Re: Topband: Radial Question

[Charlie Cunningham]

Hi, Bill

Well, I have modeled a 160 inverted L with 4 elevated resonant radials, with
EXNEC, and that's about as good as it gets! Guys with grounded towers have
to dig and bury radials or run 'em on the ground but the broadcasters'
experience with elevated radials indicates the 4 is about as good as it gets
- adding more doesn't add much.  Having the resonant radials fanned over
less than 360 degrees can produce sone asymmetry in the azimuth pattern, but
mine with two at 90 degrees worked quite well in all directions! Generally,
if I could hear 'em I could work 'em. The KAZ receiving loops helped a LOT
on receive!

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Stewart
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 5:25 PM
To: Robert L Chortek
Cc: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Radial Question

Hi Bob,
I can't add much in the way of technical reasons for adding
the radials vs a c-poise. However, I can say that my Inv. L, with
a four wire quarter wave c-poise has worked quite well...and 
with much less work than all the radials you are considering.
I use only 100 watts and have worked into the Carib. and the
recent K9W operation. I also have been using a HB QRP xmtr from
1924 and have worked from C6 up into VE2/VE3.  

I would wonder about the possibility of 'under-the-house' radials
putting rf into your house wiring, and if using your xmit antenna
for rcving, picking up trash from your in-house gadgets...tv, computer
etc, esp if you are running power. You may be able to get someone
to model the two systems and the results might help you make up
your mind. 

Good luck with what ever method you end up with...73 de Bill K4JYS (NC)

- Original Message -
From: "Robert L Chortek" 
To: topband@contesting.com
Sent: Monday, January 6, 2014 2:51:50 PM
Subject: Topband: Radial Question

Hello Fellow Topbanders -

We are about to embark on a front yard landscaping project at our home on a
tiny 12, 500 sq. ft. lot.

It occurred to me this would be an excellent opportunity to put down a large
number of buried ground radials BUT, they  would only cover about 90 degrees
of the compass. Then it also occurred to me I could put down a large number
of radials in our crawl space under the house.

So, my question is, what is the likely negative impact, if any, from the
house being between the 160 meter vertical and the radials placed under the
house?  I assume the house material, most of which is wood, tile, sheetrock,
etc. (with the usual house wiring) would be invisible to RF and have minimal
impact.

If I could put down say 60 radials ranging in length from 40  to 120 feet
long, would it outperform my current system with 8 resonant elevated radials
10 -15 feet high (which cover only about 120 degrees of the compass)?   I'm
incline to proceed IF it would provide a meaningful improvement in my
transmitted signal strength.

Thanks for any help!

73,

Bob/AA6VB

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Radial Question

[Charlie Cunningham]

Makes sense and agrees with my experience, Gary!  BTW, I have worked Alaska
from here in Raleigh with my 2-elevated radial Inverted L. Don't recall
off-hand if it was  you, I worked.

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary and
Kathleen Pearse
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 5:14 PM
To: topband List
Subject: Re: Topband: Radial Question

I'd run a test wire under the house and connect it to the rig. Listen for
noise. Then connect to house ground and see if noisy. Compare that with each
existing elevated radial for QRN. 

Here in Fairbanks anything through the home or grounded to the house or
tower on 160 is worse than my ungrounded elevated radials. One elevated
radial (of 8) near the power line is the noisiest. I disconnect it when it
gets bad.

73, Gary NL7Y
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Radial Question

[Charlie Cunningham]

I'd stay with the elevated radials,Bob!  They're hard to beat! For some
years I had an 70 ft tall inverted L at a back corner of my lot. I had only
two elevated resonant radials 90 degrees apart on the back and side lot
lines . I worked lots of stuff in Eu, middle east,  The Pacific, Indian and
Atlantic oceans with 500W.  3B8, S7, KH6, KH5K, FO0, KH2, KH0, JA, VK, ZL,
ZD9 etc.. Generally if I could hear them on my KAZ antenna, I could work
'em. BTW, if you run radials in  your crawl space, you risk coupling energy
into your house wiring from the close proximity radial currents.

Good luck

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Chortek,
Robert L
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 2:52 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: Radial Question

Hello Fellow Topbanders -

We are about to embark on a front yard landscaping project at our home on a
tiny 12, 500 sq. ft. lot.

It occurred to me this would be an excellent opportunity to put down a large
number of buried ground radials BUT, they  would only cover about 90 degrees
of the compass. Then it also occurred to me I could put down a large number
of radials in our crawl space under the house.

So, my question is, what is the likely negative impact, if any, from the
house being between the 160 meter vertical and the radials placed under the
house?  I assume the house material, most of which is wood, tile, sheetrock,
etc. (with the usual house wiring) would be invisible to RF and have minimal
impact.

If I could put down say 60 radials ranging in length from 40  to 120 feet
long, would it outperform my current system with 8 resonant elevated radials
10 -15 feet high (which cover only about 120 degrees of the compass)?   I'm
incline to proceed IF it would provide a meaningful improvement in my
transmitted signal strength.

Thanks for any help!

73,

Bob/AA6VB

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Digial mode spurious issues

[Charlie Cunningham]

True!!

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Joe
Subich, W4TV
Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 9:33 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Digial mode spurious issues


> While we call these digital modes, they are really baseband audio
> transmissions run through SSB transmitters. They are subject to all
> the dynamic range problems and limitations of SSB transmitters
> processing the same types of audio tones.

Like it or not, all digital transmitters and all digital modes except
old direct FSK are essentially SSB transmitters with a subcarrier on
which the digital information has been modulated.  The SSB transmitter
is nothing more than a series of mixer stages and amplifiers designed
to put the subcarrier on the final at the necessary power level.

The issue is, and always has been (even with AFSK RTTY), that the
mixer/amplifier stages need to be distortion free and the conversion
oscillators need to be clean.  That means careful attention to
synthesizer phase noise (Icom, Flex Radio?), gain distribution,
linearity and proper interfacing.  There are too many poorly designed
"modern" rigs (noisy synthesizers), improperly maintained older rigs,
and technically unsophisticated users who don't understand that digital
subcarriers should be injected through the "line in" direct modulator
input of their transceivers rather than the mic jack and through audio
processing.

Of course it doesn't help that modern solid state amplifiers all seem
have all of 1 dB between the 1dB compression point and saturation with
ALC circuits that are designed to keep the average power at the 1 dB
compression point rather than keeping the PEP at the 1 dB compression
point.  Couple digital modes like PSK## and others with 6 to 14 dB
"crest factors" with ALC circuits designed to push the amplifier to
the average power level and IF gains as much as 20 dB "too hot", one
has an inherently unstable system that is beyond the ability of most
technically unsophisticated users to understand or control.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 1/2/2014 12:14 PM, Tom W8JI wrote:
>> I have been using WSJT since 2001 and cringe every time I hear it
>> called a "QRP mode".
>
> I want to put this to rest with just a few more comments.
>
> While we call these digital modes, they are really baseband audio
> transmissions run through SSB transmitters. They are subject to all the
> dynamic range problems and limitations of SSB transmitters processing
> the same types of audio tones.
>
> The usual "cure" offered for the poor or limited performance of the SSB
> systems that process the encoded audio is to turn the power down. That
> doesn't always work to eliminate problems, plus low power obviously
> limits the potential range.
>
> This stuff is really all just an audio signal processed by a SSB rig.
> That's why it can go into the SSB transmitter! SSB transmitters are just
> not that good, and that is why these systems create adjacent channel
> problems and will always create problems. They should be off someplace
> out of the way of weak CW signals, not nestled up against weak signal CW
> areas. A receiver cannot filter out transmitter flaws, no matter what
> some might claim or imagine. If a spurious signal is right on top of a
> weak station, it is on top of it.
>
> These are just the hard, cold, facts of life. It's just disappointing we
> have no technical people who think things through before picking
> frequencies for "new modes".
>
> 73 Tom
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Digial mode spurious issues

[Charlie Cunningham]

Yes, it really is just baseband audio into an SSB transmitter. And some of
the new rigs that run that process audio through A/D converters to digitize
if for DSP are just asking for trouble. 

I guess I'm an "old fart", but I suspect that a 12AX7 triode audio preamp,
with its 3/2 power-law transfer characteristic and perhaps 150 volts on its
plates will withstand a bit of overdrive with a lot less harmonic distortion
than an A/D converter operating from 3- 5 volts and driven beyond its range
into saturation where it produces hard, "brick-wall" limiting! Not all
things are best done digitally! I suspect that some of these "digital" modes
are improperly adjusted, resulting in excessive audio drive into the SSB
transmitters. AND if the transmitter is using IF DSP and/or I/Q modulation
for sideband selection, there are more opportunities for spurious outputs.
FWIW

Good to turn down the drive in the audio inputs of  the SSB transmitters!

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom W8JI
Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 12:14 PM
To: topband@contesting.com; k...@vhfdx.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Digial mode spurious issues

> I have been using WSJT since 2001 and cringe every time I hear it 
> called a "QRP mode".

I want to put this to rest with just a few more comments.

While we call these digital modes, they are really baseband audio
transmissions run through SSB transmitters. They are subject to all the
dynamic range problems and limitations of SSB transmitters processing the
same types of audio tones.

The usual "cure" offered for the poor or limited performance of the SSB
systems that process the encoded audio is to turn the power down. That
doesn't always work to eliminate problems, plus low power obviously limits
the potential range.

This stuff is really all just an audio signal processed by a SSB rig. That's
why it can go into the SSB transmitter! SSB transmitters are just not that
good, and that is why these systems create adjacent channel problems and
will always create problems. They should be off someplace out of the way of
weak CW signals, not nestled up against weak signal CW areas. A receiver
cannot filter out transmitter flaws, no matter what some might claim or
imagine. If a spurious signal is right on top of a weak station, it is on
top of it.

These are just the hard, cold, facts of life. It's just disappointing we
have no technical people who think things through before picking frequencies
for "new modes".

73 Tom 

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Digital mode spurious issues

[Charlie Cunningham]

Well, I certainly have to agree, Tom, if the signal on the desired sideband
is just a single shifting tone. Might get messier if an sudio stage or A/D
is driven into limiting and producing harmonic distortion at audio, I guess.

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom W8JI
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 10:56 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Digital mode spurious issues

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I'm going to have to install some 
software to identify some of the signals.


>I would think that IMD products in a high-level PA that is over-driven
> beyond good linearity  limits could add some junk in the "undesired
> sideband"? FWIW
>

IMD **requires** two or more signals at once, and does not appear anything 
like sideband leakage. This was a single shifting tone, and the lower 
frequency signal went the opposite way but the same amount as the main 
signal with shifts. That is classic for inadequate sideband suppression.

There are multiple problems with using SSB to transmit audio tones and 
"thinking" it is a pure digi mode.

1.) things like this do not show on almost all digi waterfalls because they 
are out of passband of the other fellows receiver.

2.) SSB carrier, noise, and opposite sideband suppression is limited by the 
radio quality

3.) output purity is also limited by audio input purity, which includes 
audio line issues

4.) most digi operators do not have the low noise antennas most DXers have, 
and cannot hear some fairly strong signals. They are often on digimodes 
because of that!

5.) radios have terrible SSB transmitter performance compared to even fair 
receivers, so the transmitters often set the adjacent channel interference 
levels

Placing digimodes near weak signal areas is not very wise frequency 
planning, but there is nothing anyone can do about it. 

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Digital mode spurious issues

[Charlie Cunningham]

Hi, Jim

Well as one who has been an RF and radio engineer and designer for 40+
years, I have to agree with most all of  your points. Great deal of truth in
there, but so many guys don't appreciate all those things and their
inclination is "crank it to the right" and "the "louder you shout, the
further  you get"! And they are looking for large meter excursions. To
appreciate the tendency to overdrive transmitters and amplifiers. One need
only listen to the the prevalence of awful key clicks and SSB splatter in
contests!

(And "real men" use vacuum tubes to develop "real power"!  :-) )

73,
Charie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim Brown
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 6:52 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Digital mode spurious issues

On 12/30/2013 3:13 PM, Charlie Cunningham wrote:
> I would think that IMD products in a high-level PA that is over-driven
> beyond good linearity  limits could add some junk in the "undesired
> sideband"? FWIW

Yes. Indeed, any IMD would do that.  K6XX is an Elecraft engineer who 
worked on their KPA500, among other things, and looked at a lot of 
competing power amps in preparation for doing so. Bob recently did an 
excellent tutorial presentation to a meeting of the Northern California 
Contest Club about the root causes of sideband trash, the general 
properties of various amplifier types, and how to minimize the trash.

In general:

Distortion products increase when the antenna is poorly matched to the 
amplifier That's true whether it's a tuned tube amp or a fixed tuned 
solid state amp -- in other words, the tube amp must be carefully tuned, 
and the solid state amp should be used with a tuner if the antenna is 
not an ideal match.

Distortion products increase as power supply voltage decreases. In other 
words, a rig designed to run on 13.8 volts will be much cleaner at 13.8 
volts than at 12V.

Most solid state output stages are cleaner at half power than at full 
power. That means that a rig will be cleaner driving a power amp at 50W 
than at 100 W.

Using AGC between the power amp and the rig to set output level is a 
recipe for sideband trash.

A properly tuned hollow state power amp is typically 8-10 dB cleaner 
than the best  solid state amps.

Fast rise time of the keying waveform is the major cause of clicks W8JI 
and others long ago identified this as the cause of the FT1000-series 
rigs awful clicks, and fixed them. The rise time of some rigs (notably 
the IC7600) is adjustable, and only the slowest rise time is acceptable. 
The K3 uses an optimally shaped keying waveform (which designer N6KR 
calls "sigmoidal") to minimize clicks, and it is not user adjustable.

Most ICOM rigs have overshoot that also causes clicks.

Something I learned from N6KR a few days ago is that the very low level 
of sideband trash from a K3 is the result of two design elements. First, 
the synthesizer is very clean.. Second, they run it through the TX 
crystal filter, which gets rid of trash more distant from the carrier.

73, Jim K9YC
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Digital mode spurious issues

[Charlie Cunningham]

I would think that IMD products in a high-level PA that is over-driven
beyond good linearity  limits could add some junk in the "undesired
sideband"? FWIW

Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Joe
Subich, W4TV
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 6:05 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Digital mode spurious issues


 > Does the Joe Taylor software have a provision for this?

No, Joe Taylor's protocols are not capable of operating in LSB.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 12/30/2013 5:59 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
> The simplest technical solution would be for the digital mode users to 
> put the radio in LSB mode.
> This puts unwanted sideband QRM away from the DX CW window.  Does the 
> Joe Taylor software have a provision for this?
>
> Rick N6RK
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: DX-100 adventure - progress

[Charlie Cunningham]

After reflecting on your point, that is obviously true, Tom, I would go
ahead and spend a few cents on some rectifiers to put across those
electrolytics!

Operating electrolytics in series is just something I don't do -except in a
voltage-doubler or a Cockroft-Walton multiplier.

Have a Merry Christmas!

Charlie,  K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Charlie
Cunningham
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2013 1:32 PM
To: 'Tom W8JI'; 'Bill Cromwell'; 'top Band'
Subject: Re: Topband: DX-100 adventure - progress

Diodes across the electrolytics ro prevent reverse chargin would probably be
a good idea. 1N4007 1000 PIV, 1 A rectifiers should do nicely.

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom W8JI
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2013 1:02 PM
To: Charlie Cunningham; 'Bill Cromwell'; 'top Band'
Subject: Re: Topband: DX-100 adventure - progress

> BTW, Biii - tip/suggestion  - for those series-connected electrolytics 
> you probably should put a pair of equal value resistors - one across 
> each series capacitor, as the leakage currents will not be equal in 
> each capacitor in each series string and the DC voltage won't divide 
> equally across each capacitor unless you put individual "bleeder" or 
> "swamping" resistors across each cap in the series pair to equalize 
> the DC across each capacitor in the series!

It is worse than that.

With a single bleeder for two series capacitors, the capacitor with the
least capacitance will always be reversed charged upon every power down. So
even you have equal voltages by equal leakages, you have to add a parallel
diode or the discharge will reverse charge the cap with the lowest
capacitance value. 

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: DX-100 adventure - progress

[Charlie Cunningham]

Diodes across the electrolytics ro prevent reverse chargin would probably be
a good idea. 1N4007 1000 PIV, 1 A rectifiers should do nicely.

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom W8JI
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2013 1:02 PM
To: Charlie Cunningham; 'Bill Cromwell'; 'top Band'
Subject: Re: Topband: DX-100 adventure - progress

> BTW, Biii - tip/suggestion  - for those series-connected electrolytics you
> probably should put a pair of equal value resistors - one across each 
> series
> capacitor, as the leakage currents will not be equal in each capacitor in
> each series string and the DC voltage won't divide equally across each
> capacitor unless you put individual "bleeder" or "swamping" resistors 
> across
> each cap in the series pair to equalize the DC across each capacitor in 
> the
> series!

It is worse than that.

With a single bleeder for two series capacitors, the capacitor with the 
least capacitance will always be reversed charged upon every power down. So 
even you have equal voltages by equal leakages, you have to add a parallel 
diode or the discharge will reverse charge the cap with the lowest 
capacitance value. 

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: DX-100 adventure - progress

[Charlie Cunningham]

I REALLY don't care for connecting electrolytics in series. However, Bill
does say that the DX-100  already is configured with individual bleeders
across each capacitor in those series pairs - so he may be OK.



-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom W8JI
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2013 1:02 PM
To: Charlie Cunningham; 'Bill Cromwell'; 'top Band'
Subject: Re: Topband: DX-100 adventure - progress

> BTW, Biii - tip/suggestion  - for those series-connected electrolytics you
> probably should put a pair of equal value resistors - one across each 
> series
> capacitor, as the leakage currents will not be equal in each capacitor in
> each series string and the DC voltage won't divide equally across each
> capacitor unless you put individual "bleeder" or "swamping" resistors 
> across
> each cap in the series pair to equalize the DC across each capacitor in 
> the
> series!

It is worse than that.

With a single bleeder for two series capacitors, the capacitor with the 
least capacitance will always be reversed charged upon every power down. So 
even you have equal voltages by equal leakages, you have to add a parallel 
diode or the discharge will reverse charge the cap with the lowest 
capacitance value. 

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: DX-100 adventure - progress

[Charlie Cunningham]

Hi, Bill!

That's great! You're good to go with the elecrolytics, then!

BTW - as for the chirp on the signal - the DX-100 VFO  and voltage regulator
was pretty much  what they sold separately as the VF-1 vfo. The DX-40 had a
socket to power it, but I never could get rid of the chirp, until I built a
separate PS for the VFO. The OA2 gas tube just wasn't stiff enough to
eliminate the chirp. You might be able to eliminate most of the chirp by
replacing the gas tube with a Zener Diode. By the time you get up ro a 100
volts with the Zener, it's really avalanche breakdown and has a pretty stiff
knee. Might improve your chirp!

Have Fun!

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Cromwell
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 11:12 PM
To: Charlie Cunningham
Cc: 'top Band'
Subject: Re: Topband: DX-100 adventure - progress

On 12/20/2013 11:00 PM, Charlie Cunningham wrote:
> BTW, Biii - tip/suggestion  - for those series-connected electrolytics you
> probably should put a pair of equal value resistors - one across each
series
> capacitor, as the leakage currents will not be equal in each capacitor in
> each series string and the DC voltage won't divide equally across each
> capacitor unless you put individual "bleeder" or "swamping" resistors
across
> each cap in the series pair to equalize the DC across each capacitor in
the
> series!  I'll be interested to see how it turns out! I never had a DX-100
> "Benton Harbor Kilowatt"!  I did  have a DX-40 for a while, but no 160 on
> that one, though! I do have an EF Johnson Navigator in pretty good
condition
> that needs to  have all of its electrolytics replaced because of their
age.
> I does have 160 (and 11 meters also!).
>
> Good luck and Merry Christmas!
>
> 73,
> Charlie, K4OTV
>
>
Hi Charlie,

In the DX-100 there is already a big honking pair of bleeder resistors 
so that the bleeder is divided with one half across each half of the 
series pair. I think that's what you meant. The DX-100 originally had 
two caps rated at 450 volts in series and the bleeder set up that way.

73,

Bill  KU8H
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: DX-100 adventure - progress

[Charlie Cunningham]

BTW, Biii - tip/suggestion  - for those series-connected electrolytics you
probably should put a pair of equal value resistors - one across each series
capacitor, as the leakage currents will not be equal in each capacitor in
each series string and the DC voltage won't divide equally across each
capacitor unless you put individual "bleeder" or "swamping" resistors across
each cap in the series pair to equalize the DC across each capacitor in the
series!  I'll be interested to see how it turns out! I never had a DX-100
"Benton Harbor Kilowatt"!  I did  have a DX-40 for a while, but no 160 on
that one, though! I do have an EF Johnson Navigator in pretty good condition
that needs to  have all of its electrolytics replaced because of their age.
I does have 160 (and 11 meters also!).

Good luck and Merry Christmas!

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Cromwell
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 10:27 PM
To: 'top Band'
Subject: Topband: DX-100 adventure - progress

Hi,

Recently I posted about my DX-100 and an effort to get it usable in time 
for the Stew Perry. I have made progress and it looks like I'll have it 
ready to use in time and never mind about the holidays, the holiday mail 
overload, etc.

I successfully recapped and tested the "low voltage" supply and changed 
the circuit to choke input. I like doing that and some other hams 
suggested doing it, too. So I did. The VFO and RF stages - excluding the 
finals - sound very good on 160 through 40 meters. No chirp shows up at 
all until I get to 20 meters and there is barely enough chirp to notice 
if I pay attention. 15 meters and, finally, 10 meters there is 
noticeable chirp and some drift. I didn't really let it warm up well 
before I tried those higher bands. I was more interested in the 160 
meter operation since that is the immediate goal.

I had to order new caps for the high voltage final amp plate supply. I 
thought I had suitable caps but mine would have given me only 50 uF with 
a pair in series. That is NOT enough. I am afraid the new caps will not 
arrive with enough bench time left to make it for the Stew. So I doubled 
down on the caps I already have. I built two banks of caps with two caps 
each. Each set is a series pair of course and the two sets of caps are 
in parallel to give the needed 100 uF at 900 volt rating. The center 
connections of the two banks are also connected in parallel so that the 
bleeder sees them as *ONE* pair of caps in series. The thing is built on 
a pair of terminal strips with reinforced connection points to 
accommodate the bleeder and switch wiring that was already in the 
transmitter. I have it completely fabricated AND mounted in the DX-100. 
This weekend I'll get to wire it and test it. Hopefully it will be ready 
to operate. I'll be cleaning up some other messy wiring that previous 
owners left in there and then put all the screws back in place. A little 
DeOxit on a few more controls and then the smoke test.

And then... CQ de KU8H.

If the caps don't work out for some reason I can hope the new ones 
arrive in time. I started taking pictures so maybe I'll finally do some 
on-line show n tell when I'm done.

73,

Bill  KU8H  aka  Santa Claus
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: 2 Top Band Christmas Gifts

[Charlie Cunningham]

Been there - done that - without snowshoes, however, down here in North
Carolina!

Merry Christmas!

Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim F.
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 12:32 PM
To: top Band
Subject: Topband: 2 Top Band Christmas Gifts

Two special gifts this Christmas :

1. 9 year old g'son Elliot helped with my tree and colored lights.
    (and made sure all my umbrellas were working correctly  :-)
2. Rick, next door removed the blinker from his Christmas lights.

Last year I had to wait for "lights out" before hearing anything 
on 160m because of intense pulsing noise from Rick's blinker.  
The lights turned off (he went to bed?) and the noise stopped.

This year Rick is on the condo board and must have read the 
condo regs. about No Blinking Lights !!   -  Yahoo ! ! 
 -

With wires and coax running  from my deck and through 
the common condo area woods I will not complain or do anything 
to bring notice to my radio activity. 
(The one exception being on snowshoes in the middle of winter 
 casting into the trees with a fishing pole. )

73,

Jim / W1FMR
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: FW: Insulator problems- Notr og caution

[Charlie Cunningham]

-Original Message-
From: Charlie Cunningham [mailto:charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com] 
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 4:32 PM
To: 'Tom W8JI'; 'Topband Reflector'
Subject: RE: Topband: Insulator problems- Notr og caution

All good points.

We have used gray UV-stabilized poly carbonate to mold covers for
electricity watt-hour meters that had some rather stringent requirements fr
with standing ambient sunlight.

The problems that I encountered with black plastic that was blackened with
carbon-black, the cheapest and most readily available material for
blackening plastic, was in portable and water-meter pit devices whose
transceivers operated io the 902-928 MHz ISM band, The black plastic,
containing carbon-black would totally destroy the tuning and radiation
efficiency of embedded antennas. There are other dyes and materials that can
be used to blacken plastic, but one has to take care to specify the
materials and or the electromagnetic properties of the plastic that is used!
It's not so much an insulating problem, rather it has to do with the
absorptive properties o ftne material at VHF and UHF. Not so sure about HF.
But I've made lots of end and center insulators for antennas from
polycarbonate sheet stock!

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom W8JI
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 4:09 PM
To: 'Topband Reflector'
Subject: Re: Topband: Insulator problems- Notr og caution

I don't want to belabor this, because I think Greg was going to try Delrin,
but Delrin homopolymer is slightly different than other acetal resin
copolymers. They are similar, but not exactly the same.

1.) Black does not always mean poor insulating ability. It will be fine at
HF

2.) Black also does not necessarily mean better UV resistance. It generally
helps, but many white materials are good. I have white tower ropes that
outlast black rope. It really depends a great deal on the UV inhibitors and
the material. Most white nylon ropes contain UV inhibitors, for example.

If he wants to get a special grade of Delrin, 527 UV would be most UV
resistant. The little bit of carbon pigment won't hurt a thing at HF.

Greg is in New Zealand, so he will probably have to buy what is available. 
Since nylon lasted a few years, the material doesn't have a high bar to
jump.

73 Tom 

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Insulator problems- Notr og caution

[Charlie Cunningham]

All good points.

We have used gray UV-stabilized poly carbonate to mold covers for
electricity watt-hour meters that had some rather stringent requirements fr
with standing ambient sunlight.

The problems that I encountered with black plastic that was blackened with
carbon-black, the cheapest and most readily available material for
blackening plastic, was in portable and water-meter pit devices whose
transceivers operated io the 902-928 MHz ISM band, The black plastic,
containing carbon-black would totally destroy the tuning and radiation
efficiency of embedded antennas. There are other dyes and materials that can
be used to blacken plastic, but one has to take care to specify the
materials and or the electromagnetic properties of the plastic that is used!
It's not so much an insulating problem, rather it has to do with the
absorptive properties o ftne material at VHF and UHF. Not so sure about HF.
But I've made lots of end and center insulators for antennas from
polycarbonate sheet stock!

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom W8JI
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 4:09 PM
To: 'Topband Reflector'
Subject: Re: Topband: Insulator problems- Notr og caution

I don't want to belabor this, because I think Greg was going to try Delrin, 
but Delrin homopolymer is slightly different than other acetal resin 
copolymers. They are similar, but not exactly the same.

1.) Black does not always mean poor insulating ability. It will be fine at 
HF

2.) Black also does not necessarily mean better UV resistance. It generally 
helps, but many white materials are good. I have white tower ropes that 
outlast black rope. It really depends a great deal on the UV inhibitors and 
the material. Most white nylon ropes contain UV inhibitors, for example.

If he wants to get a special grade of Delrin, 527 UV would be most UV 
resistant. The little bit of carbon pigment won't hurt a thing at HF.

Greg is in New Zealand, so he will probably have to buy what is available. 
Since nylon lasted a few years, the material doesn't have a high bar to 
jump.

73 Tom 

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Insulator problems- Notr og caution

[Charlie Cunningham]

Many black plastics are "blackened" by the addition of "carbon black" that
can make them rather lossy at RF!  "Been there, done that" in my work - at
900 MHz.

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Wichers
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 2:06 PM
To: Greg - ZL3IX; Topband Reflector
Subject: Re: Topband: Insulator problems

Delrin is a trademark for acetal. Acetal is the generic name so you'll have
a lot better time finding acetal most likely.

My recommendation is to get the *black* acetal as it will hold up much
better in UV outdoors. It machines easily, but it's a lot harder (and
stronger) than nylon. Acetal can be comparable to some mild metals in terms
of strength so it's great for bearings and clamps where you need a
non-conductive material.

Also, someone mentioned using polycarbonate (lexan). There's been a lot of
interest in that material since QST ran an article about it a while ago but
it's not always the best material to use for everything, and it's not the
only machinable plastic. If you do use it outdoors you should try to find a
UV-stabilized variant. For most other plastics just try to get them in black
since the black pigment commonly used will also generally provide improved
UV resistance to the material. 

My personal recommendation for most outdoor insulators that will be
subjected to any amount of mechanical stress/strain is to use black acetal.
It's readily available in sheet and rod stock, and the rod is a good
starting point for most insulators. You can find small pieces on ebay or you
can get it from most commercial plastic supply houses.

Teflon, BTW, is probably not a good choice since it is not very durable
mechanically.

  -Bill


> -Original Message-
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of
> Greg - ZL3IX
> Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 12:10 PM
> To: Topband Reflector
> Subject: Re: Topband: Insulator problems
> 
> Many thanks to everyone who commented on the above.  The consensus is
> that nylon is a particularly bad choice of insulator for high field
environments,
> even on Topband.  Tomorrow I will be looking for an alternative that is
> available here in ZL.  I think Delrin will be the choice, if available.
> 
> 73, Greg ZL3IX
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Insulator problems

[Charlie Cunningham]

You might consider polycarbonate. (GE calls it "Lexan")

It's very strong both mechanically and electrically, and it's machinable.

73,
Charlie, K4OTV


-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim GM
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 10:58 AM
To: topband
Subject: Re: Topband: Insulator problems

Not sure what your replacing if it is a round insulator piece for 2 pipes
or stand off type insulator for matching section or what?

Try fiberglass rod material or Teflon blocks depends on application.
 Teflon blocks were used on heavy industrial equipment when shipped so the
equipment can be slide over the floor.

Bird poop will short things out no matter what you use!!



-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: topband: ISON's last days

[Charlie Cunningham]

I noted that, too Bruce and wondered if that could be the "bow-shock" of the
comet interacting with the solar wind?

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2013 11:57 PM
To: g...@ka1j.com; Topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: topband: ISON's last days

Sounds correct Gary.  As the comet approaches the sun, there seems to be
something going off the front at right angles to the direction of travel.
Anyway if oxygen starved, with the extreme temperature, could it cause
something like a small backdraft ?  a firefighters term.
Low band DX is very much controlled by our sun.

73
Bruce-K1FZ
www.qsl.net/k1fz/beveragenotes.html


- Original Message -
From: "Gary Smith" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2013 11:10 PM
Subject: Re: Topband: topband: ISON's last days


> Just a guess but from what I remember from far too many years of
> college in a mostly unrelated subject; I'd be surprised if there's
> any oxygen in there at all, I'd think the gist of the sun is just
> plasma with Hydrogen & Helium being the food source.
>
> I am just guessing here...
>
> Gary
> KA1J
>
>> I started wondering if the break down of  Ison's water into Hydrogen
>> and
>> oxygen had prompted the increased sun activity. Maybe the amount is
>> too
>> small, but just how much oxygen does the sun have?
>>
>> 73
>> Bruce-K1FZ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Steve" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2013 9:05 PM
>> Subject: Re: Topband: ISON's last days
>>
>>
>> >> Interesting NASA video - Ison rounds the sun in slow motion, then
>> >> presented in fast motion.
>> >>
>> >>
>> http://science.nasa.gov/media/medialibrary/2013/12/02/ison_anim.gif
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > It almost looks like that ill-timed CME blast might have done it
>> in?
>> >
>> >
>> > WEB - "The VE7SL Radio Notebook":  http://members.shaw.ca/ve7sl
>> > _
>> > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>> >
>>
>> _
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus 
> protection is active.
> http://www.avast.com
>
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> 

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: DXCC Desk?

[Charlie Cunningham]

Well, I'd be in favor of that, Joe! Even though I have it confirmed, I've
always regarded "Scaffold Reef" to be an absolute farce!

73,
Charlie, K4OTV





-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Joe
Subich, W4TV
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 7:47 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: DXCC Desk?


Unfortunately "BS Reef" is one of those pre-1998 "countries" that
continue on the list in spite of not meeting current criteria.  On
the other hand, I would not object to simply deleting any entity
that did not meet the current standards.

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV


On 11/18/2013 4:57 PM, Charlie Cunningham wrote:
> Well, I will be pleased and my faith in DXCC will be restored when they
> delete the farce of "Scaffold Reef" - "B.S.- seven- hotel"!. As far as I'm
> concerned, I f you can't sleep on it and prepare meals on it - it ain't a
> "country"! I by  any stretch of the imagination! ( I did work BS7H and
have
> it confirmed, but it's not a "country"!)
>
> 73,
> Charlie, K4OTV
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Joe
> Subich, W4TV
> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 3:56 PM
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: DXCC Desk?
>
>
> Herb,
>
> Get your "facts" straight ... the issues you raise happened in the main
> more than 20 years ago.  The latest DXCC rules revision "DXCC 2000" has
> greatly simplified (and removed the subjectivity) from the entities
> criteria (although there are those who can't read a map properly and
> screw up the separation between Saba and Bonaire).
>
> The current criteria are quite simple and transparent - leaving very
> little "interpretation" as to what qualifies as a "political entity",
> or "Geographic Separation Entity".  There is simply no opportunity for
> the backroom politics under the current rules.  In that regard the
> issues about which you are kvetching have been resolved for 15 years.
>
> 73,
>
>  ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 11/18/2013 3:33 PM, Herb Schoenbohm wrote:
>> Gents... Amateur radio is supposed to be devoid of politics as much as
>> possible. but the more you dig the worse it gets.  I once attended an
>> IARU Region II meeting in Jamaica and was amazed by all the wheeling and
>> dealing going on with DXCC accreditation at the core. That was nearly 50
>> years ago and it seems not much has changed.  I had even heard that the
>> ops at 706T where banned from working any 4X4's but the sharp ops with a
>> wink and a nod just logged VX4*** rather than mentioning anything on the
>> air. Would the ARRL "DXCC Desk" discredit a single 4X4 in need of this
>> one?  I sort of doubt it. At times there are bona fide reasons to make
>> exception.  Also the creation of private DX preserves by the ARRL for
>> certain Radio Societies is legend. In fact KP5 (Desecheo) should never
>> have been granted DXCC status when Mona Island which permits visitors
>> was refused.  Additionally Water Island, which KP2A fought for for
>> years, was clearly not part of the USVI and until recently administered
>> solely by the U.S. Department of interior.  But so the story goes that
>> hams in Puerto Rico had decided to join the IARU as a distinct and
>> unique entity apart from the U.S. and the creation of a private DXCC
>> location was the price the ARRL paid to halt those plans.  The DXCC
>> rules have been anything but consistant and have been bent and twisted
>> like a heavily gerrymander congressional district to purposely include
>> or exclude  voters of certain just to satisfy some.
>>
>>
>> Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/18/2013 3:47 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>>>
>>> Len,
>>>
>>>> Why, you might ask after all this suffering, is that this nation
>>>> still is not recognazid as a separate entity to this very small
>>>> world  of the global assembly that Ham radio really is?
>>>
>>> Ask the Serbs and Russians why they blocked Kosovar membership in the
>>> UN and prevented ITU from assigning a callsign block, dialing prefix
>>> and internet TLD?  If the Serbs and Russians recognize the Palestine
>>> they could certainly allow Kosovo similar international privileges.
>>>
>>> Kosovo is recognized by the US as an "independent state" (see:
>>> http://www.state.gov/s/inr/rls/4250.htm) and like the EU the US
>>> maintains diplomatic relations with Kosovo.  Unfortunately, the
>>> DXCC Rules (see: http://www.arrl.org/files/file/DXCC/DXCC%20Rules.pdf)
>>> do not include the US DOS "Independent States in the World" listing as
>>> a qualifying option for a "Political (Rule 1) Entity".
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _
>> Topband Reflector
>>
> _
> Topband Reflector
>
> _
> Topband Reflector
>
_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: DXCC Desk?

[Charlie Cunningham]

Well, maybe so, Ted. But I'd be really impressed if Martti would mount a
major expedition to North Korea!

73,,
Charlie, K4OTV


-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of
k2...@juno.com
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 5:05 PM
To: charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com
Cc: li...@subich.com; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: DXCC Desk?

Hi Charlie,

There are a lot of "entities" that we, as hams, count as countries for DXCC
credit!

It makes going for the award all that much more fun!!

73,
Ted  K2QMF


On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 16:57:03 -0500 "Charlie Cunningham"
 writes:
> Well, I will be pleased and my faith in DXCC will be restored when 
> they delete the farce of "Scaffold Reef" - "B.S.- seven- hotel"!. As 
> far as I'm concerned, I f you can't sleep on it and prepare meals on 
> it - it ain't a "country"! I by  any stretch of the imagination! ( I 
> did work BS7H and have it confirmed, but it's not a "country"!)
> 
> 73,
> Charlie, K4OTV
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Joe 
> Subich, W4TV
> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 3:56 PM
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: DXCC Desk?
> 
> 
> Herb,
> 
> Get your "facts" straight ... the issues you raise happened in the 
> main more than 20 years ago.  The latest DXCC rules revision "DXCC 
> 2000"
> has
> greatly simplified (and removed the subjectivity) from the entities 
> criteria (although there are those who can't read a map properly and 
> screw up the separation between Saba and Bonaire).
> 
> The current criteria are quite simple and transparent - leaving very 
> little "interpretation" as to what qualifies as a "political entity", 
> or "Geographic Separation Entity".  There is simply no opportunity for 
> the backroom politics under the current rules.  In that regard the 
> issues about which you are kvetching have been resolved for 15 years.
> 
> 73,
> 
> ... Joe, W4TV
> 
> 
> On 11/18/2013 3:33 PM, Herb Schoenbohm wrote:
> > Gents... Amateur radio is supposed to be devoid of politics as
> much as
> > possible. but the more you dig the worse it gets.  I once attended
> an
> > IARU Region II meeting in Jamaica and was amazed by all the
> wheeling and
> > dealing going on with DXCC accreditation at the core. That was
> nearly 50
> > years ago and it seems not much has changed.  I had even heard
> that the
> > ops at 706T where banned from working any 4X4's but the sharp ops
> with a
> > wink and a nod just logged VX4*** rather than mentioning anything
> on the
> > air. Would the ARRL "DXCC Desk" discredit a single 4X4 in need of
> this
> > one?  I sort of doubt it. At times there are bona fide reasons to
> make
> > exception.  Also the creation of private DX preserves by the ARRL
> for
> > certain Radio Societies is legend. In fact KP5 (Desecheo) should
> never
> > have been granted DXCC status when Mona Island which permits
> visitors
> > was refused.  Additionally Water Island, which KP2A fought for
> for
> > years, was clearly not part of the USVI and until recently
> administered
> > solely by the U.S. Department of interior.  But so the story goes
> that
> > hams in Puerto Rico had decided to join the IARU as a distinct
> and
> > unique entity apart from the U.S. and the creation of a private
> DXCC
> > location was the price the ARRL paid to halt those plans.  The
> DXCC
> > rules have been anything but consistant and have been bent and
> twisted
> > like a heavily gerrymander congressional district to purposely
> include
> > or exclude  voters of certain just to satisfy some.
> >
> >
> > Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 11/18/2013 3:47 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
> >>
> >> Len,
> >>
> >>> Why, you might ask after all this suffering, is that this
> nation
> >>> still is not recognazid as a separate entity to this very small 
> >>> world  of the global assembly that Ham radio really is?
> >>
> >> Ask the Serbs and Russians why they blocked Kosovar membership in
> the
> >> UN and prevented ITU from assigning a callsign block, dialing
> prefix
> >> and internet TLD?  If the Serbs and Russians recognize the
> Palestine
> >> they could certainly allow Kosovo similar international
> privileges.
> >>
> >> Kosovo is recognized by the US as an "i

Re: Topband: DXCC Desk?

[Charlie Cunningham]

Well, I will be pleased and my faith in DXCC will be restored when they
delete the farce of "Scaffold Reef" - "B.S.- seven- hotel"!. As far as I'm
concerned, I f you can't sleep on it and prepare meals on it - it ain't a
"country"! I by  any stretch of the imagination! ( I did work BS7H and have
it confirmed, but it's not a "country"!)

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Joe
Subich, W4TV
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 3:56 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: DXCC Desk?


Herb,

Get your "facts" straight ... the issues you raise happened in the main
more than 20 years ago.  The latest DXCC rules revision "DXCC 2000" has
greatly simplified (and removed the subjectivity) from the entities
criteria (although there are those who can't read a map properly and
screw up the separation between Saba and Bonaire).

The current criteria are quite simple and transparent - leaving very
little "interpretation" as to what qualifies as a "political entity",
or "Geographic Separation Entity".  There is simply no opportunity for
the backroom politics under the current rules.  In that regard the
issues about which you are kvetching have been resolved for 15 years.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 11/18/2013 3:33 PM, Herb Schoenbohm wrote:
> Gents... Amateur radio is supposed to be devoid of politics as much as
> possible. but the more you dig the worse it gets.  I once attended an
> IARU Region II meeting in Jamaica and was amazed by all the wheeling and
> dealing going on with DXCC accreditation at the core. That was nearly 50
> years ago and it seems not much has changed.  I had even heard that the
> ops at 706T where banned from working any 4X4's but the sharp ops with a
> wink and a nod just logged VX4*** rather than mentioning anything on the
> air. Would the ARRL "DXCC Desk" discredit a single 4X4 in need of this
> one?  I sort of doubt it. At times there are bona fide reasons to make
> exception.  Also the creation of private DX preserves by the ARRL for
> certain Radio Societies is legend. In fact KP5 (Desecheo) should never
> have been granted DXCC status when Mona Island which permits visitors
> was refused.  Additionally Water Island, which KP2A fought for for
> years, was clearly not part of the USVI and until recently administered
> solely by the U.S. Department of interior.  But so the story goes that
> hams in Puerto Rico had decided to join the IARU as a distinct and
> unique entity apart from the U.S. and the creation of a private DXCC
> location was the price the ARRL paid to halt those plans.  The DXCC
> rules have been anything but consistant and have been bent and twisted
> like a heavily gerrymander congressional district to purposely include
> or exclude  voters of certain just to satisfy some.
>
>
> Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 11/18/2013 3:47 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>>
>> Len,
>>
>>> Why, you might ask after all this suffering, is that this nation
>>> still is not recognazid as a separate entity to this very small
>>> world  of the global assembly that Ham radio really is?
>>
>> Ask the Serbs and Russians why they blocked Kosovar membership in the
>> UN and prevented ITU from assigning a callsign block, dialing prefix
>> and internet TLD?  If the Serbs and Russians recognize the Palestine
>> they could certainly allow Kosovo similar international privileges.
>>
>> Kosovo is recognized by the US as an "independent state" (see:
>> http://www.state.gov/s/inr/rls/4250.htm) and like the EU the US
>> maintains diplomatic relations with Kosovo.  Unfortunately, the
>> DXCC Rules (see: http://www.arrl.org/files/file/DXCC/DXCC%20Rules.pdf)
>> do not include the US DOS "Independent States in the World" listing as
>> a qualifying option for a "Political (Rule 1) Entity".
>>
>> 73,
>>
>>... Joe, W4TV
>>
>>
>
> _
> Topband Reflector
>
_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Wanted - Hardline connectors

[Charlie Cunningham]

Yeah - and squirrels are "tree rats"!

Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim GM
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 12:23 PM
To: topband
Subject: Re: Topband: Wanted - Hardline connectors

City has a rat infestation.  Digging all kinds of holes under peoples
wooden decks.  They did some construction work in the street and drove them
out.  They never addresses the problem before it happened.

They at through Time Warners under ground main feed for 400 homes, node
line, they have to replace a 300 foot section in the same spot every 6
months. Galvanized pipe  schedule 40 or better yet 80 pipe with cable
inside should slow the varmints down for a while.

-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Coax rodent protection

[Charlie Cunningham]

A .22 with 'scope mounted on it works pretty well on squirrels. The scope
helps a lot if you're old like me, and have gotten to be too farsighted to
get a decent sight-picture with iron sights.

Lots of folks don't appreciate how destructive those little "tree rats" can
be!

Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Garry
Shapiro
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 10:02 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Coax rodent protection

My squirrels were gnawing the top rail of my redwood deck and where they 
urinated it bleached the wood. I chose a more final solution--an 
efficient killer trap from Forest Supply, ordered on the internet. 1 jar 
of cheap peanut butter will provide bait for probably 100 squirrels. 
Those (#($((%) squirrels  --eastern Grays, which are an invasive species 
here in CA--are very aggressive and push out the native squirrels,

After 20 years of no problems, they chewed up my rotator loops on my 
treetop array, which eventually caused me to replace everything, at 
enormous cost. I have no empathy or sympathy for them.

The deer mostly break my Beverages.

Garry, NI6T

On 11/12/2013 6:13 PM, Gary Smith wrote:
> My primary vermin are deer and the YL had issues with squirrels
> digging up her plants on the deck. She helps out at a Nursery and
> they sell fox & Coyote urine. A little vial of the stuff lasts a long
> time and one tube of the Fox version & the squirrels vacated the
> deck. Made her happy so I bought the Coyote & put a couple vials
> around the HI-Z triangle & another around my remote coax switch
> box/radial plate & antenna jumpers. So far no issues and I haven't
> seen any of those !@#$ deer in the back yard since I started doing
> this.
>
> They sell Fox, Coyote, Wolf & Mountain Lion.
>
> http://www.legupenterprises.com/
>
> Gary
> KA1J
>
> ---
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
protection is active.
> http://www.avast.com
>
> _
> Topband Reflector
>

_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Local noise source identification

[Charlie Cunningham]

Good luck, Rick! I expect that it will require a good bit of "sleuthing" to
find the source(s) - but then, eliminating the source is another matter
entirely, if it's coming from a neighbor!

73,
Charlie, K4OTV


-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Rick
ve3mm
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 10:48 AM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Local noise source identification

Thanks for all  who responded with comments and suggestions in reply to my
query.  I will take them all into consideration during my quest to
eliminate the source of my noise.  I will also let you know the results.

73

Rick ve3mm


On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 3:01 AM, Max Cotton  wrote:

> Check out UKQRM on google, plenty of information there including
> soundbytes.
> 73 Max
> M0GHQ
> _
> Topband Reflector
>
_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW

[Charlie Cunningham]

Amen!!

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom W8JI
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 10:33 PM
To: Rick; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW

What a stupid frequency for a test beacon of any type!


- Original Message - 
From: "Rick" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 4:57 PM
Subject: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW


> Good evening all,
> 
> Hate to burst the theories, but it appears the "carrier" on 3501.6 MHz 
> is a QRSS beacon operated by W4HBK.
> 
> I used Spectrum Lab and selected the 1-second dit in the "Quick 
> Settings" tab, Slow Morse Reception (QRSS) menu selection. The carrier 
> drops about 6 Hz from the "space" to the "mark" and decode with the eye. 
> Inter-character spacing is a dit, intra character spacing is a dah  
> both are on the "space", or higher tone. Idle period is also the "space" 
> tone.
> 
> I dropped W4HBK an e-mail to get further information on this beacon ... 
> he is also operating a QRSS beacon on 30 meters. His reply was:
> 
> "Hi, Rick.  Tnx for the report.  I am using  an eight second dot period 
> and transmitting on a frequency of 3500.8 with a frequency shift of 5 
> Hz.  You can see details of my mept at my blog: 
> http://pensacolasnapper.blogspot.com/2011/07/my-new-dds-mept.html
> 
> It is built around the DDS VFO kit sold by N3ZI and amplifier kit from 
> W8DIZ.  Power is 1 W to a 43 foot vertical."
> 
> 73 bill w4hbk
> 
> 
> Oh, his QTH is Gulf Breeze FL, near Pensacola.
> 
> "And now, back to our regularly scheduled program."
> 
> 73
> Rick
> NM3G
> _
> Topband Reflector
> 
> 
> -
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3614/6767 - Release Date: 10/20/13
>
_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Local noise source identification

[Charlie Cunningham]

The switching frequency of switching power supplies can vary with the burden
on the supply as well as ambient temperature. If it's sensitive to outdoor
temperature could be the electric utility meters - most of those contain
switching power supplies these days, and the meter's internal temperature
tracks up and down with ambient temperature. Other candidates would be
electric utility load control equipment, control electronics in heat-pumps
etc., and electronics associated with satellite receivers.

Good luck!

Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of N1BUG
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2013 6:29 PM
To: Rick ve3mm
Cc: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Local noise source identification

I realize this won't help but I have a similar noise. Mine is about
24 kHz wide and drifts up/down considerably more than yours. The drift seems
related to outside temperature. Here's the real kicker: 
it goes away every year immediately upon the coming of snow cover, but does
not return until mid-summer sometime. This has been happening for at least
five years now. I've tracked it to a group of
4 or 5 houses on the other side of a river, about 1000 feet from (some of)
my Beverages.

Sidebar: With a portable receiver I can also detect it re-radiating from my
100 foot vertical, which is 1500 feet from the source.

Good luck, and let us know if you find it.

73,
Paul N1BUG


On 11/09/2013 05:15 PM, Rick ve3mm wrote:
> I am looking for suggestions to help identify a local noise that I am 
> experiencing on topband.
>
> It's characteristics are;
> - bandwidth approximately 15 kHz
> - amplitude relatively constant
> - centre frequency seems to vary in small steps over time, no real
pattern.
> - right now the centre frequency is 1819 kHz, it moves up and down up 
> to 7 or 8 kHz.
> - does not seem to be present during the day. At least not this afternoon.
>
> I shut down all of the circuits in my house other than my shack and it 
> did not disappear.
>
> Has anyone experienced something similar?
>
> 73
>
> Rick ve3mm
_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Local noise source identification

[Charlie Cunningham]

Some of the line-conducted emissions can radiate from the power distribution
circuits - especially with overhead service

Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of N1BUG
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2013 6:29 PM
To: Rick ve3mm
Cc: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Local noise source identification

I realize this won't help but I have a similar noise. Mine is about 
24 kHz wide and drifts up/down considerably more than yours. The 
drift seems related to outside temperature. Here's the real kicker: 
it goes away every year immediately upon the coming of snow cover, 
but does not return until mid-summer sometime. This has been 
happening for at least five years now. I've tracked it to a group of 
4 or 5 houses on the other side of a river, about 1000 feet from 
(some of) my Beverages.

Sidebar: With a portable receiver I can also detect it re-radiating 
from my 100 foot vertical, which is 1500 feet from the source.

Good luck, and let us know if you find it.

73,
Paul N1BUG


On 11/09/2013 05:15 PM, Rick ve3mm wrote:
> I am looking for suggestions to help identify a local noise that I am
> experiencing on topband.
>
> It's characteristics are;
> - bandwidth approximately 15 kHz
> - amplitude relatively constant
> - centre frequency seems to vary in small steps over time, no real
pattern.
> - right now the centre frequency is 1819 kHz, it moves up and down up to 7
> or 8 kHz.
> - does not seem to be present during the day. At least not this afternoon.
>
> I shut down all of the circuits in my house other than my shack and it did
> not disappear.
>
> Has anyone experienced something similar?
>
> 73
>
> Rick ve3mm
_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Local noise source identification

[Charlie Cunningham]

Some switching power supplies are frequency-jittered to spread their
spectrum and enable their host devices to meet FCC or Industry Canada
line-conducted emissions limits. Also some of the newer lighting devices and
cicuits can produce RF!! Y ou might try  walking your neighborhood with a
portable receiver and see if you can "sniff" it out.  My bet is a switching
power suppl y, based on  your description. Good luck! 

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Cromwell
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2013 5:44 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Local noise source identification

On 11/09/2013 05:15 PM, Rick ve3mm wrote:
> I am looking for suggestions to help identify a local noise that I am 
> experiencing on topband.
>
> It's characteristics are;
> - bandwidth approximately 15 kHz
> - amplitude relatively constant
> - centre frequency seems to vary in small steps over time, no real
pattern.
> - right now the centre frequency is 1819 kHz, it moves up and down up 
> to 7 or 8 kHz.
> - does not seem to be present during the day. At least not this afternoon.
>
> I shut down all of the circuits in my house other than my shack and it 
> did not disappear.
>
> Has anyone experienced something similar?
>
> 73
>
> Rick ve3mm
> _
> Topband Reflector
>
Hi,

I live in a four season "resort and recreation area". Many of the
'neighbors' live far, far away and come here for short weekennds, long
weekends, holidays , and vacations. When the population goes way up, mostly
on the weekends, the intruding noises are almost sure to increase. Sometimes
they wipe out parts of several bands and may last the entire "vacataion'.
Often, all or some of the interfering junk quiets when the visitors go to
bed. I have been seeting up to operate on battery power during power
outages. It's amazing how quiet the bands get when *THAT* happens .

Short answer - yes - I have a signal just like that here. Probably a few
others too. Ain't it wondeful?

73,

Bill  KU8H
_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Vertical 2-element array?

[Charlie Cunningham]

I'd give it a try, Rick!  I think that you are likely to be surprised and
pleased with the results!  Yagis ( or 1/2 Yagis) just want to work and are
very forgiving of offset elements!

I've built 2 and 3 element 40 meter yagis in the past that were wonderful
performers - especially on the morning and evening long paths. I've also
added directors and reflectors around my parallel 40/30 meter vertical
dipoles with really good results. (Just wires hanging in trees supported by
fishing line! They worked well!)

I also built an 80m 5-element steerable array for 80m (driver and 4
parasites that coul be remotely switched between reflector and director
tuning with relays and stubs).  That one was a FEARSOME, "killer" DX
antenna!  One of my proudest accomplishments! The driver and parasites were
1/4 wave verticals  operated against elevated resonant radials - 4 for the
driver and 2 each for  the four parasites)

You could put up an 80m inverted L for 80m, tuned as a director, and
parallel it with a 40m 1/4 wave director and operate it against elevated
resonant radials for 80 and 40m.  You might need to play with it a bit in
EZNEC to "jiggle" the element lengths for best performance.

If you really want to "gild the lily", you can insert sorted stubs near the
feed-point of the vertical parasites to tune the parasite as reflectors, and
short the stubs with relays at the antenna elements to change to director
tuning to make the 1/2 yagi reversible!  - That's how I implemented the 80m
steerable array -  and it worked wonderfully well!!  The array was steered
with a switch box in the shack to control the relays.

The deceptive thing about modeling vertical parasitic arrays, is that,
because of the vertical polarization and the absence of "ground-reflection"
additive gain, the gains that you will see in EZNEC are not so impressive
compared with horizontal yagis. However, the on-the-air performance can be
really impressive - especially on long-haul paths because of the low takeoff
angle.

I don't think that you are likely to accomplish much on 160 if you are
limited to 10.5 m.

Good luck!  Have fun!!  ( I really like modeling, building andplaying with
high erformance antennas! :) )

73,
Charlie, K4OTV




-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Kiessig
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 9:45 PM
To: 'topband'
Subject: Topband: Vertical 2-element array?

I have a quarter-wave vertical for 40m on a steeply sloped lot, at about
100m AGL, 300m horizontally from the ocean. It currently has a relatively
poor radial field (more are in the works, of course); I use it entirely as a
multiband receive antenna, not for TX. A second fan-vertical element is
connected to the same feedpoint, configured as an inverted-L for 80m, which
I do use for TX, but rarely. It's resonant on both 40 and 80, and works on
160 at low power with an in-shack tuner.

 

Downhill, toward the ocean, is also the direction to EU and JA. On sloped
land like this, is a second vertical director-like element downhill, below
the first one likely to work (it would have to be limited to 10.5m height
above ground)? If so, would it buy me much? EZNEC suggests a slight
improvement is possible, but modelling this kind of system has been
problematic for me in the past, so I'm not confident of the results.

 

Are there other alternatives I should consider for increased gain on 40, 80
and/or 160? The horizontal space I have available above ground is very
limited, so things like an FCP or a K9AY loop are too big. I could make room
for a BOG or Beverage, but the longest run would be about 50m, and it's not
really in the right direction.

 

73, Rick ZL2HAM / ZM1G

 

_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW

[Charlie Cunningham]

Maybe they caught all the fish they could hold and headed to port to offload
their catch! :-)

K4OT V


-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Stealey
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 8:32 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW

They just went away.?

Now what the heck are we going to do for fun, operate the silly radios on
the quiet band?


K2XT
  
_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Nye Viking MB-V-A

[Charlie Cunningham]

A man after my own heart!! :-)

Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Herb
Schoenbohm
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2013 2:31 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Nye Viking MB-V-A

I had a similar problem with the flat loading capacitors plates burning 
a hole and failing on my Drake MN-2000 ATU and found some very nice low 
profile 200pf 10KV mica transmitting capacitors from Bulgaria on eBay 
for $6.00 each. There seems to be a good supply from the vendor as they 
are currently listed as:



  *


  *




 



  2 200 pF 10kV LOT OF 2 HIGH VOLTAGE CERAMIC DOORKNOB CAPACITORS KVI-3
  (???-3)



Shipping took only a week and the items fit inside the tuner easily. I 
used some tinned solder wick to make the connections to the switch as I 
did not have any tinned braid available.

Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ.






On 11/3/2013 2:16 PM, Charlie Young wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> I have an MB-V and an MB-IV.
>   
> The MB-IV experienced a fixed capacitor failure.  There is a stacked
capacitor bank that was fabricated by Nye
> using insulating sheet separated by metal plates.  One of the insulator
sheets broke down.
>   
> I repaired it myself by unbolting the stack, cleaning up the affected
capacitor plates, and replacing the insulator with a piece of teflon sheet
that one of my friends happened to have.
>   
> So far so good on the repair, but I don't need to use the tuners much
these days.
>   
> 73 Charlie N8RR
>   
>   
>> Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2013 13:33:10 -0400
>> From: he...@vitelcom.net
>> To: topband@contesting.com
>> Subject: Re: Topband: Nye Viking MB-V-A
>>
>> What is the model numberthere is not to much that can go wrong with
>> them.  You might check at the switches and coil for any bad contacts
>> which normally if not burned can be repaired with a pencil eraser or
>> some very light emery cloth.
>>
>>
>> Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/3/2013 11:07 AM, michael kincaid wrote:
>>> Got my Inverted L fixed now the tuner has a problem. Anyone around I
that
>>> works on these tuners?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> w7...@fast.net
>>>
>>> _
>>> Topband Reflector
>> _
>> Topband Reflector
>

> _
> Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: FW: Steady Carrier on 80 CW

[Charlie Cunningham]

Hi, Bill

Well, if it is a ham, he must have a pretty decent antenna - being heard
rather well all round NA and SA!

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Bill Cromwell [mailto:wrcromw...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:46 AM
To: Charlie Cunningham
Cc: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: FW: Steady Carrier on 80 CW

On 11/03/2013 08:29 AM, Charlie Cunningham wrote:
> Well, if it's a ham, he/she must have pretty rugged finals in that rig!!!
>
> Charlie, K4OTV
>
>

Hi Charlie,

The dittler was on air two or three days (IIRC). He turned it off...it 
didn't flame out. Some hams tune for maximum smoke and some are much 
more conservative.

73,

Bill  KU8H

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: FW: Steady Carrier on 80 CW

[Charlie Cunningham]

Thanks for confirming, JC. Well, that suggests that the source is onshore
somewhere here in the states - perhaps northern Florida or south Georgia?

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of JC N4IS
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:38 AM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: FW: Steady Carrier on 80 CW

I just checked 3501.6 and I have no copy or trace during daytime. I'm
confirming the 350 degree direction from Ft Lauderdale 

JC
73's N4IS

_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: FW: Steady Carrier on 80 CW

[Charlie Cunningham]

Well, if it's a ham, he/she must have pretty rugged finals in that rig!!!

Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Cromwell
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:18 AM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: FW: Steady Carrier on 80 CW

I'm in north central Michigan at Houghton Lake - EN74oh. I have no 
directional antennas and only modestly helpful data. The band seems 
quiet this morning and I have a barely audible signal (1300Z). Daylight. 
Last night (0300-0400Z) it was bringing my S-meter up over S5 (whatever 
that means) and the R-599 is really oversensitive. I would normally have 
some attenuation cranked in on 80 meters. Just one more point of confusion.

This reminds of a guy we called "the dittler" on one of the shorter 
bands. He had moved something up against the dit side of his paddles and 
set his transmitter in action. Two or three days later the locals DFed 
him down to his front door and the embarrassed guy turned it off.

73,

Bill  KU8H
_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW

[Charlie Cunningham]

That's good information, Jerry!

What we need, rather than relying on antenna patterns for direction, is
direct phase measurement between a pair of vertical elements - with a third
element (or a pair) to resolve F/B ambiguity) if well calibrated , such an
array can be quite good for direction-finding measurements -but a good bit
of engineering is required to do the phase measurement. I worked on an array
like that for VHF marine radio years ago - worked quite well -mounted on
boats and Coast Guard cutters.  Then what we would need to pin down the
origin would be at least 2-3 of such arrays at more or less right angles to
the source for good triangulation. When I'm not so busy, perhaps I can do
some design work on the phase measurement. Best approach is a system that
commutates digitally between the antennas to compare phase.

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of K4SAV
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 10:53 AM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW

I think I can do a little better on estimating the direction (better than SE
which I gave earlier).  I can get two 30 dB nulls out of my receiving
antenna by switching directions.  Those nulls appear at 145 and 133 degrees.
Pointed SW the signal is S9 this morning.  In the null at 133 degrees the
signal is S0 and not audiable.  The signal is considerably stronger at the
145 degree null.  So my best guess is 133 degrees from Decatur, Alabama
(north central Alabama).

Oh!  As I was typing this, at 1353 UTC the signal on 3501.6 abruptly
stopped.  It was still at S9 just before it stopped.  Then at 1355 UTC it
came back but with RTTY for about 15 or 20 seconds, and then back into its
continuous unmodulated carrier mode at S9.  The RTTY burst was too fast for
me to boot an RTTY decoder to see if I could copy anything.  I suspect this
is not an unintentional radiator.

There is very little QSB on this signal.  I was waiting to see if the signal
amplitude was going to go down after sunrise.  At 2 hours after sunrise it's
starting to show signs of QSB.  It went down to S4 but now its back up to
S8.  Now at 3 hours after sunrise it's S7 with QSB on my vertical, but only
about S1 on my low dipole.

A line of 133 degrees from my location goes thru Jacksonville, Fl and also
thru that long chain of islands, Nassau Bahamas, Turks and Caicos, and Haiti
and Dominican Republic.  Most of Cuba would hit my 145 degree null, but
Guantanamo is close enough to be a candidate (with a little measurement
error).

A measurement from Florida would be interesting.

Jerry, K4SAV



_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW

[Charlie Cunningham]

Well, most all the guys in New England see it peaking pretty much due south
- which suggests that the origin is off-shore in the Atlantic, rather than
on shore in the Carolinas. (Maybe from the "Bermuda Triangle"? :-))

How long have you had that Hi-Z 3-element  receive array, Paul?

Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Don Kirk
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 7:40 AM
To: p...@paulferguson.us
Cc: topband
Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW

Paul and Gang,

Based on Pauls heading and a few other headings that intersect Pauls
heading, it looks like the signal is originating from the lower half of NC,
or the NE part of SC that touches NC.

Hard to describe, but an area like Fayetteville NC to the North, Wilmington
NC to the South East, and Myrtle Beach SC to the South (maybe as far South
as Georgetown or Charleston SC if I stretch things a bit).  Still need a
few more data points, but the above describes the general area unless it is
out in the ocean.

Lots of headings that don't intersect Pauls heading which I had to ignore.

Don


On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 7:05 AM, Paul Ferguson  wrote:

> It peaks at 172 degrees from Raleigh, NC on a Hi-Z 3-element array (6
> directions).
>
> We need some directions from Florida stations.
>
> 73,
> Paul
> K5ESW
>
>
>
> _
> Topband Reflector
>
_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW -BTW

[Charlie Cunningham]

Hi, Don

Well, we can improve on that by using a solar determination of true North.
The way  that I do it for my antenna arrays is:

1.0  Use a weather site to determine local sunrise and sunset times for your
location on the day that you are going to make the determination.

2.0  Split the difference to determine the time for your local solar noon.

3.0  At the time of your local solar noon, a vertical shaft (determined by
plumb line or spirit level) will cast a shadow that points to true North.
(Best done on sunny day of course!)

73.
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Don Kirk
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 11:31 AM
To: Tom W8JI
Cc: topband
Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW -BTW

OK, while we are on the topic another very big factor to think about is
magnetic north vs. true north (I have tried to not bring this up in the
past).  I don't expect any response to this, but this has always been in
the back of my mind and wonder what headings are really being reported
(what is the reference, magnetic north or true north that each station is
using when he reports a heading).

15 to 20 degrees difference for those of you in the New England
states...  Same problem out in the Northwest US, but
opposite polarity 15 to 20 degrees.

Don (wd8dsb)


On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Tom W8JI  wrote:

> My resolution is not as good as some people here, either. But where
there's
>> a will, there's often a way.  :-)
>>
>
> Many of the headings are misleading. Having been through this before
> several times, much of the data is always grossly overstated.It is common
> to exaggerate ability to determine direction.
>
> It's almost impossible to obtain several degree direction accuracy without
> either a rotatable loop with GOOD common mode rejection (some popular loop
> antennas can have a ~20 degree or more skew between what are supposed to
be
> 180 degree apart nulls, because they have poor feed designs) or an
> interferometer of normal receiving antennas.
>
> An 8-circle array in a very clear location with proper hardware design and
> good element spacing can get within about 20 degrees.
>
> Single long Beverages in an array of 8 antennas maybe within 30-35
degrees.
>
> Broadside Beverages with wide spacing (~5/8th or wider) within about 20
> degrees.
>
> A three direction array only within about 60 degrees or so, if in a clear
> spot and properly constructed.
>
> An interferometer with a few wavelengths spacing within a few degrees.
>
> A calibrated rotatable small loop without common mode skewing and in the
> clear, which is actually a pretty rare case, can be within a few degrees.
>
> My eight direction 350 ft diameter 8 circle, located out in a field 1500
> feet or so from any re-radiators, can only resolve within +-22 degrees
with
> good reliability. When I use it as part of a calibrated interferometer
> against Beverage arrays spaced ~1000 feet away, I can resolve the
> directional difference between two signals 50 miles apart in New England.
>
> When you draw the lines, be sure to allow for resolution of the antennas,
> and not the absolute numbers.
> _
> Topband Reflector
>
_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: TEST on 1830

[Charlie Cunningham]

Smithfield, NC?

-Original Message-
From: Bill Stewart [mailto:cw...@embarqmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 12:46 PM
To: Charlie Cunningham
Cc: Top Band Reflector; Roger D Johnson
Subject: Re: Topband: TEST on 1830

Hi Charlie, I wasn't sure...subj. sorta sounded like
he might be testing.

I'm still hearing the 80m sigs here near Smithfield.
Much weaker now, but readable. No dir. antennas so
can't add to the thread..but interesting reading.
73 de Bill K4JYS

- Original Message -
From: "Charlie Cunningham" 
To: "Bill Stewart" , "Roger D Johnson" 

Cc: "Top Band Reflector" 
Sent: Friday, November 1, 2013 12:23:38 PM
Subject: RE: Topband: TEST on 1830

Don't think Roger was testing. I think he was reporting a signal he was
hearing from the south of ME.

Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Stewart
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 12:16 PM
To: Roger D Johnson
Cc: Top Band Reflector
Subject: Re: Topband: TEST on 1830

Roger, if you are testing you might
use the reverse beacon network.
Make several CW CQ calls and maybe a 
'skimmer' will hear you...neat hi
tech way to see if one is getting out..
gives sig. strength rprt too.
73 de Bill K4JYS

- Original Message -
From: "Roger D Johnson" 
To: "Top Band Reflector" 
Sent: Friday, November 1, 2013 11:16:19 AM
Subject: Topband: TEST on 1830

Anyone else hearing this? It's south from Maine.

73, Roger

-- 
Remember the Liberty (AGTR-5)
http://www.usslibertyveterans.org/
http://www.gtr5.com/

_
Topband Reflector
_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: TEST on 1830

[Charlie Cunningham]

Don't think Roger was testing. I think he was reporting a signal he was
hearing from the south of ME.

Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Stewart
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 12:16 PM
To: Roger D Johnson
Cc: Top Band Reflector
Subject: Re: Topband: TEST on 1830

Roger, if you are testing you might
use the reverse beacon network.
Make several CW CQ calls and maybe a 
'skimmer' will hear you...neat hi
tech way to see if one is getting out..
gives sig. strength rprt too.
73 de Bill K4JYS

- Original Message -
From: "Roger D Johnson" 
To: "Top Band Reflector" 
Sent: Friday, November 1, 2013 11:16:19 AM
Subject: Topband: TEST on 1830

Anyone else hearing this? It's south from Maine.

73, Roger

-- 
Remember the Liberty (AGTR-5)
http://www.usslibertyveterans.org/
http://www.gtr5.com/

_
Topband Reflector
_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW

[Charlie Cunningham]

Thanks, Gary and Mike

Well, with my small lot, about all I can do is be envious!! :-)

73, 
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Smith
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 10:05 AM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW

Charlie, mine's nowhere as good as the 8 element array they offer and 
others here have far better antennae than I. This offending signal is 
just stronger from my south and the HI-Z antennas do work as 
advertised. I'm someday going to get their 8 element array. 
Unfortunately I can't add to my existing phasing or controller for 
the 3 element so it'll be a whole new purchase. There's a Yamaha 
FJR1300 in-between now & then... :)

73,
Gary
KA1J

> Thanks for the information, Gary! I'm impressed with and envious of
> your
> directional resolution capability!
> 
> 73,
> Charlie, K4OTV
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of
> Gary
> Smith
> Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 5:35 AM
> To: Topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
> 
> I'm using a HI-Z triangular array. Both of these signals are nulled
> significantly due north and are loudest due south not quite as loud
> SW & SE from here.
> 
> 
> > BTW, Gary - how are you measuring direction on 80m?
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf
> Of
> > Gary
> > Smith
> > Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 1:18 AM
> > To: Topband@contesting.com
> > Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
> > 
> > 3.503.1 due south from SE CT.
> > 3.501.6 due south from SE CT
> > 
> > 73,
> > 
> > Gary
> > KA1J
> >  
> > > There appears to be a second carrier coming from the same
> > direction
> > > on
> > > 3503.1. It is not as strong as the one on 3501.4. So whatever
> is
> > > going on -
> > > two steady carriers are on the low end of 80 CW. 
> > > 
> > > 73,
> > > Tim K3LR
> > > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On
> Behalf
> > Of
> > > Tim Duffy
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 10:45 PM
> > > To: topband@contesting.com
> > > Subject: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
> > > 
> > > I know this is the TopBand reflector - but there has been a
> > carrier
> > > on
> > > 3501.4 for the past few days - that needs some DF work.
> > >  
> > > It peaks at 150 degrees from K3LR so South South East. It is
> S9
> > this
> > > evening
> > > 
> > > Any ideas on what it is and where it is coming from?
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > 73,
> > > 
> > > Tim K3LR
> > > 
> > > _
> > > Topband Reflector
> > > 
> > > _
> > > Topband Reflector
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ---
> > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast!
> > Antivirus
> > protection is active.
> > http://www.avast.com
> > 
> > _
> > Topband Reflector
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast!
> Antivirus
> protection is active.
> http://www.avast.com
> 
> _
> Topband Reflector
> 
> 




---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW -BTW

[Charlie Cunningham]

Thanks, Gary

Well, there are many vessels from Japan, Korea, US and Canada (and others)
that operate out there! 

Yes, unfortunate that we have intruders in our bands!

73,
Charlie,K4OTV


-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Smith
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 5:36 AM
To: Topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW -BTW

Yes, that's what I was thinking too. The link Frank posted mentions 
continuous operation which is something I hadn't experienced on 160. 
What is amazing to me is how loud their signals are compared to other 
signals I hear on the band. I understand its their saltwater location 
but that's pretty much what I have too and if I was at 100 watts I 
doubt I'd be as loud as those 3W-8W transmitters. Since they're on 
frequencies that are outside the 1900-1999Khz they are most likely 
from some foreign ported ship operating close to our shore. 
Aggravating they make any of those bouys designed to operate in ham 
bands at all.

73,
Gary
KA1J
  
> BTW, Gary,
> 
> When Tim, K3LR, started this thread he also reported that the
> signals peaked
> at around 150 deg, from Middlesex, PA, so that, combined with your
> due south
> bearing, would also put the source out to sea! ( and not in NC or
> SC)
> 
> 73, 
> Charlie, K4OTV


---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW

[Charlie Cunningham]

Thanks for the information, Gary! I'm impressed with and envious of your
directional resolution capability!

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Smith
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 5:35 AM
To: Topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW

I'm using a HI-Z triangular array. Both of these signals are nulled 
significantly due north and are loudest due south not quite as loud 
SW & SE from here.


> BTW, Gary - how are you measuring direction on 80m?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of
> Gary
> Smith
> Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 1:18 AM
> To: Topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
> 
> 3.503.1 due south from SE CT.
> 3.501.6 due south from SE CT
> 
> 73,
> 
> Gary
> KA1J
>  
> > There appears to be a second carrier coming from the same
> direction
> > on
> > 3503.1. It is not as strong as the one on 3501.4. So whatever is
> > going on -
> > two steady carriers are on the low end of 80 CW. 
> > 
> > 73,
> > Tim K3LR
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf
> Of
> > Tim Duffy
> > Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 10:45 PM
> > To: topband@contesting.com
> > Subject: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
> > 
> > I know this is the TopBand reflector - but there has been a
> carrier
> > on
> > 3501.4 for the past few days - that needs some DF work.
> >  
> > It peaks at 150 degrees from K3LR so South South East. It is S9
> this
> > evening
> > 
> > Any ideas on what it is and where it is coming from?
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 73,
> > 
> > Tim K3LR
> > 
> > _
> > Topband Reflector
> > 
> > _
> > Topband Reflector
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast!
> Antivirus
> protection is active.
> http://www.avast.com
> 
> _
> Topband Reflector
> 
> 




---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW -BTW

[Charlie Cunningham]

Thanks for that link, Frank! Very enlightening and interesting!! It does
seem to fit with my speculation that those carriers might be from buoys!

I'm impressed with the directional resolution available to some folks on
this reflector!

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of
donov...@starpower.net
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 2:31 AM
To: Topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW -BTW

This is an example of a fishnet buoy that operates from 1.6 to 4 MHz. 

http://www.blueoceantackle.com/radio_buoys.htm 

The good news is they're battery operated and will ultimately have to be
retrieved 
for battery replacement. 

73 
Frank 
W3LPL 

- Original Message -

From: "Charlie Cunningham"  
To: g...@ka1j.com, Topband@contesting.com 
Sent: Friday, November 1, 2013 6:21:23 AM 
Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW -BTW 

BTW, Gary, 

When Tim, K3LR, started this thread he also reported that the signals peaked

at around 150 deg, from Middlesex, PA, so that, combined with your due south

bearing, would also put the source out to sea! ( and not in NC or SC) 

73, 
Charlie, K4OTV 

-Original Message- 
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary 
Smith 
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 1:18 AM 
To: Topband@contesting.com 
Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW 

3.503.1 due south from SE CT. 
3.501.6 due south from SE CT 

73, 

Gary 
KA1J 

> There appears to be a second carrier coming from the same direction 
> on 
> 3503.1. It is not as strong as the one on 3501.4. So whatever is 
> going on - 
> two steady carriers are on the low end of 80 CW. 
> 
> 73, 
> Tim K3LR 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of 
> Tim Duffy 
> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 10:45 PM 
> To: topband@contesting.com 
> Subject: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW 
> 
> I know this is the TopBand reflector - but there has been a carrier 
> on 
> 3501.4 for the past few days - that needs some DF work. 
> 
> It peaks at 150 degrees from K3LR so South South East. It is S9 this 
> evening 
> 
> Any ideas on what it is and where it is coming from? 
> 
> 
> 
> 73, 
> 
> Tim K3LR 
> 
> _ 
> Topband Reflector 
> 
> _ 
> Topband Reflector 
> 




--- 
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus 
protection is active. 
http://www.avast.com 

_ 
Topband Reflector 

_ 
Topband Reflector 

_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW -BTW

[Charlie Cunningham]

BTW, Gary,

When Tim, K3LR, started this thread he also reported that the signals peaked
at around 150 deg, from Middlesex, PA, so that, combined with your due south
bearing, would also put the source out to sea! ( and not in NC or SC)

73, 
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Smith
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 1:18 AM
To: Topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW

3.503.1 due south from SE CT.
3.501.6 due south from SE CT

73,

Gary
KA1J
 
> There appears to be a second carrier coming from the same direction
> on
> 3503.1. It is not as strong as the one on 3501.4. So whatever is
> going on -
> two steady carriers are on the low end of 80 CW. 
> 
> 73,
> Tim K3LR
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of
> Tim Duffy
> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 10:45 PM
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
> 
> I know this is the TopBand reflector - but there has been a carrier
> on
> 3501.4 for the past few days - that needs some DF work.
>  
> It peaks at 150 degrees from K3LR so South South East. It is S9 this
> evening
> 
> Any ideas on what it is and where it is coming from?
> 
>  
> 
> 73,
> 
> Tim K3LR
> 
> _
> Topband Reflector
> 
> _
> Topband Reflector
> 




---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW

[Charlie Cunningham]

Actually, Gary, if we triangulate using Victor's 150 deg bearing from
Carroll, Ohio and your 180 degree bearing from SE CT, we could plot an
intersection and figure out just about where the source is!  I suspect that
the "modulation" that Tim said was too rapid for QSB is likely due to swells
and wave motion on the sea surface, and those carriers with no IDs may be
NDBs on buoys on drift nets.

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Smith
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 1:18 AM
To: Topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW

3.503.1 due south from SE CT.
3.501.6 due south from SE CT

73,

Gary
KA1J
 
> There appears to be a second carrier coming from the same direction
> on
> 3503.1. It is not as strong as the one on 3501.4. So whatever is
> going on -
> two steady carriers are on the low end of 80 CW. 
> 
> 73,
> Tim K3LR
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of
> Tim Duffy
> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 10:45 PM
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
> 
> I know this is the TopBand reflector - but there has been a carrier
> on
> 3501.4 for the past few days - that needs some DF work.
>  
> It peaks at 150 degrees from K3LR so South South East. It is S9 this
> evening
> 
> Any ideas on what it is and where it is coming from?
> 
>  
> 
> 73,
> 
> Tim K3LR
> 
> _
> Topband Reflector
> 
> _
> Topband Reflector
> 




---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW

[Charlie Cunningham]

Now I understand!!  Victor, K1LT is NOT on New England - he's in OH!  So, I
guess 150 deg to NC or SC makes sense - although he could still be looking
past us out into the ocean, which is what I expect is the case. I guess I'm
just an old coot, and back in the old days, we could tell where someone was
by their call! Guess I'm showing my age!

73.
Charlie, K4OTV - ex K4OTV, W3EJN, W9MXW, N4BZX -now K4OTV again via the
vanity call sign system that allowed me to recover my original call from
1957!  :-)

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Smith
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 1:18 AM
To: Topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW

3.503.1 due south from SE CT.
3.501.6 due south from SE CT

73,

Gary
KA1J
 
> There appears to be a second carrier coming from the same direction
> on
> 3503.1. It is not as strong as the one on 3501.4. So whatever is
> going on -
> two steady carriers are on the low end of 80 CW. 
> 
> 73,
> Tim K3LR
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of
> Tim Duffy
> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 10:45 PM
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
> 
> I know this is the TopBand reflector - but there has been a carrier
> on
> 3501.4 for the past few days - that needs some DF work.
>  
> It peaks at 150 degrees from K3LR so South South East. It is S9 this
> evening
> 
> Any ideas on what it is and where it is coming from?
> 
>  
> 
> 73,
> 
> Tim K3LR
> 
> _
> Topband Reflector
> 
> _
> Topband Reflector
> 




---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW

[Charlie Cunningham]

BTW, Gary - how are you measuring direction on 80m?

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Smith
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 1:18 AM
To: Topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW

3.503.1 due south from SE CT.
3.501.6 due south from SE CT

73,

Gary
KA1J
 
> There appears to be a second carrier coming from the same direction
> on
> 3503.1. It is not as strong as the one on 3501.4. So whatever is
> going on -
> two steady carriers are on the low end of 80 CW. 
> 
> 73,
> Tim K3LR
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of
> Tim Duffy
> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 10:45 PM
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
> 
> I know this is the TopBand reflector - but there has been a carrier
> on
> 3501.4 for the past few days - that needs some DF work.
>  
> It peaks at 150 degrees from K3LR so South South East. It is S9 this
> evening
> 
> Any ideas on what it is and where it is coming from?
> 
>  
> 
> 73,
> 
> Tim K3LR
> 
> _
> Topband Reflector
> 
> _
> Topband Reflector
> 




---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW

[Charlie Cunningham]

Well, that makes a lot more sense, Gary!! That would be down into the
Atlantic or Carribean or SA. I don't understand how Victor could  think that
NC and SC are at 150 deg from him, if he's in New England??

Charlie, K4OTV  Raleigh, NC 

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Smith
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 1:18 AM
To: Topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW

3.503.1 due south from SE CT.
3.501.6 due south from SE CT

73,

Gary
KA1J
 
> There appears to be a second carrier coming from the same direction
> on
> 3503.1. It is not as strong as the one on 3501.4. So whatever is
> going on -
> two steady carriers are on the low end of 80 CW. 
> 
> 73,
> Tim K3LR
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of
> Tim Duffy
> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 10:45 PM
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
> 
> I know this is the TopBand reflector - but there has been a carrier
> on
> 3501.4 for the past few days - that needs some DF work.
>  
> It peaks at 150 degrees from K3LR so South South East. It is S9 this
> evening
> 
> Any ideas on what it is and where it is coming from?
> 
>  
> 
> 73,
> 
> Tim K3LR
> 
> _
> Topband Reflector
> 
> _
> Topband Reflector
> 




---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW

[Charlie Cunningham]

FYI

http://www.w8ji.com/ndb%20beacon%20fish%20buoy%20net%20beacons.htm

(Looks like Tom knows a bit about those beacons - including fishing and
driftnet beacons.

Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Victor A.
Kean, Jr.
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 11:57 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW

On Thursday, October 31, 2013 11:37:57 PM Tim Duffy wrote:
> There appears to be a second carrier coming from the same direction on
> 3503.1. It is not as strong as the one on 3501.4. So whatever is going on
-
> two steady carriers are on the low end of 80 CW. 

Both carriers peak on my 150 degree Beverage as well.  So either
the source is far away from me and Tim or my direction finding is
lousy.

The carriers vary in strength in a pattern that does not seem like
QSB.  The strength varies by about 15 db over about 30 seconds,
watching the P3 and timing by counting (meaning very rough).

Victor, K1LT
_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW

[Charlie Cunningham]

Seems that I saw something a while back about some fishing beacons on the
low end of 80m ( or maybe 160m -but I think it was 80m)

Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Victor A.
Kean, Jr.
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 11:57 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW

On Thursday, October 31, 2013 11:37:57 PM Tim Duffy wrote:
> There appears to be a second carrier coming from the same direction on
> 3503.1. It is not as strong as the one on 3501.4. So whatever is going on
-
> two steady carriers are on the low end of 80 CW. 

Both carriers peak on my 150 degree Beverage as well.  So either
the source is far away from me and Tim or my direction finding is
lousy.

The carriers vary in strength in a pattern that does not seem like
QSB.  The strength varies by about 15 db over about 30 seconds,
watching the P3 and timing by counting (meaning very rough).

Victor, K1LT
_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW

[Charlie Cunningham]

Africa maybe?? Or maritime?

Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Victor A.
Kean, Jr.
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 11:57 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW

On Thursday, October 31, 2013 11:37:57 PM Tim Duffy wrote:
> There appears to be a second carrier coming from the same direction on
> 3503.1. It is not as strong as the one on 3501.4. So whatever is going on
-
> two steady carriers are on the low end of 80 CW. 

Both carriers peak on my 150 degree Beverage as well.  So either
the source is far away from me and Tim or my direction finding is
lousy.

The carriers vary in strength in a pattern that does not seem like
QSB.  The strength varies by about 15 db over about 30 seconds,
watching the P3 and timing by counting (meaning very rough).

Victor, K1LT
_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Balun Question

[Charlie Cunningham]

Hi, Gary,

That does sound like a nice location! Well, I worked over 300 countries with
antennas supported by trees, before I finally got a little 40' tower to
support my home-brew 5-band quad. In trees, I had 40 and 30m vertical
dipoles, 40m vertical yagis - some reversible,  -full-size 80m GP, and
inverted Ls for 160. I worked some good DXpedition stuff like 3Y0 etc.
through ferocious pile-ups - sometimes on "first call"! So towers are not a
necessity! For a friend, who lived in Virginia, I went out into his woods
and built a 5-element steerable 80/75m GP array that was a wonderful
"kick-ass" antenna for long-haul 80/75m DX!

So, I would think that you and your dad are pretty well set!  Have fun!!

73,
Charlie, K4OTV
.

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Smith
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2013 8:51 PM
To: Topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Balun Question

Hi Charlie,

the mast for his inv-V snapped during Hurricane Sandy and I attached 
the apex to the highest remaining part of the PVC mast that snapped, 
that I can reach up to. So for this moment, his Inv-V is more of a 
dipole with the apex 10-15 foot higher than the terminations. Next 
summer I'll wrangle the original assembly up for him and the apex 
will be another 30' higher than it is now.

I had to fell a few trees that were interfering with the wires and 
now he has a clear space with no more interference. So no high 
conditions here, my INV-L is based 20' lower than the basement 350' 
away and is at the edge of a salt marsh with the wire over the tree 
tops. The highest part of my vertical run is maybe 20' higher than 
the apex of his V is today. No possible way to put up anything taller 
for either of us, no towers allowed. It's still a nice location 
though on the end of Long Island sound.

73,

Gary
KA1J


> Hi, Gary
> 
> Should do fine!  The W2DU balun is a good current-mode design by
> someone who
> knew what he was doing! 
> 
> As for 160, I do have a W2DU current mode balun, from Unadilla that
> is
> longer that the 80-10m version (more beads) but I never really
> pushed it. I
> did use it some n 80m. Actually on 160, I didn't really have need
> for a
> balun with the inverted L antennas that I used. I expect that the
> application for a 160 m balun is most likely for guy s with high
> dipoles and
> inverted Vees, and really big delta loops. The w2DU balun will
> workat least
> as well as, and probably better than, the W2AU balun that it woud
> be
> replacing!
> 
>  Hope your dad enjoys it for many more years!  :-)
> 
> 73,
> Charlie, K4OTV
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of
> Gary
> Smith
> Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2013 7:45 PM
> To: Topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: Balun Question
> 
> Fellows,
> 
> Thanks for the on & off list replies, I just got back from a weekend
> away & read through them all. Part of me wants to just leave it as
> is 
> but that's not practical, a good icing and the connections I made 
> will fail. Since I need something to relieve stress from the 
> copperweld and the weight of the coax, the W2DU 1:1 looks like it 
> ought to cover the issues.
> 
> There's no telling when bad weather will hit and once there'ssnow on
> the roof I'm not going up to work on anything so I need to do it
> now. 
> He only operates on 80M phone using a Viewstar PT-2500A amp so the
> W2DU 1:1 ought to be fine. Someday when I'm the one using the
> station 
> I'll want to use it on 160 and I'm not sure how well that balun will
> do on 160 but that's for another time.
> 
> Thank you all for the thoughts and helpful suggestions.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Gary
> KA1J
> 
> > Unfortunately, optimum balun impedance and design really depends
> > heavily on 
> > the application,. There is no magic design that works best for
> all
> > applications, and the issue is so complex that almost any
> article
> > falls 
> > short.
> > 
> > For example, the 5000 ohms pure R will not work at 1500 watts
> with
> > all 
> > antennas. With a balanced feeder having a balun termination
> > impedance of 
> > 2000 ohms, a balun would have 1732V RMS between conductors, and
> 866
> > volts to 
> > ground. CM voltage would be 866 across a perfect balun if the
> feeder
> > were 
> > perfectly balanced.  The 5000 ohm CM impedance balun would
> dissipate
> > 150 
> > watts in the cores, far beyond what any reasonable core stack
> would
> > tolerate. The fact the antenna comes out of balance reduces the
> heat
> > somewhat, but this clearly is a case where we WANT a reactive
> > isolation 
> > impedance to reduce heat.
> > 
> > Making things worse, a half wave antenna fed through 1/4 wave of
> > open wire 
> > might have an impedance of 6000 ohms or more. The above example
> was
> > for 2000 
> > ohms!
> > 
> > Without much effort, we can see why simplistic "always do this"
> > rules just 
> > don't work in the real world.
> > 

Re: Topband: Balun Question

[Charlie Cunningham]

Hi, Gary

Should do fine!  The W2DU balun is a good current-mode design by someone who
knew what he was doing! 

As for 160, I do have a W2DU current mode balun, from Unadilla that is
longer that the 80-10m version (more beads) but I never really pushed it. I
did use it some n 80m. Actually on 160, I didn't really have need for a
balun with the inverted L antennas that I used. I expect that the
application for a 160 m balun is most likely for guy s with high dipoles and
inverted Vees, and really big delta loops. The w2DU balun will workat least
as well as, and probably better than, the W2AU balun that it woud be
replacing!

 Hope your dad enjoys it for many more years!  :-)

73,
Charlie, K4OTV



-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Smith
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2013 7:45 PM
To: Topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Balun Question

Fellows,

Thanks for the on & off list replies, I just got back from a weekend 
away & read through them all. Part of me wants to just leave it as is 
but that's not practical, a good icing and the connections I made 
will fail. Since I need something to relieve stress from the 
copperweld and the weight of the coax, the W2DU 1:1 looks like it 
ought to cover the issues.

There's no telling when bad weather will hit and once there'ssnow on 
the roof I'm not going up to work on anything so I need to do it now. 
He only operates on 80M phone using a Viewstar PT-2500A amp so the 
W2DU 1:1 ought to be fine. Someday when I'm the one using the station 
I'll want to use it on 160 and I'm not sure how well that balun will 
do on 160 but that's for another time.

Thank you all for the thoughts and helpful suggestions.

73,

Gary
KA1J

> Unfortunately, optimum balun impedance and design really depends
> heavily on 
> the application,. There is no magic design that works best for all
> applications, and the issue is so complex that almost any article
> falls 
> short.
> 
> For example, the 5000 ohms pure R will not work at 1500 watts with
> all 
> antennas. With a balanced feeder having a balun termination
> impedance of 
> 2000 ohms, a balun would have 1732V RMS between conductors, and 866
> volts to 
> ground. CM voltage would be 866 across a perfect balun if the feeder
> were 
> perfectly balanced.  The 5000 ohm CM impedance balun would dissipate
> 150 
> watts in the cores, far beyond what any reasonable core stack would
> tolerate. The fact the antenna comes out of balance reduces the heat
> somewhat, but this clearly is a case where we WANT a reactive
> isolation 
> impedance to reduce heat.
> 
> Making things worse, a half wave antenna fed through 1/4 wave of
> open wire 
> might have an impedance of 6000 ohms or more. The above example was
> for 2000 
> ohms!
> 
> Without much effort, we can see why simplistic "always do this"
> rules just 
> don't work in the real world.
> 
> Every situation has to be case-by-case.
> 
> 73 Tom
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Tom Boucher" 
> To: "160 reflector" 
> Sent: Friday, October 25, 2013 10:49 AM
> Subject: Topband: Balun Question
> 
> 
> > Gary KA1J - take a look at this excellent article on ferriste
> baluns by 
> > GM3SEK:
> >
> > http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek/in-prac/inpr1005_ext_v2.pdf
> >
> > 73
> > Tom G3OLB
> > _
> > Topband Reflector
> >
> >
> > -
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3614/6767 - Release Date:
> 10/20/13
> > 
> 
> _
> Topband Reflector
> 



_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Balun question

[Charlie Cunningham]

A W2DU balun, however is another story!  Walt knew what he was doing!

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom W8JI
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 8:41 PM
To: g...@ka1j.com; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Balun question

> Though this reflector is for 160M I have an 80M question that might
> be best asked here. My father W1BML is on an 80 meter net nightly.
> His antenna in an inv-V with 40 & 80 elements though he never uses 40
> any more. I needed to fell a couple of trees to remove branches that
> were touching his copperweld and the W2AU balun he had broke in two
> during the process. (Don't ask, your imagination is probably correct)
> :) And he would like it put back the way it was, with a balun. He's
> 96 so I try to keep him happy.
>
> I'm thinking 10 or so rolls of coax around 1' in diameter ought to be
> fine for a choke on 80. Any better suggestions?

Gary,

The W2AU balun he was happy with isn't a balun at all...it basically has NO 
common mode suppression.

The impedance of a few turns of coax is also next to nothing on 80 meters, 
but almost everyone is "happy" with them.

As a matter of fact, if the feedline from the antenna to the ground point of

the coax is 30-45 feet long, it would need no balun at all for good common 
mode suppression.

This illustrates some of the ridiculous "overkill" we are all caught up in.

Since he was happy with his non-suppression balun, just use anything he 
thinks is a balun. He will be just as happy.  A sting of beads of any 
impedance, a few turns of coax, a big coil of coax, if he didn't notice the 
W2AU balun causing a problem anything you put there will make him happy. 
:)

73 Tom

73 Tom 

_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Balun question

[Charlie Cunningham]

True!  

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom W8JI
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 8:41 PM
To: g...@ka1j.com; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Balun question

> Though this reflector is for 160M I have an 80M question that might
> be best asked here. My father W1BML is on an 80 meter net nightly.
> His antenna in an inv-V with 40 & 80 elements though he never uses 40
> any more. I needed to fell a couple of trees to remove branches that
> were touching his copperweld and the W2AU balun he had broke in two
> during the process. (Don't ask, your imagination is probably correct)
> :) And he would like it put back the way it was, with a balun. He's
> 96 so I try to keep him happy.
>
> I'm thinking 10 or so rolls of coax around 1' in diameter ought to be
> fine for a choke on 80. Any better suggestions?

Gary,

The W2AU balun he was happy with isn't a balun at all...it basically has NO 
common mode suppression.

The impedance of a few turns of coax is also next to nothing on 80 meters, 
but almost everyone is "happy" with them.

As a matter of fact, if the feedline from the antenna to the ground point of

the coax is 30-45 feet long, it would need no balun at all for good common 
mode suppression.

This illustrates some of the ridiculous "overkill" we are all caught up in.

Since he was happy with his non-suppression balun, just use anything he 
thinks is a balun. He will be just as happy.  A sting of beads of any 
impedance, a few turns of coax, a big coil of coax, if he didn't notice the 
W2AU balun causing a problem anything you put there will make him happy. 
:)

73 Tom

73 Tom 

_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Balun question

[Charlie Cunningham]

Just teasin' you, Randy! J  I think the snap-ons would be  quick, simple and
very effective and should outlast the antenna, I expect!

 

From: Randy Lake [mailto:randyn1...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 7:58 PM
To: Charlie Cunningham
Cc: Jim Bennett; g...@ka1j.com; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Balun question

 

I am sorry! That was not very clear.

The info on chokes worked wonderfully for me on 80m and 160m using the Big
31 snap-ons. 

Not only that but lots of good info other than chokes.

Randy

 

On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 7:55 PM, Charlie Cunningham
 wrote:

What "works flawlessly", Randy? The link?  J

 

73,

Charlie, K4OTV

 

From: Randy Lake [mailto:randyn1...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 7:51 PM
To: Charlie Cunningham
Cc: Jim Bennett; g...@ka1j.com; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Balun question

 

Check this link out. It works flawlessly.

audiosystemsgroup.com/RFI-Ham.pdf

 

On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 7:47 PM, Charlie Cunningham
 wrote:

That would work as well. I used something similar, but  with less turns to
precede the 4:1 current balun feeding the drivers on my home brew 5-band
quad.

Charlie, K4OTV


-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Bennett
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 7:41 PM
To: g...@ka1j.com
Cc: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Balun question

I was just looking through the ARRL Antenna Book - if it's RG-8, then 8
turns would work if wound on an 8 inch PVC tube. However, that size PVC may
be difficult to find, and certainly wouldn't be to spiffy hung way up the
air. But then again, you were thinking about 10 turns on a 12 inch diameter
form...? I assume you were going to place it at the apex of the Inverted
Vee, right? An alternative would be to get 5 mix 31 ferrite cores, 2.4 inch
OD and pass the coax through it six times. That ought to get about 5,000 ohm
impedance at 3.5 MHz and would do the trick. I'm using exactly that on my 80
meter Inverted L and it does a fine job. Mouser has those cores for $6-$7
each.

Jim / W6JHB


On   Thursday, Oct 24, 2013, at  Thursday, 4:25 PM, Gary Smith wrote:

> Though this reflector is for 160M I have an 80M question that might be
> best asked here. My father W1BML is on an 80 meter net nightly.
> His antenna in an inv-V with 40 & 80 elements though he never uses 40
> any more. I needed to fell a couple of trees to remove branches that
> were touching his copperweld and the W2AU balun he had broke in two
> during the process. (Don't ask, your imagination is probably correct)
> :) And he would like it put back the way it was, with a balun. He's
> 96 so I try to keep him happy.
>
> I'm thinking 10 or so rolls of coax around 1' in diameter ought to be
> fine for a choke on 80. Any better suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gary
> KA1J
> _
> Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector





 

-- 
Randy Lake N1KWF
73 Gunn Rd.
Keene,NH 





 

-- 
Randy Lake N1KWF
73 Gunn Rd.
Keene,NH 

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Balun question

[Charlie Cunningham]

What "works flawlessly", Randy? The link?  J

 

73,

Charlie, K4OTV

 

From: Randy Lake [mailto:randyn1...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 7:51 PM
To: Charlie Cunningham
Cc: Jim Bennett; g...@ka1j.com; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Balun question

 

Check this link out. It works flawlessly.

audiosystemsgroup.com/RFI-Ham.pdf

 

On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 7:47 PM, Charlie Cunningham
 wrote:

That would work as well. I used something similar, but  with less turns to
precede the 4:1 current balun feeding the drivers on my home brew 5-band
quad.

Charlie, K4OTV


-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Bennett
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 7:41 PM
To: g...@ka1j.com
Cc: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Balun question

I was just looking through the ARRL Antenna Book - if it's RG-8, then 8
turns would work if wound on an 8 inch PVC tube. However, that size PVC may
be difficult to find, and certainly wouldn't be to spiffy hung way up the
air. But then again, you were thinking about 10 turns on a 12 inch diameter
form...? I assume you were going to place it at the apex of the Inverted
Vee, right? An alternative would be to get 5 mix 31 ferrite cores, 2.4 inch
OD and pass the coax through it six times. That ought to get about 5,000 ohm
impedance at 3.5 MHz and would do the trick. I'm using exactly that on my 80
meter Inverted L and it does a fine job. Mouser has those cores for $6-$7
each.

Jim / W6JHB


On   Thursday, Oct 24, 2013, at  Thursday, 4:25 PM, Gary Smith wrote:

> Though this reflector is for 160M I have an 80M question that might be
> best asked here. My father W1BML is on an 80 meter net nightly.
> His antenna in an inv-V with 40 & 80 elements though he never uses 40
> any more. I needed to fell a couple of trees to remove branches that
> were touching his copperweld and the W2AU balun he had broke in two
> during the process. (Don't ask, your imagination is probably correct)
> :) And he would like it put back the way it was, with a balun. He's
> 96 so I try to keep him happy.
>
> I'm thinking 10 or so rolls of coax around 1' in diameter ought to be
> fine for a choke on 80. Any better suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gary
> KA1J
> _
> Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector





 

-- 
Randy Lake N1KWF
73 Gunn Rd.
Keene,NH 

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Balun question

[Charlie Cunningham]

That would work as well. I used something similar, but  with less turns to
precede the 4:1 current balun feeding the drivers on my home brew 5-band
quad.

Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Bennett
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 7:41 PM
To: g...@ka1j.com
Cc: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Balun question

I was just looking through the ARRL Antenna Book - if it's RG-8, then 8
turns would work if wound on an 8 inch PVC tube. However, that size PVC may
be difficult to find, and certainly wouldn't be to spiffy hung way up the
air. But then again, you were thinking about 10 turns on a 12 inch diameter
form...? I assume you were going to place it at the apex of the Inverted
Vee, right? An alternative would be to get 5 mix 31 ferrite cores, 2.4 inch
OD and pass the coax through it six times. That ought to get about 5,000 ohm
impedance at 3.5 MHz and would do the trick. I'm using exactly that on my 80
meter Inverted L and it does a fine job. Mouser has those cores for $6-$7
each.

Jim / W6JHB


On   Thursday, Oct 24, 2013, at  Thursday, 4:25 PM, Gary Smith wrote:

> Though this reflector is for 160M I have an 80M question that might be 
> best asked here. My father W1BML is on an 80 meter net nightly.
> His antenna in an inv-V with 40 & 80 elements though he never uses 40 
> any more. I needed to fell a couple of trees to remove branches that 
> were touching his copperweld and the W2AU balun he had broke in two 
> during the process. (Don't ask, your imagination is probably correct)
> :) And he would like it put back the way it was, with a balun. He's
> 96 so I try to keep him happy.
> 
> I'm thinking 10 or so rolls of coax around 1' in diameter ought to be 
> fine for a choke on 80. Any better suggestions?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Gary
> KA1J
> _
> Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Balun question

[Charlie Cunningham]

Well, might work. Another idea though, check with Fair-Rite - I believe that
they have some cores that wil fit over .405 RG-8, and I know they have lots
that sill fit over RG-58 or RG-8X. If you don't  mind removing the
connector, you can just slip a bunch of them over the end of the cable and
use wire ties to keep them from sliding up and down the cable. I've left
them out in the weather for years with no adverse effects. They also have
snap-ons if you don't' want to remove the connector. About the only thing
that the PVC tube around that W2AU balun does is hold the connectors ( and
maybe trap moisture).

You didn't say what kind of cable, but winding RG-8 around a 1" form can be
sort of a pain!

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Smith
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 7:25 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: Balun question

Though this reflector is for 160M I have an 80M question that might 
be best asked here. My father W1BML is on an 80 meter net nightly. 
His antenna in an inv-V with 40 & 80 elements though he never uses 40 
any more. I needed to fell a couple of trees to remove branches that 
were touching his copperweld and the W2AU balun he had broke in two 
during the process. (Don't ask, your imagination is probably correct) 
 :) And he would like it put back the way it was, with a balun. He's 
96 so I try to keep him happy.

I'm thinking 10 or so rolls of coax around 1' in diameter ought to be 
fine for a choke on 80. Any better suggestions?

Thanks,

Gary
KA1J
_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Light fiber question

[Charlie Cunningham]

BTW, Bill, amplitude modulation and "mixing" are the same process
mathematically. In a "mixer" we just select one of the "sidebands"
-depending on whether we are doing "up-conversion" or "down-conversion"
mixing. So, in an optical fiber, passing 2 MHz 160m RF, there would be two
sidebands at 2 MHz above and below the optical carrier frequency. The
photo-diode would see the optical carrier and the +/- 
2 MHz sidebands as an amptltude modulate optical carrier and we would select
the lower sideband to recover the 2 MHz "baseband" signal.

73,
Charlie, K4OTV
 

73.
Charlie Cunningham

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Wichers
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 1:39 PM
To: Tom W8JI; Shoppa, Tim; Bruce; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Light fiber question

I see your point, since the signal is undergoing a conversion. My thinking
was modulator = baseband to some kind of RF or digital signal, i.e.
something very different from the original signal in terms of content of the
waveform. I wasn't thinking of using a band-limited section of spectrum
being converted to an amplitude-modulated light source as a "modulator" in
this case.

What I had meant was that the electrical->optical conversion doesn't have to
be a particularly fancy system when you're only trying to run about 200kHz
of spectrum over the fiber in the 2(ish)MHz range. The basics I mentioned
before and some op amps are all that are needed. The op amps will likely be
the limiting factor for dynamic range. 

I do agree with you that a simple run of decent coax is likely to be the
better option though.

  -Bill

> Sorry, but by definition that is a modulator and demodulator.
> 
> You have to convert the radio signal to light, and that involves
modulating
> a light beam of some type. At the other end, you have to demodulate the
> light into the original baseband.
> 
> You may not recognize it as a modulator/demodulator system, but that's
> what
> it is. You cannot just hook the coax to the fiber optic cable at each end.
> 
> 73 Tom

_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Antenna switch rating for high SWR?

[Charlie Cunningham]

I liked the idea of the ceramic based knife switch! That ought to take most
anything us hams could throw at it at pretty much any VSWR!  :-)

Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom W8JI
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2013 6:39 PM
To: Joe Subich, W4TV; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Antenna switch rating for high SWR?

The rub with any of this is the contact-to-coil breakdown.


- Original Message - 
From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2013 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: Topband: Antenna switch rating for high SWR?


>
>> I know that T/R switches inside amps are fairly small in physical
>> size, however they are designed to operate into a fairly low SWR
>> load. I have no idea of what rating of a DPDT switch I would need
>> (per the diagram) in my application - perhaps I'm making a bigger
>> deal of something that isn't so critical.?
>
> Fire up ELNEC or your favorite modelling software and run your
> specific combination of flat-top length/height and feeder length
> to find out what the voltage and current are at the input of the
> feed line.  That will tell you what you need for the relay.
>
> Remember, you can use *TWO* high voltage/high current "contactors"
> and mount them on Lexan or similar non-conducting surface to increase
> the voltage to ground rating if necessary.
>
> 73,
>
>... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 10/20/2013 12:04 PM, John Harper wrote:
>> Morning all,
>>
>>
>>
>> I am planning to put in a DPDT switch (or relay) to allow me to easily
>> switch from using my 80m dipole as a vertical (T-top) antenna on 160m:
>>
>> http://www.ae5x.com/docs/antennas/160mT.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>> The dipole is fed with 450-ohm ladder line and used 10-80m in that
>> configuration so there is a high SWR on the line. I sometimes use a kw
>> output.
>>
>>
>>
>> I know that T/R switches inside amps are fairly small in physical size,
>> however they are designed to operate into a fairly low SWR load. I have 
>> no
>> idea of what rating of a DPDT switch I would need (per the diagram) in my
>> application - perhaps I'm making a bigger deal of something that isn't so
>> critical.?
>>
>>
>>
>> John AE5X
>>
>> http://www.ae5x.com/blog
>>
>>
>>
>> _
>> Topband Reflector
>>
> _
> Topband Reflector
>
>
> -
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3614/6755 - Release Date: 10/16/13
> 

_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: impedance of 3/8 radiator and question on matching

[Charlie Cunningham]

Hi, Carsten

You might try it with just a series C into the 3/8 wave on 80m. The VSWR may
not be that bad!  Then you could always add a 4:1 balun or transformer if
needed.

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Carsten
Esch
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2013 9:35 AM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: impedance of 3/8 radiator and question on matching

Hi,

I am playing with a 3/8 radiator for 80m (to the time being fed against 
40 radials of each 40m length).
What is the impedance I should expect from a 3/8 radiator?

My plan was to use it as a 3/8 on 80m and match it for you on 160m too 
(until we will put a Gamma match on our 60m tower).

Here is what I measured with my AIM today:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/48sp1703lnaiyu1/3%3A8_Test.bmp

(and here the actual *.SCN file):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ql17wcsk2rpqj1o/3%3A8_Test.scn

Any advise on matching would be welcome ;-)

Thanks!

Carsten, DL6LAU


_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Raised radial question from NH

[Charlie Cunningham]

Hi, Bruce

Well, the KAZ antenna is named for Neil Kazaross one of the original
designers that optimized the terminated delta loop for MW broadcast
reception. The 10' X 40' K KAZ that I threw together some years ago,  worked
wonders for me on 160 on my modest city lot with no room for beverages.
Great receive antenna for 160, 80, 40 and 30!

As for the "adult beverages - because I believed that they might be
interfering with some of my meds, I just had to "put the cork in the bottle"
and leave it there!  :-)

73,
Charlie, K4OTV











-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2013 5:26 PM
To: Charlie Cunningham; 'Jim F.'; 'top Band'; 'Jim Fitton'
Subject: Re: Topband: Raised radial question from NH

Charlie,

The so called KAZ is a receiving Delta loop. I ran into the KAZ name when 
Broadcast Band SWL's were purchasing transformers from me. This was well 
after Earl, K6SE (sk)
had further developed the small Delta loop for optimum on 1.830 MHZ.  It has

always been called a Delta loop because it physically looks like a Delta.

Wonder if someone was trying to hy-jack the antenna  name.?

Hope no one begins calling a Beverage antenna something like  "Gin and 
tonic, on the rocks".  ( ; > )

73
Bruce-K1FZ





- Original Message - 
From: "Charlie Cunningham" 
To: "'Jim F.'" ; "'top Band'" ; 
"'Jim Fitton'" 
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2013 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: Topband: Raised radial question from NH


> Good luck, Jim!!
>
> BTW I've worked some good stuff all round the world on 160 with a 70 foot
> tall Inv L with two elevated radials that ran along my lot lines.
>
> For receiving, the 'KAZ" terminated loop is delta shape and it  could be
> supported by one line at the apex, and the ends could be tied off to trees
> or stakes with two more lines. It's ground-independent, so the lower
> horizontal wire only  needs to be a very few feet off the ground. I built
> one that was 12' high at the apex and the horizontal bottom wire was 40' 
> at
> 2' off the ground. It was  a GREAT receive antenna for 160, 80, 40 and 
> 30m.
> You would likely need a preamp on 160. You might not have time enough this
> afternoon to build it and wind the matching transformer, though. You might
> just try a wire on the ground - perhaps 1/4 wave? As a temporary effort.
>
> Good luck!
>
> 73,
> Charlie, K4OTV
>

_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Raised radial question from NH

[Charlie Cunningham]

Good luck, Jim!!

BTW I've worked some good stuff all round the world on 160 with a 70 foot
tall Inv L with two elevated radials that ran along my lot lines.  

For receiving, the 'KAZ" terminated loop is delta shape and it  could be
supported by one line at the apex, and the ends could be tied off to trees
or stakes with two more lines. It's ground-independent, so the lower
horizontal wire only  needs to be a very few feet off the ground. I built
one that was 12' high at the apex and the horizontal bottom wire was 40' at
2' off the ground. It was  a GREAT receive antenna for 160, 80, 40 and 30m.
You would likely need a preamp on 160. You might not have time enough this
afternoon to build it and wind the matching transformer, though. You might
just try a wire on the ground - perhaps 1/4 wave? As a temporary effort.

Good luck!

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim F.
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2013 1:18 PM
To: Charlie Cunningham; 'top Band'; 'Jim Fitton'
Subject: Re: Topband: Raised radial question from NH

Thank you Charlie,

In that case I may be able to get another raised radial up before the action
begins later this afternoon.

A receiving antenna is a definite possibility also especially if one could
be rigged to go up and down easily. Good idea.

Thanks again Charlie.

Jim / W1FMR



On Saturday, October 19, 2013 12:38 PM, Charlie Cunningham
 wrote:
 
Hi, Jim

In my experience, the answer is "no" to both questions - although a full
size inverted L , while being a very effective transmit antenna can be a
really noisy receive antenna. Can you go out in the woods and hang a flag,
pennant or KAZ terminated loop for a receive antenna? Helped me a LOT o RX!

Good luck!

73,
Charlie


-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim F.
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2013 12:28 PM
To: top Band; Jim Fitton
Subject: Topband: Raised radial question from NH

Nothing heard this morning in NH at 1530Z.

Am in a condo environment where invisibility is a factor.
Antenna is an Inverted L  fed through a series capacitor with two #22
ga. raised radials 136' long ~ 10 feet high running through the woods
which have stayed up 2 days so far.

One question :

Do you think that thin radials could cause an increase in receiver noise ?

Another question :

The 50 ohm feedline line is 25' long connected directly to the rig.
Is isolation needed to preserve the effectiveness of raised radials ?
If so, what would the isolation consist of ?

73

Jim / W1FMR / QRP
_
Topband Reflector
_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Raised radial question from NH

[Charlie Cunningham]

Hi, Jim

In my experience, the answer is "no" to both questions - although a full
size inverted L , while being a very effective transmit antenna can be a
really noisy receive antenna. Can you go out in the woods and hang a flag,
pennant or KAZ terminated loop for a receive antenna? Helped me a LOT o RX!

Good luck!

73,
Charlie

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim F.
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2013 12:28 PM
To: top Band; Jim Fitton
Subject: Topband: Raised radial question from NH

Nothing heard this morning in NH at 1530Z.

Am in a condo environment where invisibility is a factor.
Antenna is an Inverted L  fed through a series capacitor with two #22
ga. raised radials 136' long ~ 10 feet high running through the woods
which have stayed up 2 days so far.

One question :

Do you think that thin radials could cause an increase in receiver noise ?

Another question :

The 50 ohm feedline line is 25' long connected directly to the rig.
Is isolation needed to preserve the effectiveness of raised radials ?
If so, what would the isolation consist of ?

73

Jim / W1FMR / QRP
_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: W8ji ATR-10 design 160M?

[Charlie Cunningham]

I expect that needs to be a good quality and seriously heavy duty switch
that's used to vary the configuration of the matching network - at least at
full power!

Thanks, Tom!

Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom W8JI
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 1:45 PM
To: MU 4CX250B
Cc: topband
Subject: Re: Topband: W8ji ATR-10 design 160M?

wants to start an argument, but rather just want to understand how your
invention differs from an ordinary T - network with a fixed capacitor. I -
and I'm sure many others - would merely like you to explain how your
innovative circuit works and how it differs from T-
network>>


It is all explained here, complete with drawings:

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4763087.pdf

You can decide what the network configuration is. 

_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: W8ji ATR-10 design 160M?

[Charlie Cunningham]

Thanks for sharing the patent info, Frank! Really interesting!

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of
donov...@starpower.net
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:15 PM
To: topband 
Cc: Tim Shoppa
Subject: Re: Topband: W8ji ATR-10 design 160M?

Hi Tim, 

This is the patent for the classic Edgar F. Johnson (E.F. Johnson)
transposition insulator: 

http://reference.insulators.info/patents/patents/pdf/4/us002043754-001.pdf 

http://www.google.com/patents/US2043754 

I've seen these a few times at hamfests, without exception the sellers are
clueless about what they are. 

73 
Frank 
W3LPL 



- Original Message -

From: "Tim Shoppa"  
To: "Paul Christensen" , "topband"  
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 4:37:09 PM 
Subject: Re: Topband: W8ji ATR-10 design 160M? 

Very interesting! I remember seeing transposition blocks at hamfests when I
was a kid but I didn't know what they were at the time. Looking up some old
patents, e.g. http://www.google.com/patents/US2305688 and
http://www.google.com/patents/US2135344 show something very similar to what
I saw as a kid. 

The advice I was always given about parallel lines, is to have some twist in
them, not just to help with balance, but to help prevent them from turning
into "sails" in high wind. 

Where possible I try to put my tuner where the wire enters the shack. I
thought I was pretty clever the way I set up my link-coupled tuner,
wall-mounted L network, plugboard to select L and C based on band, etc.,
then I open an old issue of QST and there's a picture of a kid who had the
EXACT same setup on the wall of his shack 60 years ago. I mean, exact. 

Tim N3QE 

-Original Message- 
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Paul
Christensen 
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 11:18 AM 
To: topband 
Subject: Re: Topband: W8ji ATR-10 design 160M? 

> So what different bout your tuner, is it like the ATR-10 design? 

Nothing special. It's just a symmetrical balanced tuner with a pair of
synchronized roller inductors and a large vacuum variable cap (with a very
small minimum C and large max C) that's switched with a pair of vacuum
relays. A 1:1 coaxial choke is used on the input since the circuit is
symmetrical. In fact, it's really just a variation of the AG6K tuner
described in QST some twenty years ago. 

I went with this design since I'm presently restricted to wire antennas. 
And due to the presence of switch-mode appliance noise, the goal was to keep
the open feeders as far away from the house as possible. Balanced open lines
are capable of a high degree of balance but on receive, their ability to
cancel noise is dependent on the orientation of the line to the direction of
the noise source. If you look at early literature from the 1930s, open
feeders often used transposition blocks. I own several different types made
by E.F. Johsnon as display pieces. Nice concept -- I'm not sure how
satisfied I would be with using them. Anyway, to better deal with the
household noise issues, the tuner is located outside of the house, in a
weatherproof enclosure. LMR400 is then used between the tuner and shack. 

Paul, W9AC 











_ 
Topband Reflector 
_ 
Topband Reflector 

_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: 160m Inverted L High SWR-SUCCESS!

[Charlie Cunningham]

FB, Bill!

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bill Stewart
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 5:18 PM
To: topband
Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Inverted L High SWR-SUCCESS!


Good afternoon all...and a good one it is. 
I won't bore y'all with the fine details, but will say that here are the 
final results: 
Vert lgth: 55 ft 
Total lgth: 137.5 ft 
C-P wires (4 @ 9' high): 135 ft long 
Shunt capacitor: 3 ea 500uuf doorknobs - 1500uuf total 
  Variable cap. not needed 
2:1 SWR points: 1.800 mhz/1.841mhz 
   Min. SWR at 1.820 - 1.3:1 
TS-440S, boatanchors and me are happy. 
Lesson learned: what works for other folks ain't necessarily 
gonna work for me. 
  
Thanks to all for the comments, suggestions, etc. 
What a great group here on the Topband list. 
  
73 de Bill, K4JYS 
_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: 160m Inverted L High SWR

[Charlie Cunningham]

10-fo'  !!   :-)

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Karlquist
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2013 6:35 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Inverted L High SWR

On 2013-11-02 14:29, Charlie Cunningham wrote:

> dealt with by using a tuner between the transceiver  and the
> feed-line, rather than doing all that work at the antenna.  Not much

All what work at the antenna?  Just add a 2400 pF shunt capacitor
and adjust the length of the antenna for resonance?  Works perfectly
on my vertical.

Rick N6RK
_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: 160m Inverted L High SWR

[Charlie Cunningham]

Hi, Bill

In your first post, you indicated that min VSWR was 2.9:1 at 1833 KHz, 
indicating that the system was resonant exactly where  you wanted I to be.

Could I respectfully suggest that at 1.8 MHz, even with a really long coaxial 
feed-line, the excess loss with a 2.9:1 VSWR over a "flat"  (!:1 VSWR) line is 
really not much at all? The fact that your transceiver is throttling back due 
to the 2.9:1 VSWR could be easily dealt with by using a tuner between the 
transceiver  and the feed-line, rather than doing all that work at the antenna. 
 Not much of a problem at all if you are only running a couple hundred watts. A 
lot less work and frustration! And the excess loss would be relatively 
insignificant at 160m.

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bill Stewart
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2013 3:48 PM
To: topband
Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Inverted L High SWR


To all who responded...many thanks. 
I am now in the process of reading over all the suggestions, which were 
plentiful. 
  
So far I have tried folding back (shortening) the C-P wires by 2 ftno 
change, but I'm gonna make a more drastic change and see what that does. I 
changed the coax run also, with no change. SWR still just shy of 3:1. I will 
move on to some of the other suggestions. 
  
Question 1: there was mention of tuning the C-P wires. Does that mean to trim 
them to the desired operating freq (swr min)...leaving the vert as is? 
Would the method be to apply rf between one wire (all others unhooked) and the 
vert and adj the C-P wire for the desired freq. 
  
Question 2: there was also mention of using a choke at the feed point. 
Recommendations were 30T of 9913 on 8" dia & 30T of RG8 on 6" dia. 
I'm using RG8X so I guess abt the same T/dia would work..doesn't seem too 
critical.  
  
I can only extend the horiz. section abt ten more feet before the end gets into 
the support tree so will probably have to leave it around 130' long. 
I will only be running a max of 200w so no hi-pwr coax or other HV devices 
should be needed. 
  
Again, thanks for all the helpful comments...now out to the back yard..again. 
73 de Bill K4JYS
_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Fixed capacitor source needed (150pf 5KV)

[Charlie Cunningham]

Hi, Herb

I would think that 2-3 of those 500 pF caps in series would be just fine!
Have you tried just one?

Also, are those capacitors on the load side of the tuner as an aid in
matching really low impedances?  If so, you can almost certainly use
something with less than 5KV working voltage, even at full power!

Check Digi-Key also

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

P.S.  I think you could avoid adding 5' of RG-8 or RG58 - but you could add
it in parallel with your 16o feed line via a Tee connector.


-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Herb
Schoenbohm
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2013 10:46 AM
To: TopBand List; towert...@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: Fixed capacitor source needed (150pf 5KV)

I have a Drake MN2700 so I can at least get the amp to work above 
1870Khz during contests.  The tuner used some fixed flat 150pf 5KV 
capacitors to switch in from the front selector as increased capacity is 
need to make the tuner work.  I can't find any door knob substitutes at 
that value in my junk box. I am thus looking for a source for these 
values but so far have not found anything that I can use as a 
substitute. I presume I could make some out of sections of RG-8 mini 
roller up in a coIl but before I try this I am searching for a door knob 
source.  I have some 500pf at 5KV and three of them in series might be 
close enough but i still need the correct values.  If any reader to this 
knows of other ATU manufactures that use the copper teflon flat 
capacitor in their units maybe   could order 150 pf 5KV from them.


Your help on this would be appreciated.


Herb, KV4FZ
_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: 5/8 wavelength vertical is mo betta than shorter versions??

[Charlie Cunningham]

???

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Fry
Sent: Friday, September 27, 2013 7:27 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: 5/8 wavelength vertical is mo betta than shorter
versions??

Niko AC6DD wrote:
>... the 5/8 Vertical idea came from the "All About Vertical Antennas" Book.

>Getting 3dB with some wire and a balloon sounded pretty good.


The approximate 3 dB improvement of the radiated field of a 5/8-wave 
monopole compared to a 1/4-wave monopole refer only to the maximum fields 
they radiate, NOT to the fields they radiate at  __all__  elevation angles.

Those maximum fields always occur in the horizontal plane, regardless of the

vertical monopole radiator length/height, and/or the conductivity of the 
earth within a 1/2-wavelength radius from the base of that monopole.

This may be confirmed by referring back to the FCC document linked earlier 
in this thread ( 
http://s20.postimg.org/olcquv94d/Monopole_Elev_Patterns.gif ).

For 1 kW of applied power, the groundwave field radiated by a perfect 
1/4-wave radiator over a perfect ground plane is about 195 mV/m.  For those 
conditions using a 5/8-wave radiator, the field at 1 mile is about 275 mV/m.

Other things equal, this field improvement in the horizontal plane for a 
5/8-wave vertical monopole relative to a 1/4-wave vertical monopole is very 
close to 3 dB.

RF 

_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: 5/8 wavelength vertical is mo betta than shorterversions??

[Charlie Cunningham]

Hi Herb.

I'll bet that 1/2 wave sloper worked great!  When this thread got started, I
modeled several verticals in EZNEC from 1/4 wave to 5/8 wave in height. I
sent the plots around to folks that were interested via e-mail. Couldn't
post them here on the reflector. At the request of Carl, KM1H,I also modeled
the 3/8 wave case.
The 3/8 wave vertical was, indeed an excellent antenna, according to the
models, as was the 1/2 wave vertical. At 5/8 wave, though high-angle lobes
appear with some dips in the elevation pattern.  I would expect that one
might get an acceptable match to a 3/8 wave vertical with a simple series
capacitor and a perfect match with a series C and a shunt C.

73,
Charlie, K4OTV


-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Herb
Schoenbohm
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2013 11:33 AM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: 5/8 wavelength vertical is mo betta than
shorterversions??




I was very fortunate to have a 308 insulated Blau-Knox self supported 
tower in my back yard with 120 radials all 250' long, in the later 70's 
and early 80's and when the radio station was off the air at midnight 
able to match this monstor well with a tuned circuits at the base.  
Results were very discouraging as I expected it to rock and roll on top 
band and it didn't.  Instead I hung a 1/2 wave center fed 45 degree 
sloper from a rope to the top with the tower as an untuned periodic 
reflector and zounds!  Being able to work 10 watt G-stations (I think 
this was their power limit at that time) and many other Eu stations made 
me convinced that a 5/8 wave vertical, even over an excellent ground 
wasted energy  at none optimal radiation angels.  Their appeared on the 
books a very high angle lobe which is not useful for DX plus significant 
radiation below 10 degrees.  I am not sure where the too low angle is on 
160 but something was definitely wrong.  The sloper changed all that.  I 
also believe, and I hope I am right, that an excellent efficient 
vertical height for top band is a 3/8 wave vertical.  It is also very 
easy to feed with just a series capacitor to tune out the inductive 
reactance.


Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ



On 9/26/2013 10:52 AM, Mike Waters wrote:
> A lot of hams on 160m have been similarly "shocked". :-)
>
> 73, Mike
> www.w0btu.com
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Niko Cimbur  wrote:
>
>> We were shocked to find that the existing 1/4 wl performed better than
the
>> much taller [5/8 wave] Vertical.
>>
> _
> Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: 5/8 wavelength vertical is mo betta than shorterversions??

[Charlie Cunningham]

Quite a bit of the radiation from 5/8 wave verticals is at relatively high
elevation angles - above 40 degrees elevation.

(Perhaps useful for VHF mobiles that need to hit mountain top or hill-top
repeaters)

Charlie, K4OTV


-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Waters
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2013 10:53 AM
To: topband
Subject: Re: Topband: 5/8 wavelength vertical is mo betta than
shorterversions??

A lot of hams on 160m have been similarly "shocked". :-)

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Niko Cimbur  wrote:

>
> We were shocked to find that the existing 1/4 wl performed better than the
> much taller [5/8 wave] Vertical.
>
_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Double L antenna as an alternative for the radial-challenged?

[Charlie Cunningham]

Hi, Andreas

Well, it's interesting. I could try modeling it in EZNEC, Have you tried
that? 

I wonder a bit about how good the cancellation is between the horizontal
wires, when the lower one is only 10' off the ground, but a model might
provide some insight! (I'd wonder a bit too about the proximity of the
vertical portion to the tower!)

Good luck with it!

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Andreas
Hofmann
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 2:24 PM
To: 'topband@contesting.com'
Subject: Topband: Double L antenna as an alternative for the
radial-challenged?

Hi,

I am looking into what it would take to put a decent 160m antenna up.  I got
many large trees, but also rather thick woods, and the radials are always
something that I do not enjoy much. Also, I cannot see myself to do 16
radials. 4 elevated radials may be tough as well.  Terrain is just not as
easy to get around.

Now, I am looking at options that do not require radials and still have a
decent radiation angle for DX.  I am looking at this antenna
http://www.yccc.org/Articles/double_l.htm, the double L antenna.  Has anyone
experience with it?  What is the pattern of it and can it be compared to a
quarter wave vertical?  I would assume since it somehow resembles a vertical
dipole and therefore does not require any radials, that its efficiency
should be much better than a quarter wave vertical with less than adequate
number of radials...  Are my assumptions correct, and are there any other
gotchas?

Thanks and cu soon on topband
Andy,
KU7T
_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: BEACON

[Charlie Cunningham]

What's the objective of your beacon experiment, Don?

Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of
dnem...@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 7:11 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: BEACON

My 1 watt beacon is on 1999.5 running at the present time at  Chittenango, 
NY 15 miles east of Syracuse, NY into a 43 foot non resonant  vertical 
antenna. It will be on until 11:00 PM tonight, 03:00 Monday.
Any report of copy appreciated to_.dnemoth@aol.com_ 
(mailto:to.dnem...@aol.com) .. Thank you,  Don W2MPK
_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: 'Hairpin' matching

[Charlie Cunningham]

Yes, EZNEC does work!!  I've had great success with it over the years. It
was great for my home-brew (home-EZNEC-designed) single-feedline 5-band
quad. It was great when I was building and tuning it to watch all the
resonances and impedances fall in line just where EZNEC predicted! ("Killer"
antenna!)

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom
Boucher
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 2:25 AM
To: 160 reflector
Subject: Topband: 'Hairpin' matching

The excellent web site for calculating matching network values should have
been: 

http://home.sandiego.edu/~ekim/e194rfs01/jwmatcher/matcher2.html 

not the one I posted yesterday.

73,
Tom G3OLB

_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: elevated radials

[Charlie Cunningham]

Hi, Mike

You've reminded me that I have pair of 2 amp FS RF ammeters (1950s/1960s
era) that I need to hunt up and squirrel away before clearing out the junk
around my home and preparing to move out. Someday, I may be able to put up
another 160 antenna!

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Waters
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 11:42 AM
To: topband
Subject: Re: Topband: elevated radials

Hello Jim,

Thank you for this. I don't doubt for a second that my elevated 1/4 wave
radial currents may be unequal. I should throw together an RF current meter
and check them sometime, and add more radials while I'm at it. After the
ticks and chiggers here die, though. :-)

I don't have any Communications Quarterly issues, but K5IU's article sounds
interesting, if anyone has a copy.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

**
> Hey Mike
>
> Saw your post to TB reflector:
>
> "I suppose if you made the elevated radials long, then you could adjust
> the current balance with series variable capacitors. You could use a
simple
> clamp-on meter like W8JI has on his site to measure the relative current,
> perhaps.I didn't bother with that myself, I was just careful to keep the
> radial lengths the same length and height."
>
> My old friend K5IU had an article "Optimum Elevated Radial Vertical
> Antennas" in Communication Quarterly, Spring 1997, pp 9 - 27.  He showed
> why 1/4 wave elevated radials are the worst length as it invariably
results
> in radials having unequal currents (at least on the low bands where the
> height is small in terms of lambda).  He only concluded the pattern was
> distorted, explicitly stating no opinion on efficiency.  Dick is pretty
> careful - he likes actual measurements. The fix was to use non-1/4 wave
> radials with a single lumped reactance between the shield and the junction
> of all the radials to bring to resonance.  Using separate reactors for
each
> radial makes it too critical to adjust.
>
> Since some of his measurements showed next to no current in some radials,
> I figured right off the efficiency would almost always be higher with
equal
> currents, even when using shorter radials of the same number.  I never
> needed to use elevated radials, so it was all merely academic for me.
>
> I'll bet anything you have very unequal currents in your elevated radials
> despite their being precisely the same physical length.  Dick's article
> shows how he measured the currents with a simple HB device.  Don't know if
> it is simpler than W8JI's or not.
>
_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Measuring Vertical input parameters while installing radials

[Charlie Cunningham]

Hi, Eddie

Nicely done!  Looks reasonably professional to me!  At the very least,
you've made a good effort to quantify your results in a meaningful and
repeatable way, with decent tools.  No need to tune your sense antennas, as
long as there is enough signal level and dynamic range for your FS
measurements.

Congrats on having mad some meaningful quantitative measurements! Thanks for
sharing!

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Eduardo
Araujo
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 8:32 AM
To: Topband
Subject: Re: Topband: Measuring Vertical input parameters while installing
radials

Hi friends,
    I finished sending the measurements data to all that
requested it. In case somebody didn´t receive it yet, please let me know.

Even though I did not mention it before, I also have Field Strength
measurement synchronized in time with the AIM measurements.

As surely this was not a professional procedure, I will explain how I did it
and you may judge if it is useful for you or not.

- I installed 2 verticals antennas 3 mts long, at about 300-350 meters from
the tower base in two opposite directions. So measurement was done at ground
level.
- I did not tuned up the elements in any way, they were connected to the FS
instrument directly and as ground connection I used a 50 cm aluminum pipe
buried in the ground

- As a FS meter I used a DIGI - FIELD from IC- Engineering 

- First 2 radials were installed more or less in the direction of the RX
verticals
- From there, they were installed consecutive in counter-clock wise. (look
from above)
- I used 20W at 1840 during daylight, and matched the antenna input for
every change in radial number. I used an MFJ-962B for this purpose.
- After all readings were done, I calibrate the readings against an HP-8640B
signal to visualize which was the change in db

Botton line - the measured change at ground level between 2 and 114 radials
was between 5.2 in one direction and 5.8 db to the other.

I understand this is not a professional procedure nor professional equipment
and it was done having fun enjoying the hobby.

I will like to hear from you your thought about if this kind of measurement
done at ground level and at that distance from the antenna base has a
correlation to actual radiated Field at the maximum vertical azimuth of the
vertical whichever it is.
And, also, How the procedure or elements I used could be improved still
within amateur measurement accuracy and not professional level.


'73 to all. Eddie, LU2DKT








From: Eduardo Araujo 

To: Topband  
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 9:28 AM
Subject: Measuring Vertical input parameters while installing radials 
 


Hi everyone, I recently complete the installation of +100 1/4 radials for
the 1/4 vertical.

I measured input vertical parameters using AIM4170 from 1600 to 2000Kc

I assumed it is not something new for many of you, but I wonder if the
information I collected may be of interest for some of the group members.

I have available for sharing BMP or JPG images of each scan which were run
at 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 60 and +110 radials. Also, I have the .scn files for
each scan which could be viewed using AIM4170 SW even though you don´t have
the unit. 


The good thing looking at the files using the sw is that you can move the
cursor and have all the values at all fcies from 1600-2000 Kc

In case someone is interested, let me know and I will see the way to share
it.

´73 to everyone Eddie, LU2DKT

PS: By the way, what a nice toy the AIM !!!, Even though I bought it more
than one year ago, this is the first time I use it
_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: AutoEZ v2 with Optimizer

[Charlie Cunningham]

Thanks for sharing, Dan! I've used EZNEC a LOT over the years, and I've done
a lot of useful work with it, but I was unaware of AutoEZ. I'll look into it
and maybe investigate the paid version as well.

Thanks, and have a good day!

73,
Charlie, K4OTV


-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Dan
Maguire
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 4:48 AM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: AutoEZ v2 with Optimizer

AutoEZ is an Excel application that lets you automate the use of EZNEC.
Version 2 is now available.  Major changes are 1) an optimizer, 2) new
"Create" dialog windows to easily build common antenna configurations, and
3) faster calculation speeds.

The AutoEZ home page with revised documentation is here:
http://ac6la.com/autoez.html

For a complete list of all changes since v1 see:
http://ac6la.com/aenewforv2.html

A free demo version of AutoEZ is available for download.  The demo includes
the optimizer feature.

Dan, AC6LA
_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: 'Hairpin' matching

[Charlie Cunningham]

Very nice to have all of those collected into one place!

Thanks for sharing, Tom!  Have a god day!

73, 
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom
Boucher
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 2:25 AM
To: 160 reflector
Subject: Topband: 'Hairpin' matching

The excellent web site for calculating matching network values should have
been: 

http://home.sandiego.edu/~ekim/e194rfs01/jwmatcher/matcher2.html 

not the one I posted yesterday.

73,
Tom G3OLB

_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Topband: FW: Hairpin Matching Coil Questions - "Shunt"?

[Charlie Cunningham]

I suppose it could be considered "shunt" matching since the inductor is in
parallel with the coaxial feed-line, or 50 ohm point. The point, though, is
that that the inductor must resonant with the capacitive reactance of the
shortened vertical element, that has been shortened from its resonant length
to provide capacitive reactance. The required loaded or "operating" Q is
determined by Q*2 +1 for the resulting L network. In your case, the required
"operating" Q would be near 1.

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Charlie
Cunningham
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 2:44 PM
To: 'Jim GM'; 'Tom W8JI'
Cc: 'topband'
Subject: Re: Topband: Hairpin Matching Coil Questions

Hello, Jim

You seem to be "lost"!

First of all, the "thing" that you originally called a "hairpin match" is
NOT a "shunt match".  The coil, or "hairpin" is in SERIES with the reactance
and radiation resistance and copper losses of the antenna!

For the "thing" to "work" the antenna must be shortened some from its
resonant length, so that its series reactance is capacitive.

The "formula" that you are looking for is Q2+1, that is the impedance
transformation formula for an L-network. In this case the L-network is
formed by the series capacitive reactance  of the antenna element and the
shunt inductance of  the coil or "hairpin".

If your antenna looks like 25 ohms resistive at resonance, then the required
loaded Q of the network = 1, so that 25 ohms( Q2+1) = 50 ohms.

>From that we could deduce that |jXL| = 25 and |jXc| = 25.

So, you could start your design by calculating L. I believe that you would
find that it's approx. 8.8 uH.

Then shorten the antenna to resonate with that.

BUT - why not just connect the coax directly to the end of the vertical???
If it looks like 27 ohms, as you say, then the excess loss in any
reasonable, finite length of RG-8 or RG-213 over the flat-loss in the same
length of line at 1.8 MHz is negligible.  Just match the feedling in the
shack!

Sorry, but for me to derive all of the above numbers and formulas from first
principles would require more derivation, more tutorial and more  time
typing mathematical formulas, and symbols and superscripts and subscripts
than I have time for at the moment.

73,
Charlie, K4OTV



-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim GM
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 1:05 PM
To: Tom W8JI
Cc: topband
Subject: Re: Topband: Hairpin Matching Coil Questions

The thing works, I mean the shunt match works.

what would be a good Q for just the coil?  300, 600, 900

Operating Q, what is the desired value?  Whats your formula for that?

Q of the operating antenna, cannot be expressed as band width equation I
see so many others use. there is another quick easy formula that, may be a
function or derivative that has some relationship, but not the number we
really want.  Not even sure if it would get every one in every situation in
the ball park.


On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 4:31 PM, Tom W8JI  wrote:

> Hi Jim,
>
> A gamma match is an arm extending out or up on the element from the
> "ground" point. It is named "gamma" because it looks like the capital
Greek
> letter called "gamma". See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Gamma<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma>
>
> A beta match is called a beta because it extends equally on each side of
> the neutral point, roughly looking like the Greek letter beta on it's side
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Beta <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta>
>
> A hairpin match is a hairpin shaped "stub inductor", generally balanced,
> but it could be unbalanced.  It is called a hairpin because it looks like
a
> hairpin, just like a "bobby pin" spread out a little.
>
> A shunt matching component can be used, either an inductor or capacitor,
> but this is typically called shunt matching because it is a shunt
component
> across the feedpoint. It is not a hairpin unless it is in the form of a
> hairpin.
>
> Hairpins and shunt matching generally act like L networks, with the series
> reactance in the element (caused by adding or subtracting length to move
> the element away from resonance). Gamma and Beta matchs can do the same,
> use the adjustment in length away from resonance to act like a reactance,
> or the Gamma or Beta might contain a series internal component(s) so the
> element can be resonant.
>
> Q can mean many things. The style or construction of the component usually
> has little bearing on the operating Q of the system, unless you have a
> terrible matching system or component design.
>
> The Q people generally tal

Re: Topband: Hairpin Matching Coil Questions - BTW

[Charlie Cunningham]

BTW, Jim

The Qs that you threw out for the inductor are OUTRAGEOUS!  The only reason
for raising the Q of the inductor is to reduce its losses that are going to
be pretty small across 50 ohms, even at full power. because the the voltages
and currents at the end of your feedline are going to be pretty modest, even
at full-power, or "maximum-smoke"! I would think that a Q of 30, 40, or 50
would be fine.

Regards,
Charlie,, K4OTV


-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim GM
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 1:05 PM
To: Tom W8JI
Cc: topband
Subject: Re: Topband: Hairpin Matching Coil Questions

The thing works, I mean the shunt match works.

what would be a good Q for just the coil?  300, 600, 900

Operating Q, what is the desired value?  Whats your formula for that?

Q of the operating antenna, cannot be expressed as band width equation I
see so many others use. there is another quick easy formula that, may be a
function or derivative that has some relationship, but not the number we
really want.  Not even sure if it would get every one in every situation in
the ball park.


On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 4:31 PM, Tom W8JI  wrote:

> Hi Jim,
>
> A gamma match is an arm extending out or up on the element from the
> "ground" point. It is named "gamma" because it looks like the capital
Greek
> letter called "gamma". See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Gamma
>
> A beta match is called a beta because it extends equally on each side of
> the neutral point, roughly looking like the Greek letter beta on it's side
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Beta 
>
> A hairpin match is a hairpin shaped "stub inductor", generally balanced,
> but it could be unbalanced.  It is called a hairpin because it looks like
a
> hairpin, just like a "bobby pin" spread out a little.
>
> A shunt matching component can be used, either an inductor or capacitor,
> but this is typically called shunt matching because it is a shunt
component
> across the feedpoint. It is not a hairpin unless it is in the form of a
> hairpin.
>
> Hairpins and shunt matching generally act like L networks, with the series
> reactance in the element (caused by adding or subtracting length to move
> the element away from resonance). Gamma and Beta matchs can do the same,
> use the adjustment in length away from resonance to act like a reactance,
> or the Gamma or Beta might contain a series internal component(s) so the
> element can be resonant.
>
> Q can mean many things. The style or construction of the component usually
> has little bearing on the operating Q of the system, unless you have a
> terrible matching system or component design.
>
> The Q people generally talk about in matching is almost always operating
> Q. Operating Q is generally the ratio of real parts of impedance to
> imaginary parts of impedance, or operating resistance compared to
component
> reactances in simple systems. For example a simple parallel tank circuit
> with a reactance of 500 ohms in each component shunted by 5000 ohms has an
> operating Q or loaded Q of ten. The component Q might be 300, or 3
zillion,
> and not affect operating Q significantly.
>
> The Q of components is entirely different than operating Q of a system,
> and is the ratio of reactance to resistance in a component.
>
> Q can also be used to describe bandwidth, but if the component or system
> is more complex than a single resonant L, R, and C the Q defined by
> bandwidth might not be related at all to system operating Q as defined by
> losses.
>
> When I think about all of that, and your desire for a certain coil
> conductor type for a Q of 80 for a hairpin (that doesn't use a coil by
> definition of being a hairpin), none of it makes much sense to me. The Q
of
> a very simple matching system would generally be discussed as a ratio of
> matching system reactance to resistance of the system at that matching
> point. The Q of a component in the matching system would generally be
> defined as the ratio of loss resistance to reactance of that component by
> itself.
>
> For example, a 200 ohm reactance capacitor of 0.05 ohms loss resistance in
> series with an antenna feedpoint of  50 j200 to cancel reactance and match
> the system would have a component Q of 4000 (200/.05) and an operating Q
of
> 3.996 (200/50.05). If I put in a capacitor with a reactance of 200 ohms
but
> a seres loss resistance of .5 ohms, capacitor Q would be 400. This would
> insigificantly change operating Q to 200/50.5 = 3.96.
>
> This all makes me think you have operating Q confused with component Q.
>
> Are you trying to solve some problem by reading stuff somewhere, and
> getting confused by it??? Maybe some misinformation or misunderstanding is
> making your project needlessly difficult for you to manage?
>
> 73,
> Tom
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  MFJ and Texas Instrument used this type of calculation for antenna Q.
>>
>> The other a

Re: Topband: Hairpin Matching Coil Questions

[Charlie Cunningham]

Sorry, I just looked at my own post and I see that the reflector or e-mail
changed my superscripts to lower case.

The formula is Q(squared) +1 or Q*2 +1

Sorry,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Charlie
Cunningham
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 2:44 PM
To: 'Jim GM'; 'Tom W8JI'
Cc: 'topband'
Subject: Re: Topband: Hairpin Matching Coil Questions

Hello, Jim

You seem to be "lost"!

First of all, the "thing" that you originally called a "hairpin match" is
NOT a "shunt match".  The coil, or "hairpin" is in SERIES with the reactance
and radiation resistance and copper losses of the antenna!

For the "thing" to "work" the antenna must be shortened some from its
resonant length, so that its series reactance is capacitive.

The "formula" that you are looking for is Q2+1, that is the impedance
transformation formula for an L-network. In this case the L-network is
formed by the series capacitive reactance  of the antenna element and the
shunt inductance of  the coil or "hairpin".

If your antenna looks like 25 ohms resistive at resonance, then the required
loaded Q of the network = 1, so that 25 ohms( Q2+1) = 50 ohms.

>From that we could deduce that |jXL| = 25 and |jXc| = 25.

So, you could start your design by calculating L. I believe that you would
find that it's approx. 8.8 uH.

Then shorten the antenna to resonate with that.

BUT - why not just connect the coax directly to the end of the vertical???
If it looks like 27 ohms, as you say, then the excess loss in any
reasonable, finite length of RG-8 or RG-213 over the flat-loss in the same
length of line at 1.8 MHz is negligible.  Just match the feedling in the
shack!

Sorry, but for me to derive all of the above numbers and formulas from first
principles would require more derivation, more tutorial and more  time
typing mathematical formulas, and symbols and superscripts and subscripts
than I have time for at the moment.

73,
Charlie, K4OTV



-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim GM
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 1:05 PM
To: Tom W8JI
Cc: topband
Subject: Re: Topband: Hairpin Matching Coil Questions

The thing works, I mean the shunt match works.

what would be a good Q for just the coil?  300, 600, 900

Operating Q, what is the desired value?  Whats your formula for that?

Q of the operating antenna, cannot be expressed as band width equation I
see so many others use. there is another quick easy formula that, may be a
function or derivative that has some relationship, but not the number we
really want.  Not even sure if it would get every one in every situation in
the ball park.


On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 4:31 PM, Tom W8JI  wrote:

> Hi Jim,
>
> A gamma match is an arm extending out or up on the element from the
> "ground" point. It is named "gamma" because it looks like the capital
Greek
> letter called "gamma". See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Gamma<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma>
>
> A beta match is called a beta because it extends equally on each side of
> the neutral point, roughly looking like the Greek letter beta on it's side
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Beta <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta>
>
> A hairpin match is a hairpin shaped "stub inductor", generally balanced,
> but it could be unbalanced.  It is called a hairpin because it looks like
a
> hairpin, just like a "bobby pin" spread out a little.
>
> A shunt matching component can be used, either an inductor or capacitor,
> but this is typically called shunt matching because it is a shunt
component
> across the feedpoint. It is not a hairpin unless it is in the form of a
> hairpin.
>
> Hairpins and shunt matching generally act like L networks, with the series
> reactance in the element (caused by adding or subtracting length to move
> the element away from resonance). Gamma and Beta matchs can do the same,
> use the adjustment in length away from resonance to act like a reactance,
> or the Gamma or Beta might contain a series internal component(s) so the
> element can be resonant.
>
> Q can mean many things. The style or construction of the component usually
> has little bearing on the operating Q of the system, unless you have a
> terrible matching system or component design.
>
> The Q people generally talk about in matching is almost always operating
> Q. Operating Q is generally the ratio of real parts of impedance to
> imaginary parts of impedance, or operating resistance compared to
component
> reactances in simple systems. For example a simple parallel tank circuit
> with a reactance of 500 ohms in each component shunted by 5000 ohms h

Re: Topband: Hairpin Matching Coil Questions

[Charlie Cunningham]

Hello, Jim

You seem to be "lost"!

First of all, the "thing" that you originally called a "hairpin match" is
NOT a "shunt match".  The coil, or "hairpin" is in SERIES with the reactance
and radiation resistance and copper losses of the antenna!

For the "thing" to "work" the antenna must be shortened some from its
resonant length, so that its series reactance is capacitive.

The "formula" that you are looking for is Q2+1, that is the impedance
transformation formula for an L-network. In this case the L-network is
formed by the series capacitive reactance  of the antenna element and the
shunt inductance of  the coil or "hairpin".

If your antenna looks like 25 ohms resistive at resonance, then the required
loaded Q of the network = 1, so that 25 ohms( Q2+1) = 50 ohms.

>From that we could deduce that |jXL| = 25 and |jXc| = 25.

So, you could start your design by calculating L. I believe that you would
find that it's approx. 8.8 uH.

Then shorten the antenna to resonate with that.

BUT - why not just connect the coax directly to the end of the vertical???
If it looks like 27 ohms, as you say, then the excess loss in any
reasonable, finite length of RG-8 or RG-213 over the flat-loss in the same
length of line at 1.8 MHz is negligible.  Just match the feedling in the
shack!

Sorry, but for me to derive all of the above numbers and formulas from first
principles would require more derivation, more tutorial and more  time
typing mathematical formulas, and symbols and superscripts and subscripts
than I have time for at the moment.

73,
Charlie, K4OTV



-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim GM
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 1:05 PM
To: Tom W8JI
Cc: topband
Subject: Re: Topband: Hairpin Matching Coil Questions

The thing works, I mean the shunt match works.

what would be a good Q for just the coil?  300, 600, 900

Operating Q, what is the desired value?  Whats your formula for that?

Q of the operating antenna, cannot be expressed as band width equation I
see so many others use. there is another quick easy formula that, may be a
function or derivative that has some relationship, but not the number we
really want.  Not even sure if it would get every one in every situation in
the ball park.


On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 4:31 PM, Tom W8JI  wrote:

> Hi Jim,
>
> A gamma match is an arm extending out or up on the element from the
> "ground" point. It is named "gamma" because it looks like the capital
Greek
> letter called "gamma". See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Gamma
>
> A beta match is called a beta because it extends equally on each side of
> the neutral point, roughly looking like the Greek letter beta on it's side
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Beta 
>
> A hairpin match is a hairpin shaped "stub inductor", generally balanced,
> but it could be unbalanced.  It is called a hairpin because it looks like
a
> hairpin, just like a "bobby pin" spread out a little.
>
> A shunt matching component can be used, either an inductor or capacitor,
> but this is typically called shunt matching because it is a shunt
component
> across the feedpoint. It is not a hairpin unless it is in the form of a
> hairpin.
>
> Hairpins and shunt matching generally act like L networks, with the series
> reactance in the element (caused by adding or subtracting length to move
> the element away from resonance). Gamma and Beta matchs can do the same,
> use the adjustment in length away from resonance to act like a reactance,
> or the Gamma or Beta might contain a series internal component(s) so the
> element can be resonant.
>
> Q can mean many things. The style or construction of the component usually
> has little bearing on the operating Q of the system, unless you have a
> terrible matching system or component design.
>
> The Q people generally talk about in matching is almost always operating
> Q. Operating Q is generally the ratio of real parts of impedance to
> imaginary parts of impedance, or operating resistance compared to
component
> reactances in simple systems. For example a simple parallel tank circuit
> with a reactance of 500 ohms in each component shunted by 5000 ohms has an
> operating Q or loaded Q of ten. The component Q might be 300, or 3
zillion,
> and not affect operating Q significantly.
>
> The Q of components is entirely different than operating Q of a system,
> and is the ratio of reactance to resistance in a component.
>
> Q can also be used to describe bandwidth, but if the component or system
> is more complex than a single resonant L, R, and C the Q defined by
> bandwidth might not be related at all to system operating Q as defined by
> losses.
>
> When I think about all of that, and your desire for a certain coil
> conductor type for a Q of 80 for a hairpin (that doesn't use a coil by
> definition of being a hairpin), none of it makes much sense to me. The Q
of
> a very simple ma

Re: Topband: Hairpin Matching Coil Questions

[Charlie Cunningham]

Great!

I like the spark gap and the 33K static drain much better between the
antenna and ground, that between the antenna and radials as in your first
post! I was thinking of sending you a note to that effect, but you saved me
the trouble, Mike! 

I expect that your capacitor matching network tunes rather nicely!

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Waters
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 5:51 PM
To: W2RU - Bud Hippisley; topband
Subject: Re: Topband: Hairpin Matching Coil Questions

Ok, I found the photos, and I see that I need to take new ones of the
present arrangement. But here's the capacitor values in the L network.


 - Between the 75 ohm coax center cond. and antenna: 350 pF variable,
padded with a 200 pF fixed.

 - Between the antenna and the junction of the radials and coax shield, 430
pF variable.


I used what I had available, and I forget where the capacitors are actually
set.

I think the radials are 132' long. The inverted L is 155' total, about 55'
is actually vertical. The rest slopes down to the end insulator and
counterweight through a pulley, to allow for the trees swaying in the wind.

Correction to the last post: the spark gap and 33K parallel static drain
resistor is between the antenna and ground, not between the antenna and
coax shield/radials. I thought I had photos of all that, but I couldn't
find them today.

Hope this helps.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com


On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 12:43 PM, W2RU - Bud Hippisley  wrote:

>
> On Sep 17, 2013, at 1:23 58PM, Mike Waters  wrote:
>
> > I've got some more photos and a schematic with capacitor values here, if
> > anyone is interested.
>
> Sure!  I'l like to see what works for your inverted-L.
>
> thanks!
>
> Bud, W2RU
>
>
_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Hairpin Matching Coil Questions

[Charlie Cunningham]

Should work just fine, Mike, since your inverted L is > 1/4 wavelength and
has some series inductive reactance. You're tuning out a portion of that
series inductance, leaving the remainder to work with the shunt capacitor to
form an L network to transform the resistive component of the inverted L up
to 50 ohms. Even at full power, I wouldn't expect enough voltage at the 50
ohm point to arc capacitors of any reasonable spacing!

Regards,
Charlie, K4OTV




-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Waters
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 1:24 PM
To: topband
Subject: Re: Topband: Hairpin Matching Coil Questions

I didn't read everything in this thread, but there's a good alternative to
a matching coil. On my 160m inverted-L, I just use two air variable
capacitors, and they work great. One adjusts the impedance, the other tunes
out the reactance. The interaction between them is fairly small.

Like this:
http://www.w0btu.com/files/antenna/
http://www.w0btu.com/files/antenna/Inverted-L_L-network_100_3760.JPG

One cap is in series with the coax center conductor and the antenna (a 155'
inverted-L).
The other is in parallel between the coax shield (and two 1/4 wave 10' high
elevated radials) and the point where the first cap is connected to the
antenna. They don't arc or heat up at 1500 watts, and I'm sure I could have
used caps with a smaller spacing.

There's no ground rod. And not shown is a choke made from several turns of
RG-6 feedline through 4 or 5 stacked 2.4" OD #31 ferrite cores.

I use an MFJ-259B between the coax connector and the choke. Just keep your
antenna analyzer up off the ground lying on a dry 2x4 (or other insulator)
while you're adjusting the capacitors, or you'll get screwy readings.

There's also a small spark gap in parallel with a 33K Ohmite OX resistor,
connected between the antenna and radials.

I've got some more photos and a schematic with capacitor values here, if
anyone is interested.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com
_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 129, Issue 23

[Charlie Cunningham]

Try Georgia Copper.

Their ads suggest that they may carry/supply what you are looking for.  You
might also check with some of the suppliers of antenna tuners. They seem to
use the flat wire (often silver-plated) that you are looking for.

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Grant
Saviers
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 11:47 AM
To: wa3...@comcast.net; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 129, Issue 23

Try a large transformer shop.  5kw and up transformers often use it.  
I've bought round magnet wire from temcoindustrialpower.com, but don't 
see rectangular wire on the web site, so give them a call for a link.

Grant KZ1W

On 9/15/2013 9:04 PM, n0...@juno.com wrote:
> I've just used strips of sheet copper cut with
> snips for "flat" wire.  I purchased a sheet from a
> Hobby Lobby store.  Their ads usually include a
> 20% off coupon good for just about any
> one item at their stores.
>
> 73,
> Charlie, N0TT
>   
> On Mon, 16 Sep 2013 01:39:46 + (UTC) wa3...@comcast.net writes:
>>
>> I know this may be a little off topic BUT I am looking for some
>> flat wired to wind an edge wound inductor. I am guessing that it
>> needs to be something like an eight of an inch on the narrow side by
>> maybe three eights of in inch on the long or flat side. This will
>> allow my roller wheel to ride on the inside of the inductor to
>> change inductance.
>>
>> Now for the rub.  I cant find anyone that makes wire like this.  I
>> know it is made because others have made inductors using this kind
>> of wire. Oh and it has to be silver plated if possible.
>>
>> These coils are to be part of a balanced tuner and yes I know I can
>> purchase coils but I want consistency since I am going to build
>> several of these units.
>>
>> Any and all help appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks  Jim WA3MEJ
>>
>>
>> http://www.qsl.net/wa3mej/index.htm
>> _
>> Topband Reflector
>   
>
> _
> Topband Reflector
>

_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Hairpin Matching Coil Questions - BTW

[Charlie Cunningham]

BTW, Jim

The fact that you can't get the feed-point resistance above 27 ohms, sounds
like you are just looking at the driving-point resistance of the inverted L
in parallels with the inductance of the matching coil, that is large enough
that it's out of the picture.  Can you use a grid-dip meter to see where the
inverted L is resonant with the matching coil in place?

Also, a toroid core for the matching coil would be a really bad idea for two
reasons:

1. At full power on 160, there would be several amps of RF current flowing
through the matching coil. That makes core saturation rather likely.

2. Even without core saturation, you would be burning power heating  the
toroid core, creating losses that you don't need.

73.
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim GM
Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2013 1:14 AM
To: topband
Subject: Topband: Hairpin Matching Coil Questions

I have an inverted L and using a hairpin coil to match in on 160M.

One coil is 6 inches OD the other is 2 inches OD.  I have been thinking
about making another hairpin with wire wrapped around a toroid donut,

I have noticed with the 6 inch coil I have a higher noise level on 160M and
hear BCI pretty strong on certain frequencies on other bands.

The 2 inch coil has lower noise level on 160M and BCI is reduced on other
bands.

If I use a toroid hairpin What would happen to the noise level and BCI?  My
guess is both will be reduced a bit more.

Also what hairpin matching coil should I use and why?

-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Hairpin Matching Coil Questions

[Charlie Cunningham]

Hi, Jim

I don't see why the "hairpin" matching coil should be adding BCI. The
inverted L above it should be picking much more broadcast signal than the
coil! Sounds like your matching coil may have enough inductance that it's
resonating the inverted L in the broadcast band.

The idea behind the "hairpin" match, is that the antenna is shortened a bit
and the hairpin, or matching inductor is adjusted to bring it back to
resonance at the desired matching frequency in combination with the
capacitive reactance of the shortened antenna element. (Of course, this can
require a bit of "juggling" of antenna length and matching coil inductance
to get to a 1:1 match.)

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim GM
Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2013 1:14 AM
To: topband
Subject: Topband: Hairpin Matching Coil Questions

I have an inverted L and using a hairpin coil to match in on 160M.

One coil is 6 inches OD the other is 2 inches OD.  I have been thinking
about making another hairpin with wire wrapped around a toroid donut,

I have noticed with the 6 inch coil I have a higher noise level on 160M and
hear BCI pretty strong on certain frequencies on other bands.

The 2 inch coil has lower noise level on 160M and BCI is reduced on other
bands.

If I use a toroid hairpin What would happen to the noise level and BCI?  My
guess is both will be reduced a bit more.

Also what hairpin matching coil should I use and why?

-- 
Jim K9TF
_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Delta RX Antenna @ FO0AAA

[Charlie Cunningham]

Thanks, Doug

I guess that explains why I had, in my mind, and memory, associated the
FO0AAA antenna, with John, ON4UN.  I do know that Earl, K6SE was an
authority on those types of antennas!

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Doug
Scribner
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 2:03 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: Delta RX Antenna @ FO0AAA

Here's a few notes from Earl, K6SE about the antenna...

http://www.eham.net/articles/806

He states that ON4UN built the antenna using the K6SE design. He also
references the QST article he wrote which appeared in the July 2000 issue.

Doug - K1ZO
_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: 3B9EME

[Charlie Cunningham]

Thanks, Herb!

For some reason, I thought that antenna was done by ON4UN, but Earl
certainly was an authority on those types of antennas!

73.
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Herb
Schoenbohm
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 1:04 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: 3B9EME

The FO0AAA 160 RX antenna was put together for the operation by Earl 
Cunningham (SK) K6SE.  Earl even wrote a detailed article on the design 
for QST.

Herb, KV4FZ




On 9/10/2013 10:24 AM, n0...@juno.com wrote:
> On Mon, 9 Sep 2013 22:44:45 -0400 "Charlie Cunningham"
>  writes:
>> Valid points, Keith.
>>
>> I think the boys that went to FO0AAA did good to hang up that KAZ
>> terminated
>> Loop  that John, ON4UN, put together for them!
> 
>   
> And FYIthere was no receiving amplifier used with
> that antenna on Clipperton.
>   
> 73,
> Charlie, N0TT
> 1 of 12 FO0AAA Oprs.
>
> _
> Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: 3B9EME

[Charlie Cunningham]

Hi, Herb

I went off and read from Earl's K6SE's writings about the FO0AAA low-band RX
antenna.

The following is  an excerpt from those writings:

"It is a close relative of the Pennant and Flag antennas, which are
ground-independent relatives of the Ewe. The Delta is a modification of the
"delta-shaped Ewe loop" shown in figure 7-66 on page 7-51 of ON4UN's new
Low-Band DXing book.

I took John's Delta-Ewe and, with the feedpoint and termination located at
the bottom corners of the triangle, I used EZNEC to optimize the design for
best F/B and zero reactance at 1.830 mHz. This is the design that was built
by ON4UN for use by FO0AAA."

I guess that explains why, in my mind and memory, I had associated the
antenna with John, ON4UN.

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Herb
Schoenbohm
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 1:04 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: 3B9EME

The FO0AAA 160 RX antenna was put together for the operation by Earl
Cunningham (SK) K6SE.  Earl even wrote a detailed article on the design for
QST.

Herb, KV4FZ




On 9/10/2013 10:24 AM, n0...@juno.com wrote:
> On Mon, 9 Sep 2013 22:44:45 -0400 "Charlie Cunningham"
>  writes:
>> Valid points, Keith.
>>
>> I think the boys that went to FO0AAA did good to hang up that KAZ 
>> terminated Loop  that John, ON4UN, put together for them!
> 
>   
> And FYIthere was no receiving amplifier used with that antenna on 
> Clipperton.
>   
> 73,
> Charlie, N0TT
> 1 of 12 FO0AAA Oprs.
>
> _
> Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: 3B9EME

[Charlie Cunningham]

BTW, Charlie

I did work FO0AAA on 160 CW.  03/04/2000  03:59Z, 1829 KHz

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of
n0...@juno.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 10:25 AM
To: charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: 3B9EME


On Mon, 9 Sep 2013 22:44:45 -0400 "Charlie Cunningham"
 writes:
> 
> Valid points, Keith.
> 
> I think the boys that went to FO0AAA did good to hang up that KAZ 
> terminated
> Loop  that John, ON4UN, put together for them!

 
And FYIthere was no receiving amplifier used with
that antenna on Clipperton.
 
73,
Charlie, N0TT
1 of 12 FO0AAA Oprs. 

_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: 3B9EME

[Charlie Cunningham]

Hi, Charlie

I wasn't aware that no preamp was used with the FO0AAA terminated loop.  

I have modeled the FO0AAA loop in EZNEC, and, because it has a bit more area
than my smaller, 40' X 10' KAZ terminated delta loop, it has a bit more
gain. With mine, I have used one of the old original AMECO tunable vacuum
tube preamps ahead of the RX port on the FT1000MP. Worked very well, though,
and it was a godsend on my small city lot in Raleigh with all the local
noise! It was also a great RX antenna for 80, 40 and 30m!

On my smaller lot, Ido have really tall trees, that are tall enough to
support an inverted L with 70-80 feet vertical. I just ran two elevated
resonant radials down the property lines. Had to bend one of them. I worked
a lot of good stuff around the world on 160, especially once I put  up the
terminated loop so I could hear better.

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of
n0...@juno.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 10:25 AM
To: charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: 3B9EME


On Mon, 9 Sep 2013 22:44:45 -0400 "Charlie Cunningham"
 writes:
> 
> Valid points, Keith.
> 
> I think the boys that went to FO0AAA did good to hang up that KAZ 
> terminated
> Loop  that John, ON4UN, put together for them!

 
And FYIthere was no receiving amplifier used with
that antenna on Clipperton.
 
73,
Charlie, N0TT
1 of 12 FO0AAA Oprs. 

_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: 3B9EME

[Charlie Cunningham]

Hi, Garry

I did log a QSO, with 3B9R, 4/10/1999 on 15m CW. By then, I had recovered my
original K4OTV call from 1957. Over the years, I lost the K4OTV call,
because, back then, if we moved to a different call area, we had to get a
new call for the new call area. Later, I was W3EJN, and W9MXW.

When, I returned to Raleigh, in 1978, I had been off the air  for a couple
of years, but I attended a local hamfest, and passed the written test and 20
wpm code test and upgraded to Extra, and just took the call that they
assigned me, N4BZX.

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Garry
Shapiro
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 3:06 AM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: 3B9EME

You did not say exactly how many years ago you worked Jacky on 160. In 
1999, after a DXpedition to 3B9 in which Jacky was a participant, the 
homeward-bound DXpeditioners (including myself) were at Jacky's house in 
Mauritius, standing on his roof and enjoying a beer. Jacky pointed to 
the house and lot next door and related how, before the lot was 
developed, he had used it for 160m. I don't think he has replaced that 
long-last antenna. I, already a rabid topbander, was of course 
disappointed by that turn of events.

As 3B9R, we had  erected a Titanex with 60 radials on a soccer pitch and 
had a kW. We worked lots of Europe, but only a handful of NA stations on 
the east coast, on one evening. No west coast at all.

Garry, NI6T

On 9/9/2013 6:39 PM, Charlie Cunningham wrote:
> Wow!  That's a good one!!  I worked Jacky, 3B8CF many years ago on 160,
but
> never 3B9!  Lowest bands I've ever worked 3B9 were 40 and 30 m.   I worked
> Jacky just before sunset here in Raleigh NC!  Worked him with the FT-757
GX
> that I had back then, with a GG 4-400A afterburner doing the best it could
-
> about 450 W to my inverted L with the submerged radials in the lake! :-)
>
> Charlie, K4OTV
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Mike
> Waters
> Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 9:30 PM
> To: topband
> Subject: Topband: 3B9EME
>
> 3B9EME has been calling CQ (listening up ~1) on 1822 for over an hour. But
> they can't seem to hear very well.
>
> At one time, they were S7 here in SW Missouri. Someone tell them to put up
> a Beverage antenna. :-)
>
> 73, Mike
> www.w0btu.com
> _
> Topband Reflector
>
> _
> Topband Reflector
>

_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Topband: FW: 3B9EME

[Charlie Cunningham]

-Original Message-
From: Charlie Cunningham [mailto:charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 9:24 AM
To: 'ga...@ni6t.com'
Subject: RE: Topband: 3B9EME

Hi, Garry

Well, your e-mail prompted me to look up the QSO with Jacky. It was January,
1, 1987, according to my log.  The call that I had at that time was N4BZX,
but I later recovered my old K4OTV call via the vanity call system.

I remember working 3B9R - but not on 160. 

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Garry
Shapiro
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 3:06 AM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: 3B9EME

You did not say exactly how many years ago you worked Jacky on 160. In 1999,
after a DXpedition to 3B9 in which Jacky was a participant, the
homeward-bound DXpeditioners (including myself) were at Jacky's house in
Mauritius, standing on his roof and enjoying a beer. Jacky pointed to the
house and lot next door and related how, before the lot was developed, he
had used it for 160m. I don't think he has replaced that long-last antenna.
I, already a rabid topbander, was of course disappointed by that turn of
events.

As 3B9R, we had  erected a Titanex with 60 radials on a soccer pitch and had
a kW. We worked lots of Europe, but only a handful of NA stations on the
east coast, on one evening. No west coast at all.

Garry, NI6T

On 9/9/2013 6:39 PM, Charlie Cunningham wrote:
> Wow!  That's a good one!!  I worked Jacky, 3B8CF many years ago on 160,
but
> never 3B9!  Lowest bands I've ever worked 3B9 were 40 and 30 m.   I worked
> Jacky just before sunset here in Raleigh NC!  Worked him with the 
> FT-757 GX that I had back then, with a GG 4-400A afterburner doing the 
> best it could - about 450 W to my inverted L with the submerged 
> radials in the lake! :-)
>
> Charlie, K4OTV
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of 
> Mike Waters
> Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 9:30 PM
> To: topband
> Subject: Topband: 3B9EME
>
> 3B9EME has been calling CQ (listening up ~1) on 1822 for over an hour. 
> But they can't seem to hear very well.
>
> At one time, they were S7 here in SW Missouri. Someone tell them to 
> put up a Beverage antenna. :-)
>
> 73, Mike
> www.w0btu.com
> _
> Topband Reflector
>
> _
> Topband Reflector
>

_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: 3B9EME

[Charlie Cunningham]

Valid points, Keith.

I think the boys that went to FO0AAA did good to hang up that KAZ terminated
Loop  that John, ON4UN, put together for them!

Some years ago, My friend, Jim, W4RS and I put together a dual-band 40/30m
GP for the guys that went out to KH1 - and while they were on the island,
Joe hung all sorts of vertical wires for higher bands on it! Worked well!!
It was great on 40/30!

73,
Charlie,K4OTV


-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of VE7MID
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 10:23 PM
To: 'topband'
Subject: Topband: 3B9EME

>From experience, it is easy to say, "put up a beverage". I went to 7P8D with
the idea that would be the set-up but, on site, it was impossible. There is
a difference between having years to set up a station and days with limited
material to accomplish an effective low band station. 

 

We will have conducted two site visits and are planning for contingencies
for 3DA0ET. It is annoying to be criticized by comfortable "base" stations
for efforts on top band where we must depend for the assistance of others to
put up a top band antenna system which takes more time than their muti-band
high qso rate stations! Be appreciative of the efforts of others to provide
you with a "new one"!

 

73 Keith

_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: 3B9EME

[Charlie Cunningham]

Well, I don't have a 160 transmit antenna at present time, but I do still
have the 80m GP. Might give them a try there. I worked Jacky often on 80m.

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Charlie
Cunningham
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 9:40 PM
To: 'Mike Waters'; 'topband'
Subject: Re: Topband: 3B9EME

Wow!  That's a good one!!  I worked Jacky, 3B8CF many years ago on 160, but
never 3B9!  Lowest bands I've ever worked 3B9 were 40 and 30 m.   I worked
Jacky just before sunset here in Raleigh NC!  Worked him with the FT-757 GX
that I had back then, with a GG 4-400A afterburner doing the best it could -
about 450 W to my inverted L with the submerged radials in the lake! :-)

Charlie, K4OTV


-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Waters
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 9:30 PM
To: topband
Subject: Topband: 3B9EME

3B9EME has been calling CQ (listening up ~1) on 1822 for over an hour. But
they can't seem to hear very well.

At one time, they were S7 here in SW Missouri. Someone tell them to put up
a Beverage antenna. :-)

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com
_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector