Re: Topband: E51D and OHQP

[Jim GM]

Jim not a bad count.
Here I am at a count of 86. Been working at it for 38 years here in the city on 
 a tiny lot. 
Working 100 for DXCC on 160m better happen before I die. Age here is 70.

Its what it is.

Jim  Borowski K9TF
jim.gmfo...@gmail.com



_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: solarwind and 160 prop

[Jim GM]

I had seen when those factors a long with a full moon or new moon that
pulls the magnetic field more, What else helps use here in Wisconsin is the
Solar Wind when it comes out of the South.

All the other factors have to aline and if the sun just does not cooperate
we are just SOL.

-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector

Topband: OT Field Day San Diego

[Jim GM]

I will be in San Diego, CA on Field Day weekend. Any good Field Day site to
visit with some Top Band operators?  I will be staying a few miles form
Miramar visiting my daughter and new grandson.

-- 
Jim K9TF
All good topband ops know how to put up a beverage at night.
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Ferrite Source (Gary K9GS)

[Jim GM]

Gary you have specs and part number on those cores?? What are the specs for
160M?

-- 
Jim K9TF
All good topband ops know how to put up a beverage at night.
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: My Turn For a Brain Pick - Sanity Check

[Jim GM]

I think your too close to tell, or just coupling into every thing around
there.  Knowing you I am sure you have done every thing right. Try calling
CQ during day light hours and see what signal strengths the Reverse beacons
give you.  http://www.reversebeacon.net/main.php

Problem with doing this is the beacons may not re-spot you until your off
the air for say 15 minutes or shift frequency.  I do not know how they
really tick.


-- 
Jim K9TF
All good topband ops know how to put up a beverage at night.
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: My Turn For a Brain Pick - Sanity Check

[Jim GM]

So Jim, what are your final conclusions?

-- 
Jim K9TF
All good topband ops know how to put up a beverage at night.
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: My Turn For a Brain Pick - Sanity Check

[Jim GM]

Very fine Jim.

What kind of gain readings are you getting now?

Christman phasing is at 71 degrees?  I was thinking 90 degree phasing.
Whats the reasoning for this?

-- 
Jim K9TF
All good topband ops know how to put up a beverage at night.
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: My Turn For a Brain Pick - Sanity Check

[Jim GM]

I have seen some thing like those military surplus  mast sections.  I
believe the ones I saw were made by Shakespear. I think this is the same
company that made those good trout fishing rods and reels like the one I
have.

Sounds like your gearing up for Field Day.  If so where are you going to
set up?

-- 
Jim K9TF
All good topband ops know how to put up a beverage at night.
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: My Turn For a Brain Pick - Sanity Check

[Jim GM]

Jim Sounds like you have a great 40M antenna for filed Day.  QRP sounds
like fun. All you need now is brats and beer and something to keep you warm
at night.

Right.  There's some discussion of this in the ON4UN book, where I found
the Christman matching. As published there, it's 84 degrees of 50 ohm
line in each element, plus 71 degrees of 50 ohm line in the element
facing the desired forward direction,change directions by switching the
71 degree section.

So the forward element is actually feed at 155 degrees?

-- 
Jim K9TF
All good topband ops know how to put up a beverage at night.
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: My Turn For a Brain Pick - Sanity Check

[Jim GM]

Hi Jim
How well did you do on FieldDay?  How well did the 2 element vertical array
perform?

-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Lightning QRN season?

[Jim GM]

I saked my magic 8 Ball and says "Cannot Predict Now"

-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector

Topband: Good or Bad Prop New

[Jim GM]

Just in from Spaceweather.com



*GEOMAGNETIC STORM:* A solar wind stream hit Earth's magnetic field on
August 5th, sparking a G1-class geomagnetic storm and auroras over several
northern-tier US states. (Subscribers to our space weather alert
system were
notified that a storm was in progress.)*MAGNETIC FIELD REVERSAL ON THE SUN:
*It hasn't happened yet, but it's about to. Data from NASA-supported
observatories show that the sun's global magnetic field will flip before
the end of 2013. The reversal, which signals the arrival of Solar Maximum,
will have ripple effects felt throughout the solar system. Get thefull
story
 and a video  from Science@NASA.
 *Solar flare alerts:* text ,
voice
.

-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Two 2:1 transformers to choose from!!

[Jim GM]

So the general concessions is that 7:5 turns was better.  Do is 15:7 turns
or 21:10 turns better? Whats best for 160M ?

-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Nested Loops with one feedline results

[Jim GM]

Just try loading the 160 loop.  With the other loops inside floating with
not feed line to them and leave one end open.  Tuning each one may get real
touchy.  I did this with and 80M folded dipole and worked great with SWR
less than 1.5:1 on the 4 bands I was tuning.  Your Loop would react
differently is my guess but with the same results.  Lots of work though. It
will take at least two twelve packs to do the job over several weeks of
cutting and pruning.  Start with the lowest band first and work your way to
the higher frequencies, cause one will affect the other a bit.
-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Are stacked verticals feasible?

[Jim GM]

Here is a different way to look at it. It would be like with stacked
J-Poles or a beverage or just a long wire type of rhombic.

-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: 5/8 wavelength vertical is mo betta than shorter versions??

[Jim GM]

See http://www.chem.hawaii.edu/uham/zepp15.html


On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Jim GM  wrote:

> W8Ji is right with his analogy about the extended dipole.
>
> We used a 40M extended dipole for a few years on Field Day.  Our closest
> guess was we had about 1 to 2 db over a 1/2 dipole on 40m in USA. Maybe we
> had a lousy ground the the extended dipole over came that as W8JI had said.
>
> I believe the lobes on 40 and other bands for this antenna was to our
> advantage for East West propagation. One of our team members looked into it
> more.
>
> --
> Jim K9TF
>



-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: 5/8 wavelength vertical is mo betta than shorter versions??

[Jim GM]

All so see http://rudys.typepad.com/ant/files/antenna_colinear_zepp.pdf


On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 10:48 AM, Jim GM  wrote:

> See http://www.chem.hawaii.edu/uham/zepp15.html
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Jim GM  wrote:
>
>> W8Ji is right with his analogy about the extended dipole.
>>
>> We used a 40M extended dipole for a few years on Field Day.  Our closest
>> guess was we had about 1 to 2 db over a 1/2 dipole on 40m in USA. Maybe we
>> had a lousy ground the the extended dipole over came that as W8JI had said.
>>
>> I believe the lobes on 40 and other bands for this antenna was to our
>> advantage for East West propagation. One of our team members looked into it
>> more.
>>
>> --
>> Jim K9TF
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jim K9TF
>



-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: 5/8 wavelength vertical is mo betta than shorter versions??

[Jim GM]

W8Ji is right with his analogy about the extended dipole.

We used a 40M extended dipole for a few years on Field Day.  Our closest
guess was we had about 1 to 2 db over a 1/2 dipole on 40m in USA. Maybe we
had a lousy ground the the extended dipole over came that as W8JI had said.

I believe the lobes on 40 and other bands for this antenna was to our
advantage for East West propagation. One of our team members looked into it
more.

-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector

Topband: Hairpin Matching Coil Questions

[Jim GM]

I have an inverted L and using a hairpin coil to match in on 160M.

One coil is 6 inches OD the other is 2 inches OD.  I have been thinking
about making another hairpin with wire wrapped around a toroid donut,

I have noticed with the 6 inch coil I have a higher noise level on 160M and
hear BCI pretty strong on certain frequencies on other bands.

The 2 inch coil has lower noise level on 160M and BCI is reduced on other
bands.

If I use a toroid hairpin What would happen to the noise level and BCI?  My
guess is both will be reduced a bit more.

Also what hairpin matching coil should I use and why?

-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Hairpin Matching Coil Questions

[Jim GM]

I am sorry, I left this out, the Hairpin is inserted between the inverted L
and ground / ground radials. coils were tapped for best match, in my case
about 27 ohms is the best I can do.

-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Hairpin Matching Coil Questions

[Jim GM]

Has any one used the MFJ-907 and do what I am trying to do on 160M as a
hairpin match?

>From what I have been reading, Q needs to be high but not sure how high and
what range.  My 6 inch coil with remote tuner in line with the tap on 160m
I am getting around a Q of 80. My 2 inch coil has a Q much lower than that
I know cause the set up has a much larger band width on 160M.

I have around 30 to 40mh of coil from the tap to ground with both coils.
-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Hairpin Matching Coil Questions

[Jim GM]

MFJ and Texas Instrument used this type of calculation for antenna Q.

The other attachment is what some other people are using with their
inverted using the K2AV balun and a Gamma match on bands other than 160M.
 So I thought why not use the same gamma setup on 160M and not the FCP. So
from what you had said best I DO NOT GO THAT ROUTE.

My antenna system morfed into just using my gamma big coil on 160M.


On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 9:32 AM, Jim GM  wrote:

> Has any one used the MFJ-907 and do what I am trying to do on 160M as a
> hairpin match?
>
> From what I have been reading, Q needs to be high but not sure how high
> and what range.  My 6 inch coil with remote tuner in line with the tap on
> 160m I am getting around a Q of 80. My 2 inch coil has a Q much lower
> than that I know cause the set up has a much larger band width on 160M.
>
> I have around 30 to 40mh of coil from the tap to ground with both coils.
> --
> Jim K9TF
>



-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Hairpin Matching Coil Questions

[Jim GM]

The thing works, I mean the shunt match works.

what would be a good Q for just the coil?  300, 600, 900

Operating Q, what is the desired value?  Whats your formula for that?

Q of the operating antenna, cannot be expressed as band width equation I
see so many others use. there is another quick easy formula that, may be a
function or derivative that has some relationship, but not the number we
really want.  Not even sure if it would get every one in every situation in
the ball park.


On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 4:31 PM, Tom W8JI  wrote:

> Hi Jim,
>
> A gamma match is an arm extending out or up on the element from the
> "ground" point. It is named "gamma" because it looks like the capital Greek
> letter called "gamma". See 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Gamma<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma>
>
> A beta match is called a beta because it extends equally on each side of
> the neutral point, roughly looking like the Greek letter beta on it's side
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Beta <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta>
>
> A hairpin match is a hairpin shaped "stub inductor", generally balanced,
> but it could be unbalanced.  It is called a hairpin because it looks like a
> hairpin, just like a "bobby pin" spread out a little.
>
> A shunt matching component can be used, either an inductor or capacitor,
> but this is typically called shunt matching because it is a shunt component
> across the feedpoint. It is not a hairpin unless it is in the form of a
> hairpin.
>
> Hairpins and shunt matching generally act like L networks, with the series
> reactance in the element (caused by adding or subtracting length to move
> the element away from resonance). Gamma and Beta matchs can do the same,
> use the adjustment in length away from resonance to act like a reactance,
> or the Gamma or Beta might contain a series internal component(s) so the
> element can be resonant.
>
> Q can mean many things. The style or construction of the component usually
> has little bearing on the operating Q of the system, unless you have a
> terrible matching system or component design.
>
> The Q people generally talk about in matching is almost always operating
> Q. Operating Q is generally the ratio of real parts of impedance to
> imaginary parts of impedance, or operating resistance compared to component
> reactances in simple systems. For example a simple parallel tank circuit
> with a reactance of 500 ohms in each component shunted by 5000 ohms has an
> operating Q or loaded Q of ten. The component Q might be 300, or 3 zillion,
> and not affect operating Q significantly.
>
> The Q of components is entirely different than operating Q of a system,
> and is the ratio of reactance to resistance in a component.
>
> Q can also be used to describe bandwidth, but if the component or system
> is more complex than a single resonant L, R, and C the Q defined by
> bandwidth might not be related at all to system operating Q as defined by
> losses.
>
> When I think about all of that, and your desire for a certain coil
> conductor type for a Q of 80 for a hairpin (that doesn't use a coil by
> definition of being a hairpin), none of it makes much sense to me. The Q of
> a very simple matching system would generally be discussed as a ratio of
> matching system reactance to resistance of the system at that matching
> point. The Q of a component in the matching system would generally be
> defined as the ratio of loss resistance to reactance of that component by
> itself.
>
> For example, a 200 ohm reactance capacitor of 0.05 ohms loss resistance in
> series with an antenna feedpoint of  50 j200 to cancel reactance and match
> the system would have a component Q of 4000 (200/.05) and an operating Q of
> 3.996 (200/50.05). If I put in a capacitor with a reactance of 200 ohms but
> a seres loss resistance of .5 ohms, capacitor Q would be 400. This would
> insigificantly change operating Q to 200/50.5 = 3.96.
>
> This all makes me think you have operating Q confused with component Q.
>
> Are you trying to solve some problem by reading stuff somewhere, and
> getting confused by it??? Maybe some misinformation or misunderstanding is
> making your project needlessly difficult for you to manage?
>
> 73,
> Tom
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  MFJ and Texas Instrument used this type of calculation for antenna Q.
>>
>> The other attachment is what some other people are using with their
>> inverted using the K2AV balun and a Gamma match on bands other than 160M.
>> So I thought why not use the same gamma setup on 160M and not the FCP. So
>> from what you had said best I DO NOT GO THAT ROUTE.
>>
>> My antenna system morfed in

Re: Topband: Hairpin Matching Coil Questions - "Shunt"?

[Jim GM]

Thankyou Charlie.

I got those Q numbers from
http://www.m0ukd.com/Calculators/air_core_inductor_calculator/
Maybe a decimal point was left out.

Thanks Tom

-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Interesting discovery

[Jim GM]

Too far out to have any affect on 160M. Some day some one will come around
and prove that it does.

-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Homebrew capacitors

[Jim GM]

Could have saved more money with a Piece of RF-9913 or RG8 coax cable about
25pF per foot plenty voltage rating.


Only thing can some one please help me on this, do I connect the center
conductor on one end of the cable and use the shield on the other end? Or
just use the  center conductor and shield on one end, while the other end
are floating not used and not tied together?
Diagram below 0= connection point.

 0

 0

OR

 0
  _0


Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Homebrew capacitors

[Jim GM]

You could use Teflon tap, it is used on plumbing pipe threads to prevent
leaks.  Some one once told me that 1mill thicknes was good for 1K volts.

-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Homebrew capacitors

[Jim GM]

You can use Coax seal in a tube thats used to fill in the gap between coax
connectors to keep the moisture, which has teflon.  Put that on first then
wrap with teflon tap to close up your gaps. To weather seal it, there use
to be the brown tap like stuff radio shack use to have and it molds itself
together. you can then silicone  calk over the top of every thing.

Electricians use a kit when they splice together 2600 volt high current
power lines that run through buildings to prevent corona from happening.
Costly.  The kit is rated for even hight voltages.


On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 9:42 AM, Jim GM  wrote:

> You could use Teflon tap, it is used on plumbing pipe threads to prevent
> leaks.  Some one once told me that 1mill thicknes was good for 1K volts.
>
> --
> Jim K9TF
>



-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector

Topband: W8ji ATR-10 design 160M?

[Jim GM]

My antenna is a 99 foot inverted L for 160M with 95 short radials 2000 feet
of wire.

What I am trying now is W8JI suggested modification design to improve the
ATR-10 design by taps on the coil for adjustment. Works well.
http://www.w8ji.com/antenna_tuners.htm

Had my MFJ-989B at the feed point, I had to add a capacitor to ground 250pf
so it could work. Inductance was at max farthest away from ground. Voltage
was so high at 300 watts in, the 0.125 meshed plate spacing arced over, it
has a T network and I had expected this to happen.
http://www.mfjenterprises.com/support/MFJ-989B/MFJ-989B.pdf  I run 500
watts.

What I was looking at is removing the coil and the input would be at the
top of C1. I made a test with QRP using 2 small spaced caps taken out of an
MFJ-901A. Works well. Because of the high voltage situation would there be
an issue with this and I need to go to a 0.25 inch spacing between plates?
 Vacuum variables are out of my price range.

ATR-10 with W8JI modifications is a high pass tuner or is it?  Removal of
the coil would make this a low pass circuit. Besides that on 160M which one
would be more efficient, and off the top of your head what would be the
percentages?  If you had my make do with what I have setup, what tuning
network would you use?

Does any one have an email address for MFJ Service department?  I have the
wrong one.  I sent my MFJ 998RT to their Service department, the High
voltage that was developed with 300 watts pretty much done it in. The
ATR-10 W8JI redesign has greatly reduce the High voltage that I was seeing
with out the inductor.

-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: W8ji ATR-10 design 160M?

[Jim GM]

Tom W8JI made some measurements back in 1997 on the ATR-15 when it first
came out. Not sure how this will print out.

*
*

*The ATR-15 measures as follows for load R and loss on 1.8 MHz:
12.5 ohms 21.8%(27.8%)
25 ohms 16.5%  (22.9)
50 ohms 10.6%  (11.0)
100 ohms 8.9%  (10.7)
200 ohms 8.1%  (10.4)
400 ohms 7.4%  (10.1)
800 ohms 6.9%  (8.8%)*


Doubling the value of C cuts low impedance losses in half. I put 500 pF
air variable caps in the ATR-15 and the 12.5 ohm loss was 13.1 percent.

I don't even come close to the MFJ-989 results they published. I
measured the values (they are the ones in brackets above) for the 989
using both an HP 4191A analyzer and a Harris RF voltmeter, as well as
confirmed on meters.


My question is where in the tee match was the extra capacitance installed?
was it going to ground?

N4XM commented in 1997  on the MFJ 989 review.

>*>>T network tuners (like the 989, Xmatch, Vectronics, Tucker, *
>*>>Murch, etc) handle the least power on 160 and with capacitive*
>*>>reactance low resistance loads. T network tuners handle MORE *
>*>>power into higher resistance loads or loads with some amount *
>*>>of inductive reactance. *


w8JI comments

>*L network tuners (like the Ten-Tec, Nye Viking, etc) handle more*
>*power into impedances near 50 ohms, but often do a poor job *
>*matching reactive or very low impedance loads on low frequencies. (Sometimes*
>*these tuners are called Pi-networks, even though*
>*they do not really function as a pi except perhaps on 15 or ten*
>*meters) *
>**
>*In a T network tuner, maximum efficiency and power handling *
>*generally occurs when maximum and equal amounts of *
>*capacitance are used in the capacitors, and the least amount of*
>*inductance is used. This is true even though many other settings*
>*will produce a low SWR.*



I later read more archives.  What came up was the ATR-30  How beefy it was.
 What the plate spacing on this tuners capacitors?  I would think on a
short antenna like mine it is not enough.

So back to the ATR-10.  The W8JI design with variable taps seams to handle
high power with nor arcing problems.
 I just do not know why this is working for me. Can some one please explain
this to me I am confused?  All this reading
requires a younger mind.

Jim K9TF

On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Jim GM  wrote:

>
> My antenna is a 99 foot inverted L for 160M with 95 short radials 2000
> feet of wire.
>
> What I am trying now is W8JI suggested modification design to improve the
> ATR-10 design by taps on the coil for adjustment. Works well.
> http://www.w8ji.com/antenna_tuners.htm
>
> Had my MFJ-989B at the feed point, I had to add a capacitor to ground
> 250pf so it could work. Inductance was at max farthest away from ground.
> Voltage was so high at 300 watts in, the 0.125 meshed plate spacing arced
> over, it has a T network and I had expected this to happen.
> http://www.mfjenterprises.com/support/MFJ-989B/MFJ-989B.pdf  I run 500
> watts.
>
> What I was looking at is removing the coil and the input would be at the
> top of C1. I made a test with QRP using 2 small spaced caps taken out of an
> MFJ-901A. Works well. Because of the high voltage situation would there be
> an issue with this and I need to go to a 0.25 inch spacing between plates?
>  Vacuum variables are out of my price range.
>
> ATR-10 with W8JI modifications is a high pass tuner or is it?  Removal of
> the coil would make this a low pass circuit. Besides that on 160M which one
> would be more efficient, and off the top of your head what would be the
> percentages?  If you had my make do with what I have setup, what tuning
> network would you use?
>
> Does any one have an email address for MFJ Service department?  I have the
> wrong one.  I sent my MFJ 998RT to their Service department, the High
> voltage that was developed with 300 watts pretty much done it in. The
> ATR-10 W8JI redesign has greatly reduce the High voltage that I was seeing
> with out the inductor.
>
> --
> Jim K9TF
>



-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: W8ji ATR-10 design 160M?

[Jim GM]

Sorry I need to add some thing I left out.

The ATR-10 modification I am using is without the series capacitor sorta
speak.
The MFJ 989B is fed into a tap on the coil. Cause of the T network on the
tuner
There is series capacitance on the input to the external components.
So the external components is an inductive L network with a cap from the
antenna going to ground.
100pF seams to give the MFJ 989B a bit more tuning  range than the 250pF
cap.

Jim K9TF


On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 12:56 PM, Jim GM  wrote:

> Tom W8JI made some measurements back in 1997 on the ATR-15 when it first
> came out. Not sure how this will print out.
>
> *
> *
>
> *The ATR-15 measures as follows for load R and loss on 1.8 MHz:
> 12.5 ohms 21.8%(27.8%)
> 25 ohms 16.5%  (22.9)
> 50 ohms 10.6%  (11.0)
> 100 ohms 8.9%  (10.7)
> 200 ohms 8.1%  (10.4)
> 400 ohms 7.4%  (10.1)
> 800 ohms 6.9%  (8.8%)*
>
>
> Doubling the value of C cuts low impedance losses in half. I put 500 pF
> air variable caps in the ATR-15 and the 12.5 ohm loss was 13.1 percent.
>
> I don't even come close to the MFJ-989 results they published. I
> measured the values (they are the ones in brackets above) for the 989
> using both an HP 4191A analyzer and a Harris RF voltmeter, as well as
> confirmed on meters.
>
>
> My question is where in the tee match was the extra capacitance installed?
> was it going to ground?
>
> N4XM commented in 1997  on the MFJ 989 review.
>
> >*>>T network tuners (like the 989, Xmatch, Vectronics, Tucker, *
> >*>>Murch, etc) handle the least power on 160 and with capacitive*
> >*>>reactance low resistance loads. T network tuners handle MORE *
> >*>>power into higher resistance loads or loads with some amount *
> >*>>of inductive reactance. *
>
>
> w8JI comments
>
>  >*L network tuners (like the Ten-Tec, Nye Viking, etc) handle more*
> >*power into impedances near 50 ohms, but often do a poor job *
> >*matching reactive or very low impedance loads on low frequencies. 
> >(Sometimes*
> >*these tuners are called Pi-networks, even though*
> >*they do not really function as a pi except perhaps on 15 or ten*
> >*meters) *
> >**
> >*In a T network tuner, maximum efficiency and power handling *
> >*generally occurs when maximum and equal amounts of *
> >*capacitance are used in the capacitors, and the least amount of*
> >*inductance is used. This is true even though many other settings*
> >*will produce a low SWR.*
>
>
>
> I later read more archives.  What came up was the ATR-30  How beefy it was.
>  What the plate spacing on this tuners capacitors?  I would think on a
> short antenna like mine it is not enough.
>
> So back to the ATR-10.  The W8JI design with variable taps seams to handle
> high power with nor arcing problems.
>  I just do not know why this is working for me. Can some one please
> explain this to me I am confused?  All this reading
> requires a younger mind.
>
> Jim K9TF
>
> On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Jim GM  wrote:
>
>>
>> My antenna is a 99 foot inverted L for 160M with 95 short radials 2000
>> feet of wire.
>>
>> What I am trying now is W8JI suggested modification design to improve the
>> ATR-10 design by taps on the coil for adjustment. Works well.
>> http://www.w8ji.com/antenna_tuners.htm
>>
>> Had my MFJ-989B at the feed point, I had to add a capacitor to ground
>> 250pf so it could work. Inductance was at max farthest away from ground.
>> Voltage was so high at 300 watts in, the 0.125 meshed plate spacing arced
>> over, it has a T network and I had expected this to happen.
>> http://www.mfjenterprises.com/support/MFJ-989B/MFJ-989B.pdf  I run 500
>> watts.
>>
>> What I was looking at is removing the coil and the input would be at the
>> top of C1. I made a test with QRP using 2 small spaced caps taken out of an
>> MFJ-901A. Works well. Because of the high voltage situation would there be
>> an issue with this and I need to go to a 0.25 inch spacing between plates?
>>  Vacuum variables are out of my price range.
>>
>> ATR-10 with W8JI modifications is a high pass tuner or is it?  Removal of
>> the coil would make this a low pass circuit. Besides that on 160M which one
>> would be more efficient, and off the top of your head what would be the
>> percentages?  If you had my make do with what I have setup, what tuning
>> network would you use?
>>
>> Does any one have an email address for MFJ Service department?  I have
>> the wrong one.  I sent my MFJ 998RT to their Service department, the High
>> voltage that was developed with 300 watts pretty much done it in. The
>> ATR-10 W8JI redesign has greatly reduce the High voltage that I was seeing
>> with out the inductor.
>>
>> --
>> Jim K9TF
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jim K9TF
>



-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: W8ji ATR-10 design 160M?

[Jim GM]

Hi Paul

http://lists.contesting.com/_topband/1997-01/msg00037.html  You posted the
comment from W8JI on a reply sorry about that. .  No biggie.

What the patent number?  I would like to read more about it.

So what different bout your tuner, is it like the ATR-10 design?

These transmatches these days T matches just do not have the balls for 160M
running power.  I melted down a MFJ 998RT arced plates on an MFJ 989B
melted down a 25uH Millen coil, arced wire burned up insulation all with
500 watts :-) I tried different configurations.  Short 99 foot inverted L
does give me a challenge. 0.175 plate spacing arcs over. 0.25 spacing on
caps is needed or vacuums variables which are not in my budget.

Capacitor L match ARC over. Vacuums variables or open air variable caps
with 0.25 inch spacing is needed for 300 watts or better.

Inductive L match has heat and at times enough heat to melt spacers on a
Millen coil.

Who makes a tuner that can take this abuse?

-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: W8ji ATR-10 design 160M?

[Jim GM]

That tuner is capable of all those combinations?
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4763087.pdf

That is just a work of art. You can switch this to any combination or add
caps or inductance.

Looks to me the fixed capacitance is when your in a High voltage situation
gives you the isolation
you need when the variable cap starts arcing over.  Then you run into the
cols heating up.

I moved my 100pF cap, that goes to ground, on the antenna side of the
series inductor, to the same input point at connection point of the tuner
and external network. So the output of the MFJ 989B
has a cap going to ground.

Arcing at 500 watts on 160M has stopped. I beefed up the coil and installed
an edge wound coil from a 1929 TBK transmitter. If my solder joints do not
hold up I will have to switch out the #12 copper connecting wire to copper
tubing.

Wish I had all those parts from the TBK, sold it all.

Alternating phase of feed line, isn't thats what they use to do on TV
antennas but they twisted it for the same reason?  Hard to do with home
brew feed line. Must break up resonate lengths so not to be resonate on any
one frequency.

A, the things we forget about that still work.
-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: W8ji ATR-10 design 160M?

[Jim GM]

I understand least amount of inductance.  I can email a Power Point file of
what I have.
if any one is interested.  Just ignore my notes.  They just remind me what
I have done
so I do not do over again.

I am not getting multiple minimum SWR points.

If I move the external capacitance in
between the 2 external inductors I can run 500 watts with out an arc over.

Keeping the 100 pF external cap there and add another 100pF cap back at the
antenna
going to ground the cap in the MFJ-989 B starts arcing around 300 watts
again.

I am at a bit of a loss.  My MFJ-998RT auto tuner will be back from repairs
soon.  If I
do not do something with this situation I will FRY the thing again.

-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: W8ji ATR-10 design 160M?

[Jim GM]

What is the real or best guess what value this inductor has? This is what I
am using.

Edge wound coil is 1/2 inch wide, 1/32 inch thick stock, coil is 2 1/2
inches long,15 turns, 4.5” ID, 5.5” OD

transmit tap is at 9 turns, 6 turns remain going to antenna. Inductance
calculations were found here

http://www.66pacific.com/calculators/coil_calc.aspx<%22http://www.66pacific.com/calculators/coil>
Total inductance is 29.6uH, 9 turns = 12.7uH, 6 turns = 6.7 uH, 6 turns =
7.9 feet.

If you wound a coil with 1/8 inch or 1/4 inch copper tubing , is there any
online calculator that can give you a good answer on its value?

-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Wanted - Hardline connectors

[Jim GM]

City has a rat infestation.  Digging all kinds of holes under peoples
wooden decks.  They did some construction work in the street and drove them
out.  They never addresses the problem before it happened.

They at through Time Warners under ground main feed for 400 homes, node
line, they have to replace a 300 foot section in the same spot every 6
months. Galvanized pipe  schedule 40 or better yet 80 pipe with cable
inside should slow the varmints down for a while.

-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Wanted - Hardline connectors

[Jim GM]

Our Cities rat issue is easting the underground TWC in chases in the
street. Stupid critters even eat through concrete.

IMT Ridged rusts through in Wisconsin soil around 15 years. Sked 40 or 80
Pipe with PVC pushed inside should last a life time.  Back in the day at
the paper mill we used Sked 40 with lined PVC, special made stuff buried
that underground lasted over 30 years and no doubt is still there intact.

Gas line was double jacketed. Stuff is over 60 years and still going.
 Inner jacket copper pipe still like new.

-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: K9W

[Jim GM]

K9W was a well running machine.  Wish I could say the same about this
inverted L.

It worked great on 160 and 40M at the beginning of the expedition and
worked em on these bands.
Tried on 80M and higher frequencies just no luck hearing them then along
try to work em.
Propagation maybe? My antenna, most likely. Maybe antennas oxidized from
the salt spray and
antenna efficiency drops.  Seams to be common on thing happening on some of
these expeditions.

Lets see, I worked K9W on 2 bands and was in the log. I worked K9W 5 more
times on the other
bands that I needed them on, Pirates. Where is my WORKED ALL PIRATES AWARD?

-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Verifying integrity of 75 ohm coax.

[Jim GM]

What is making you believe you have a faulty 75 ohm coax?

I would hang a 50 ohm dummy load on it at the end of the cable that goes to
the antenna and load it to the same power level you have the problem with.

Then move the dummy load to the next joint then the next joint and so on
and do the same test.

Verify and re-verify. shack and move connectors to see if it happens again.

Replace bad section.

My guess, and I have guessed wrong many times is a bad connector joint.
When this happens I replace the cabe and connectors and start all over with
new.

-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Verifying integrity of 75 ohm coax.

[Jim GM]

Vaseline will work keeps moisture out, non conductive.  You can cover a lot
of surface. Over years it drys out gets crusty. Vaseline is made of lanolin
mostly, I believe.

Neverseizes or anitseize compound found in any hardware store, Works very
well drys out some but keeps working for years. buried cables with claps
and wrapped with electrical tap connects look like new when taken apart.
 Underground cable going to house for Time Warner cable has it in
inpregnanted in the shielding jacket.

-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Verifying integrity of 75 ohm coax.

[Jim GM]

You do not flod the inside DAH! Coat the darn stuff on the ouside DAH!

-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Verifying integrity of 75 ohm coax.

[Jim GM]

You Flood it with Stuf like this
http://www.amazon.com/Other-Dielectric-Waterproofing-Filler-STUF/dp/B004QPN14C


Fi you do not take care of moisture coming in from the out side it will
oxides your connections or solder joints so you coat
the OUTSIDE with PETROLEUM JELLY Hospital grade.

In a bind you can use PETROLEUM JELY aka VASELINE, it will in time dry out
and needs to be re-applied.  Remember to
wrap electrical tape over it very loosely the apply more tape so that the
Vaseline does not SE out.

DAH !!!


On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 11:11 AM, Jim GM  wrote:

> You do not flod the inside DAH! Coat the darn stuff on the ouside DAH!
>
> --
> Jim K9TF
>



-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Verifying integrity of 75 ohm coax.

[Jim GM]

OLD TRICk is make the first layer of the tape sticky side up and smooth
side down on the first layer.  Helps keeps down the mess.

Like ON4UN said you can flood it with the Jelly, problem is it does dry
out, and when it does then you have problems.  It takes a few years to dry
out.

Anti-seize is very messy hard to clean up, you have to be very careful what
you touch, the stuff is conductive. Not a good idea to flood this stuff on
the inside of the connector. NOT RECOMMENDED.

FYI: Topic as it started out is on a receive antenna connections not a
transmit antenna. Connectors were corroded and thought varmints ate the
cable.
Like anything else, cable and connections must be maintained. Frequency of
the maintenance depends on what you use, and the quality of the product,
availability of the product needed, and how soon you want it fixed.

Whats the right way of doing it? Depends on your time and what it is worth
to you, how deep your pocket book is, and is it really worth the effort and
replace every  thing.


On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Jim GM  wrote:

> You Flood it with Stuf like this
> http://www.amazon.com/Other-Dielectric-Waterproofing-Filler-STUF/dp/B004QPN14C
>
>
> Fi you do not take care of moisture coming in from the out side it will
> oxides your connections or solder joints so you coat
> the OUTSIDE with PETROLEUM JELLY Hospital grade.
>
> In a bind you can use PETROLEUM JELY aka VASELINE, it will in time dry out
> and needs to be re-applied.  Remember to
> wrap electrical tape over it very loosely the apply more tape so that the
> Vaseline does not SE out.
>
> DAH !!!
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 11:11 AM, Jim GM  wrote:
>
>> You do not flod the inside DAH! Coat the darn stuff on the ouside DAH!
>>
>> --
>> Jim K9TF
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jim K9TF
>



-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Verifying integrity of 75 ohm coax.

[Jim GM]

When Vaseline dries out thats telling you that air is getting in.  If air
is getting in, moisture is getting in and contaminating to cable and
connector.

Same goes with what ever dielectric you use as well.

-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Insulator problems

[Jim GM]

Not sure what your replacing if it is a round insulator piece for 2 pipes
or stand off type insulator for matching section or what?

Try fiberglass rod material or Teflon blocks depends on application.
 Teflon blocks were used on heavy industrial equipment when shipped so the
equipment can be slide over the floor.

Bird poop will short things out no matter what you use!!



-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: Topband Dayton Q

[Jim GM]

Are there any hospitality suites or meeting place or watering hole that
TopBand meets at Dayton?

I am going to Dayton this year.

-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Outdoor rope suggestions

[Jim GM]

Flag companies use a rope with a Kevlar core and a nylon out side. Seams to
be the best.

Flag companies use a steel core rope as well with a nylon rope jacket but
it rusts breaks apart and the nylon rope breaks apart with it.

Nylon lasts a Long time but it stretches like a rubber band.

Polypropylene even the black  UV carbon type thats sun resistance has that
10 year life span sun just east it up. You can get a mixed Polypropylene nylon
combination from Netting stores that sell commercial fishing net equipment,
but even that the sun eats it up.

-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Outdoor rope suggestions

[Jim GM]

In about 7 years that Dacron stuff starts to dry out and comes apart
slowly, Rots it in water like rain gutters.

I have seen some guys use this Space Walk gray tethering cord for fling big
kites 120 square feet of sail and bigger.  Not sure of the composition and
how UV resistant it is. Has a very high Tensile strength for how small it
is. Not sure what they call it.

-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Pre-Stew

[Jim GM]

Any one hear me calling CQ  or called me and I did not come back to you?

I was running QRP with a KX3, and using my transmit antenna for receive. I
worked VP5 and KV4 for DX and may other stations.  I operated the full 14
hours. with 3 breaks in the 24 hour period.  The band here has a 10 to 12db
QSB and it was a slow fade so you had to wait for certain stations to get
louder so I could work them.  I had a nice time.

I had a problem I got the shivers  when I went to bed.  Teeth chattered.
Most likely cause I was up 24 hours. Drank water during the contest. Whats
the preventative for this not to happen.  Maybe it is my age of 61 thats
part of the problem. Just cannot take contests any more.

-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Receive loop observations

[Jim GM]

Ok guys how well will that loop Jim is talking about over a radial field if
this receiving antenna is about 5 -7 feet off the ground? How far do you
need to stay away from your radial field?

>From what I have been reading loop antennas and shielded loops couple into
your radial field and pick up that noise rendering in useless rather
receives the same as your transmit antenna.

-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband