Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Disabling WLAN on Touch
Phil Leigh;620359 Wrote: there are plenty of DAC's out there that aren't ruffled by such things... Shoot... ...let us know what DACs comes in mind. We're listening! The supposedly best I had in for testing so far was an Antelope Zodiac Gold (3k5) Thx God you 'measured (Case 4) ' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=610116postcount=329) the WLAN/LAN impact on the Touch! Now the battlefield can be moved on toward the DAC side. Or... ...Buy a Transporter. ;) Or. Buy a 12$ cable. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86201 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Disabling WLAN on Touch
or ... just buy a Linn DS player. no WLAN to disable no displays to disable no USB s/pdif or toslink before the DAC -- JezA JezA's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21219 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86201 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Disabling WLAN on Touch
JezA;620451 Wrote: or ... just buy a Linn DS player. no WLAN to disable no displays to disable no USB s/pdif or toslink before the DAC or run Soundcheck's toolbox and save $3,000. -- Howard Turkster Howard Turkster's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39563 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86201 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Disabling WLAN on Touch
Howard Turkster;620501 Wrote: or run Soundcheck's toolbox and save $3,000. Or sell your gear and join the freedom fighters against Ghadafi. -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86201 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Disabling WLAN on Touch
I've always run my Touch in wireless mode due to the configuration of my Apartment. I've long wondered though whether hard wiring would make a difference to sound quality. So, finally, I splashed out $12 on 20 metres of Cat 6 cable and disabled wi fi in the Touch via Soundcheck's mod. The difference is night and day, I now have a high fidelity system. If you're running wi fi on the Touch, give hard wiring a try, along with Soundchecks's mods. My next problem is what to do with the 20 metres of Cat 6 running from my Office through the middle of my Apartment. Thanks again Soundcheck for your excellent site. -- goopie goopie's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=16161 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86201 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Disabling WLAN on Touch
Soundcheck - there is no need to use USB to connect a Benchmark DAC to a Touch, so I'm not sure how relevant your remarks are. -- JezA JezA's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21219 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86201 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Disabling WLAN on Touch
JezA;620212 Wrote: Soundcheck - there is no need to use USB to connect a Benchmark DAC to a Touch +1 I use S/PDIF to connect a TOUCH to a Benchmark DAC -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86201 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Disabling WLAN on Touch
If wlan on the Touch makes your DAC sound bad it's time for a better DAC... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86201 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Disabling WLAN on Touch
Phil Leigh;620265 Wrote: If wlan on the Touch makes your DAC sound bad it's time for a better DAC... Correct. Dustbin time. -- JezA JezA's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21219 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86201 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Disabling WLAN on Touch
magiccarpetride;620312 Wrote: So if switching from WLAN to LAN makes the DAC not sound bad, your advice is to nevertheless ignore that and go and spend more money on a better DAC regardless? You're such a do-gooder, man... Thanks for the advice, I had no idea that fire is hot! I forgot that irony doesn't travel very well... Seriously, if your DAC is perturbed by wlan on the transport, or by that awful PSU - or a host of other things!, there are plenty of DAC's out there that aren't ruffled by such things... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86201 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Disabling WLAN on Touch
Phil Leigh;616878 Wrote: I didn't say that! For sure there will be groupings of cases. For example, users of the Benchmark DAC's report that these DAC's appear relatively impervious to what's happening around them, whereas some other DAC's appear much more sensitive to Transports, cables etc... The Benchmark (which is using Centrance USB code, same as Empirical Audio and some others) is not immune. Not any of the other asynch USB DACs is immune either. (Check out AA. All DACs running Wavelength Streamlength asynch USB show differences on slightest PC optimizations with e.g. Amarra, Pure Music) Galvanical isolations, which is IMO a must, you won't find on many USB dacs. There's only one USB DAC I know which has a galvanical isolation in place, the Ayre QB-9. SPDIF transformer based galvanic isolations are more widely spread. To be honest I havn't found any direct path DAC yet, which is immune against incoming distortions from a transport such as PC or Touch or whatever. It needs a very intelligent jitter supression on the DAC side to cope with an incoming asynchrounus stream. If you go to a dealer or to a show to listen to a fancy DAC. If you see the guy in charge is firing up Amarra or Pure music or similar audiophile players to make the DAC sound best. You know this shown DAC is not immune. A different thing is if you feed e.g. complex DSPs, like you do ( or did) for e.g. running convolution, crossovers asf. Those innstallations manage to decouple the incoming stream almost 100% and suppress pretty much all distortions. In this case the audio transfer can be regarded as data transfer. It's no longer a realtime audio-stream. Another thing is if you use a good reclocker. E.g. an Appogee Big Ben in the line decouples quite well from the source. Again. Most asynchronous solutions, where the DAC clock is not the same as the source/transport clock do have issues. Of course some DACs can cope better with those distortions then others. As soon as I find an affordable DAC which is 100% immune against source originated distortions I can and will forget about my little Touch Toolbox project. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86201 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Disabling WLAN on Touch
magiccarpetride;616810 Wrote: 'each case is completely different from any other case' I didn't say that! For sure there will be groupings of cases. For example, users of the Benchmark DAC's report that these DAC's appear relatively impervious to what's happening around them, whereas some other DAC's appear much more sensitive to Transports, cables etc... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF x-dacv3/x-10/x-psu(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86201 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Disabling WLAN on Touch
G'day -- Just a quick one.. I guess if you use the USB connection on SBT to play your music library you remove yourself from all the potential network issues; Viz -- wireless V wired, CAT6, RF noise, etc?-- But buffering will always be present yes Fez -- The Fez The Fez's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=44778 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86201 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Disabling WLAN on Touch
The Fez;616921 Wrote: G'day -- Just a quick one.. I guess if you use the USB connection on SBT to play your music library you remove yourself from all the potential network issues; Viz -- wireless V wired, CAT6, RF noise, etc?-- But buffering will always be present yes Fez Not sure what you mean by buffering, but there is still the issue of airborne RFI and mains-borne RFI to consider... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF x-dacv3/x-10/x-psu(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86201 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Disabling WLAN on Touch
magiccarpetride;616726 Wrote: ...My only explanation is that the wireless component inside the Touch must be quite noisy, thus polluting the digital signal somehow. Because the differences during the listening tests are undeniable. They may be undeniable to you, however... There is an equally plausible explanation, which also explains why not everyone will hear any difference at all... Put simply, it all depends on the design of your DAC and how easily (or not) it can recover the clock from s/pdif and how well isolated the DAC clock (and its PSU) and analogue section of the DAC are from the s/pdif ground plane, the mains earth and radiated RFI. DAC's vary widely in these respects. Thus by all means try such things, but be very wary of generalisations. Life just isn't that simple (sadly). If it works for you, great. Others may not have the same problem to begin with, or it may not be solved for them in the same way it is for you. Peace. Phil -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF x-dacv3/x-10/x-psu(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86201 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Disabling WLAN on Touch
Phil Leigh;616732 Wrote: They may be undeniable to you, however... There is an equally plausible explanation, which also explains why not everyone will hear any difference at all... Put simply, it all depends on the design of your DAC and how easily (or not) it can recover the clock from s/pdif and how well isolated the DAC clock (and its PSU) and analogue section of the DAC are from the s/pdif ground plane, the mains earth and radiated RFI. DAC's vary widely in these respects. Thus by all means try such things, but be very wary of generalisations. Life just isn't that simple (sadly). If it works for you, great. Others may not have the same problem to begin with, or it may not be solved for them in the same way it is for you. Peace. Phil I've also heard other opinions on this, such as that the wifi receiver inside the Touch may be generating quite a lot of RF noise, so killing it may result in a less frantic digital pathway. Opinions vary, I agree that over-generalizations are dangerous, but at the same time caution against 'each case is completely different from any other case' sentiments. That extreme is also equally stupid as making sweeping generalization. Many cases share many common traits, and it is our obligation to seek out and find and document those, in order to continue our progress without being blindsided. -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86201 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
