Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch, compared to Classic, PS and portable HD
Phil Leigh;570127 Wrote: The Touch walks over the SB3 in terms of both its digital output and analogue. If you prefer the SB3 that's fine. ymmv. Jeez Phil! You say stuff like this so often, it has to be true. :) In case anybody is missing Phil's point: The SB3 Classic only reproduces test-tones and was only ever designed to do that. Worse, it doesn't even do this very well, as both its analog output and digital input is horribly contaminated with every form of electromagnetic interference - this is of course also by purposeful design, along with its deliberate radiation-emitting circuitry skillfully created to contaminate your other components. Most embarassingly, only a select few users ever actually noticed these huge shortcomings of the SB3 - but when the Touch finally arrived, there was simply no further denying these obvious facts. The Touch is the fluent-multilingual-speaking superior to the SB3's mere baby-syllable blithering. It also makes you sterile. Ok, now there clearly can be no further doubt. :) -- NewBuyer NewBuyer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7862 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81296 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch, compared to Classic, PS and portable HD
phil leigh;570227 Wrote: i think i've only said it twice... Apologies, let me try again. (deep breath) i personally find the touch to provide a significant, but not life-changing, advance in sound quality over the sb3 via either output. This is my personal opinion, based on my ears/brain and system (and choice of music) and is backed up only in part by some measurements - which may be meaningless. Ymmv. Is that ok? :-) Yes, definitely! I was just teasin' you my friend. Thanks for always being such a good sport. ;) It's not uncommon in the various audio forums to read new Touch users saying they find the Touch to sound rather forward and uninvolving/boring in their system, compared to the SB3. Others say they personally find the Touch to sound better. Why the different opinions? Heck, I don't know - everybody's just different I guess. Myself, I really don't find the Touch to be all that big of a deal sonically compared to the SB3 or a DAC combo - I certainly do understand what the OP (Dura) is describing very well. -- NewBuyer NewBuyer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7862 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81296 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Using digital output only, should I go for the Touch or spend $1000 on a Transporter
iPhone;559117 Wrote: If you can buy a Transporter for $1000 and have the money, buy a Transporter. You will not regret it. You might even prefer the Transporter's DAC over your external. If you really like the sound of your current external DAC and are only looking for a digital transport and don't have to have the best, then the Touch is the obvious choice. The Touch really narrowed the space between the SB3 and the Transporter on the Digital Coax side. So if you don't need that extra 10 or 15% then buy the Touch and save $700. For me its a much harder game as to when to use Transporter as a digital transport only. On the low end DACs, there comes a point where in my opinion using a Transporter is over kill (read one should be using the TP without a DAC instead) to feed an external DAC. Conversely it gets to a point that the external DAC is very expensive and very good and should be feed by a Transporter. So for me it comes down to available money and really how good the external DAC is. +1 (Nicely said iPhone) -- NewBuyer NewBuyer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7862 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80128 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Why does (digital out) sound quality differ between Touch and Duet?
JohnSwenson;553741 Wrote: ...I have taken a stock SB3 and replaced the clock oscillators with ones that have been measured on the very expensive systems to have about 3 times lower jitter than the stock ones. The analog outs sounded significantly better with this change. Nothing else changed... Its far stickier with S/PDIF out... There are several methods for decreasing jitter sensitivity which actually produce fairly high levels of jitter themselves... make everything sound pretty good approach, but that limits the performance when fed by a really good source. Unfortunately no manufacturer is going to TELL you that!.. Hi John, When you get a chance, I am very curious please: How difficult/expensive was it, to replace the SB3 clock oscillator(s)? Also please, generally what are some of those currently used methods/approaches you're thinking about for decreasing interface jitter sensitivity, that also produce high levels of their own jitter? -- NewBuyer NewBuyer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7862 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79500 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Power plug position
JohnSwenson;549005 Wrote: ...The current flowing through the interconnect shield will induce a small voltage across the shield, and since at the far end of the cable the input circuit sees the voltage between the center pin and the shield, the noise voltage developed across the shield is added the the signal you want and gets amplified along with it. You can get rid of this affect by using balanced interconnects because the signal the receiver sees has nothing to do with the voltage on the shield. I'm pretty sure this is why people like balanced better, its not that the balanced system picks up less noise on the signal wires, but because its immune to ground current noise on the shield... In addition to using balanced interconnects when possible, I believe introducing great quality line-level transformers can be a solution too - even when using unbalanced interconnects. Both methods defeat the potential ground loop on the signal line, balance the impedences of the pos/neg signal lines, and also provide much better EMI/RFI noise immunity (as I understand it - please do correct me if I'm mistaken). -- NewBuyer NewBuyer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7862 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78959 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Why does (digital out) sound quality differ between Touch and Duet?
SuperQ;553493 Wrote: My vote is it's all in their head. There is a theoretical audibility of clock jitter (which is improved in the Touch). But nobody has been able to demonstrate this in any repeatable way that I'm aware of. It would be really interesting to put a Touch and a Duet in your system and use Audio DiffMaker (http://www.libinst.com/Audio%20DiffMaker.htm) to measure the analog output of your DACmagic. In theory there may be some difference, but DiffMaker will prove it. I think SuperQ makes a good point here, and DiffMaker would be a great way to test. I think that sometimes people can have a tendency to think a more recent equipment design must somehow be better in practice (sound better in this case) - and this underlying assumption can thus provide a source of bias, and a very convincing placebo effect... -- NewBuyer NewBuyer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7862 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79500 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Disable WLAN on Squeezebox Touch
Mnyb;547927 Wrote: ...death ray... waste of time... messy... unnecessary options... just work probably best... illogical... new age loonies... superstition and medieval darkness... irrational... 1000's of things 1000 times more dangerous... Mynb, you are hilarious! :) At first I thought you accidentally left out old fashioned in your rant, but then I saw the medieval part. So I suppose the people who wish to disable wifi, must therefore be both medieval and new-age? ;) I certainly hope Logitech doesn't think about this like you do! Now just imagine, if only you could turn your ridicule powers toward the service of good... :D -- NewBuyer NewBuyer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7862 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76291 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Disable WLAN on Squeezebox Touch
Peter314;539892 Wrote: Have you checked the latest research..? http://miscellanea.wellingtongrey.net/comics/2007-05-27--the-truth-about-wireless-devices.png Haven't seen that particular comic in a while! Ridicule-tactics are, if nothing else, at least sometimes creative and humorous. :) These types of comics usually at least under their surface suggest/assume, that science is God-like with all knowledge and already knows or has established -everything possible- about the thing in question. Sometimes they also implicitly suggest that product designers and marketers are scientists concerned for your health, who _obviously_ would NEVER try to sell you something possibly dangerous! So anybody who is ever concerned, must be ignorant/irrational/crazy etc :D On a less funny note: I remember seeing similar (perhaps even early versions of the same) comics used, to ridicule people concerned about the possible cumulative unhealthy effects of tobacco (and still earlier, for asbestos...) Sometimes you also see marketers, or such ridicule-comics, making fun of concerned consumers by portraying them as older or mature (or at least somehow old-fashioned), and therefore(!) somehow childish or stupid. Hey after all, why not just buy things now and think later - after all, you your family all have good health insurance, don't you? ;) -- NewBuyer NewBuyer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7862 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76291 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Disable WLAN on Squeezebox Touch
Phil Leigh;540781 Wrote: Defective cars can kill and injure people... But they weren't deliberately designed to be defective. It was an accident. A Wi-FI product is DESIGNED to use wi-fi. Most (portable) Wi-FI products don't have an alternative connection option. Therefore, not providing an obvious option to disable the WI-FI on a WI-FI product cannot be considered negligence or an accidental design oversight and should not be discussed in the same breath. Is my point. Hi Phil, FWIW, I see your point and (as usual) you seem to make good sense. However, of course the other recent currently-branded Logitech products in the Squeezebox family line, also have both connection options and -do- auto-powerdown the wifi connection with wired use. So,... Oh well. :) Personally I hope Logitech will soon say something on the matter, and/or better still, put an appropriate wifi-poweroff option in the Touch user menus. Especially, since there are some incredibly talented people in this thread that have already found some promising hacks, that seem to prove it can be properly done. I wish Logitech would pay you guys for doing that (or at least give you free Touch's, we could call it further beta-test!) ;) -- NewBuyer NewBuyer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7862 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76291 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] My thoughts on the sound quality of the Touch
I also noticed a nice sonic improvement via toslink transmission when using a glass-fiber cable instead of plastic (thanks again to John S. who originally helped me to discover this). For SB3 users: Since the SB3's coax digital-out apparently suffers from its internal EMI supression filter (a filter which apparently the Touch doesn't have/need), I wonder if using optical out can help overcome that issue... -- NewBuyer NewBuyer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7862 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77649 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Disable WLAN on Squeezebox Touch
For anyone who wants to permanently disable wifi from the Touch: Would it perhaps be just as easy to just open it up, and remove an internal wifi card? Does anybody know please, if this is even possible with the Touch? Please, does anybody know the answer to these? -- NewBuyer NewBuyer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7862 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76291 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Disable WLAN on Squeezebox Touch
For anyone who wants to permanently disable wifi from the Touch: Would it perhaps be just as easy to just open it up, and remove an internal wifi card? Does anybody know please, if this is even possible with the Touch? -- NewBuyer NewBuyer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7862 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76291 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Disable WLAN on Squeezebox Touch
mfw;530322 Wrote: Doing a Toyota? I suppose that could be it. :) I guess only Phil can say if that part of Valentino's post is what got to him. Well, I guess it's (hopefully) possible Logitech -might- install a future menu item that would be able to completely shut off the wifi - especially since John S seems to have found a way to hack it via code approach (even though, as he says, it won't persist between power cycles). If they do this, I will almost certainly buy a Touch (or two)... -- NewBuyer NewBuyer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7862 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76291 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Disable WLAN on Squeezebox Touch
Phil Leigh;529968 Wrote: It wasn't the OP who provoked that response, it was this post: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=526440postcount=11 This is the sort of hyperbolic twaddle we could do without on this - or indeed any - forum IMO. Hey Phil - Valentino's post seems fine to me too - what's the issue? -- NewBuyer NewBuyer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7862 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76291 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Disable WLAN on Squeezebox Touch
erland;527757 Wrote: ...However, I can't say I've so far remembered any WiFi waves... That's because they killed those particular brain cells along the way. You shouldn't worry about it though, since you will forget all about this by tomorrow... ;) -- NewBuyer NewBuyer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7862 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76291 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Disable WLAN on Squeezebox Touch
JohnSwenson;526546 Wrote: The Touch DOES do a form of shutting down the wifi radio if that connection is not being used, but that does not necessarily completely disable the radio. If you have a USB or SD card plugged in they are being shared via samba and that might still be accessed via wifi from another device even if the touch's player is currently being fed from a wire. So the wifi is still there but not doing much. Every so often it keeps track of whats out there and if any body wants to connect. The command I gave shuts it down completely, period. John S. Hi John Swenson - I too am grateful for the extremely helpful information. Thanks! To Mozart Puccini - Like you (and many others), I prefer to minimize these exposures in my home - there is nothing wrong with that, especially when children are involved. Try to have a sense of humor with some of the other posts around here - it's just a convenient way that some people express their opinion. After all, it is actually kind of an amusing simple line of reasoning, don't you agree? If something's popular, legal, and can't be perceived with the senses, then it clearly must be _absolutely_ _exactly_ identical to all else that fits that same description, and therefore must -obviously- be perfectly ok and fine - right? I hope so! :D -- NewBuyer NewBuyer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7862 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76291 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Temperature sensor in Touch?
toby10;525803 Wrote: Well the Clapper Plugin is still in Beta. It works fine until you play a live performance with an enthusiastic audience between music sets. Then the Touch menus jump around and usually ends up deep in the Diagnostics menu. That and hitting my dog with a rolled up newspaper when he pees on my couch ALWAYS ends up with the Touch switching to Donny Marie's Puppy Love. This is UNACCEPTABLE! :) Ha! Maybe your puppy is actually punishing -you- and you didn't yet realize this. :) Well, so there is a microphone in the Touch, and it was apparently only put there in anticipation of such a plugin - is that right? Seems an odd thing somehow... -- NewBuyer NewBuyer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7862 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=74953 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Temperature sensor in Touch?
toby10;519436 Wrote: For the Clapper Plugin. You must be joking, right? :D -- NewBuyer NewBuyer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7862 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=74953 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Temperature sensor in Touch?
aubuti;517134 Wrote: As far as I know it hasn't been enabled yet. But why does the Touch even contain a microphone at all? Just wondering... -- NewBuyer NewBuyer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7862 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=74953 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Temperature sensor in Touch?
aubuti;515709 Wrote: I don't remember ever seeing a temperature sensor mentioned (though there is a microphone...) Just curious: What is the microphone for? -- NewBuyer NewBuyer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7862 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=74953 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Powered speakers for Touch
You might also consider the 'NHT M-00's' (http://www.nhthifi.com/NHT-M00?sc=12category=1213). These are great acoustic suspension powered monitors that also have auto-on capability. -- NewBuyer NewBuyer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7862 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=74658 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Can't wait any longer........
badlyread;498836 Wrote: ...you should be thinking of an external DAC at some point. May I recommend... Well, since the OP already has a Touch on pre-order: Perhaps waiting to see how it sounds first, before ordering any external DACs, would be worthwhile. :) -- NewBuyer NewBuyer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7862 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72966 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
