Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
Mnyb wrote: the rate of bugfixing is low to non existing nowadays when the product is eol Well, my point was that this is a problem common to multiple squeezebox/now Logitech devices, including a brand new UE Radio I tried out briefly. Guess this isn't the appropriate forum/thread, but thought I'd post a followup in case someone did a search of the archives looking for a solution to this horrible problem. :D lugnutz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17146 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
Just to follow up on this issue, which apparently still exists... After having the same horrible screech when transitioning between 44 and 48KHz sample rates for both my touch (for both digital and analog output), UE radio and radio, it finally dawned on me that the problem is with the crossfade feature. Logitech should really add a quick check in the crossfade code to verify whether the sample rate is the same, and if not disable the crossfade for that transition. Otherwise the listener's suffering is quite legendary. lugnutz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17146 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
lugnutz wrote: Just to follow up on this issue, which apparently still exists... After having the same horrible screech when transitioning between 44 and 48KHz sample rates for both my touch (for both digital and analog output), UE radio and radio, it finally dawned on me that the problem is with the crossfade feature. Logitech should really add a quick check in the crossfade code to verify whether the sample rate is the same, and if not disable the crossfade for that transition. Otherwise the listener's suffering is quite legendary. The product is EOL Logitech ain't gonna give it active support. It's a great pity that such a revolutionary piece of kit is on the receiving end of such corporate apathy, but that's the way it is. Chris :) Stratmangler's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=20387 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
lugnutz wrote: Just to follow up on this issue, which apparently still exists... After having the same horrible screech when transitioning between 44 and 48KHz sample rates for both my touch (for both digital and analog output), UE radio and radio, it finally dawned on me that the problem is with the crossfade feature. Logitech should really add a quick check in the crossfade code to verify whether the sample rate is the same, and if not disable the crossfade for that transition. Otherwise the listener's suffering is quite legendary. That would be it , just disable xfade . It would not get better with 96 or 88.2 content . It cant possibly work so disabling xfade for transitions beteende sample rates is a good idea ! post the idea in bugzilla , the rate of bugfixing is low to non existing nowadays when the product is eol , but the idea is worth documenting and share . On topic again , some DAC's or reciever pops when shifting sample rate some mute when they do this , nothing to do with the squeezbox ? Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
Mnyb wrote: I have no such issues going to another sample rate , must be Yamaha specific ? I have a Yamaha receiver and have no issues when changing sample rates, using digital input. Must be something else. rayman1701's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41326 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
Hate to dust off such an old thread, but thought this might be relevant/related... I've noticed when my Touch goes from a 44.1kHz mp3 to a 48kHz one, we get about 1-2 seconds of wickedly loud white noise/screech between tracks. Sometimes we get a shorter, quieter similar screech when going back from 48kHz to 44.1kHz. It's really, really unnerving. Touch is connected to a Yamaha RX-V673, and other than the screech during the transition, both sample rates play fine. server is 7.7.2, touch firmware is 7.7.2 as well. lugnutz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17146 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
lugnutz wrote: Hate to dust off such an old thread, but thought this might be relevant/related... I've noticed when my Touch goes from a 44.1kHz mp3 to a 48kHz one, we get about 1-2 seconds of wickedly loud white noise/screech between tracks. Sometimes we get a shorter, quieter similar screech when going back from 48kHz to 44.1kHz. It's really, really unnerving. Touch is connected to a Yamaha RX-V673, and other than the screech during the transition, both sample rates play fine. server is 7.7.2, touch firmware is 7.7.2 as well. This would be entirely related to how the DAC in the Yamaha is handling the change from one rate to another. Some DACs handle this just fine and as you have discovered, some do not. Not anything I'm aware of on the TOUCH or LMS side that can solve your problem. You could connect the TOUCH to your Yamaha with analog outs from the TOUCH and that should avoid the noise between tracks. Then you're using the TOUCH's DAC instead of the Yamaha DAC, but the TOUCH DAC is actually pretty good. garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
lugnutz wrote: Hate to dust off such an old thread, but thought this might be relevant/related... I've noticed when my Touch goes from a 44.1kHz mp3 to a 48kHz one, we get about 1-2 seconds of wickedly loud white noise/screech between tracks. Sometimes we get a shorter, quieter similar screech when going back from 48kHz to 44.1kHz. It's really, really unnerving. Touch is connected to a Yamaha RX-V673, and other than the screech during the transition, both sample rates play fine. server is 7.7.2, touch firmware is 7.7.2 as well. I have no such issues going to another sample rate , must be Yamaha specific ? Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
I have a Squeezebox Touch playing FLAC running a post-7.6 firmware connected to a NAD T747. The problem I have is that the receiver seems incapable of resolving the Squeezebox's digital silence, and so it loses lock and then clips off the first few instants of the following song. I can see this happening because of the PCM status on the amp going on and off between tracks terminated with silence (some of those DDD recordings have no hiss at all between tracks). I've temporarily averted this by using RCA analogue cables, but all told I'd prefer to use the receiver's DAC. This happens over coaxial and optical, so it likely isn't a cable issue. It doesn't happen with the original CDs playing over an S/PDIF connection from my Pioneer DVD player. Could the Squeezebox be handling zero amplitude PCM in a non-standard or non-optimal way? What is the best way to keep the connection live? I don't mind fixing the output at 44.1. -- Ladyfingers Ladyfingers's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=48645 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
I wanted to eliminate my DAC as the possible source of this noise so I turned it off and unplugged it. I then listened to the Touch output in two ways: 1. via TOSLINK on wireless headphones the base of which have an internal DAC 2. via headphones on the analog headphone jack. In both cases I heard the same noises as when my DAC was in the chain: My Touch makes a noise via outboard DAC that my older Classic did not. When I start playing something (FLAC, internet radio, Rhapsody) and when whatever I am playing stops -- or when I switch between radio stations or between albums -- I hear a very slight electronic tick or crackle. It's barely audible but definitely there. Like a circuit opening or closing. This happens whether I am connected via coax or optical digital. The most obvious place I hear this noise is when skipping track-to-track on 24/96 files: 100% repeatable. If you are on SBS 7.5.2 / Touch Firmware 9218, will you let me know if you also hear any such noises? I'd like to confirm my Touch is defective if that is the case so I can address it. Also, if you once heard these noises and eliminated them by moving to a newer SBS or firmware please post back! Thanks. -- Apesbrain Apesbrain's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=738 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
Phil Leigh;597925 Wrote: What DAC do you have? I have a CAL Alpha 24/96 connected via coax (Blue Jeans/Belden) or optical (Kimber). -- Apesbrain Apesbrain's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=738 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
My Touch makes a noise via outboard DAC that my older Classic did not. When I start playing something (FLAC, internet radio, Rhapsody) and when whatever I am playing stops I hear a very slight electronic tick or crackle. It's barely audible but definitely there. Like a circuit opening or closing. This happens whether I am connected via coax or optical digital. It also appears to be intermittent and more likely to happen just after I've switched the Touch out of standby. I am on SBS 7.5.2 Windows. -- Apesbrain Apesbrain's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=738 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
Apesbrain;597844 Wrote: Phil, it surely could be but curious why I'm hearing it now with the Touch and not with Classic formerly in same position as the Touch. Nothing else has changed. Muting circuit in my DAC reacts differently to the S/PDIF on the Touch? Depends what the Touch is sending in the inter-track gaps vs the SB3... They SHOULD both be sending digital silence or zeroes. This is managed in their respective firmwares. What DAC do you have? -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
Mnyb;597095 Wrote: It should be gone ? http://svn.slimdevices.com/jive?view=revisionrevision=9061 But there is one occasion that cant be fixed it is when the Touch actually is going to change samplerate going to and from different rates and some DAC's react to that with a pop. But it should no longer revert to 44.1 between 96k tracks for example . But the bug should be closed as fixed ? or maybe it lacks some testing It is definitely gone on the Touch when playing FLAC's (and has been gone for a while now), in that sample rate no longer reverts to the default between tracks. Some DAC's pop anyway on a sample rate change - this is a DAC design issue, rather than something that can be fixed on the Touch. However, I see from the bug report there may be an outstanding issue with WAV-to-FLAC transitions? -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
Can someone please comment on their current experience with this issue? Although some have reported above that the problem went away after update to 7.6 beta, it is still open as a 'bug' (http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16146) and is not listed as having been addressed in the 'changelog' (http://svn.slimdevices.com/repos/slim/7.6/trunk/server/Changelog7.html). -- Apesbrain Apesbrain's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=738 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
It should be gone ? http://svn.slimdevices.com/jive?view=revisionrevision=9061 But there is one occasion that cant be fixed it is when the Touch actually is going to change samplerate going to and from different rates and some DAC's react to that with a pop. But it should no longer revert to 44.1 between 96k tracks for example . But the bug should be closed as fixed ? or maybe it lacks some testing -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH and assorted amps SiriuS, Classe' Primare and Dynadio speakers, Contour 4 Contour Center, and Contour 1.3SE rear ch. Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) PLEASE FIX BUG 112 http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=112 Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16146#c17 A fix was in 2 days ago it is in the latest 7.6 beta . My DAC does not exhibit the problem , so it can not report any difference -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 and assorted amps SiriuS, Classe' Primare and Dynadio speakers, Contour 4 Contour Center, and Contour 1.3SE for the rear ch. Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Miscellaneous use: Radio (with battery) I use a Controller various ir-remotes and a Eee-PC with squeezeplay to control this Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
JohnSwenson;572145 Wrote: What firmware are you using? John S. Hi, I am using 9066 Paal -- paalj paalj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37761 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
It is finally working. Thanks. -- paalj paalj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37761 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
paalj;572082 Wrote: It is finally working. Thanks. What firmware are you using? John S. -- JohnSwenson JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
No update on the bug report yet... all gone rather quiet - it would be nice to get this fixed. If you haven't voted please do so. http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16146 -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
Tonight I tried the fix I'd found and it does work, no switching to 44.1 between hi sample rate tracks. Unfortunately its in the C code so it will have to be in a future firmware release. You can't just patch it with the Patch Installer. John S. -- JohnSwenson JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
JohnSwenson;541864 Wrote: Tonight I tried the fix I'd found and it does work, no switching to 44.1 between hi sample rate tracks. Unfortunately its in the C code so it will have to be in a future firmware release. You can't just patch it with the Patch Installer. John S. Cool! I assume that if one had a playlist of 24/94, 16/44.1, 24/88.2, 24/48 etc. that it would also all work Ok/? I'm concerned that that bit of code to stitch to 44.1 was there for a reason -- ziggyb63 ziggyb63's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11682 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
JohnSwenson;541864 Wrote: Tonight I tried the fix I'd found and it does work, no switching to 44.1 between hi sample rate tracks. Unfortunately its in the C code so it will have to be in a future firmware release. You can't just patch it with the Patch Installer. John S. Thanks for your efforts John. This was good news!. Hopefully it will be in a near future firware release :-) Paal -- paalj paalj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37761 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
Phil Leigh;541216 Wrote: I'm pretty sure your gap problem is indeed a different issue. I've not seen any gapless problem at 88.2/96, and I've seen no other reports. What server hardware are you using? It turns out there is no gap problem. I was using source material which had a tiny bit of silence at the beginning of each track! I opened them up in an editor and there it was. I tested 24/96 with several different files, some I created myself, some from HDtracks, and there is no gap problem. Sorry for muddying the waters; it's a weird fluke that these files had these bits of silence in them. I have updated the bug report to reflect my new discovery. -- Leigh Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10619 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
Phil Leigh;541216 Wrote: I'm pretty sure your gap problem is indeed a different issue. I've not seen any gapless problem at 88.2/96, and I've seen no other reports. What server hardware are you using? Yeah, I have just managed to test this, but I do not get any gapless issues with 24/96 either... -- ziggyb63 ziggyb63's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11682 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
ziggyb63;541324 Wrote: Yeah, I have just managed to test this, but I do not get any gapless issues with 24/96 either... Hmm, weird. I am at work now but will do more testing later and see if I can figure out what's going on. I'm using a very hefty system for the server so it's not a CPU issue. I'm also running the latest server software. The gaps are very short, probably 1/5 of a second or so. -- Leigh Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10619 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
Phil Leigh;541213 Wrote: Does anyone have a DAC with a lock/rate display that does not seem to detect this problem? This bug now has 6 votes... http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16146 I don't see this symptom with my MeridianG68J It shows 96K between tracks . I voted anyway because this is core functionality, it should play music . I'm using the latest 7.6 if that's of any consequence -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J and assorted amps SiriuS, Classe'Primare and Dynadio speakers (including a pair of Contour 4 ) Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Miscellaneous use: Radio (with battery) I use a Controller various ir-remotes and a Eee-PC with squeezeplay to control this Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
Leigh;541393 Wrote: Hmm, weird. I am at work now but will do more testing later and see if I can figure out what's going on. I'm using a very hefty system for the server so it's not a CPU issue. I'm also running the latest server software. The gaps are very short, probably 1/5 of a second or so. I have to admit I only have one 24/96 gapless FLAC album to test with, and I converted to WAV to FLAC myself with FooBar2000 (-0 option), but it plays perfectly... BTW, I am running a nightly 7.5.1 - r30657 @ Sat Apr 17 01:08:36 PDT 2010 with 7.5.1-r8732 firmware on the Touch, as I was experiencing the faad.exe issue with 7.5.0 which 7.5.1. fixed... -- ziggyb63 ziggyb63's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11682 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
Voted - I an confirm I also see ths on my Touch + DAC Magic. Although I don't get popping/clicking/etc - just a flicker of the signal indicator light when moving from one 24/48 track to another. -- androidtopp My SB3 is now the least expensive part of my stereo. So I have that going for me. Which is nice. And let's put it more impressively - my SBB is the most expensive clock currently sitting on my nightstand. http://www.last.fm/user/androidtopp androidtopp's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=19681 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
slate;540790 Wrote: I have followed this thread with interest although not a Touch owner. My Duet is optical connected with my Caiman DAC and I get a short twirp sound when tracks are changing. Standard redbook into FLAC. If the Duet keeps the signal rate going between tracks should this not only happend when I initially starts playing something?! I bought the Caiman DAC this christmas and didn't notice the twirp at first. I guess that I have to take an evening pulling cables and check this out and then write Stanley B about it. Found the following tidbit on techradar that could explain it as a Caiman problem: Care in component selection extends to the use of reed relays for muting. The possible drawback of these is that they take a finite time to operate when a track opens rapidly from 'digital black', but Beresford has ingeniously included enough time delay to allow for this, so you don't actually miss any music (it would only be a milli-second or two, but the audible result can be an annoying click) Well I think I'd rather have regular FET switches for muting than reed relays - they are faster! - but IMO this is a red herring. There are two things here: 1) DAC's need a muting ciruit to prevent rubbish being sent out when clock lock is lost. The muting circuit should NOT engage when sample rate changes - only if there is no clock... 2) The Touch should never NOT send a clock. Let's see what happens to the bug... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
Phil Leigh;539823 Wrote: Thanks Struts - you've been a great help. I've just been testing this on my system but of course I have a TACT (with ASRC) betwixt Touch and DAC so the DAC never loses lock from the TACT. I can flick around between any tracks without issue. Now what we need is someone from Logitech to comment on why the Touch is behaving differently to the other devices... Phil, Thanks for your help with this issue. Did you report this as a bug or do we wait for a comment from logitech in this thread ? As it is now I cannot use my Touch on hirez material. I might have to return it to the shop. Paal -- paalj paalj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37761 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
paalj;540534 Wrote: Phil, As it is now I cannot use my Touch on hirez material. Why? Also, anything stopping you from calling support or opening a bug? -- pounce pounce's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12645 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
pounce;540536 Wrote: Why? Also, anything stopping you from calling support or opening a bug? 1) because he has a type of DAC that has an issue switching rapidly from 96-44.1-96 - some DACs do that. It seems that the Touch - unlike other models - reverts to 44.1 between tracks, whereas I think the other devices hold the last used sample rate until a new one arrives...I can't check on that at the moment - hands full with other stuff. 2) No! - PaalJ you need to raise a bug, referencing this thread. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
I acknowledge the issue, but the Touch is still working for hirez material so I'm not sure it's correct to say I cannot use my Touch on hirez material. He can, but it's not ideal. -- pounce pounce's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12645 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
pounce;540536 Wrote: Why? Also, anything stopping you from calling support or opening a bug? Because my power amps is directly connected to my DAC and the pop's and clicks is damaging my speakers. If needed I will call support, but if it already is confirmed as a bug. It should not be necesary. As you can see I am a junior member and need some time to learn how to open a bug. -- paalj paalj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37761 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
pounce;540542 Wrote: I acknowledge the issue, but the Touch is still working for hirez material so I'm not sure it's correct to say I cannot use my Touch on hirez material. He can, but it's not ideal. I'm starting to see where your forum name comes from... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
paalj;540545 Wrote: As you can see I am a junior member and need some time to learn how to open a bug. Please let us know when\if you enter this bug, we will vote for it. Also happens on my Benchmark DAC-1 connected via digital coax; actually the red error light briefly lights up when skipping to the next 24/96 track, indicating loss of lock - no popping though. -- ziggyb63 ziggyb63's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11682 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
I have a Cambridge DacMagic and always get a brief gap between FLAC and WAV files at 24/88.1 and 24/96 when one track ends and the next begins. This is separate from the stuttering issue which appears to be CPU related and is discussed in another thread (I get this brief dropout for all combinations of FLAC/WAV and wired/wireless connectivity for 44.1 kHz files). I do not see the light change on my DAC when it segues from the end of one track to the beginning of the next (and I get the brief gap); however, when I use the key to jump ahead to the next track, I do see the light jump to 44.1 on the DAC briefly. I will sign on to the bugreport if it's useful to folks. Hopefully this one can be fixed easily, it is quite a bummer to not have gapless with hirez. -- Leigh Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10619 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
ziggyb63;540627 Wrote: Please let us know when\if you enter this bug, we will vote for it. Also happens on my Benchmark DAC-1 connected via digital coax; actually the red error light briefly lights up when skipping to the next 24/96 track, indicating loss of lock - no popping though. I'll vote too - I've just activated a different menu on my TACT and I can see the rate dropping to either 44.1 or sometimes no lock when skipping between 24/96 files. Doesn't do this at other rates. Fortunately I don't have the DAC problem as the TACT keeps a permanent outbound lock at 24/96 regardless of what is coming in... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
ziggyb63;540627 Wrote: Please let us know when\if you enter this bug, we will vote for it. Also happens on my Benchmark DAC-1 connected via digital coax; actually the red error light briefly lights up when skipping to the next 24/96 track, indicating loss of lock - no popping though. OK, hope this is correct: http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16146 If not, I am quite sure I will get a message :-) -- paalj paalj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37761 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
paalj;540658 Wrote: OK, hope this is correct: http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16146 If not, I am quite sure I will get a message :-) Voted and added my 2C! -- ziggyb63 ziggyb63's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11682 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
paalj;540658 Wrote: OK, hope this is correct: http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16146 If not, I am quite sure I will get a message :-) Thanks Paalj - voted and expanded -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
Does SC even consider the rate of the next song to play? What if you were running random or shuffle with a mix of rates? How do we expect the unit to handle going from 96/24 to 44/15 and back? So is this a bug or an enhancement request? -- pounce pounce's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12645 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
pounce;540670 Wrote: Does SC even consider the rate of the next song to play? What if you were running random or shuffle with a mix of rates? How do we expect the unit to handle going from 96/24 to 44/15 and back? So is this a bug or an enhancement request? It should keep the rate of the inter-track digital silence the same as the PREVIOUSLY playing track. Not the next one! That way there will be at most only one rate change, not two in quick succession as at present. The other players work this way AFAICT. It's a bug. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
[SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
Can someone with a Touch and a DAC with a signal lock indicator confirm that lock is maintained via digital silence when skipping between tracks? I thought it was, but another thread suggests otherwise and that non-Touch devices behave differently? -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
The s-Lock LED on my Grace m902 lights as soon as the S/PDIF cable is plugged in even if nothing is playing. -- struts struts's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14057 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
struts;539752 Wrote: The s-Lock LED on my Grace m902 lights as soon as the S/PDIF cable is plugged in even if nothing is playing. If you have two 48kHz tracks, could you try to skip between these two tracks and listen if you get any noise? -- paalj paalj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37761 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
paalj;539754 Wrote: If you have two 48kHz tracks, could you try to skip between these two tracks and listen if you get any noise? I don't but I can make some. It will have to wait until later though as I am on family duties. I don't get any noise between 44.1kHz tracks though, any reason to suspect it would be different with 48kHz? -- struts struts's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14057 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
struts;539763 Wrote: I don't but I can make some. It will have to wait until later though as I am on family duties. I don't get any noise between 44.1kHz tracks though, any reason to suspect it would be different with 48kHz? Many dacs default to 44.1 when you turn them on. playing something else can provoke a different scenario... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
struts;539763 Wrote: I don't but I can make some. It will have to wait until later though as I am on family duties. I don't get any noise between 44.1kHz tracks though, any reason to suspect it would be different with 48kHz? Well, in my system I have problems with 48kHz (pop's and clicks and loosing sync), but 44.1 works ok. -- paalj paalj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37761 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
paalj;539765 Wrote: Well, in my system I have problems with 48kHz (pop's and clicks and loosing sync), but 44.1 works ok. Just been able to try this on some 24/96 tracks which I couldn't do earlier as I was in the middle of a library scan. When skipping between tracks the s-lock and sampling frequency indicator LEDs do go out for a short amount of time (in fact at one point the 44.1kHz LED even lit briefly when skipping between two 96kHz tracks which supports Phil's point above) and I get a soft click. Not what I would call 'digital noise' exactly but certainly not silent. I hadn't noticed this before, I guess I have never skipped between track on a hi rez recording! So unless you specifically want me to I won't bother making 48kHz files since this seems to be reproducible with 24/96. -- struts struts's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14057 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
Phil Leigh;539807 Wrote: Brilliant - that nails it as a bug. My GUESS is that during the inter-track skip, the Touch reverts to 44.1. Some dacs may not be able to handle this as well as others... Great. Let me know if there is anything else you would like me to test. Happy to help. -- struts struts's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14057 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] digital silence between tracks?
struts;539820 Wrote: Great. Let me know if there is anything else you would like me to test. Happy to help. Thanks Struts - you've been a great help. I've just been testing this on my system but of course I have a TACT (with ASRC) betwixt Touch and DAC so the DAC never loses lock from the TACT. I can flick around between any tracks without issue. Now what we need is someone from Logitech to comment on why the Touch is behaving differently to the other devices... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77849 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
