Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[jimlux]

On 10/22/19 7:58 PM, Scott McGrath wrote:

4 pin xlr is also standard for pro audio/video. So you might want to use the 
same pin configuration as the ‘standard’ so you can use the large variety of 
accessories available.

Content by Scott
Typos by Siri

On Oct 22, 2019, at 7:42 PM, "n...@lazygranch.com"  wrote:

Glad I read all the replies since I was also going to suggest Canon
connectors. I have used the 3 pin canon because they are easy to find
and I am not going to plug a microphone into a power supply. The
breakout box is unique enough to not get it confused with anything
else. (Not suitable for the general public!!!)

That said, the 4 pin canon is a good idea. It is a power supply
standard. You can find cables online.

Mine is designed for battery use. I put reverse biased diodes across
the supply and use a fuse. I never hooked it up backwards but you never
know.


4 pin is pin 1 is gnd, pin 4 is +12V
BTW there is a weird 4 pin configuration with 3 in a triangle and 1 pin 
in the middle.  I've seen it in a catalog, but never in the wild.



The 5 pin XLR is used for DMX lighting controllers, so you want to 
either be compatible pinout (i.e. not blow things up) or avoid it. Pin 1 
is ground, don't recall how the rest is laid out, other than it's a pair


The 6 pin XLR is a bit unusual, and the pins are significantly smaller, too.


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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Scott McGrath]

4 pin xlr is also standard for pro audio/video. So you might want to use the 
same pin configuration as the ‘standard’ so you can use the large variety of 
accessories available.

Content by Scott
Typos by Siri

On Oct 22, 2019, at 7:42 PM, "n...@lazygranch.com"  wrote:

Glad I read all the replies since I was also going to suggest Canon
connectors. I have used the 3 pin canon because they are easy to find
and I am not going to plug a microphone into a power supply. The
breakout box is unique enough to not get it confused with anything
else. (Not suitable for the general public!!!)

That said, the 4 pin canon is a good idea. It is a power supply
standard. You can find cables online.  

Mine is designed for battery use. I put reverse biased diodes across
the supply and use a fuse. I never hooked it up backwards but you never
know.

If you need to make holes for the Canon jacks, those Harbor Freight
multi-hole drills work fine.  

On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 13:32:12 +0100
"Paul Bicknell"  wrote:

> Hi I am standardising on 4 pin XLR connectors for 12 Volts as used in
> the TV industry Perhaps you could use the 6 pin for 5 volts 
> I do not recommend the 2 pin as this is for 240 V ac 
> Or the 3 pin as you could take out a microphone 
> 
> I am going to be Using military connectors for 24 V DC and 400 Hz
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@lists.febo.com] On Behalf
> Of John Ackermann. N8UR
> Sent: 04 October 2019 12:40
> To: David Van Horn via time-nuts
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution
> 
> I use lots and lots of Anderson PowerPoles and (mostly) West Mountain
> Radio distribution units.  I have different color codes for different
> voltages -- red/black for 12v, orange/black for 24v, green/black for
> 5v, etc.  Primary 12 and 24 volt sources are big AGM batteries across
> float chargers.
> 
> On Oct 4, 2019, 2:03 AM, at 2:03 AM, Bill Dailey 
> wrote:
>> Setting up a new workbench and am wondering what wisdom people can
>> offer.  I am powering numerous synthesizers (5v), small receivers
>> (5v), Upconverters (5v), larger receivers (12v), fury Gpsdo’s..
>> etc.   anyone use something neat and not real expensive for
>> distributing 5v and 12v. I am hoping for a long COTS pcb with fusing
>> and maybe holes for plugs. 
>> 
>> 
>> Any insights?
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
>> Bill Dailey
>> 
>> Negativity always wins the short game. But positivity wins the long
>> game. - Gary Vaynerchuk
>> 
>> Don’t be easy to understand, 
>> Be impossible to misunderstand 
>> - Steve Sims
>> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[n...@lazygranch.com]

Glad I read all the replies since I was also going to suggest Canon
connectors. I have used the 3 pin canon because they are easy to find
and I am not going to plug a microphone into a power supply. The
breakout box is unique enough to not get it confused with anything
else. (Not suitable for the general public!!!)

That said, the 4 pin canon is a good idea. It is a power supply
standard. You can find cables online.  

Mine is designed for battery use. I put reverse biased diodes across
the supply and use a fuse. I never hooked it up backwards but you never
know.

If you need to make holes for the Canon jacks, those Harbor Freight
multi-hole drills work fine.  

On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 13:32:12 +0100
"Paul Bicknell"  wrote:

> Hi I am standardising on 4 pin XLR connectors for 12 Volts as used in
> the TV industry Perhaps you could use the 6 pin for 5 volts 
> I do not recommend the 2 pin as this is for 240 V ac 
> Or the 3 pin as you could take out a microphone 
> 
> I am going to be Using military connectors for 24 V DC and 400 Hz
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@lists.febo.com] On Behalf
> Of John Ackermann. N8UR
> Sent: 04 October 2019 12:40
> To: David Van Horn via time-nuts
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution
> 
> I use lots and lots of Anderson PowerPoles and (mostly) West Mountain
> Radio distribution units.  I have different color codes for different
> voltages -- red/black for 12v, orange/black for 24v, green/black for
> 5v, etc.  Primary 12 and 24 volt sources are big AGM batteries across
> float chargers.
> 
> On Oct 4, 2019, 2:03 AM, at 2:03 AM, Bill Dailey 
> wrote:
> >Setting up a new workbench and am wondering what wisdom people can
> >offer.  I am powering numerous synthesizers (5v), small receivers
> >(5v), Upconverters (5v), larger receivers (12v), fury Gpsdo’s..
> >etc.   anyone use something neat and not real expensive for
> >distributing 5v and 12v. I am hoping for a long COTS pcb with fusing
> >and maybe holes for plugs. 
> >
> >
> >Any insights?
> >
> >Bill
> >
> >Bill Dailey
> >
> >Negativity always wins the short game. But positivity wins the long
> >game. - Gary Vaynerchuk
> >
> >Don’t be easy to understand, 
> >Be impossible to misunderstand 
> >- Steve Sims
> >___
> >time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> >To unsubscribe, go to
> >http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> >and follow the instructions there.
> ___
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> 
> 
> -
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release Date:
> 08/14/18 Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Scott McGrath]

I have a similar crimper for lugs it works nicely,  the cross section is the 
proof of the pudding so to speak.

Content by Scott
Typos by Siri

On Oct 8, 2019, at 12:14 AM, Mark Goldberg  wrote:

At a risk of having you folks tear it apart, here is my poor man's guide to
getting good crimps on large cables:

https://sites.google.com/site/marksrvmods/home/battery-wiring

You can see the cross section and there are no voids at all. You can hardly
see where the wire strands end and the lug begins.

These have given up to two years of service in my RV with no issues. I do
similar crimps with the Anderson SB175s.

I am using welding cable with a lot of strands. Tinned Marine cables and
lugs would be even better, but we live in a very dry climate.

Regards,

Mark
W7MLG


On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 9:00 PM Martin Flynn 
wrote:

> After a failure under load of a starter cable on a large generator, I
> finally broke down and bought a Burndy hydraulic crimper for the grounds
> and cables I normally use.
> 
> Did two test low-tech tests:
> 
> First test on a 1" section of 2/0 DLO cable, with a two bolt telco lug
> at each end.  It failed at ~2200 ft/lbs, the wire itself broke strand by
> strand.
> 
> Second test involved sawing the crimp across the barrel and looking for
> voids.  Using factory lugs and die, no voids were visible at 25X
> magnification
> 
> 
> 
>> On 10/6/2019 2:46 PM, Mark Goldberg wrote:
>> It is even more difficult. I bought some cables from a company because I
>> did not have a crimper for 4/0. I was not impressed. My crimps were much
>> better.
>> 
>> I don't have a specific recommendation, but you should get a feel from
> them
>> that they understand the standards. Places that do work for aviation
>> generally have to do good work, as lives depend on it. Unfortunately, it
> is
>> a high labor activity, so many are not in the US. A long time ago, I
> worked
>> with some just south of the border in Mexico that did good work.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Mark
>> W7MLG
>> 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Didier Juges]

That thread won't die :)

Getting back briefly on the crimp versus solder debate, I want to give my 2
cents experience based opinion on this. I have been designing hardware used
in military platforms most of my life, save for a few years at the start
doing space hardware.

A properly crimped connection is generally preferred to a properly soldered
connection. The contact quality tends to be better (fewer materials are
involved) and it can more easily be automated, which eliminates the
variability of most human performed operation. There is no risk of residual
flux that can cause problems down the road if not properly cleaned.

HOWEVER, and this is my experience, if you do not have all the elements to
make a proper crimped connection, an adequate solder connection is usually
easier to achieve, particularly in a hobby setting. You need the right
crimping tool and the wire has to be the exact type required by the pin and
the tool. On the other hand, you only need one good soldering iron
(interchangeable tips certainly is a plus) for most types of pins and wires.

Patchwork like inserting a short piece of heavier gauge wire because the
wire is too small for the pin, or using the wrong tool will usualy give
unreliable results when crimped. Once you messed the crimp, you have to
replace the pin.

On the other hand, you can redo a solder joint as many times as you want
(make sure to suck up the old solder when you do) and soldering a wire
smaller than recommended for the pin may still yield acceptable results, at
least for anything that does not fly.

Soldering an already poorly crimped connection is not a great idea but if
the wire or pin were not seriously damaged and soldering is done properly,
I do not see much difference with a straight solder connection (hobby
setting of course).

Didier KO4BB
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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Mark Goldberg]

At a risk of having you folks tear it apart, here is my poor man's guide to
getting good crimps on large cables:

https://sites.google.com/site/marksrvmods/home/battery-wiring

You can see the cross section and there are no voids at all. You can hardly
see where the wire strands end and the lug begins.

These have given up to two years of service in my RV with no issues. I do
similar crimps with the Anderson SB175s.

I am using welding cable with a lot of strands. Tinned Marine cables and
lugs would be even better, but we live in a very dry climate.

Regards,

Mark
W7MLG


On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 9:00 PM Martin Flynn 
wrote:

> After a failure under load of a starter cable on a large generator, I
> finally broke down and bought a Burndy hydraulic crimper for the grounds
> and cables I normally use.
>
> Did two test low-tech tests:
>
> First test on a 1" section of 2/0 DLO cable, with a two bolt telco lug
> at each end.  It failed at ~2200 ft/lbs, the wire itself broke strand by
> strand.
>
> Second test involved sawing the crimp across the barrel and looking for
> voids.  Using factory lugs and die, no voids were visible at 25X
> magnification
>
>
>
> On 10/6/2019 2:46 PM, Mark Goldberg wrote:
> > It is even more difficult. I bought some cables from a company because I
> > did not have a crimper for 4/0. I was not impressed. My crimps were much
> > better.
> >
> > I don't have a specific recommendation, but you should get a feel from
> them
> > that they understand the standards. Places that do work for aviation
> > generally have to do good work, as lives depend on it. Unfortunately, it
> is
> > a high labor activity, so many are not in the US. A long time ago, I
> worked
> > with some just south of the border in Mexico that did good work.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Mark
> > W7MLG
> >
>
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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Martin Flynn]

After a failure under load of a starter cable on a large generator, I 
finally broke down and bought a Burndy hydraulic crimper for the grounds 
and cables I normally use.


Did two test low-tech tests:

First test on a 1" section of 2/0 DLO cable, with a two bolt telco lug 
at each end.  It failed at ~2200 ft/lbs, the wire itself broke strand by 
strand.


Second test involved sawing the crimp across the barrel and looking for 
voids.  Using factory lugs and die, no voids were visible at 25X 
magnification




On 10/6/2019 2:46 PM, Mark Goldberg wrote:

It is even more difficult. I bought some cables from a company because I
did not have a crimper for 4/0. I was not impressed. My crimps were much
better.

I don't have a specific recommendation, but you should get a feel from them
that they understand the standards. Places that do work for aviation
generally have to do good work, as lives depend on it. Unfortunately, it is
a high labor activity, so many are not in the US. A long time ago, I worked
with some just south of the border in Mexico that did good work.

Regards,

Mark
W7MLG



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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Paul Milazzo]

On 10/4/2019 5:07 PM,  Taka Kamiya   wrote:

I used to use power pole, too but they don't lock firmly enough for my liking.  
So I don't use them anymore.  It would be perfect if there is an option to add 
positive locking mechanism of some kind.


I know of three such mechanisms:

 * Anderson 110G68
   

   Retention Clip
 * Anderson 110G21 Block Lok, 2 Pole, Black
 * Anderson 110G12
   

   Block Lok, 4 Pole, Black

I have used 110G68 Retention Clips in the car for years and never had 
one come apart on its own.


73,

- Paul G. Milazzo, K3PGM

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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution crimp quality

[Warren Kumari]

On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 4:00 AM Poul-Henning Kamp  wrote:
>
> 
> In message 
> , Michael 
> Smith writes:
>
> >A mil-spec connector must be crimped with a routinely CALIBRATED"  crimping
> >tool specified by the connector manufacturer, or equal.
>
> You forgot the bit about "X percentage of all crimps must be destructively
> pull-tested"
>
> If people want to learn about connections, soldered, crimped and otherwise
> some very good articles can be find in the BSTJ around the time when they
> invented wire-wrap.

Additional good reading on this topic is NASAs' "WORKMANSHIP STANDARD
FOR CRIMPING, INTERCONNECTING CABLES, HARNESSES, AND WIRING", at
https://nepp.nasa.gov/files/27631/NSTD87394A.pdf

It really is a fascinating and useful read.
W


>
> --
> Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
> p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
> FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
> Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
>
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-- 
I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad
idea in the first place.
This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing
regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair
of pants.
   ---maf

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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution crimp quality

[Poul-Henning Kamp]

In message 
, Michael 
Smith writes:

>A mil-spec connector must be crimped with a routinely CALIBRATED"  crimping
>tool specified by the connector manufacturer, or equal. 

You forgot the bit about "X percentage of all crimps must be destructively
pull-tested"

If people want to learn about connections, soldered, crimped and otherwise
some very good articles can be find in the BSTJ around the time when they
invented wire-wrap.

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[John Miles]

> In the case of Power-Pole connectors, as someone else described, the
> exact placement and alignment of the crimp, and how the terminal deforms
> during the crimp, is important to successful insertion of the crimped
> terminal into the plastic shell where the contact-force leaf spring
> retains the terminal and actually supplies the contact force. That's why
> Power-Pole crimp tools position and align the contact end of the
> terminal for crimping.

The deformation of the terminal is a bigger deal than it appears at first.  It 
is what gives the leaf spring room to do its thing.  These are designed under 
the assumption that the contact will flatten out when crimped, and soldering by 
itself won't do that.  

Longer story: I always used to solder PowerPole connectors, being too lazy to 
hunt down a crimper for them.  (Until recently, I also wasn't aware that a good 
crimper could be had for $30 rather than $300.)  Awhile back, I somehow managed 
to build a mated pair of 30A connectors that was completely open unless it was 
flexed in a particular direction.  An X-ray of that one really drives home the 
point that Larry makes about deformation:

http://www.ke5fx.com/PowerPole_soldered_15sec_25kVp.png

Compare to properly-crimped terminals:

http://www.ke5fx.com/PowerPole_crimped_15sec_25kVp.png

My defective pair of 30A connectors yielded nice 'clicks' when I assembled 
them, as usual, but they don't snap together as nicely when mating.  Because 
the soldered contacts are physically larger than the ones that come out of the 
crimping tool, the leaf spring can only do so much to compensate for bending 
forces.  The contacts need more room to move.

Originally I thought the escaped solder from the front of the crimp area was 
what was distorting the contact geometry.  It is probably what made the 
difference between the failed connection here and plenty of 'good' ones I've 
also made.  But when I looked at the X-ray of the crimped version, I realized 
that the shape of the terminal was the real issue.   There is arguably no way 
to do this job right without crimping.

-- john, KE5FX
Miles Design LLC / Jackson Labs LLC




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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[ed breya]

Larry and Bill have hit the nails on the heads. For crimping, it's 
important to achieve a gas-tight connection, by essentially cold-welding 
enough Cu of the wire to the Cu or alloy of the crimp device. Too much 
of the wrong other materials present, or insufficient crimping force, 
may produce weaker, less reliable joints, or rectifying junctions. 
Environmental effects can take their toll over time too, so the 
application and level of reliability needed should be  considered.


For good crimps, the materials should be clean, of course, or typically 
protected by thin plating like Sn or Ag or Ni. Some of the plating is 
displaced during deformation, and the fresh, clean Cu underneath becomes 
intimately bonded to that of the crimp device. Too little deformation 
won't provide as much fresh Cu to bond, while too much will damage and 
weaken the wire strands. The best crimps can be made with both the wire 
and crimp made of bare copper, and thoroughly cleaned just before 
crimping. This isn't very practical for routine use, so plated crimps 
are much more common, while the wire can be had in all sorts of varieties.


Even tarnished bare Cu wire and crimps can work, as long as the crimping 
action exposes enough good copper to bond, rather than just squeezing 
them together, possibly forming a copper oxide rectifier (remember 
those?). This doesn't matter much in power connections, but may 
especially in small-signal applications. Consider the lowly wire-nut, an 
insulated helical cone of spring steel, threaded onto two or more wires 
that are simply in contact, say in AC power branch circuits. These work 
just fine, if properly applied, left mostly undisturbed, and protected 
from the elements.


Ed






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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Mark Goldberg]

I've had the good luck to know a number of people that worked on industry
standards and have participated in some committees myself in the avionics
industry. You do indeed find out the why. The cynical among you may dispute
this, but most of the time the members really want to do the right thing,
and eliminate failures that they have experienced.

Regards,

Mark
W7MLG


On Sun, Oct 6, 2019 at 9:01 AM jimlux  wrote:

> On 10/5/19 7:11 PM, Mark Goldberg wrote:
>
> >
> > Building codes are published by the NFPA. They allow you to sign up and
> > view them online. You can't print them or save them, but at least you can
> > look things up and learn, even if you did not pay. I wish the IPC would
> do
> > the same.
> >
>
>
> what's even better is that you can also find the committee meetings for
> the code review/code making - that's where you find the "why" they have
> the "shall"
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Larry McDavid]

Crimping machines and hand crimp tools all close the crimping dies to a 
set position; that position on all bench machines and most hand crimp 
tools is adjustable and is set to qualify the crimp. The cross-section 
area of the conductor strand bundle is the dominant factor.


Optimally, the crimp conditions are correct for just one gage wire and 
one strand count; most non-automotive cables are either 7 or 19 strand 
because those counts fill the outer layer of the bundle fully--it is 
geometry driven. Use a circle templet to draw a bundle: one strand in 
the center, six strands around it fill the next layer and the next layer 
brings the total to 19 strands. Seven and nineteen strand counts are not 
arbitrary--it is geometry.


Connector manufacturers try to qualify a crimp terminal size for a range 
of wire gages for economy and accept variation in how gas tight the 
crimp is. But in optimal production, the crimp height is set using pull 
force testing with the actual wire gage used. Connector manufacturers 
supply recommended crimp heights for each terminal and wire gage (or 
gage range). This height is measured with a special micrometer made for 
the purpose.


Designing a crimp terminal is an art as well as science. The shape of 
the crimp wings in a typical "B" crimp (in which the tips of the crimp 
wings are folded around and down into the strand bundle) as well as the 
exact shape of the crimp tool dies are critical. Worn tools produce poor 
crimps. Even the exact shape of how the crimped crimp wings meet in the 
strand bundle is important to temperature cycle performance of the 
crimp; that shape can be inspected only by cross-sectioning the crimp zone.


Another qualification test of a crimp terminal and crimp dieset is 
resistance change following high temperature soak. Typically, numerous 
test crimps are made and voltage-measuring fine wires are spot welded 
near the crimp zone. The initial resistance within the crimp zone is 
measured with a high current, low resistance milliohm meter, the 
terminal is thermal soaked at 125 or 140°C for 240 hours and the 
resistance measured again. Only a few milliohms (sometimes less!) 
*change* is acceptable for a good design.


Automotive wires are different only, I believe, because of 
history--originally the individual wire gage was picked for volume cost 
or convenient availability and the number of strands adjusted to provide 
the required current carrying capacity. Unfortunately this means 
automotive wire bundles usually don't have geometrically full bundles. 
Geometrically full (i.e. 7 and 19 strand) bundles crimp more uniformly. 
Automotive wires are not tin coated, another cost savings. The usage 
volume is so high the bare copper strands don't corrode before assembly 
and once crimped properly air does not get into the crimp zone. Many 
automotive connectors are "sealed" with seals at the connector shell 
interface and also around each insulated wire where it enters the shell. 
This sealing is surprisingly effective and these mated connectors pass 
240 hour salt fog testing; you routinely see these sealed connectors in 
underhood applications.


Ok, there is a lot of science and engineering in making a good crimp. 
But end users don't do this themselves, it is done by the connector 
manufacturers. In production environments where reliability is important 
(automotive in this case) the pull force testing I described previously 
is routinely used, often at the start of each production shift in a good 
production house.


In the case of Power-Pole connectors, as someone else described, the 
exact placement and alignment of the crimp, and how the terminal deforms 
during the crimp, is important to successful insertion of the crimped 
terminal into the plastic shell where the contact-force leaf spring 
retains the terminal and actually supplies the contact force. That's why 
Power-Pole crimp tools position and align the contact end of the 
terminal for crimping.


Yes, lots of details to consider. Nevertheless, crimped terminals are 
more reliable when done correctly than soldered terminals.


One aspect of soldered terminals that is often overlooked is that solder 
wicks down the strand bundle under the wire insulation, creating a solid 
where the stranded wire enters the soldered terminal. That is a 
stress-riser and a likely source of flexure failure.


Larry McDavid


On 10/6/2019 7:25 AM, jimlux wrote:

On 10/5/19 8:16 PM, Larry McDavid wrote:
I've used Power-Pole connectors for many years successfully and I've 
always crimped them with appropriate Power-Pole crimp tools. I never, 
never solder crimped connections! Heating a crimped connection to 
soldering temperature will relax the crimp force in the crimp zone 
and, if properly crimped, there is no gap among the wire strands for 
solder to flow into. The result is always a loss of connection quality.


Stranded wire can be tinned or coated with solder by the wire 
manufacturer and crimped suc

Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Mark Goldberg]

It is even more difficult. I bought some cables from a company because I
did not have a crimper for 4/0. I was not impressed. My crimps were much
better.

I don't have a specific recommendation, but you should get a feel from them
that they understand the standards. Places that do work for aviation
generally have to do good work, as lives depend on it. Unfortunately, it is
a high labor activity, so many are not in the US. A long time ago, I worked
with some just south of the border in Mexico that did good work.

Regards,

Mark
W7MLG


On Sun, Oct 6, 2019 at 9:01 AM jimlux  wrote:

> On 10/5/19 5:37 PM, Scott McGrath wrote:
> > Anything larger - i use a local assembly house which has hydraulic
> crimpers for Anderson connectors.
> >
> >
>   a sort of generic question, not specifically aimed at this application
> - there's a lot of specialized operations that are better left to
> someone that knows how to do it. How does one find such assembly houses?
>
>
> So how does one find these companies?
>
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Hal Murray]

kb...@n1k.org said:
> On the typical West Mountain setup, the cable that goes from the power supply
> into  the device tends to stay in place a *long* time. The other stuff gets
> moved around allot. Indeed my preference is for the “newer” designs that
> don’t bring power in on  a Power Pole. 

That looks interesting, but I can't quite follow what you are saying.

If some gear doesn't use Power Pole, what does it use and/or how does power 
get into the box?

Does your "long time" reflect your usage patterns or something more general?  
I think the context where I learned about Power Pole was ham field days where 
part of the game is being able to move and setup gear.

--

My workbench tends to be fairly stable, but I have too many wall warts.

-- 
These are my opinions.  I hate spam.




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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[jimlux]

On 10/6/19 4:25 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:


In message <6e619156-4cc4-f343-7a37-6c2f98b0e...@earthlink.net>, jimlux writes:


For a Class D mission, there is a formal process (at JPL, anyway) where
you go through the roughly 700 "Design Principles" and "Flight Project
Practices" [...]


Are these available in a public document ?

Not the latest versions (it's part of JPL's competitive "secret sauce") 
but...


It used to be pushed out with procurements - search for D-17868 "Design, 
Verification/Validation and Operations Principles"


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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[jimlux]

On 10/5/19 8:16 PM, Larry McDavid wrote:
I've used Power-Pole connectors for many years successfully and I've 
always crimped them with appropriate Power-Pole crimp tools. I never, 
never solder crimped connections! Heating a crimped connection to 
soldering temperature will relax the crimp force in the crimp zone and, 
if properly crimped, there is no gap among the wire strands for solder 
to flow into. The result is always a loss of connection quality.


Stranded wire can be tinned or coated with solder by the wire 
manufacturer and crimped successfully so long as the wire is 
"non-fused-tin-coated." But, much stranded tinned wire *is* fused to 
keep the strands together after removing the insulation; this type of 
stranded wire should not be crimped. Much MIL Spec wire is silver 
coated, inherently non-fused and crimps well.


Professionally (in both aerospace and high-rel automotive air bag 
applications), I've had the "crimp zone" of very many crimped connector 
contacts metallurgically mounted, cross-sectioned and examined 
microscopically after polishing and etching to reveal the individual 
strands even in the crimp zone. This is the ultimate method to "qualify" 
a crimped connection. A "gas-tight" crimp shows under microscopic 
examination no air gaps within the crimp zone--the crimped wire bundle 
has gone solid and is "gas tight."


"Crimp pull force" is another, production level, crimp quality control 
method but the proper method requires making numerous crimps at various 
"crimp heights" (how reduced in dimension is the height of the crimp 
zone) and pull force testing the resultant crimps. The requires crimping 
by a machine or qualified hand crimp tool that is adjustable. The pull 
force values are plotted against crimp height and the shape of the curve 
examined. A crimp height resulting in a pull force just as the pull 
force begins to *decrease* after reaching a peak value is selected. A 
"looser" crimp is not "gas tight" and a "tighter" crimp reduces the 
cross-section area of the wire bundle enough to weaken the crimped 
connection. Crimped connections have to be crimped within a narrow zone 
of compression and only the appropriate crimp tool, appropriately 
calibrated, can provide this. Forget about all types of "crimp pliers;" 
these are worthless tools.




interesting...

And I assume, then, that the degree of compression (set by the dies and 
their position in the crimper) is wire gauge dependent - that is, the 
crimper doesn't crimp to a specific force, it crimps to a particular 
mechanical dimension, so if the number and size of strands is different, 
then the degree of crush is different.


That sort of makes the "crimping a tiny wire by folding it back on 
itself" or "crimping a tinywire by putting it with a big wire" a tricky 
operation.



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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[jimlux]

On 10/5/19 7:11 PM, Mark Goldberg wrote:



Building codes are published by the NFPA. They allow you to sign up and
view them online. You can't print them or save them, but at least you can
look things up and learn, even if you did not pay. I wish the IPC would do
the same.




what's even better is that you can also find the committee meetings for 
the code review/code making - that's where you find the "why" they have 
the "shall"




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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

On the typical West Mountain setup, the cable that goes from the power supply 
into 
the device tends to stay in place a *long* time. The other stuff gets moved 
around
allot. Indeed my preference is for the “newer” designs that don’t bring power 
in on 
a Power Pole.

Bob

> On Oct 5, 2019, at 8:11 PM, Jeremy Nichols  wrote:
> 
> For a connection that remains undisturbed for 20 to 30 years, could you get
> by with no connector at all?
> 
> 
> On Sat, Oct 5, 2019 at 6:03 PM Bob kb8tq  wrote:
> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> The biggest “issue” I’ve seen with Power Poles is that after being mated
>> for 20 to 30
>> years they start to loose the spring force that holds them together.
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>>> On Oct 5, 2019, at 11:45 AM, John Ackermann N8UR  wrote:
>>> 
>>> One thing the PowerPole tool does is provide a little cavity for the
>>> blade to go, so it keeps the depth of the crimp and also the angle where
>>> they should be.
>>> 
>>> On 10/5/19 7:24 AM, Adrian Godwin wrote:
 I used powerpoles on a project and tried to use a crimping tool I had to
 hand. Amphenol, I think. It appeared to be the right size but ended up
 bending the terminal badly where it changes from circular to flat. The
 results were unreliable and I ended up soldering (though adding
>> sleeving,
 which together with the natural bend-restriction on the shell has mostly
 avoided stiffening the wire where it's most vulnerable).
 
 I know some crimp terminal are very fussy about the tool used but it's
 usually the miniature ones like JST. Does the powerpole terminal need a
 powerpole-specific crimp tool ? I note that the West Mountain tool
>> seems to
 be branded by themselves rather than Anderson, but I can't tell if it's
 generic or made to their specs.
 
 On Sat, Oct 5, 2019 at 2:00 AM John Ackermann N8UR 
>> wrote:
 
> Not a perfect solution, but for semi-permanent connections you can run
>> a
> small tie-wrap lengthwise so the ends pass through the space between
>> where
> the wires on each end split and the body.  Cinch it tight and the
> connectors won't come apart without cutting the tie wrap.
> 
> On Oct 4, 2019, 7:04 PM, at 7:04 PM, Taka Kamiya via time-nuts <
> time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
>> I used to use power pole, too but they don't lock firmly enough for my
>> liking.  So I don't use them anymore.  It would be perfect if there is
>> an option to add positive locking mechanism of some kind.
>> 
>> ---
>> (Mr.) Taka Kamiya
>> KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
>> 
>> 
>> On Friday, October 4, 2019, 4:06:50 PM EDT, Didier Juges
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> That's what I do too. I do use Power Pole for my ham stuff that draws
>> high
>> current but for all the <2A 12V stuff the 5.1mm barrel connector with
>> positive center is hard to beat because I have so many power sources
>> and
>> equipment already wired for it. I am not ready to rewire all the off
>> the
>> shelf equipment that came with one of those.
>> 
>> Power Pole are convenient for batteries though because you can use the
>> connector to charge the battery or use it as a source.
>> 
>> Didier KO4BB
>> 
>> On Fri, Oct 4, 2019, 2:01 PM Taka Kamiya via time-nuts <
>> time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Mine is very simple
>>> USB connector for 5VBarrel connector 5.5/2.1mm for 12VTerminal strip
>> for
>>> 24V
>>> None of them are high power devices.
>>> 
>>> ---
>>> (Mr.) Taka Kamiya
>>> KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  On Friday, October 4, 2019, 2:03:55 AM EDT, Bill Dailey <
>>> docdai...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Setting up a new workbench and am wondering what wisdom people can
>>> offer.  I am powering numerous synthesizers (5v), small receivers
>> (5v),
>>> Upconverters (5v), larger receivers (12v), fury Gpsdo’s.. etc.
>> anyone use
>>> something neat and not real expensive for distributing 5v and 12v.  I
>> am
>>> hoping for a long COTS pcb with fusing and maybe holes for plugs.
>>> 
>>> Any insights?
>>> 
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>> Bill Dailey
>>> 
>>> Negativity always wins the short game. But positivity wins the long
>> game.
>>> - Gary Vaynerchuk
>>> 
>>> Don’t be easy to understand,
>>> Be impossible to misunderstand
>>> - Steve Sims
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>>> 
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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[jimlux]

On 10/5/19 5:37 PM, Scott McGrath wrote:

As to crimping tools it’s important to use the correct power pole tooling as 
the alignment of the crimp is critical to contact insertion.

Ive found the West Mountain Radio tool to be good for the smaller powerpoles  
I’ve got the Anderson crimper for the 75 amp powerpoles.

Anything larger - i use a local assembly house which has hydraulic crimpers for 
Anderson connectors.


 a sort of generic question, not specifically aimed at this application 
- there's a lot of specialized operations that are better left to 
someone that knows how to do it. How does one find such assembly houses?


It's not like the "yellow pages" are useful (or maybe they are, I've not 
looked recently).


Some of them I could figure out - if I needed big crimp lugs on 2/0 fine 
strand wire, I'd call around to welding supply places like airgas, and 
ask them.  But that is specialized knowledge in itself - I happen to 
know that Airgas is a welding supply place (as well as a supplier of 
bottled gases).



For instance, I'm, in the background, looking for companies that are 
interested in doing runs of qty:100-200 for a combined RF/digital 
device, including the RF test, etc. (see recent comment about swarms of 
satellites) There's plenty of board houses that will make boards (and 
assemblies), but they don't necessarily have RF expertise - and they're 
busy doing what they do, they aren't interested in setting up several 
hundred thousand dollars worth of test equipment and training people to 
use it.


So how does one find these companies?


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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Bill Beam]

On Sat, 5 Oct 2019 18:03:33 -0400, MLewis wrote:


Snip


>An engineer told me what was up, and I cut open some connections that 
>seemed solid to check. In each case there was a gob of solder at the 
>end, but only some trace solder within the first part of the strands, 
>with minimal contact between the wire and the crimp. I've cut one open a 
>number of times over the years since, to show such to people.

The engineer failed to explain why this is an electrical problem.

 (Note: 
>NASA will not accept crimped connections of tinned stranded or tinned 
>solid wire. I've no idea why, but I figure it's a given that they know a 
>lot more about terminations and connections than I ever will.)


I know why  They don't like diodes/rectifiers in connections.
Crimped connections can produce point contact junctions thru the
tinning layer resulting in rectification.

Snip

>I've heard a lot of speculation over the years as to why this difference 
>in clarity, but nothing that seems completely credible. The closest to 
>credible speculation I've heard is:
>- a poor connection results in multiple signal paths resulting in a 
>sightly overlapped signal so the signal is no longer clear, or

To create a multipath error of 1 electrical degree at 20KHz (inaudible) 
requires a path
error of about 30m.  Not going to happen in a cm connector.

>- a poor connection has multiple connections and combined with eddy

No eddy currents

>currents in the connector you can get tiny RC paths instead of a single 
>long connection, so you've got multiple re-injections of a delayed 
>signal that smooths tiny changes in voltage, which is your signal.

For R<~1ohm, C<~1pF the time constant is <~10e-12sec.  Not in the audio domain.

>Causation is clear. 

Not clear!

>The explanation? No idea.


The explination:  A poor connection rectifies.  For 1% difference between 
forward
and reverse conduction expect to hear about 1% THD.  To make matters worse the 
rectification will likely be nonlinear with current thru the connection further 
increasing THD.

Snip

Regards


Bill Beam
NL7F




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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution, Moderator comment

[Poul-Henning Kamp]

In message <38b5000d-c878-4470-943c-089153b15...@alignedsolutions.com>, Mark 
Spencer writes:

>The catalogue also lists retention clips [...]

I use those, they work fine.

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Larry McDavid]

I've used Power-Pole connectors for many years successfully and I've 
always crimped them with appropriate Power-Pole crimp tools. I never, 
never solder crimped connections! Heating a crimped connection to 
soldering temperature will relax the crimp force in the crimp zone and, 
if properly crimped, there is no gap among the wire strands for solder 
to flow into. The result is always a loss of connection quality.


Stranded wire can be tinned or coated with solder by the wire 
manufacturer and crimped successfully so long as the wire is 
"non-fused-tin-coated." But, much stranded tinned wire *is* fused to 
keep the strands together after removing the insulation; this type of 
stranded wire should not be crimped. Much MIL Spec wire is silver 
coated, inherently non-fused and crimps well.


Professionally (in both aerospace and high-rel automotive air bag 
applications), I've had the "crimp zone" of very many crimped connector 
contacts metallurgically mounted, cross-sectioned and examined 
microscopically after polishing and etching to reveal the individual 
strands even in the crimp zone. This is the ultimate method to "qualify" 
a crimped connection. A "gas-tight" crimp shows under microscopic 
examination no air gaps within the crimp zone--the crimped wire bundle 
has gone solid and is "gas tight."


"Crimp pull force" is another, production level, crimp quality control 
method but the proper method requires making numerous crimps at various 
"crimp heights" (how reduced in dimension is the height of the crimp 
zone) and pull force testing the resultant crimps. The requires crimping 
by a machine or qualified hand crimp tool that is adjustable. The pull 
force values are plotted against crimp height and the shape of the curve 
examined. A crimp height resulting in a pull force just as the pull 
force begins to *decrease* after reaching a peak value is selected. A 
"looser" crimp is not "gas tight" and a "tighter" crimp reduces the 
cross-section area of the wire bundle enough to weaken the crimped 
connection. Crimped connections have to be crimped within a narrow zone 
of compression and only the appropriate crimp tool, appropriately 
calibrated, can provide this. Forget about all types of "crimp pliers;" 
these are worthless tools.


Larry McDavid
40 years experience in electronic packaging and formerly engineering 
manager for a well-know connector manufacturer.



On 10/5/2019 3:03 PM, MLewis wrote:
The bulk of my wiring experience is with residential electrical (VAC) 
and audio signal cables & speaker cables, with some VDC in amplifiers. 
Most of the computer cables I needed I could order, so I wasn't usually 
terminating them myself.


With audio, it's pretty straight forward. A number of people figure 
they'll save some money and avoid the snake-oil cable sellers and make 
their own cables. So they buy the materials that others have found work 
well, they'd make some cables, and report they don't sound good. The 
sound simply isn't clear. Many don't seem to be able to make a quality 
solder joint. When they get their friend who knows how to solder to redo 
the connections, and the sound is clear. Others get steered to the 
crimping connectors, but use pliers or cheap crimping tools. Again, 
despite quality materials, not a clear sound. They're just not a quality 
connection. So they can learn to solder properly, and be at risk of the 
typical stress failures of soldered connections, or the more robust and 
much easier to learn path, buy a proper quality crimping tool and learn 
to use it. Great connection and repeatable.


Then there's the soldered crimp. It's astounding the number of times 
such a connection fails and the wire: moves back and forth, turns in 
place or pulls out. The heat from soldering expands the crimp, lowering 
its crimping pressure, for a poor crimp connection, but it's still tight 
enough while heated that the solder can't wick in. You end up with the 
combination of a poor crimp connection and a poor solder connection. I'd 
guess that with a poor enough crimping, there could be enough space to 
wick solder in...


An engineer told me what was up, and I cut open some connections that 
seemed solid to check. In each case there was a gob of solder at the 
end, but only some trace solder within the first part of the strands, 
with minimal contact between the wire and the crimp. I've cut one open a 
number of times over the years since, to show such to people. (Note: 
NASA will not accept crimped connections of tinned stranded or tinned 
solid wire. I've no idea why, but I figure it's a given that they know a 
lot more about terminations and connections than I ever will.)


So my first-hand personal experience is that I've seen dozens upon 
dozens of examples over four+ decades where an audio cable terminated 
with soldered crimps that did not sound clear, but replacing the 
terminations with properly soldered or properly crimped connections and 
the sound was then clear. Not a

Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Poul-Henning Kamp]

In message <6e619156-4cc4-f343-7a37-6c2f98b0e...@earthlink.net>, jimlux writes:

>For a Class D mission, there is a formal process (at JPL, anyway) where 
>you go through the roughly 700 "Design Principles" and "Flight Project 
>Practices" [...]

Are these available in a public document ?

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Malcolm Moore]

On 5/10/19 8:17 AM, MLewis wrote:
With audio signals, a soldered crimp is one of the worst possible 
connections. I wouldn't think it would be different for anything else, 
but may go undetected until failure. If you've used the correct size 
of crimp and used a proper crimping tool, then you've got the proper 
pressure for a solid reliable connection. If you then solder, the heat 
expands the crimp lessening the crimp pressure, and when it cools it's 
no longer at the correct crimp pressure (often the wire will pull 
right out), and with iffy wicking of solder. The worst of both methods 
combined in one.


Where the wire is too thin for the crimp I have available, I've cut a 
piece of a correct thickness wire/cable, inserted that into the crimp 
along with the signal wire/cable, so it's crimped between them. I 
don't know if that is the best way of handling that, but it's worked 
for me.


On 04/10/2019 11:41 AM, John Ackermann. N8UR wrote:
West Mountain is a good source for all things PowerPole, but there 
are a bunch of other vendors as well.  And do youself a favor -- 
spend $30 on the three size 15/30/45 amp crimping tool.  It saves 
much aggravation.  But if you're using thin wire, soldering after 
crimping is a good precaution.




"If you then solder, the heat expands the crimp lessening the crimp 
pressure, and when it cools it's no longer at the correct crimp pressure"


Usually crimp contacts are made of copper (PowerPole certainly are). The 
wire is copper. If the crimped joint is heated for soldering, both 
contact and wire will expand equally (they have the same coefficient of 
expansion), so crimp pressure will remain constant.



Crimping was developed to allow fast reliable joints during production 
using automation or lower skilled operators. Solder can produce very 
reliable joints but is time consuming and needs skilled workers.


My experience during over 40 years of mainly repair & maintenance is 
that crimping is fine when the correct tooling is available and both 
contacts and wire are in as new condition (that is there must be no 
tarnishing or discolouration, the first NASA link from jimlux gives that 
as a reason for prohibition of contacts). In low volume or one off 
situations such as the OP's request, where materials might be what's on 
hand and tooling is the generic type, then flowing solder into the joint 
is necessary for reliability. Heatshrink sleeving applied over the joint 
and extending beyond where solder may have wicked to provides good 
stress relief to prevent fracture. I've never had such a joint fail 
after a repair, whereas the original crimp only joint had failed.




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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Jeremy Nichols]

For a connection that remains undisturbed for 20 to 30 years, could you get
by with no connector at all?


On Sat, Oct 5, 2019 at 6:03 PM Bob kb8tq  wrote:

> Hi
>
> The biggest “issue” I’ve seen with Power Poles is that after being mated
> for 20 to 30
> years they start to loose the spring force that holds them together.
>
> Bob
>
> > On Oct 5, 2019, at 11:45 AM, John Ackermann N8UR  wrote:
> >
> > One thing the PowerPole tool does is provide a little cavity for the
> > blade to go, so it keeps the depth of the crimp and also the angle where
> > they should be.
> >
> > On 10/5/19 7:24 AM, Adrian Godwin wrote:
> >> I used powerpoles on a project and tried to use a crimping tool I had to
> >> hand. Amphenol, I think. It appeared to be the right size but ended up
> >> bending the terminal badly where it changes from circular to flat. The
> >> results were unreliable and I ended up soldering (though adding
> sleeving,
> >> which together with the natural bend-restriction on the shell has mostly
> >> avoided stiffening the wire where it's most vulnerable).
> >>
> >> I know some crimp terminal are very fussy about the tool used but it's
> >> usually the miniature ones like JST. Does the powerpole terminal need a
> >> powerpole-specific crimp tool ? I note that the West Mountain tool
> seems to
> >> be branded by themselves rather than Anderson, but I can't tell if it's
> >> generic or made to their specs.
> >>
> >> On Sat, Oct 5, 2019 at 2:00 AM John Ackermann N8UR 
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Not a perfect solution, but for semi-permanent connections you can run
> a
> >>> small tie-wrap lengthwise so the ends pass through the space between
> where
> >>> the wires on each end split and the body.  Cinch it tight and the
> >>> connectors won't come apart without cutting the tie wrap.
> >>>
> >>> On Oct 4, 2019, 7:04 PM, at 7:04 PM, Taka Kamiya via time-nuts <
> >>> time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
>  I used to use power pole, too but they don't lock firmly enough for my
>  liking.  So I don't use them anymore.  It would be perfect if there is
>  an option to add positive locking mechanism of some kind.
> 
>  ---
>  (Mr.) Taka Kamiya
>  KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
> 
> 
>  On Friday, October 4, 2019, 4:06:50 PM EDT, Didier Juges
>   wrote:
> 
>  That's what I do too. I do use Power Pole for my ham stuff that draws
>  high
>  current but for all the <2A 12V stuff the 5.1mm barrel connector with
>  positive center is hard to beat because I have so many power sources
>  and
>  equipment already wired for it. I am not ready to rewire all the off
>  the
>  shelf equipment that came with one of those.
> 
>  Power Pole are convenient for batteries though because you can use the
>  connector to charge the battery or use it as a source.
> 
>  Didier KO4BB
> 
>  On Fri, Oct 4, 2019, 2:01 PM Taka Kamiya via time-nuts <
>  time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
> 
> > Mine is very simple
> > USB connector for 5VBarrel connector 5.5/2.1mm for 12VTerminal strip
>  for
> > 24V
> > None of them are high power devices.
> >
> > ---
> > (Mr.) Taka Kamiya
> > KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
> >
> >
> >   On Friday, October 4, 2019, 2:03:55 AM EDT, Bill Dailey <
> > docdai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Setting up a new workbench and am wondering what wisdom people can
> > offer.  I am powering numerous synthesizers (5v), small receivers
>  (5v),
> > Upconverters (5v), larger receivers (12v), fury Gpsdo’s.. etc.
>  anyone use
> > something neat and not real expensive for distributing 5v and 12v.  I
>  am
> > hoping for a long COTS pcb with fusing and maybe holes for plugs.
> >
> > Any insights?
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > Bill Dailey
> >
> > Negativity always wins the short game. But positivity wins the long
>  game.
> > - Gary Vaynerchuk
> >
> > Don’t be easy to understand,
> > Be impossible to misunderstand
> > - Steve Sims
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to
> > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to
> > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
>  ___
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>  http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
>  and follow the instructions there.
> 
>  _

Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[jimlux]

On 10/5/19 3:35 PM, Hal Murray wrote:


jim...@earthlink.net said:

There is *great* resistance to changing any assembly and workmanship
standard - nobody wants to be the person who says "we don't need to do
*that* anymore" and then a disaster happens, and one of the potential  causes
is "you didn't do *that*"



It is entirely possible that the original rationale and explanation is  no
longer valid.


There is also a risk of troubles because you are still doing *that*.

Do the people who maintain the rules occasionally look around to see if a
better way has been developed?



TL,DR: Yes, but..


Sore point there - since my job these days is managing what are called 
Risk Class D missions, for which some of the (perceived) risk is that 
you don't have to follow all the process that is typical for Class A, B, 
and C missions. And I've had in flight failures where the spacecraft was 
lost (Ouch!) There's the question of "should we have followed some 
process that we didn't follow" - The idea is that process is expensive, 
and knowing acceptance of risk allows you to do things you could not 
otherwise do.



NASA divides missions into risk classes (NPR 8705.4), in terms of the 
"consequences of failure" or "national significance" or "difficulty of 
reflight" or cost ranging from A down to D. Class A is human or 
multibillion flagship; Class B is things like Mars rovers; Class C is 
"less than two year missions that cost less than $100M" kind of thing; 
Class D is "ok if it fails".


There is an enormous amount of "standard practice" for NASA missions - 
often derived from long experience, or, perhaps, from some "bad day" and 
a process/rule gets created that says "we're not going to do that again".


It's important to know that NASA, in general, does not do "reliability 
calculations" in a MIL-HDBK-217 way - there's no stacking up of 
individual part reliabilities to get an estimated system MTBF. This is 
historical - NASA typically builds "just one unit" (maybe 2 or 3) - so 
there's no chance to do life testing and build up statistics.  I think 
(Jim's opinion) that when they started coming up with process, the 
part/assembly reliability data had huge variances, so the resulting MTBF 
predictions spanned a wide range, or worse yet, said "failure is 
certain".  There's also a problem that parts reliability probably isn't 
the dominant factor for reliability - it's design (is that wire under 
tension causing it to break with thermal cycles) or workmanship (not in 
a good/bad sense, but a variability sense).


So there are tons of process to try and drive the variability of 
workmanship down - You don't just tighten a fastener, you torque it to a 
specified level, determined (in theory) by the design loads, etc.; and 
someone witnesses the torquing to make sure someone didn't forget to 
install the bolts.  Mistakes happen - the system tends to get paperwork 
heavy - and disasters have occurred because someone ignored the evidence 
of their hands/eyes and trusted the paper - NOAA N-prime is the case in 
point.  Interestingly, these are called "process escapes" - and there's 
a huge amount of work (multiple work years even for things where nothing 
bad happened) that goes into determining why someone did something 
that's outside the process - was it just a bad day? is the process 
itself inconvenient or incomplete, etc.   There is an intense amount of 
contemplation on changing the process - typically it was created because 
of a single bad event (NASA just doesn't build that many things), it 
addressed the causes of that event and appears to be a "good idea" for 
the future.  It then becomes part of the "received wisdom of the ages" 
and everyone does it - until some event triggers a reevaluations.


In general, the system is set up so that it's easier to just "do the 
standard thing" than to get a waiver to not do it. Getting the waiver 
typically requires that you *prove* in some sense that it won't increase 
risk, or that you've somehow backed yourself into a corner and there's 
no way to get the job done without it. The latter is the "willing 
acceptance of risk" and there's a lot of people who have to sign off on 
it - The NASA administrator does NOT want to sit in front of Congress 
explaining why a $500M mission was lost because a waiver was issued to 
not do something. "You mean, sir, that we saved a few hours labor and it 
cost us $500M?"  You don't get to say "There were 10,000 things, each 
that are individually a good idea, but if we did them all, the mission 
would have cost $1B, and you only gave us $500M"


For a Class D mission, there is a formal process (at JPL, anyway) where 
you go through the roughly 700 "Design Principles" and "Flight Project 
Practices" and identify which ones you will comply with, which you 
won't, and which are "comply with intent, but adjusted for this 
mission".  The DP and FPP are high level documents that describe "stuff 
you should do" - things like "you should hav

Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Scott McGrath]

As to crimping tools it’s important to use the correct power pole tooling as 
the alignment of the crimp is critical to contact insertion.   

Ive found the West Mountain Radio tool to be good for the smaller powerpoles  
I’ve got the Anderson crimper for the 75 amp powerpoles.

Anything larger - i use a local assembly house which has hydraulic crimpers for 
Anderson connectors.



On Oct 5, 2019, at 7:24 AM, Adrian Godwin  wrote:

I used powerpoles on a project and tried to use a crimping tool I had to
hand. Amphenol, I think. It appeared to be the right size but ended up
bending the terminal badly where it changes from circular to flat. The
results were unreliable and I ended up soldering (though adding sleeving,
which together with the natural bend-restriction on the shell has mostly
avoided stiffening the wire where it's most vulnerable).

I know some crimp terminal are very fussy about the tool used but it's
usually the miniature ones like JST. Does the powerpole terminal need a
powerpole-specific crimp tool ? I note that the West Mountain tool seems to
be branded by themselves rather than Anderson, but I can't tell if it's
generic or made to their specs.

> On Sat, Oct 5, 2019 at 2:00 AM John Ackermann N8UR  wrote:
> 
> Not a perfect solution, but for semi-permanent connections you can run a
> small tie-wrap lengthwise so the ends pass through the space between where
> the wires on each end split and the body.  Cinch it tight and the
> connectors won't come apart without cutting the tie wrap.
> 
> On Oct 4, 2019, 7:04 PM, at 7:04 PM, Taka Kamiya via time-nuts <
> time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
>> I used to use power pole, too but they don't lock firmly enough for my
>> liking.  So I don't use them anymore.  It would be perfect if there is
>> an option to add positive locking mechanism of some kind.
>> 
>> ---
>> (Mr.) Taka Kamiya
>> KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
>> 
>> 
>> On Friday, October 4, 2019, 4:06:50 PM EDT, Didier Juges
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> That's what I do too. I do use Power Pole for my ham stuff that draws
>> high
>> current but for all the <2A 12V stuff the 5.1mm barrel connector with
>> positive center is hard to beat because I have so many power sources
>> and
>> equipment already wired for it. I am not ready to rewire all the off
>> the
>> shelf equipment that came with one of those.
>> 
>> Power Pole are convenient for batteries though because you can use the
>> connector to charge the battery or use it as a source.
>> 
>> Didier KO4BB
>> 
>> On Fri, Oct 4, 2019, 2:01 PM Taka Kamiya via time-nuts <
>> time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Mine is very simple
>>> USB connector for 5VBarrel connector 5.5/2.1mm for 12VTerminal strip
>> for
>>> 24V
>>> None of them are high power devices.
>>> 
>>> ---
>>> (Mr.) Taka Kamiya
>>> KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
>>> 
>>> 
>>>   On Friday, October 4, 2019, 2:03:55 AM EDT, Bill Dailey <
>>> docdai...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Setting up a new workbench and am wondering what wisdom people can
>>> offer.  I am powering numerous synthesizers (5v), small receivers
>> (5v),
>>> Upconverters (5v), larger receivers (12v), fury Gpsdo’s.. etc.
>> anyone use
>>> something neat and not real expensive for distributing 5v and 12v.  I
>> am
>>> hoping for a long COTS pcb with fusing and maybe holes for plugs.
>>> 
>>> Any insights?
>>> 
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>> Bill Dailey
>>> 
>>> Negativity always wins the short game. But positivity wins the long
>> game.
>>> - Gary Vaynerchuk
>>> 
>>> Don’t be easy to understand,
>>> Be impossible to misunderstand
>>> - Steve Sims
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>> 
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
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>> and follow the instructions there.
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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Mark Goldberg]

On Sat, Oct 5, 2019 at 6:03 PM Hal Murray  wrote:

>
> Do the people who maintain the rules occasionally look around to see if a
> better way has been developed?
>

IPC, the Association Connecting Electronics Industries publishes a large
variety of standards that describe how to assemble electronic equipment.

IPC/WHMA-A-620 is a standard for wiring harnesses, and it includes
guidelines on soldering and crimping. It is updated every 5 years or so.
There are a lot more standards that preceded it and a lot more that are
used concurrently with it.

The problem is that you need to be a member of the organization or pay a
significant amount to see these specs. I would bet a number of the old
hands here have had training at some time or another on some of these
standards, but if you are no longer working at that job, the new revisions
and new training are not available to you.

Building codes are published by the NFPA. They allow you to sign up and
view them online. You can't print them or save them, but at least you can
look things up and learn, even if you did not pay. I wish the IPC would do
the same.

As to the original question, I have had very good luck with Anderson
Powerpoles and now only crimp them, using good crimpers. The Powerwerx
crimpers for 15/30/45 and 75 A work well for me.Their larger crimpers broke
very easily. I use hydraulic hex crimpers for larger sizes, and yes
sometimes multiple crimps with several sizes of metric dies are needed.
I've cut open / cross sectioned some of my crimps and verified that they
are good. The wire fills the terminal with no visible voids.

Regards,

Mark
W7MLG
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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution, Moderator comment

[Mark Spencer]

As the moderators seem ok with this topic.

I suspect my prior experience with power poles would have been better if I had 
been able to obtain some of the products contained in the Anderson Power 
Products catalogue  (ie. 45 amp contacts designed for high strand count wire, 
low or high mating force contacts etc.)

If anyone knows of a hobby friendly distributor that will ship small quantities 
of such components to Canada I would be happy to hear about that off list.  
Some of my amateur radio acquaintances think I am perhaps a bit to picky about 
worrying about these types of details, but in my view these types of details 
may be important in some applications.   To be transparent I didn't put a huge 
amount of effort into trying to source these types of components, so this may 
be "old news" to some.

The catalogue also lists retention clips that may be of interest to some (based 
on some prior comments about using cable ties to prevent the connectors from 
separating.)  I don't have any experience with the retention clips, but the 
catalogue description seems promising.

I'm hesitant to post the URL to the catalogue but it is easy to find via 
Google.  

Mark Spencer

m...@alignedsolutions.com
604 762 4099
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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Hal Murray]

jim...@earthlink.net said:
> There is *great* resistance to changing any assembly and workmanship
> standard - nobody wants to be the person who says "we don't need to do
> *that* anymore" and then a disaster happens, and one of the potential  causes
> is "you didn't do *that*"

> It is entirely possible that the original rationale and explanation is  no
> longer valid.

There is also a risk of troubles because you are still doing *that*.

Do the people who maintain the rules occasionally look around to see if a 
better way has been developed?



-- 
These are my opinions.  I hate spam.




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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[MLewis]

The bulk of my wiring experience is with residential electrical (VAC) 
and audio signal cables & speaker cables, with some VDC in amplifiers. 
Most of the computer cables I needed I could order, so I wasn't usually 
terminating them myself.


With audio, it's pretty straight forward. A number of people figure 
they'll save some money and avoid the snake-oil cable sellers and make 
their own cables. So they buy the materials that others have found work 
well, they'd make some cables, and report they don't sound good. The 
sound simply isn't clear. Many don't seem to be able to make a quality 
solder joint. When they get their friend who knows how to solder to redo 
the connections, and the sound is clear. Others get steered to the 
crimping connectors, but use pliers or cheap crimping tools. Again, 
despite quality materials, not a clear sound. They're just not a quality 
connection. So they can learn to solder properly, and be at risk of the 
typical stress failures of soldered connections, or the more robust and 
much easier to learn path, buy a proper quality crimping tool and learn 
to use it. Great connection and repeatable.


Then there's the soldered crimp. It's astounding the number of times 
such a connection fails and the wire: moves back and forth, turns in 
place or pulls out. The heat from soldering expands the crimp, lowering 
its crimping pressure, for a poor crimp connection, but it's still tight 
enough while heated that the solder can't wick in. You end up with the 
combination of a poor crimp connection and a poor solder connection. I'd 
guess that with a poor enough crimping, there could be enough space to 
wick solder in...


An engineer told me what was up, and I cut open some connections that 
seemed solid to check. In each case there was a gob of solder at the 
end, but only some trace solder within the first part of the strands, 
with minimal contact between the wire and the crimp. I've cut one open a 
number of times over the years since, to show such to people. (Note: 
NASA will not accept crimped connections of tinned stranded or tinned 
solid wire. I've no idea why, but I figure it's a given that they know a 
lot more about terminations and connections than I ever will.)


So my first-hand personal experience is that I've seen dozens upon 
dozens of examples over four+ decades where an audio cable terminated 
with soldered crimps that did not sound clear, but replacing the 
terminations with properly soldered or properly crimped connections and 
the sound was then clear. Not a subtle difference, but at minimum a 
strong improvement, and usually a night and day difference. Now for 
quality consistency, I only use crimps for audio connections and choose 
connectors accordingly.


I've heard a lot of speculation over the years as to why this difference 
in clarity, but nothing that seems completely credible. The closest to 
credible speculation I've heard is:
- a poor connection results in multiple signal paths resulting in a 
sightly overlapped signal so the signal is no longer clear, or
- a poor connection has multiple connections and combined with eddy 
currents in the connector you can get tiny RC paths instead of a single 
long connection, so you've got multiple re-injections of a delayed 
signal that smooths tiny changes in voltage, which is your signal.

Causation is clear. The explanation? No idea.

I've heard people say that all this analogue cable stuff doesn't matter 
for digital signals because it's digital. Except that if one reads the 
specs, the "digital" signal is really an digitally encoded analogue 
signal. Back in the main-frame era, a number of times I was able to 
correct throughput degradation or outright failure by addressing cable 
issues (poor connections, shielding grounding, co-located cables of 
identical length so they're sometimes surprisingly effective as 
sending/receiving antennas, etc.) that techs thought would only apply in 
analogue signals.


So where someone is transferring a timing signal down a cable, depending 
on the frequency a quality termination/connection may be important, not 
only to the longevity of the cable, but to the quality of the signal, 
hence the ease, speed or consistency with which it drives and triggers 
what is reading it.


And for power connections, you don't want to hope you detect the signs 
of a failing loose connection due to heat, arc smells, etc. (like the 
mushroom-cap screw heads on terminations for containment & detection), 
before it outright fails, nor a conductor that comes free if the 
wire-to-solder connection breaks. The welded connection is new to me, 
but sounds like it could befit in some applications. If you've enough 
power and the connection is not tight, I have seem some conductors weld 
themselves to a terminal, often with a thin connection; but usually it's 
material gets blown away and the conductor is now loose. Lithium battery 
packs can deliver some surprising current.


So again, I don't thi

Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

The biggest “issue” I’ve seen with Power Poles is that after being mated for 20 
to 30 
years they start to loose the spring force that holds them together.

Bob

> On Oct 5, 2019, at 11:45 AM, John Ackermann N8UR  wrote:
> 
> One thing the PowerPole tool does is provide a little cavity for the
> blade to go, so it keeps the depth of the crimp and also the angle where
> they should be.
> 
> On 10/5/19 7:24 AM, Adrian Godwin wrote:
>> I used powerpoles on a project and tried to use a crimping tool I had to
>> hand. Amphenol, I think. It appeared to be the right size but ended up
>> bending the terminal badly where it changes from circular to flat. The
>> results were unreliable and I ended up soldering (though adding sleeving,
>> which together with the natural bend-restriction on the shell has mostly
>> avoided stiffening the wire where it's most vulnerable).
>> 
>> I know some crimp terminal are very fussy about the tool used but it's
>> usually the miniature ones like JST. Does the powerpole terminal need a
>> powerpole-specific crimp tool ? I note that the West Mountain tool seems to
>> be branded by themselves rather than Anderson, but I can't tell if it's
>> generic or made to their specs.
>> 
>> On Sat, Oct 5, 2019 at 2:00 AM John Ackermann N8UR  wrote:
>> 
>>> Not a perfect solution, but for semi-permanent connections you can run a
>>> small tie-wrap lengthwise so the ends pass through the space between where
>>> the wires on each end split and the body.  Cinch it tight and the
>>> connectors won't come apart without cutting the tie wrap.
>>> 
>>> On Oct 4, 2019, 7:04 PM, at 7:04 PM, Taka Kamiya via time-nuts <
>>> time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
 I used to use power pole, too but they don't lock firmly enough for my
 liking.  So I don't use them anymore.  It would be perfect if there is
 an option to add positive locking mechanism of some kind.
 
 ---
 (Mr.) Taka Kamiya
 KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
 
 
 On Friday, October 4, 2019, 4:06:50 PM EDT, Didier Juges
  wrote:
 
 That's what I do too. I do use Power Pole for my ham stuff that draws
 high
 current but for all the <2A 12V stuff the 5.1mm barrel connector with
 positive center is hard to beat because I have so many power sources
 and
 equipment already wired for it. I am not ready to rewire all the off
 the
 shelf equipment that came with one of those.
 
 Power Pole are convenient for batteries though because you can use the
 connector to charge the battery or use it as a source.
 
 Didier KO4BB
 
 On Fri, Oct 4, 2019, 2:01 PM Taka Kamiya via time-nuts <
 time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
 
> Mine is very simple
> USB connector for 5VBarrel connector 5.5/2.1mm for 12VTerminal strip
 for
> 24V
> None of them are high power devices.
> 
> ---
> (Mr.) Taka Kamiya
> KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
> 
> 
>   On Friday, October 4, 2019, 2:03:55 AM EDT, Bill Dailey <
> docdai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Setting up a new workbench and am wondering what wisdom people can
> offer.  I am powering numerous synthesizers (5v), small receivers
 (5v),
> Upconverters (5v), larger receivers (12v), fury Gpsdo’s.. etc.
 anyone use
> something neat and not real expensive for distributing 5v and 12v.  I
 am
> hoping for a long COTS pcb with fusing and maybe holes for plugs.
> 
> Any insights?
> 
> Bill
> 
> Bill Dailey
> 
> Negativity always wins the short game. But positivity wins the long
 game.
> - Gary Vaynerchuk
> 
> Don’t be easy to understand,
> Be impossible to misunderstand
> - Steve Sims
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
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> 
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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution, Moderator comment

[Tom Van Baak]

Yes, this PowerPole thread has gone on and on. I realize that not all of 
you are interested, but IMHO it is very on-topic for time-nuts. Many of 
us have non-trivial home or mobile labs and practical issues of DC power 
are relevant and welcome. I've been using PowerPole connectors for 
everything and even I learned a lot from the thread. So thanks for the 
contributions.


We've had a couple of threads last week that stressed the list, created 
exceptions, caused a backlog of postings and a decline in S/N. When 
posting please try to keep the content highly technical and informative. 
There were times last week where it looked more like twitter than a 
technical forum.


Questions or suggestions about list administrative issues should go to 
time-nuts-ow...@lists.febo.com


Thanks,
/tvb
Moderator, http://leapsecond.com/time-nuts.htm

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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[William H. Fite]

A solid crimp is, I believe, generally held to be more than a solder joint
but this is in no way specific to audio cables.



On Saturday, October 5, 2019, jimlux  wrote:

> On 10/4/19 1:41 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
>
>> 
>> In message <5d979ac0.80...@rogers.com>, MLewis writes:
>>
>> With audio signals, a soldered crimp is one of the worst possible
>>> connections.
>>>
>>
>> Dabbling in audio-homoepathy are we ?
>>
>> No, don't bother responding unless you have a reference to peer-reviewed
>> scientific documentation for you claim.
>>
>>
>
> well..
> https://nepp.nasa.gov/files/27631/NSTD87394A.pdf
>
> doesn't give why, and doesn't explicitly say "don't crimp and solder" but
> does basically say "crimp crimp connectors and solder solder connectors"
>
> TE "Crimp Theory Fundamentals; Advanced" - explanation of what makes a
> good crimp, doesn't discuss solder
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAO9eCS65jw
>
> There are actually splices designed to be crimped and soldered - but I
> suspect their applicability is for specific applications.
>
>
> On Monday, I will try to find one of the connector reliability people for
> some references.  One challenge is that these practices ("don't solder
> crimped connectors") have been around for a long time (at least 70 years),
> so there may not be recent published information on it. (recent papers I
> found on solder joint reliability are all about PWB connections - esp BGA,
> CGA, etc.)
>
> And, to be honest, materials have changed.
>
> There is *great* resistance to changing any assembly and workmanship
> standard - nobody wants to be the person who says "we don't need to do
> *that* anymore" and then a disaster happens, and one of the potential
> causes is "you didn't do *that*"
>
> It is entirely possible that the original rationale and explanation is no
> longer valid.
>
> There is no question that in a vibration environment, solder is deprecated
> (it's hard, brittle, work hardens, etc), not to mention all the issues with
> RoHS.  That said they do use solder joints in high reliability systems -
> just with attention to the support of the wire.
>
> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14686996.2019.1640072
> https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20100029736.pdf
>
>
>
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> listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
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>


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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Mark Spencer]

I seem to recall being involved in a project where a PEng called for certain 
connectors to be soldered and crimped.  I expect there were specific reasons 
why that was specified for that particular project.  My memory is a bit hazy 
about the specific details of the connectors.

Re power poles..  I'm not a huge fan of them for my hobby used but I seem to 
recall commenting re this a few years ago and won't take up any more bandwidth 
re this.  I do own some equipment that uses them, and   a number of friends of 
mine seem quite happy with them for amateur radio use.  

All the best
Mark S


m...@alignedsolutions.com
604 762 4099

>> On Oct 5, 2019, at 5:49 AM, jimlux  wrote:
>> 
>> On 10/4/19 1:41 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
>> 
>> In message <5d979ac0.80...@rogers.com>, MLewis writes:
>>> With audio signals, a soldered crimp is one of the worst possible
>>> connections.
>> Dabbling in audio-homoepathy are we ?
>> No, don't bother responding unless you have a reference to peer-reviewed
>> scientific documentation for you claim.
> 
> 
> well..
> https://nepp.nasa.gov/files/27631/NSTD87394A.pdf
> 
> doesn't give why, and doesn't explicitly say "don't crimp and solder" but 
> does basically say "crimp crimp connectors and solder solder connectors"
> 
> TE "Crimp Theory Fundamentals; Advanced" - explanation of what makes a good 
> crimp, doesn't discuss solder
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAO9eCS65jw
> 
> There are actually splices designed to be crimped and soldered - but I 
> suspect their applicability is for specific applications.
> 
> 
> On Monday, I will try to find one of the connector reliability people for 
> some references.  One challenge is that these practices ("don't solder 
> crimped connectors") have been around for a long time (at least 70 years), so 
> there may not be recent published information on it. (recent papers I found 
> on solder joint reliability are all about PWB connections - esp BGA, CGA, 
> etc.)
> 
> And, to be honest, materials have changed.
> 
> There is *great* resistance to changing any assembly and workmanship standard 
> - nobody wants to be the person who says "we don't need to do *that* anymore" 
> and then a disaster happens, and one of the potential causes is "you didn't 
> do *that*"
> 
> It is entirely possible that the original rationale and explanation is no 
> longer valid.
> 
> There is no question that in a vibration environment, solder is deprecated 
> (it's hard, brittle, work hardens, etc), not to mention all the issues with 
> RoHS.  That said they do use solder joints in high reliability systems - just 
> with attention to the support of the wire.
> 
> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14686996.2019.1640072
> https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20100029736.pdf
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[W7SLS - Scott Scheirman]

The Tri-Crimp (purchased from WMR of Powerwerx) has worked for me for hundreds 
of crimps (of the 15-30-45 amp power poles)

The WMR crimper for AWG 6 and 8 works well for the 75 A connectors

Crimping the larger (e.g. 175 Amp) Power Poles is “interesting”, in that 
readily available (sub US$ 150) crimpers seem to be metric.  Sometimes it takes 
a couple of crimps with different dies (sizes) to get it right

Good luck
S

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 5, 2019, at 10:16 AM, Adrian Godwin  wrote:
> 
> I used powerpoles on a project and tried to use a crimping tool I had to
> hand. Amphenol, I think. It appeared to be the right size but ended up
> bending the terminal badly where it changes from circular to flat. The
> results were unreliable and I ended up soldering (though adding sleeving,
> which together with the natural bend-restriction on the shell has mostly
> avoided stiffening the wire where it's most vulnerable).
> 
> I know some crimp terminal are very fussy about the tool used but it's
> usually the miniature ones like JST. Does the powerpole terminal need a
> powerpole-specific crimp tool ? I note that the West Mountain tool seems to
> be branded by themselves rather than Anderson, but I can't tell if it's
> generic or made to their specs.
> 
>> On Sat, Oct 5, 2019 at 2:00 AM John Ackermann N8UR  wrote:
>> 
>> Not a perfect solution, but for semi-permanent connections you can run a
>> small tie-wrap lengthwise so the ends pass through the space between where
>> the wires on each end split and the body.  Cinch it tight and the
>> connectors won't come apart without cutting the tie wrap.
>> 
>>> On Oct 4, 2019, 7:04 PM, at 7:04 PM, Taka Kamiya via time-nuts <
>>> time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
>>> I used to use power pole, too but they don't lock firmly enough for my
>>> liking.  So I don't use them anymore.  It would be perfect if there is
>>> an option to add positive locking mechanism of some kind.
>>> 
>>> ---
>>> (Mr.) Taka Kamiya
>>> KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Friday, October 4, 2019, 4:06:50 PM EDT, Didier Juges
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> That's what I do too. I do use Power Pole for my ham stuff that draws
>>> high
>>> current but for all the <2A 12V stuff the 5.1mm barrel connector with
>>> positive center is hard to beat because I have so many power sources
>>> and
>>> equipment already wired for it. I am not ready to rewire all the off
>>> the
>>> shelf equipment that came with one of those.
>>> 
>>> Power Pole are convenient for batteries though because you can use the
>>> connector to charge the battery or use it as a source.
>>> 
>>> Didier KO4BB
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Oct 4, 2019, 2:01 PM Taka Kamiya via time-nuts <
>>> time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
>>> 
 Mine is very simple
 USB connector for 5VBarrel connector 5.5/2.1mm for 12VTerminal strip
>>> for
 24V
 None of them are high power devices.
 
 ---
 (Mr.) Taka Kamiya
 KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
 
 
   On Friday, October 4, 2019, 2:03:55 AM EDT, Bill Dailey <
 docdai...@gmail.com> wrote:
 
 Setting up a new workbench and am wondering what wisdom people can
 offer.  I am powering numerous synthesizers (5v), small receivers
>>> (5v),
 Upconverters (5v), larger receivers (12v), fury Gpsdo’s.. etc.
>>> anyone use
 something neat and not real expensive for distributing 5v and 12v.  I
>>> am
 hoping for a long COTS pcb with fusing and maybe holes for plugs.
 
 Any insights?
 
 Bill
 
 Bill Dailey
 
 Negativity always wins the short game. But positivity wins the long
>>> game.
 - Gary Vaynerchuk
 
 Don’t be easy to understand,
 Be impossible to misunderstand
 - Steve Sims
 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
 To unsubscribe, go to
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 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
 To unsubscribe, go to
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>>> ___
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>>> and follow the instructions there.
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>> and follow th

Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[John Ackermann N8UR]

One thing the PowerPole tool does is provide a little cavity for the
blade to go, so it keeps the depth of the crimp and also the angle where
they should be.

On 10/5/19 7:24 AM, Adrian Godwin wrote:
> I used powerpoles on a project and tried to use a crimping tool I had to
> hand. Amphenol, I think. It appeared to be the right size but ended up
> bending the terminal badly where it changes from circular to flat. The
> results were unreliable and I ended up soldering (though adding sleeving,
> which together with the natural bend-restriction on the shell has mostly
> avoided stiffening the wire where it's most vulnerable).
> 
> I know some crimp terminal are very fussy about the tool used but it's
> usually the miniature ones like JST. Does the powerpole terminal need a
> powerpole-specific crimp tool ? I note that the West Mountain tool seems to
> be branded by themselves rather than Anderson, but I can't tell if it's
> generic or made to their specs.
> 
> On Sat, Oct 5, 2019 at 2:00 AM John Ackermann N8UR  wrote:
> 
>> Not a perfect solution, but for semi-permanent connections you can run a
>> small tie-wrap lengthwise so the ends pass through the space between where
>> the wires on each end split and the body.  Cinch it tight and the
>> connectors won't come apart without cutting the tie wrap.
>>
>> On Oct 4, 2019, 7:04 PM, at 7:04 PM, Taka Kamiya via time-nuts <
>> time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
>>> I used to use power pole, too but they don't lock firmly enough for my
>>> liking.  So I don't use them anymore.  It would be perfect if there is
>>> an option to add positive locking mechanism of some kind.
>>>
>>> ---
>>> (Mr.) Taka Kamiya
>>> KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, October 4, 2019, 4:06:50 PM EDT, Didier Juges
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> That's what I do too. I do use Power Pole for my ham stuff that draws
>>> high
>>> current but for all the <2A 12V stuff the 5.1mm barrel connector with
>>> positive center is hard to beat because I have so many power sources
>>> and
>>> equipment already wired for it. I am not ready to rewire all the off
>>> the
>>> shelf equipment that came with one of those.
>>>
>>> Power Pole are convenient for batteries though because you can use the
>>> connector to charge the battery or use it as a source.
>>>
>>> Didier KO4BB
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 4, 2019, 2:01 PM Taka Kamiya via time-nuts <
>>> time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
>>>
 Mine is very simple
 USB connector for 5VBarrel connector 5.5/2.1mm for 12VTerminal strip
>>> for
 24V
 None of them are high power devices.

 ---
 (Mr.) Taka Kamiya
 KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG


On Friday, October 4, 2019, 2:03:55 AM EDT, Bill Dailey <
 docdai...@gmail.com> wrote:

  Setting up a new workbench and am wondering what wisdom people can
 offer.  I am powering numerous synthesizers (5v), small receivers
>>> (5v),
 Upconverters (5v), larger receivers (12v), fury Gpsdo’s.. etc.
>>> anyone use
 something neat and not real expensive for distributing 5v and 12v.  I
>>> am
 hoping for a long COTS pcb with fusing and maybe holes for plugs.

 Any insights?

 Bill

 Bill Dailey

 Negativity always wins the short game. But positivity wins the long
>>> game.
 - Gary Vaynerchuk

 Don’t be easy to understand,
 Be impossible to misunderstand
 - Steve Sims
 ___
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 ___
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 To unsubscribe, go to
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>>> ___
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>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>
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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Wes]

On 10/4/2019 12:17 PM, MLewis wrote:

With audio signals, a soldered crimp is one of the worst possible connections.


 Please explain.

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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Poul-Henning Kamp]

In message <9e07d884-3d64-1b3a-f753-233cac347...@earthlink.net>, jimlux writes:
>On 10/4/19 1:41 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
>> 
>> In message <5d979ac0.80...@rogers.com>, MLewis writes:
>> 
>>> With audio signals, a soldered crimp is one of the worst possible
>>> connections.
>> 
>> Dabbling in audio-homoepathy are we ?
>> 
>> No, don't bother responding unless you have a reference to peer-reviewed
>> scientific documentation for you claim.
>
>well..
>https://nepp.nasa.gov/files/27631/NSTD87394A.pdf
>
>doesn't give why, and doesn't explicitly say "don't crimp and solder" 
>but does basically say "crimp crimp connectors and solder solder connectors"

But it doesn't say anything about "with audio signals" at all,
which is the part that triggers my bullshit filter...

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Adrian Godwin]

I used powerpoles on a project and tried to use a crimping tool I had to
hand. Amphenol, I think. It appeared to be the right size but ended up
bending the terminal badly where it changes from circular to flat. The
results were unreliable and I ended up soldering (though adding sleeving,
which together with the natural bend-restriction on the shell has mostly
avoided stiffening the wire where it's most vulnerable).

I know some crimp terminal are very fussy about the tool used but it's
usually the miniature ones like JST. Does the powerpole terminal need a
powerpole-specific crimp tool ? I note that the West Mountain tool seems to
be branded by themselves rather than Anderson, but I can't tell if it's
generic or made to their specs.

On Sat, Oct 5, 2019 at 2:00 AM John Ackermann N8UR  wrote:

> Not a perfect solution, but for semi-permanent connections you can run a
> small tie-wrap lengthwise so the ends pass through the space between where
> the wires on each end split and the body.  Cinch it tight and the
> connectors won't come apart without cutting the tie wrap.
>
> On Oct 4, 2019, 7:04 PM, at 7:04 PM, Taka Kamiya via time-nuts <
> time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
> >I used to use power pole, too but they don't lock firmly enough for my
> >liking.  So I don't use them anymore.  It would be perfect if there is
> >an option to add positive locking mechanism of some kind.
> >
> >---
> >(Mr.) Taka Kamiya
> >KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
> >
> >
> >On Friday, October 4, 2019, 4:06:50 PM EDT, Didier Juges
> > wrote:
> >
> >That's what I do too. I do use Power Pole for my ham stuff that draws
> >high
> >current but for all the <2A 12V stuff the 5.1mm barrel connector with
> >positive center is hard to beat because I have so many power sources
> >and
> >equipment already wired for it. I am not ready to rewire all the off
> >the
> >shelf equipment that came with one of those.
> >
> >Power Pole are convenient for batteries though because you can use the
> >connector to charge the battery or use it as a source.
> >
> >Didier KO4BB
> >
> >On Fri, Oct 4, 2019, 2:01 PM Taka Kamiya via time-nuts <
> >time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Mine is very simple
> >> USB connector for 5VBarrel connector 5.5/2.1mm for 12VTerminal strip
> >for
> >> 24V
> >> None of them are high power devices.
> >>
> >> ---
> >> (Mr.) Taka Kamiya
> >> KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
> >>
> >>
> >>On Friday, October 4, 2019, 2:03:55 AM EDT, Bill Dailey <
> >> docdai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>  Setting up a new workbench and am wondering what wisdom people can
> >> offer.  I am powering numerous synthesizers (5v), small receivers
> >(5v),
> >> Upconverters (5v), larger receivers (12v), fury Gpsdo’s.. etc.
> >anyone use
> >> something neat and not real expensive for distributing 5v and 12v.  I
> >am
> >> hoping for a long COTS pcb with fusing and maybe holes for plugs.
> >>
> >> Any insights?
> >>
> >> Bill
> >>
> >> Bill Dailey
> >>
> >> Negativity always wins the short game. But positivity wins the long
> >game.
> >> - Gary Vaynerchuk
> >>
> >> Don’t be easy to understand,
> >> Be impossible to misunderstand
> >> - Steve Sims
> >> ___
> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> >> To unsubscribe, go to
> >> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> >> and follow the instructions there.
> >>
> >> ___
> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> >> To unsubscribe, go to
> >> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> >> and follow the instructions there.
> >>
> >___
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> >To unsubscribe, go to
> >http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> >and follow the instructions there.
> >
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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[jimlux]

On 10/4/19 1:41 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:


In message <5d979ac0.80...@rogers.com>, MLewis writes:


With audio signals, a soldered crimp is one of the worst possible
connections.


Dabbling in audio-homoepathy are we ?

No, don't bother responding unless you have a reference to peer-reviewed
scientific documentation for you claim.




well..
https://nepp.nasa.gov/files/27631/NSTD87394A.pdf

doesn't give why, and doesn't explicitly say "don't crimp and solder" 
but does basically say "crimp crimp connectors and solder solder connectors"


TE "Crimp Theory Fundamentals; Advanced" - explanation of what makes a 
good crimp, doesn't discuss solder

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAO9eCS65jw

There are actually splices designed to be crimped and soldered - but I 
suspect their applicability is for specific applications.



On Monday, I will try to find one of the connector reliability people 
for some references.  One challenge is that these practices ("don't 
solder crimped connectors") have been around for a long time (at least 
70 years), so there may not be recent published information on it. 
(recent papers I found on solder joint reliability are all about PWB 
connections - esp BGA, CGA, etc.)


And, to be honest, materials have changed.

There is *great* resistance to changing any assembly and workmanship 
standard - nobody wants to be the person who says "we don't need to do 
*that* anymore" and then a disaster happens, and one of the potential 
causes is "you didn't do *that*"


It is entirely possible that the original rationale and explanation is 
no longer valid.


There is no question that in a vibration environment, solder is 
deprecated (it's hard, brittle, work hardens, etc), not to mention all 
the issues with RoHS.  That said they do use solder joints in high 
reliability systems - just with attention to the support of the wire.


https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14686996.2019.1640072
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20100029736.pdf



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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Scott McGrath]

+1 for powerpole connectors and purchasing a proper ratcheting crimper for the 
powerpoles.   AND being willing to discard marginal crimps.

 

Content by Scott
Typos by Siri

On Oct 4, 2019, at 5:38 PM, Bill Dailey  wrote:

There are locks you can get.  I saw them on Mountain West today.

Bill Dailey

Negativity always wins the short game. But positivity wins the long game. - 
Gary Vaynerchuk

Don’t be easy to understand, 
Be impossible to misunderstand 
- Steve Sims

> On Oct 4, 2019, at 6:04 PM, Taka Kamiya via time-nuts 
>  wrote:
> 
> I used to use power pole, too but they don't lock firmly enough for my 
> liking.  So I don't use them anymore.  It would be perfect if there is an 
> option to add positive locking mechanism of some kind.
> 
> --- 
> (Mr.) Taka Kamiya
> KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
> 
> 
>   On Friday, October 4, 2019, 4:06:50 PM EDT, Didier Juges 
>  wrote:  
> 
> That's what I do too. I do use Power Pole for my ham stuff that draws high
> current but for all the <2A 12V stuff the 5.1mm barrel connector with
> positive center is hard to beat because I have so many power sources and
> equipment already wired for it. I am not ready to rewire all the off the
> shelf equipment that came with one of those.
> 
> Power Pole are convenient for batteries though because you can use the
> connector to charge the battery or use it as a source.
> 
> Didier KO4BB
> 
>> On Fri, Oct 4, 2019, 2:01 PM Taka Kamiya via time-nuts <
>> time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Mine is very simple
>> USB connector for 5VBarrel connector 5.5/2.1mm for 12VTerminal strip for
>> 24V
>> None of them are high power devices.
>> 
>> ---
>> (Mr.) Taka Kamiya
>> KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
>> 
>> 
>>On Friday, October 4, 2019, 2:03:55 AM EDT, Bill Dailey <
>> docdai...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>  Setting up a new workbench and am wondering what wisdom people can
>> offer.  I am powering numerous synthesizers (5v), small receivers (5v),
>> Upconverters (5v), larger receivers (12v), fury Gpsdo’s.. etc.  anyone use
>> something neat and not real expensive for distributing 5v and 12v.  I am
>> hoping for a long COTS pcb with fusing and maybe holes for plugs.
>> 
>> Any insights?
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
>> Bill Dailey
>> 
>> Negativity always wins the short game. But positivity wins the long game.
>> - Gary Vaynerchuk
>> 
>> Don’t be easy to understand,
>> Be impossible to misunderstand
>> - Steve Sims
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
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>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[John Ackermann N8UR]

Not a perfect solution, but for semi-permanent connections you can run a small 
tie-wrap lengthwise so the ends pass through the space between where the wires 
on each end split and the body.  Cinch it tight and the connectors won't come 
apart without cutting the tie wrap.

On Oct 4, 2019, 7:04 PM, at 7:04 PM, Taka Kamiya via time-nuts 
 wrote:
>I used to use power pole, too but they don't lock firmly enough for my
>liking.  So I don't use them anymore.  It would be perfect if there is
>an option to add positive locking mechanism of some kind.
>
>--- 
>(Mr.) Taka Kamiya
>KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
> 
>
>On Friday, October 4, 2019, 4:06:50 PM EDT, Didier Juges
> wrote:  
> 
>That's what I do too. I do use Power Pole for my ham stuff that draws
>high
>current but for all the <2A 12V stuff the 5.1mm barrel connector with
>positive center is hard to beat because I have so many power sources
>and
>equipment already wired for it. I am not ready to rewire all the off
>the
>shelf equipment that came with one of those.
>
>Power Pole are convenient for batteries though because you can use the
>connector to charge the battery or use it as a source.
>
>Didier KO4BB
>
>On Fri, Oct 4, 2019, 2:01 PM Taka Kamiya via time-nuts <
>time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
>
>> Mine is very simple
>> USB connector for 5VBarrel connector 5.5/2.1mm for 12VTerminal strip
>for
>> 24V
>> None of them are high power devices.
>>
>> ---
>> (Mr.) Taka Kamiya
>> KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
>>
>>
>>    On Friday, October 4, 2019, 2:03:55 AM EDT, Bill Dailey <
>> docdai...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>  Setting up a new workbench and am wondering what wisdom people can
>> offer.  I am powering numerous synthesizers (5v), small receivers
>(5v),
>> Upconverters (5v), larger receivers (12v), fury Gpsdo’s.. etc. 
>anyone use
>> something neat and not real expensive for distributing 5v and 12v.  I
>am
>> hoping for a long COTS pcb with fusing and maybe holes for plugs.
>>
>> Any insights?
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> Bill Dailey
>>
>> Negativity always wins the short game. But positivity wins the long
>game.
>> - Gary Vaynerchuk
>>
>> Don’t be easy to understand,
>> Be impossible to misunderstand
>> - Steve Sims
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
>> ___
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>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[W7SLS - Scott Scheirman]

Many ways to lock them

Insert a small 3”? tie wrap from one hole to the other, or use those twist ties 
that usb and power cables ship with, or use the locking mechanisms from WMR, 
and/or ...

Good luck whatever you decide is right for your situation 

Scott 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 4, 2019, at 4:04 PM, Taka Kamiya via time-nuts 
>  wrote:
> 
> I used to use power pole, too but they don't lock firmly enough for my 
> liking.  So I don't use them anymore.  It would be perfect if there is an 
> option to add positive locking mechanism of some kind.
> 
> --- 
> (Mr.) Taka Kamiya
> KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
> 
> 
>On Friday, October 4, 2019, 4:06:50 PM EDT, Didier Juges 
>  wrote:  
> 
> That's what I do too. I do use Power Pole for my ham stuff that draws high
> current but for all the <2A 12V stuff the 5.1mm barrel connector with
> positive center is hard to beat because I have so many power sources and
> equipment already wired for it. I am not ready to rewire all the off the
> shelf equipment that came with one of those.
> 
> Power Pole are convenient for batteries though because you can use the
> connector to charge the battery or use it as a source.
> 
> Didier KO4BB
> 
>> On Fri, Oct 4, 2019, 2:01 PM Taka Kamiya via time-nuts <
>> time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Mine is very simple
>> USB connector for 5VBarrel connector 5.5/2.1mm for 12VTerminal strip for
>> 24V
>> None of them are high power devices.
>> 
>> ---
>> (Mr.) Taka Kamiya
>> KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
>> 
>> 
>> On Friday, October 4, 2019, 2:03:55 AM EDT, Bill Dailey <
>> docdai...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>   Setting up a new workbench and am wondering what wisdom people can
>> offer.  I am powering numerous synthesizers (5v), small receivers (5v),
>> Upconverters (5v), larger receivers (12v), fury Gpsdo’s.. etc.  anyone use
>> something neat and not real expensive for distributing 5v and 12v.  I am
>> hoping for a long COTS pcb with fusing and maybe holes for plugs.
>> 
>> Any insights?
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
>> Bill Dailey
>> 
>> Negativity always wins the short game. But positivity wins the long game.
>> - Gary Vaynerchuk
>> 
>> Don’t be easy to understand,
>> Be impossible to misunderstand
>> - Steve Sims
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to 
> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> and follow the instructions there.
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[MLewis]

It works, but note that folding the conductor over to fill the crimp 
fails NASA's workmanship standards. I'd expect that trick with the 
thicker wire would too.


On 04/10/2019 5:07 PM, John Ackermann N8UR wrote:

The idea of using a short piece of thicker wire is a good one.  Thanks
for that!

On 10/4/19 3:17 PM, MLewis wrote:

With audio signals, a soldered crimp is one of the worst possible
connections. I wouldn't think it would be different for anything else,
but may go undetected until failure. If you've used the correct size of
crimp and used a proper crimping tool, then you've got the proper
pressure for a solid reliable connection. If you then solder, the heat
expands the crimp lessening the crimp pressure, and when it cools it's
no longer at the correct crimp pressure (often the wire will pull right
out), and with iffy wicking of solder. The worst of both methods
combined in one.

Where the wire is too thin for the crimp I have available, I've cut a
piece of a correct thickness wire/cable, inserted that into the crimp
along with the signal wire/cable, so it's crimped between them. I don't
know if that is the best way of handling that, but it's worked for me.

On 04/10/2019 11:41 AM, John Ackermann. N8UR wrote:

West Mountain is a good source for all things PowerPole, but there are
a bunch of other vendors as well.  And do youself a favor -- spend $30
on the three size 15/30/45 amp crimping tool.  It saves much
aggravation.  But if you're using thin wire, soldering after crimping
is a good precaution.



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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Bill Dailey]

There are locks you can get.  I saw them on Mountain West today.

Bill Dailey

Negativity always wins the short game. But positivity wins the long game. - 
Gary Vaynerchuk

Don’t be easy to understand, 
Be impossible to misunderstand 
- Steve Sims

> On Oct 4, 2019, at 6:04 PM, Taka Kamiya via time-nuts 
>  wrote:
> 
> I used to use power pole, too but they don't lock firmly enough for my 
> liking.  So I don't use them anymore.  It would be perfect if there is an 
> option to add positive locking mechanism of some kind.
> 
> --- 
> (Mr.) Taka Kamiya
> KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
> 
> 
>On Friday, October 4, 2019, 4:06:50 PM EDT, Didier Juges 
>  wrote:  
> 
> That's what I do too. I do use Power Pole for my ham stuff that draws high
> current but for all the <2A 12V stuff the 5.1mm barrel connector with
> positive center is hard to beat because I have so many power sources and
> equipment already wired for it. I am not ready to rewire all the off the
> shelf equipment that came with one of those.
> 
> Power Pole are convenient for batteries though because you can use the
> connector to charge the battery or use it as a source.
> 
> Didier KO4BB
> 
>> On Fri, Oct 4, 2019, 2:01 PM Taka Kamiya via time-nuts <
>> time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Mine is very simple
>> USB connector for 5VBarrel connector 5.5/2.1mm for 12VTerminal strip for
>> 24V
>> None of them are high power devices.
>> 
>> ---
>> (Mr.) Taka Kamiya
>> KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
>> 
>> 
>> On Friday, October 4, 2019, 2:03:55 AM EDT, Bill Dailey <
>> docdai...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>   Setting up a new workbench and am wondering what wisdom people can
>> offer.  I am powering numerous synthesizers (5v), small receivers (5v),
>> Upconverters (5v), larger receivers (12v), fury Gpsdo’s.. etc.  anyone use
>> something neat and not real expensive for distributing 5v and 12v.  I am
>> hoping for a long COTS pcb with fusing and maybe holes for plugs.
>> 
>> Any insights?
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
>> Bill Dailey
>> 
>> Negativity always wins the short game. But positivity wins the long game.
>> - Gary Vaynerchuk
>> 
>> Don’t be easy to understand,
>> Be impossible to misunderstand
>> - Steve Sims
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
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> To unsubscribe, go to 
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> and follow the instructions there.
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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Taka Kamiya via time-nuts]

I used to use power pole, too but they don't lock firmly enough for my liking.  
So I don't use them anymore.  It would be perfect if there is an option to add 
positive locking mechanism of some kind.

--- 
(Mr.) Taka Kamiya
KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
 

On Friday, October 4, 2019, 4:06:50 PM EDT, Didier Juges 
 wrote:  
 
 That's what I do too. I do use Power Pole for my ham stuff that draws high
current but for all the <2A 12V stuff the 5.1mm barrel connector with
positive center is hard to beat because I have so many power sources and
equipment already wired for it. I am not ready to rewire all the off the
shelf equipment that came with one of those.

Power Pole are convenient for batteries though because you can use the
connector to charge the battery or use it as a source.

Didier KO4BB

On Fri, Oct 4, 2019, 2:01 PM Taka Kamiya via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:

> Mine is very simple
> USB connector for 5VBarrel connector 5.5/2.1mm for 12VTerminal strip for
> 24V
> None of them are high power devices.
>
> ---
> (Mr.) Taka Kamiya
> KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
>
>
>    On Friday, October 4, 2019, 2:03:55 AM EDT, Bill Dailey <
> docdai...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Setting up a new workbench and am wondering what wisdom people can
> offer.  I am powering numerous synthesizers (5v), small receivers (5v),
> Upconverters (5v), larger receivers (12v), fury Gpsdo’s.. etc.  anyone use
> something neat and not real expensive for distributing 5v and 12v.  I am
> hoping for a long COTS pcb with fusing and maybe holes for plugs.
>
> Any insights?
>
> Bill
>
> Bill Dailey
>
> Negativity always wins the short game. But positivity wins the long game.
> - Gary Vaynerchuk
>
> Don’t be easy to understand,
> Be impossible to misunderstand
> - Steve Sims
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> and follow the instructions there.
>
> ___
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> To unsubscribe, go to
> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> and follow the instructions there.
>
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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Paul Bicknell]

Hi where the wire is too thin for the crimp

I actually strip the wire to long and fold it half 

One reason to crimp is so there is not a hard line for a fracture 
IE a point for the cable to brake  
By soldering the joint you actually introduce a potential fracture point  

It's all my time playing with aircraft and destructive testing  
Sorry it was suppose to be non destructive testing but things brake at times


Paul 

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@lists.febo.com] On Behalf Of John
Ackermann N8UR
Sent: 04 October 2019 22:08
To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

The idea of using a short piece of thicker wire is a good one.  Thanks
for that!

On 10/4/19 3:17 PM, MLewis wrote:
> With audio signals, a soldered crimp is one of the worst possible
> connections. I wouldn't think it would be different for anything else,
> but may go undetected until failure. If you've used the correct size of
> crimp and used a proper crimping tool, then you've got the proper
> pressure for a solid reliable connection. If you then solder, the heat
> expands the crimp lessening the crimp pressure, and when it cools it's
> no longer at the correct crimp pressure (often the wire will pull right
> out), and with iffy wicking of solder. The worst of both methods
> combined in one.
> 
> Where the wire is too thin for the crimp I have available, I've cut a
> piece of a correct thickness wire/cable, inserted that into the crimp
> along with the signal wire/cable, so it's crimped between them. I don't
> know if that is the best way of handling that, but it's worked for me.
> 
> On 04/10/2019 11:41 AM, John Ackermann. N8UR wrote:
>> West Mountain is a good source for all things PowerPole, but there are
>> a bunch of other vendors as well.  And do youself a favor -- spend $30
>> on the three size 15/30/45 amp crimping tool.  It saves much
>> aggravation.  But if you're using thin wire, soldering after crimping
>> is a good precaution.
>>
> 
> 
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> and follow the instructions there.


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-
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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[djl]

Long ago and far away, I did read that a large(60% or so) of failures in 
ww2 style equipment was due to wire breakage right at the terminal, that 
is solder wicking into stranded wire. The very careful wire wrap through 
holes or around terminals did nothing.  Power pole connectors do not 
have crimped insulation. Spade lug and rings very often do. Strain 
relief is a must, especially in presence of higher frequecy vibration. 
These facts are around, just cannot recall where.

Don

On 2019-10-04 14:41, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:


In message <5d979ac0.80...@rogers.com>, MLewis writes:


With audio signals, a soldered crimp is one of the worst possible
connections.


Dabbling in audio-homoepathy are we ?

No, don't bother responding unless you have a reference to 
peer-reviewed

scientific documentation for you claim.


--
Dr. Don Latham  AJ7LL
PO Box 404, Frenchtown, MT, 59834
VOX: 406-626-4304


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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Bill Dailey]

Thanks to all.  I know what to do now.  Appreciated. I am finally getting to 
the point where I can start playing again.  Work and life has been 
exceptionally busy.  I am excited to build a new bench right.

Anderson it is, powerwerx and or west mountain and stick to standards.  I will 
search for the industrial usb hub for 5V.  

Bill Dailey

Negativity always wins the short game. But positivity wins the long game. - 
Gary Vaynerchuk

Don’t be easy to understand, 
Be impossible to misunderstand 
- Steve Sims

> On Oct 4, 2019, at 5:01 PM, John Ackermann N8UR  wrote:
> 
> The idea of using a short piece of thicker wire is a good one.  Thanks
> for that!
> 
>> On 10/4/19 3:17 PM, MLewis wrote:
>> With audio signals, a soldered crimp is one of the worst possible
>> connections. I wouldn't think it would be different for anything else,
>> but may go undetected until failure. If you've used the correct size of
>> crimp and used a proper crimping tool, then you've got the proper
>> pressure for a solid reliable connection. If you then solder, the heat
>> expands the crimp lessening the crimp pressure, and when it cools it's
>> no longer at the correct crimp pressure (often the wire will pull right
>> out), and with iffy wicking of solder. The worst of both methods
>> combined in one.
>> 
>> Where the wire is too thin for the crimp I have available, I've cut a
>> piece of a correct thickness wire/cable, inserted that into the crimp
>> along with the signal wire/cable, so it's crimped between them. I don't
>> know if that is the best way of handling that, but it's worked for me.
>> 
>>> On 04/10/2019 11:41 AM, John Ackermann. N8UR wrote:
>>> West Mountain is a good source for all things PowerPole, but there are
>>> a bunch of other vendors as well.  And do youself a favor -- spend $30
>>> on the three size 15/30/45 amp crimping tool.  It saves much
>>> aggravation.  But if you're using thin wire, soldering after crimping
>>> is a good precaution.
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
>> and follow the instructions there.
> 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Martin Flynn]

Wire Ferrules are the best way to use thin wire in a powerpole

http://www.ferrulesdirect.com/electrical/NonInsFerr2620.htm


On 10/4/2019 5:07 PM, John Ackermann N8UR wrote:

The idea of using a short piece of thicker wire is a good one.  Thanks
for that!

On 10/4/19 3:17 PM, MLewis wrote:

With audio signals, a soldered crimp is one of the worst possible
connections. I wouldn't think it would be different for anything else,
but may go undetected until failure. If you've used the correct size of
crimp and used a proper crimping tool, then you've got the proper
pressure for a solid reliable connection. If you then solder, the heat
expands the crimp lessening the crimp pressure, and when it cools it's
no longer at the correct crimp pressure (often the wire will pull right
out), and with iffy wicking of solder. The worst of both methods
combined in one.

Where the wire is too thin for the crimp I have available, I've cut a
piece of a correct thickness wire/cable, inserted that into the crimp
along with the signal wire/cable, so it's crimped between them. I don't
know if that is the best way of handling that, but it's worked for me.

On 04/10/2019 11:41 AM, John Ackermann. N8UR wrote:

West Mountain is a good source for all things PowerPole, but there are
a bunch of other vendors as well.  And do youself a favor -- spend $30
on the three size 15/30/45 amp crimping tool.  It saves much
aggravation.  But if you're using thin wire, soldering after crimping
is a good precaution.



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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[John Ackermann N8UR]

The idea of using a short piece of thicker wire is a good one.  Thanks
for that!

On 10/4/19 3:17 PM, MLewis wrote:
> With audio signals, a soldered crimp is one of the worst possible
> connections. I wouldn't think it would be different for anything else,
> but may go undetected until failure. If you've used the correct size of
> crimp and used a proper crimping tool, then you've got the proper
> pressure for a solid reliable connection. If you then solder, the heat
> expands the crimp lessening the crimp pressure, and when it cools it's
> no longer at the correct crimp pressure (often the wire will pull right
> out), and with iffy wicking of solder. The worst of both methods
> combined in one.
> 
> Where the wire is too thin for the crimp I have available, I've cut a
> piece of a correct thickness wire/cable, inserted that into the crimp
> along with the signal wire/cable, so it's crimped between them. I don't
> know if that is the best way of handling that, but it's worked for me.
> 
> On 04/10/2019 11:41 AM, John Ackermann. N8UR wrote:
>> West Mountain is a good source for all things PowerPole, but there are
>> a bunch of other vendors as well.  And do youself a favor -- spend $30
>> on the three size 15/30/45 amp crimping tool.  It saves much
>> aggravation.  But if you're using thin wire, soldering after crimping
>> is a good precaution.
>>
> 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[W7SLS - Scott Scheirman]

Perhaps piling on, but be sure to adopt the “ARES standard” (same as rig 
runner) for your 12 v power poles ( so you don’t blow up your or their 
equipment, when a friend visits

S

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 4, 2019, at 1:06 PM, Didier Juges  wrote:
> 
> That's what I do too. I do use Power Pole for my ham stuff that draws high
> current but for all the <2A 12V stuff the 5.1mm barrel connector with
> positive center is hard to beat because I have so many power sources and
> equipment already wired for it. I am not ready to rewire all the off the
> shelf equipment that came with one of those.
> 
> Power Pole are convenient for batteries though because you can use the
> connector to charge the battery or use it as a source.
> 
> Didier KO4BB
> 
>> On Fri, Oct 4, 2019, 2:01 PM Taka Kamiya via time-nuts <
>> time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Mine is very simple
>> USB connector for 5VBarrel connector 5.5/2.1mm for 12VTerminal strip for
>> 24V
>> None of them are high power devices.
>> 
>> ---
>> (Mr.) Taka Kamiya
>> KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
>> 
>> 
>>On Friday, October 4, 2019, 2:03:55 AM EDT, Bill Dailey <
>> docdai...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Setting up a new workbench and am wondering what wisdom people can
>> offer.  I am powering numerous synthesizers (5v), small receivers (5v),
>> Upconverters (5v), larger receivers (12v), fury Gpsdo’s.. etc.  anyone use
>> something neat and not real expensive for distributing 5v and 12v.  I am
>> hoping for a long COTS pcb with fusing and maybe holes for plugs.
>> 
>> Any insights?
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
>> Bill Dailey
>> 
>> Negativity always wins the short game. But positivity wins the long game.
>> - Gary Vaynerchuk
>> 
>> Don’t be easy to understand,
>> Be impossible to misunderstand
>> - Steve Sims
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
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>> 
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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[jimlux]

On 10/4/19 12:17 PM, MLewis wrote:
With audio signals, a soldered crimp is one of the worst possible 
connections. I wouldn't think it would be different for anything else, 
but may go undetected until failure. If you've used the correct size of 
crimp and used a proper crimping tool, then you've got the proper 
pressure for a solid reliable connection. If you then solder, the heat 
expands the crimp lessening the crimp pressure, and when it cools it's 
no longer at the correct crimp pressure (often the wire will pull right 
out), and with iffy wicking of solder. The worst of both methods 
combined in one.


Where the wire is too thin for the crimp I have available, I've cut a 
piece of a correct thickness wire/cable, inserted that into the crimp 
along with the signal wire/cable, so it's crimped between them. I don't 
know if that is the best way of handling that, but it's worked for me.




I agree on not soldering - soldering makes for a stress concentration at 
the end of the strands.  With a crimped connector, wiggling the wire 
bends all the strands differently. And the solder does change the 
"springyness" of the crimping.


With the right crimp tool, and the willingness to throw away marginal 
crimps.


If you were to pot the wire into the connector, that would probably 
solve the brittle solder problem. But that's yet another assembly step 
to squirt the epoxy in.



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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[jimlux]

On 10/4/19 8:41 AM, John Ackermann.  N8UR wrote:
West Mountain is a good source for all things PowerPole, but there are a bunch of other vendors as well.  And do youself a favor -- spend $30 on the three size 15/30/45 amp crimping tool. 



+++10 -- the right crimping tool is a godsend.  There's also a little 
tool that helps remove the contact.


https://powerwerx.com/ is another source that's done well for me.. Lots 
of inexpensive distribution stuff without fancyness (basically big 
clusters of connectors).


They also have watt/current/voltage meters that plug-in inline that 
handle a wide range of voltages (5-60V). however "Only current from 
source to load can be measured. Drawing current in reverse will cause 
damage to the meter."


They also sell the west mountain gear.






 It saves much aggravation.  But if you're using thin wire, soldering 
after crimping is a good precaution.


On Oct 4, 2019, 10:03 AM, at 10:03 AM, Bill Dailey  wrote:

Yes.  I am using 12v agm.  Good wmr for the connectors also?

Bill Dailey

Negativity always wins the short game. But positivity wins the long
game. - Gary Vaynerchuk

Don’t be easy to understand,
Be impossible to misunderstand
- Steve Sims


On Oct 4, 2019, at 7:17 AM, John Ackermann. N8UR 

wrote:


I use lots and lots of Anderson PowerPoles and (mostly) West

Mountain Radio distribution units.  I have different color codes for
different voltages -- red/black for 12v, orange/black for 24v,
green/black for 5v, etc.  Primary 12 and 24 volt sources are big AGM
batteries across float chargers.



On Oct 4, 2019, 2:03 AM, at 2:03 AM, Bill Dailey

 wrote:

Setting up a new workbench and am wondering what wisdom people can
offer.  I am powering numerous synthesizers (5v), small receivers

(5v),

Upconverters (5v), larger receivers (12v), fury Gpsdo’s.. etc.

anyone

use something neat and not real expensive for distributing 5v and

12v.

I am hoping for a long COTS pcb with fusing and maybe holes for

plugs.



Any insights?

Bill

Bill Dailey

Negativity always wins the short game. But positivity wins the long
game. - Gary Vaynerchuk

Don’t be easy to understand,
Be impossible to misunderstand
- Steve Sims
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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Poul-Henning Kamp]

In message <5d979ac0.80...@rogers.com>, MLewis writes:

>With audio signals, a soldered crimp is one of the worst possible 
>connections.

Dabbling in audio-homoepathy are we ?

No, don't bother responding unless you have a reference to peer-reviewed
scientific documentation for you claim.

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[MLewis]

With audio signals, a soldered crimp is one of the worst possible 
connections. I wouldn't think it would be different for anything else, 
but may go undetected until failure. If you've used the correct size of 
crimp and used a proper crimping tool, then you've got the proper 
pressure for a solid reliable connection. If you then solder, the heat 
expands the crimp lessening the crimp pressure, and when it cools it's 
no longer at the correct crimp pressure (often the wire will pull right 
out), and with iffy wicking of solder. The worst of both methods 
combined in one.


Where the wire is too thin for the crimp I have available, I've cut a 
piece of a correct thickness wire/cable, inserted that into the crimp 
along with the signal wire/cable, so it's crimped between them. I don't 
know if that is the best way of handling that, but it's worked for me.


On 04/10/2019 11:41 AM, John Ackermann. N8UR wrote:

West Mountain is a good source for all things PowerPole, but there are a bunch 
of other vendors as well.  And do youself a favor -- spend $30 on the three 
size 15/30/45 amp crimping tool.  It saves much aggravation.  But if you're 
using thin wire, soldering after crimping is a good precaution.




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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Peter Laws]

On Fri, Oct 4, 2019 at 2:01 PM John Ackermann. N8UR  wrote:
>
> West Mountain is a good source for all things PowerPole, but there are a 
> bunch of other vendors as well.  And do youself a favor -- spend $30 on the 
> three size 15/30/45 amp crimping tool.  It saves much aggravation.  But if 
> you're using thin wire, soldering after crimping is a good precaution.

Our club has this tool and I approve this message!

Interestingly, there is a subset of the model railroading community
that builds modular layouts.  The N-scale group (N-Trak) has adopted
Power-Poles as their standard after decades of using Cinch connectors.
PowerPoles have their limits but in these applications (time nuttery,
amateur radio, model railroads) they are pretty darn convenient.  And
a crimper makes it more so.

I also have the little pick tool that Anderson sells that makes it
easy to "convince" reluctant contacts to seat properly in the plastic
shell and make it easier to remove the contact if you need to.  Saves
wear on my "jewelers screwdrivers".

-- 
Peter Laws | N5UWY | plaws plaws net | Travel by Train!

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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Poul-Henning Kamp]

In message <119811778.3750152.1570204871...@mail.yahoo.com>, Taka Kamiya via ti
me-nuts writes:

>Mine is very simple
>USB connector for 5VBarrel connector 5.5/2.1mm for 12VTerminal strip for 24V
>None of them are high power devices.

Yes, I forgot to mention that too:

I have very few 5V devices, but I power them all using USB cables
and an "Industrial[1] USB Hub" which takes 10-30V input power.

As long as you don't plug the hub's upstream ("B") port into a
computer the noise-level seems fine.

Poul-Henning

[1]  = Metal case with mounting holes instead of oddly shaped plastic


-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[W7SLS]

>> But if you're using thin wire, soldering after crimping is a good precaution

Good advice.  Another way is to put in an extra wire (or fold over the thin 
wire) so as to “fill up” the power pole before you crimp it.

Scott
W7SLS


> On Oct 4, 2019, at 8:41 AM, John Ackermann. N8UR  wrote:
> 
> West Mountain is a good source for all things PowerPole, but there are a 
> bunch of other vendors as well.  And do youself a favor -- spend $30 on the 
> three size 15/30/45 amp crimping tool.  It saves much aggravation.  But if 
> you're using thin wire, soldering after crimping is a good precaution.
> 
> On Oct 4, 2019, 10:03 AM, at 10:03 AM, Bill Dailey  
> wrote:
>> Yes.  I am using 12v agm.  Good wmr for the connectors also?
>> 
>> Bill Dailey
>> 
>> Negativity always wins the short game. But positivity wins the long
>> game. - Gary Vaynerchuk
>> 
>> Don’t be easy to understand, 
>> Be impossible to misunderstand 
>> - Steve Sims
>> 
>>> On Oct 4, 2019, at 7:17 AM, John Ackermann. N8UR 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I use lots and lots of Anderson PowerPoles and (mostly) West
>> Mountain Radio distribution units.  I have different color codes for
>> different voltages -- red/black for 12v, orange/black for 24v,
>> green/black for 5v, etc.  Primary 12 and 24 volt sources are big AGM
>> batteries across float chargers.
>>> 
 On Oct 4, 2019, 2:03 AM, at 2:03 AM, Bill Dailey
>>  wrote:
 Setting up a new workbench and am wondering what wisdom people can
 offer.  I am powering numerous synthesizers (5v), small receivers
>> (5v),
 Upconverters (5v), larger receivers (12v), fury Gpsdo’s.. etc.  
>> anyone
 use something neat and not real expensive for distributing 5v and
>> 12v. 
 I am hoping for a long COTS pcb with fusing and maybe holes for
>> plugs. 
 
 
 Any insights?
 
 Bill
 
 Bill Dailey
 
 Negativity always wins the short game. But positivity wins the long
 game. - Gary Vaynerchuk
 
 Don’t be easy to understand, 
 Be impossible to misunderstand 
 - Steve Sims
 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
 To unsubscribe, go to
 http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
 and follow the instructions there.
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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Didier Juges]

That's what I do too. I do use Power Pole for my ham stuff that draws high
current but for all the <2A 12V stuff the 5.1mm barrel connector with
positive center is hard to beat because I have so many power sources and
equipment already wired for it. I am not ready to rewire all the off the
shelf equipment that came with one of those.

Power Pole are convenient for batteries though because you can use the
connector to charge the battery or use it as a source.

Didier KO4BB

On Fri, Oct 4, 2019, 2:01 PM Taka Kamiya via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:

> Mine is very simple
> USB connector for 5VBarrel connector 5.5/2.1mm for 12VTerminal strip for
> 24V
> None of them are high power devices.
>
> ---
> (Mr.) Taka Kamiya
> KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
>
>
> On Friday, October 4, 2019, 2:03:55 AM EDT, Bill Dailey <
> docdai...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Setting up a new workbench and am wondering what wisdom people can
> offer.  I am powering numerous synthesizers (5v), small receivers (5v),
> Upconverters (5v), larger receivers (12v), fury Gpsdo’s.. etc.  anyone use
> something neat and not real expensive for distributing 5v and 12v.  I am
> hoping for a long COTS pcb with fusing and maybe holes for plugs.
>
> Any insights?
>
> Bill
>
> Bill Dailey
>
> Negativity always wins the short game. But positivity wins the long game.
> - Gary Vaynerchuk
>
> Don’t be easy to understand,
> Be impossible to misunderstand
> - Steve Sims
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
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>
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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[John Ackermann. N8UR]

West Mountain is a good source for all things PowerPole, but there are a bunch 
of other vendors as well.  And do youself a favor -- spend $30 on the three 
size 15/30/45 amp crimping tool.  It saves much aggravation.  But if you're 
using thin wire, soldering after crimping is a good precaution.

On Oct 4, 2019, 10:03 AM, at 10:03 AM, Bill Dailey  wrote:
>Yes.  I am using 12v agm.  Good wmr for the connectors also?
>
>Bill Dailey
>
>Negativity always wins the short game. But positivity wins the long
>game. - Gary Vaynerchuk
>
>Don’t be easy to understand, 
>Be impossible to misunderstand 
>- Steve Sims
>
>> On Oct 4, 2019, at 7:17 AM, John Ackermann. N8UR 
>wrote:
>> 
>> I use lots and lots of Anderson PowerPoles and (mostly) West
>Mountain Radio distribution units.  I have different color codes for
>different voltages -- red/black for 12v, orange/black for 24v,
>green/black for 5v, etc.  Primary 12 and 24 volt sources are big AGM
>batteries across float chargers.
>> 
>>> On Oct 4, 2019, 2:03 AM, at 2:03 AM, Bill Dailey
> wrote:
>>> Setting up a new workbench and am wondering what wisdom people can
>>> offer.  I am powering numerous synthesizers (5v), small receivers
>(5v),
>>> Upconverters (5v), larger receivers (12v), fury Gpsdo’s.. etc.  
>anyone
>>> use something neat and not real expensive for distributing 5v and
>12v. 
>>> I am hoping for a long COTS pcb with fusing and maybe holes for
>plugs. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Any insights?
>>> 
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>> Bill Dailey
>>> 
>>> Negativity always wins the short game. But positivity wins the long
>>> game. - Gary Vaynerchuk
>>> 
>>> Don’t be easy to understand, 
>>> Be impossible to misunderstand 
>>> - Steve Sims
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>> ___
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>http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Taka Kamiya via time-nuts]

Mine is very simple
USB connector for 5VBarrel connector 5.5/2.1mm for 12VTerminal strip for 24V
None of them are high power devices.

--- 
(Mr.) Taka Kamiya
KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
 

On Friday, October 4, 2019, 2:03:55 AM EDT, Bill Dailey 
 wrote:  
 
 Setting up a new workbench and am wondering what wisdom people can offer.  I 
am powering numerous synthesizers (5v), small receivers (5v), Upconverters 
(5v), larger receivers (12v), fury Gpsdo’s.. etc.  anyone use something neat 
and not real expensive for distributing 5v and 12v.  I am hoping for a long 
COTS pcb with fusing and maybe holes for plugs.  

Any insights?

Bill

Bill Dailey

Negativity always wins the short game. But positivity wins the long game. - 
Gary Vaynerchuk

Don’t be easy to understand, 
Be impossible to misunderstand 
- Steve Sims
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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Bill Dailey]

Yes.  I am using 12v agm.  Good wmr for the connectors also?

Bill Dailey

Negativity always wins the short game. But positivity wins the long game. - 
Gary Vaynerchuk

Don’t be easy to understand, 
Be impossible to misunderstand 
- Steve Sims

> On Oct 4, 2019, at 7:17 AM, John Ackermann. N8UR  wrote:
> 
> I use lots and lots of Anderson PowerPoles and (mostly) West Mountain Radio 
> distribution units.  I have different color codes for different voltages -- 
> red/black for 12v, orange/black for 24v, green/black for 5v, etc.  Primary 12 
> and 24 volt sources are big AGM batteries across float chargers.
> 
>> On Oct 4, 2019, 2:03 AM, at 2:03 AM, Bill Dailey  wrote:
>> Setting up a new workbench and am wondering what wisdom people can
>> offer.  I am powering numerous synthesizers (5v), small receivers (5v),
>> Upconverters (5v), larger receivers (12v), fury Gpsdo’s.. etc.   anyone
>> use something neat and not real expensive for distributing 5v and 12v. 
>> I am hoping for a long COTS pcb with fusing and maybe holes for plugs. 
>> 
>> 
>> Any insights?
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
>> Bill Dailey
>> 
>> Negativity always wins the short game. But positivity wins the long
>> game. - Gary Vaynerchuk
>> 
>> Don’t be easy to understand, 
>> Be impossible to misunderstand 
>> - Steve Sims
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
>> and follow the instructions there.
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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[W7SLS]

Anderson Power Poles  / West Mountain Radio <— agree.  fantastic

avail 15A, 30 A, 45A, … 175A, and more

Blue Sea Systems marine products are great also

example: ammeters with shunt in positive rail

My .02

Scott W7SLS

> On Oct 4, 2019, at 4:56 AM, Tim Shoppa  wrote:
> 
> I want to recommend Anderson Powerpoles for DC distribution too. A trillion 
> times better than all the incompatible molexes. And those West Mountain Radio 
> multi fused splitters are exactly what you want for splitters.
> 
> In addition to the WMR splitters, bare PCBs for building up your own are 
> available too. There are also some nice non-Anderson DC distribution 
> fuseblocks in the marine and automotive shops.
> 
> Black and red is the ham convention for 12V. If you want to run +5 or -48 
> (ex-telco equipment) around, you could adopt a different color convention 
> and/or Polarizing pins conventions.
> 
> Tim N3QE
> 
>> On Oct 4, 2019, at 2:05 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> In message <36676b65-57b2-4b2d-94d6-326385ce5...@gmail.com>, Bill Dailey 
>> writes
>> :
>> 
>> I use http://www.westmountainradio.com/rigrunner.php
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
>> p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
>> FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
>> Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
>> 
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
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>> and follow the instructions there.
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[jimlux]

On 10/3/19 6:58 PM, Bill Dailey wrote:

Setting up a new workbench and am wondering what wisdom people can offer.  I am 
powering numerous synthesizers (5v), small receivers (5v), Upconverters (5v), 
larger receivers (12v), fury Gpsdo’s.. etc.   anyone use something neat and not 
real expensive for distributing 5v and 12v.  I am hoping for a long COTS pcb 
with fusing and maybe holes for plugs.




There's a variety of things out there with PowerPole connectors of 
varying sophistication.  You might check West Mountain Radio or 
PowerWerx. Or the amateur radio community in general - someone has 
probably published a dual row PCB design if you want to fab it yourself.


there's also power distribution strips that have rows of banana 
jacks/binding posts with the standard 3/4" spacing to mate with dual 
banana plugs


At work, pretty much everything prototype-like uses stackable double 
banana plugs, usually with a reverse biased diode across the terminals 
(so if you plug it in backwards, the power supply current limits or 
folds back). We use a lot of coax to dual banana adapters (just because 
nobody makes twisted pair banana jack to plug as an off the shelf item).


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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Paul Bicknell]

Hi I am standardising on 4 pin XLR connectors for 12 Volts as used in the TV
industry Perhaps you could use the 6 pin for 5 volts 
I do not recommend the 2 pin as this is for 240 V ac 
Or the 3 pin as you could take out a microphone 

I am going to be Using military connectors for 24 V DC and 400 Hz

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@lists.febo.com] On Behalf Of John
Ackermann. N8UR
Sent: 04 October 2019 12:40
To: David Van Horn via time-nuts
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

I use lots and lots of Anderson PowerPoles and (mostly) West Mountain Radio
distribution units.  I have different color codes for different voltages --
red/black for 12v, orange/black for 24v, green/black for 5v, etc.  Primary
12 and 24 volt sources are big AGM batteries across float chargers.

On Oct 4, 2019, 2:03 AM, at 2:03 AM, Bill Dailey 
wrote:
>Setting up a new workbench and am wondering what wisdom people can
>offer.  I am powering numerous synthesizers (5v), small receivers (5v),
>Upconverters (5v), larger receivers (12v), fury Gpsdo’s.. etc.   anyone
>use something neat and not real expensive for distributing 5v and 12v. 
>I am hoping for a long COTS pcb with fusing and maybe holes for plugs. 
>
>
>Any insights?
>
>Bill
>
>Bill Dailey
>
>Negativity always wins the short game. But positivity wins the long
>game. - Gary Vaynerchuk
>
>Don’t be easy to understand, 
>Be impossible to misunderstand 
>- Steve Sims
>___
>time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
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-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.


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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Tim Shoppa]

I want to recommend Anderson Powerpoles for DC distribution too. A trillion 
times better than all the incompatible molexes. And those West Mountain Radio 
multi fused splitters are exactly what you want for splitters.

In addition to the WMR splitters, bare PCBs for building up your own are 
available too. There are also some nice non-Anderson DC distribution fuseblocks 
in the marine and automotive shops.

Black and red is the ham convention for 12V. If you want to run +5 or -48 
(ex-telco equipment) around, you could adopt a different color convention 
and/or Polarizing pins conventions.

Tim N3QE

> On Oct 4, 2019, at 2:05 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp  wrote:
> 
> 
> In message <36676b65-57b2-4b2d-94d6-326385ce5...@gmail.com>, Bill Dailey 
> writes
> :
> 
> I use http://www.westmountainradio.com/rigrunner.php
> 
> 
> -- 
> Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
> p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
> FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
> Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
> 
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to 
> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> and follow the instructions there.

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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[John Ackermann. N8UR]

I use lots and lots of Anderson PowerPoles and (mostly) West Mountain Radio 
distribution units.  I have different color codes for different voltages -- 
red/black for 12v, orange/black for 24v, green/black for 5v, etc.  Primary 12 
and 24 volt sources are big AGM batteries across float chargers.

On Oct 4, 2019, 2:03 AM, at 2:03 AM, Bill Dailey  wrote:
>Setting up a new workbench and am wondering what wisdom people can
>offer.  I am powering numerous synthesizers (5v), small receivers (5v),
>Upconverters (5v), larger receivers (12v), fury Gpsdo’s.. etc.   anyone
>use something neat and not real expensive for distributing 5v and 12v. 
>I am hoping for a long COTS pcb with fusing and maybe holes for plugs. 
>
>
>Any insights?
>
>Bill
>
>Bill Dailey
>
>Negativity always wins the short game. But positivity wins the long
>game. - Gary Vaynerchuk
>
>Don’t be easy to understand, 
>Be impossible to misunderstand 
>- Steve Sims
>___
>time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
>To unsubscribe, go to
>http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
>and follow the instructions there.
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Re: [time-nuts] DC distribution

[Poul-Henning Kamp]

In message <36676b65-57b2-4b2d-94d6-326385ce5...@gmail.com>, Bill Dailey writes
:

I use http://www.westmountainradio.com/rigrunner.php


-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

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