[Toolserver-l] Sick
Hello, I have become sick as my baby has with high fever and it seems the rest of the family will join. Yesterday I was already in hospital with the baby but without me thinking about their treatments it wont work. She has a resistant bactery that the doctors wanted to treat with a antibiotic that will not work there - fortunatelly I forced the ambulant doctor to measure the bacerty some days ago. I personally feel fever too and we will now see if there is a second sort of bacerty or if its just one resistant. This means I am offline now or only seldomly online. If toolserver is offline please contact me via phone (short message will work too) - you can find the number in the wiki. Please keep in mind that willow and nightshade are quite overloaded and try to eliminate as much load as you can on your tools. Afais we have a lot of load from Iran - guys please keep an eye on that. What Tim wrote about another admin is exactly right. Cheers Marlen/nosy ___ Toolserver-l mailing list (Toolserver-l@lists.wikimedia.org) https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/toolserver-l Posting guidelines for this list: https://wiki.toolserver.org/view/Mailing_list_etiquette
Re: [Toolserver-l] Sick
Hello Nosy, you and the baby: Get better soon! The toolserver has a lower priority. Sincerely, DaB. -- Userpage: [[:w:de:User:DaB.]] — PGP: 2B255885 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Toolserver-l mailing list (Toolserver-l@lists.wikimedia.org) https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/toolserver-l Posting guidelines for this list: https://wiki.toolserver.org/view/Mailing_list_etiquette
Re: [Toolserver-l] Adding more roots
Hello, At Tuesday 05 February 2013 15:27:24 DaB. wrote: wasn't thinking about a paid job, but harvesting the vol- unteer potential of the toolserver usership. AFAIK the WMF accepts only paid persons anymore. But if the users would like to help, they can it even now: Update the pages in the wiki, write a patch for cron, add rules to puppet and help to clean it up, help newbies in the IRC and JIRA, add nagios-rules, prepare the switch from jira away (or find its problem), help Merl with the SGE, help Danny with the dumps, help Kai with OSM – and there are many more things. I have no problems with more roots (heh, if there are enough, I can leave ;-)). But beside the formal problems (WMF and WMDE), there is also the problem that to incorporate a new roots needs a lot of my time – and if the new root becomes inactive short time later my time was wasted. River appointed a few users to roots over the time, but I'm the only one left and most of my colleges were never very active. So in a nutshell: If you like to help the TS: Do it. If you need a special right and I know you, ask me and I will see what I can do. If you need to become a root and are SURE to stay, fight with WMDE and WMF (and me) and if you are successful I will show you how deep the rabbit hole goes ;-). Sincerely, DaB. -- Userpage: [[:w:de:User:DaB.]] — PGP: 2B255885 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Toolserver-l mailing list (Toolserver-l@lists.wikimedia.org) https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/toolserver-l Posting guidelines for this list: https://wiki.toolserver.org/view/Mailing_list_etiquette
Re: [Toolserver-l] Sick
Marlen Caemmerer marlen.caemme...@wikimedia.de wrote: I have become sick as my baby has with high fever and it seems the rest of the family will join. Yesterday I was already in hospital with the baby but without me thinking about their treatments it wont work. She has a resistant bactery that the doctors wanted to treat with a antibiotic that will not work there - fortunatelly I forced the ambulant doctor to measure the bacerty some days ago. I personally feel fever too and we will now see if there is a second sort of bacerty or if its just one resistant. [...] Gute Besserung den schon Erkrankten und (prophylaktisch) den noch Gesunden :-). Tim ___ Toolserver-l mailing list (Toolserver-l@lists.wikimedia.org) https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/toolserver-l Posting guidelines for this list: https://wiki.toolserver.org/view/Mailing_list_etiquette
Re: [Toolserver-l] Sick
On Feb 5, 2013 3:42 AM, Marlen Caemmerer marlen.caemme...@wikimedia.de wrote: This means I am offline now or only seldomly online. If toolserver is offline please contact me via phone (short message will work too) - you can find the number in the wiki. Please keep in mind that willow and nightshade are quite overloaded and try to eliminate as much load as you can on your tools. ugh. stop worrying about TS and just rest and make sure everyone recovers! Afais we have a lot of load from Iran - guys please keep an eye on that. An abusive level? We could block some networks. What Tim wrote about another admin is exactly right. We'll continue that on the other thread. -Jeremy ___ Toolserver-l mailing list (Toolserver-l@lists.wikimedia.org) https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/toolserver-l Posting guidelines for this list: https://wiki.toolserver.org/view/Mailing_list_etiquette
Re: [Toolserver-l] Adding more roots
On 5 Feb 2013, at 14:49, DaB. w...@daniel.baur4.info wrote: AFAIK the WMF accepts only paid persons anymore. Are you sure? Are you saying the WMF only accepts paid roots to their own servers, or the Toolserver? ___ Toolserver-l mailing list (Toolserver-l@lists.wikimedia.org) https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/toolserver-l Posting guidelines for this list: https://wiki.toolserver.org/view/Mailing_list_etiquette
Re: [Toolserver-l] Adding more roots
Hi! DaB is right: WMF as the database owner accepts only paid roots. As to WMDE, we are ready to pay another root who is willing to work for WMDE and able to handle the requirements of the toolserver (that you know better than I do right now). You are welcome to propose people (or yourselves) or to help specify the requirements for a job advertisement. I see your point, DaB, the work you would put into instructing a new person. So another possibility could be to pay an external service provider to get a bunch of things done in one go to decrease the to do pile. Which is rather a short-term help and still requires some DaB. For this, I would need a list of tasks that you, DaB and Marlen, would like to delegate. Any opinions on this? Personally, I am new to this topic. At this point, it is hard to tell how long the transition will take, but if I may roughly estimate I think the toolserver will realistically NOT leave us in 2013. Also, I do not consider this as an attempt to increase WMDE's influence (at least, I am not going to brainwash people ;)) but as part of our commitment to keep up support of the toolserver. Cheers, Silke -- Silke Meyer Systemadministratorin und Projektassistenz Wikidata Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Obentrautstr. 72 | 10963 Berlin Tel. (030) 219 158 260 http://wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. ___ Toolserver-l mailing list (Toolserver-l@lists.wikimedia.org) https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/toolserver-l Posting guidelines for this list: https://wiki.toolserver.org/view/Mailing_list_etiquette
Re: [Toolserver-l] Adding more roots
Silke Meyer wrote: DaB is right: WMF as the database owner accepts only paid roots. As to WMDE, we are ready to pay another root who is willing to work for WMDE and able to handle the requirements of the toolserver (that you know better than I do right now). You are welcome to propose people (or yourselves) or to help specify the requirements for a job advertisement. I see your point, DaB, the work you would put into instructing a new person. So another possibility could be to pay an external service provider to get a bunch of things done in one go to decrease the to do pile. Which is rather a short-term help and still requires some DaB. For this, I would need a list of tasks that you, DaB and Marlen, would like to delegate. Any opinions on this? I imagine that most Toolserver users are less interested in the mechanics of the machine than they are in its results. As I see it, the primary purpose of the Toolserver is to provide replicated databases. The Toolserver has other (secondary) purposes such as providing shared hosting and storage, but that is so ubiquitous on the Web these days that it's not really relevant here. Focusing solely on the replicated databases for a moment, they've been corrupt for months. Months and months. What can be done about this? Would having additional roots help with this? MZMcBride ___ Toolserver-l mailing list (Toolserver-l@lists.wikimedia.org) https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/toolserver-l Posting guidelines for this list: https://wiki.toolserver.org/view/Mailing_list_etiquette
Re: [Toolserver-l] Adding more roots
Hello, At Tuesday 05 February 2013 20:24:03 DaB. wrote: Focusing solely on the replicated databases for a moment, they've been corrupt for months. Months and months. What can be done about this? Would having additional roots help with this? it took a long time for different reasons (political ones, hardware-shortages, technology changes, learning and (for a very small part) personal-shortage). But the situation improved during the last weeks: I have written a replacement for trainwreck, the WMF provides dumps now on short-time-base (few days), we have a contact person there, I have learned how to import the new dump-format, and Nosy and I have setup 1 of the new servers as db-server. The s2-import will be the first step to replace/re-import all clusters. I'm not sure about the sequence yet (but s5 will be the next), but if everything works all clusters SHOULD be new withing 6 weeks. And no, in this special field another root would not help in my eyes. Sincerely, DaB. -- Userpage: [[:w:de:User:DaB.]] — PGP: 2B255885 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Toolserver-l mailing list (Toolserver-l@lists.wikimedia.org) https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/toolserver-l Posting guidelines for this list: https://wiki.toolserver.org/view/Mailing_list_etiquette
Re: [Toolserver-l] Adding more roots
Please excuse my possibly lame question: Is there any possible mid-step between root and regular user? Something like power-user? For instance I wanted to cleanup the mess in user store as well as more automatize the dumps, however I can't do either of it because of lack of necessary rights. And of course comparing to database, cron, jira and other issues these activities are much lower importance so current roots won't have any time for that. And vicious circle is closing... Kind regards Danny B. -- Původní zpráva -- Od: Silke Meyer silke.me...@wikimedia.de Datum: 5. 2. 2013 Předmět: Re: [Toolserver-l] Adding more roots Hi! DaB is right: WMF as the database owner accepts only paid roots. As to WMDE, we are ready to pay another root who is willing to work for WMDE and able to handle the requirements of the toolserver (that you know better than I do right now). You are welcome to propose people (or yourselves) or to help specify the requirements for a job advertisement. I see your point, DaB, the work you would put into instructing a new person. So another possibility could be to pay an external service provider to get a bunch of things done in one go to decrease the to do pile. Which is rather a short-term help and still requires some DaB. For this, I would need a list of tasks that you, DaB and Marlen, would like to delegate. Any opinions on this? Personally, I am new to this topic. At this point, it is hard to tell how long the transition will take, but if I may roughly estimate I think the toolserver will realistically NOT leave us in 2013. Also, I do not consider this as an attempt to increase WMDE's influence (at least, I am not going to brainwash people ;)) but as part of our commitment to keep up support of the toolserver. Cheers, Silke -- Silke Meyer Systemadministratorin und Projektassistenz Wikidata Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Obentrautstr. 72 | 10963 Berlin Tel. (030) 219 158 260 http://wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. ___ Toolserver-l mailing list (Toolserver-l@lists.wikimedia.org) https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/toolserver-l Posting guidelines for this list: https://wiki.toolserver.org/view/Mailing_ list_etiquette___ Toolserver-l mailing list (Toolserver-l@lists.wikimedia.org) https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/toolserver-l Posting guidelines for this list: https://wiki.toolserver.org/view/Mailing_list_etiquette
Re: [Toolserver-l] Adding more roots
(anonymous) wrote: wasn't thinking about a paid job, but harvesting the vol- unteer potential of the toolserver usership. AFAIK the WMF accepts only paid persons anymore. But if the users would like to help, they can it even now: Update the pages in the wiki, write a patch for cron, add rules to puppet and help to clean it up, help newbies in the IRC and JIRA, add nagios-rules, prepare the switch from jira away (or find its problem), help Merl with the SGE, help Danny with the dumps, help Kai with OSM – and there are many more things. I have no problems with more roots (heh, if there are enough, I can leave ;-)). But beside the formal problems (WMF and WMDE), there is also the problem that to incorporate a new roots needs a lot of my time – and if the new root becomes inactive short time later my time was wasted. River appointed a few users to roots over the time, but I'm the only one left and most of my colleges were never very active. So in a nutshell: If you like to help the TS: Do it. If you need a special right and I know you, ask me and I will see what I can do. If you need to become a root and are SURE to stay, fight with WMDE and WMF (and me) and if you are successful I will show you how deep the rabbit hole goes ;-). I don't think that works. For example, if you want to fix the issues with JIRA (which are probably just some miscon- figuration), you need to have access to JIRA, and the mail logs, and the webserver, and the database, and whatnot. To do this, you effectively have to be root. I also don't think that a lot of familiarization for new roots is necessary. After all, the servers don't run on magic, but on software, and if you are able to find your way around JIRA, or OSM, or something else that needs attention, you are *very* probably skilled enough to read and under- stand configuration files and code. And finally I think that we shouldn't artificially heighten the entry barriers for people trying to help. Someone of- fering their knowledge and time to help with toolserver ad- ministration shouldn't have to promise a long term commit- ment, and they certainly shouldn't have to fight so that the recipient will accept their gifts. On Labs, which is scheduled to have replicated databases by the end of the month, there is no such barrier, and it may become increas- ingly difficult to convince volunteers to invest any time in the toolserver. Tim ___ Toolserver-l mailing list (Toolserver-l@lists.wikimedia.org) https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/toolserver-l Posting guidelines for this list: https://wiki.toolserver.org/view/Mailing_list_etiquette
Re: [Toolserver-l] Adding more roots
Hello, At Wednesday 06 February 2013 00:31:31 DaB. wrote: I also don't think that a lot of familiarization for new roots is necessary. After all, the servers don't run on magic, but on software, and if you are able to find your way around JIRA, or OSM, or something else that needs attention, you are very probably skilled enough to read and under- stand configuration files and code. Trust me, the toolserver is a *little* bit more complex than your machine at home. It is a full-grown cluster with more than a dozen hosts, a SAN- infrastructure, HA-services and everything is mixed with Solaris and Debian. I have more than 20 years of computer-experience, but I needed over a year to understood everything (and I still discover new things from time to time). On Labs, which is scheduled to have replicated databases by the end of the month, there is no such barrier, and it may become increas- ingly difficult to convince volunteers to invest any time in the toolserver. In this case you should just wait until the end of the month and than switch to labs, leaving the toolserver with all its problems behind. Just for clarification: I do not have convince people to come to the toolserver, they come by alone. And we will see how many users are eager to leave if Wikilabs is ever working. Sincerely, DaB. -- Userpage: [[:w:de:User:DaB.]] — PGP: 2B255885 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Toolserver-l mailing list (Toolserver-l@lists.wikimedia.org) https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/toolserver-l Posting guidelines for this list: https://wiki.toolserver.org/view/Mailing_list_etiquette
