Re: Topband: Radial Question
AA6VB-Bob, Based on some good replies to "test" some under the home, a thought would be to go for it-however then install a switching arraignment for those radials under the home. Could yield in some interesting A-B results. My only experience with the ground radials was that; with the increased number of radials yielded improvement in both transmit & receive, and with certain select rigs/amplifiers it seemed to help loading up on bands such as 30-40-80-etc. Regardless just lay down as many and as long as you can, it's all good! -73- Ross U.S. Amateur Radio: KB8NTY RossRadio Antenna Ground Radial Website: http://www.rossradio.net/ + - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2014 8:04 AM Subject: Topband Digest, Vol 133, Issue 9 Send Topband mailing list submissions to topband@contesting.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/topband or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to topband-requ...@contesting.com You can reach the person managing the list at topband-ow...@contesting.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Topband digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Radial Question (Chortek, Robert L) 2. Re: Radial Question (Jim Brown) 3. Re: Radial Question (bruce whitney) 4. Re: Radial Question (Charlie Cunningham) 5. Re: Radial Question (Gary and Kathleen Pearse) 6. Re: Radial Question (Bill Stewart) 7. Re: Radial Question (Charlie Cunningham) 8. Re: Radial Question (Charlie Cunningham) 9. Re: Radial Question (Charlie Cunningham) 10. Re: Radial Question (Bill Stewart) 11. Re: Radial Question (Bill Stewart) 12. Re: Radial Question (Charlie Cunningham) 13. Preliminary Stew Results (Tree) 14. 160m L or Shunt? (Carl Braun) 15. Re: Radial Question (David Aslin) 16. Feeding 160M Vertical on 80M (Bob K6ZZ) 17. Re: Preliminary Stew Results (Jim Brown) 18. Re: Feeding 160M Vertical on 80M (Charlie Cunningham) 19. Re: Feeding 160M Vertical on 80M (Jim Brown) 20. Re: Feeding 160M Vertical on 80M (Charlie Cunningham) 21. Re: Feeding 160M Vertical on 80M (Tom W8JI) -- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2014 19:51:50 + From: "Chortek, Robert L" To: "topband@contesting.com" Subject: Topband: Radial Question Message-ID: <65020b68ca774ac2a7383a78662c9...@blupr04mb465.namprd04.prod.outlook.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello Fellow Topbanders - We are about to embark on a front yard landscaping project at our home on a tiny 12, 500 sq. ft. lot. It occurred to me this would be an excellent opportunity to put down a large number of buried ground radials BUT, they would only cover about 90 degrees of the compass. Then it also occurred to me I could put down a large number of radials in our crawl space under the house. So, my question is, what is the likely negative impact, if any, from the house being between the 160 meter vertical and the radials placed under the house? I assume the house material, most of which is wood, tile, sheetrock, etc. (with the usual house wiring) would be invisible to RF and have minimal impact. If I could put down say 60 radials ranging in length from 40 to 120 feet long, would it outperform my current system with 8 resonant elevated radials 10 -15 feet high (which cover only about 120 degrees of the compass)? I'm incline to proceed IF it would provide a meaningful improvement in my transmitted signal strength. Thanks for any help! 73, Bob/AA6VB -- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2014 13:23:41 -0800 From: Jim Brown To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Radial Question Message-ID: <52cb1edd.8020...@audiosystemsgroup.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On 1/6/2014 11:51 AM, Chortek, Robert L wrote: We are about to embark on a front yard landscaping project at our home on a tiny 12, 500 sq. ft. lot. Two things to study. N6LF has studied radial systems extensively, and written about his work in at least 8 or 10 applications notes on his website. Google to find it. For "the executive summary" of his work, and a LOT of other work by others, see the pdf of the 160M power point on my website. http://k9yc.com/publish.htm 73, Jim K9YC -- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2014 13:45:55 -0800 (PST) From: bruce whitney To: "Chortek, Robert L" , "topband@contesting.com" Subject: Re: Topband: Radial Question Message-ID: <1389044755.70500.yahoomail...@web185303.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Bob, do it... It can't?hurt the 'transmit' perfor
Re: Topband: Radial Question
My 160 vertical is right up against the house so I have used “under the house” radials for years. The basement is not finished out so I just tacked them to the floor joist with a staple gun and brought them back to a central point at a window just adjacent to the tower and drilled a hole through the window frame large enough to handle some larger wire which connected to the ground radial system. As time went on I put aluminum screen wire along the joist and connected that into the radial system. I have had this system in place over 25 years. 73 Mike K4PI _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Radial Question
I could not resist a comment - 12,500 sq. ft is tiny ??! Spare a thought for the topband community in G-land: the *average* garden (i.e the lot size less the house area) is 970 sq. ft. Many new homes have no garden. While I search for a contest/DX location, we are renting a beautiful new home - on a 'huge' 5000 sq. ft lot. So if my 160m signals are weak, listen harder - I only have room for 0.05 wavelength radials... Bob, good luck with the radials project. You will be loud... 73 Dave G3WGN M6O WJ6O --- Chortek, Robert L - Monday, January 06, 2014 6:44:03 PM Hello Fellow Topbanders - We are about to embark on a front yard landscaping project at our home on a tiny 12, 500 sq. ft. lot. It occurred to me this would be an excellent opportunity to put down a large number of buried ground radials BUT, they would only cover about 90 degrees of the compass. Then it also occurred to me I could put down a large number of radials in our crawl space under the house. So, my question is, what is the likely negative impact, if any, from the house being between the 160 meter vertical and the radials placed under the house? I assume the house material, most of which is wood, tile, sheetrock, etc. (with the usual house wiring) would be invisible to RF and have minimal impact. If I could put down say 60 radials ranging in length from 40 to 120 feet long, would it outperform my current system with 8 resonant elevated radials 10 -15 feet high (which cover only about 120 degrees of the compass)? I'm incline to proceed IF it would provide a meaningful improvement in my transmitted signal strength. Thanks for any help! 73, Bob/AA6VB _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Radial Question
Well, I'm not surprised at all, Bill! Some years back some broadcast engineers did a lot of work replacing deteriorated buried radial fields under broadcast towers with elevated resonant radials. They concluded that 4 elevated radials would do the job quite well. Their work was published in some IEEE transactions, and was based on real engineering measurements! Your inverted L with 4 elevated resonant radial should do quite well! 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bill Stewart Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 7:00 PM To: Charlie Cunningham Cc: topband@contesting.com; Robert L Chortek Subject: Re: Topband: Radial Question Charlie, I was surprised at how well my Inv L/c-poise works. It is far from an ideal situation...amongst many tall pines, but results have been very much worth the effort. I got some good info off this list and got it tuned up to where the TS-440S did not need a tuner to get a low SWR...and it receives ok too. I read about how much work/$$ guys put into the radial systems and it seems that after a point, the work just ain't worth the fraction of a db ya get. But if it makes one feel better, then keep on digging...hi. 73 de Bill K4JYS - Original Message - From: "Charlie Cunningham" To: "Bill Stewart" , "Robert L Chortek" Cc: topband@contesting.com Sent: Monday, January 6, 2014 5:52:50 PM Subject: RE: Topband: Radial Question Hi, Bill Well, I have modeled a 160 inverted L with 4 elevated resonant radials, with EXNEC, and that's about as good as it gets! Guys with grounded towers have to dig and bury radials or run 'em on the ground but the broadcasters' experience with elevated radials indicates the 4 is about as good as it gets - adding more doesn't add much. Having the resonant radials fanned over less than 360 degrees can produce sone asymmetry in the azimuth pattern, but mine with two at 90 degrees worked quite well in all directions! Generally, if I could hear 'em I could work 'em. The KAZ receiving loops helped a LOT on receive! 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bill Stewart Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 5:25 PM To: Robert L Chortek Cc: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Radial Question Hi Bob, I can't add much in the way of technical reasons for adding the radials vs a c-poise. However, I can say that my Inv. L, with a four wire quarter wave c-poise has worked quite well...and with much less work than all the radials you are considering. I use only 100 watts and have worked into the Carib. and the recent K9W operation. I also have been using a HB QRP xmtr from 1924 and have worked from C6 up into VE2/VE3. I would wonder about the possibility of 'under-the-house' radials putting rf into your house wiring, and if using your xmit antenna for rcving, picking up trash from your in-house gadgets...tv, computer etc, esp if you are running power. You may be able to get someone to model the two systems and the results might help you make up your mind. Good luck with what ever method you end up with...73 de Bill K4JYS (NC) - Original Message - From: "Robert L Chortek" To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Monday, January 6, 2014 2:51:50 PM Subject: Topband: Radial Question Hello Fellow Topbanders - We are about to embark on a front yard landscaping project at our home on a tiny 12, 500 sq. ft. lot. It occurred to me this would be an excellent opportunity to put down a large number of buried ground radials BUT, they would only cover about 90 degrees of the compass. Then it also occurred to me I could put down a large number of radials in our crawl space under the house. So, my question is, what is the likely negative impact, if any, from the house being between the 160 meter vertical and the radials placed under the house? I assume the house material, most of which is wood, tile, sheetrock, etc. (with the usual house wiring) would be invisible to RF and have minimal impact. If I could put down say 60 radials ranging in length from 40 to 120 feet long, would it outperform my current system with 8 resonant elevated radials 10 -15 feet high (which cover only about 120 degrees of the compass)? I'm incline to proceed IF it would provide a meaningful improvement in my transmitted signal strength. Thanks for any help! 73, Bob/AA6VB _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Radial Question
Charlie, I was surprised at how well my Inv L/c-poise works. It is far from an ideal situation...amongst many tall pines, but results have been very much worth the effort. I got some good info off this list and got it tuned up to where the TS-440S did not need a tuner to get a low SWR...and it receives ok too. I read about how much work/$$ guys put into the radial systems and it seems that after a point, the work just ain't worth the fraction of a db ya get. But if it makes one feel better, then keep on digging...hi. 73 de Bill K4JYS - Original Message - From: "Charlie Cunningham" To: "Bill Stewart" , "Robert L Chortek" Cc: topband@contesting.com Sent: Monday, January 6, 2014 5:52:50 PM Subject: RE: Topband: Radial Question Hi, Bill Well, I have modeled a 160 inverted L with 4 elevated resonant radials, with EXNEC, and that's about as good as it gets! Guys with grounded towers have to dig and bury radials or run 'em on the ground but the broadcasters' experience with elevated radials indicates the 4 is about as good as it gets - adding more doesn't add much. Having the resonant radials fanned over less than 360 degrees can produce sone asymmetry in the azimuth pattern, but mine with two at 90 degrees worked quite well in all directions! Generally, if I could hear 'em I could work 'em. The KAZ receiving loops helped a LOT on receive! 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bill Stewart Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 5:25 PM To: Robert L Chortek Cc: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Radial Question Hi Bob, I can't add much in the way of technical reasons for adding the radials vs a c-poise. However, I can say that my Inv. L, with a four wire quarter wave c-poise has worked quite well...and with much less work than all the radials you are considering. I use only 100 watts and have worked into the Carib. and the recent K9W operation. I also have been using a HB QRP xmtr from 1924 and have worked from C6 up into VE2/VE3. I would wonder about the possibility of 'under-the-house' radials putting rf into your house wiring, and if using your xmit antenna for rcving, picking up trash from your in-house gadgets...tv, computer etc, esp if you are running power. You may be able to get someone to model the two systems and the results might help you make up your mind. Good luck with what ever method you end up with...73 de Bill K4JYS (NC) - Original Message - From: "Robert L Chortek" To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Monday, January 6, 2014 2:51:50 PM Subject: Topband: Radial Question Hello Fellow Topbanders - We are about to embark on a front yard landscaping project at our home on a tiny 12, 500 sq. ft. lot. It occurred to me this would be an excellent opportunity to put down a large number of buried ground radials BUT, they would only cover about 90 degrees of the compass. Then it also occurred to me I could put down a large number of radials in our crawl space under the house. So, my question is, what is the likely negative impact, if any, from the house being between the 160 meter vertical and the radials placed under the house? I assume the house material, most of which is wood, tile, sheetrock, etc. (with the usual house wiring) would be invisible to RF and have minimal impact. If I could put down say 60 radials ranging in length from 40 to 120 feet long, would it outperform my current system with 8 resonant elevated radials 10 -15 feet high (which cover only about 120 degrees of the compass)? I'm incline to proceed IF it would provide a meaningful improvement in my transmitted signal strength. Thanks for any help! 73, Bob/AA6VB _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Radial Question
Hey Charlie, I'm just down the road, 'tween Smfd and Newton Grove. Waiting for the same blast of cold air...br. 73, Bill K4JYS - Original Message - From: "Charlie Cunningham" To: "Bill Stewart" , "Robert L Chortek" Cc: topband@contesting.com Sent: Monday, January 6, 2014 6:02:12 PM Subject: RE: Topband: Radial Question BTW, Biil, where U in NC? I'm in Raleigh waitin' for it to go down to 9 degrees tonight! 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bill Stewart Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 5:25 PM To: Robert L Chortek Cc: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Radial Question Hi Bob, I can't add much in the way of technical reasons for adding the radials vs a c-poise. However, I can say that my Inv. L, with a four wire quarter wave c-poise has worked quite well...and with much less work than all the radials you are considering. I use only 100 watts and have worked into the Carib. and the recent K9W operation. I also have been using a HB QRP xmtr from 1924 and have worked from C6 up into VE2/VE3. I would wonder about the possibility of 'under-the-house' radials putting rf into your house wiring, and if using your xmit antenna for rcving, picking up trash from your in-house gadgets...tv, computer etc, esp if you are running power. You may be able to get someone to model the two systems and the results might help you make up your mind. Good luck with what ever method you end up with...73 de Bill K4JYS (NC) - Original Message - From: "Robert L Chortek" To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Monday, January 6, 2014 2:51:50 PM Subject: Topband: Radial Question Hello Fellow Topbanders - We are about to embark on a front yard landscaping project at our home on a tiny 12, 500 sq. ft. lot. It occurred to me this would be an excellent opportunity to put down a large number of buried ground radials BUT, they would only cover about 90 degrees of the compass. Then it also occurred to me I could put down a large number of radials in our crawl space under the house. So, my question is, what is the likely negative impact, if any, from the house being between the 160 meter vertical and the radials placed under the house? I assume the house material, most of which is wood, tile, sheetrock, etc. (with the usual house wiring) would be invisible to RF and have minimal impact. If I could put down say 60 radials ranging in length from 40 to 120 feet long, would it outperform my current system with 8 resonant elevated radials 10 -15 feet high (which cover only about 120 degrees of the compass)? I'm incline to proceed IF it would provide a meaningful improvement in my transmitted signal strength. Thanks for any help! 73, Bob/AA6VB _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Radial Question
BTW, Biil, where U in NC? I'm in Raleigh waitin' for it to go down to 9 degrees tonight! 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bill Stewart Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 5:25 PM To: Robert L Chortek Cc: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Radial Question Hi Bob, I can't add much in the way of technical reasons for adding the radials vs a c-poise. However, I can say that my Inv. L, with a four wire quarter wave c-poise has worked quite well...and with much less work than all the radials you are considering. I use only 100 watts and have worked into the Carib. and the recent K9W operation. I also have been using a HB QRP xmtr from 1924 and have worked from C6 up into VE2/VE3. I would wonder about the possibility of 'under-the-house' radials putting rf into your house wiring, and if using your xmit antenna for rcving, picking up trash from your in-house gadgets...tv, computer etc, esp if you are running power. You may be able to get someone to model the two systems and the results might help you make up your mind. Good luck with what ever method you end up with...73 de Bill K4JYS (NC) - Original Message - From: "Robert L Chortek" To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Monday, January 6, 2014 2:51:50 PM Subject: Topband: Radial Question Hello Fellow Topbanders - We are about to embark on a front yard landscaping project at our home on a tiny 12, 500 sq. ft. lot. It occurred to me this would be an excellent opportunity to put down a large number of buried ground radials BUT, they would only cover about 90 degrees of the compass. Then it also occurred to me I could put down a large number of radials in our crawl space under the house. So, my question is, what is the likely negative impact, if any, from the house being between the 160 meter vertical and the radials placed under the house? I assume the house material, most of which is wood, tile, sheetrock, etc. (with the usual house wiring) would be invisible to RF and have minimal impact. If I could put down say 60 radials ranging in length from 40 to 120 feet long, would it outperform my current system with 8 resonant elevated radials 10 -15 feet high (which cover only about 120 degrees of the compass)? I'm incline to proceed IF it would provide a meaningful improvement in my transmitted signal strength. Thanks for any help! 73, Bob/AA6VB _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Radial Question
Hi, Bill Well, I have modeled a 160 inverted L with 4 elevated resonant radials, with EXNEC, and that's about as good as it gets! Guys with grounded towers have to dig and bury radials or run 'em on the ground but the broadcasters' experience with elevated radials indicates the 4 is about as good as it gets - adding more doesn't add much. Having the resonant radials fanned over less than 360 degrees can produce sone asymmetry in the azimuth pattern, but mine with two at 90 degrees worked quite well in all directions! Generally, if I could hear 'em I could work 'em. The KAZ receiving loops helped a LOT on receive! 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bill Stewart Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 5:25 PM To: Robert L Chortek Cc: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Radial Question Hi Bob, I can't add much in the way of technical reasons for adding the radials vs a c-poise. However, I can say that my Inv. L, with a four wire quarter wave c-poise has worked quite well...and with much less work than all the radials you are considering. I use only 100 watts and have worked into the Carib. and the recent K9W operation. I also have been using a HB QRP xmtr from 1924 and have worked from C6 up into VE2/VE3. I would wonder about the possibility of 'under-the-house' radials putting rf into your house wiring, and if using your xmit antenna for rcving, picking up trash from your in-house gadgets...tv, computer etc, esp if you are running power. You may be able to get someone to model the two systems and the results might help you make up your mind. Good luck with what ever method you end up with...73 de Bill K4JYS (NC) - Original Message - From: "Robert L Chortek" To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Monday, January 6, 2014 2:51:50 PM Subject: Topband: Radial Question Hello Fellow Topbanders - We are about to embark on a front yard landscaping project at our home on a tiny 12, 500 sq. ft. lot. It occurred to me this would be an excellent opportunity to put down a large number of buried ground radials BUT, they would only cover about 90 degrees of the compass. Then it also occurred to me I could put down a large number of radials in our crawl space under the house. So, my question is, what is the likely negative impact, if any, from the house being between the 160 meter vertical and the radials placed under the house? I assume the house material, most of which is wood, tile, sheetrock, etc. (with the usual house wiring) would be invisible to RF and have minimal impact. If I could put down say 60 radials ranging in length from 40 to 120 feet long, would it outperform my current system with 8 resonant elevated radials 10 -15 feet high (which cover only about 120 degrees of the compass)? I'm incline to proceed IF it would provide a meaningful improvement in my transmitted signal strength. Thanks for any help! 73, Bob/AA6VB _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Radial Question
Makes sense and agrees with my experience, Gary! BTW, I have worked Alaska from here in Raleigh with my 2-elevated radial Inverted L. Don't recall off-hand if it was you, I worked. 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary and Kathleen Pearse Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 5:14 PM To: topband List Subject: Re: Topband: Radial Question I'd run a test wire under the house and connect it to the rig. Listen for noise. Then connect to house ground and see if noisy. Compare that with each existing elevated radial for QRN. Here in Fairbanks anything through the home or grounded to the house or tower on 160 is worse than my ungrounded elevated radials. One elevated radial (of 8) near the power line is the noisiest. I disconnect it when it gets bad. 73, Gary NL7Y _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Radial Question
Hi Bob, I can't add much in the way of technical reasons for adding the radials vs a c-poise. However, I can say that my Inv. L, with a four wire quarter wave c-poise has worked quite well...and with much less work than all the radials you are considering. I use only 100 watts and have worked into the Carib. and the recent K9W operation. I also have been using a HB QRP xmtr from 1924 and have worked from C6 up into VE2/VE3. I would wonder about the possibility of 'under-the-house' radials putting rf into your house wiring, and if using your xmit antenna for rcving, picking up trash from your in-house gadgets...tv, computer etc, esp if you are running power. You may be able to get someone to model the two systems and the results might help you make up your mind. Good luck with what ever method you end up with...73 de Bill K4JYS (NC) - Original Message - From: "Robert L Chortek" To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Monday, January 6, 2014 2:51:50 PM Subject: Topband: Radial Question Hello Fellow Topbanders - We are about to embark on a front yard landscaping project at our home on a tiny 12, 500 sq. ft. lot. It occurred to me this would be an excellent opportunity to put down a large number of buried ground radials BUT, they would only cover about 90 degrees of the compass. Then it also occurred to me I could put down a large number of radials in our crawl space under the house. So, my question is, what is the likely negative impact, if any, from the house being between the 160 meter vertical and the radials placed under the house? I assume the house material, most of which is wood, tile, sheetrock, etc. (with the usual house wiring) would be invisible to RF and have minimal impact. If I could put down say 60 radials ranging in length from 40 to 120 feet long, would it outperform my current system with 8 resonant elevated radials 10 -15 feet high (which cover only about 120 degrees of the compass)? I'm incline to proceed IF it would provide a meaningful improvement in my transmitted signal strength. Thanks for any help! 73, Bob/AA6VB _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Radial Question
I’d run a test wire under the house and connect it to the rig. Listen for noise. Then connect to house ground and see if noisy. Compare that with each existing elevated radial for QRN. Here in Fairbanks anything through the home or grounded to the house or tower on 160 is worse than my ungrounded elevated radials. One elevated radial (of 8) near the power line is the noisiest. I disconnect it when it gets bad. 73, Gary NL7Y _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Radial Question
I'd stay with the elevated radials,Bob! They're hard to beat! For some years I had an 70 ft tall inverted L at a back corner of my lot. I had only two elevated resonant radials 90 degrees apart on the back and side lot lines . I worked lots of stuff in Eu, middle east, The Pacific, Indian and Atlantic oceans with 500W. 3B8, S7, KH6, KH5K, FO0, KH2, KH0, JA, VK, ZL, ZD9 etc.. Generally if I could hear them on my KAZ antenna, I could work 'em. BTW, if you run radials in your crawl space, you risk coupling energy into your house wiring from the close proximity radial currents. Good luck 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Chortek, Robert L Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 2:52 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Radial Question Hello Fellow Topbanders - We are about to embark on a front yard landscaping project at our home on a tiny 12, 500 sq. ft. lot. It occurred to me this would be an excellent opportunity to put down a large number of buried ground radials BUT, they would only cover about 90 degrees of the compass. Then it also occurred to me I could put down a large number of radials in our crawl space under the house. So, my question is, what is the likely negative impact, if any, from the house being between the 160 meter vertical and the radials placed under the house? I assume the house material, most of which is wood, tile, sheetrock, etc. (with the usual house wiring) would be invisible to RF and have minimal impact. If I could put down say 60 radials ranging in length from 40 to 120 feet long, would it outperform my current system with 8 resonant elevated radials 10 -15 feet high (which cover only about 120 degrees of the compass)? I'm incline to proceed IF it would provide a meaningful improvement in my transmitted signal strength. Thanks for any help! 73, Bob/AA6VB _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Radial Question
Bob, do it... It can't hurt the 'transmit' performance of your vertical at all and might help. I have done that, as well as connect my radial system to the electrical grounding of the house wiring - at the ground electrode as well. My only concern would be if you intend to use the vertical for receive it could exacerbate any noise problems you may have from the house. You will also find out in a hurry if anything in the house is sensitve to RF Bruce W8RA From: "Chortek, Robert L" To: "topband@contesting.com" Sent: Monday, January 6, 2014 2:51 PM Subject: Topband: Radial Question Hello Fellow Topbanders - We are about to embark on a front yard landscaping project at our home on a tiny 12, 500 sq. ft. lot. It occurred to me this would be an excellent opportunity to put down a large number of buried ground radials BUT, they would only cover about 90 degrees of the compass. Then it also occurred to me I could put down a large number of radials in our crawl space under the house. So, my question is, what is the likely negative impact, if any, from the house being between the 160 meter vertical and the radials placed under the house? I assume the house material, most of which is wood, tile, sheetrock, etc. (with the usual house wiring) would be invisible to RF and have minimal impact. If I could put down say 60 radials ranging in length from 40 to 120 feet long, would it outperform my current system with 8 resonant elevated radials 10 -15 feet high (which cover only about 120 degrees of the compass)? I'm incline to proceed IF it would provide a meaningful improvement in my transmitted signal strength. Thanks for any help! 73, Bob/AA6VB _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Radial Question
On 1/6/2014 11:51 AM, Chortek, Robert L wrote: We are about to embark on a front yard landscaping project at our home on a tiny 12, 500 sq. ft. lot. Two things to study. N6LF has studied radial systems extensively, and written about his work in at least 8 or 10 applications notes on his website. Google to find it. For "the executive summary" of his work, and a LOT of other work by others, see the pdf of the 160M power point on my website. http://k9yc.com/publish.htm 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Radial question
Amazing. Nano antennas aren't new but this guy presents them in an odd way, as if they form a mystical improvement to normal antennas. His starting comments are telling regarding the implied lossy nature of conventional cell phone antennas as he cites the heat as proof as the lossiness. The fact is the heat is not from the RF heating the antenna conductor but rather the antenna conductor for forming a virtual heat sink for the final amplifier of the radio! This techno babble isn't new. Dr. Lee Deforest nearly got his ass in jail I the early 20th century using his academic background to overstate early wireless possibilities. His empire went Bust eventually and he was investigated but not convicted. The so called Father of Radio had some crook in him too. by the way remember the video on the Navy's water hose antenna using the stream of conductive sea water to form an antenna element. ? Sent from my iPad On Feb 11, 2012, at 10:32, "Chortek, Robert L" wrote: > I currently use the spray on my patio, lawn and driveway as a ground system. > It works so well I took down my elevated radial system which made my XYL very > happy. Now I have a much more efficient antenna AND a much happier wife. I > have worked more DX on 160 this season than in all prior years combined! > > Next, I am going to spray it on the house and use it the vertical radiator. > If all goes as planned, I will take down my vertical after due A/B testing. > > I am also planning to spray a set of elements on the roof in lieu of a yagi. > Should work well on the high bands but have decreased performance as > frequency decreases due to it's low height. With relays, directions could be > switched instantaneously! There are always tradeoffs. > > Think of the applications for hams with antenna restrictions! > > 73 > > Bob AA6VB > > Sent from my iPad > > On Feb 11, 2012, at 7:09 AM, "Tree" wrote: > >> I have a question for the radial experts out there. >> >> If I spray this stuff on my radials - will it improve my signal on 160 >> meters? >> >> It seems that this would help my signal reach its "happy spot" and "launch >> out into space". >> >> http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/11/spray-on-antenna-revealed-best-thing-to-come-in-a-can-since-eas/ >> >> Tree N6TR >> ___ >> UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK >> > ___ > UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Radial question
I currently use the spray on my patio, lawn and driveway as a ground system. It works so well I took down my elevated radial system which made my XYL very happy. Now I have a much more efficient antenna AND a much happier wife. I have worked more DX on 160 this season than in all prior years combined! Next, I am going to spray it on the house and use it the vertical radiator. If all goes as planned, I will take down my vertical after due A/B testing. I am also planning to spray a set of elements on the roof in lieu of a yagi. Should work well on the high bands but have decreased performance as frequency decreases due to it's low height. With relays, directions could be switched instantaneously! There are always tradeoffs. Think of the applications for hams with antenna restrictions! 73 Bob AA6VB Sent from my iPad On Feb 11, 2012, at 7:09 AM, "Tree" wrote: > I have a question for the radial experts out there. > > If I spray this stuff on my radials - will it improve my signal on 160 > meters? > > It seems that this would help my signal reach its "happy spot" and "launch > out into space". > > http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/11/spray-on-antenna-revealed-best-thing-to-come-in-a-can-since-eas/ > > Tree N6TR > ___ > UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK > ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
