[time-nuts] Z3816A repair or purchase

[Robert Melville]

I have a non-working Z3816A.
Looking at the unit from the front, on the right-hand side
near the front are two status LEDs. One is green, the other red.
Is this a fault indication? Not much happening with the the RS-232 either.

I am open to suggestions for repair or would also consider purchasing
a working unit.
I want to put this back on the air.
Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks so much!
Bob Melville, WB3EFT
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Re: [time-nuts] NTP apps on Windows question

[Paul Theodoropoulos via time-nuts]

Only tangentially related, but for keeping a Windows PC synced, I'm rather 
partial to NetTime. It's a tiny tray app, quite flexible, and otherwise 
unobtrusive.  It's a freeware app, though donations are accepted


http://www.timesynctool.com/


On 9/24/2019 19:44 PM, Tim Shoppa wrote:

My feeling is that if you do not have competing applications fighting for
control of the clock, and your clock time is visibly correct to a second,
that your problem is not the system time.

Meinberg ntpd by default disables w32time but it may not disable other
applications (you mentioned a few of them) you have installed that are
fighting for the system clock.

Tim N3QE

On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 5:00 PM Chris Wilson  wrote:



   24/09/2019 19:58

I have used Meinberg NTP and also Thinking Man's Dimension 4 as NTP
applications on Windows 7 64 bit OS's on 3 PC's. I use them to sync
the PC time for WSJT-X WSPR (a low power digital amateur radio mode)
which requires an accurate time on the PC's for successful decoding
and transmitting of digital signals.

Both Dimension 4 and Meinberg have occasionally not allowed proper
syncing with the WSPR application attempting to decode up to 4 seconds
late, despite my Trimble Thunderbolt and Lady Heather showing the PC
is synced to GPS time within less than a second, by eye.


I am now trying another NTP app by DL4YHF Wolfgang Buscher. My
questions are, is such an anomaly known and should I disable Windows
Internet Time synchronization when using another NTP app? I see no
mention of disabling this in any of the NTP application's notes... The
WSPR application, WSJT-X has very recently been released in a 64 bit
version, which is what I am using, and I have to wonder if the new
version has some minor bug as I find it hard to believe two well known
and used NTP apps are buggy.


Thanks.

--
Best Regards,
Chris Wilson.
mailto: ch...@chriswilson.tv


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--
Paul Theodoropoulos
www.anastrophe.com


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Re: [time-nuts] NTP apps on Windows question

[Tim Shoppa]

My feeling is that if you do not have competing applications fighting for
control of the clock, and your clock time is visibly correct to a second,
that your problem is not the system time.

Meinberg ntpd by default disables w32time but it may not disable other
applications (you mentioned a few of them) you have installed that are
fighting for the system clock.

Tim N3QE

On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 5:00 PM Chris Wilson  wrote:

>
>
>   24/09/2019 19:58
>
> I have used Meinberg NTP and also Thinking Man's Dimension 4 as NTP
> applications on Windows 7 64 bit OS's on 3 PC's. I use them to sync
> the PC time for WSJT-X WSPR (a low power digital amateur radio mode)
> which requires an accurate time on the PC's for successful decoding
> and transmitting of digital signals.
>
> Both Dimension 4 and Meinberg have occasionally not allowed proper
> syncing with the WSPR application attempting to decode up to 4 seconds
> late, despite my Trimble Thunderbolt and Lady Heather showing the PC
> is synced to GPS time within less than a second, by eye.
>
>
> I am now trying another NTP app by DL4YHF Wolfgang Buscher. My
> questions are, is such an anomaly known and should I disable Windows
> Internet Time synchronization when using another NTP app? I see no
> mention of disabling this in any of the NTP application's notes... The
> WSPR application, WSJT-X has very recently been released in a 64 bit
> version, which is what I am using, and I have to wonder if the new
> version has some minor bug as I find it hard to believe two well known
> and used NTP apps are buggy.
>
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
>Best Regards,
>Chris Wilson.
> mailto: ch...@chriswilson.tv
>
>
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[time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt

[Gregory Beat via time-nuts]

I see that a used Trimble Thunderbolt is listed on eBay # 143392114973 .
This Trimble GPSDO is one year older (mfg. date), than my current Trimble 
reference.
This 24 Volt model has experienced its 1024 week rollover.  
Lady Heather corrects this on display.

greg
Sent from iPad Air

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Re: [time-nuts] Am I doing something wrong?

[Roger Rehr W3SZ]

Hi Bill,

Thanks for the note!

I leave the Trimble Thunderbolt powered up all the time because since 
the last rollover in April it takes a long time to find the satellites 
and it doesn't give 10 MHz output until it has found the satellites for 
the first time, so none of my gear that is fed by it works until it has 
achieved satellite lock at least once after being powered up.  After 
that it will give (undisciplined) 10 MHz output when it loses 
satellites.  I don't know if that lack of initial output is normal or 
not, because before the last rollover it would find the satellites 
quickly, before I had the rest of the station ready to go so I never 
noticed.


The Thunderbolt had been up and running continuously, stuck in the 
power-up mode for well more that a week without progressing to normal 
mode when I decided today to power it down and restart it to see if it 
would then advance from power-up to normal mode.  It has been more than 
4 hours since I restarted it earlier today and it still is in power-up mode.


You are right that the DAC is consistently 0.  PPS error jumps around 
between -50 and +50 ns.  OSC error is consistently in the range of 
543000 to 548000 ppt.  I don't understand why is says "Discipline OK" 
when it isn't disciplining, given the DAC voltage of zero and the large 
oscillator error.


All of this is a recent development.  The last time I took a screen grab 
of Lady Heather, last October, all looked well as you can see in the 
screen grab from last October:


http://w3sz.com/LadyHeatherScreen.PNG

I was hoping that I had recently accidentally set some setting 
incorrectly and that this would therefore be an easy fix.  I guess that 
is not the case :(


Thanks again Bill and

73,

Roger
W3SZ

On 9/24/2019 3:10 PM, Bill Beam wrote:

How long has unit been powered on?

GPS looks ok but osc is not locked, osc error is high at 500K ppt,
should be below 50ppt.  DAC shows no activity.

Give it time (maybe an hour) to see if it goes from 'Power-up' to 'Normal"



On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 13:32:18 -0400, Roger Rehr W3SZ wrote:


HI All,
I am wondering if I have set up my Trimble Thunderbolt wrong.
I have corrected for roll-over and everything looks good in Lady Heather
but the Thunderbolt stays in Power-up mode according to Lady Heather,
and is always "doing fixes" even though I have entered the lat and lon
for a fixed location.
According to Lady Heather Disciplining is OK, and of course the log
reflects this as well
#! new minor alarm state 0800:-  Tracking sats- -  Discipline OK- -  : at tow
235167
You can see the situation from this screen grab of Lady Heather:
http://w3sz.com/TrimbleLadyHeather.PNG
Have I done something wrong in configuration, or is this consistent
Power-up mode and "doing fixes" notation the expected behavior?





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Re: [time-nuts] NTP apps on Windows question

[Fiorenzo Cattaneo]

Yes you definitely need to disable and stop windows builtin ntp client.

-- Fio Cattaneo

Universal AC, can Entropy be reversed? -- "THERE IS AS YET
INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER."

> On Sep 24, 2019, at 14:35, Chris Burford  wrote:
> 
> Yes,
> 
> You want to disable Windows Time service (w32time) if running the client from 
> Meinberg. If you scroll down about 1/3 from the top of this document 
>  you will see where it makes mention 
> to disable win32time.
> 
> Chris
> 
>> On 09/24/19 14:08:12, Chris Wilson wrote:
>> 
>>   24/09/2019 19:58
>> 
>> I have used Meinberg NTP and also Thinking Man's Dimension 4 as NTP
>> applications on Windows 7 64 bit OS's on 3 PC's. I use them to sync
>> the PC time for WSJT-X WSPR (a low power digital amateur radio mode)
>> which requires an accurate time on the PC's for successful decoding
>> and transmitting of digital signals.
>> 
>> Both Dimension 4 and Meinberg have occasionally not allowed proper
>> syncing with the WSPR application attempting to decode up to 4 seconds
>> late, despite my Trimble Thunderbolt and Lady Heather showing the PC
>> is synced to GPS time within less than a second, by eye.
>> 
>> 
>> I am now trying another NTP app by DL4YHF Wolfgang Buscher. My
>> questions are, is such an anomaly known and should I disable Windows
>> Internet Time synchronization when using another NTP app? I see no
>> mention of disabling this in any of the NTP application's notes... The
>> WSPR application, WSJT-X has very recently been released in a 64 bit
>> version, which is what I am using, and I have to wonder if the new
>> version has some minor bug as I find it hard to believe two well known
>> and used NTP apps are buggy.
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Am I doing something wrong?

[Bill Beam]

How long has unit been powered on?

GPS looks ok but osc is not locked, osc error is high at 500K ppt,
should be below 50ppt.  DAC shows no activity.

Give it time (maybe an hour) to see if it goes from 'Power-up' to 'Normal"



On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 13:32:18 -0400, Roger Rehr W3SZ wrote:

>HI All,

>I am wondering if I have set up my Trimble Thunderbolt wrong.

>I have corrected for roll-over and everything looks good in Lady Heather 
>but the Thunderbolt stays in Power-up mode according to Lady Heather, 
>and is always "doing fixes" even though I have entered the lat and lon 
>for a fixed location.

>According to Lady Heather Disciplining is OK, and of course the log 
>reflects this as well

>#! new minor alarm state 0800:-  Tracking sats- -  Discipline OK- -  : at tow 
>235167

>You can see the situation from this screen grab of Lady Heather:
>http://w3sz.com/TrimbleLadyHeather.PNG

>Have I done something wrong in configuration, or is this consistent 
>Power-up mode and "doing fixes" notation the expected behavior?

>I am using the Thunderbolt as at 10 MHz source for my microwave station.

>Thanks in advance and 73,

>Roger Rehr
>W3SZ

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Bill Beam
NL7F




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Re: [time-nuts] NTP apps on Windows question

[Chris Burford]

Yes,

You want to disable Windows Time service (w32time) if running the client 
from Meinberg. If you scroll down about 1/3 from the top of this 
document  you will see where it 
makes mention to disable win32time.


Chris

On 09/24/19 14:08:12, Chris Wilson wrote:


   24/09/2019 19:58

I have used Meinberg NTP and also Thinking Man's Dimension 4 as NTP
applications on Windows 7 64 bit OS's on 3 PC's. I use them to sync
the PC time for WSJT-X WSPR (a low power digital amateur radio mode)
which requires an accurate time on the PC's for successful decoding
and transmitting of digital signals.

Both Dimension 4 and Meinberg have occasionally not allowed proper
syncing with the WSPR application attempting to decode up to 4 seconds
late, despite my Trimble Thunderbolt and Lady Heather showing the PC
is synced to GPS time within less than a second, by eye.


I am now trying another NTP app by DL4YHF Wolfgang Buscher. My
questions are, is such an anomaly known and should I disable Windows
Internet Time synchronization when using another NTP app? I see no
mention of disabling this in any of the NTP application's notes... The
WSPR application, WSJT-X has very recently been released in a 64 bit
version, which is what I am using, and I have to wonder if the new
version has some minor bug as I find it hard to believe two well known
and used NTP apps are buggy.


Thanks.


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Re: [time-nuts] Distributing GPS L1 signal to many GPS devices

[Taka Kamiya via time-nuts]

Oh, yes.  For "production" GPS (one I actually use in lab), there is ONE and 
only one GPSDO.  I then distribute the 10MHz.  I have a master distribution amp 
then from there, I have more dist-amp hanging off.

I have a separate rack where I have lots of time related equipment.  This is an 
experimental side.  I work on fun stuff here.  There, I ran out of antenna 
ports.

--- 
(Mr.) Taka Kamiya
KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
 

On Tuesday, September 24, 2019, 5:00:46 PM EDT, Dana Whitlow 
 wrote:  
 
 You could minimize problems with accumulated differential delays by *not*
daisy chaining- rather arrange the splitters in a hierarchical fashion
so that all your outputs have an equal number of splitters in the path.

I think your problem is that you started with more than one GPSDO.
You need to learn to live with just one.  Why not instead split its outputs
(1PPS and 10 MHz) with splitters?  The resulting system should be less
expensive, and all your references would track in their delays.  With
separate GPSDOs, you cannot be sure that they will always do the
same thing in the face of GPS signal impairments as well as just
plain ordinary noise.

Dana


On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 2:03 PM Taka Kamiya via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:

> Currently, I have a symetricom antenna outside that feeds an HP58536A (4
> port).  One of the output port daisy chains to another HP58536A's antenna
> port.  That gives me 7 ports total. Well, I need more.  I can simply daisy
> chain another one but it doesn't look like an elegant solution.  Besides,
> if I only turn on GPS on the last port, it will end up driving all of the
> active distributor amps.  Also, signal delay would be a concern.
>
> I KNOW there are many folks here who has more than dozen GPSDOs.  How do
> you do it?  Obviously, buying an 8 port version is one of the solutions but
> what if I need to expand that?  My goal is like 20 ports for future
> craziness.
>
> GPSDOs tend to grow during my sleep.  It must be because I started with
> just two.
>
>
>
> ---
> (Mr.) Taka Kamiya
> KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
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Re: [time-nuts] Distributing GPS L1 signal to many GPS devices

[Dana Whitlow]

You could minimize problems with accumulated differential delays by *not*
daisy chaining- rather arrange the splitters in a hierarchical fashion
so that all your outputs have an equal number of splitters in the path.

I think your problem is that you started with more than one GPSDO.
You need to learn to live with just one.  Why not instead split its outputs
(1PPS and 10 MHz) with splitters?  The resulting system should be less
expensive, and all your references would track in their delays.  With
separate GPSDOs, you cannot be sure that they will always do the
same thing in the face of GPS signal impairments as well as just
plain ordinary noise.

Dana


On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 2:03 PM Taka Kamiya via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:

> Currently, I have a symetricom antenna outside that feeds an HP58536A (4
> port).  One of the output port daisy chains to another HP58536A's antenna
> port.  That gives me 7 ports total. Well, I need more.  I can simply daisy
> chain another one but it doesn't look like an elegant solution.  Besides,
> if I only turn on GPS on the last port, it will end up driving all of the
> active distributor amps.  Also, signal delay would be a concern.
>
> I KNOW there are many folks here who has more than dozen GPSDOs.  How do
> you do it?  Obviously, buying an 8 port version is one of the solutions but
> what if I need to expand that?  My goal is like 20 ports for future
> craziness.
>
> GPSDOs tend to grow during my sleep.  It must be because I started with
> just two.
>
>
>
> ---
> (Mr.) Taka Kamiya
> KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
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Re: [time-nuts] Distributing GPS L1 signal to many GPS devices

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

There are a number of MiniCircuits passive multiport splitters that show up on 
eBay
at reasonable (< $40) sort of prices. You can get eight port versions with SMA 
connectors
on them fairly quickly. Other connector types or higher port counts may take a 
bit of shopping 
and added cost. There are also 4 port versions that show up in the < $20 range. 

Cascading one 4 port into 4 eight ports gets you 32 outputs. You also have a 
bit of loss to deal with.

One way to deal with the loss is to run a “survey” antenna in front of the 
setup. Some of them have
50 db of gain (compared to the 20 to 30 db often seen in timing antennas). That 
will quite nicely make
up for the splitters plus some cable loss.

Another way to make up for the loss is to shop a bit for an amplifier that will 
do the job. There are a 
number of manufacturers out there. Some include filtering, some do not. A 
broadband amp with no 
filtering and possible open questions about 3rd order intercept ( = signal 
handling) capability can be had
for <$20. Something fancier with filters might be 5X that.

Indeed there is no need to stop at a 4 port on the front end. You can start 
with an 8 port and then
tack on 8 ports after that…..

Be aware that some sort of DC block probably is a good idea on each of the 
output ports. If you have
a (rare) GPS that freaks out with no DC into the antenna that also will need to 
be handled.

Bob

> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:30 PM, Taka Kamiya via time-nuts 
>  wrote:
> 
> Currently, I have a symetricom antenna outside that feeds an HP58536A (4 
> port).  One of the output port daisy chains to another HP58536A's antenna 
> port.  That gives me 7 ports total. Well, I need more.  I can simply daisy 
> chain another one but it doesn't look like an elegant solution.  Besides, if 
> I only turn on GPS on the last port, it will end up driving all of the active 
> distributor amps.  Also, signal delay would be a concern.
> 
> I KNOW there are many folks here who has more than dozen GPSDOs.  How do you 
> do it?  Obviously, buying an 8 port version is one of the solutions but what 
> if I need to expand that?  My goal is like 20 ports for future craziness.
> 
> GPSDOs tend to grow during my sleep.  It must be because I started with just 
> two.
> 
> 
> 
> --- 
> (Mr.) Taka Kamiya
> KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
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[time-nuts] NTP apps on Windows question

[Chris Wilson]

  24/09/2019 19:58

I have used Meinberg NTP and also Thinking Man's Dimension 4 as NTP
applications on Windows 7 64 bit OS's on 3 PC's. I use them to sync
the PC time for WSJT-X WSPR (a low power digital amateur radio mode)
which requires an accurate time on the PC's for successful decoding
and transmitting of digital signals.

Both Dimension 4 and Meinberg have occasionally not allowed proper
syncing with the WSPR application attempting to decode up to 4 seconds
late, despite my Trimble Thunderbolt and Lady Heather showing the PC
is synced to GPS time within less than a second, by eye.


I am now trying another NTP app by DL4YHF Wolfgang Buscher. My
questions are, is such an anomaly known and should I disable Windows
Internet Time synchronization when using another NTP app? I see no
mention of disabling this in any of the NTP application's notes... The
WSPR application, WSJT-X has very recently been released in a 64 bit
version, which is what I am using, and I have to wonder if the new
version has some minor bug as I find it hard to believe two well known
and used NTP apps are buggy.


Thanks.

-- 
   Best Regards,
   Chris Wilson.
mailto: ch...@chriswilson.tv


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[time-nuts] Distributing GPS L1 signal to many GPS devices

[Taka Kamiya via time-nuts]

Currently, I have a symetricom antenna outside that feeds an HP58536A (4 port). 
 One of the output port daisy chains to another HP58536A's antenna port.  That 
gives me 7 ports total. Well, I need more.  I can simply daisy chain another 
one but it doesn't look like an elegant solution.  Besides, if I only turn on 
GPS on the last port, it will end up driving all of the active distributor 
amps.  Also, signal delay would be a concern.

I KNOW there are many folks here who has more than dozen GPSDOs.  How do you do 
it?  Obviously, buying an 8 port version is one of the solutions but what if I 
need to expand that?  My goal is like 20 ports for future craziness.

GPSDOs tend to grow during my sleep.  It must be because I started with just 
two.



--- 
(Mr.) Taka Kamiya
KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
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[time-nuts] Am I doing something wrong?

[Roger Rehr W3SZ]

HI All,

I am wondering if I have set up my Trimble Thunderbolt wrong.

I have corrected for roll-over and everything looks good in Lady Heather 
but the Thunderbolt stays in Power-up mode according to Lady Heather, 
and is always "doing fixes" even though I have entered the lat and lon 
for a fixed location.


According to Lady Heather Disciplining is OK, and of course the log 
reflects this as well


#! new minor alarm state 0800:  Tracking sats   Discipline OK   : at tow 
235167


You can see the situation from this screen grab of Lady Heather:
http://w3sz.com/TrimbleLadyHeather.PNG

Have I done something wrong in configuration, or is this consistent 
Power-up mode and "doing fixes" notation the expected behavior?


I am using the Thunderbolt as at 10 MHz source for my microwave station.

Thanks in advance and 73,

Roger Rehr
W3SZ

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