Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B for OS X

[Chris Albertson]

Generator?   I know there is a decoder in NTP.I thought the only
generator was the WWVB timecode generator in the "test" directory.In
any case NTP work the same all the various platforms as I think there is
only one source distribution.

I use OS X too.  I find the best way to locate software like this is to
hunt for the Linux version.  Then if it runs on Linux it usually can be
made to run on OS X

On Sat, Oct 29, 2016 at 1:01 PM, bownes  wrote:

>
> Has anyone seen an IRIG-B generator for OS X sound port?
>
> I know there is one for the PC in NTP, but thought I would ask before
> diving in to that asp pit.
>
> Bob
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-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B audio decoder circuits and ICs sought

[Azelio Boriani]

The schematic seems to have 4 pages (only page 2 is in the PDF) and
the description indicates that ICs Z19, Z14 and Z10 recover the IRIG
code but the relative schematic page is missing...

On Sun, May 24, 2015 at 9:55 PM, Joseph Gwinn joegw...@comcast.net wrote:
 Responses interspersed below.  Joe

 On Sun, 24 May 2015 12:00:01 -0400, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:

 Today's Topics:

9. Re: IRIG-B audio decoder circuits and ICs sought (Esa Heikkinen)
   13. IRIG-B decoder schematic (Tim Shoppa)


 --


 --

 Message: 9
 Date: Sun, 24 May 2015 10:33:47 +0300
 From: Esa Heikkinen tn1...@nic.fi
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
   time-nuts@febo.com
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B audio decoder circuits and ICs sought
 Message-ID: 55617edb.5070...@nic.fi
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

 Joseph Gwinn kirjoitti:

 When I last used IRIG-B005, the vendor (Symmetricom?) said it was good
 for a few meters only on shielded twisted pair. I recall that the
 handling of shield grounds was strange.   This was OK, because the
 signal was confined to one cabinet, and it worked just fine.
 But there was no mention that the B005 followed RS422 or RS485 or
 anything else.  Nor does IRIG 200-04 say this, so I suspect that each
 company solves it differently.

 Yes, there seems to be many implementations.
 Quote from Technical Note TN-102 from Cyber Sciences:
 http://www.cyber-sciences.com/documents/TN-102_IRIG-B.pdf

 The IRIG 200-04 standard does not define specific signal levels for IRIG-B.
 Typical techniques for transmission of unmodulated IRIG-B include:
 - TTL-level signal over coaxial cable or shielded twisted-pair cable
 - Multi-point distribution using 24 Vdc for signal and control power
 - RS-485 differential signal over shielded twisted-pair cable
 - RS-232 signal over shielded cable (short distances only)
 - Optical fiber
 Typical techniques for transmission of modulated IRIG-B include:
 - Coaxial cable, terminated in 50 ohms or higher.
 - Shielded twisted-pair cable

 So your main concern with unmodulated version is compatibility between
 different vendors.

 Yes, now and in the future as things fail and are replaced.


 Yes, planning to buy at least one spare unit when their prices will drop
 on Ebay... :)
 The problem is that they don't handle GPS week field overflow gracefuly.

 Yes. Internal GPS of TS2100 cannot be used anymore, it failed alrady in
 February. Used external PPS since then. Since having external PPS is
 major problem for most of the TS2100 users I hope that the price of
 these units will drop soon on Ebay.

 I'm interested to buy especially rubidium version of the TS2100, if
 someone has working one having only the GPS problem...

 Are you trying to synchronize a Rb unit via IRIG-B12x?  Tried that
 once.  It doesn't work - the IRIG-B12x signal can wiggle faster that
 the Rb can follow, so the Rb never syncs, or the sync is ratty and
 fragile.  IRIG-B005 can work though.  That was the solution.




 --



 --

 Message: 13
 Date: Sun, 24 May 2015 07:05:14 -0400
 From: Tim Shoppa tsho...@gmail.com
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
   time-nuts@febo.com
 Subject: [time-nuts] IRIG-B decoder schematic
 Message-ID:
   caj_qrvz0e08747ryekqnunggp6x5wtw145n6bcdti6ax6pd...@mail.gmail.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

 Truetime 820 was made in the 80's and 90's and we have many at my day job
 fed with 1kHz AM modulated IRIG-B120.

 Schematic at http://www.trailing-edge.com/IRIG-B-DECODER.pdf

 Useful if you also have the theory of operation at
 http://www.arsitec.com.br/arquivos/produtos/man-820-210.pdf

 Tim N3QE

 Got them; thanks.  I'll sturdy them.



 --

 End of time-nuts Digest, Vol 130, Issue 35
 **
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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B audio decoder circuits and ICs sought

[Joseph Gwinn]

Responses interspersed below.  Joe

On Sun, 24 May 2015 12:00:01 -0400, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:
 
 Today's Topics:
 
9. Re: IRIG-B audio decoder circuits and ICs sought (Esa Heikkinen)
   13. IRIG-B decoder schematic (Tim Shoppa)
 
 
 --
 

 --
 
 Message: 9
 Date: Sun, 24 May 2015 10:33:47 +0300
 From: Esa Heikkinen tn1...@nic.fi
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
   time-nuts@febo.com
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B audio decoder circuits and ICs sought
 Message-ID: 55617edb.5070...@nic.fi
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
 
 Joseph Gwinn kirjoitti:
 
 When I last used IRIG-B005, the vendor (Symmetricom?) said it was good 
 for a few meters only on shielded twisted pair. I recall that the 
 handling of shield grounds was strange.   This was OK, because the 
 signal was confined to one cabinet, and it worked just fine.
 But there was no mention that the B005 followed RS422 or RS485 or 
 anything else.  Nor does IRIG 200-04 say this, so I suspect that each 
 company solves it differently.
 
 Yes, there seems to be many implementations.
 Quote from Technical Note TN-102 from Cyber Sciences:
 http://www.cyber-sciences.com/documents/TN-102_IRIG-B.pdf
 
 The IRIG 200-04 standard does not define specific signal levels for IRIG-B.
 Typical techniques for transmission of unmodulated IRIG-B include:
 - TTL-level signal over coaxial cable or shielded twisted-pair cable
 - Multi-point distribution using 24 Vdc for signal and control power
 - RS-485 differential signal over shielded twisted-pair cable
 - RS-232 signal over shielded cable (short distances only)
 - Optical fiber
 Typical techniques for transmission of modulated IRIG-B include:
 - Coaxial cable, terminated in 50 ohms or higher.
 - Shielded twisted-pair cable
 
 So your main concern with unmodulated version is compatibility between 
 different vendors.

Yes, now and in the future as things fail and are replaced.


 Yes, planning to buy at least one spare unit when their prices will drop 
 on Ebay... :)
 The problem is that they don't handle GPS week field overflow gracefuly.
 
 Yes. Internal GPS of TS2100 cannot be used anymore, it failed alrady in 
 February. Used external PPS since then. Since having external PPS is 
 major problem for most of the TS2100 users I hope that the price of 
 these units will drop soon on Ebay.
 
 I'm interested to buy especially rubidium version of the TS2100, if 
 someone has working one having only the GPS problem...

Are you trying to synchronize a Rb unit via IRIG-B12x?  Tried that 
once.  It doesn't work - the IRIG-B12x signal can wiggle faster that 
the Rb can follow, so the Rb never syncs, or the sync is ratty and 
fragile.  IRIG-B005 can work though.  That was the solution.



 
 --

 
 
 --
 
 Message: 13
 Date: Sun, 24 May 2015 07:05:14 -0400
 From: Tim Shoppa tsho...@gmail.com
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
   time-nuts@febo.com
 Subject: [time-nuts] IRIG-B decoder schematic
 Message-ID:
   caj_qrvz0e08747ryekqnunggp6x5wtw145n6bcdti6ax6pd...@mail.gmail.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
 
 Truetime 820 was made in the 80's and 90's and we have many at my day job
 fed with 1kHz AM modulated IRIG-B120.
 
 Schematic at http://www.trailing-edge.com/IRIG-B-DECODER.pdf
 
 Useful if you also have the theory of operation at
 http://www.arsitec.com.br/arquivos/produtos/man-820-210.pdf
 
 Tim N3QE

Got them; thanks.  I'll sturdy them.

 

 --
 
 End of time-nuts Digest, Vol 130, Issue 35
 **
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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B audio decoder circuits and ICs sought

[Esa Heikkinen]

Joseph Gwinn kirjoitti:

When I last used IRIG-B005, the vendor (Symmetricom?) said it was good 
for a few meters only on shielded twisted pair. I recall that the 
handling of shield grounds was strange.   This was OK, because the 
signal was confined to one cabinet, and it worked just fine.
But there was no mention that the B005 followed RS422 or RS485 or 
anything else.  Nor does IRIG 200-04 say this, so I suspect that each 
company solves it differently.


Yes, there seems to be many implementations.
Quote from Technical Note TN-102 from Cyber Sciences:
http://www.cyber-sciences.com/documents/TN-102_IRIG-B.pdf

The IRIG 200-04 standard does not define specific signal levels for IRIG-B.
Typical techniques for transmission of unmodulated IRIG-B include:
- TTL-level signal over coaxial cable or shielded twisted-pair cable
- Multi-point distribution using 24 Vdc for signal and control power
- RS-485 differential signal over shielded twisted-pair cable
- RS-232 signal over shielded cable (short distances only)
- Optical fiber
Typical techniques for transmission of modulated IRIG-B include:
- Coaxial cable, terminated in 50 ohms or higher.
- Shielded twisted-pair cable

So your main concern with unmodulated version is compatibility between 
different vendors.


Yes, planning to buy at least one spare unit when their prices will drop 
on Ebay... :)

The problem is that they don't handle GPS week field overflow gracefuly.


Yes. Internal GPS of TS2100 cannot be used anymore, it failed alrady in 
February. Used external PPS since then. Since having external PPS is 
major problem for most of the TS2100 users I hope that the price of 
these units will drop soon on Ebay.


I'm interested to buy especially rubidium version of the TS2100, if 
someone has working one having only the GPS problem...


Best regards,

--
73s!
Esa
OH4KJU
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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B audio decoder circuits and ICs sought

[Esa Heikkinen]

Joseph Gwinn kirjoitti:


I prefer the DC level shifted variant of IRIG-B.
I like and use IRIG-B00x too, but it only reaches a few meters, versus 
the required tens of meters.


It's differential RS485-alike bus (with TS2100 at least) using 5V 
signalling level. It works easily more than few meters with twisted pair 
cable. For RS485 they claim more than kilometer if the speed is less 
than 100 kbit/s and here it's only 100 bit/s. So only tens of meters 
there's no problem.


I think the AM was originally intended for transmitting IRIG-B 
wirelessly or analog tape/film soundtrack recoring...


Yes, but I must have IRIG-B12x (Amplitude modulated 1 KHz sine wave), 
and the analog processing complicates things.  I think that one best 
implements the IRIG decoder in a DSP chip.


Yes and there will be delays. As long decoding delay remains constant, 
it's easy to compensate. In my implementation the decoding delay is 48 
cycles (9,6 usec) and remains constant. Actually this is delay from 
rising edge verification to timer setting point.


When decoding IRIG-B it's one second behind. Timekeeping functions are 
needed anyway. Data verification system comes as a side product. It's 
only needed to compare last received IRIG-B frame with timestamp of 
passed second. If times differ then there's bit errors OR timekeeping is 
out of sync. Code has to decide when it should just ignore the received 
data and when it should syncronize the internal timekeeping.



TS2100s are generating a lot of replacement business for GPS vendors.


Yes, planning to buy at least one spare unit when their prices will drop 
on Ebay... :)



To be modern, one must code in C?  Isn't that true?


I use assembler only with these 8-bit PIC's. It's little bit special 
case, there's no point to use assembler with any larger processors. This 
little baby has only 35 assembly commands. Because most of them run in 
single cycle it's quite easy to write time critical code like this 
IRIG-B decoder.


--
73s!
Esa
OH4KJU
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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B audio decoder circuits and ICs sought

[Hal Murray]

 It's util/tg2.c

 How do I get hold of the code?  Is it in the NTP distribution,
 versus all by itself somewhere?

It's in the normal distribution.  Tar file available from:
  http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Main/SoftwareDownloads


-- 
These are my opinions.  I hate spam.



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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B audio decoder circuits and ICs sought

[Joseph Gwinn]

Multiple answers interspersed below.  Joe

On Fri, 22 May 2015 12:00:02 -0400, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:
 Send time-nuts mailing list submissions to
 
 Message: 5
 Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 22:22:12 -0400
 From: Joseph Gwinn joegw...@comcast.net
 To: time-nuts@febo.com
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B audio decoder circuits and ICs sought
 Message-ID: 2015052112517328.ec5eb...@comcast.net
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
 
 Multiple answers interspersed below.  Joe
 
 On Wed, 20 May 2015 10:04:19 -0400, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:
[snip]
 --
 
 --
 
 Message: 7
 Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 22:50:46 -0700
 From: Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
   time-nuts@febo.com
 Cc: hmur...@megapathdsl.net
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B audio decoder circuits and ICs sought
 Message-ID:
   20150522055047.020c7406...@ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
 
 
 joegw...@comcast.net said:
 I recall that there are audio files with real IRIG-B12x signals in  them,
 for testing.  Does anyone recall where these files are? 
 
 There is a program in the ntp package that generates IRIG audio from the 
 local system clock.  It says IRIG-B, but I don't know about the 12x 
 part.  A 
 comment in the code says 1000 Hz.
 
 It's util/tg2.c

How do I get hold of the code?  Is it in the NTP distribution, versus 
all by itself somewhere?



 --
 
 Message: 9
 Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 21:58:14 -0700
 From: Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
   time-nuts@febo.com
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B audio decoder circuits and ICs sought
 Message-ID:
   cabbxvhtkxesvaor6kcraicfc0ln5dmdj9jptqhprr3zrnyz...@mail.gmail.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
 
 I remember the need to use assembly also.  But those days are gone for
 two reasons (1) modern optimizing compilers are so good that they can
 beat hand written assembly.  and (2) Today CPUs are cheeper than
 software engineers.  Back in the 70's it was the other way around.

It is not true that compilers can outdo skilled assembly programmers, 
because skilled programmers can use the oddball machine instructions 
that compiler writers ignore.

Like triple-indexed remote execute (SEL 32/55, cloned from IBM 360 or 
the like).  Really good for N-dimensional tables of action routines.

But you are right about the tradeoff between machine cost and 
programmer cost.  That is what caused most embedded realtime to go to 
C/C++.  Although there have been cases where a little bit of assembly 
language was needed, typically in the form of a C-callable 
assembly-coded function.


 And NO, using C is hardly being modern.  Maybe C++ is still modern
 in some circles but today we have Python, Swift and 50 others.  C (or
 more likely C++) while still widely used is kind of old school.

Modern compared to the old days, where it was iron men in wooden 
ships.  

In the embedded world, C rules.  C++ is too big and too heavy.


 The last assembly I had to write was parts of the OS for a CDC
 mainframe (PPU code for a 6600)

Same era, different machines.

 
 OK back on topic:  How to process IRIG.Can't you mix it down to
 baseband with a local oscillator, mixer and filter?  It's AM on a very
 low frequency carrier.

That is a standard approach, and goes by the name product mixer.  
Feed IRIG signal to a hard limiter, lock a phase lock loop (PLL) to the 
resulting square wave, multiply the PLL output and the IRIG AM 
together, to yield the modulation (difference signal) and 2 KHz ripple 
(the sum signal).  Use a notch filter to eliminate the 2 KHz signal.



 To be modern, one must code in C?  Isn't that true?
 
 (Don't tell anybody, but I was an assembly-language programmer back in
 the 1970s.  In those days, assembly was the only way to get sufficient
 performance given the slow iron of the day.  Out main programs were
 about 70,000 lines each.  The assembler took all night to ingest all
 that.)

The machine was that SEL 32/55. Your smartphone is faster.

 
 End of time-nuts Digest, Vol 130, Issue 32
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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B audio decoder circuits and ICs sought

[Chris Albertson]

I remember the need to use assembly also.  But those days are gone for
two reasons (1) modern optimizing compilers are so good that they can
beat hand written assembly.  and (2) Today CPUs are cheeper than
software engineers.  Back in the 70's it was the other way around.

And NO, using C is hardly being modern.  Maybe C++ is still modern
in some circles but today we have Python, Swift and 50 others.  C (or
more likely C++) while still widely used is kind of old school.

The last assembly I had to write was parts of the OS for a CDC
mainframe (PPU code for a 6600)


OK back on topic:  How to process IRIG.Can't you mix it down to
baseband with a local oscillator, mixer and filter?  It's AM on a very
low frequency carrier.

 To be modern, one must code in C?  Isn't that true?

 (Don't tell anybody, but I was an assembly-language programmer back in
 the 1970s.  In those days, assembly was the only way to get sufficient
 performance given the slow iron of the day.  Out main programs were
 about 70,000 lines each.  The assembler took all night to ingest all
 that.)



-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B audio decoder circuits and ICs sought

[Hal Murray]

joegw...@comcast.net said:
 I recall that there are audio files with real IRIG-B12x signals in  them,
 for testing.  Does anyone recall where these files are? 

There is a program in the ntp package that generates IRIG audio from the 
local system clock.  It says IRIG-B, but I don't know about the 12x part.  A 
comment in the code says 1000 Hz.

It's util/tg2.c

-- 
These are my opinions.  I hate spam.



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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B audio decoder circuits and ICs sought

[Tim Shoppa]

On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 10:22 PM, Joseph Gwinn joegw...@comcast.net wrote:

 The definition of good here is tenth-microsecond alignment between
 the 1PPS output of the decoder and the incoming IRIG-B12x signal.



  From: Tim Shoppa tsho...@gmail.com
  To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
  Subject: Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B audio decoder circuits and ICs sought
 
  See for example the Truetime 820 decoder. Discriminators, One-shots, and
  Flip-Flops with pots to tweak the levels.

 Hmm.  Interesting.  URL?


I'm not sure 0.1us is a reasonable expectation to get PPS from the 1kHz AF
variant of IRIG-B.

1kHz AM IRIG-B was usually distributed across a site/range by
telephone-type wiring using interspersed audio transformers for isolation
in the long haul. It was used to drive simple displays that used 60's
transistors or 70's SSI chips, and also recorded on parallel tracks on
telemetry recorders. It's pretty cool because when playing back old
telemetry tapes we would just use the same clock display we did when live,
but when fed the audio from the recorder it showed us the time of
recording. (In some cases in the 80's, I got to work with telemetry tapes
that were 20 years old! Today they'd be 50 years old and you could still
play it back while watching the display). Sometimes we would slow down the
tape and on the pen recorders optimistically we could eyeball times with a
resolution finer than the 10ms bit rate, but not better than 1ms.

Tim.
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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B audio decoder circuits and ICs sought

[Joseph Gwinn]

Multiple answers interspersed below.  Joe

On Wed, 20 May 2015 10:04:19 -0400, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:
 Send time-nuts mailing list submissions to
 Message: 5
 Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 22:08:47 +0200
 From: Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org
 To: time-nuts@febo.com
 Cc: mag...@rubidium.se
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B audio decoder circuits and ICs sought
 
 --
 Joe,
 
 On 05/19/2015 03:51 PM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
 I'm studying up on how IRIG-B decoder circuits work.  What are the good
 approaches, the bad approaches, especially in the presence of noise?
 (I asked on the NTP group, with little result beyond the C/C++ decoder
 software written for the audio channel of a 1990s Sun workstation,
 which it ate alive: 50% cpu load.)
 
 Are there decoder ICs available?
 
 The closest to a decoder IC I've found is some FPGA code from a partner
 of Microsemi (nee Symmetricom):
 
 
..http://www.microsemi.com/products/fpga-soc/design-resources/partners/semquest
 
 All marketing and little technical information.  I'll have to find out
 the details.
 
 
 I find very little, though I did find one intriguing idea using a
 Costas Loop to lock to the 1 KHz carrier, and a posting suggesting
 squaring the input signal and phase-locking to the 2 KHz result.  Most
 recent articles on IRIG decoders come from Chinese sources, mostly in
 the AC power industry.
 
 There is a few different approaches for recovering the 1 kHz carrier.
 The AM modulation is naturally a bit of a challenge as it will modulate 
 the slew-rate.
 
 Once the 100 Hz message is recovered, the break-down is relatively 
 straight-forward.
 
 The question is really, what is the requirement you have and what type 
 of processing do you think about. A corner of a FPGA will do it.

The definition of good here is tenth-microsecond alignment between 
the 1PPS output of the decoder and the incoming IRIG-B12x signal.

 
 I prefer the DC level shifted variant of IRIG-B.

I like and use IRIG-B00x too, but it only reaches a few meters, versus 
the required tens of meters.


 --
 
 Message: 7
 Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 16:37:58 -0400
 From: Tim Shoppa tsho...@gmail.com
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
   time-nuts@febo.com
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B audio decoder circuits and ICs sought
 
 See for example the Truetime 820 decoder. Discriminators, One-shots, and
 Flip-Flops with pots to tweak the levels.

Hmm.  Interesting.  URL?


 
 Tim N3QE
 
 On Tuesday, May 19, 2015, Joseph Gwinn joegw...@comcast.net wrote:
[snip]
 
 --
 
 Message: 11
 Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 23:59:13 +0300
 From: Esa Heikkinen tn1...@nic.fi
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
   time-nuts@febo.com
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B audio decoder circuits and ICs sought
 
 Joseph Gwinn kirjoitti:
 
 I'm studying up on how IRIG-B decoder circuits work.  What are the good 
 approaches, the bad approaches, especially in the presence of noise?  
 (I asked on the NTP group, with little result beyond the C/C++ decoder 
 software written for the audio channel of a 1990s Sun workstation, 
 which it ate alive: 50% cpu load.)
 
 I was also searching chips for IRIG-B decoding lately, but didn't find 
 any. Then I decided to create my own, mostly just for fun but there's 
 also some uses for it. So I ended up to use 8-bit PIC16F873 and do 
 IRIG-B DCLS decoding with it. DCLS means logic level IRIG-B signal from 
 Symmetricom TS2100. So it's not 1 kHz modulated.

Yes, but I must have IRIG-B12x (Amplitude modulated 1 KHz sine wave), 
and the analog processing complicates things.  I think that one best 
implements the IRIG decoder in a DSP chip.

 
 At a start it was only a time code decoder... Then, maybe because very 
 rainy weather in the Finland, new features was added daily. For now, it 
 calculates local time (calendar date and weekday) for IRIG-B day number 
 and year and supports european daylight saving time. Leap second is also 
 supported, if it's encoded in the IEEE1344 control bits (Tymserve TS2100 
 encodes this, leap seconds are flagged one minute before the actual leap 
 second). IRIG-B timecode is also verified by checking its continuity. 
 If there's momentary errors or total loss of timecode, timing continues 
 in freerun mode. PPS is also generated from IRIG-B with about +-100 ns. 
 maximum jitter (it's one instruction cycle of 'F873, so it cannot be 
 done better with this MCU). If the whole system is rebooted due to long 
 blackout with UPS batteries runout, TS2100 will jump back to January 
 first of current year. And because TS2100 GPS functionality is now dead, 
 it means that it will also continue with wrong time until it's manually 
 set. Because of that, support for TS2100 resets was also added. Now it 
 keeps record of passed dates on the EEPROM... :)

TS2100s are generating a lot of replacement business for GPS vendors.


 Now I

Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B audio decoder circuits and ICs sought

[Joseph Gwinn]

On Wed, 20 May 2015 12:00:01 -0400, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:
 
 Message: 1
 Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 09:19:47 -0500
 From: Graham / KE9H ke9h.gra...@gmail.com
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
   time-nuts@febo.com
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B audio decoder circuits and ICs sought
 Message-ID:
   capyj-yu3fxv6i68gwqw1m1do3_tvry+oirv6r+uhhth3m48...@mail.gmail.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
 
 Be aware that there are about 100 variations on IRIG B, that is, B000
 through B257.

Yes.  I wasn't being specific, but the signal is IRIG-B12x, most likely 
B124.


 You should obtain a copy of IRIG STANDARD 200-04, the 2004 version,
 which I believe is the most current.  It is available on line, if you
 Google for it.

Thanks, but already got it.

Joe Gwinn


 End of time-nuts Digest, Vol 130, Issue 30
 **
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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B audio decoder circuits and ICs sought

[Graham / KE9H]

Be aware that there are about 100 variations on IRIG B, that is, B000
through B257.
You should obtain a copy of IRIG STANDARD 200-04, the 2004 version,
which I believe is the most current.  It is available on line, if you
Google for it.

--- Graham / KE9H

==

On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 8:11 PM, Neil Schroeder gign...@gmail.com wrote:

 A bc635 can be had on eBay for almost nothing. It's not a pleasant piece of
 gear, but this is one task it can help you with greatly.

 Tools exist to let you analyse the stream extensively, and the Api is
 trivial to learn -but not super featured at the high level.

 On Tuesday, May 19, 2015, Tim Shoppa tsho...@gmail.com wrote:

  See for example the Truetime 820 decoder. Discriminators, One-shots, and
  Flip-Flops with pots to tweak the levels.
 
  Tim N3QE
 
  On Tuesday, May 19, 2015, Joseph Gwinn joegw...@comcast.net
  javascript:; wrote:
 
   I'm studying up on how IRIG-B decoder circuits work.  What are the good
   approaches, the bad approaches, especially in the presence of noise?
   (I asked on the NTP group, with little result beyond the C/C++ decoder
   software written for the audio channel of a 1990s Sun workstation,
   which it ate alive: 50% cpu load.)
  
   Are there decoder ICs available?
  
   The closest to a decoder IC I've found is some FPGA code from a partner
   of Microsemi (nee Symmetricom):
  
   ..
  
 
 http://www.microsemi.com/products/fpga-soc/design-resources/partners/semquest
   
  
   All marketing and little technical information.  I'll have to find out
   the details.
  
  
   I find very little, though I did find one intriguing idea using a
   Costas Loop to lock to the 1 KHz carrier, and a posting suggesting
   squaring the input signal and phase-locking to the 2 KHz result.  Most
   recent articles on IRIG decoders come from Chinese sources, mostly in
   the AC power industry.
  
   Joe Gwinn
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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B audio decoder circuits and ICs sought

[Neil Schroeder]

A bc635 can be had on eBay for almost nothing. It's not a pleasant piece of
gear, but this is one task it can help you with greatly.

Tools exist to let you analyse the stream extensively, and the Api is
trivial to learn -but not super featured at the high level.

On Tuesday, May 19, 2015, Tim Shoppa tsho...@gmail.com wrote:

 See for example the Truetime 820 decoder. Discriminators, One-shots, and
 Flip-Flops with pots to tweak the levels.

 Tim N3QE

 On Tuesday, May 19, 2015, Joseph Gwinn joegw...@comcast.net
 javascript:; wrote:

  I'm studying up on how IRIG-B decoder circuits work.  What are the good
  approaches, the bad approaches, especially in the presence of noise?
  (I asked on the NTP group, with little result beyond the C/C++ decoder
  software written for the audio channel of a 1990s Sun workstation,
  which it ate alive: 50% cpu load.)
 
  Are there decoder ICs available?
 
  The closest to a decoder IC I've found is some FPGA code from a partner
  of Microsemi (nee Symmetricom):
 
  ..
 
 http://www.microsemi.com/products/fpga-soc/design-resources/partners/semquest
  
 
  All marketing and little technical information.  I'll have to find out
  the details.
 
 
  I find very little, though I did find one intriguing idea using a
  Costas Loop to lock to the 1 KHz carrier, and a posting suggesting
  squaring the input signal and phase-locking to the 2 KHz result.  Most
  recent articles on IRIG decoders come from Chinese sources, mostly in
  the AC power industry.
 
  Joe Gwinn
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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B audio decoder circuits and ICs sought

[Esa Heikkinen]

Joseph Gwinn kirjoitti:

I'm studying up on how IRIG-B decoder circuits work.  What are the good 
approaches, the bad approaches, especially in the presence of noise?  
(I asked on the NTP group, with little result beyond the C/C++ decoder 
software written for the audio channel of a 1990s Sun workstation, 
which it ate alive: 50% cpu load.)


I was also searching chips for IRIG-B decoding lately, but didn't find 
any. Then I decided to create my own, mostly just for fun but there's 
also some uses for it. So I ended up to use 8-bit PIC16F873 and do 
IRIG-B DCLS decoding with it. DCLS means logic level IRIG-B signal from 
Symmetricom TS2100. So it's not 1 kHz modulated.


At a start it was only a time code decoder... Then, maybe because very 
rainy weather in the Finland, new features was added daily. For now, it 
calculates local time (calendar date and weekday) for IRIG-B day number 
and year and supports european daylight saving time. Leap second is also 
supported, if it's encoded in the IEEE1344 control bits (Tymserve TS2100 
encodes this, leap seconds are flagged one minute before the actual leap 
second). IRIG-B timecode is also verified by checking it's continuity. 
If there's momentary errors or total loss of timecode, timing continues 
in freerun mode. PPS is also generated from IRIG-B with about +-100 ns. 
maximum jitter (it's one instruction cycle of 'F873, so it cannot be 
done better with this MCU). If the whole system is rebooted due to long 
blackout with UPS batteries runout, TS2100 will jump back to January 
first of current year. And because TS2100 GPS functionality is now dead, 
it means that it will also continue with wrong time until it's manually 
set. Because of that, support for TS2100 resets was also added. Now it 
keeps record of passed dates on the EEPROM... :)


Now I have also DCF77 version of this, where PPS signal is replaced with 
unmodulated DCF77 timecode with same accuracy than PPS has. I'm planning 
to use this at least to build some kind of IRIG-B wallclock and possibly 
to syncronize radio controlled clocks locally with close field magnetic 
coupling, because actual DCF77 does not work here. However, when testing 
this I was little bit disappointed when noticed that radio controlled 
clocks doesn't seem to support leap secods at all. Also their time 
setting accuracy is not millisecond grade, so the +-100 ns. accurate 
DCF77 output is little bit overkill when the final setting error can 
easily seen by eyes...


Code is 100% assembler and full version with DCF77 encoder included (and 
of course with debug LCD drivers) takes only about 1,5 kilowords and 
needs only 66 bytes of RAM when running.


And it's still raining in Finland.. Have to see, what features will be 
added next.. :)


--
73s!
Esa
OH4KJU
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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B audio decoder circuits and ICs sought

[Magnus Danielson]

Joe,

On 05/19/2015 03:51 PM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:

I'm studying up on how IRIG-B decoder circuits work.  What are the good
approaches, the bad approaches, especially in the presence of noise?
(I asked on the NTP group, with little result beyond the C/C++ decoder
software written for the audio channel of a 1990s Sun workstation,
which it ate alive: 50% cpu load.)

Are there decoder ICs available?

The closest to a decoder IC I've found is some FPGA code from a partner
of Microsemi (nee Symmetricom):

..http://www.microsemi.com/products/fpga-soc/design-resources/partners/semquest

All marketing and little technical information.  I'll have to find out
the details.


I find very little, though I did find one intriguing idea using a
Costas Loop to lock to the 1 KHz carrier, and a posting suggesting
squaring the input signal and phase-locking to the 2 KHz result.  Most
recent articles on IRIG decoders come from Chinese sources, mostly in
the AC power industry.


There is a few different approaches for recovering the 1 kHz carrier.
The AM modulation is naturally a bit of a challenge as it will modulate 
the slew-rate.


Once the 100 Hz message is recovered, the break-down is relatively 
straight-forward.


The question is really, what is the requirement you have and what type 
of processing do you think about. A corner of a FPGA will do it.


I prefer the DC level shifted variant of IRIG-B.

Cheers,
Magnus
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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B audio decoder circuits and ICs sought

[Tim Shoppa]

See for example the Truetime 820 decoder. Discriminators, One-shots, and
Flip-Flops with pots to tweak the levels.

Tim N3QE

On Tuesday, May 19, 2015, Joseph Gwinn joegw...@comcast.net wrote:

 I'm studying up on how IRIG-B decoder circuits work.  What are the good
 approaches, the bad approaches, especially in the presence of noise?
 (I asked on the NTP group, with little result beyond the C/C++ decoder
 software written for the audio channel of a 1990s Sun workstation,
 which it ate alive: 50% cpu load.)

 Are there decoder ICs available?

 The closest to a decoder IC I've found is some FPGA code from a partner
 of Microsemi (nee Symmetricom):

 ..
 http://www.microsemi.com/products/fpga-soc/design-resources/partners/semquest
 

 All marketing and little technical information.  I'll have to find out
 the details.


 I find very little, though I did find one intriguing idea using a
 Costas Loop to lock to the 1 KHz carrier, and a posting suggesting
 squaring the input signal and phase-locking to the 2 KHz result.  Most
 recent articles on IRIG decoders come from Chinese sources, mostly in
 the AC power industry.

 Joe Gwinn
 ___
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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B with Arduino

[Collins, Graham]

And don't forget the AtMega88 - not as much memory but you can still
pack a lot into it. I think the original Arduino was based on the 88 and
the bootloader is still available meaning you can build an Arduino
compatible board using the 88, you may still be able to by the 88 chip
with the bootloader already programmed from some of the online arduino
suppliers i.e. Adafruit  http://www.adafruit.com/  among the many others
(and eBay too).

Cheers, Graham ve3gtc

 

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Eric Garner
Sent: December 15, 2010 23:57
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B with Arduino

The 168 is it's junior cousin, and it's available. 

Sent from my Banana jr (tm) Mobile Device

On Dec 15, 2010, at 7:21 PM, Bruce Lane kyr...@bluefeathertech.com
wrote:

Hmm! Hadn't heard that... Any other Atmel DIPs among the AVR family
you'd suggest?
 
Thanks.
 
 *** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***
 
 On 15-Dec-10 at 18:44 Eric Garner wrote:
 
 You may want to avoid the 328p. for the last year there have been
supply
 problems to the distributors. 
 
 -eric
 
 Sent from my Banana jr (tm) Mobile Device
 
 On Dec 15, 2010, at 6:23 PM, Bruce Lane
kyr...@bluefeathertech.com
 wrote:
 
   In fact, I was looking very hard at the 328P. AND I just happen to
 have an STK500 on the way from the east coast (thanks to an Ebay
purchase).
 
   Already got AVR Studio installed, and I also have IAR's AVR
package
 standing by. In short, I've got plenty to learn with.
 
   And you're right. I'll be learning both C and AVR assembler as I
go
 along, but the way I learn best is to actually DO something with
 programming rather than just taking abstract example problems.
 
   Banzai! ;-)
 
 *** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***
 
 On 14-Dec-10 at 22:37 John Miles wrote:
 
 Fellow clock-tickers,
 
   I'm finally starting to learn microcontrollers, and have
 selected Atmel's AVR line as my tool of choice. I've also
 discovered the Arduino site, and am starting to learn their IDE as
 well.
 
   My first goal will be an open-source/open-hardware IRIG-B
 decoder (takes IRIG-B 1kHz stream, sends the timecode to an LCD
 panel). I've noticed a distinct lack of hobby-priced decoders on
 the market, and I intend to try and remedy that.
 
   My initial development platform will be the Arduino
 Mega-2560 board. However, that particular microcontroller is
 unlikely to be my final chip of choice due to the fact it's not
 available in a hobbyist-friendly DIP package. If others with more
 development skill have suggestions for a different chip, I will
 gladly listen.
 
   Stay tuned for further developments (no pun intended). I
 expect this to take at least a few months, as the learning curve
 looks kind of steep.
 
 That's a good family of parts to start out with.  It is very well
 supported
 and easy to work with.  You don't really need to mess with the
Arduino
 IDE
 and all the trimmings -- just set up AVR-GCC with WinAVR or one of
the
 newer
 distributions and go from there.  If you have ever done any C
 programming
 before, the learning curve will be measured in hours or days, not
 months.
 If you haven't, well... there's always assembly.
 
 There is a new low-cost kit with Arduino-like USB programming
 capability on
 the market:

http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/usnoobie-kit-p-708.html?cPath=104_128
 
 The first batch of these shipped with broken bootloader code so you
 have to
 have an STK-500 or similar programmer to get them up and running.
I
 imagine
 that's been fixed by now, but at any rate, the Atmega328P is
probably
 the
 chip you want, if you want a higher-end AVR controller that still
comes
 in
 a
 DIP.
 
 I just rigged one of them up to drive a YIG synthesizer:
 http://www.thegleam.com/ke5fx/stellex.htm (see December 2010 update
at
 the
 very bottom of the page).  Apart from the USB bootloader confusion
and
 the
 presence of a couple of spurious error/warning messages in the
 avrdude.exe
 programmer utility, I'd give it two thumbs up at a minimum.  Great
 little
 device.
 
 -- john, KE5FX
 
 
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 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
 Bruce Lane, Owner  Head Hardware Heavy,
 Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com
 kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m
 Quid Malmborg in Plano...
 
 
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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B with Arduino

[Darrell]

You've probably already discovered this site, but in case you or others 
haven't, I get my Arduino goodies from here -


http://www.adafruit.com/

and a related site -

http://www.ladyada.net/

I've ordered twice and it was quick and easy to Canada

Darrell

On 10-12-14 10:19 PM, Bruce Lane wrote:

Fellow clock-tickers,

I'm finally starting to learn microcontrollers, and have selected 
Atmel's AVR line as my tool of choice. I've also discovered the Arduino site, 
and am starting to learn their IDE as well.

My first goal will be an open-source/open-hardware IRIG-B decoder 
(takes IRIG-B 1kHz stream, sends the timecode to an LCD panel). I've noticed a 
distinct lack of hobby-priced decoders on the market, and I intend to try and 
remedy that.

My initial development platform will be the Arduino Mega-2560 board. 
However, that particular microcontroller is unlikely to be my final chip of 
choice due to the fact it's not available in a hobbyist-friendly DIP package. 
If others with more development skill have suggestions for a different chip, I 
will gladly listen.

Stay tuned for further developments (no pun intended). I expect this to 
take at least a few months, as the learning curve looks kind of steep.


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner  Head Hardware Heavy,
Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com
kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m
Quid Malmborg in Plano...


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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B with Arduino

[Eric Garner]

FWIW, if you're looking for a cheap, very capable AVR dev board. i've
had very good success with the Teensy. You can use AVR-GCC or
assembler but it has an Arduino compatibility layer if thats your
thing.

http://pjrc.com/teensy/index.html

they're cheap and easy to work with, US made, and have great support
and example code, and is breadboard/through hole friendly


-Eric


On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 10:19 PM, Bruce Lane kyr...@bluefeathertech.com wrote:
 Fellow clock-tickers,

        I'm finally starting to learn microcontrollers, and have selected 
 Atmel's AVR line as my tool of choice. I've also discovered the Arduino site, 
 and am starting to learn their IDE as well.

        My first goal will be an open-source/open-hardware IRIG-B decoder 
 (takes IRIG-B 1kHz stream, sends the timecode to an LCD panel). I've noticed 
 a distinct lack of hobby-priced decoders on the market, and I intend to try 
 and remedy that.

        My initial development platform will be the Arduino Mega-2560 board. 
 However, that particular microcontroller is unlikely to be my final chip of 
 choice due to the fact it's not available in a hobbyist-friendly DIP package. 
 If others with more development skill have suggestions for a different chip, 
 I will gladly listen.

        Stay tuned for further developments (no pun intended). I expect this 
 to take at least a few months, as the learning curve looks kind of steep.


 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
 Bruce Lane, Owner  Head Hardware Heavy,
 Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com
 kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m
 Quid Malmborg in Plano...


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-- 
--Eric
_
Eric Garner

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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B with Arduino

[Bruce Lane]

In fact, I was looking very hard at the 328P. AND I just happen to have 
an STK500 on the way from the east coast (thanks to an Ebay purchase).

Already got AVR Studio installed, and I also have IAR's AVR package 
standing by. In short, I've got plenty to learn with.

And you're right. I'll be learning both C and AVR assembler as I go 
along, but the way I learn best is to actually DO something with programming 
rather than just taking abstract example problems.

Banzai! ;-)

*** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***

On 14-Dec-10 at 22:37 John Miles wrote:

 Fellow clock-tickers,

  I'm finally starting to learn microcontrollers, and have
 selected Atmel's AVR line as my tool of choice. I've also
 discovered the Arduino site, and am starting to learn their IDE as well.

  My first goal will be an open-source/open-hardware IRIG-B
 decoder (takes IRIG-B 1kHz stream, sends the timecode to an LCD
 panel). I've noticed a distinct lack of hobby-priced decoders on
 the market, and I intend to try and remedy that.

  My initial development platform will be the Arduino
 Mega-2560 board. However, that particular microcontroller is
 unlikely to be my final chip of choice due to the fact it's not
 available in a hobbyist-friendly DIP package. If others with more
 development skill have suggestions for a different chip, I will
 gladly listen.

  Stay tuned for further developments (no pun intended). I
 expect this to take at least a few months, as the learning curve
 looks kind of steep.

That's a good family of parts to start out with.  It is very well supported
and easy to work with.  You don't really need to mess with the Arduino IDE
and all the trimmings -- just set up AVR-GCC with WinAVR or one of the
newer
distributions and go from there.  If you have ever done any C programming
before, the learning curve will be measured in hours or days, not months.
If you haven't, well... there's always assembly.

There is a new low-cost kit with Arduino-like USB programming capability on
the market:
http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/usnoobie-kit-p-708.html?cPath=104_128

The first batch of these shipped with broken bootloader code so you have to
have an STK-500 or similar programmer to get them up and running.  I
imagine
that's been fixed by now, but at any rate, the Atmega328P is probably the
chip you want, if you want a higher-end AVR controller that still comes in
a
DIP.

I just rigged one of them up to drive a YIG synthesizer:
http://www.thegleam.com/ke5fx/stellex.htm (see December 2010 update at the
very bottom of the page).  Apart from the USB bootloader confusion and the
presence of a couple of spurious error/warning messages in the avrdude.exe
programmer utility, I'd give it two thumbs up at a minimum.  Great little
device.

-- john, KE5FX


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-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner  Head Hardware Heavy,
Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com
kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m
Quid Malmborg in Plano...


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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B with Arduino

[Bruce Lane]

That's the thing. I don't want to have to rely on PC hardware. I really 
want to make something which is stand-alone, and can be wired to a variety of 
displays.

Keep the peace(es).

*** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***

On 14-Dec-10 at 22:59 Chris Albertson wrote:

If the goal is to learn about AVRs that is a good project.  But if you
want a cheap IRIG decoder I bet you already have one.  An IRIG driver
is included with NTP.  The NTP driver reads the time code from an
audio interface set for 8Khz sample rate.If you are writing a
decoder it might be good to study the NTP source code.  They do good
bit of error checking and averaging and get to microsecond level even
on noisy signals.  But then it runs on an full size 32 or 64 bit
computer  There is also an irig time code generator  in the source
.tar file but it is not compiled by the Makefile, yu have to do that
by hand.  No the IRIG driver is compiled by default

On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 10:19 PM, Bruce Lane kyr...@bluefeathertech.com
wrote:
 Fellow clock-tickers,

        I'm finally starting to learn microcontrollers, and have selected
Atmel's AVR line as my tool of choice. I've also discovered the Arduino
site, and am starting to learn their IDE as well.

        My first goal will be an open-source/open-hardware IRIG-B decoder
(takes IRIG-B 1kHz stream, sends the timecode to an LCD panel). I've
noticed a distinct lack of hobby-priced decoders on the market, and I
intend to try and remedy that.

        My initial development platform will be the Arduino Mega-2560
board. However, that particular microcontroller is unlikely to be my final
chip of choice due to the fact it's not available in a hobbyist-friendly
DIP package. If others with more development skill have suggestions for a
different chip, I will gladly listen.

        Stay tuned for further developments (no pun intended). I expect
this to take at least a few months, as the learning curve looks kind of
steep.


 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
 Bruce Lane, Owner  Head Hardware Heavy,
 Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com
 kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m
 Quid Malmborg in Plano...


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-- 
=
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner  Head Hardware Heavy,
Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com
kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m
Quid Malmborg in Plano...


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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B with Arduino

[Bruce Lane]

Already a bit ahead of you, Don. The Mega just happened to be the one I 
started with. I selected it because I found details online for someone who used 
the Mega to construct a clock which runs from decoding NMEA sentences, and I'm 
using his source code to help me along.

Keep the peace(es).

*** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***

On 14-Dec-10 at 23:59 Don Latham wrote:

Bruce: You may not need the Mega. I started with the arduino in 
duemilanuove, and found that there are chips with the bootloader
available. 
The IDE is actually pretty good, not too steep, and there are libraries 
available for lots of peripherals and lots of sample code. I suggest 
Sparkfun as a source, I have had very satisfactory dealings with them. The 
Due also has piggyback boards called, for some unknown reason shields,
which 
make the construction of small systems very easy.

Don

- Original Message - 
From: Bruce Lane kyr...@bluefeathertech.com
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 11:19 PM
Subject: [time-nuts] IRIG-B with Arduino


 Fellow clock-tickers,

 I'm finally starting to learn microcontrollers, and have selected
Atmel's 
 AVR line as my tool of choice. I've also discovered the Arduino site,
and 
 am starting to learn their IDE as well.

 My first goal will be an open-source/open-hardware IRIG-B decoder (takes 
 IRIG-B 1kHz stream, sends the timecode to an LCD panel). I've noticed a 
 distinct lack of hobby-priced decoders on the market, and I intend to
try 
 and remedy that.

 My initial development platform will be the Arduino Mega-2560 board. 
 However, that particular microcontroller is unlikely to be my final chip 
 of choice due to the fact it's not available in a hobbyist-friendly DIP 
 package. If others with more development skill have suggestions for a 
 different chip, I will gladly listen.

 Stay tuned for further developments (no pun intended). I expect this to 
 take at least a few months, as the learning curve looks kind of steep.


 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
 Bruce Lane, Owner  Head Hardware Heavy,
 Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com
 kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m
 Quid Malmborg in Plano...


 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
 To unsubscribe, go to 
 https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 and follow the instructions there. 


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__ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner  Head Hardware Heavy,
Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com
kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m
Quid Malmborg in Plano...


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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B with Arduino

[Eric Garner]

You may want to avoid the 328p. for the last year there have been supply 
problems to the distributors. 

-eric

Sent from my Banana jr (tm) Mobile Device

On Dec 15, 2010, at 6:23 PM, Bruce Lane kyr...@bluefeathertech.com wrote:

In fact, I was looking very hard at the 328P. AND I just happen to have an 
 STK500 on the way from the east coast (thanks to an Ebay purchase).
 
Already got AVR Studio installed, and I also have IAR's AVR package 
 standing by. In short, I've got plenty to learn with.
 
And you're right. I'll be learning both C and AVR assembler as I go along, 
 but the way I learn best is to actually DO something with programming rather 
 than just taking abstract example problems.
 
Banzai! ;-)
 
 *** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***
 
 On 14-Dec-10 at 22:37 John Miles wrote:
 
 Fellow clock-tickers,
 
I'm finally starting to learn microcontrollers, and have
 selected Atmel's AVR line as my tool of choice. I've also
 discovered the Arduino site, and am starting to learn their IDE as well.
 
My first goal will be an open-source/open-hardware IRIG-B
 decoder (takes IRIG-B 1kHz stream, sends the timecode to an LCD
 panel). I've noticed a distinct lack of hobby-priced decoders on
 the market, and I intend to try and remedy that.
 
My initial development platform will be the Arduino
 Mega-2560 board. However, that particular microcontroller is
 unlikely to be my final chip of choice due to the fact it's not
 available in a hobbyist-friendly DIP package. If others with more
 development skill have suggestions for a different chip, I will
 gladly listen.
 
Stay tuned for further developments (no pun intended). I
 expect this to take at least a few months, as the learning curve
 looks kind of steep.
 
 That's a good family of parts to start out with.  It is very well supported
 and easy to work with.  You don't really need to mess with the Arduino IDE
 and all the trimmings -- just set up AVR-GCC with WinAVR or one of the
 newer
 distributions and go from there.  If you have ever done any C programming
 before, the learning curve will be measured in hours or days, not months.
 If you haven't, well... there's always assembly.
 
 There is a new low-cost kit with Arduino-like USB programming capability on
 the market:
 http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/usnoobie-kit-p-708.html?cPath=104_128
 
 The first batch of these shipped with broken bootloader code so you have to
 have an STK-500 or similar programmer to get them up and running.  I
 imagine
 that's been fixed by now, but at any rate, the Atmega328P is probably the
 chip you want, if you want a higher-end AVR controller that still comes in
 a
 DIP.
 
 I just rigged one of them up to drive a YIG synthesizer:
 http://www.thegleam.com/ke5fx/stellex.htm (see December 2010 update at the
 very bottom of the page).  Apart from the USB bootloader confusion and the
 presence of a couple of spurious error/warning messages in the avrdude.exe
 programmer utility, I'd give it two thumbs up at a minimum.  Great little
 device.
 
 -- john, KE5FX
 
 
 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
 To unsubscribe, go to
 https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 and follow the instructions there.
 
 __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
 signature database 5706 (20101215) __
 
 The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
 
 http://www.eset.com
 
 
 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
 Bruce Lane, Owner  Head Hardware Heavy,
 Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com
 kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m
 Quid Malmborg in Plano...
 
 
 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
 To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B with Arduino

[Bruce Lane]

Hmm! Hadn't heard that... Any other Atmel DIPs among the AVR family 
you'd suggest?

Thanks.

*** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***

On 15-Dec-10 at 18:44 Eric Garner wrote:

You may want to avoid the 328p. for the last year there have been supply
problems to the distributors. 

-eric

Sent from my Banana jr (tm) Mobile Device

On Dec 15, 2010, at 6:23 PM, Bruce Lane kyr...@bluefeathertech.com
wrote:

In fact, I was looking very hard at the 328P. AND I just happen to
have an STK500 on the way from the east coast (thanks to an Ebay purchase).
 
Already got AVR Studio installed, and I also have IAR's AVR package
standing by. In short, I've got plenty to learn with.
 
And you're right. I'll be learning both C and AVR assembler as I go
along, but the way I learn best is to actually DO something with
programming rather than just taking abstract example problems.
 
Banzai! ;-)
 
 *** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***
 
 On 14-Dec-10 at 22:37 John Miles wrote:
 
 Fellow clock-tickers,
 
I'm finally starting to learn microcontrollers, and have
 selected Atmel's AVR line as my tool of choice. I've also
 discovered the Arduino site, and am starting to learn their IDE as
well.
 
My first goal will be an open-source/open-hardware IRIG-B
 decoder (takes IRIG-B 1kHz stream, sends the timecode to an LCD
 panel). I've noticed a distinct lack of hobby-priced decoders on
 the market, and I intend to try and remedy that.
 
My initial development platform will be the Arduino
 Mega-2560 board. However, that particular microcontroller is
 unlikely to be my final chip of choice due to the fact it's not
 available in a hobbyist-friendly DIP package. If others with more
 development skill have suggestions for a different chip, I will
 gladly listen.
 
Stay tuned for further developments (no pun intended). I
 expect this to take at least a few months, as the learning curve
 looks kind of steep.
 
 That's a good family of parts to start out with.  It is very well
supported
 and easy to work with.  You don't really need to mess with the Arduino
IDE
 and all the trimmings -- just set up AVR-GCC with WinAVR or one of the
 newer
 distributions and go from there.  If you have ever done any C
programming
 before, the learning curve will be measured in hours or days, not
months.
 If you haven't, well... there's always assembly.
 
 There is a new low-cost kit with Arduino-like USB programming
capability on
 the market:
 http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/usnoobie-kit-p-708.html?cPath=104_128
 
 The first batch of these shipped with broken bootloader code so you
have to
 have an STK-500 or similar programmer to get them up and running.  I
 imagine
 that's been fixed by now, but at any rate, the Atmega328P is probably
the
 chip you want, if you want a higher-end AVR controller that still comes
in
 a
 DIP.
 
 I just rigged one of them up to drive a YIG synthesizer:
 http://www.thegleam.com/ke5fx/stellex.htm (see December 2010 update at
the
 very bottom of the page).  Apart from the USB bootloader confusion and
the
 presence of a couple of spurious error/warning messages in the
avrdude.exe
 programmer utility, I'd give it two thumbs up at a minimum.  Great
little
 device.
 
 -- john, KE5FX
 
 
 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
 To unsubscribe, go to
 https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 and follow the instructions there.
 
 __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
 signature database 5706 (20101215) __
 
 The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
 
 http://www.eset.com
 
 
 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
 Bruce Lane, Owner  Head Hardware Heavy,
 Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com
 kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m
 Quid Malmborg in Plano...
 
 
 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
 To unsubscribe, go to
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 and follow the instructions there.

___
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To unsubscribe, go to
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and follow the instructions there.

__ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
signature database 5706 (20101215) __

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner  Head Hardware Heavy,
Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com
kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m
Quid Malmborg in Plano...


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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B with Arduino

[Chris Albertson]

On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 6:23 PM, Bruce Lane kyr...@bluefeathertech.com wrote:
        . I'll be learning both C and AVR assembler as I go along, but the 
 way I learn best is to actually DO something with programming ...

I agree with the last part.  Learn by doing some real project.   But
no the first part.  The best platform for learning is a full size
computer with a real OS on it.  Programming a micro-controller s MUCH
harder than programming a LInux desktop machine.  I've done both,
pretty much full time now for 30 years.   In fact if I want to get
something to run on an AVR in C I will write and mostly debug the code
as much as I can on the big Linux computer.  The  there are some
simulators too.  Of course you have to move to the target hardware as
some point but it is always best if you plan the project so that you
can delay that time.
That is one of the major advantages of the AVR over PIC, the AVR works
well with C so you can to more of the work on the bigger computer.
Getting back to the time code project.  Do look at the generator in
NTP.  Run it on the desktop and study the code


-- 
=
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B with Arduino

[Bruce Lane]

I must not have made myself clear. I certainly plan to use the 
development environments on my PC. That is, after all, why I loaded up AVR 
Studio and the IAR packages.

Can you provide a link for the NTP thing you mention?

Thanks.

*** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***

On 15-Dec-10 at 20:27 Chris Albertson wrote:

On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 6:23 PM, Bruce Lane kyr...@bluefeathertech.com
wrote:
        . I'll be learning both C and AVR assembler as I go along,
but the way I learn best is to actually DO something with programming ...

I agree with the last part.  Learn by doing some real project.   But
no the first part.  The best platform for learning is a full size
computer with a real OS on it.  Programming a micro-controller s MUCH
harder than programming a LInux desktop machine.  I've done both,
pretty much full time now for 30 years.   In fact if I want to get
something to run on an AVR in C I will write and mostly debug the code
as much as I can on the big Linux computer.  The  there are some
simulators too.  Of course you have to move to the target hardware as
some point but it is always best if you plan the project so that you
can delay that time.
That is one of the major advantages of the AVR over PIC, the AVR works
well with C so you can to more of the work on the bigger computer.
Getting back to the time code project.  Do look at the generator in
NTP.  Run it on the desktop and study the code


-- 
=
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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__ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
signature database 5706 (20101215) __

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner  Head Hardware Heavy,
Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com
kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m
Quid Malmborg in Plano...


___
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and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B with Arduino

[Eric Garner]

The 168 is it's junior cousin, and it's available. 

Sent from my Banana jr (tm) Mobile Device

On Dec 15, 2010, at 7:21 PM, Bruce Lane kyr...@bluefeathertech.com wrote:

Hmm! Hadn't heard that... Any other Atmel DIPs among the AVR family you'd 
 suggest?
 
Thanks.
 
 *** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***
 
 On 15-Dec-10 at 18:44 Eric Garner wrote:
 
 You may want to avoid the 328p. for the last year there have been supply
 problems to the distributors. 
 
 -eric
 
 Sent from my Banana jr (tm) Mobile Device
 
 On Dec 15, 2010, at 6:23 PM, Bruce Lane kyr...@bluefeathertech.com
 wrote:
 
   In fact, I was looking very hard at the 328P. AND I just happen to
 have an STK500 on the way from the east coast (thanks to an Ebay purchase).
 
   Already got AVR Studio installed, and I also have IAR's AVR package
 standing by. In short, I've got plenty to learn with.
 
   And you're right. I'll be learning both C and AVR assembler as I go
 along, but the way I learn best is to actually DO something with
 programming rather than just taking abstract example problems.
 
   Banzai! ;-)
 
 *** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***
 
 On 14-Dec-10 at 22:37 John Miles wrote:
 
 Fellow clock-tickers,
 
   I'm finally starting to learn microcontrollers, and have
 selected Atmel's AVR line as my tool of choice. I've also
 discovered the Arduino site, and am starting to learn their IDE as
 well.
 
   My first goal will be an open-source/open-hardware IRIG-B
 decoder (takes IRIG-B 1kHz stream, sends the timecode to an LCD
 panel). I've noticed a distinct lack of hobby-priced decoders on
 the market, and I intend to try and remedy that.
 
   My initial development platform will be the Arduino
 Mega-2560 board. However, that particular microcontroller is
 unlikely to be my final chip of choice due to the fact it's not
 available in a hobbyist-friendly DIP package. If others with more
 development skill have suggestions for a different chip, I will
 gladly listen.
 
   Stay tuned for further developments (no pun intended). I
 expect this to take at least a few months, as the learning curve
 looks kind of steep.
 
 That's a good family of parts to start out with.  It is very well
 supported
 and easy to work with.  You don't really need to mess with the Arduino
 IDE
 and all the trimmings -- just set up AVR-GCC with WinAVR or one of the
 newer
 distributions and go from there.  If you have ever done any C
 programming
 before, the learning curve will be measured in hours or days, not
 months.
 If you haven't, well... there's always assembly.
 
 There is a new low-cost kit with Arduino-like USB programming
 capability on
 the market:
 http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/usnoobie-kit-p-708.html?cPath=104_128
 
 The first batch of these shipped with broken bootloader code so you
 have to
 have an STK-500 or similar programmer to get them up and running.  I
 imagine
 that's been fixed by now, but at any rate, the Atmega328P is probably
 the
 chip you want, if you want a higher-end AVR controller that still comes
 in
 a
 DIP.
 
 I just rigged one of them up to drive a YIG synthesizer:
 http://www.thegleam.com/ke5fx/stellex.htm (see December 2010 update at
 the
 very bottom of the page).  Apart from the USB bootloader confusion and
 the
 presence of a couple of spurious error/warning messages in the
 avrdude.exe
 programmer utility, I'd give it two thumbs up at a minimum.  Great
 little
 device.
 
 -- john, KE5FX
 
 
 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
 To unsubscribe, go to
 https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 and follow the instructions there.
 
 __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
 signature database 5706 (20101215) __
 
 The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
 
 http://www.eset.com
 
 
 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
 Bruce Lane, Owner  Head Hardware Heavy,
 Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com
 kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m
 Quid Malmborg in Plano...
 
 
 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
 To unsubscribe, go to
 https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 and follow the instructions there.
 
 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
 To unsubscribe, go to
 https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 and follow the instructions there.
 
 __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
 signature database 5706 (20101215) __
 
 The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
 
 http://www.eset.com
 
 
 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
 Bruce Lane, Owner  Head Hardware Heavy,
 Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com
 kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m
 Quid Malmborg in Plano...
 
 
 ___
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 To unsubscribe, go to 

Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B with Arduino

[Chris Albertson]

Loks like I need to make myself clear also.  Sorry.  When I said
develop on the desktop I meant for a desktop target.  Writing code
this is to run on the desktop is far easier then wrioting code that is
to run in a micro controller.  Of course in both cases to type and
edit using ther desktop machine.

I have programmed micros using toggle switches and push buttons to
directly load in binary code bit by bit put that gets old real quick
but that was the way it was done.

So to be redundant.  The best way to learn programming in C is to do
so by writing for a simple and easy to use target execution
environment.  The simplest is a command line terminal

You can find the source code for NTP at
http://www.ntp.org/downloads.html
un tar the file into somedir and then look at
...somedir/ntp-4.2.6p2/ntp/refclock_irig.b
and in there is the code to read IRIG and also some good comments that
explain both irig and how to decode it.
This code samples the irig signal 8,000 times per second and does the
demodulation in software.
It also does to ntp stuff that you don't need to care about

The other file is in the utils directory and is a time code
generator used mostly for testing decoders

On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 8:46 PM, Bruce Lane kyr...@bluefeathertech.com wrote:
        I must not have made myself clear. I certainly plan to use the 
 development environments on my PC. That is, after all, why I loaded up AVR 
 Studio and the IAR packages.

        Can you provide a link for the NTP thing you mention?

        Thanks.

 *** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***

 On 15-Dec-10 at 20:27 Chris Albertson wrote:

On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 6:23 PM, Bruce Lane kyr...@bluefeathertech.com
wrote:
        . I'll be learning both C and AVR assembler as I go along,
but the way I learn best is to actually DO something with programming ...

I agree with the last part.  Learn by doing some real project.   But
no the first part.  The best platform for learning is a full size
computer with a real OS on it.  Programming a micro-controller s MUCH
harder than programming a LInux desktop machine.  I've done both,
pretty much full time now for 30 years.   In fact if I want to get
something to run on an AVR in C I will write and mostly debug the code
as much as I can on the big Linux computer.  The  there are some
simulators too.  Of course you have to move to the target hardware as
some point but it is always best if you plan the project so that you
can delay that time.
That is one of the major advantages of the AVR over PIC, the AVR works
well with C so you can to more of the work on the bigger computer.
Getting back to the time code project.  Do look at the generator in
NTP.  Run it on the desktop and study the code


--
=
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

__ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
signature database 5706 (20101215) __

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com


 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
 Bruce Lane, Owner  Head Hardware Heavy,
 Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com
 kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m
 Quid Malmborg in Plano...


 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
 To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 and follow the instructions there.




-- 
=
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B with Arduino

[Bruce Lane]

Thanks, Chris. Between that and what I've found already, I think this 
is very do-able.

Keep the peace(es).

*** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***

On 15-Dec-10 at 21:52 Chris Albertson wrote:

Loks like I need to make myself clear also.  Sorry.  When I said
develop on the desktop I meant for a desktop target.  Writing code
this is to run on the desktop is far easier then wrioting code that is
to run in a micro controller.  Of course in both cases to type and
edit using ther desktop machine.

I have programmed micros using toggle switches and push buttons to
directly load in binary code bit by bit put that gets old real quick
but that was the way it was done.

So to be redundant.  The best way to learn programming in C is to do
so by writing for a simple and easy to use target execution
environment.  The simplest is a command line terminal

You can find the source code for NTP at
http://www.ntp.org/downloads.html
un tar the file into somedir and then look at
...somedir/ntp-4.2.6p2/ntp/refclock_irig.b
and in there is the code to read IRIG and also some good comments that
explain both irig and how to decode it.
This code samples the irig signal 8,000 times per second and does the
demodulation in software.
It also does to ntp stuff that you don't need to care about

The other file is in the utils directory and is a time code
generator used mostly for testing decoders

On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 8:46 PM, Bruce Lane kyr...@bluefeathertech.com
wrote:
        I must not have made myself clear. I certainly plan to use the
development environments on my PC. That is, after all, why I loaded up AVR
Studio and the IAR packages.

        Can you provide a link for the NTP thing you mention?

        Thanks.

 *** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***

 On 15-Dec-10 at 20:27 Chris Albertson wrote:

On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 6:23 PM, Bruce Lane kyr...@bluefeathertech.com
wrote:
        . I'll be learning both C and AVR assembler as I go along,
but the way I learn best is to actually DO something with programming ...

I agree with the last part.  Learn by doing some real project.   But
no the first part.  The best platform for learning is a full size
computer with a real OS on it.  Programming a micro-controller s MUCH
harder than programming a LInux desktop machine.  I've done both,
pretty much full time now for 30 years.   In fact if I want to get
something to run on an AVR in C I will write and mostly debug the code
as much as I can on the big Linux computer.  The  there are some
simulators too.  Of course you have to move to the target hardware as
some point but it is always best if you plan the project so that you
can delay that time.
That is one of the major advantages of the AVR over PIC, the AVR works
well with C so you can to more of the work on the bigger computer.
Getting back to the time code project.  Do look at the generator in
NTP.  Run it on the desktop and study the code


--
=
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
 Bruce Lane, Owner  Head Hardware Heavy,
 Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com
 kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m
 Quid Malmborg in Plano...


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Quid Malmborg in Plano...


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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B with Arduino

[John Miles]

 Fellow clock-tickers,

   I'm finally starting to learn microcontrollers, and have
 selected Atmel's AVR line as my tool of choice. I've also
 discovered the Arduino site, and am starting to learn their IDE as well.

   My first goal will be an open-source/open-hardware IRIG-B
 decoder (takes IRIG-B 1kHz stream, sends the timecode to an LCD
 panel). I've noticed a distinct lack of hobby-priced decoders on
 the market, and I intend to try and remedy that.

   My initial development platform will be the Arduino
 Mega-2560 board. However, that particular microcontroller is
 unlikely to be my final chip of choice due to the fact it's not
 available in a hobbyist-friendly DIP package. If others with more
 development skill have suggestions for a different chip, I will
 gladly listen.

   Stay tuned for further developments (no pun intended). I
 expect this to take at least a few months, as the learning curve
 looks kind of steep.

That's a good family of parts to start out with.  It is very well supported
and easy to work with.  You don't really need to mess with the Arduino IDE
and all the trimmings -- just set up AVR-GCC with WinAVR or one of the newer
distributions and go from there.  If you have ever done any C programming
before, the learning curve will be measured in hours or days, not months.
If you haven't, well... there's always assembly.

There is a new low-cost kit with Arduino-like USB programming capability on
the market:
http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/usnoobie-kit-p-708.html?cPath=104_128

The first batch of these shipped with broken bootloader code so you have to
have an STK-500 or similar programmer to get them up and running.  I imagine
that's been fixed by now, but at any rate, the Atmega328P is probably the
chip you want, if you want a higher-end AVR controller that still comes in a
DIP.

I just rigged one of them up to drive a YIG synthesizer:
http://www.thegleam.com/ke5fx/stellex.htm (see December 2010 update at the
very bottom of the page).  Apart from the USB bootloader confusion and the
presence of a couple of spurious error/warning messages in the avrdude.exe
programmer utility, I'd give it two thumbs up at a minimum.  Great little
device.

-- john, KE5FX


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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B with Arduino

[Don Latham]

Bruce: You may not need the Mega. I started with the arduino in 
duemilanuove, and found that there are chips with the bootloader available. 
The IDE is actually pretty good, not too steep, and there are libraries 
available for lots of peripherals and lots of sample code. I suggest 
Sparkfun as a source, I have had very satisfactory dealings with them. The 
Due also has piggyback boards called, for some unknown reason shields, which 
make the construction of small systems very easy.


Don

- Original Message - 
From: Bruce Lane kyr...@bluefeathertech.com

To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 11:19 PM
Subject: [time-nuts] IRIG-B with Arduino



Fellow clock-tickers,

I'm finally starting to learn microcontrollers, and have selected Atmel's 
AVR line as my tool of choice. I've also discovered the Arduino site, and 
am starting to learn their IDE as well.


My first goal will be an open-source/open-hardware IRIG-B decoder (takes 
IRIG-B 1kHz stream, sends the timecode to an LCD panel). I've noticed a 
distinct lack of hobby-priced decoders on the market, and I intend to try 
and remedy that.


My initial development platform will be the Arduino Mega-2560 board. 
However, that particular microcontroller is unlikely to be my final chip 
of choice due to the fact it's not available in a hobbyist-friendly DIP 
package. If others with more development skill have suggestions for a 
different chip, I will gladly listen.


Stay tuned for further developments (no pun intended). I expect this to 
take at least a few months, as the learning curve looks kind of steep.



-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner  Head Hardware Heavy,
Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com
kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m
Quid Malmborg in Plano...


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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B with Arduino

[Chris Albertson]

If the goal is to learn about AVRs that is a good project.  But if you
want a cheap IRIG decoder I bet you already have one.  An IRIG driver
is included with NTP.  The NTP driver reads the time code from an
audio interface set for 8Khz sample rate.If you are writing a
decoder it might be good to study the NTP source code.  They do good
bit of error checking and averaging and get to microsecond level even
on noisy signals.  But then it runs on an full size 32 or 64 bit
computer  There is also an irig time code generator  in the source
.tar file but it is not compiled by the Makefile, yu have to do that
by hand.  No the IRIG driver is compiled by default

On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 10:19 PM, Bruce Lane kyr...@bluefeathertech.com wrote:
 Fellow clock-tickers,

        I'm finally starting to learn microcontrollers, and have selected 
 Atmel's AVR line as my tool of choice. I've also discovered the Arduino site, 
 and am starting to learn their IDE as well.

        My first goal will be an open-source/open-hardware IRIG-B decoder 
 (takes IRIG-B 1kHz stream, sends the timecode to an LCD panel). I've noticed 
 a distinct lack of hobby-priced decoders on the market, and I intend to try 
 and remedy that.

        My initial development platform will be the Arduino Mega-2560 board. 
 However, that particular microcontroller is unlikely to be my final chip of 
 choice due to the fact it's not available in a hobbyist-friendly DIP package. 
 If others with more development skill have suggestions for a different chip, 
 I will gladly listen.

        Stay tuned for further developments (no pun intended). I expect this 
 to take at least a few months, as the learning curve looks kind of steep.


 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
 Bruce Lane, Owner  Head Hardware Heavy,
 Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com
 kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m
 Quid Malmborg in Plano...


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-- 
=
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B

[Don Latham]

Could probably do it all with a Propeller.
Don

- Original Message - 
From: jimlux jim...@earthlink.net
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
time-nuts@febo.com

Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 9:36 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B



Bob Camp wrote:

Hi

Audio codecs (especially monophonic ones) are pretty cheap these days.
Depending on volume they can get to the sub $1 range. Even in small 
quantity
they are below $4. That makes them a pretty tempting front end for a 
send

/ receive box.

Bob




i would think, given that the audio carrier is 1kHz-ish, that almost any 
of the small microcontrollers would work, using a single bit in/out with 
some RC signal conditioning.  Maybe a bit of a challenge for the receive.. 
you'd need two inputs with different resistors.


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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B

[Hal Murray]

 Could probably do it all with a Propeller.

That sounds like an invitation for a contest.

What would be the output to indicate success?
  PPS?
  Disciplined 10 MHz?
  Time in ASCII, LEDs, LCD, ...?

How would you score things?
  Cost?
Say list price for key parts at qty 1000
Ignore power, PCB, connectors, debugging stuff...
  Multiply or adder for RMS error or area under an ADEV plot from A to B?




-- 
These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's.  I hate spam.




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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B

[Bob Camp]

Hi

Strange as it seems, *stocking* the R's and C's can be an issue. There's also 
placement cost. Based on some of the numbers you see, the cross over point (IC 
to odd value R's and C's) is amazingly low. I'm not saying any of that's right, 
just that it's the way a lot of companies roll up the costs. 

Bob

 
On May 25, 2010, at 11:50 PM, jimlux wrote:

 Magnus Danielson wrote:
 On 05/26/2010 01:09 AM, Bob Camp wrote:
 Hi
 
 Like all the rest of us I'm making assumptions. I *assume* that we're 
 talking about an implementation that will handle IRIG over audio over a 
 fairly wide dynamic range.
 Well, like most cases, I'd assume it is over sufficient dynamic range. The 
 signal itself doesn't require very high dynamics, 8 bit should work well, 12 
 bits should allow for less care in level settings, 24 bits is excessive but 
 cheap and only real care is high amplitude/clipping.
 
 
 if you've got a low speed ADC, (perhaps on the chip) that's one way to go.  
 You can also do stuff like use a output pin from the micro and some 
 resistor/capacitor stuff to do a CVSD encoder, which you can pretty easily 
 turn into the level data you need to decode the IRIG.
 
 At some point, though, the Rs and Cs cost enough (in board space and 
 installation cost, if nothing else) that you might as well get a ADC (or a 
 bigger uC that has one on chip)..
 
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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B

[Morris Odell]

I have done this with an AVR microcontroller and it turned out to be very
easy. Just program one output to generate a 1 KHz carrier and another to
modulate the amplitude using a resistive divider. A simple LPF will knock
the edges off the carrier and not affect the timing accuracy too much.

Receive is easy too if you have a micro with a comparator which can tell the
difference between the two amplitude levels. I would extract the carrier
first and feed it to another input of the micro to provide a phase reference
and then do the decoding all in firmware.

Morris

 
 
 i would think, given that the audio carrier is 1kHz-ish, that almost
 any
 of the small microcontrollers would work, using a single bit in/out
 with
 some RC signal conditioning.  Maybe a bit of a challenge for the
 receive.. you'd need two inputs with different resistors.
 


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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B

[jimlux]

Bob Camp wrote:

Hi

Strange as it seems, *stocking* the R's and C's can be an issue. There's also placement cost. Based on some of the numbers you see, the cross over point (IC to odd value R's and C's) is amazingly low. I'm not saying any of that's right, just that it's the way a lot of companies roll up the costs. 


Bob


Not surprising.. the cost to stock, pick, place, solder is probably the 
same for a small IC and a R or C.  So, the only possible saving would be 
 if the IC is a LOT more expensive than a single or two Rs or Cs.


There might be a power dissipation difference, or a temperature range 
difference that would push you one way or another.


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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B

[Robert Atkinson]

A good example is the good old 555 timer. A cmos 55 is 41 cents and needs a 
timing cap and resistor. A pic10f200 is 31 cents and needs no support 
components. You can also do fancy timing with the pic. I hate to say it but 
there is really no contest once you have the tools (free complier and a 
programmer for $50). Just a shame it's killing analog skills.
 
Robert G8RPI. 

--- On Wed, 26/5/10, jimlux jim...@earthlink.net wrote:


From: jimlux jim...@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com
Date: Wednesday, 26 May, 2010, 14:16


Bob Camp wrote:
 Hi
 
 Strange as it seems, *stocking* the R's and C's can be an issue. There's also 
 placement cost. Based on some of the numbers you see, the cross over point 
 (IC to odd value R's and C's) is amazingly low. I'm not saying any of that's 
 right, just that it's the way a lot of companies roll up the costs. 
 Bob
 
 
Not surprising.. the cost to stock, pick, place, solder is probably the same 
for a small IC and a R or C.  So, the only possible saving would be  if the IC 
is a LOT more expensive than a single or two Rs or Cs.

There might be a power dissipation difference, or a temperature range 
difference that would push you one way or another.

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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B

[Rob Kimberley]

Hello Clive.

I believe that Meinberg may have something. Take a look at the link below:-

http://www.pcidatabase.com/vendor_details.php?id=1623

Hope all going well.

Rob Kimberley

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Clive Green
Sent: 25 May 2010 9:08 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] IRIG B

Can anyone help with a modern IRIG B chipset manufacturer

Many thanks

Clive Green

 

Quartzlock 

+ Gothic, Plymouth Road, Totnes, Devon. TQ9 5LH England

(: +44 (0) 1803 862 062 7: +44 (0) 1803 867 962

š:  mailto:n...@quartzlock.com cgr...@quartzlock.com ü:
http://www.quartzlock.com www.quartzlock.com

Skype: clive.green.skype Messenger: cgr...@quartzlock.com

Registered office: Gothic, Plymouth Road, Totnes, Devon. TQ9 5LH England
Registered in England

 

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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B

[Hal Murray]

 Can anyone help with a modern IRIG B chipset manufacturer

Send or receive?

The ntp package has software for both sides using PC audio cards.

-- 
These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's.  I hate spam.




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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B

[Bob Camp]

Hi

For full send / receive in hardware it looks like a grab a FPGA and codec 
sort of thing. Might be able to do it with a micro depending on the performance 
level. 

Bob

On May 25, 2010, at 4:08 AM, Clive Green wrote:

 Can anyone help with a modern IRIG B chipset manufacturer
 
 Many thanks
 
 Clive Green
 
 
 
 Quartzlock 
 
 + Gothic, Plymouth Road, Totnes, Devon. TQ9 5LH England
 
 (: +44 (0) 1803 862 062 7: +44 (0) 1803 867 962
 
 š:  mailto:n...@quartzlock.com cgr...@quartzlock.com ü:
 http://www.quartzlock.com www.quartzlock.com
 
 Skype: clive.green.skype Messenger: cgr...@quartzlock.com
 
 Registered office: Gothic, Plymouth Road, Totnes, Devon. TQ9 5LH England
 Registered in England
 
 
 
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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B

[jimlux]

Clive Green wrote:

Can anyone help with a modern IRIG B chipset manufacturer



I didn't know that there was such a thing, even in ancient times, much 
less modern.  All I've seen are designs made of discretes or programmed 
in a microcontroller or FPGA.


Are you looking for a IRIG generator or receiver.  DC or modulated on audio?

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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B

[Dean Weiten]

Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 09:08:18 +0100
From: Clive Green cgr...@quartzlock.com
Subject: [time-nuts] IRIG B
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Message-ID: 000d01cafbe1$6f6788b0$4e369a...@com
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=iso-8859-2

Can anyone help with a modern IRIG B chipset manufacturer

Many thanks

Clive Green

--

Hi Clive and the group.

I can't give you a lead on an ready-made chipset, but I've implemented an 
IRIG-B decoder in a 68HC11 and in an 68HCS12.  I found the difficult part to be 
the analog section, as it can introduce significant uncertainties in the timing 
stream, especially in a modulated signal.  We got ours down to around 10 uSec 
which we considered quite good.  Of course the 5 volt logic levels of the 
unmodulated signal makes it easier to get better accuracy.

The IRIG-B decoder work I did was implemented on power systems relays  
disturbance recorders several years ago, then I left the company and in the 
meantime, they changed over to an FPGA implementation and skipped the processor 
altogether.  Now I'm back with that same company (although ownership has 
changed), but I haven't yet had a chat with the new FPGA designer to find out 
how he did it :-)

I've also tweaked and upgraded (well in my opinion) the TG program of the NTP 
package, which generates WWV(H) and IRIG-B audio signals in *NIX operating 
systems.  It was targeted for the Sun Sparc and I moved it to OSS audio which 
was what I was using on X86 GNU/LINUX at the time.  I think I submitted it for 
inclusion in the NTP package but I don't think it ever got in there; I used to 
claim that it was rejected, but then again it's also possible that I didn't 
submit it correctly.  I can give this to you if you would like.

If you would advise on your application and parametric requirements, perhaps I 
(or someone else on the mailing list) could make further suggestion or help 
directly.

-- 

Dean Weiten


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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B

[jimlux]

Hal Murray wrote:

Can anyone help with a modern IRIG B chipset manufacturer


Send or receive?

The ntp package has software for both sides using PC audio cards.



I've been looking for an open-source IRIG B or E reader for FPGA use.

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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B

[Stanley Reynolds]

Example of IRIG-B generator and decoder implemented in LabVIEW FPGA:

http://zone.ni.com/devzone/cda/epd/p/id/3396

Stanley

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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B

[jimlux]

Stanley Reynolds wrote:


Example of IRIG-B generator and decoder implemented in LabVIEW FPGA:

http://zone.ni.com/devzone/cda/epd/p/id/3396




Thanks,
I was looking for something in VHDL or Verilog... I'm not sure how well 
the Labview RIO, etc. stuff ports to non-Labview environments, but I'll 
ask some Labview gurus about this one.


Thanks again
Jim

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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B

[Bob Camp]

Hi

Audio codecs (especially monophonic ones) are pretty cheap these days.
Depending on volume they can get to the sub $1 range. Even in small quantity
they are below $4. That makes them a pretty tempting front end for a send
/ receive box.

Bob

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Dean Weiten
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 9:05 AM
To: cgr...@quartzlock.com
Cc: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B

Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 09:08:18 +0100
From: Clive Green cgr...@quartzlock.com
Subject: [time-nuts] IRIG B
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Message-ID: 000d01cafbe1$6f6788b0$4e369a...@com
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=iso-8859-2

Can anyone help with a modern IRIG B chipset manufacturer

Many thanks

Clive Green

--

Hi Clive and the group.

I can't give you a lead on an ready-made chipset, but I've implemented an
IRIG-B decoder in a 68HC11 and in an 68HCS12.  I found the difficult part to
be the analog section, as it can introduce significant uncertainties in the
timing stream, especially in a modulated signal.  We got ours down to around
10 uSec which we considered quite good.  Of course the 5 volt logic levels
of the unmodulated signal makes it easier to get better accuracy.

The IRIG-B decoder work I did was implemented on power systems relays 
disturbance recorders several years ago, then I left the company and in the
meantime, they changed over to an FPGA implementation and skipped the
processor altogether.  Now I'm back with that same company (although
ownership has changed), but I haven't yet had a chat with the new FPGA
designer to find out how he did it :-)

I've also tweaked and upgraded (well in my opinion) the TG program of the
NTP package, which generates WWV(H) and IRIG-B audio signals in *NIX
operating systems.  It was targeted for the Sun Sparc and I moved it to OSS
audio which was what I was using on X86 GNU/LINUX at the time.  I think I
submitted it for inclusion in the NTP package but I don't think it ever got
in there; I used to claim that it was rejected, but then again it's also
possible that I didn't submit it correctly.  I can give this to you if you
would like.

If you would advise on your application and parametric requirements, perhaps
I (or someone else on the mailing list) could make further suggestion or
help directly.

-- 

Dean Weiten


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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B

[Don Latham]

16 bit audio interfaces with USB adapters (cheap sound cards) are
available made in the old country for less than ten inflated rasbuckniks
on epray...
Don

Bob Camp
 Hi

 Audio codecs (especially monophonic ones) are pretty cheap these days.
 Depending on volume they can get to the sub $1 range. Even in small
 quantity
 they are below $4. That makes them a pretty tempting front end for a
 send
 / receive box.

 Bob

 -Original Message-
 From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
 Behalf Of Dean Weiten
 Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 9:05 AM
 To: cgr...@quartzlock.com
 Cc: time-nuts@febo.com
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B

 Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 09:08:18 +0100
 From: Clive Green cgr...@quartzlock.com
 Subject: [time-nuts] IRIG B
 To: time-nuts@febo.com
 Message-ID: 000d01cafbe1$6f6788b0$4e369a...@com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2

 Can anyone help with a modern IRIG B chipset manufacturer

 Many thanks

 Clive Green

 --

 Hi Clive and the group.

 I can't give you a lead on an ready-made chipset, but I've implemented an
 IRIG-B decoder in a 68HC11 and in an 68HCS12.  I found the difficult part
 to
 be the analog section, as it can introduce significant uncertainties in
 the
 timing stream, especially in a modulated signal.  We got ours down to
 around
 10 uSec which we considered quite good.  Of course the 5 volt logic levels
 of the unmodulated signal makes it easier to get better accuracy.

 The IRIG-B decoder work I did was implemented on power systems relays 
 disturbance recorders several years ago, then I left the company and in
 the
 meantime, they changed over to an FPGA implementation and skipped the
 processor altogether.  Now I'm back with that same company (although
 ownership has changed), but I haven't yet had a chat with the new FPGA
 designer to find out how he did it :-)

 I've also tweaked and upgraded (well in my opinion) the TG program of
 the
 NTP package, which generates WWV(H) and IRIG-B audio signals in *NIX
 operating systems.  It was targeted for the Sun Sparc and I moved it to
 OSS
 audio which was what I was using on X86 GNU/LINUX at the time.  I think I
 submitted it for inclusion in the NTP package but I don't think it ever
 got
 in there; I used to claim that it was rejected, but then again it's also
 possible that I didn't submit it correctly.  I can give this to you if you
 would like.

 If you would advise on your application and parametric requirements,
 perhaps
 I (or someone else on the mailing list) could make further suggestion or
 help directly.

 --

 Dean Weiten


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-- 
Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are
as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind.
R. Bacon


Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
Six Mile Systems LLP
17850 Six Mile Road
POB 134
Huson, MT, 59846
VOX 406-626-4304
www.lightningforensics.com
www.sixmilesystems.com


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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B

[Hal Murray]

 For full send / receive in hardware it looks like a grab a FPGA and codec
 sort of thing. Might be able to do it with a micro depending on the
 performance level.  

It doesn't take a lot of CPU.

I have a 433 MHz AMD Geode (i386 clone) running ntpd's IRIG decoder.  Top 
says the CPU usage bounces around a lot.  Typical large samples are 2.3%.  
Round that up and we are talking 20 MHz.  It would be fun to get it running 
an an ARM and see how slow it could go.  (Or pick your favorite embedded CPU.)

-- 
These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's.  I hate spam.




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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B

[Hal Murray]

 Audio codecs (especially monophonic ones) are pretty cheap these days.
 Depending on volume they can get to the sub $1 range. Even in small quantity
 they are below $4. That makes them a pretty tempting front end for a send /
  receive box. 

I got an interesting education in silicon economics 5-8 years ago.

We were looking for a low cost audio A/D.  A guy from TI suggested using a 
codec and ignoring the other half.  (The idea of throwing away half of a chip 
had never occurred to me.)


-- 
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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B

[Bob Camp]

Hi

I *think* Clive is looking for a chip set to put on a pc board in a product.

Bob

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Don Latham
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 1:20 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B

16 bit audio interfaces with USB adapters (cheap sound cards) are
available made in the old country for less than ten inflated rasbuckniks
on epray...
Don

Bob Camp
 Hi

 Audio codecs (especially monophonic ones) are pretty cheap these days.
 Depending on volume they can get to the sub $1 range. Even in small
 quantity
 they are below $4. That makes them a pretty tempting front end for a
 send
 / receive box.

 Bob

 -Original Message-
 From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
 Behalf Of Dean Weiten
 Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 9:05 AM
 To: cgr...@quartzlock.com
 Cc: time-nuts@febo.com
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B

 Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 09:08:18 +0100
 From: Clive Green cgr...@quartzlock.com
 Subject: [time-nuts] IRIG B
 To: time-nuts@febo.com
 Message-ID: 000d01cafbe1$6f6788b0$4e369a...@com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2

 Can anyone help with a modern IRIG B chipset manufacturer

 Many thanks

 Clive Green

 --

 Hi Clive and the group.

 I can't give you a lead on an ready-made chipset, but I've implemented an
 IRIG-B decoder in a 68HC11 and in an 68HCS12.  I found the difficult part
 to
 be the analog section, as it can introduce significant uncertainties in
 the
 timing stream, especially in a modulated signal.  We got ours down to
 around
 10 uSec which we considered quite good.  Of course the 5 volt logic levels
 of the unmodulated signal makes it easier to get better accuracy.

 The IRIG-B decoder work I did was implemented on power systems relays 
 disturbance recorders several years ago, then I left the company and in
 the
 meantime, they changed over to an FPGA implementation and skipped the
 processor altogether.  Now I'm back with that same company (although
 ownership has changed), but I haven't yet had a chat with the new FPGA
 designer to find out how he did it :-)

 I've also tweaked and upgraded (well in my opinion) the TG program of
 the
 NTP package, which generates WWV(H) and IRIG-B audio signals in *NIX
 operating systems.  It was targeted for the Sun Sparc and I moved it to
 OSS
 audio which was what I was using on X86 GNU/LINUX at the time.  I think I
 submitted it for inclusion in the NTP package but I don't think it ever
 got
 in there; I used to claim that it was rejected, but then again it's also
 possible that I didn't submit it correctly.  I can give this to you if you
 would like.

 If you would advise on your application and parametric requirements,
 perhaps
 I (or someone else on the mailing list) could make further suggestion or
 help directly.

 --

 Dean Weiten


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-- 
Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are
as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind.
R. Bacon


Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
Six Mile Systems LLP
17850 Six Mile Road
POB 134
Huson, MT, 59846
VOX 406-626-4304
www.lightningforensics.com
www.sixmilesystems.com


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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B

[Bob Camp]

Hi

A lot of the codec's talk I2S. That's not a real popular item in the
embedded processor world. If you are already running a FPGA, the IRIG might
fit in the empty part of the chip. You often have to bump up 1.5 or 2:1
when you run out of this or that. 

Bob

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Hal Murray
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 2:50 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B


 The IRIG-B decoder work I did was implemented on power systems relays 
 disturbance recorders several years ago, then I left the company and in
the
 meantime, they changed over to an FPGA implementation and skipped the
 processor altogether.  Now I'm back with that same company (although
 ownership has changed), but I haven't yet had a chat with the new FPGA
 designer to find out how he did it :-)

Interesting.  I'd like to know why they switched to FPGA.

I thought the consensus in the FPGA world was that if you could do it in 
software that was probably the better way to go.  The main idea is that it's

easier to hire programmers than FPGA designers.

I'd expect silicon costs to be roughly equal.  In a FPGA you are wasting a

lot of silicon for routing.  In a CPU, you are wasting it on instruction 
decoding.  Both are high volume parts riding the crest of Moore's Law.  Of 
course, algorithm details may push you one way or the other.


 I've also tweaked and upgraded (well in my opinion) the TG program of
the
 NTP package, which generates WWV(H) and IRIG-B audio signals in *NIX
 operating systems.  It was targeted for the Sun Sparc and I moved it to
OSS
 audio which was what I was using on X86 GNU/LINUX at the time.  I think I
 submitted it for inclusion in the NTP package but I don't think it ever
got
 in there; I used to claim that it was rejected, but then again it's also
 possible that I didn't submit it correctly.  I can give this to you if you
 would like. 

It's in there.  Thanks.  I called it tg2 because I couldn't test it in the 
Sun world and I wanted to make sure I didn't break anything.

The recipe for getting fixes into the NTP package is pretty simple: find an 
insider who likes your changes.  Mechanically, their bugzilla is at 
https://support.ntp.org/bugs/index.cgi
That tracks enhancements/wishes as well as bugs.  You can upload diffs and 
such.

-- 
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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B

[Bob Camp]

Hi

Like all the rest of us I'm making assumptions. I *assume* that we're talking 
about an implementation that will handle IRIG over audio over a fairly wide 
dynamic range.

Bob


On May 25, 2010, at 6:30 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote:

 On 05/25/2010 11:12 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
 Hi
 
 I *think* Clive is looking for a chip set to put on a pc board in a product.
 
 Me too, but I think the reality is that I don't think there is such a thing 
 except maybe in some early ASICs. Today FPGAs rule that world. The benefit is 
 naturally that functional updates can come cheaply if provision is made for 
 remove firmware updates.:)
 
 The closest I can come up with is maybe WWV receiver chips. But that is 
 IRIG-H and not IRIG-B.
 
 The only reasons for heading down the audio ADC/DAC route over 8-bit is 
 dynamic range and cost. It makes sense for IRIG-B102 signals.
 
 Cheers,
 Magnus
 
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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B

[Magnus Danielson]

On 05/26/2010 01:09 AM, Bob Camp wrote:

Hi

Like all the rest of us I'm making assumptions. I *assume* that we're talking 
about an implementation that will handle IRIG over audio over a fairly wide 
dynamic range.


Well, like most cases, I'd assume it is over sufficient dynamic range. 
The signal itself doesn't require very high dynamics, 8 bit should work 
well, 12 bits should allow for less care in level settings, 24 bits is 
excessive but cheap and only real care is high amplitude/clipping.


Cheers,
Magnus

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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B

[Bob Camp]

Hi

Most of the cheap codecs are 24 bits as advertised and maybe 16 bits as 
measured. 

That puts them in a nice comfort zone a bit past the 10 or 12 bits you get from 
a micro. 

Bob


On May 25, 2010, at 7:23 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote:

 On 05/26/2010 01:09 AM, Bob Camp wrote:
 Hi
 
 Like all the rest of us I'm making assumptions. I *assume* that we're 
 talking about an implementation that will handle IRIG over audio over a 
 fairly wide dynamic range.
 
 Well, like most cases, I'd assume it is over sufficient dynamic range. The 
 signal itself doesn't require very high dynamics, 8 bit should work well, 12 
 bits should allow for less care in level settings, 24 bits is excessive but 
 cheap and only real care is high amplitude/clipping.
 
 Cheers,
 Magnus
 
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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B

[jimlux]

Bob Camp wrote:

Hi

Audio codecs (especially monophonic ones) are pretty cheap these days.
Depending on volume they can get to the sub $1 range. Even in small quantity
they are below $4. That makes them a pretty tempting front end for a send
/ receive box.

Bob




i would think, given that the audio carrier is 1kHz-ish, that almost any 
of the small microcontrollers would work, using a single bit in/out with 
some RC signal conditioning.  Maybe a bit of a challenge for the 
receive.. you'd need two inputs with different resistors.


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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B

[jimlux]

Hal Murray wrote:

The IRIG-B decoder work I did was implemented on power systems relays 
disturbance recorders several years ago, then I left the company and in the
meantime, they changed over to an FPGA implementation and skipped the
processor altogether.  Now I'm back with that same company (although
ownership has changed), but I haven't yet had a chat with the new FPGA
designer to find out how he did it :-)


Interesting.  I'd like to know why they switched to FPGA.

I thought the consensus in the FPGA world was that if you could do it in 
software that was probably the better way to go.  The main idea is that it's 
easier to hire programmers than FPGA designers.


I'd expect silicon costs to be roughly equal.  In a FPGA you are wasting a 
lot of silicon for routing.  In a CPU, you are wasting it on instruction 
decoding.  Both are high volume parts riding the crest of Moore's Law.  Of 
course, algorithm details may push you one way or the other.





Maybe you have an all FPGA design otherwise, and just want to add IRIG 
to it?


Maybe you've got both FPGA and CPU resources in the box, and the CPU is 
used for non-real-time-critical stuff, and you want to do timing in 
hardware (that's my situation).


Not all applications are high volume.. even a mid volume app might need 
enough glue that one FPGA is a better choice than a uC and a FPGA.



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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B

[jimlux]

Magnus Danielson wrote:

On 05/26/2010 01:09 AM, Bob Camp wrote:

Hi

Like all the rest of us I'm making assumptions. I *assume* that we're 
talking about an implementation that will handle IRIG over audio over 
a fairly wide dynamic range.


Well, like most cases, I'd assume it is over sufficient dynamic range. 
The signal itself doesn't require very high dynamics, 8 bit should work 
well, 12 bits should allow for less care in level settings, 24 bits is 
excessive but cheap and only real care is high amplitude/clipping.





if you've got a low speed ADC, (perhaps on the chip) that's one way to 
go.  You can also do stuff like use a output pin from the micro and some 
resistor/capacitor stuff to do a CVSD encoder, which you can pretty 
easily turn into the level data you need to decode the IRIG.


At some point, though, the Rs and Cs cost enough (in board space and 
installation cost, if nothing else) that you might as well get a ADC (or 
a bigger uC that has one on chip)..


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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B(1) sample wav file

[Rob Kimberley]

It depends on the IRIG card used. With a basic reader card you can sync down
to 1 millisecond based on the 1 KHz IRIG-B time code. More elaborate cards
have a phase locked 10 MHz oscillator on board, and software to replace the
PC's RTC so time comes directly from the card. Sync to a few microseconds
and lower is possible. Take a look at Symmetricom (board level products
originally from Datum), and Spectracom (boards originally from Odetics via
KSI).

Rob Kimberley

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Predrag Dukic
Sent: 31 October 2009 21:30
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B(1) sample wav file




Does anybody know what is the time difference (or error) between two 
PC-s set this way?

(I mean the difference between two PC internal RTCs).

Can this method be used to sinc two sound cards, contained in two PCs 
some distance apart.

Predrag Dukic






At 17:10 31.10.2009, you wrote:
 There's a nice package called NMEATime which will generate 
 IRIG-B code using your sound card.

 http://www.visualgps.net/NMEATime/default.htm

 Lots of other neat software on that site as well. I bought 
 VisualGPS and NMEATime many moons ago.

 Happy tweaking.

*** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***

On 31-Oct-09 at 15:50 Robert Atkinson wrote:

 Hi,
 Anybody got a .wav file of a modulated IRIG-B timecode? I just want
 something to do a quick test on a display. My nomal IRIG generator is
 buried in the garage. A simple app to drive a sound card would also do. I
 know at least one of the Linux NTP implementaions can do this but I'm not
 running Linux and don't really want to do a lot of setting up, just a
 quick go/no-go check.
 
 Robert G8RPI.
 
 
 
 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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 __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
 signature database 4560 (20091031) __
 
 The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
 
 http://www.eset.com


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner  Head Hardware Heavy,
Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com
kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m
Quid Malmborg in Plano...


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http://www.eset.com


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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B(1) sample wav file

[Rob Kimberley]

See also  http://www.meinberg.de/english/products/index.htm#single_sync

Very competitively priced products from nice friendly company.

Rob Kimberley

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Predrag Dukic
Sent: 31 October 2009 21:30
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B(1) sample wav file




Does anybody know what is the time difference (or error) between two 
PC-s set this way?

(I mean the difference between two PC internal RTCs).

Can this method be used to sinc two sound cards, contained in two PCs 
some distance apart.

Predrag Dukic






At 17:10 31.10.2009, you wrote:
 There's a nice package called NMEATime which will generate 
 IRIG-B code using your sound card.

 http://www.visualgps.net/NMEATime/default.htm

 Lots of other neat software on that site as well. I bought 
 VisualGPS and NMEATime many moons ago.

 Happy tweaking.

*** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***

On 31-Oct-09 at 15:50 Robert Atkinson wrote:

 Hi,
 Anybody got a .wav file of a modulated IRIG-B timecode? I just want
 something to do a quick test on a display. My nomal IRIG generator is
 buried in the garage. A simple app to drive a sound card would also do. I
 know at least one of the Linux NTP implementaions can do this but I'm not
 running Linux and don't really want to do a lot of setting up, just a
 quick go/no-go check.
 
 Robert G8RPI.
 
 
 
 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
 To unsubscribe, go to
 https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 and follow the instructions there.
 
 __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
 signature database 4560 (20091031) __
 
 The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
 
 http://www.eset.com


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner  Head Hardware Heavy,
Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com
kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m
Quid Malmborg in Plano...


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signature database 4561 (20091031) __

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com


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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B(1) sample wav file

[Predrag Dukic]

Well, for my application, probably 1 ms is sufficient. Is it possible

with NMEATime alone, without any additional hardware?

That is what was my question about in the first place.

Thanks for all other suggestions, they will certainly be used in the future,

but NMEATime looks like my solution for 1ms.

From the NMEATime page it seems it uses bit-banging for PPS signal,

possibly triggering serial interrupt directly.  If that is true,

it could even be better than 1 ms. (?)


P. Dukic






At 10:35 2.11.2009, you wrote:

It depends on the IRIG card used. With a basic reader card you can sync down
to 1 millisecond based on the 1 KHz IRIG-B time code. More elaborate cards
have a phase locked 10 MHz oscillator on board, and software to replace the
PC's RTC so time comes directly from the card. Sync to a few microseconds
and lower is possible. Take a look at Symmetricom (board level products
originally from Datum), and Spectracom (boards originally from Odetics via
KSI).

Rob Kimberley

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Predrag Dukic
Sent: 31 October 2009 21:30
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B(1) sample wav file




Does anybody know what is the time difference (or error) between two
PC-s set this way?

(I mean the difference between two PC internal RTCs).

Can this method be used to sinc two sound cards, contained in two PCs
some distance apart.

Predrag Dukic






At 17:10 31.10.2009, you wrote:
 There's a nice package called NMEATime which will generate
 IRIG-B code using your sound card.

 http://www.visualgps.net/NMEATime/default.htm

 Lots of other neat software on that site as well. I bought
 VisualGPS and NMEATime many moons ago.

 Happy tweaking.

*** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***

On 31-Oct-09 at 15:50 Robert Atkinson wrote:

 Hi,
 Anybody got a .wav file of a modulated IRIG-B timecode? I just want
 something to do a quick test on a display. My nomal IRIG generator is
 buried in the garage. A simple app to drive a sound card would also do. I
 know at least one of the Linux NTP implementaions can do this but I'm not
 running Linux and don't really want to do a lot of setting up, just a
 quick go/no-go check.
 
 Robert G8RPI.
 
 
 
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-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner  Head Hardware Heavy,
Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com
kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m
Quid Malmborg in Plano...


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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B(1) sample wav file

[Bruce Lane]

There's a nice package called NMEATime which will generate IRIG-B code 
using your sound card.

http://www.visualgps.net/NMEATime/default.htm

Lots of other neat software on that site as well. I bought VisualGPS 
and NMEATime many moons ago.

Happy tweaking.

*** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***

On 31-Oct-09 at 15:50 Robert Atkinson wrote:

Hi,
Anybody got a .wav file of a modulated IRIG-B timecode? I just want
something to do a quick test on a display. My nomal IRIG generator is
buried in the garage. A simple app to drive a sound card would also do. I
know at least one of the Linux NTP implementaions can do this but I'm not
running Linux and don't really want to do a lot of setting up, just a
quick go/no-go check.
 
Robert G8RPI.


  
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__ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
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The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

http://www.eset.com


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner  Head Hardware Heavy,
Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com
kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m
Quid Malmborg in Plano...


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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B(1) sample wav file

[Robert Atkinson]

Hi Bruce,
That's just what I needed. I'd repaired two Rapco timecode readers (PSU faults) 
and needed to check them. I only need one so I'll put the other up for offers 
to the group before it goes to epay.
 
Thanks,
Robert G8RPI.

--- On Sat, 31/10/09, Bruce Lane kyr...@bluefeathertech.com wrote:


From: Bruce Lane kyr...@bluefeathertech.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B(1) sample wav file
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Date: Saturday, 31 October, 2009, 16:10


    There's a nice package called NMEATime which will generate IRIG-B code 
using your sound card.

    http://www.visualgps.net/NMEATime/default.htm

    Lots of other neat software on that site as well. I bought VisualGPS and 
NMEATime many moons ago.

    Happy tweaking.

*** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***

On 31-Oct-09 at 15:50 Robert Atkinson wrote:

Hi,
Anybody got a .wav file of a modulated IRIG-B timecode? I just want
something to do a quick test on a display. My nomal IRIG generator is
buried in the garage. A simple app to drive a sound card would also do. I
know at least one of the Linux NTP implementaions can do this but I'm not
running Linux and don't really want to do a lot of setting up, just a
quick go/no-go check.
 
Robert G8RPI.


      
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__ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
signature database 4560 (20091031) __

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

http://www.eset.com


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner  Head Hardware Heavy,
Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com
kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m
Quid Malmborg in Plano...


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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B(1) sample wav file

[Bruce Lane]

You're most welcome. Tell me a bit more about the Rapco, though, as I 
might be interested.

Thanks.

*** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***

On 31-Oct-09 at 17:36 Robert Atkinson wrote:

Hi Bruce,
That's just what I needed. I'd repaired two Rapco timecode readers (PSU
faults) and needed to check them. I only need one so I'll put the other up
for offers to the group before it goes to epay.
 
Thanks,
Robert G8RPI.

--- On Sat, 31/10/09, Bruce Lane kyr...@bluefeathertech.com wrote:


From: Bruce Lane kyr...@bluefeathertech.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B(1) sample wav file
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Date: Saturday, 31 October, 2009, 16:10


    There's a nice package called NMEATime which will generate IRIG-B code
using your sound card.

    http://www.visualgps.net/NMEATime/default.htm

    Lots of other neat software on that site as well. I bought VisualGPS
and NMEATime many moons ago.

    Happy tweaking.

*** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***

On 31-Oct-09 at 15:50 Robert Atkinson wrote:

Hi,
Anybody got a .wav file of a modulated IRIG-B timecode? I just want
something to do a quick test on a display. My nomal IRIG generator is
buried in the garage. A simple app to drive a sound card would also do. I
know at least one of the Linux NTP implementaions can do this but I'm not
running Linux and don't really want to do a lot of setting up, just a
quick go/no-go check.
 
Robert G8RPI.


      
___
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and follow the instructions there.

__ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
signature database 4560 (20091031) __

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

http://www.eset.com


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner  Head Hardware Heavy,
Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com
kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m
Quid Malmborg in Plano...


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-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner  Head Hardware Heavy,
Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com
kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m
Quid Malmborg in Plano...


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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B(1) sample wav file

[Stanley Reynolds]

Don't know if the level is right, this signal maybe clipped and I need to 
attenuate it.

www.n4iqt.com/timecode/timecode.wma

also it's a wma trying to convert to a wav, will place in the same place if it 
figure it out.

Stanley



- Original Message 
From: Robert Atkinson robert8...@yahoo.co.uk
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sat, October 31, 2009 10:50:16 AM
Subject: [time-nuts] IRIG B(1) sample wav file

Hi,
Anybody got a .wav file of a modulated IRIG-B timecode? I just want something 
to do a quick test on a display. My nomal IRIG generator is buried in the 
garage. A simple app to drive a sound card would also do. I know at least one 
of the Linux NTP implementaions can do this but I'm not running Linux and don't 
really want to do a lot of setting up, just a quick go/no-go check.
 
Robert G8RPI.


      
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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B(1) sample wav file

[Stanley Reynolds]

Recorded it and tested on my reader should be ok now:
 
www.n4iqt.com/timecode/timecode.wav
 
It is day 076 hour 13 min 54.
 
Stanley

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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B(1) sample wav file

[Predrag Dukic]

Does anybody know what is the time difference (or error) between two 
PC-s set this way?


(I mean the difference between two PC internal RTCs).

Can this method be used to sinc two sound cards, contained in two PCs 
some distance apart.


Predrag Dukic






At 17:10 31.10.2009, you wrote:
There's a nice package called NMEATime which will generate 
IRIG-B code using your sound card.


http://www.visualgps.net/NMEATime/default.htm

Lots of other neat software on that site as well. I bought 
VisualGPS and NMEATime many moons ago.


Happy tweaking.

*** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***

On 31-Oct-09 at 15:50 Robert Atkinson wrote:

Hi,
Anybody got a .wav file of a modulated IRIG-B timecode? I just want
something to do a quick test on a display. My nomal IRIG generator is
buried in the garage. A simple app to drive a sound card would also do. I
know at least one of the Linux NTP implementaions can do this but I'm not
running Linux and don't really want to do a lot of setting up, just a
quick go/no-go check.

Robert G8RPI.



___
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To unsubscribe, go to
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and follow the instructions there.

__ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
signature database 4560 (20091031) __

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

http://www.eset.com


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner  Head Hardware Heavy,
Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com
kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m
Quid Malmborg in Plano...


___
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and follow the instructions there.

__ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
signature database 4561 (20091031) __


The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com



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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B(1) sample wav file

[Robert Atkinson]

Thanks Stanley,
That worked great.
 
73,
Robert G8RPI.

--- On Sat, 31/10/09, Stanley Reynolds stanley_reyno...@yahoo.com wrote:


From: Stanley Reynolds stanley_reyno...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B(1) sample wav file
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com
Date: Saturday, 31 October, 2009, 19:09


Recorded it and tested on my reader should be ok now:
 
www.n4iqt.com/timecode/timecode.wav
 
It is day 076 hour 13 min 54.
 
Stanley

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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B(1) sample wav file

[Stanley Reynolds]

Here are some specs for a hardware device: 
http://www.meinberg.de/english/products/tcr511pci.htm


Stanley 



Does anybody know what is the time difference (or error) between two 
PC-s set this way?

(I mean the difference between two PC internal RTCs).

Can this method be used to sinc two sound cards, contained in two PCs 
some distance apart.

Predrag Dukic

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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG-B Reader/Offset Generator??

[bg]

On Thu, August 31, 2006 16:10, Rob Kimberley said:
 I wonder if anyone can help me out here.

 Looking for an IRIG-B Reader/Generator that can read IRIG-B and Generate
 IRIG-B + 1 day. i.e. output is always exactly 1 day ahead of input.  Must
 be
 able to start at an input of 000:00:00:00 (DDD:HH:MM:SS).

 Have scouted round most of the usual suppliers, but no luck so far.

Two semi wild ideas...

There is a audio (sound card) IRIG-B refclock driver for NTP. Dr Mill has
also written a sound card IRIG-B generator. Sync a computer with the audio
driver or a conventional irig-B reader. Hack the software generator to
output the code 1 day ahead.

Take one IRIG-B reader to decode the incoming stream. Let the 1PPS output
from that first card be a 1PPS input to a GPS steered IRIG-B generator. Do
not connect the GPS recevier/antenna (Acutime or equivalent) to the card.
Instead figure out which messages the timing card listens to emulate those
messages with a day added. Feed the simulated messages to the GPS input
from a computer serial port.

A less fun one...

From the bc635cpp application help.

The function allows the user to add an offset to the IRIG B signal being
produced by the bc635/637PCI device.  This functionality is useful for
driving IRIG B display units so local time appears on them.  Allowed
values are –12 through +12.

Two daisy chained bancomm/datum/symmetricom cards each adding 12hours to
the timecode, should seem to fit your demands. Did I miss something?

Good luck!

   Björn

PS btw... Have drivers for the GPS20 cards. Just need some time to update
them for the rather late linux kernel version I run.  DS

 For a UK customer of mine, so must be 240VAC working and have CE approval.
 Ideally new, but can accept used if in good condition.

 Cheers

 Rob Kimberley

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Re: [time-nuts] IRIG B offset, is it possible?

[Bill Hawkins]

The older time code generators can take an external frequency source,
but require you to make an initial time entry. Some allowed an external
sync pulse for more precise initialization.

I have several of these beyond my needs. Let me know if you can't
find what you need. Very reasonable, a bit more if you want it tested.

Bill Hawkins


-Original Message-
From: Bob Kupiec
Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 1:24 PM
Subject: [time-nuts] IRIG B offset, is it possible?

I have a IRIG B generator, but I can't create an offset.  I need to generate
the IRIG B timecode with a local offset (in hours).  This source must be
synced to a reliable time source of 1PPS or 10MHz (this already exists).



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