might do some good.
> 
> Orin.
> 
> 
> On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 7:19 PM, Robert LaJeunesse <
> rlajeune...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> 
>> Looking at the LM2596 datasheet the switch transistor saturation voltage
>> is 1.5V max at 3A (1.16v typ). That and an educated guess of about 0.25V
>> for inductor loss combine to set the minimum difference between input and
>> output. The 1.23V reference is about +/-3% accurate, so after setting the
>> "buckboard" to 15.00V out (at 25C) expect it to shift at most 0.5V over
>> time and temp. Add that to the minimum in-out difference and now you are at
>> a minimum safe input of 2.25V above the nominal 15V output, or 17.25V in.
>> An old 19V 3A laptop supply might be a good supply to use for this, if you
>> were local I'd hand you one.
>> 
>> As for efficiency, that just tells you the amount of heat the regulator,
>> plus inductor, plus diode, etc. will throw off. FWIW the datasheet Figure 5
>> indicates you should expect about 88% or better efficiency for 15V out and
>> at least 2V higher input voltage. (Doing some switching power supply design
>> for a living does help with my understanding of them, but not ever enough!)
>> 
>> Bob LaJeunesse
>> 
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Voltage?

[Bob Stewart]

Thanks for the input Orin!  I'm trying to keep this from turning into the 
monumental effort my GPSDO had turned into, at least for the moment.  So it's 
going to have to accept whatever the buckboard gives it, unless that's not 
enough.  I just want to see what kind accuracy my GPSDO gives on the scope.  
Later on, I'll give it a decent place to live.

Bob





>
> From: Orin Eman 
>To: Robert LaJeunesse ; Discussion of precise time and 
>frequency measurement  
>Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 9:40 PM
>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Voltage?
> 
>
>Yes, my reading of the datasheet was the same.  18V in would be fine for
>15V output.  My concern would be how noisy the output would be.  I have 9
>of the from China ebay boards here (gave one to my boss to play with).  I
>should wire one up and take a look.  At any rate, I think a turn or two of
>the output wires through a ferrite bead would be in order.  The data sheet
>shows a secondary filter of 3uH/180uF as well which I'd certainly want to
>use to feed a 5680A.  Shouldn't do any harm, might do some good.
>
>Orin.
>
>
>On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 7:19 PM, Robert LaJeunesse <
>rlajeune...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> Looking at the LM2596 datasheet the switch transistor saturation voltage
>> is 1.5V max at 3A (1.16v typ). That and an educated guess of about 0.25V
>> for inductor loss combine to set the minimum difference between input and
>> output. The 1.23V reference is about +/-3% accurate, so after setting the
>> "buckboard" to 15.00V out (at 25C) expect it to shift at most 0.5V over
>> time and temp. Add that to the minimum in-out difference and now you are at
>> a minimum safe input of 2.25V above the nominal 15V output, or 17.25V in.
>>  An old 19V 3A laptop supply might be a good supply to use for this, if you
>> were local I'd hand you one.
>>
>> As for efficiency, that just tells you the amount of heat the regulator,
>> plus inductor, plus diode, etc. will throw off. FWIW the datasheet Figure 5
>> indicates you should expect about 88% or better efficiency for 15V out and
>> at least 2V higher input voltage. (Doing some switching power supply design
>> for a living does help with my understanding of them, but not ever enough!)
>>
>> Bob LaJeunesse
>>
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Voltage?

[Orin Eman]

Yes, my reading of the datasheet was the same.  18V in would be fine for
15V output.  My concern would be how noisy the output would be.  I have 9
of the from China ebay boards here (gave one to my boss to play with).  I
should wire one up and take a look.  At any rate, I think a turn or two of
the output wires through a ferrite bead would be in order.  The data sheet
shows a secondary filter of 3uH/180uF as well which I'd certainly want to
use to feed a 5680A.  Shouldn't do any harm, might do some good.

Orin.


On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 7:19 PM, Robert LaJeunesse <
rlajeune...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Looking at the LM2596 datasheet the switch transistor saturation voltage
> is 1.5V max at 3A (1.16v typ). That and an educated guess of about 0.25V
> for inductor loss combine to set the minimum difference between input and
> output. The 1.23V reference is about +/-3% accurate, so after setting the
> "buckboard" to 15.00V out (at 25C) expect it to shift at most 0.5V over
> time and temp. Add that to the minimum in-out difference and now you are at
> a minimum safe input of 2.25V above the nominal 15V output, or 17.25V in.
>  An old 19V 3A laptop supply might be a good supply to use for this, if you
> were local I'd hand you one.
>
> As for efficiency, that just tells you the amount of heat the regulator,
> plus inductor, plus diode, etc. will throw off. FWIW the datasheet Figure 5
> indicates you should expect about 88% or better efficiency for 15V out and
> at least 2V higher input voltage. (Doing some switching power supply design
> for a living does help with my understanding of them, but not ever enough!)
>
> Bob LaJeunesse
>
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Voltage?

[Robert LaJeunesse]

Looking at the LM2596 datasheet the switch transistor saturation voltage is 
1.5V max at 3A (1.16v typ). That and an educated guess of about 0.25V for 
inductor loss combine to set the minimum difference between input and output. 
The 1.23V reference is about +/-3% accurate, so after setting the "buckboard" 
to 15.00V out (at 25C) expect it to shift at most 0.5V over time and temp. Add 
that to the minimum in-out difference and now you are at a minimum safe input 
of 2.25V above the nominal 15V output, or 17.25V in.  An old 19V 3A laptop 
supply might be a good supply to use for this, if you were local I'd hand you 
one.

As for efficiency, that just tells you the amount of heat the regulator, plus 
inductor, plus diode, etc. will throw off. FWIW the datasheet Figure 5 
indicates you should expect about 88% or better efficiency for 15V out and at 
least 2V higher input voltage. (Doing some switching power supply design for a 
living does help with my understanding of them, but not ever enough!)

Bob LaJeunesse



>
> From: Bob Stewart 
>To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement  
>Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 9:28 PM
>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Voltage?
> 
>
>I hadn't given it any thought.  I saw some ad that said 1.5 volts so I assumed 
>that.  But, after looking through the datasheet I see an  efficiency figure of 
> 73 percent for the adjustable one, so that does imply a need for about 20.5 
>volts.  OTOH, it says the feedback voltage is 1.23V, so I dunno.  And I'm 
>certainly not pretending I have any electrical design skills.   I'll find out. 
> =)
>
>Bob
>
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Voltage?

[Bob Stewart]

I hadn't given it any thought.  I saw some ad that said 1.5 volts so I assumed 
that.  But, after looking through the datasheet I see an  efficiency figure of  
73 percent for the adjustable one, so that does imply a need for about 20.5 
volts.  OTOH, it says the feedback voltage is 1.23V, so I dunno.  And I'm 
certainly not pretending I have any electrical design skills.   I'll find out.  
=)

Bob




>
> From: Bob Camp 
>To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement  
>Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 7:54 PM
>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Voltage?
> 
>
>Hi
>
>Looking at the 2496 data sheet - you probably want to put something > 20 volts 
>into the board if you want a reasonable 15 volts out of it.
>
>Bob
>
>On Sep 12, 2013, at 8:01 PM, Bob Stewart  wrote:
>
>> I just remembered:  Someone here or on the Agilent list suggested I buy a 
>> handful of those LM2596 buckboards a few weeks ago.   That one wallwart 
>> should have enough headroom to give me 15V.
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Bob Camp 
>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
>>>  
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 4:52 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Voltage?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi
>>> 
>>> As I recall, 15 volts is sort of the minimum they recommend on most of the 
>>> variations of the 5680. The internal regulators will probably be happier 
>>> with 18 volts than with 14.25. You best bet is indeed a 15 V supply. 
>>> 
>>> Bob
>>> 
>>> On Sep 12, 2013, at 11:03 AM, Bob Stewart  wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I decided to order a Rb standard, and I was wondering what the lower limit 
>>>> on the 15V power requirement is?  I have a PSU that will go up to 14.25V 
>>>> and my next closest is 18V.  Should I just get a new 15V PSU before this 
>>>> gets in?  Maybe I can make a quick mod on the big one and take it up to 
>>>> 15V.
>>>> 
>>>> Bob - AE6RV
>>>> ___
>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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>>> 
>>> 
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Voltage?

[Bob Camp]

Hi

Looking at the 2496 data sheet - you probably want to put something > 20 volts 
into the board if you want a reasonable 15 volts out of it.

Bob

On Sep 12, 2013, at 8:01 PM, Bob Stewart  wrote:

> I just remembered:  Someone here or on the Agilent list suggested I buy a 
> handful of those LM2596 buckboards a few weeks ago.   That one wallwart 
> should have enough headroom to give me 15V.
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> From: Bob Camp 
>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
>>  
>> Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 4:52 PM
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Voltage?
>> 
>> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> As I recall, 15 volts is sort of the minimum they recommend on most of the 
>> variations of the 5680. The internal regulators will probably be happier 
>> with 18 volts than with 14.25. You best bet is indeed a 15 V supply. 
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>> On Sep 12, 2013, at 11:03 AM, Bob Stewart  wrote:
>> 
>>> I decided to order a Rb standard, and I was wondering what the lower limit 
>>> on the 15V power requirement is?  I have a PSU that will go up to 14.25V 
>>> and my next closest is 18V.  Should I just get a new 15V PSU before this 
>>> gets in?  Maybe I can make a quick mod on the big one and take it up to 15V.
>>> 
>>> Bob - AE6RV
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Voltage?

[Bob Stewart]

I just remembered:  Someone here or on the Agilent list suggested I buy a 
handful of those LM2596 buckboards a few weeks ago.   That one wallwart should 
have enough headroom to give me 15V.

Bob





>
> From: Bob Camp 
>To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement  
>Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 4:52 PM
>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Voltage?
> 
>
>Hi
>
>As I recall, 15 volts is sort of the minimum they recommend on most of the 
>variations of the 5680. The internal regulators will probably be happier with 
>18 volts than with 14.25. You best bet is indeed a 15 V supply. 
>
>Bob
>
>On Sep 12, 2013, at 11:03 AM, Bob Stewart  wrote:
>
>> I decided to order a Rb standard, and I was wondering what the lower limit 
>> on the 15V power requirement is?  I have a PSU that will go up to 14.25V and 
>> my next closest is 18V.  Should I just get a new 15V PSU before this gets 
>> in?  Maybe I can make a quick mod on the big one and take it up to 15V.
>> 
>> Bob - AE6RV
>> ___
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>
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Voltage?

[paul swed]

So true in all aspects.


On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 6:43 PM, Bob Stewart  wrote:

> Thanks Paul.  I remember when I joined this group a few weeks(?) ago I was
> just looking for some cheap way to improve the accuracy of my counter.  So
> I decided to build a cheap, entry level GSPDO.  And I bought a 3456A
> because I didn't understand my code had a positive feedback loop..  And I
> got a 5335A.  And I spent many many hours turning Bert's FLL into a PLL.
> And now I'm getting a Rb standard as a check for the code I'm "perfecting"
> for my GPSDO.  You guys were right.  This time stuff is more addictive than
> crack.  I just tell everyone I'm building a time machine.  =)
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> > From: paul swed 
> >To: Bob Stewart ; Discussion of precise time and
> frequency measurement 
> >Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 5:31 PM
> >Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Voltage?
> >
> >
> >
> >A good supply is desirable wall warts aren't.
> >Enjoy your new Rb
> >Regards
> >Paul
> >WB8TSL
> >
> >
> >
> >On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 6:01 PM, Bob Stewart  wrote:
> >
> >Thanks Bob.  I looked at the datasheet again and found that they do like
> 15-18.  Unfortunately my "18V" supply is a wallwart that supplies
> "22.5-18V,  2.0-2.5A".  By the ordering, I assume that means it's load
> dependent.  So, I guess I'll find some Plan B.
> >>
> >>Bob
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> From: Bob Camp 
> >>>To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <
> time-nuts@febo.com>
> >>>Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 4:52 PM
> >>>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Voltage?
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Hi
> >>>
> >>>As I recall, 15 volts is sort of the minimum they recommend on most of
> the variations of the 5680. The internal regulators will probably be
> happier with 18 volts than with 14.25. You best bet is indeed a 15 V supply.
> >>>
> >>>Bob
> >>>
> >>>On Sep 12, 2013, at 11:03 AM, Bob Stewart  wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I decided to order a Rb standard, and I was wondering what the lower
> limit on the 15V power requirement is?  I have a PSU that will go up to
> 14.25V and my next closest is 18V.  Should I just get a new 15V PSU before
> this gets in?  Maybe I can make a quick mod on the big one and take it up
> to 15V.
> >>>>
> >>>> Bob - AE6RV
> >>>> ___
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> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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> >>>
> >>>
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> >
> >
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